Database Users

[Benchmark] Sprint 2.20.651.1 Based Roms

A common thing that I read on the forums is how much faster one rom is over another. Someone will claim that their rom runs much faster than others or just users will say that this one is better than another. One of my very first contributions to XDA was benchmarking every rom that was available for the HTC Mogul at that time. I decided to do the same thing for all HTC Hero roms based on the Sprint 2.20.651.1 leak. This consists of: DamagedCake 1.2b, DamageControl v2.05, DarchVanilla v2.1, Fresh Rom 2.0d, RegawMOD v2.0.2p, and untouched Stock.
Now first things first I have a statement to make. I chose to do this because I saw some people bullying others on the forums for making their own roms (I'm looking at you Regaw). I set out to run these tests to prove that every single rom based on this build would benchmark very close to the same. This means that when it boils down to it, there is basically no merit in saying that one rom is faster than another. It is simply a matter of needing to pick which one has the options already in it that you prefer. The modifications that we do to these roms will NOT dramatically speed up the core functions of the phone. It would require kernel development to actually make a real difference in the speed. Yes we can possibly make things run a little smoother and add features, but when it comes down to it, they will all be the same speed. Let me try and make my point here because I'm rambling.... I have been making roms for the Hero since November and have come to expect other people to work off of my work. It's exactly how this stuff works and is exactly what we are doing to HTC. But people typically give credit where credit is due. Then you get some people that like to go around bashing people for making a rom, yet steal work from other people without as much as a thanks. Funny again that I am talking about Regaw. You may notice that he released a patch for his rom 2.0.2p with no release notes at all as to what it fixes other than a vague mention of wifi tether. So what's in this rom?
A copy of estrongs file explorer, straight from fresh rom. Not my app at all, but still something that I have been including in fresh forever.
A copy of AutoKiller, straight from fresh rom. Again, not my app but something that has only been in fresh rom
A copy of the config file for the new XDA keyboard included in fresh rom with English and Spanish being the only languages enabled... taken straight from fresh rom
An "sdcard" folder containing above mentioned config file, taken straight from fresh rom so that it matched the line taken from the update-script.
The fix I used to make all apps show up in the market in build.prop. This fix doesn't belong to me but the way I entered it shows it was likely copy/pasted from fresh rom.
That is the entirety of the patch. He also uses my ported Espresso artwork, but that has been taken by so many roms without credit that I gave up on that. Look... I don't have a problem with regaw. And I'm really not trying to bash. My whole point of this was that every single person is entitled to make every rom that they want. So when he goes and gives someone crap for making their own rom... it really bothered me. Coincidentally, when I expected every single rom to perform about the same, his rom performed the worst on both benchmarks.
Sorry for the rant. None of this is related to the benchmarking. So let me get down to the details. Just like a dyno on a car, benchmarking is not a real world test. While the tests were consistent and what they show holds merit, I'm not saying that it doesn't mean another rom can't run smoother. But my point here was to prove that no rom is actually dramatically faster than another.
My method:
Factory wipe
Flash rom
Boot phone up and install Benchmark Pi and Neocore. Leave phone plugged in to usb and enable "stay awake while charging"
Reboot and allow phone to boot up entirely (waited for activity to stop in debugger)
Run Benchmark Pi 3 times and take the average of all 3
Reboot and allow phone to boot up entirely (waited for activity to stop in debugger)
Run Neocore 3 times (with the sound disabled) and take the average of all 3 (the only exception here was on DamagedCake. While running Neocore's 3 tests there was 1 test that was significantly lower than the other 2. I considered it a fluke and discarded it's result. I then ran it a 4th time and used that instead.)
And now I present to you the results. The "winning" rom is highlighted in red. But again, my goal was to prove that basically every rom is just about the same. Note that Benchmark Pi specifically only tests the processor where as neocore tests a lot more.
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"lightbox_share": "Share",
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"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
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Well there you have it. Hopefully this ends the "this rom is faster than this rom" debate, and also makes some people realize that they were acting a bit rude. Pick the rom that is customized the way you like it. Or at least close. Don't like any? Then make your own!! The more the merrier! And if you use someone's work, make sure you give them credit!
Excel file containing all results

Nice...I hate all the my roms faster than yours talk. penis swinging contest.

All I can say is thank you.

actually, i never feel that one ROM is much faster than the other. I though they are the same^^ Differeces exist only in APPs
Am i right?

david279 said:
Nice...I hate all the my roms faster than yours talk. penis swinging contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious, are there any female devs out there?

wow i always said that peoples claims of "this rom is way faster then another " was all opinion and had nothing to do with any fact or true statement. glad u posted this to show others the truth behind others statements of "this is way faster". also on another note this also points at the fact that a lot of others use other peoples work and fail to give credit where credit is due. the sad part is when someone bashes another for doing it. then turns around and an hour later does it himself. i hope this is the "end all, kill all" of these two issues on the forum. these are the things that have driven a few great devs away from our forum and are convincing others to leave also. were a community and we need to work together and give credit where credit is due.

toastcfh said:
wow i always said that peoples claims of "this rom is way faster then another " was all opinion and had nothing to do with any fact or true statement. glad u posted this to show others the truth behind others statements of "this is way faster". also on another note this also points at the fact that a lot of others use other peoples work and fail to give credit where credit is due. the sad part is when someone bashes another for doing it. then turns around and an hour later does it himself. i hope this is the "end all, kill all" of these two issues on the forum. these are the things that have driven a few great devs away from our forum and are convincing others to leave also. were a community and we need to work together and give credit where credit is due.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said

Thanks for this

i'm glad you posted this, not only so we could see the actual results, but more because of the 'rant' part. all this bashing and whatnot... i don't even really wanna come on xda anymore. recently, i don't even use any of the ROMs... just vanilla aosp

Nice job fresh. thank you for all your hard work!
As a developer who doesn't have time to play with this stuff I really appreciate all that the developers on xda has done for this group of geeks.
I take what is available and remove what I don't want, but that wouldn't be possible with out you guys!
Stop hatin', people! If these roms don't work the way you want, make your own or go back to stock, don't sit there and complain.

Someone's got a grudge.

As soon as Fresh came out with the latest, I switched. Everything worked right off the bat. Kind of boring really!

May i suggest you add linpack to your benchmarking list. It'll show that every rom will average around 2.4 mflops without JIT, which in turn will ultimately prove that every rom is indeed the same in performance
And thanks for making this thread. it should be stickied so newbies will stop asking "which rom is better" and questions similar to that.

