Database Users

[Benchmark] Sprint 2.20.651.1 Based Roms

A common thing that I read on the forums is how much faster one rom is over another. Someone will claim that their rom runs much faster than others or just users will say that this one is better than another. One of my very first contributions to XDA was benchmarking every rom that was available for the HTC Mogul at that time. I decided to do the same thing for all HTC Hero roms based on the Sprint 2.20.651.1 leak. This consists of: DamagedCake 1.2b, DamageControl v2.05, DarchVanilla v2.1, Fresh Rom 2.0d, RegawMOD v2.0.2p, and untouched Stock.
Now first things first I have a statement to make. I chose to do this because I saw some people bullying others on the forums for making their own roms (I'm looking at you Regaw). I set out to run these tests to prove that every single rom based on this build would benchmark very close to the same. This means that when it boils down to it, there is basically no merit in saying that one rom is faster than another. It is simply a matter of needing to pick which one has the options already in it that you prefer. The modifications that we do to these roms will NOT dramatically speed up the core functions of the phone. It would require kernel development to actually make a real difference in the speed. Yes we can possibly make things run a little smoother and add features, but when it comes down to it, they will all be the same speed. Let me try and make my point here because I'm rambling.... I have been making roms for the Hero since November and have come to expect other people to work off of my work. It's exactly how this stuff works and is exactly what we are doing to HTC. But people typically give credit where credit is due. Then you get some people that like to go around bashing people for making a rom, yet steal work from other people without as much as a thanks. Funny again that I am talking about Regaw. You may notice that he released a patch for his rom 2.0.2p with no release notes at all as to what it fixes other than a vague mention of wifi tether. So what's in this rom?
A copy of estrongs file explorer, straight from fresh rom. Not my app at all, but still something that I have been including in fresh forever.
A copy of AutoKiller, straight from fresh rom. Again, not my app but something that has only been in fresh rom
A copy of the config file for the new XDA keyboard included in fresh rom with English and Spanish being the only languages enabled... taken straight from fresh rom
An "sdcard" folder containing above mentioned config file, taken straight from fresh rom so that it matched the line taken from the update-script.
The fix I used to make all apps show up in the market in build.prop. This fix doesn't belong to me but the way I entered it shows it was likely copy/pasted from fresh rom.
That is the entirety of the patch. He also uses my ported Espresso artwork, but that has been taken by so many roms without credit that I gave up on that. Look... I don't have a problem with regaw. And I'm really not trying to bash. My whole point of this was that every single person is entitled to make every rom that they want. So when he goes and gives someone crap for making their own rom... it really bothered me. Coincidentally, when I expected every single rom to perform about the same, his rom performed the worst on both benchmarks.
Sorry for the rant. None of this is related to the benchmarking. So let me get down to the details. Just like a dyno on a car, benchmarking is not a real world test. While the tests were consistent and what they show holds merit, I'm not saying that it doesn't mean another rom can't run smoother. But my point here was to prove that no rom is actually dramatically faster than another.
My method:
Factory wipe
Flash rom
Boot phone up and install Benchmark Pi and Neocore. Leave phone plugged in to usb and enable "stay awake while charging"
Reboot and allow phone to boot up entirely (waited for activity to stop in debugger)
Run Benchmark Pi 3 times and take the average of all 3
Reboot and allow phone to boot up entirely (waited for activity to stop in debugger)
Run Neocore 3 times (with the sound disabled) and take the average of all 3 (the only exception here was on DamagedCake. While running Neocore's 3 tests there was 1 test that was significantly lower than the other 2. I considered it a fluke and discarded it's result. I then ran it a 4th time and used that instead.)
And now I present to you the results. The "winning" rom is highlighted in red. But again, my goal was to prove that basically every rom is just about the same. Note that Benchmark Pi specifically only tests the processor where as neocore tests a lot more.
{
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
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"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Well there you have it. Hopefully this ends the "this rom is faster than this rom" debate, and also makes some people realize that they were acting a bit rude. Pick the rom that is customized the way you like it. Or at least close. Don't like any? Then make your own!! The more the merrier! And if you use someone's work, make sure you give them credit!
Excel file containing all results

Nice...I hate all the my roms faster than yours talk. penis swinging contest.

All I can say is thank you.

actually, i never feel that one ROM is much faster than the other. I though they are the same^^ Differeces exist only in APPs
Am i right?

david279 said:
Nice...I hate all the my roms faster than yours talk. penis swinging contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious, are there any female devs out there?

wow i always said that peoples claims of "this rom is way faster then another " was all opinion and had nothing to do with any fact or true statement. glad u posted this to show others the truth behind others statements of "this is way faster". also on another note this also points at the fact that a lot of others use other peoples work and fail to give credit where credit is due. the sad part is when someone bashes another for doing it. then turns around and an hour later does it himself. i hope this is the "end all, kill all" of these two issues on the forum. these are the things that have driven a few great devs away from our forum and are convincing others to leave also. were a community and we need to work together and give credit where credit is due.

toastcfh said:
wow i always said that peoples claims of "this rom is way faster then another " was all opinion and had nothing to do with any fact or true statement. glad u posted this to show others the truth behind others statements of "this is way faster". also on another note this also points at the fact that a lot of others use other peoples work and fail to give credit where credit is due. the sad part is when someone bashes another for doing it. then turns around and an hour later does it himself. i hope this is the "end all, kill all" of these two issues on the forum. these are the things that have driven a few great devs away from our forum and are convincing others to leave also. were a community and we need to work together and give credit where credit is due.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said

Thanks for this

i'm glad you posted this, not only so we could see the actual results, but more because of the 'rant' part. all this bashing and whatnot... i don't even really wanna come on xda anymore. recently, i don't even use any of the ROMs... just vanilla aosp

Nice job fresh. thank you for all your hard work!
As a developer who doesn't have time to play with this stuff I really appreciate all that the developers on xda has done for this group of geeks.
I take what is available and remove what I don't want, but that wouldn't be possible with out you guys!
Stop hatin', people! If these roms don't work the way you want, make your own or go back to stock, don't sit there and complain.

Someone's got a grudge.

As soon as Fresh came out with the latest, I switched. Everything worked right off the bat. Kind of boring really!

May i suggest you add linpack to your benchmarking list. It'll show that every rom will average around 2.4 mflops without JIT, which in turn will ultimately prove that every rom is indeed the same in performance
And thanks for making this thread. it should be stickied so newbies will stop asking "which rom is better" and questions similar to that.

