Database Users

When do you think the G1 will reach its end of life?

Considering its limited memory, I was wondering when everyone thinks the G1 is likely to reach the end of its usefulness.. especially as android develops and requires better hardware to power it.
Any ideas?

I know for certain this topic has been discussed in this subforum atleast two times. Maybe you could join the discussion in those threads?

I know you weren't looking for an answer like this but I suppose it depends on the actual user of the phone, when I had my LG Vu (I know its not a smart phone) I loved it for about a week and absolutely needed a new phone, while my father has his LG Vu and uses it all the time and doesn't even think about getting a new phone since his does the job.
To me this phone will be good for a year or two before I decide to move further, unless I'm influenced to get a different phone which I probably would be

I'm hoping that Android in develop and improve in such a way that it will optimize the use of the current hardware. Optimize the hardware drivers, improve the coding, etc.
Considering that the Dream, Magic, Hero all have the same CPU, I do hope they make more progress on optimizing it for the CPU.

As long as there's a single dev still doing something for G1, it will not die. And after that it will still take some time.
Just go to the forums of some of the really old devices - they're still active.

Karolis said:
As long as there's a single dev still doing something for G1, it will not die. And after that it will still take some time.
Just go to the forums of some of the really old devices - they're still active.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I still visit the Tmobile Shadows forum on this site and there are still roms being cooked for it.

I change phones almost every year if not 2 times a year....but havent changed my phone since I got the G1 because...and it still impresses friends almost every week....

Karolis said:
As long as there's a single dev still doing something for G1, it will not die. And after that it will still take some time.
Just go to the forums of some of the really old devices - they're still active.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so true. I first found this site when I got an HTC Wizard. When I got it the model had long since been discontinued, but the developers here were still active. With what I got here it managed to put an old phone on par with many new models.
Personally until an android phone comes out with a significantly better processor, screen, camera, and with a physical keyboard, I'm probably not going anywhere.

G1 will die when someone releases a phone with twice the processing power, hardware-accelerated 3D, a decent camera (5+ MP, autofocus, flash) true multitouch screen, and at half the power consumption.

it may never truly die
Just Google "nanoloop" to see how long a cult object can outlive its perceived consumer life cycle. I see the G1 as having great potential for achieving cult status, due in part to its homely chin.

Like those above have said i honestly don't see this ever dying out. This was and is the first Android phone and for the fact i see it always being around being worked on.

The G1 will die:
1. After the iPhone dies
2. After all the devs stop developing <- highly unlikely
3. When T-Mobile makes a huge mistake
Just my two cents.

Cult Status probably not but long lifetime
The G1 in my opinion does not have that much of a cult status potential since today the lifecycle is wa quicker than in 1989. I mean the GB was produced for like 8-10 years! Mine still works and would never sell it or give it away.
I know that I will want a new phone in probably a year (or whenever the next nice android device WITH a hardware keyboard and a better camera + batterylife) will come out. But even then I will keep my G1 as second navigation device? GPS dataloger? Mobile Router? Remote Control?....
there is so much great softwware that works great on the G1 hardware and unless you dont want to run som stupid 3D UI or game on it I dont see a reason to get rid of it.

with all my respect to all those who love their G1: i would like to give my opinion;;;;;
this phone (G1) is a complete crap, it does not worth a penny, and it is a BIG failure for Tmo, Google, and HTC. it is nothing but a piece of sh***. they should have done a lot more development and testing before they released it to the public. they did not give it to us for free,, we paid a lot of $ for it. and it DOES NOT WORK.
sorry for the language but honestly i consider my G1 as the worst purchase i have made in my whole life. it is a FRAUD and is AREADY DEAD.

ajarmeh104 said:
with all my respect to all those who love their G1: i would like to give my opinion;;;;;
this phone (G1) is a complete crap, it does not worth a penny, and it is a BIG failure for Tmo, Google, and HTC. it is nothing but a piece of sh***. they should have done a lot more development and testing before they released it to the public. they did not give it to us for free,, we paid a lot of $ for it. and it DOES NOT WORK.
sorry for the language but honestly i consider my G1 as the worst purchase i have made in my whole life. it is a FRAUD and is AREADY DEAD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." Haha. But on a serious note and I mean no offense by this but if you have so much hatred for the G1 why are you on this forum? Some people pay way more for a phone that does less and is way worse than you believe this phone to be. Granted everyone is looking for different things. Perfect example a co-worker bought a blackberry bold and hated it with a passion, his son however loved it (me I would never consider paying more for what I deem an inferior phone). So it is all personal preference, but I don't see this phone dying anytime soon unless another phone with better specs and a full keyboard comes along.