This is great cuz i been wonderin bout that and been readin lil remarks here and there

Funny, I was just thinking about this earlier today... Thanks Flipz... You're very well respected here on xda, and this had to be said by someone.

Yet another reason why I'm not going to release roms for the hero. Too many pissing matches and too much duplication. It's all HTC and Googles code in there. Unless your putting out AOSP with custom kernels. Sense is Sense no matter what color you change the dialer or the look of rosie or how much you optipng or zipalign. I'd like to see a combined effort to get AOSP eclair running 100%. There are some great devs here but a little too much ego going on.

To everyone I offended, specifically blankd3ckskat3r and flipz,
I sincerely apologize for everything I said that was wrong and hurtful to the other great roms/makers. My rom was the worst out of all of them, so I shouldn't even had said anything. I never meant to hurt anyone, really I came here with great intentions. For the first time ever, I found somewhere where I was respected, liked, sought out for for help. I never had a place, even in real life, where that actually was true, due to me being an easy target. I realize now looking back that I should have never let myself say any of those things I did.
I should not have posted that post on blankd3ckskat3's thread. I wrote that originally for it not to come out sounding mean, just wondering why another was coming out of the same build, but looking back on it, it's horrible. I don't know what I was thinking. Anyone can do anything they want. It's just been a horrible week for me (personal things) and I was just really frustrated with life in general.
And for the credit. I am sorry flipz. I owe a lot of credit to you which I haven't given. I know it doesn't matter now, because you had to say something first, but I am sorry that I gave nothing. I did use your EStrongs explorer and Autokiller. I would have prefered to use Astro, but it expired 2 days ago. Besides the point. i saw the sdcard folder in your zip and it made me realize that i had forgotten to put that config file in my original 1.3 rom. The Spanish and english ones were the only ones set in the default config file downloaded from xda in the new keyboard zip, but since i had checked out your rom, i used that one since I had deleted the keyboard zip. I did use stuff from your rom like the apks and config file, I'm sorry I didn't say anything to everyone in my thread. I had seen that .fingerprint in DarchLegend, but forgotten where exactly I had seen it, so when I saw it on yours, I decided to implement it then, in the patch that i released. I wish I would have given more credit to you all, I will now, but it's more than likely too late.
I don't want this to go on any more sounding like I'm just justifying my position (which looking over now, it actually does), It's an apology. I am not very good with words (as you can probably tell), and I wish I was right now.
I guess I just wasn't ready for this stuff yet. I tried my best, and I messed up badly, getting everyone mad at me. I'm truly sorry for what I said and did.
-Dan

regaw_leinad said:
To everyone I offended, specifically blankd3ckskat3r and flipz,
I sincerely apologize for everything I said that was wrong and hurtful to the other great roms/makers. My rom was the worst out of all of them, so I shouldn't even had said anything. I never meant to hurt anyone, really I came here with great intentions. For the first time ever, I found somewhere where I was respected, liked, sought out for for help. I never had a place, even in real life, where that actually was true, due to me being an easy target. I realize now looking back that I should have never let myself say any of those things I did.
I should not have posted that post on blankd3ckskat3's thread. I wrote that originally for it not to come out sounding mean, just wondering why another was coming out of the same build, but looking back on it, it's horrible. I don't know what I was thinking. Anyone can do anything they want. It's just been a horrible week for me (personal things) and I was just really frustrated with life in general.
And for the credit. I am sorry flipz. I owe a lot of credit to you which I haven't given. I know it doesn't matter now, because you had to say something first, but I am sorry that I gave nothing. I did use your EStrongs explorer and Autokiller. I would have prefered to use Astro, but it expired 2 days ago. Besides the point. i saw the sdcard folder in your zip and it made me realize that i had forgotten to put that config file in my original 1.3 rom. The Spanish and english ones were the only ones set in the default config file downloaded from xda in the new keyboard zip, but since i had checked out your rom, i used that one since I had deleted the keyboard zip. I did use stuff from your rom like the apks and config file, I'm sorry I didn't say anything to everyone in my thread. I had seen that .fingerprint in DarchLegend, but forgotten where exactly I had seen it, so when I saw it on yours, I decided to implement it then, in the patch that i released. I wish I would have given more credit to you all, I will now, but it's more than likely too late.
I don't want this to go on any more sounding like I'm just justifying my position (which looking over now, it actually does), It's an apology. I am not very good with words (as you can probably tell), and I wish I was right now.
I guess I just wasn't ready for this stuff yet. I tried my best, and I messed up badly, getting everyone mad at me. I'm truly sorry for what I said and did.
-Dan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
And in case it wasn't obvious, this thread was going to exist even before those issues. But then while I was working on flashing all the different roms... things came up. If I may offer any assistance, the only real difference in your rom is the status bar monitor thing. I didn't actually look in to it at all, but it's the only explanation I see as to why yours wouldn't perform the same as others.
Stay in the community. Help out. Release roms. We need as much variety as we can get. But give credit where credit is due, respect everyone, and have fun.

regaw... don't beat yourself up... you owned up to it... move on.... i am pretty sure he is just trying to discourage flaming/trolling, and encourage more unity so that we don't lose anymore devs... i hope you will not be discouraged from deving anymore. learn from your mistakes, keep working hard, and move on.

flipzmode said:
Thank you.
And in case it wasn't obvious, this thread was going to exist even before those issues. But then while I was working on flashing all the different roms... things came up. If I may offer any assistance, the only real difference in your rom is the status bar monitor thing. I didn't actually look in to it at all, but it's the only explanation I see as to why yours wouldn't perform the same as others.
Stay in the community. Help out. Release roms. We need as much variety as we can get. But give credit where credit is due, respect everyone, and have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im only qouting the part about the system tray monitor thing. It is most definitly the problem, I had it from an old rom in my ext partion(I didnt notice). I ran a benchmark of my own and I couldnt get any lower then 13650ish. I read your post and then deleted the system tray apk and i just got 12896.
It wasnt running on any of my benchmarks but it went way down once deleted.

