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Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
I noticed that too, then again...most of the nexus ROMs out are near perfect...and don't require as much hackery as the G1 Roms did...I dunno whatsup with any ports as of yet, but I'm sure things will pick up.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
most of the nexus ROMs out are near perfect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly it. The fact that there aren't constant updates to ROMs is a success I think...it means nothing is horridly broken. This is the first phone I've had in a long time, that I've been so satisfied with, I'm not flashing a new ROM every other day.
We have the latest version of android out there that is accessible by the public or the ROM devs (that they can release).
We aren't trying to backport features because of the above.
The only real (I say real in a non "thanks bro" way) ROM porter we have is without internet (I assume on vacation).
As stated above, most things already work as they should.
While development is slow compared to the G1, also remember that all of our devs also do work on other devices and don't just devote all their android expertise to just one phone.
There isn't any new material to work with. Until Google releases FroYo or new beta updates we're at a stand still.
If you worked in the software world, you would be seeing this as a good thing
chowdarygm said:
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you go!
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Hope to see some awesome ROMs from you.
Enjoy!
Its a good thing because there are no major bugs in existing ROMs. They only get updated when google or some dev introduces new features...
This is my first phone which is still running stock ROM. With all my earlier devices...something always seemed broken or felt like it lacked something.
When I had Touch.. Touchflo was launched by HTC and all the ROM development was diverted to getting Touchflo on Touch. And with lack of enough RAM, there were always choices to be made on what you want and hence many ROMS
Then I got Diamond. It was good, but again had less RAM than Touch Pro. Again race was to get Touch Pro features in Diamond and again choices had to be made to cramp up things in the limited storage.
Then I got Touch Pro... and within few months, Diamond II and Touch Pro II was launched. Cooks started scrambling to get new touchflo 3d on Diamond and Touch Pro.
Then I got Diamond II, and sure enough HTC continued there trend of backstabbing it's customers and launched HD2 with new touchflo aka Sense. Cooks then started to figure out ways to get Sense UI on diamond II.
So you see, there were always things lacking... which forced cooks to figure out things that HTC should have done for us. HTC's first Touch phone was launched along with iPhone... but touch hasn't received any updates for past 2 years.... and Apple is still supporting iPhone (although no OS4 for them).
N1 on the other hand is Google's responsibility. We have the latest OS and features. There is not enough "to-do" things here.
Regardless of that, our Chefs are doing amazing job at giving us the features which AOSP is still finalizing.
With all due respect to you.. I think it is a bit unfair to say that the chefs aren't doing much.
chowdarygm said:
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, we'll get right on it, boss.
It is "slow" because the phone and the ROMs are so damn fast and good already. You can't port 1.5/6 ROMs over because we can't map the buttons without having a 1.5/6 Kernel made for the Nexus One. That is never going to happen.
As well, really? What is slow about the development? We have tons of new apps coming out all the time, the ROMs we have a super fast and super stable. New Kernels every day or two pushing battery life and CPU power even further.
There is tons of development going on. Just because you aren't seeing new ROMs every day doesn't mean a lack of development, it means the ROMs we have are super solid, and development has shifted to making the other aspects better, like apps themselves, and so forth. That is one of the best things about Android, you don't need to flash a new ROM just to get some new apps, like HexiLauncher and what not, all you need to do is install the app, and voila you have a new home/launcher option on your phone.
Or, you don't need to flash a new ROM just to get a new kernel, you can flash the kernel yourself (if you know how to follow simple instructions) that gives you the newest features, and features that mean more to our phones running super fast than a new ROM would mean... actually by ROM I am talking about system.img...
Anyways, if you really think things are just way to slow, then either learn how to do it yourself, make a huge donation to your favorite developer on the basis of them picking up the pace (and by huge, I mean 50k+, so they can quit their day job), or just accept the simple fact that there is a ton of development going on already, you (and many as of late) don't seem to understand enough to realize that kernels and apps are more important, at this point in time, than a ROM update every other day.
LOL another one of these threads curious as to what else can you ask for? All the tweaks that are available and possible for this phone has already been done.
thanks to all those who replied.
i am not blaming any chefs. they are doing a highly respected job and i respect them and their work very much. thanks to all of them
i was just telling that the no.of chefs on this device are very less but maybe the reasons are diff as everyone told
like king personally coz he does experiments like blur and others
personally i like experimenting with diff roms , so only felt little jobless as compared to other devices but happy with almost perfect device.
Now this I would agree with you. The number of ROM devs are a lot less compared to the G1, :-( the phone is fairly new though.. But the ones we have working on the N1 are all great nevertheless .
chowdarygm said:
thanks to all those who replied.
i am not blaming any chefs. they are doing a highly respected job and i respect them and their work very much. thanks to all of them
i was just telling that the no.of chefs on this device are very less but maybe the reasons are diff as everyone told
like king personally coz he does experiments like blur and others
personally i like experimenting with diff roms , so only felt little jobless as compared to other devices but happy with almost perfect device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
re: above post..
hahahaha... "XDA Syndrome"
Seriously though, Modaco has been gone for awhile. Got stuck cuz of the volcano issue... it's been weeks since he has released even an update!
We are a little spoiled with the N1 I think... on top of that with 2.2 coming out shortly I think a bunch of cooks will be kinda waiting for that to come out before they do any more major tweaking.
The main thing I personally am waiting for is a fully working SenseUI on the N1.... I kinda thought it would materialize much quicker once the DESIRE came out.
arkavat said:
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... i think i have the same problem im feenin for another enom rom but as he stated he was on vacation which i can respect cause im going to Miami soon. I have no complaints to the rom development but i'd love to see more themes like motoblur style X10 style i miss my motoblur theme on my magic
[edit] And before your go saying i should make one myself i tried and it was to difficult for me for some reason.
Coming from winmo myself it was a change not having a dozen or more roms to choose from but in reality looking at it objectively most of the roms are either adding something that came in a newer device or more or less a rehash of what was already done in that they didnt do anything new but they did it in a different way. Not that the latter is a bad thing, the improved layouts people came up with greatly eased, speeded up, reduceded the number of clicks, etc. in getting where you wanted to go and I at least was happy to see them coming down the pipe. As an aside when winmo was as youthful as android is now there was a lot less rom activity than what you see now as best as I can recall back.
arkavat said:
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, I had that like 2 weeks ago...kept flashing and flashing and flashing...finally I settled on my highly customized 5.0.5.3, still haven't jumped to 5.0.6 due to wifi issues (and me being suspended until payment next week)
I had 'XDA Syndrome' with my Magic.. I found myself flashing something new (ROM or theme) every week. Now with my Nexus, I have no desire to do so. Like others have already said, I think it's a testament to the stability of the ROMS out there coupled with the fact that 2.1 is already kick ass. We already have the best software on our N1's people. Believe me, once 3.0 or even Froyo comes out we will see an increase in ROM development.
Also, there may not be many devs for the N1 as of now, but many of the absolute best ones have a Nexus so I'm not worried about future development.
Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk
It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Since I don't think I can re-phrase myself in a better way, I'll just quote myself from a different topic:
CrisR82 said:
The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that the problem is the ROM devs themselves - seems like most rush ahead and as soon as a new Android version pops out - scrap bug-fixing what they made so you can have a fully stable version and move straight to a new one, bringing all the old bugs along with a ton of new ones.
I have to be honest, after some replies and PMs I decided to use dual-boot and try some other stuff...and I'm convinced the ROMs that can be classified as "stable" are less than 5...total. All others seem to have some type of issue that can screw over a person's daily life in one way or another.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would really like to see what you guys think on the subject: should developers slow down [maybe skip a version] to provide a genuinely stable ROM, or leap ahead for the new version and patch it out to a "usable" degree?
Most ROM developers are pretty much unpaid volunteers.
They should do whatever they want.
If you do the ROM, you get to choose.
It all shakes out one way or another.
^^^^^
Exactly. What a presumptuous thread. Also, why do you even need a 2nd thread to pose this question given your ongoing thread about not dissimilar issues ?
mikereidis said:
Most ROM developers are pretty much unpaid volunteers.
They should do whatever they want.
If you do the ROM, you get to choose.
It all shakes out one way or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already know that...but here's the thing - noone makes a ROM him himself/herself only. Most people make a ROM and share it for others to use, so while the final decision is ALWAYS up to the individual dev, it's still good to know what the community prefers (or at least it would've mattered to me if I was a dev).
If we go with the logic that community opinion doesn't matter at all, we might aswell get rid of all topics that are not bug reporting or guides.
MistahBungle said:
^^^^^
Exactly. What a presumptuous thread. Also, why do you even need a 2nd thread to pose this question given your ongoing thread about not dissimilar issues ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it has little to do with the other thread?
"Share your first experience with custom ROMs" - "Do you think custom ROMs are being made and moved on from too fast?"...see the difference?
AFTER A BIG BANG a STABLE EARTH WAS FORMED.. If u want a pure stable ROM u have to progress. So its better we leave the DEVs work on it. Moreover its free be happy... We are not supposed to judge them what they focus on...
CrisR82 said:
I already know that...but here's the thing - noone makes a ROM him himself/herself only. Most people make a ROM and share it for others to use, so while the final decision is ALWAYS up to the individual dev, it's still good to know what the community prefers (or at least it would've mattered to me if I was a dev).
If we go with the logic that community opinion doesn't matter at all, we might aswell get rid of all topics that are not bug reporting or guides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, sure.
But I don't like the statement that "the problem is the ROM devs". It's criticism, and I think criticism is better directed at parties that are doing it for commercial purposes where I/we are paying customers, such as Google or the phone OEMs, or even CM Inc and MIUI Inc.
For popular phones there are a variety of ROMs. Some are more stable (often stock based) and many are more bleeding edge.
Even Google is more bleeding edge with AOSP on Nexus devices. How many times have we heard of longstanding AOSP Nexus bugs, such as BT issues ?
People slam the phone OEMs and carriers for taking so long to provide updates. Yet those bleeding edge updates, even from Google are often very buggy.
I'm happy to have a variety of choices. Let the chips fall where they may. Unless I've contributed financially to a ROM dev, I'm not generally going to ask him/her to follow any wishes I have about stability or leading edge features. (I've made a few exceptions where a popular ROM has nasty bugs that impact the users of my commercial apps.)
I have 20 phones to do testing and development of my apps. I go into these XDA forums and look for the most popular ROMs. Sometimes I want the latest to do KitKat testing, sometimes I want the most popular, and sometimes I want something stable (often stock based, as it turns out, or based on CM10.2 for example.)
i think first they should progress a bit then make that much part stable and move son
mikereidis said:
OK, sure.
But I don't like the statement that "the problem is the ROM devs". It's criticism, and I think criticism is better directed at parties that are doing it for commercial purposes where I/we are paying customers, such as Google or the phone OEMs, or even CM Inc and MIUI Inc.
For popular phones there are a variety of ROMs. Some are more stable (often stock based) and many are more bleeding edge.
Even Google is more bleeding edge with AOSP on Nexus devices. How many times have we heard of longstanding AOSP Nexus bugs, such as BT issues ?
People slam the phone OEMs and carriers for taking so long to provide updates. Yet those bleeding edge updates, even from Google are often very buggy.
I'm happy to have a variety of choices. Let the chips fall where they may. Unless I've contributed financially to a ROM dev, I'm not generally going to ask him/her to follow any wishes I have about stability or leading edge features. (I've made a few exceptions where a popular ROM has nasty bugs that impact the users of my commercial apps.)
I have 20 phones to do testing and development of my apps. I go into these XDA forums and look for the most popular ROMs. Sometimes I want the latest to do KitKat testing, sometimes I want the most popular, and sometimes I want something stable (often stock based, as it turns out, or based on CM10.2 for example.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people are misinterpreting my words...I'm not saying devs are terrible, bad at their work or anything like that, I'm sharing a thought on why I think most ROMs are not stable enough for everyday use and made a poll to see if others think this too, or simply put "a topic where people can show preference", I never once said "you should listen to me" or "do it how I say because it's better". While I personally don't have any use for custom ROMs in my daily life, I'm always happy to see more and more people making ROMs, stable or not.
However, I will say one thing and back it up forever - "it's not commercial" is not a valid reason not to criticize something. Any forum or work (coding, art etc.) is fully subject to criticism. So to people telling me "you cant criticize developers because they do it for free" - yes I can (not to mention it's my real life job)...it's called "having a point of view", if you agree or don't agree - that's up to you.
In short - this is a topic to see points of view on this, NOT to force anyone into changing his/her way of work. So stop treating it like one. It's how forums work - you open a topic to discus something.
P.S. yeah, now after re-reading it, I might've picked wrong words when I said "the problem are the devs"..."problem" in particular doesn't seem like an appropriate word for it...I apologize if I offended any dev with it.
Devs should continue to do whatever the hell they want to do however the hell they want to do it & ignore people like you.
Opinions & arseholes.
In my opinion, in order for rom makers to gain loyal users, they should prioritize stability while making progresses.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
I also prefer stability over features.
@CrisR82 +1 for posts.
Which ROM You now using?
And with which you feel most satisfied?
dinos3 said:
@CrisR82 +1 for posts.
Which ROM You now using?
And with which you feel most satisfied?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the Samsung stock ROM (Spain region) since my job requires me to do so, but I really like MIUI for its awesome stability and customization (though I have a feeling they'll never update the S2 to 4.2 or higher)...but I also like CyanogenMod 10.1 (the stable build) for the slight performance increase (and I would've probably kept it if it wasn't for the unfixable MHL and other Samsung closed source things that don't work).
I'm also keeping an eye on Omni and I plan to give it another try once it reaches a more stable stage since it fixes some graphics issues on the S2 GT-i9100.
CrisR82 said:
I'm using the Samsung stock ROM (Spain region) since my job requires me to do so, but I really like MIUI for its awesome stability and customization (though I have a feeling they'll never update the S2 to 4.2 or higher)...but I also like CyanogenMod 10.1 (the stable build) for the slight performance increase (and I would've probably kept it if it wasn't for the unfixable MHL and other Samsung closed source things that don't work).
I'm also keeping an eye on Omni and I plan to give it another try once it reaches a more stable stage since it fixes some graphics issues on the S2 GT-i9100.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice...
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2562055 4.4.2 ROM?
dinos3 said:
Nice...
This http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2562055 4.4.2 ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's the Omni one I used
CrisR82 said:
Yes, that's the Omni one I used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you try it, let impressions. I can't even find a rom that suits me...
dinos3 said:
If you try it, let impressions. I can't even find a rom that suits me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already have and I posted my thoughts on it here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2580635
dinos3 said:
If you try it, let impressions. I can't even find a rom that suits me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can try slimsaber 4.4.2 by FJ. good battery,stable for me and ART working on all my apps.:good:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.
Let's be honest to ourselves here guys, out beloved Moto X Style was officially released in September which means this phone has now been out for at least 3 months and while all the effort that has since been put in this devices by key developers and people from day 1 up till now is very much appreciated and will continue to be appreciated, the development of this device compared to most flagships has been slow motion.
I am just trying to understand what the hell went wrong with this phone that made it end up with such super slow motion development, as when I originally bought the device I was thinking this phone would be at least in the top 20 most active phones on XDA development wise.
It had so much going for it, easy root, easy unlockable bootloader, a pretty much almost complete stock version of android, kernel sources released and motorolas good track record of updating their flagship phones in a timely manner and good hardware to accompany the great bloatware free stock software and a cheap price compared to some other flagships from other companies such as Samsung and Sony
With all this in mind I thought developers would flock to this device and we would have a massive development forum with loads of options between custom roms, mods, themes and other tweaks etc
But this is far from the case and I know the Nexus 6P being released probably had something to do with it, Still this should have been at least in top 20
At first I thought when Android 6.0 MM will be released development will increase then we needed the kernel sources as that was apparently not enough, then we had kernel sources but apart from 1 or 2 roms showing up being in alpha stages nothings changed too much.
This is such a disappointment to say the least.
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
djsynth said:
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
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I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
When i had the one plus one there were so many roms that was a brain storm... I prefer some and reliable roms than a plethora where you get confused!!!
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
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4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
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IMO you hit the nail on the head. I love this phone. I had the MXPE 2014 as well, was not a fan. Also owned the original, Loved it.
This MXPE has been great in imo, the lack of development has not been disappointing to me. The stock rom is really pretty good, there are minor tweaks that can be done but most can do these on their own.
I used to be a flash-aholic, but like @GretaLewd has stated...custom roms tend to break things. I'm more in favor of kernel development. But how many different kernels can you have? One way or another they'll be the same.
I also own a Nexus 6P, but my MXPE is my go to device.
I see users complaining about this phone constantly, I really don't think it matters what phone you put in the hands of those users...they would still find fault and complain.
Motorola and Lenovo did good by this device, I just hope they keep up with incrementals for a while.
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Good thread. Would love to hear more thoughts
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Ordered the device today. Hope slow development doesn't disappoint me on this device, as others have stated...
I have been using this device for 2 months now. I am happy with it an didn't face a single issue. I can do a little bit tweaking myself using Xposed.
So far the slow development doesn't bother me.
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
chrisund123 said:
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
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That's a good way to approach Android phones I suppose but I believe
it's still nice to buy a phone that's great out of the box and good development wise, usually flagships tend to have good development and then the mid range and low end phones tend to get smaller developments but I guess there's an exception to everything.
patt2k said:
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
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I doubt that's the reason since 64 Bit has been the standard since Lollipop and pretty much all the flagships have a 64bit cpu since the beggining of 2015 but that doesn't stop other development forums from flourishing.
GretaLewd said:
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
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Thank you for your break down on your thoughts of the subject and I must admit you've mention some very valid points here especially Point 1,2 and 5 but I think out of all of these its Point 1 and 2 that are the most significant, I suppose Motorola have a really small market share explains the lack of adoption between developers when comparing to some of the more prominent manufacturers such as samsung.
and The Android Stock OS has improved significantly within the past couple of years adding some new features that previously people had to root their phones to acomplish such as full app permission controls and backing up app data which google does for you now.
You need to follow development before buying a device these days. i.e. always wait at least 1-2 months. If you follow the development forums you would get an idea if developers are interested in said device or not. I for one, bought it right after I found out that AICP (CM12) rom was being developed. I was interested in running CM13 instead of other AOSP variations. And before I got the device the first (almost daily driver) builds were already uploaded.
Once cm is solid quite a few roms will pop up. Won't be long now.
Official MM has only been out for our phone for a little over a month. give it some time it may pick up. either way it's still an awesome phone out the box... and as stated above, once CM13 is stable im sure we'll see some of the other custom ROMs that are based off it.
GretaLewd said:
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
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This is a great point, but I'd like to add that this is especially applicable to our MXPE. We're really close to stock as it is, so there's little motivation to go ROM to debloat like there is on Samsung, LG, and similar phones. On the flip side, we have a lot of really neat features (active display, approach, accelerator gestures, voice controls) that we would lose if we went ROM.
For me, these two points combine, leaving me with little motivation to ROM my phone, especially since I can could get most of the advantages of CyanogenMod with something like GravityBox, which will allow me to keep the Motorola features (I'm currently unrooted because of the warranty, but I'll be rooted in the future for sure) . Of course, these are my own personal opinions, but I suspect that they reflect at least some of the mindset of this community.
I agree with others, that custom roms are often more trouble than they're worth. The only reason to use them these days is if your device isn't going to be updated to the latest version of Android.
Ever since moto introduced 99% stock android + moto display, roms have been entirely unnecessary for me. I used to rom my phones to gain greater flexibility + customizability. Now that I have stock android + Xposed, I doubt I will ever flash another custom rom again.
I'm still waiting for custom super roms that will make this device best in the market. Why can we have a rom with 1080p display, tweak kernel with better control for heating issue for overall battery life and speed?
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The biggest issue is that developers don't support devices they don't own. With the launch of the nexus 6 (not the 6p) most developers got it and had no need to update to a y newer devices.
Also to the comment that all flag ships are 64 bit this is not the case. If you look the most popular devices as far as developers are concerned are non 64 bit.
Also as android matures you will see less and less roms. As it will be come harder. There are very few real development teams. Most are just kitchen sink roms. A base with tons of cherry picks and a new name. Nothing even worth looking at twice. But more developers are closing up the source of their projects because of these types of roms.
To be honest most users have no point in flashing roms. Only those that like the development side of it will continue to mod roms and flash things.