dear BSDADON and all:
Iam here on this forum trying to find solutions and fixes for things and issues of the G1 that should NEVER have been issues to begin with. example: apps2sd;;;;; how come Tmo and Google sell the phone without this feature and with almost no internal memory????? and what is more funny is that they give you the market app??? where are we expected to install apps????
another example is the email client: they shipped the phone with email that does NOT work with exchange servers,,,,, and even when you find a server that is supported (POP3), then the only way you can empty the trash is to uninstall the application.... WTF ?????? isnt that a FRAUD????
the basic functionality of the G1 is compromised FOR NOTHING..... there are many times when the phone fails to wake up on incoming calls....
all the things that people are looking for here are things that should have been supported by the first release of G1.....

ajarmeh104 said:
dear BSDADON and all:
Iam here on this forum trying to find solutions and fixes for things and issues of the G1 that should NEVER have been issues to begin with. example: apps2sd;;;;; how come Tmo and Google sell the phone without this feature and with almost no internal memory????? and what is more funny is that they give you the market app??? where are we expected to install apps????
another example is the email client: they shipped the phone with email that does NOT work with exchange servers,,,,, and even when you find a server that is supported (POP3), then the only way you can empty the trash is to uninstall the application.... WTF ?????? isnt that a FRAUD????
the basic functionality of the G1 is compromised FOR NOTHING..... there are many times when the phone fails to wake up on incoming calls....
all the things that people are looking for here are things that should have been supported by the first release of G1.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man... you should probably pop a valium or something. It's a phone, not genocide.
- internal memory. This is obviously a weakpoint, but it doesn't affect everyone equally. For example I only keep about a dozen apps installed at any given time. My guess is most users who have hundreds of apps installed are not using them all on a frequent basis.
- exchange email. First, you have to understand that the G1 is targeted firstly as a consumer device. Most consumers do not need exchange mail access. That said, there is nothing keeping Android implementers from adding exchange support if they wish, which is exactly what we're seeing HTC do now on some of their self-branded phones.
- incoming calls. I've never had my phone fail to wake or ring on an incoming call. Perhaps this is a network issue or you have a custom android build installed? Generally speaking the "stock" builds are very responsive to incoming calls. There is a thread in the dev subforum that roughly compares various builds and their incoming call alertness.

ajarmeh104 said:
dear BSDADON and all:
Iam here on this forum trying to find solutions and fixes for things and issues of the G1 that should NEVER have been issues to begin with. example: apps2sd;;;;; how come Tmo and Google sell the phone without this feature and with almost no internal memory????? and what is more funny is that they give you the market app??? where are we expected to install apps????
another example is the email client: they shipped the phone with email that does NOT work with exchange servers,,,,, and even when you find a server that is supported (POP3), then the only way you can empty the trash is to uninstall the application.... WTF ?????? isnt that a FRAUD????
the basic functionality of the G1 is compromised FOR NOTHING..... there are many times when the phone fails to wake up on incoming calls....
all the things that people are looking for here are things that should have been supported by the first release of G1.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad you have so many issues with the G1.
How many apps do you have installed and how many do you actually use? I doubt most people have more than 30-40 apps installed that they used more than a few times. It has enough space for at least that many and probably more.
Not all phone support Exchange, in fact most don't. Even iphone didn't for a long time. Android does have the ability to use Exchange now if you have the right official or custom build. It is not 'fraud' when a feature is missing or overlooked. If you go overboard with how you describe issues, people won't take you seriously.
I have not read any issues with G1 being unresponsive on receiving calls on the official build. If you are having unresponsive functionality while using a custom build or any app that may be conflicting, then it is not a problem with the G1. I've experience slowness when I used the overclock app, but I had underclocked it to 128mhz. That was MY fault. If you are having problems with the official G1 build with no apps installed, than maybe it's time to talk to T-Mobile and get it replaced since nobody else has that problem.
In an ideal world, everything would be perfect on the first release. It's almost never that way. There are very few exception to this, but they are probably never always perfect either. I suppose NASA or Dept of Defense could get the first release to be perfect.. but DoD has over $700,000,000,000 budget. Also the phone would cost more than what most people would want to pay.. also it would take a long time to before it got released..