[Kitchen-ROM] Kitchen Cleaner v1.0 1/30/2011

Kitchen Cleaner
Features
- Removes Samsung keyboard, bluetooth.apk (printing over bluetooth), Browser22.apk, divx.apk (for registering), FactoryTest.apk, lcdtest.apk, OTA apps, TTS, signin.apk (samsung login), Soundplayer.apk, Google Talk, Touchwiz calculator, vpnservices.apk, wlantest.apk, and shutdown animation.
- Clean Black Theme with parts taken from 3 other themes and a little of my own work
-- Black-theme modded MMS
-- Black-theme modded Marketplace
-- Black-theme modded Phone/Contacts
-- Black-theme modded Calculator
-- 4 lockscreens
-- accurate battery mod
-- extended power menu
- default black wallpaper
- black-themed WP7 style gingerbread keyboard
- hosts ad-blocking
- Xan's Voltage Control app 3.0 Final
- Suckerpunch OC/UV Kernel #32 100HZ
- Call Log no longer shows MMS messages.
- Lag-Free Gallery.
- di11igaf's browser fix.
- ZNKP1 modem for amazing battery life.
- Correct build.prop.fingerprint for protected apps.
Download links removed.

INSTALLATION
If you are coming from another ROM that uses speedmod, suckerpunch, or a kernel with Universal Lagfix, then you should be able to just flash right on top of it from CWM. This ROM will WIPE all data on your internal SD card.
Otherwise, I recommend that you ODIN back to stock/Master Clear, and then flash this rom in clockwork recovery.
1. Flash a ROM created in Doc's Rom Kitchen, preferably the one I have provided.
2. After rebooting, then flash the Kitchen Cleaner.
3. After rebooting, feel free to go back into recovery to enable lagfix and tweaks.
4. Enjoy!
SCREENSHOTS
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
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There's already a kitchen/custom rom thread that Borg maintains. Considering this is Docs base did he sign off on this? I only ask because others have done this have since closed the thread.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.

Well it is his base, but it has been changed a pretty good bit.

Agreed but that's the whole idea of the kitchen though. Good luck dude. Best to give Doc a heads up though, it's only right.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.

I'm not trying to say I did all this by myself, I even wrote in the topic that I AM NOT A DEV. I will let Doc know about this thread though.

why wouldn't doc want people to share what they had made with his kitchen.
its clearly advertised and acknowledged so this seems like it is advertising for his thread/product. Seems like if anything this would just make people more interested in trying his kitchen and frequenting his thread or looking to his others works.

bames said:
why wouldn't doc want people to share what they had made with his kitchen.
its clearly advertised and acknowledged so this seems like it is advertising for his thread/product. Seems like if anything this would just make people more interested in trying his kitchen and frequenting his thread or looking to his others works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multiple reasons, but as Android is aOSp (emphasizing 'open source'), it isn't a huge deal. It's just that technically what the OP did (or could have done) was take someone else's custom ROM and change a few things then call it his own. That's why people are afraid of others republishing ROMs from the kitchen. But as long as the owner acknowledges that they are not a dev (X), they used the kitchen (X) which belongs to someone else (X), and they notified that 'someone else' beforehand (sorta x...) and got the okay from them (didn't do that, but s'all good), then they're in the clear.
On to the ROM: Seems like an okay idea. I'm assuming there aren't really any bugs... but for those who'd want to start from the bottom up, or just stay at the bottom, this is a good idea (though the bottom up is why we have the ROM Kitchen lol).

Loggik said:
Multiple reasons, but as Android is aOSp (emphasizing 'open source'), it isn't a huge deal. It's just that technically what the OP did (or could have done) was take someone else's custom ROM and change a few things then call it his own. That's why people are afraid of others republishing ROMs from the kitchen. But as long as the owner acknowledges that they are not a dev (X), they used the kitchen (X) which belongs to someone else (X), and they notified that 'someone else' beforehand (sorta x...), then they're in the clear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get that...but this is the 2nd time i have seen a forum member get beaten up for what someone else (could have done). If the poster doesn't do it and gives proper credit and acknowledgment of the source for their material.....other posters should stop whining.
Personally i think this posters credit/acknowledgment in the OP was enough.....but for future reference maybe it will help if anyone doing this put the cred to the kitchen in the thread title.
Seriously...its just free advertising and props for a really cool concept/dev/customization tool (the kitchen) that might inspire other members to play with and utilize it which i would imagine was the desired end result of its creators.

If anyone is interested, I can make 2 versions of the rom. One with absolute basics (70-ish MB) and this one (115-ish MB).
I think the kitchen was the best thing to happen, all I wanted to do was share something that made me really happy. I don't care about the credit or the fame.

bames said:
I get that...but this is the 2nd time i have seen a forum member get beaten up for what someone else (could have done). If the poster doesn't do it and gives proper credit and acknowledgment of the source for their material.....other posters should stop whining...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please show me the part of my post that "beat him up". Was it my good luck wishes or the wink? I just warning him because I've seen this a FEW times. No one is attacking anyone.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.

Thread name change
bames said:
....other posters should stop whining.
Personally i think this posters credit/acknowledgment in the OP was enough.....but for future reference maybe it will help if anyone doing this put the cred to the kitchen in the thread title..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Thread Title; +1 stop the negativity and flame
I would suggest we propose a blanket solution via thread Title format change to Doc&Stef and Captainkrtek:
Thread Title:"[ROM- Romkitchen.org]:v.9.xx : CleanFreak v0.9....."
Attempt to get permission and keep working. It seems that borguesian also released GingerBorgMod in this same spirit.
In fact maybe that means that the thread title should read
:"[ROM- Romkitchen.org]:v.9.xx :Gingerborgmod- CleanFreak v0.9....."
One desire of mine is that we continue to develop knowledge about the kitchens functionality and facilitate development of the Captivate side of it.
I think Cappy users are using the kitchen and not talking about the results anywhere. Bad step-children to the I9000.

I'll change the thread title, and I agree I think using the Kitchen allows fresh thoughts and perspectives. Maybe someone like me will make a ROM and come up with something that no one ever would have thought of without the ROM Kitchen allowing them a chance to make their own ROM.

bames said:
I get that...but this is the 2nd time i have seen a forum member get beaten up for what someone else (could have done). If the poster doesn't do it and gives proper credit and acknowledgment of the source for their material.....other posters should stop whining.
Personally i think this posters credit/acknowledgment in the OP was enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I made my post clearly stating that the OP had done almost everything right, and there was no reason to "beat him up". No one in this thread was or is whining or beating him up for anything, because he did give credit. lrs just warned him because he hadn't contacted and gotten permission from the owner of the Kitchen and didn't want anything bad to happen. I think that Doc is generous enough in the fact that it doesn't put a "MADE IN DOC'S KITCHEN" bootanimation.zip on every one of its ROMs that it generates, so I think it's safe to say that it'd be respectful and kind to at least ask Doc if he could publish a ROM made in his kitchen.
lrs421 said:
Please show me the part of my post that "beat him up". Was it my good luck wishes or the wink? I just warning him because I've seen this a FEW times. No one is attacking anyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ Agreed.