This is great cuz i been wonderin bout that and been readin lil remarks here and there

Funny, I was just thinking about this earlier today... Thanks Flipz... You're very well respected here on xda, and this had to be said by someone.

Yet another reason why I'm not going to release roms for the hero. Too many pissing matches and too much duplication. It's all HTC and Googles code in there. Unless your putting out AOSP with custom kernels. Sense is Sense no matter what color you change the dialer or the look of rosie or how much you optipng or zipalign. I'd like to see a combined effort to get AOSP eclair running 100%. There are some great devs here but a little too much ego going on.

To everyone I offended, specifically blankd3ckskat3r and flipz,
I sincerely apologize for everything I said that was wrong and hurtful to the other great roms/makers. My rom was the worst out of all of them, so I shouldn't even had said anything. I never meant to hurt anyone, really I came here with great intentions. For the first time ever, I found somewhere where I was respected, liked, sought out for for help. I never had a place, even in real life, where that actually was true, due to me being an easy target. I realize now looking back that I should have never let myself say any of those things I did.
I should not have posted that post on blankd3ckskat3's thread. I wrote that originally for it not to come out sounding mean, just wondering why another was coming out of the same build, but looking back on it, it's horrible. I don't know what I was thinking. Anyone can do anything they want. It's just been a horrible week for me (personal things) and I was just really frustrated with life in general.
And for the credit. I am sorry flipz. I owe a lot of credit to you which I haven't given. I know it doesn't matter now, because you had to say something first, but I am sorry that I gave nothing. I did use your EStrongs explorer and Autokiller. I would have prefered to use Astro, but it expired 2 days ago. Besides the point. i saw the sdcard folder in your zip and it made me realize that i had forgotten to put that config file in my original 1.3 rom. The Spanish and english ones were the only ones set in the default config file downloaded from xda in the new keyboard zip, but since i had checked out your rom, i used that one since I had deleted the keyboard zip. I did use stuff from your rom like the apks and config file, I'm sorry I didn't say anything to everyone in my thread. I had seen that .fingerprint in DarchLegend, but forgotten where exactly I had seen it, so when I saw it on yours, I decided to implement it then, in the patch that i released. I wish I would have given more credit to you all, I will now, but it's more than likely too late.
I don't want this to go on any more sounding like I'm just justifying my position (which looking over now, it actually does), It's an apology. I am not very good with words (as you can probably tell), and I wish I was right now.
I guess I just wasn't ready for this stuff yet. I tried my best, and I messed up badly, getting everyone mad at me. I'm truly sorry for what I said and did.
-Dan

regaw_leinad said:
To everyone I offended, specifically blankd3ckskat3r and flipz,
I sincerely apologize for everything I said that was wrong and hurtful to the other great roms/makers. My rom was the worst out of all of them, so I shouldn't even had said anything. I never meant to hurt anyone, really I came here with great intentions. For the first time ever, I found somewhere where I was respected, liked, sought out for for help. I never had a place, even in real life, where that actually was true, due to me being an easy target. I realize now looking back that I should have never let myself say any of those things I did.
I should not have posted that post on blankd3ckskat3's thread. I wrote that originally for it not to come out sounding mean, just wondering why another was coming out of the same build, but looking back on it, it's horrible. I don't know what I was thinking. Anyone can do anything they want. It's just been a horrible week for me (personal things) and I was just really frustrated with life in general.
And for the credit. I am sorry flipz. I owe a lot of credit to you which I haven't given. I know it doesn't matter now, because you had to say something first, but I am sorry that I gave nothing. I did use your EStrongs explorer and Autokiller. I would have prefered to use Astro, but it expired 2 days ago. Besides the point. i saw the sdcard folder in your zip and it made me realize that i had forgotten to put that config file in my original 1.3 rom. The Spanish and english ones were the only ones set in the default config file downloaded from xda in the new keyboard zip, but since i had checked out your rom, i used that one since I had deleted the keyboard zip. I did use stuff from your rom like the apks and config file, I'm sorry I didn't say anything to everyone in my thread. I had seen that .fingerprint in DarchLegend, but forgotten where exactly I had seen it, so when I saw it on yours, I decided to implement it then, in the patch that i released. I wish I would have given more credit to you all, I will now, but it's more than likely too late.
I don't want this to go on any more sounding like I'm just justifying my position (which looking over now, it actually does), It's an apology. I am not very good with words (as you can probably tell), and I wish I was right now.
I guess I just wasn't ready for this stuff yet. I tried my best, and I messed up badly, getting everyone mad at me. I'm truly sorry for what I said and did.
-Dan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
And in case it wasn't obvious, this thread was going to exist even before those issues. But then while I was working on flashing all the different roms... things came up. If I may offer any assistance, the only real difference in your rom is the status bar monitor thing. I didn't actually look in to it at all, but it's the only explanation I see as to why yours wouldn't perform the same as others.
Stay in the community. Help out. Release roms. We need as much variety as we can get. But give credit where credit is due, respect everyone, and have fun.

regaw... don't beat yourself up... you owned up to it... move on.... i am pretty sure he is just trying to discourage flaming/trolling, and encourage more unity so that we don't lose anymore devs... i hope you will not be discouraged from deving anymore. learn from your mistakes, keep working hard, and move on.

flipzmode said:
Thank you.
And in case it wasn't obvious, this thread was going to exist even before those issues. But then while I was working on flashing all the different roms... things came up. If I may offer any assistance, the only real difference in your rom is the status bar monitor thing. I didn't actually look in to it at all, but it's the only explanation I see as to why yours wouldn't perform the same as others.
Stay in the community. Help out. Release roms. We need as much variety as we can get. But give credit where credit is due, respect everyone, and have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im only qouting the part about the system tray monitor thing. It is most definitly the problem, I had it from an old rom in my ext partion(I didnt notice). I ran a benchmark of my own and I couldnt get any lower then 13650ish. I read your post and then deleted the system tray apk and i just got 12896.
It wasnt running on any of my benchmarks but it went way down once deleted.

[Q] HD2 100% Android?

hey im new to these forums but i was wondering. is it possible to totally remove winmo from the hd2? like flashing it directly to the system not running it off the sd and completely getting rid of winmo altogether

Not yet.. They are still working on unlocking the nand and we still use winMO to load some of the drivers. We will get there eventually. Even so, if you run a lite rom like ChuckyDroidROM you hardly notice WinMO loading.