For me, as long as the is still workin its useful until something else catches my eyes.. but nothin haven't yet and there so much u can do with the g1.
EDIT- yea if there is atleast one dev still grindin the g1 will never die

I'm not going to answer certain inane rantings (see above), I only feel the need to say the following.
Look at the forum for the HTC wizard. It has seen very little traffic since 2008. On the other hand, I would advise people to keep their wizards rather than buy a newer phone, because of what we do here on XDA. It's making the software do incredible things that makes hacking what it is. It's what makes open source glorious. Personally, continually buying new things just because the hardware is better only supports the standard microsoft/apple/ibm/everyotherestablishedcompany method of releasing new hardware with primitive software implementations. Just look at what we've done with the dream so far:
Apps to SD
Media to SD
Root Access
Full CPU Scaling
VPN Access
Themes
Scripts
Volume Hacks
Faster Charge Times
Better WIFI and Bluetooth system integration....
the list goes on. And as long as the Dream remains the easiest android phone to root, it's going to keep extending.

General rant

I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?

setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always just load a rom that is stable and one you like and leave it. Your not forced to always update. If you always want the newest and greatest then you have to update, we all knew that when we started doing this.

The unfortunate thing is that ALL roms i've tried have problems with them - things that dont work, bugs introduced when things are changed. And the devs fix some of the probs in the next release, but then new bugs become apparent.
I know this is the nature of development, and I understand this is only way devs can work to push things forward. But it means living with bugs or upgrading the rom to the next version.
I've not found a rom that has the stabililty/simplicity i really want to just use the phone, and not have to mess around with it all the time, or get annoyed because it wont keep programs like the browser running when you change to do something else, or put up with not being able to rely on the phone for its core function of making and receiving calls and lagging left right & centre.
I think that Android's true requirements are beyond the Dream's hardware - and much as devs try, they will never get past that fact, they will just find progressively better workarounds which "sort of" do the job.

If I were you I would go with an older build instead of a newer one that still has bugs. I'm still on Cyanogens 3.9.5 and have no problems with it at all, no bugs or nothing and happy with it. There is also old dude's builds that I use to be on a long time ago that was stable with no bugs also. But of course since those are older builds it might be hard to find, but if your wanting to take a step back and go to something stable and no bugs let me know I still got all roms on my pc at home.

I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware

supremeteam:
I think you're right - I've just restored my cyanogen 3.6.5 backup and I forgot how decent it is, using swapper it does respond quite well. To be fair, the only reason i upgraded past 3.6.5 was because I was always having a problem with the HTC_IME - it would never stay on "phone keypad" rather than "qwerty", and it also interfered with my physical keyboard by turning on the "enable prediction for qwerty keyboard" option. Other than that I never had any problems with it. This problem is a BIG annoyance though...

Oh - and the fact that the phone rings (silently) about 3 times before anything is shown on the screen or a ringtone is heard. Forgot about that one...

Also, I'd just like to add that I am in no way bashing cyanogen - i have found his roms to be the best/fastest/most stable out all i have tried, hence why i am using them. I have used a few other roms that were just a joke, with force closes all over the place, and much more serious bugs/errors than i have mentioned here.
Overall, for me, i think cyanogen is the best dev out there, consistently pushing the boundaries of performance, and regularly updating his rom. That much is obvious from the popularity of his roms' threads.

update withdraw
I agree with you that cyanogen is a great devolper but so are jac and drizzy and those other guys that are putting a ton of work into hero, maybe soon we will have a good working rosie but in the mean time I could rant how those are buggy and lag a lot, but even with a cupcake rom you have to break a few eggs to make an olmet and that are the bugs that we are gonna have to live with, truthfully I am addicted like a drug addict to all the constant update from cyan to see what is next to come, just the fact the I have been on 4.02 for a couple days is making me go through update withdraw, I flash a hero rom just for the hell of it just to see the progress, it was on my phone for maybe a whole 10 minutes before I booted my nandroid backup of 4.02

gridlock32404 said:
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do appreciate what you're saying - that i want to have my cake and eat it! I suppose that's true in some respects. I can honestly say that my Dream is the best phone I've ever had, and the efforts the devs make to push the envelope are just amazing! Their knowledge and skills are something special - and to do it all for the love of it (and of course the respect of the community!) is definitely to be applauded.
I do also hope that google devs do read these forums, and incorporate the work into the official roms! I think they should pay the devs on xda, as they clearly do a lot of work that google ought to have done!