Also, I'd just like to point out that just because it was made in the Kitchen does not mean that I did not put a lot of effort into this ROM. Yes, it has parts taken from other ROMs, I am not denying that fact. Just try to look past all of that and focus on what open source is really about, sharing ideas and resources openly in order to improve upon what we already have.

lrs421 said:
Please show me the part of my post that "beat him up". Was it my good luck wishes or the wink? I just warning him because I've seen this a FEW times. No one is attacking anyone.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"beaten up" was over-reaction/statement on my part. My apologies as i didn't intend to offend or specifically point a finger at you. Was still agitated by the last thread of this nature in which people were much less kind than you were.
It just seems people can't resist the urge to put their two cents in with follow ups saying "this isn't your rom" or your "using someone else's base" when the user has already stated such in their OP thread and directed credit to the proper source.
If someone creates their own base and utilizes another members theme...stating such and giving proper credit in the op wouldn't it be redundant if half the posters felt the need to point out "thats not your theme" when that fact is already in the OP.
I agree best solution is for Doc's Kitchen Base to be referenced in the thread title.

Not only is credit given, but he has done a considerable amount of research and troubleshooting figuring out what exactly can be removed. This isn't the case of somebody just spending 2 minutes putting something together with the rom kitchen and posting it as his own work.
ryude didn't even want to post this, but a couple of us asked him to because of the uniqueness of the package. Find another rom that is less than 88mb with this base... you won't find it.
Ryude,
I know how you feel about taking credit for others work and feel terrible that people have reacted in a way that implies that you have. I'm sorry that I even suggested this.
Cezar has a CWM zip that deletes what he considers bloat in the Continuum thread. Maybe look at that script and write a new one that deletes the packages and post it as a mod? The end result should be the same.

Not for nothing, that dailer is sick. Minus the video call option .
As I said originally, good luck!

rootnik said:
Not only is credit given, but he has done a considerable amount of research and troubleshooting figuring out what exactly can be removed. This isn't the case of somebody just spending 2 minutes putting something together with the rom kitchen and posting it as his own work.
ryude didn't even want to post this, but a couple of us asked him to because of the uniqueness of the package. Find another rom that is less than 88mb with this base... you won't find it.
Ryude,
I know how you feel about taking credit for others work and feel terrible that people have reacted in a way that implies that you have. I'm sorry that I even suggested this.
Cezar has a CWM zip that deletes what he considers bloat in the Continuum thread. Maybe look at that script and write a new one that deletes the packages and post it as a mod? The end result should be the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree he did nothing wrong and in a previous instance i saw someone post a similar thread giving proper credit to the kitchen and he was actually flamed pretty badly.
My suggestion is for those who use the kitchen is to posted the Kitchen Base Credit in the thread title.
Maybe Doc can specify in the OP what he would prefer to see included in the thread title from those who repost roms created with the kitchen?

bames said:
"beaten up" was over-reaction/statement ... Was still agitated by the last thread of this nature in which people were much less kind than you were..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also certainly didn't mean to emphasize that anyone had been mean, other than lingering reaction to another threads sentiment.
It can get dangerously like a a schoolchilds playground here with everyone trying to oust people from their clique. I am sure that there are a scant few parents here, but I am highly sensitized to people acting that way. I know too, as adults we tend to be defensive of the sweat we put into things. As schoolchildren or adults, we need to learn to be less defensive and more inclusive.
Teambuilding and leadership.

Community

The following extracts should suffice for the behavior I have been seeing lately in the threads:
Please be friendly: Showing courtesy and respect to others is a vital part of the Android culture, and we expect everyone participating in the Android community to join us in accepting nothing less. Being courteous does not mean we can't constructively disagree with each other, but it does mean that we must be polite when we do so. There's never a reason to be antagonistic or dismissive toward anyone; if you think there is, think again before you post. Mobile development is serious business, but it's also a lot of fun. Let's keep it that way. Let's strive to be one of the friendliest communities in all of open source.
The most important rule is friendliness. Remember: disrespect and rudeness are not welcome in our community under any circumstances.
http://source.android.com/community/groups-charter.html
2. Member conduct.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.5 Courtesy towards other Members: Treat new members the way you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instruction when you can and always with respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
It may be hard at first. Please help those who lack the education by correcting their erroneous ways.
Nuff said.
Sent from a dream.

Feel free to bump the ©[email protected]¶ out of this.
Sent from a dream.

Teichopsia said:
Feel free to bump the ©[email protected]¶ out of this.
Sent from a dream.
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Click to collapse
Teichopsia you little good for nothing.... lol I kid.
I try to be polite and helpful as possible,but seeing the same attitude to ignore the rules of searching slowly changes people.
This is just my experience. When I first joined xda,I was fascinated with this large community and all the knowledge and information floating around. I always viewed xda as a place where one should pro actively search and learn,then contribute.
But after a while you see that this is not the case and the same question gets asked over and over. Or you have people state"I don't have time to read 100pages". I can't comprehend that. If your going to modify your phone I would read all I could BEFORE attempting it. I read and learned a whole month before rooting. Once I decided I've given stock its run I was beyond prepared when I rooted.
At first I was eager to help, but slowly I've been less so. Its sad really but I've skipped through many threads where I knew I could help but because I saw no effort in the poster I ignored it. To an extent I get the attitude of those that have been here towards the new people but I rather just go on with my day

You would have laughed if you could have seen my face when I read your first line.
I know what you mean. This is my first smartphone and all the research I put into it just to make sure I would get a good phone and that It would work in the country where I live. I skipped the whole blackberry mania (oddly, I dislike anything the masses go for - probably a good thing) and perhaps I'll even take a pic of my last phone (perhaps that way you guys can forgive half of my noobishness )
I too was eager to help at first and still am if I can. I have lost my patience a few times reading certain questions that don't merit being accepted by the submit button. While going through this phase I luckily came across a few posts which reminded me of what is was like being a new member (despite the fact that I spent the first month or so reading before my first post).
However, whatever the reasons are do not excuse the answers I have been reading lately from some members. It is as the more they/we complain about the "noobish questions" the angrier they/we get. Thus, resulting in posts that can get quite offensive.
Granted, they should read the op, etc. And all that, but seriously, who are we/you (not you marsdta) to be so arrogant?
We all come from different backgrounds, differences in all manners, including intellectually, but what is happening to common courtesy? Respect? If we don't put a stop to it now, it's going to get out of control.
Sent from a dream.

Teichopsia said:
However, whatever the reasons are do not excuse the answers I have been reading lately from some members. It is as the more they/we complain about the "noobish questions" the angrier they/we get. Thus, resulting in posts that can get quite offensive.
Granted, they should read the op, etc. And all that, but seriously, who are we/you (not you marsdta) to be so arrogant?
We all come from different backgrounds, differences in all manners, including intellectually, but what is happening to common courtesy? Respect? If we don't put a stop to it now, it's going to get out of control.
Sent from a dream.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can be arrogant at times I admit that. Sadly some of the negative comments don't bother me. Hear me out first. Xda has in a sense become an aspect of me. When I wake up its one of the first things I check. That's another issue entirely. But I do view xda as a community that I have personal investment. So when I see those questions I feel somewhat personally insulted. Like if the poster basically said screw you. Kind of weird.
I think some of those that been here a while might feel the same. So the frustration build and erupts in the threads. I've written a few nasty replies but have caught myself and hit delete before posting.
Common courtesy is not really common on the internet because of that wall of being anonymous. Add in the fact that we all do come from different places things get interesting. personally I would be more tough on the rule breakers while others may be more lenient. In the end the evolution of communication is quite interesting as the internet allows people to be filter less

marsdta said:
I can be arrogant at times I admit that. Sadly some of the negative comments don't bother me. Hear me out first. Xda has in a sense become an aspect of me. When I wake up its one of the first things I check. That's another issue entirely. But I do view xda as a community that I have personal investment. So when I see those questions I feel somewhat personally insulted. Like if the poster basically said screw you. Kind of weird.
I think some of those that been here a while might feel the same. So the frustration build and erupts in the threads. I've written a few nasty replies but have caught myself and hit delete before posting.
Common courtesy is not really common on the internet because of that wall of being anonymous. Add in the fact that we all do come from different places things get interesting. personally I would be more tough on the rule breakers while others may be more lenient. In the end the evolution of communication is quite interesting as the internet allows people to be filter less
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nontheless if you have or haven't been, at least you are able to restrain yourself. I too have been somewhat rude at times.
We could go back and forth argumenting this and that. Which is fun. We both would have valid points (between us, you would probably win the argument ), the bottom line is, not only are there rules to search before posting, there are also rules to respect one another. If one person breaks the rule of not searching, would that give the right to the other member to break the rule of respecting? Sure, we all have our bad days. Yes, we can loose our patience, **** happens. What I can't condone is page after page of 'bashing'. That's just me.
After reconsidering what I was about to become (I'll probably loose my patience again - it's normal), and taking into consideration the little I know about xda, I would have thought this place is about helping others learn. Even if that means to hold their hands for a while until they learn, or just say screw it if they are the type that wants to be spoon fed everything.
All I'm saying is, if someone can't be nice then to do what you do, hit that delete button and ignore them.
On a side note this is my previous cell which was a gift from a friend who got tired of seeing my 'old phone' with a rubber band around it. - hopefully after seeing this you guys will be a bit patient with any future questions I may have.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Sent from a dream.

bump
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium

REVIVE A DEAD THREAD!
Lol jk.
I agree with you 110% I always try and be helpful when I answer the new guys cause I know how they feel. My DHD is my first Android phone and I learnt so much from it. I spent two days straight reading and watchng YouTube videos before I had the guts to root and join xda so it can be pretty terrifying when something doesnt work the way you want it to. So yeah bein friendly and helpful can go a long way, especially when you're new and don't know too much about android/rooting/your device
Sent from PACman'd Desire HD

Excellent thread guys. To me it's so simple. If a post is not worthy in your mind, don't respond to it. Someone else might help out. Or perhaps the person asking the question will get frustrated waiting for a response and search it out. There is just never a reason, in my mind, to respond in a nasty way.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

So You Want to Root and Mod Your HTC One

[A couple of the One XL guys asked me to cross-post this here]
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Hey there! I’m guessing you've got yourself a shiny new HTC phone, and you've heard about this thing called "rooting" and how it supposedly can let you do all sorts of things that your carrier won't let you do, or something like that. You arrived here a little while ago from Google or by clicking a link in some blog, and you're now nosing around trying to figure out what you're supposed to do.
But stop! Wait! You've skipped over the most important question: Should you even be here in the first place?
This is not a trivial question. Making modifications to the software on your phone is not like getting your car painted or putting on some new rims or a spoiler. It's much more analogous to replacing the fuel injectors, or modifying the intake, or changing the valve timing. If you don't know what you're doing, there's a very real chance you can render your phone permanently inoperative.
This post is not going to explain how to root, unlock, or do anything else to your phone, because there are already several other threads in the Development section about that (and no, I'm not linking to them—way too soon for that). The purpose of this post is to help you determine whether you should do it at all, and if so, what you need to know beforehand.
We're going to start by taking a short quiz.
1. Which is the most accurate assessment of your comfort level with computers and electronics?
a. I keep the Geek Squad on speed-dial.
b. I generally know what I'm doing, but I'm careful not to get in over my head.
c. I'm the guy my friends and family come to when they have computer problems.​
2. What is Linux?
a. It's, um, a computer thing.
b. It's the operating system upon which Android is based, but I had to go to Wikipedia to look that up.
c. chmod 004 linuxfordummies.docx​
3. How do you feel when your computer or some other gadget isn't working the way you want it to?
a. It's a royal pain in the ass.
b. It's not the end of the world, but I can do without it.
c. It's an opportunity to learn and problem-solve.​
4. Which most accurately characterizes your relationship with your smartphone?
a. Um, relationship? It's a phone—I just need it to work.
b. I like to play around with the settings and find interesting apps.
c. I'm not happy unless I've tweaked and customized it enough that I feel it's a good reflection of who I am as a person. Also, this reflection changes by the week.​
5. You're in the middle of trying to solve a particularly frustrating problem with your computer when your spouse/significant other announces that s/he wants to have sex. What do you do?
a. Drop everything and seize the booty.
b. Curse your computer under your breath and head for the bedroom.
c. Reply, "Sorry, honey, can you give me ten more minutes?"​
Give yourself 3 points for each "c" answer, 1 point for each "b", and subtract 3 points for each "a". Then total up your score and check the chart below:
13-15: Welcome, brother! You may proceed.
11-12: You'll probably be all right, but be careful. You may be setting yourself up for more frustration than all this is really worth.
10 or less:
Stop now, head over to Android Forums, and don't look back. Trust me, you'll be much better off in the long run.
…
Still here?
Okay. Just because you're coming in with the right attitude and background doesn't mean you aren't still going to get yourself in serious trouble. Before going any further, there are several rules you must commit to memory.
1. Do Not Make Any Changes to Your Phone Until You Have a Good Understanding of What You're Doing
You wouldn't go under the hood of your car and start rewiring things and rerouting hoses based on some vague understanding of something you read on the Internet, right? You shouldn't do the same thing to your phone.
This is the reason that “One-Click” and “All-in-One” solutions should be scrupulously avoided, no matter how attractive they may be to you at the moment.
I cannot stress this too much. Using these tools allows you to skip over important learning processes and avoid learning things you really need to know. They make it much easier for you to get into a situation you have no clue how to get out of (and we’ll come back to that below). You’re better off in the long run skipping the one-click tools and taking the time to learn how to do things manually. Basically, you pay cash now, or pay later with interest.
At a minimum, before you do anything, you should be able to explain these three concepts:
-What root access means
-What you're changing when you unlock your bootloader
-What you're replacing when you flash a custom ROM or kernel​
How do you find all this out? That's the next point.
2. Become Your Own Expert
You're probably feeling pretty intimidated right now looking at all these discussions throwing around terms, abbreviations, and acronyms that make no sense to you. That's normal—in fact, it's a good sign. If you're not intimidated, you should probably leave now, because you're lacking the sense of caution that will keep you out of trouble.
You're naturally going to be drawn to people who appear to know what they're doing. Be very careful about this. Some do know what they're doing, and some only think they do. The problem is that it can be very hard to tell them apart. That's why the worst thing you can do is go into a thread and start asking, "What am I supposed to do here?" before you know enough to be able to weigh the answers you get.
You may get help from someone who knows the answer you're seeking, and you may find someone who's just a recent noob feeling flush with a little new-found expertise. Or, worst of all, you may have the bad luck to run into someone who enjoys tricking noobs into bricking their phones. These folks are thankfully rare, but they do exist.
Ultimately, you've got to do your own learning, not piggyback on someone else's. That leads to our next rule.
3. Google is Your Friend
Yeah, I know, it's a cliché. But it's a cliché because it's true.
Your experiences are not new. Your questions, almost certainly, have been answered before (and in the case of most noob questions, hundreds or thousands of times before). You should start by reading the threads here, but every time you come across a concept or term you're not familiar with, flip to another window and Google it. "How to X" and "What does X mean" are your two most powerful tools. Use them often. (If you're not proficient enough with Google to manage this, you've got no business modding your phone anyway.) Bit by bit, you'll start to feel less lost and start developing the context to understand what people are talking about.
But didn't I just say not to trust what people tell you?
Yes. However:
4. Trust the Hivemind
That rule applies individually, not collectively. In fact, gauging collective experiences is an excellent way to see what's what. When a new exploit, ROM, or mod gets posted, there is invariably a flow of responses as people try it out. Pay close attention to these discussions before you do anything.
There are almost always a few bugs and updates to anything new. That alone shouldn't deter you too much. But it's best to wait until you start seeing people posting praise, thanks, and confirmation that their phones are working well before you dip your feet in the water.
But you're still not there yet. Just because other people are having success doesn’t mean you will.
5. Don't Do Anything to Your Phone That You Don't Know How to Undo
Who are all these people rushing to act as guinea pigs? By and large (there are exceptions), these are experienced modders who know how to get themselves out of any trouble they get into. In general, if you know what you're doing, you can take your phone back to stock without too much effort. But reverting some of these changes often depends on doing things in the right order, making backups before you start, and so on.
All of us were noobs once, and most of the people here are willing to help out new users with the right attitude. But few things are more frustrating than someone who jumps on a new mod or rom, and then posts, "That didn't work, I think I’m bricked, OMG what do I do??"
You need to figure that stuff out beforehand.
Also, it's worth pointing out that everyone makes mistakes. You're going to make a mistake at some point, probably several. Proper planning and preparation will minimize the fallout when you do.
But—there is another "but" here, and it’s a big one.
6. You May Kill Your Phone
Modding your phone carries a certain risk. Phones get permanently bricked around here on a regular basis, especially when new mods and tools get released. No matter what you do, no matter what precautions you take, there is a possibility you may render your phone permanently unusable, with nothing left to do but return it and hope you can get a replacement (and hope your carrier won't realize what you did).
This risk applies to everyone. Even experienced devs have been known to brick phones because they forgot a critical step to some routine process.
If you're not comfortable taking that risk, or you can't afford to deal with the consequences, you need to leave. Period. You've been warned. You'll get sympathy (unless you did something stupid and won't own up to it), but don't expect anyone to reimburse you, least of all the dev who posted the tool you were trying to use. It won't happen, and asking will just get you a lot of derision.
Got all that? Good luck, and happy modding.

Most people will not take this ridiculous post seriously, What exactly are you trying to achieve?
If you're trying to be funny, it hasn't worked and if you think you're being helpful, it hasn't worked, merely comes across as patronising and a little childish.

homer285 said:
Most people will not take this ridiculous post seriously, What exactly are you trying to achieve?
If you're trying to be funny, it hasn't worked and if you think you're being helpful, it hasn't worked, merely comes across as patronising and a little childish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quit being a cell master dude.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

Maybe you got mixed up or something; this is XDA. Not reddit.

LiquidSolstice said:
Maybe you got mixed up or something; this is XDA. Not reddit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah where everyone's a douche

DigitaL BlisS said:
Yeah where everyone's a douche
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like where most of us have actually grown up.

While this would make a great thread to educate new users, this is not the place to post it plus, some gifs (jifs) are less than tasteful, so those are removed from the post. This would be better off in the General forum (http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=256). Thus, closed.

rooted, getting rid of that weird icon

How do we get rid of that weird icon after rooting? The one that looks like a tornado/wind/hurricane... LOL

Is it hard to search?

I've been trying to figure that out too!

What icon is that? Lol are you talking about the NFC "N" icon?
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

He's talking about this:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
It's the RCS icon.
It's been mentioned over 100 times. Now that he knows what to look for, I'll leave it to him to search.
Who knows, perhaps someone has a link for it in his signature?

I love how the search police always come out in force. For goodness sakes, just give the guy a link or move on. For me the only thing more irksome than someone not searching for himself is someone else telling him to search harder, better, more. I've been lurking here for years, contributing when I can. In those years, it seems XDA forums have become a way less friendly place. Just my 2 cents.

dave812 said:
I love how the search police always come out in force. For goodness sakes, just give the guy a link or move on. For me the only thing more irksome than someone not searching for himself is someone else telling him to search harder, better, more. I've been lurking here for years, contributing when I can. In those years, it seems XDA forums have become a way less friendly place. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it gets annoying especially when that is asked in the same topic of how to root.

It's threads like this one that annoys me:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/tmobile-s7-edge/help/best-twrp-root-t3491778
Yet I believe that I handled it pretty well.
Regarding "search policing", it becomes counterproductive to feed the members that don't want to search or read for themselves because those same members will continue to want to be fed information instead of finding it for themselves. They'll post a thread and wait days for the answer instead of spending 10 minutes to find it themselves. They half-ass it and next thing you know they get pissed off because they didn't know that flashing something would wipe their internalsd or they get stuck in download mode or they get stuck with a strange icon (like in this thread) that they desperately want to be rid of. A 10 minute search and 5 minute of reading would have saved time of almost a dozen members replying to this very thread. The OP would have his/her answer and additional knowledge/experience (funny how those go hand in hand) that he/she could not acquire by being given the instructions.
<sarcasm>
In fact, next time perhaps I'll just quote an entire OP for the next person to inquire. It'll be much faster for them than giving them a link to click on. That might make it easier, then they will be missing out on the comments, replies, feedback, etc that the community has already given. That will also make it better for the OP to get his/her answers. Plus it clutters up the forum which is also a neat thing to do.
</sarcasm>
Bottom line, XDA is a forum of convenience for it's members! They've built a search feature where it helps (not perfect but it IS helpful), threads are stickied, added polls, images, additional links, attachments, you can subscribe to threads, you can vote on their usefulness, etc.
Yet we continue to get posts like:
xxx said:
Hello guys,
my tmo S7 Edge today is at home.
Which is today the best and newer way to Root and Twrp this bad boy ?
Link if you have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So naturally it's going to get people peeved. People like me that has spent thousands of hours here in the forum helping people, people like the forum administrators and moderators that sacrifice their personal lives by keeping this forum "newb friendly" and operational, people like developers that risk damaging their own devices for the sake of XDA's members then spend an hour making a thread with as simple as possible instructions (often with pictures for those that need them) just for a lazy member to post a new thread asking for all of it to be given to them.
So naturally, it pisses some people off.
See my point?
I'm not defending or condoning being rude towards the members but I honestly do feel that pushing them to do some work for themselves should be expected because otherwise they become a burden and can end up causing more harm than good towards the community (moral wise) and even to themselves due to the lack of knowledge (and experience) which can and often does result in damaged/bricked devices. If I'm not mistaken XDA is a forum where we try to prevent that, not encourage it. So my warped way of thinking is that if we "give" them the method to do something instead of "teaching" them it'll be like a students going to school without tools to learn. 100% lecture. No books, guides, visual aids, etc. Crap... in that case, we might as well have our teachers take the students tests for them too! After all we need them to accomplish their goals, right?
But if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'll just set up a PO box and have members send me their phones and I'll do everything for them (for a fee of course) so it'll make it easier for them. But that would probably catch on unfortunately.

Well, to be honest. The best thing to do when someone asks a question like this is to say what the icon is called, that way they can actually search. Instead of trying to be over complicated with things. Cheers
Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

lunerceli said:
Well, to be honest. The best thing to do when someone asks a question like this is to say what the icon is called, that way they can actually search. Instead of trying to be over complicated with things. Cheers
Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like I did in post #5?

I'm shocked..SHOCKED! that in the 8 years I've been on XDA that people haven't started using the search function! *sarcasm*
Just give them the answer and kill their thread. It's not like we're charged by the stupid thread or the stupid 50 posts following scolding the person or the mod that comes in annoyed.

Binary100100 said:
Just like I did in post #5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I know not everyone has the patience to try to help others properly here on xda. Been here way too long to not understand that. Lol.
Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

The Root said:
I'm shocked..SHOCKED! that in the 8 years I've been on XDA that people haven't started using the search function! *sarcasm*
Just give them the answer and kill their thread. It's not like we're charged by the stupid thread or the stupid 50 posts following scolding the person or the mod that comes in annoyed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rule 1 is to search before posting. Why is that do you think?
Failing to do so creates clutter and chaos the forum. That makes it HARDER to search because for those that DO use it end up getting a dozen threads created by members not wanting to search or read instead of getting what they were looking for.

Binary100100 said:
Rule 1 is to search before posting. Why is that do you think?
Failing to do so creates clutter and chaos the forum. That makes it HARDER to search because for those that DO use it end up getting a dozen threads created by members not wanting to search or read instead of getting what they were looking for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what do the five pages of everyone making sure they get in to scold the person do for clutter?

The Root said:
And what do the five pages of everyone making sure they get in to scold the person do for clutter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How would that happen if they were to search to begin with? They wouldn't post the unnecessary threads thus there would be less clutter and a happier community. Right?
Ah. The perfect world. But it'll never happen. Neither will stopping those that get annoyed at those that keep it from being so.

Binary100100 said:
How would that happen if they were to search to begin with? They wouldn't post the unnecessary threads thus there would be less clutter and a happier community. Right?
Ah. The perfect world. But it'll never happen. Neither will stopping those that get annoyed at those that keep it from being so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lesson learned is let's all use search and let's all not make a big deal about helping noobs and annoying people. You're right. In a perfect world...

The Root said:
Lesson learned is let's all use search and let's all not make a big deal about helping noobs and annoying people. You're right. In a perfect world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. But then there will be posts like this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69420786&postcount=1288
This person found the thread then posted in it asking if it would be possible to root.
Those kind of posts puzzle me because we can't give them the link to the thread (because they are already there.) You really don't even know if they have the phone to begin with, do they understand English? Perhaps the guide is too complicated for them? Are they asking for someone to do it for them? You just don't know until you probe further. But how to do that without sounding rude? How to keep everyone else from being rude to that person so desperately pleading for guidance (that was already posted in the very first post) on something as simple as rooting?
My perspective is this: I have no technical degree. None. I have experience. Experience from reading, searching and doing. Experience from making mistakes, learning from them and helping others if/when I can. I'm not a genius... but I'm not mentally incapable either. There are members that dive right in and exploit root and develop and ask for nothing in return accept perhaps the occasional expression of appreciation for the hundreds and in some cases thousands of hours dedicated for all of the members that only take them for granted. Then there are members that just want everything read to them, done for them, given to them. The forum is designed for them, not me, not the developers that are technologically proficient. The forum is designed to be newb friendly. We can post pictures, attachments, Youtube videos, links, etc. It has a search feature and it even has a nice feature that brings up possible threads to read when they start to post a new one to prevent duplicate threads from occurring (which is supposed to keep other members from feeling the need to flame the newbs.) Yet... these members STILL pop up. We still get duplicate threads, repeated questions, angry and impatient members ready to "newb-pounce." Then they become the "bad buy" and the newb becomes the innocent victim.
How the hell has it gotten to this? Simple. Laziness. People don't want to research. They want the quick and easy path. They want their questions answered A.S.A.P. without anyone getting pissy at them so they can go on with their lives with the profit that they feel entitled to while the rest of us pound on our desks, beat our keyboards, pull our hair out and (my personal favorite) "the bird" to the monitor with a click on the close button to keep myself from saying something "mean." But it's people like me (that won't spoonfeed the lazy) that are the "forum bullies."
Are we (the entire community as a whole) really expected to just respond politely with the answer to everyone's question without any sarcasm or rudeness? For all of those lazy people that just want to be spoonfed that will inevitably brick or cause damage to something because they skipped a step because they were too lazy or impatient? Those same people will only post another "HELP ME!" thread because they didn't take the time to do something right the first time.
I guess my messed up way of thinking is that tough love is spurring those members to do what they should be doing in the first place. Reading!
I suppose that's just my old fashioned mindset though.

Binary100100 said:
Exactly. But then there will be posts like this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69420786&postcount=1288
This person found the thread then posted in it asking if it would be possible to root.
Those kind of posts puzzle me because we can't give them the link to the thread (because they are already there.) You really don't even know if they have the phone to begin with, do they understand English? Perhaps the guide is too complicated for them? Are they asking for someone to do it for them? You just don't know until you probe further. But how to do that without sounding rude? How to keep everyone else from being rude to that person so desperately pleading for guidance (that was already posted in the very first post) on something as simple as rooting?
My perspective is this: I have no technical degree. None. I have experience. Experience from reading, searching and doing. Experience from making mistakes, learning from them and helping others if/when I can. I'm not a genius... but I'm not mentally incapable either. There are members that dive right in and exploit root and develop and ask for nothing in return accept perhaps the occasional expression of appreciation for the hundreds and in some cases thousands of hours dedicated for all of the members that only take them for granted. Then there are members that just want everything read to them, done for them, given to them. The forum is designed for them, not me, not the developers that are technologically proficient. The forum is designed to be newb friendly. We can post pictures, attachments, Youtube videos, links, etc. It has a search feature and it even has a nice feature that brings up possible threads to read when they start to post a new one to prevent duplicate threads from occurring (which is supposed to keep other members from feeling the need to flame the newbs.) Yet... these members STILL pop up. We still get duplicate threads, repeated questions, angry and impatient members ready to "newb-pounce." Then they become the "bad buy" and the newb becomes the innocent victim.
How the hell has it gotten to this? Simple. Laziness. People don't want to research. They want the quick and easy path. They want their questions answered A.S.A.P. without anyone getting pissy at them so they can go on with their lives with the profit that they feel entitled to while the rest of us pound on our desks, beat our keyboards, pull our hair out and (my personal favorite) "the bird" to the monitor with a click on the close button to keep myself from saying something "mean." But it's people like me (that won't spoonfeed the lazy) that are the "forum bullies."
Are we (the entire community as a whole) really expected to just respond politely with the answer to everyone's question without any sarcasm or rudeness? For all of those lazy people that just want to be spoonfed that will inevitably brick or cause damage to something because they skipped a step because they were too lazy or impatient? Those same people will only post another "HELP ME!" thread because they didn't take the time to do something right the first time.
I guess my messed up way of thinking is that tough love is spurring those members to do what they should be doing in the first place. Reading!
I suppose that's just my old fashioned mindset though.
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Ideally I think the best answer might be to use the report button and explain in the comments that the mod might need to directly contact the poster and help with etiquette and answers. Then they can set consequences if the person is reported again for the same issue.

The Root said:
Ideally I think the best answer might be to use the report button and explain in the comments that the mod might need to directly contact the poster and help with etiquette and answers. Then they can set consequences if the person is reported again for the same issue.
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LOL!
As a former moderator I can tell you that this would not work. Sorry.
They receive a notification banner on the top of the screen that you can respond to.
They do not like those kind of reports because that requires giving direct attention to the person that posted the thread.
That person in turn requests assistance from the moderator therefor making the moderator the feeder. So not only does the moderator have to spoonfeed but he also has to get to the other 20+ reported posts that are waiting as well. That's why they kinda turn a blind eye towards the kind of behavior regarding duplicate threads and the members that are so against them. The most they might do is reply in the thread with something like, "Search and read" then close the thread. If the same member posts another thread again, he'll just issue an infraction. Infractions doesn't really mean anything having ten (expired) points myself thanks to another former forum moderator. I've dealt with members that were in the hundreds! A member doesn't take it seriously after a while. Even when they (trolls included) get banned they simply open another account.
There's no easy way to deal with the issue unfortunately. I can assure you that XDA admins and moderators have tried for YEARS with various methods to reduce the problem but will even admit that it will never go away. The most that we can do is shrug, ignore that member (the actual ignore feature built into the forum which I have several people on currently) and move on. Hopefully, they get the message but they will never go without having someone being rude to them.
Seriously, people need to grow up! Stop whining about their hurt feelings. Sorry, but if you can own a phone and use a computer then I would suspect that you have had enough interaction with the real world to know that not everybody wears My Little Pony t-shirts and sings Barney songs! People are selfish, lazy, rude, inconsiderate, ignorant and arrogant but they are also helpful, selfless, smart, and patient. In a world of anonymity where anyone can have any kind of persona they wish you cannot possibly expect them all to be polite. Even if there are rules to require them to do so. It's just not going to happen.

I just give a slow clap. TBH it is easier for someone to post asking about something they know nothing about, like this thread, asking what it is. Then they can search. As a former developer, this makes things easier for the person posting. Not everyone know what everything is and if they don't know what something is then they cannot search for something they don't know about. Even inputting something things into Google won't provide the answer you are looking for. Lol. Another slow clap. Lol
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