Please do not clutter the forum with posts like this. This question has been asked countless times. You are just begging to be flamed!

polo735 said:
Please do not clutter the forum with posts like this. This question has been asked countless times. You are just begging to be flamed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please give it a rest mate. People can act without perfection sometimes.
I understand why you flamed him but get real, some people will ask questions without hours of searching, is it that bad? I mean the post will move off the first page fairly quickly if it is that uninteresting.
I actually read it with interest to the question and the answer, so I found it useful.

With the level of success I have had with my HD2 and ANdroid I would say that there are quite a few folks who probrably use Android 100% of the time now. Its certainly far enough along to have surpassed the novelty phase into a viable solution for WinMo replacement.
You WILL have to do the homework and find the build that suits you though.
Good luck.

Neo_XDA said:
Please give it a rest mate. People can act without perfection sometimes.
I understand why you flamed him but get real, some people will ask questions without hours of searching, is it that bad? I mean the post will move off the first page fairly quickly if it is that uninteresting.
I actually read it with interest to the question and the answer, so I found it useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. People need to stop barking at everyone who posts a question which might have been answered somewhere else on the forum. I happen to be fairly active on this forum and read a lot, but I know not everyone has the same level of interest or time. It's not that big of a deal.

I've managed to run Android mattc FroyoSense 1.7 PPP version for 3 days now. Not sure if I want to go back to WM 6.5, but if they port WP 7 I will jump on that for sure!
I found WYSE POCKETCLOUD perfect. In WM I couldn't navigate with the touch, it would emulate a click, so pretty much all the apps I used on WM I have found on Market and most of them free.
Only thing I haven't figured out is the changing of the Wifi's Mac Address from 00:11:22:33:44:55 to the real Mac address. But I am about to start the search, I use Mac filtering on my router and don't really want to open that mac address, you probably would guess why...? Other than that I have found everything to work except turning phone off or rebooting it. In order to reset phone (or turn off) I simply downloaded Terminal Emulator and do a su then a reboot. Works great for me.

poweroutlet said:
Agreed. People need to stop barking at everyone who posts a question which might have been answered somewhere else on the forum. I happen to be fairly active on this forum and read a lot, but I know not everyone has the same level of interest or time. It's not that big of a deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seconded. It makes me really mad when new people get *****ed out over this. We were ALL noobs once, and we wouldn't be as experienced as we are now if some forum grouch had chased us away just for asking a simple question. Makes me wonder how many would-be chefs & devs have been run off by the search nazis. I'm sure that most people do search first, but often don't know the exact terms to search for & therefore don't find the results they're looking for. I know that *I* wouldn't have known to look up "NAND" in reference to this very question until a week or so ago. Lighten up, people.
*steps off soapbox*
That said, its only a matter of time before the chefs come out with a fully flashable android build. In the meantime though, it is entirely possible to use android as your full-time OS. I've been using Shubcraft for over a week now & it's comparable to any native android phone. Like dantheman said, chuckydroid rom is great if you're wanting to do an 99.9% android setup. It's what I've got, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants to do a more 50/50 configuration as chuckydroid is VERY lightweight. It's missing a lot of standard winmo options & its basically just the barebones minimum needed just to startup & boot to android.

I would like to point something out. When you search here on XDA it does a Google search and like pointed out in previous post, you need to do an ADVANCED search (the little
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
icon) because that actually gives you better results. You can even go to a thread or device forum and search within the forum or thread, which would be the appropriate way.

polo735 said:
Please do not clutter the forum with posts like this. This question has been asked countless times. You are just begging to be flamed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you need to take it easy dude...

Hey, I agree we were all noobs once, but this really isn't to hard answer to find, I found it on my first (advanced) search using basic terms such as "android", "flash" and "internal" etc etc (Nope, i didn't even use NAND!). Hell, it only took me a couple more normal searches to find the stuff i needed (again, didn't use NAND!)
the search Nazis can be helpful if you listen to them, and besides, it probably takes longer to write out your new thread OP than wait the thirty seconds to re-search

Alisha said:
And you need to take it easy dude...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To all those "take it easy dude" members
There is a reason for the search function and a reason why the same question over and over again causes such nausea.
Firstly, searching is a fundamantal step in amassing basic knowledge and, as XDA is awash with just that, failing to do it will lead to missguided understanding. And it's a sign of laziness and an affront to those members who have searched and studied hard to get their expertise.
Secondly, it's a turn off for those who would otherwise assist with problems/questions that can't be answered with a simple search.
There is a serious and almost academic ethos to XDA and that is what has made it such a mine of information and also an assembly point for some of the greatest ROM developers that exist.
If XDA breaks down in this regard then we all loose, big time. Some long established members have already jumped ship and althought they continue in their work they have chosen other routes by which to share it.
I see this as a loss, but, I do understand their motives.
A small modicum of understanding this will continue the tradition and it all begins with SEARCH.
Remember this is all free.

I think they should just ban all those people who pick on other ones. This used to be a nice place, stop whining and take your discussion elsewhere. Let XDA stay a friendly community and don't scr-w things up for everyone! My 2 cents. I think we all know what google is now <_< not everyone knows what NAND is.. So let this guy ask his question.
To the question: it might be possible in the (near) future, it's called NAND, but it's not yet available. It's still under development. have a nice day

To be honest with you, I am fairly new to all this Android stuff, taken me a while to get into the different terminology from windows mobile world, I was too afraid to ask a lot of question son here due to being flamed, shame as I have been on this community for ages in the touch HD section.
I would say the HD2 is 100% Android and Windows mobile.
and windows mobile has its hang ups, in fact probably more than the occasional Android ones, its fantastic to be able to have both on one device, correct me if I am wrong but this is the only device to be able to run both yes?

thank for everyone who actually tried to answer my question and also defend my question. and to those who are complaining about me asking my question...I was at work when i posted that and i work two jobs so sorry if i dont got all day to spend on the pc searching. i have two jobs and a family sorry i dont live on the pc like some people here

NAND
truthkillszz said:
hey im new to these forums but i was wondering. is it possible to totally remove winmo from the hd2? like flashing it directly to the system not running it off the sd and completely getting rid of winmo altogether
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the devs here are awesome first off they will pull it off im sure (flashing to NAND) but why would you want just android? i understand wanting to use the sd card as a sd card or even speed but just having android seems like well you should get an android phone. i personally like having the choice winmo does some things very well android does others very well. I enjoy switching at will i would LOVE NAND but i would also like to run both when i want. Is that a possibility if it does get flashed to internal memory can winmo still be used some how when i want or will it be one or the other? i wonder?

Hmmmmm HD2 has only got 512mb Rom.....soooo probably not! I don't know about the UD version, they could get lucky But generally a custom rom takes up around 200mb, so it COULD be possible, although an internal dualboot system would have to be installed in the phone's rom which is not touched by rom formatting....unless it is re-installed after every WinMo and Android rom update. oooo I love my HD2, so many possibilities! No phone's this fun and customisable!

zephr5 said:
Well the devs here are awesome first off they will pull it off im sure (flashing to NAND) but why would you want just android? i understand wanting to use the sd card as a sd card or even speed but just having android seems like well you should get an android phone. i personally like having the choice winmo does some things very well android does others very well. I enjoy switching at will i would LOVE NAND but i would also like to run both when i want. Is that a possibility if it does get flashed to internal memory can winmo still be used some how when i want or will it be one or the other? i wonder?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See i honestly dont like winmo the only reason i got this phone was cuz i got it for an even trade with my mytouch slide on craigs list and this is the only 1ghz snapdragon phone with such a nice screen on tmo besides the nexus one which is ridiculously hard to get over here by me
Elemental_Fire said:
Hmmmmm HD2 has only got 512mb Rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually from what I read there are two versions to the HD2. I know i have the 1024mb rom version tho

I simply don't get why there are so many useless ROMs

the whole development section is bloated with useless ROMs from people that call themselves "developers" and yet all they do is change themes and apps inside the Rom and call it their own, more over they even introduce more bugs to already perfect ROMs made by real devs.
I mean are some people really that stupid and can't remove and install their own app and themes?
LEAVE THE ROOM FOR DEVS. STOP POSTING JUNK ROMS!

kolyan said:
the whole development section is bloated with useless ROMs from people that call themselves "developers" and yet all they do is change themes and apps inside the Rom and call it their own, more over they even introduce more bugs to already perfect ROMs made by real devs.
I mean are some people really that stupid and can't remove and install their own app and themes?
LEAVE THE ROOM FOR DEVS. STOP POSTING JUNK ROMS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think these developers do a great job and have revolutionised Android roms. But I have to say I do agree with you to some degree. I think the fault is not with the Developers (give them credit for trying) but in fact the fault is with the big Fat Cats of the world like Google, HTC, Sony Ericsson etc who so easily could invent a great Android rom if they wanted to. I guess money talks!

kolyan said:
the whole development section is bloated with useless ROMs from people that call themselves "developers" and yet all they do is change themes and apps inside the Rom and call it their own, more over they even introduce more bugs to already perfect ROMs made by real devs.
I mean are some people really that stupid and can't remove and install their own app and themes?
LEAVE THE ROOM FOR DEVS. STOP POSTING JUNK ROMS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree to some extent, with the ROMs which claim to be 'based on Hyperdroid' or 'based on NDT MIUI' but are, in actual fact, just those ROMs with some APKs edited, but if people have built their own ROM from scratch then they have a right to post in the dev section even if they aren't of 'developer' status.

lol...there is like 8-9 different Miui ROMs on first 2 pages.... all of them pretty much the same as original and only 2 are from real devs that actually know what they are doing....extra 6 useless ROMs are just taking space

To make it short, agreed.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

I'm waiting for your Rom. Don't you get it that our phone is simply old and soon unfortunately will be history?
Sent from my Desire HD

mzebrowski13 said:
I'm waiting for your Rom. Don't you get it that our phone is simply old and soon unfortunately will be history?
Sent from my Desire HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but you make no sense...
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

To any moderators:
a great idea would be to add an origional NAND android development (for ROM's built from scratch by true devs) and a separate NAND android development thread for the lighter developers who theme and mod roms. I know the SGSII forums have such an organization and works very well

mzebrowski13 said:
I'm waiting for your Rom. Don't you get it that our phone is simply old and soon unfortunately will be history?
Sent from my Desire HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
old maybe.. history not for a long time
the hd2 is bettor then 99 percent of all the other phones out there
since you seem to think its history
maybe you should sell it to someone that would appreciate it
and move onto somewhere else

seanyuan62 said:
To any moderators:
a great idea would be to add an origional NAND android development (for ROM's built from scratch by true devs) and a separate NAND android development thread for the lighter developers who theme and mod roms. I know the SGSII forums have such an organization and works very well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good idea. I think this would work.

kolyan said:
the whole development section is bloated with useless ROMs from people that call themselves "developers" and yet all they do is change themes and apps inside the Rom and call it their own, more over they even introduce more bugs to already perfect ROMs made by real devs.
I mean are some people really that stupid and can't remove and install their own app and themes?
LEAVE THE ROOM FOR DEVS. STOP POSTING JUNK ROMS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the roads and car Parks where I live get full of teens with custom body kits on their cars.
WHY MUST THEY ALL ALTER THEIR PERFECTLY WORKING CARS? ? CAN'T THEY ALL JUST DRIVE THE SAME CAR!
.
.
The whole point of xda is taking things that already exist and tweaking them, then releasing the results back to the community, where it may or may not get re-tweaked and re released.
The dev section would be almost empty if only original builds were allowed, and we'd all be using one of three or four options,,, ,dull.

Nigeldg said:
Very good idea. I think this would work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, the next problem would be our HD2 section having a million sub-forums lol...

seanyuan62 said:
Of course, the next problem would be our HD2 section having a million sub-forums lol...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahahahahahahahahahaha true.....
All the people out there that they are developing or they are Trying to develop on HD2 have the right to give it a try cause you see...... ANDROID OS its Open-source that means everyone can try it... so who are you to judge the half xda (cause they are not all perfect programmers around here)???
Show me your work and i will respect your words
Always with respect and friendly speaking
Peace all over dudes of XDA!

Dakargr said:
hahahahahahahahahahaha true.....
All the people out there that they are developing or they are Trying to develop on HD2 have the right to give it a try cause you see...... ANDROID OS its Open-source that means everyone can try it... so who are you to judge the half xda (cause they are not all perfect programmers around here)???
Show me your work and i will respect your words
Always with respect and friendly speaking
Peace all over dudes of XDA!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you fully understand, the problem is not in people posting their themed ROMs, it's that these 'ROMs' are cluttering up the development forum, quite a lot of them unnecessarily. Nobody here is saying that these people cannot develop good ROMs, it's just that there should be two sub-forums for ROMs developed from scratch (Original Android Development) and ROMs which have been edited and themed (can't think of a name right now). This would make it much easier to choose a ROM.

Nigeldg said:
I don't think you fully understand, the problem is not in people posting their themed ROMs, it's that these 'ROMs' are cluttering up the development forum, quite a lot of them unnecessarily. Nobody here is saying that these people cannot develop good ROMs, it's just that there should be two sub-forums for ROMs developed from scratch (Original Android Development) and ROMs which have been edited and themed (can't think of a name right now). This would make it much easier to choose a ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:O my mistake then...!!
Hmm then i think i will agree with you for the two sub-forums

Searching for a good ROM on the Development section feels like this :
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"lightbox_share": "Share",
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However, better than nothing, prior to the summer, development was dead...

seanyuan62 said:
To any moderators:
a great idea would be to add an origional NAND android development (for ROM's built from scratch by true devs) and a separate NAND android development thread for the lighter developers who theme and mod roms. I know the SGSII forums have such an organization and works very well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love this idea. I very much like the openness of Android and agree everyone should be able to tailor their Android devices to their own wishes. HOWEVER, the current situation is very much overwhelming.

Nigeldg said:
I don't think you fully understand, the problem is not in people posting their themed ROMs, it's that these 'ROMs' are cluttering up the development forum, quite a lot of them unnecessarily. Nobody here is saying that these people cannot develop good ROMs, it's just that there should be two sub-forums for ROMs developed from scratch (Original Android Development) and ROMs which have been edited and themed (can't think of a name right now). This would make it much easier to choose a ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how are they cluttering up the the dev forum? id rather see more people trying to help and keep the hd2 alive than see it die off due to people saying that their work isnt appreciated.
thats why there is a set naming convention in the dev forum, so you can see from the title what the rom is based on

But how to decide what's original and what's just tweaked? All the cm7 builds for example, are based off a single rom for a different phone, so do they count as original, or tweaked skinned rereleases?

Richy99 said:
how are they cluttering up the the dev forum? id rather see more people trying to help and keep the hd2 alive than see it die off due to people saying that their work isnt appreciated.
thats why there is a set naming convention in the dev forum, so you can see from the title what the rom is based on
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking down the thread titles in the dev sections right now, you cannot argue that there are too many ROMs which are all pretty much the same but with different kernels, or a few tweaks etc. I agree that this is infinitely better than the period before the Summer where there was almost no development, but I don't think that there should be so many of the same thing in the main forum. I agree with seanyuan62, there should be two different NAND development forums.
Also, your point about work not being appreciated isn't true at all, the work is still appreciated just as much, nobody is saying that we don't want those ROMs, just that they should be in a separate forum.
Take, as a good example, Dorimanx's ROM. It is simply Typhoon but skinned and tweaked for better performance from my understanding (APOLOGIES IF I'M WRONG) but is clearly appreciated hugely.
As for the naming thing, it isn't necessarily too clear, all have the Android version, Sense version, date, and whatever else there is in the titles, but it isn't easy to see what each ROM has to it which is unique to that ROM. It is also far too easy to BS in the title (one is advertised as 'the fastest HD2 ROM'.
I think that the 2 sub-forum thing is a much better idea (it could even potentially increase the number of ROMs being created) and hopefully the great devs wouldn't take it the wrong way if it were to be put in place.

Should DEV assign MODDER for their ROM?

Hi Everybody,
Yes, me speaking about true DEVELOPERS in here(which is not make a rom based on other).Should they assign someone(MODDERS) who can make their rom more beautiful a.k.a retheme and place it under the ori one?
What goods in this?
1.to reduce(zero maybe) qtty retheme rom threads in DEV sec cause the modder
finally know & have the right place to share their talent.
2.ppl also know the right place to try any rom & give a feedback to DEV(bugs, etc)in the right thread
3.to reduce gaps between DEV & MODDER if their are working together.
4.thread based other roms also can totaly prohibit cause modder now can placed a rom under DEV wing.
5.to encourage these modders learn to make own rom if they insist to open new thread in DEV sec.
Again,why retheme roms threats not belongs in DEV sec?
People will complains any bugs in a false threads which it should be in ori rom thread.THIS IS NOT HELPING DEVELOPMENT AT ALL...
BTW,this are some suggestion only & forgive me if this will offend somebody cause im sincerely but no good with words

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zmuhammx said:
Hi Everybody,
Yes, me speaking about true DEVELOPERS in here(which is not make a rom based on other).Should they assign someone(MODDERS) who can make their rom more beautiful a.k.a retheme and place it under the ori one?
What goods in this?
1.to reduce(zero maybe) qtty retheme rom threads in DEV sec cause the modder
finally know & have the right place to share their talent.
2.ppl also know the right place to try any rom & give a feedback to DEV(bugs, etc)in the right thread
3.to reduce gaps between DEV & MODDER if their are working together.
4.thread based other roms also can totaly prohibit cause modder now can placed a rom under DEV wing.
5.to encourage these modders learn to make own rom if they insist to open new thread in DEV sec.
Again,why retheme roms threats not belongs in DEV sec?
People will complains any bugs in a false threads which it should be in ori rom thread.THIS IS NOT HELPING DEVELOPMENT AT ALL...
BTW,this are some suggestion only & forgive me if this will offend somebody cause im sincerely but no good with words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially dis-agree.
I dis-agree with the fact that modders should be assigned. Everybody and anybody should be free and distribute their mods (obviously giving credits etc and with permission of the original devs)
I agree with the fact this is not development.
I agree with the fact , that all mods should be placed under the original ROM
I was wondering , how would this concept work , if the modded ROM is based on two or more ROMS ?
I really don't think it is practical enough ? I really don't know...
Edit : B.Jay , I just ROFLed

B.Jay said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol classic
Sent from my X8 using Tapatalk

Mayank77 said:
I partially dis-agree.
I dis-agree with the fact that modders should be assigned. Everybody and anybody should be free and distribute their mods (obviously giving credits etc and with permission of the original devs)
I agree with the fact this is not development.
I agree with the fact , that all mods should be placed under the original ROM
I was wondering , how would this concept work , if the modded ROM is based on two or more ROMS ?
I really don't think it is practical enough ? I really don't know...
Edit : B.Jay , I just ROFLed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for reply,
This sugestion for DEV only & they will decide it.For exp:B.Jay decided no mods for his rom & we must respect that.(ppl doing it anyway even not in here)
For some DEV who would like to see their rom much prettier but dont have time to do it(focus on bugs & their had their real life too)can make announcement in their thread & invite somebody who can.
There is misunderstood in here cause me suggest for RETHEME roms only.Based on two or more roms,porting,works on stock kernel also considered a DEVELOPMENT(me not mention cause they usually came up with "package")& usually have diff bugs.The one im talking is the pure one which is a DEV 100% own it.The main point in this is DEV will know the bugs even if ppl on retheme roms and make space for these modder to share their talent legally in here.We have to admit,ppl would bother to have ICS if the ui is the same as GB,Like it or not beauty is the first impression.
Again,DEV can decide which is best for their roms.Im not pushing anybody in here just to share what I think sincerely.

I kinda understand your point...what you're talking about is a collaboration or a deal between the devs and modders...the only example which pops into my head when i see this thread is like nAa and D_d...nAa develops the roms while D_d designs the themes for the roms i know its not 100% accurate with what you're suggesting, but im just giving the best example i can

Well, to avoid this I always thought that the Dev could UPLOAD THEIR OWN version of their ROM that's modded and themed.
e.g:
GingerDX v30
Original: DOWNLOAD
Sony Style: DOWNLOAD
ICS Style: DOWNLOAD
Sense: Download
Sent from my R800i using xda premium

IrishStuff09 said:
Well, to avoid this I always thought that the Dev could UPLOAD THEIR OWN version of their ROM that's modded and themed.
e.g:
GingerDX v30
Original: DOWNLOAD
Sony Style: DOWNLOAD
ICS Style: DOWNLOAD
Sense: Download
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not bad!!!
the idea is great but developer will have to leave behind private life, family and girlfriend if he wanna do it by yourself! But if all developers have "their own Dark dogs" it may be possible!

Let me make one thing clear....dark dog is a rcognized themer !!! makes his own themes for minicm......soft modders JUST take a theme of achep and sony sekhon and others.....

Rahat34 said:
Let me make one thing clear....dark dog is a rcognized themer !!! makes his own themes for minicm......soft modders JUST take a theme of achep and sony sekhon and others.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!

RohinZaraki said:
I kinda understand your point...what you're talking about is a collaboration or a deal between the devs and modders...the only example which pops into my head when i see this thread is like nAa and D_d...nAa develops the roms while D_d designs the themes for the roms i know its not 100% accurate with what you're suggesting, but im just giving the best example i can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rohin,
since im new in here,me not sure if this kind of tag-team has practicing in here.Only i can see so many retheme roms based on other which is can divine by 2
1.No developement at all-update only a look but bugs still in there.people complain bugs but modder cant do nothing to fixs it.
2. has developement- bugs fixing just because modder actually has knowledge to make own rom but make a easy way by used other or someone just pop up with fixing.
Conclusion is:anything at all should go to ORIGINAL rom thread.All complain,bugs,fixing,thanks,anything belongs to ORIGINAL DEV.
My suggest only for this purpose:
1.modder with or without rom knowledge-they have spot for them & maybe they can learn some with a DEV.Dev also can learn something from these modder.
2.Anything will go to right place(what i saying above)
3.If somebody not happy with idea ORI DEV got all,learn make ur own & retheme anyway u like.
Many great DEV has left us cause feel disappoint of these trend but not given us a childish excuse like"oh! im feeling so tired stick my nose to many my based rom thread for find what wrong with my rom"
Cheers

IrishStuff09 said:
Well, to avoid this I always thought that the Dev could UPLOAD THEIR OWN version of their ROM that's modded and themed.
e.g:
GingerDX v30
Original: DOWNLOAD
Sony Style: DOWNLOAD
ICS Style: DOWNLOAD
Sense: Download
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If dev have time & knowledge, they will.If modder are sincerely enough to help dev & just loved to share their work,i believe there no reason dev will say no

As a recognised themer myself, I can safely say that sometimes TRULY theming a ROM can be just as painful and time-consuming as developing it.
BUT it is not development nonetheless.
Also what is NOT development is picking up init.d scripts from Android General section, packing it in a developers ROM and re-distributing it as a new one under your name.
This discussion can go on and on but I am sure you get the point.
This thread is quite interesting, because I really feel a bit disappointed by all the "ROMs" that flood the Development section, when the amount of real developing is very low.
Let me also say, I am not talking specifically about X8 section, it is a general phenomenon in pretty much all Sony forums.

And who says that the themers aren't devs to?
Its very hard....

What about GPL and Open Source?
Not taking any sides here, just gonna play Devil's Advocate for a bit and see if anyone can answer..
Under GPL, open source code can be used, changed and redistributed WITHOUT the permission of the code creator..
nAa, paul-xxx and all the other devs here have done exactly that.. Taken the GPL code, changed it, and are redistributing it WITHOUT prior consent of the REAL code dev..
Don't you all think it's a bit much then that they require us to seek their permission to change code they didn't even write? Same goes for the kernels.. This is GPL code..
Anyone can compile code, in fact it's really easy.. You don't even have to understand code to compile it.. So remember, porting is not coding, it's compiling..
I wonder how many lines of real code belong to the devs here.. My guess is very little..
Let me know your thoughts on this please devs..
CtrlAltDel.

got your point.. and u can be wright,
but when person x ask permission from person y that can be interpreted as respect person y's earlier work, so its not so bad, isn't it!?

What about GPL and Open Source?
It's actually a violation of GPL. (asking permission to use the code)
You can be prosecuted in a court of law for breaking GPL or trying to change code written under the GPL to another licence..
This is what is happening here and people should be made aware of this..
I would never ask nAa permission to change his kernel for example.. There is no legal requirement to.. In fact, if I ask for his source code, he must supply it whether he likes it or not.. He could face legal implications if he didn't..
I could then redistribute MY kernel anywhere (even charge for it) as long as I supply MY source code to the public.. This is how open source works..
MY FINAL THOUGHT ON THIS..
We should kick ass in the open source world, not kiss ass!
CtrlAltDel

CtrlAltDelIrl said:
MY FINAL THOUGHT ON THIS..
We should kick ass in the open source world, not kiss ass!
CtrlAltDel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree, but this is totally of topic man!

iridaki said:
As a recognised themer myself, I can safely say that sometimes TRULY theming a ROM can be just as painful and time-consuming as developing it.
BUT it is not development nonetheless.
Also what is NOT development is picking up init.d scripts from Android General section, packing it in a developers ROM and re-distributing it as a new one under your name.
This discussion can go on and on but I am sure you get the point.
This thread is quite interesting, because I really feel a bit disappointed by all the "ROMs" that flood the Development section, when the amount of real developing is very low.
Let me also say, I am not talking specifically about X8 section, it is a general phenomenon in pretty much all Sony forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For all due respect,
Me agreed that retheme also need a hard work indeed.in fact typing this also is hard for me& taking 1/2 hrs to finish it
That why me brough up this because me see Retheme also same important as make a rom.me try to see win-win situations in here.
1.A make a thread for his fresh new rom,he/she also would like to see it grow & alive
2.then B came up,open new thread with much beautiful rom based on A's.
3.ppl will definitely go to B thread & left A thread dying.
4.even worse,C came up with rom based on A's or B's
Now u think, are its fair for A since He/She has start it first?
True,make a diff also can called it DEV but are this kind DEV we want?
By hurting other ppl feeling?
So what me suggest is,A make some space for B and C.Ppl will stick to A's thread and it will grow as it should be without hurting anyone.
Meantime,if B or C still not happy with it they should learn to make own rom & do whatever they like.
God bless all.
p/s: Retheme me talking here is make own theme not based on other totherwise,I also can be a modder

Choice, choice and (wait for it) more choice
This is exactly what open source offers us... Choice and plenty of it..
A good programmer doesn't make a good themer - I agree totally..
What one considers visually appealing can look like sh*t to another..
Thankfully we have choice so everyone is a winner..
Everyone here should be able to find the blend of features, performance and looks they desire..
If not, they are free to take any rom / kernel / theme and build their own.. This is one of the freedoms the GPL affords us.. We shouldn't ignore it.. We should relish it..
I agree with the idea of grouping MiniCM, GingerDX roms etc..
It would make finding similar roms much easier and would help bug tracking..
I've yet to see one proper bug report on XDA though..
Have fun,
CtrlAltDel

[GUIDE] How to Flash a Rom and Survive

You are bored stiff waiting for Samsung to release the official Rom. You just can't stand it any longer, and are determined to give one of the custom Rom builds a try. Fine.
I'm writing this to help you to survive this dangerous journey.
Decision Making Time
First off, you have to decide what do you want your future Rom to have. You can choose between two general types of Roms.
Touchwiz based Roms
They are very close to what you have got when you bought your Note. All the Samsung addons are there, including S-Memo, Clock Package etc.
AOSP/AOKP/CM based Roms
All the Sumsung apps are chucked out of here. Sumsung stuff is generally replaced by the similar apps from the Market.
Now, let us say you have reached your decesion about the general type of Rom. What to do next?
Pre-Flashing and Flashing Time
What to do
1. Make rounds through the Development forum, and read what each Rom from your broad choice has to offer. It's the same thing as when buying shoes; you don't purchase the first pair you come across, now do you?
In other words, try to make an informed decision about which particular Rom you want to have.
2. You have chosen, and are eager to download and flash. Hold your horses, though. Do the following:
a) read about the prerequisites. They are typically listed in the 1st post of the thread (OP). Here you will learn what conditions your present situation needs to fulfill prior to flashing.
Sometimes things have to be flashed/implemented before the final flash. Find out about it and do it.
b) read the installation instructions (OP)
c) read the bugs list, just to be sure. Perhaps some features that you desperately need are not yet functional. If that is the case, move to another Rom.
d) read the last 5-10 thread pages. There's always a chance that something new has happened and the Dev didn't yet have the time to update the OP (some bug has been fixed, a new one discovered)
e) download everything you need
f) repeat b)
g) repeat b) once more, just in case
h) flash, following the installation instructions to the letter. The Dev has spent countless hours perfecting your future Rom, and tested, tested, tested every possible scenario. When he says that things have to be done in a certain way, he is always right.
i) reboot once it's done
j) all has gone well, pour yourself a drink
What to do to make sure your flash fails miserably
a) don't read the instructions
b) read the instructions, but cut corners: "WTF, this step is unnecessary, I'll just skip it!"
c) read the instructions, but decide that you know better, and invent a set of your own: "What does he know anyway, I know it can be done my way."
d) don't read the bug list; this is a sure-fire way to become a proud owner of a brand new, functional and fully-rooted Rom that doesn't meet your needs: "Where dafuq is (whatever) feature?"
When you do a), b) or c) get on your merry way to Q & A forum to start your very own
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"plzzzzzzzzz häääälp?!?1!?" thread. Enjoy yourself.
When you do d), off you go to flash another Rom.
SO.DON'T.DO.IT!
Post-Flashing Time (Thread, Here I Come!)
Your flash went well, there's no hiccups, you are rooted and happily playing with your shiny new toy. Excellent.
However, you'll soon want to voice your excited opinions and questions in the Rom thread. Be careful, be very careful; thread jungle is teaming with natives of all kinds. Majority of residents are creatures foraging for information - these are harmless. But - there's always a but - some serious carnivores are also there, make sure not to provoke them, or it'll be your life on the line.
Of course, there's the Dev, but his is a God-like presence and therefore not to be feared; he is a mysterious, aloof creature who doesn't interact much with the Thread Natives, for two principal reasons: 1. too busy developing, and 2. rightfully cannot be bothered to answer the same questions asked time and again. Thread Elders (or Veterans or Mums - those who know their way around and guide and help the foragers) are there to take care of that for him.
What to do
First and foremost, be kind and polite. You badly need Rom-managing information from people who have been running it for ages, and know your Rom inside and out. You'll get nothing if you are demanding or rude.
Before asking a question try to see if it's already been answered.
Do a thread search.
It only takes a minute, and you'll be surprised how much information you'll gather that way. Lots and lots of questions have been asked hundreds of times before. Don't expose yourself to ridicule (or worse) if you ask it for a 101st time.
Before reporting a bug, see if it is already listed in the bug list. Predators get very excited when you do such a report, and ugly things can happen.
Don't ask for ETA. It's pure bad manners. Always remember that the Dev is doing his magic in his own free time and at zero costs to you. Respect that; your update will come when it comes.
Try not to provoke people by asking for things that are NOT supported by the Rom. That just shows that you never bothered to read the basic information in the OP.
Try to learn as much as possible so you can start helping other people. XDA lives by that code.
What to do to get yourself killed or worse
1. When on AOSP Rom ask for TouchWiz (TW) features, and vice-versa. They'll eat you alive.
2. As mentioned above, ask for ETA. Lynching party guaranteed.
3. Demand stuff. "I want (whatever), and I want it now!1!" This is a capital offence. The nearest thread elder will start to take you apart immediately.
4. State "This Rom is ****e! Nothing here works!" The worst offence imaginable. The Inquisition is sure to arrive in numbers, and your life is forfeit.
5. Say "My previous Rom is much better than this one." See 4.
6. Start posting the same question in multiple threads. Someone on the prowl is bound to spot it, and you're dead.
7. Post a question in your thread, and re-post it 5 minutes later when no-one responds. You'll get a sound thrashing six-of-the-best style.
8. Never do thread searches, just ask what's bugging you ATM. See 7.
9. Visit the ICS thread of your choice and post: "I wanna flash this. Now, how do I root my GB first to get here?" They'll set rabid dogs on you.
10. Post stuff that will confuse the noobs. Like this: "The Dev says we are to install the Rom like this. But I have found an alternative way..." See 7.
11. Ask in and X-Rom thread: "What is better, X or Y Rom?" You'll get trampled to within an inch of your life.
12. Ask for the info that is posted in the Dev's OP: "How do I flash this...?", or "Does this Rom have (insert feature)...?" This carries a serious risk of you getting drawn and quartered on the spot.
13. Report a bug that is listed in the Dev's OP. See 12.
14. Quote a post with tons of pictures, so everybody has to scroll half a mile down to see what you have to say, then proclaim: "I love it!!1!" or "+1!" See 7.
15. Provide incorrect information with great confidence: "Can you use an ICS kernel on JB? Sure, bro, no problems!" Severity of punishment might vary according to the degree of damage done.
16. Lurk in the thread until the Dev announces that the new v13b is up. Wait 2 more minutes, then post: "What's the battery life like in v13b, guys...?" Electrocution ensues.
17. Post "Why my USB not work...?", but fail to tell them which version and kernel you are running, and what have you tried to do to resolve the issue. They'll just move along past you, ignoring you completely.
You get my drift.
Happy flashing and forum participation.

Assuming you and the guy linked below are related or great minds think alike.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1640510

Everything is covered in this thread, however I will re-state the "SEARCH" option.
Do it.
Do it again with a different phrase.
Do it a third time with another phrase. FIGURE IT OUT, BECAUSE 9 out of 10 TIMES IT HAS BEEN ANSWERED ALREADY.
Otherwise you will suffer the repercussions. You have been warned.

This thread should be stickied in every section of the Note Forum!
Nicely done and exceptionally written my friend

My addition...
to the What to do to get yourself killed or worse`....
Example: Do not post in the Stunner thread......what is better CM9 or Stunner? Or gloating about what CM9 does or doesn't do..... in a Stunner thread. Want info on another build...check out the respective thread for it. They are there for a reason.
MY biggie is...(in favor of both the noobs and veterans)
Let's not have everyone post their steps to flashing a rom. It is posted in the OP..for a reason. If you are unclear...we make ONE explanation. Not ten...ten leads to confused noobs and pissed off veterans...repetitive questions abound. I also say this because I have seen plenty of people posting WRONG methods to flash and they have partial root and are stuck. Not to mention, those searching have now uncovered the WRONG method and they become stuck, more questions.
...may come up with more later!

Thanks T, will be adding to the OP, but a little later (watching snooker now).
Anyway, this is a work in progress, everyone feel free to comment.

Awesome! Great work Chas
9. Don't ask how to root. There's already a thread about this in the Dev section.
10. Read, read and read some more before you ask about something.

Seems like a lot of hard work Chas!! Well I guess now we will see couple of less (Confused)goats wandering in the wilderness!! And lesser getting sacrificed on the alter!!
A must sticky!!
Cheers!!

No, this won't help. Noobs are noobs for a reason. They can't read and it's their first time on the interwebs.
Sadly they won't even notice this thread
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

LordManhattan said:
No, this won't help. Noobs are noobs for a reason. They can't read and it's their first time on the interwebs.
Sadly they won't even notice this thread
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
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Buzz killer

Nice thread ,helpful to many noobs
And it gave me some good laughing
Very nice Chas keep it up +1

A very good thread, i hope every note user, new or non-new should read this.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

matius44 said:
Buzz killer
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I know i know Sorry!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

very useful~~~ thanks a lot.

Thanks chas !
Perfectly explained !
PM sent to @original_ganjaman , requesting [if possible] , to an "sticky promote"

OP updated as suggested and some new stuff added.

Golden !!!
chasmodo said:
OP updated as suggested and some new stuff added.
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This one is Golden. A gem.
This goes sticky in the forums and in my signature Thanks friend for it !!
e.g.1
One question - I am running a AOSP or KP (whatever) rom and i cant have S Memo in it and my SPen doesn't capture the screenshot when i press the button and hold.
Man i read through all the threads and couldn't find an answer! Phew 850 odd pages man...........
Make this in BOLD. No matter how much long the post is...READ if fully....every single word. Reading first two lines and then claiming that yeah i have read but couldn't find any info is like calling upon the lightening strike on yourself.
e.g2
In Q&A one person got his note bricked because he directly flashed the CM9 from stunner. If alteast the person have the eyes to read the RED line written (to flash CM9 from GB) which needs to be followed and not crossed he would have not been staring at his shiny new paperweight !!
Utterly offtopic - just made you the auspicious number 1100

This thread should be projected on the moon!

"4. State "This Rom is ****e! Nothing here works!" The worst offence imaginable. The Inquisition is sure to arrive in numbers, and your life is forfeit."
Some ROMs are total sh*t.

almostinsane said:
"4. State "This Rom is ****e! Nothing here works!" The worst offence imaginable. The Inquisition is sure to arrive in numbers, and your life is forfeit."
Some ROMs are total sh*t.
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So? Flash another and move along, no need to despise..