I hope that google does donate to these devs because they have done an amazing job with what they have to work with, I just wish I understood programming better and had the patience for it, I think my phone is better than my computer now, wait anything is better the my computer right now since I burned out my power supply. By far this is the best phone I have ever owned and now I am a android lifer because of the devs. When I first got my phone, it was worthless to me before I rooted it, good thing I found xda back when I had my wing so I knew right where to go and by the end of the first day I had it, it was already rooted

If google pays the devs or give them jobs then we will have to wait long time for our update and cool stuff, they need to just donate lots of money to them so they keep hooking us up first at xda and not the general masses all at once, I don't think they could handle the general awesomeness

setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its like you read my mind

Customizing vs. N1

So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks

right now no one knows, there is no custom kernels, custom recovery, custom roms, etc

There are custom roms and you can easily root the device...but it will obviously take some time to reach N1's customization...

I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.

ultra spikey said:
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, plus the Black/Blue color scheme is far better looking to me over stock Android. TouchWiz is not like Sense or previous generations of the skin and that's a good thing.

Ill second that. I am really enjoying my touch wiz interface and I didn't think I would. That being said I miss my app drawer that slid up from the bottom.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I don't know much about flashing to different ROMs yet, but I can give you an overview of the TouchWiz experience from my viewpoint.
Coming from an iPhone, I really like TouchWiz 3.0. And believe me when I tell you: that was their goal with the UI. It screams Apple, in layout and function. But of course, it ultimately feels a bit like an imitation in some areas. I feel like they rushed TouchWiz 3.0 out of the door.
The Clocks and Alarms app is much better than the iPhone's, which is something I was not at all expecting. It's really quite nice. The calendar app is about on par, in terms of layout. The upper hand is that this syncs OTA with Google's cloud services. The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
All things considered, it's a really nice UI for Android.
That said, there are some really basic functions which did not make the transition from stock Android. For example: you cannot fully edit contacts in the 'Contacts' app. You cannot delete them, you cannot add custom ringtones. Coming from the iPhone, where I had meticulously completed the profiles of every contact with an obscene amount of info and custom ringtones, this is annoying.
There are a few 'little things' like that, which really matter to me. And this has kind of soured the experience for me, making me second-guess my decision. To be honest, I'm still sort of on the fence over this of the N1 as my iPhone replacement.
The grey area for me is in Android 3.0's release. Google has stated that they're going to overhaul the UI. The idea is that they want to make it more user-friendly, to make the use of custom skins less prevalent. Well, I'm all for this. Trouble is: will these handset manufacturers adopt it, considering their vested interests in their custom experiences?
Samsung's UI is definitely my favorite out of Sense, MotoBlur and the lot. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't wish for a Nexus One for the security of owning the only unlocked stock device.
Hope that helps...

Give it some time and stock Android will be on the Vibrant. Thats the great thing about Android and Xda.

Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.

The touchscreen is bad on that phone especially when it comes to multitouch. I'm sure you've already seen the videos comparing the two touchpads and the Vibrant's touchscreen is SO accurate... multitouch included.

Jon C said:
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While its a little early to be 100% yet but Android hacking is a lot different than iphone hacking. The iphone is a closed system and you have to wait till its broken open to update. Android is already open when its released. As for OTAs if Cyanogen supports the Vibrant then there is an app to download and install new updates. Typically if you stay with the same developer, like Cyanogen, then you don't have to wipe when there are updates.

After froyo 2.2 all my touch screen problems was gone.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

So untrue after froyo 2.2 those problems was fix the nexus one is a awsome phone.and I believe the same for the vibrant.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Can you do me the world's biggest favor?
Would you make some YouTube videos, showing the multitouch tests of your N1? I so, so, so, would love to own one, but I have zero tolerance for faulty hardware. I've been researching this stuff since the N1 launch, and it's the only thing holding me back from purchasing that device.
'Multitouch Vis Test' is probably the easiest way, but if you can think of others to test with, that would be great.

Jon C said:
The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
.
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I haven't used my iPod Nano 4th Gen in some time, I find that the N1 is handling my music needs just fine. But if I had a nickel for every time album art was hosed on my iPod Nano I would not have a mortgage anymore...

hah2110 said:
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
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First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.

psychoace said:
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
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Why can't CM do his thing?

cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen

blazewit said:
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
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I have yet to see any information confirming any of that. First on his twitter he only seems to be working on the Evo right now. Second I doubt he would work on the Droid x until it's rooted (which most likely will be never). Last I have seen only a small pattern of talk about someone in conversation with Cyanogen about allowing a Galaxy branch of the CM code for use with the Galaxy S. Problem is this doesn't solve the issue of not having source code for a few drivers. This does not even attack the issue of getting the rom onto the phone. So don't hold your breath for any of that.

yea your right it was just one site claiming that cm is working on the vibrant,from what i can tell gothdroid and a bunch of other g1/dream devs are working right now for custom recovery and porting cm6 and froyo asop

Redevelopment of apps now that gingerbread is on the horizon

Hey,
I am NOT a dev, but I would like to know what kind of work work is going to be required now that gingerbread is on the forefront?
For example, VPlayer, doesn't work... it FC... How much work is it going to take to get the program back up and running???
Im just asking because, as much as I hate to admit it, fragmentation (as everyone calls it) is going to start causing issues. I get that google wants to offer the best and the latest and greatest, but if everytime a new API get sent out, and devs' have to rewrite their work, how much time is it going to take to get the proggy back up and running??
Thanks!
Theo

theomajigga said:
I am NOT a dev,
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You should've stop right there.
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

borodin1 said:
You should've stop right there.
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First off, I didn't ask for you to be a ****, if I would have posted this in the dev forum that would have prompted you to respond as such.
borodin1 said:
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
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Thanks for the answer, i guess.
borodin1 said:
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
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Now that that is out of the way, can I ask you HOW you can honestly say that Android isn't fragmented. Seriously ask your self... I LOVE android, I really do, G1-cliq-MT3G-Nexus One-HD2(androided)-MT4G, but I can't even lie about that. There is 9 API levels!! 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0.1, 2.0, 1.6, 1.5, 1.1, 1.0.
NOW I DO UNDERSTAND THAT ALMOST 45% ARE ON 2.2 and 40% ARE ON 2.1.
Ok, so now most apps are going to be working on that 84% of phones running level 7+.
But this ALSO doesn't account for the manufacture API's that are implemented buy some of them, which I KNOW causes some problems. (skype on the Samsung Galaxy Series) just to name one very big one. Skype works on other devices with 2.1, but it doesn't on the Samsung 2.1? as a consumer, I'd ask wtf, even with their limited knowledge of android.
Fragmentation is defined as is the inability to "write once and run anywhere". Rovio complained about this. Albeit not directly, but they said that they were having issues with people on some phones, with some versions of software, and that it wasn't going to work across the board.
I hate to admit it but there are certain things that need to be done to insure that Android will not only be the "Mobile OS" but it will also be the demanded one (IMHO):
1. Cut the bull**** manufacture stuff out, make only ONE set of API's, with 0 proprietary API's. Make it stuff that you can get if you want through the Android Market (custom UI's and such).
2. Control the god-damn market, find spammers, find shady devs re-uploading their apps multiple times to get ad dollars.
3. Get everybody on board to updates, require that all devices with X specifications be updated Y months after a source is released. That will get again get everyone on the same API level, and will make all apps compatible (maybe slow).
4. For the love of all holy, USE THE BEST COMPONENTS YOU CAN FIND! AND MAKE IT A STANDARD At least for the primary functions of the phone. For example, the Nexus One (my fave so far) did NOT have a competent touch screen, 2 point, and a BAD 2 point at that, and that is considered to be the new dev phone. Well who the HELL would want to dev for a platform that can only recognize two points (barely) that doesn't always even get them right? I sure as hell wouldn't. Finally I get the MT4G, the FIRST thing i did was test the touch screen, and guess what... It still is sub-par. 4 points, where my friends Galaxy S can do 6 or something. Now you are going to ask me, who uses 6 points idiot? Some games, do, and to top **** off, if you can't recognize 2 points properly, close together, how can some of the basic multi-touch functions work? (google maps on the N1)
I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm realistic. A mobile platform can't win like this.
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~damithch/df/device-fragmentation.htm

[Q] Why do we need devs? [Discussion]

Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.

The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.

There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium

maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
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I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?

Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium

How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk

It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.

The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.

The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.

I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.

Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app

Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".

Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig

I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.

The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.

Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium