Database Users

[Q] Radiation hazard SAR Rating for Android builds

Hey guys very very important question , it's about the sar rating when we make calls . Sar represents radiation hazards to the brain and , most phones have predetermined valuethat is approved before they are sold for safety . Please can somebody do a test about this
htc hd2 running on winmo is safe but running on builds like the ones here we are not sure
i hope that the forum members and the developers for tons can find out and let us know.
Very very important !!!

im taking a guess here, but wouldn't it depend on your radio rom not the build?
can someone confirm or dispute this?

primaraly your looking at hardware such as antana and shielding. im doubtfull that diferent radio packages are going to boost things to unacceptable levels, otherwise mfg's wouldnt cook them up.
both winmo and android runs on the same radio regardless of wich one is booted.
does that make you feel more warm and fuzzy on the inside?...... or is it from to much radiation?

Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics

enneract said:
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right
But if it does still, you won't die because of this radioation. It will only make you sterile if you carry your phone always near of your balls.

But then again if there are safety requirements about this than it is only
Logical to know that if a device exceeds a safe limit then it means
It could pose a health issue.
With that in mind , I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.

ok, first, try educating your self before posting the same drivel in a bunch of diferent threads.
had you spent as much time searching how sar is tested as you did posting , you would have found that its tested @ the hardwares max output.
hmm... the software comes no wheres near pushing the hardware to the limit.
the radio software is the same in both WM mode and in Android mode
therefore this would lead to the conclusion that if it passed federal standards for sar emissions when run @ full hardware output, and we arnt driving it that hard, that we are at a level LOWER than what it was tested...

fariez44 said:
I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please fwd me your bank info, and each specific condition you would like it tested.
its not cheep
http://www.metlabs.com/Services/Wir...ywgP2vhaUCFSBugwodfX3aOw.aspx?_kk=SAR+testing
http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/01/miller.html
http://www.rfexposurelab.com/

Well thanks for the information , I was looking for an explanation as such
It seems you resolved my doubts and thanks once again.[/B]

Need to take care of ourselves
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds. We also know some builds provide better cell signal and wifi capabilities. I strongly guess there is a difference between radiation levels of different builds.
If someone leads us to measure the SAR levels of builds under this forum to get an "XDA approval", we can surely all donate to her/him. Then we also can prefer the builds acording to their radiation levels.
Someone with knowledge please help us to determine:
- methods of measurement
- rules and standards of approving the builds
- safety classification according to SAR levels
Radiation is no joke. We are the only big enough developer community to provide this standardization to custom builds.

Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.

enneract said:
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01

baybenbey said:
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id bet that has wayyyy more to do with screen settings, size, brightness resolution refresh rate comparative brightness of the room( dark room more eye strain) than radiation.
Take two or three flights and you'll already have been exposed more than a small transmitter will give in its lifetime.

I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
First I noticed it with my old HTC Trinity. When I moved to an area with generally low reception, I kept getting headaches during phonecalls, while not having them in other areas where the reception was fine. Those headaches always started on the side of the head, where I held the phone. When switching to a bluetooth headset (which has much lower radiation levels) the headaches were gone.
Another example was the Nokia N73 which I had to use for a job I did. I never had a phone before and after which had such an excellent reception. Areas where I couldn't even get a signal with other phones, were no problem for the N73. I could make and receive phone calls without any problems (1-2 bars). For 3 days I had the phone around my neck with a lanyard. So it was resting on my chest all the time. And I can say for a fact that I got a weird feeling at exact that point. When removing the phone from the lanyard or replacing it with a dummy unit or switching it off, it stopped ...
There are various other phone where I can reproduce that. Unfortunatly.
I'm pretty sure too, that different builds have different radiation levels and the radio rom is not the only thing affecting those. When running WP7 on the HD2 I got headaches very fast (after 5 minutes) being on the phone. With Android (at least the ROM I use) and WM 6.5 those headaches only start after 1+ hour on the phone and even then much less. The radio rom might limit the maximum output, but the specific reception control still comes from within the OS.
So since I seem to be pretty sensitive on this, I'm cool with Android on the HD2. I don't get any more headaches than with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or other "low-SAR-phones"). However with WP7 on the HD2 I had serious problems having long conversations over the phone, comparable to my experience with the HTC Trinity in low reception areas. But I don't think that any of those levels are life threatening - it's just an inconvinience (at least for me). But being a gadget fan and geek that's a little bit of a letdown, having to admit that those things might actually be harmful in one way or another.

baybenbey said:
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet, every study focusing on the overall cancer rate in comparison to cell phone adoption has found no correlation. There are numerous experimental problems with actually studying the supposed effect directly (in fact, there was a new york times article earlier this week written by an oncologist enumerating those problems, and why the research, either way, on this subject is fundamentally flawed).
However, the fact remains that if you are scared of this latest nonsensical boogeyman, you should also avoid exposure to all EM radiation of radio and higher energies - you know, radio waves, microwaves, infrared and visible light - goodluck!
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously there is no way that you can get a headache from listening to a speaker placed a few millimeters from your ear for an extended period of time. Obviously, no bloody idiot would think that.

Re-read my post ;-) the speaker has nothing to do with the headaches...

Jeez this whole discussion sounds like one of those stupid news lead-ins like 'find out whats killing your kids... ...right after the break'
Surely there are worthier things to worry about than the radiation from cel phones. Just tune in to Fox News, you'll find plenty of ridiculous crap to worry about. Ask yourself this : if you know for sure that when you're 70 you'll have cancer from using cel phones all your life, will that be enough to make you stop using them now? I'll take the cancer over going back to pagers and pay-phones.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

What's the problem discussing possible downsites of customizing our devices? It's not black and white, you know. We can discuss this stuff, and use phones accordingly to our findings and knowledge.
And as said before: It's not (only) about cancer (or any other long term damage this might cause). There are obviously short term effects for some people, why not try minimizing those?

I think it's no difference between WinMo or android builds radiation because the hardware it's the same whit its limitations....even if this wasn't true the livel of sar are not so high to damage our brain(it's possible some biological effect)...so take it easy...only God knows...perhaps

‪‪‪
‪‪‪‪‪‪It is really weird that some people here, agrssively oppose individuals who are sharing their concerns by stating some scientific findings about the hazards of SAR. What is the purpose of trying to insult and silence people on the discussion of such a potential risk? Weird!
In the previous references I shared, more than one study of 10+ year of mobile phone usage statistics point out an increased incidence of brain cancer. There are many studies with this result.
And secondly, I found few articles which completely refuses the hazards and defends the safety of mobile phone radiation by agressively opposing(like some people here) the related scientific data. Most of them are suspiciously published from Finland(Country of Nokia). These articles are written in an ideologic and biased manner and falsify all the findings which prove the cancer corelation as nocebo effect or false positive. Or they study the effects of SAR on skin epitheliel cells(relatively resistant against radiation) instead of brain glial cells(sensitive to radiation) and -no surprise- in the end there is no serious harmfull effect... These articles urge to come into the conclusion that SAR is as lovely as blessing of God! Take a look at the discussion section of wikipedia on this topic. All editors complain biased and frequent editing of the page by someone who is adding suggestive sentences to defend the safety of SAR. Hmm...
According to some people here, by looking at the relative wavlength and frequency, microwaves are supposed to be less harmfull than visible light. In fact we can cook a chicken in a microwave oven but not in a sunny beach. SAR can not be found safe by comparing only wavelength/frequency. Who tries to do that obviously misses 3 major points which are:
- distance from source
- intensity of rays
- duration of exposure.
Anyway, even the fanatic SAR defenders in scientific community do not defend it by such a point of view.
‪‪‪
‪‪

Galaxy S II

Hi, I was an andorid user and when i had one i loved it too bits then came windows phone 7 and im not going to lie i loved that more, however I am due a upgrade and the sheer power of the new andorid phones overpower windows phone 7 handsets and adter watching some youtube videos web browising is faster. However I have a few questions, would you recommened it? How is the batter life with e-mail updates constant/instant and few web browsing. My old android x8 had soem lag, has this now been sorted due to the power or is it jsut andorid os?
Thanks

Here's some things to consider with the SGS2. Some of what's listed effects different users to different degrees.
- Display
There's a band on the left side that seems discolored on a gray background at 20% brightness in the dark. Some see it in everyday use, some don't. I'd venture a guess that more don't or the hue and cry would be louder. If you're anal retentive about your display, check out the 60 page thread.
- Wi-Fi
Seems wonky for some users. It may be equipment specific (EG: router) or strangeness with a particular handset. There's a couple of threads running on that.
- 2G/3G/4G
There's some connectivity issues depending on what network you're on. Make sure your location and/or carrier aren't ones people may be having issues with.
- Audio
If you're an audiophile there's a couple of threads on audio performance which, due to a number of factors, has been deemed by pros to be below that of the original Galaxy.
- Camera
There's a bunch of threads on stills and video. Read them if you're a heavy camera user. Biggest issue now is a pink spot showing up photographing white backgrounds in natural light.
- Battery
Average at best. As things currently are, plan on 10-16 hours depending on how you use the phone. There's an issue in 2.3.3. that effects dual-core phones and Samsung's issuing an update to 2.3.4. any day now which is supposed to correct it.
Based on the way I (and only I) use the phone I'm very happy and the above issues either don't bother me or don't effect me. The phone's fast, the display is beautiful, and it's a great all around device. Compare your hot buttons to those of others and if you think you're good, by all means get the phone.

Don't forget the color banding, gradients don't appear smooth but look banded like they did in the 90's with 16 bit color

godutch said:
Don't forget the color banding, gradients don't appear smooth but look banded like they did in the 90's with 16 bit color
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a thread on whether the phone's fully using its 24bit capabilities via the display. The theory is that when software is directly addressing the screen its fine. When drivers get involved it drops to 16bit. The same thing happened to the Nexus S and was fixed in 2.3.4. We're hoping the same thing happens.

I would just like to that all you for your comments, so far all the problems are actully scaring me lol. However with all these problems would you still reccommened this phone? If so do you like it more than your previous andorid phone?
Thanks

andoridkiller said:
I would just like to that all you for your comments, so far all the problems are actully scaring me lol. However with all these problems would you still reccommened this phone? If so do you like it more than your previous andorid phone?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problems i have none of the above and suggest the ones that do are in a minority as always .
Choice is yours but remember that a forum like tis does not get may saying its brilliant by its very nature those that perceive a problem post those that dont have the problem dont post .
Plus the posters of xxx problem always manage to post multiple threads saying exactly the same .
jje

JJEgan said:
Problems i have none of the above and suggest the ones that do are in a minority as always .
Choice is yours but remember that a forum like tis does not get may saying its brilliant by its very nature those that perceive a problem post those that dont have the problem dont post .
Plus the posters of xxx problem always manage to post multiple threads saying exactly the same .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 nicely put
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA Premium App

andoridkiller said:
I would just like to that all you for your comments, so far all the problems are actully scaring me lol. However with all these problems would you still reccommened this phone? If so do you like it more than your previous andorid phone?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, if your just using it as a device that can phone, text, take pics when you need that arent for a magazine or something, play some tunes whilst you are on the bus or whatever, do some modding if you are that way inclined then buy it. If you are fussy about anything like that find something else. People will always find problems with devices like this as they are used to better maybe or compare it to a device thats is specifically for playing music or taking photos. This is a great phone, best i have had and i am well pleased. Just my opinion anyway.

Im so tired of people summing up everyones experience. I have a sgs2 from first batch and I have none of the problems youll find on the first 2-3 pages of threads. Remember like the member above me said, people with complaint threads will post before a postive thread. Complaint threads will get the most attention and see the most post. There might be less then 10 members actually having the problem if you read through the thread.
Display: gradients on screen is really only not that noticable unless your anal. Only time I see it is when I open xda app(takes ages to load on brown screen) and others are seeing it on the intro to angry birds. Not while actually playing but the intro lol. Screen is beautiful and works 99.9% correctly.
Wifi: I have no issues with connection or speed. I download lost of big files daily. Mostly mixtapes and other files usually around a 100mb+. I get connection and my 15-20mbs download no matter where im at in my house.
2g/3g/4g/ My device stays connected through 3g all day. When im actually downloading or using data it switches in 1sec to H+. Real world usage is really fast in North florida but if im playing with speedtest apps I will get mixed reviews.
Audio- I start my music at work around 9am everyday. I work with loud ass dogs and other various animals on a daily basis. Never had a problem with audio coming through my handset and I use the included headphones. At 50% I can hear my audio over barking dogs. In my vehicle with my 2 12s and 1000w amp you can hear me from a block away. Easily matches my wifes iphone4 if not better with poweramps eq.
Camera- No issues here. Just getting back from short trips to jacksonville fl, orlando, and north georgia(mostly ATL) and no pink spots on my photos.
Battery life is all user to user. I myself have the luxury of charging my phone over night unlike others on the website. I can do my heavy using from 9-6 everyday and still have 30-50% when I get home. Music is always playing through headphones(9-6) 2 emails checking hourly, check xda 1000times, browse atleast 20 websites throughout the day and other numerous stuff and can make it home after a work day. If I was anal I could get 2days out of my phone before it actually dies. Remember with android most problems are User Error.
Unless you are in love with Sense, theres no phone that can match it until the next sgs comes out.
BarryH_GEG said:
Here's some things to consider with the SGS2. Some of what's listed effects different users to different degrees.
- Display
There's a band on the left side that seems discolored on a gray background at 20% brightness in the dark. Some see it in everyday use, some don't. I'd venture a guess that more don't or the hue and cry would be louder. If you're anal retentive about your display, check out the 60 page thread.
- Wi-Fi
Seems wonky for some users. It may be equipment specific (EG: router) or strangeness with a particular handset. There's a couple of threads running on that.
- 2G/3G/4G
There's some connectivity issues depending on what network you're on. Make sure your location and/or carrier aren't ones people may be having issues with.
- Audio
If you're an audiophile there's a couple of threads on audio performance which, due to a number of factors, has been deemed by pros to be below that of the original Galaxy.
- Camera
There's a bunch of threads on stills and video. Read them if you're a heavy camera user. Biggest issue now is a pink spot showing up photographing white backgrounds in natural light.
- Battery
Average at best. As things currently are, plan on 10-16 hours depending on how you use the phone. There's an issue in 2.3.3. that effects dual-core phones and Samsung's issuing an update to 2.3.4. any day now which is supposed to correct it.
Based on the way I (and only I) use the phone I'm very happy and the above issues either don't bother me or don't effect me. The phone's fast, the display is beautiful, and it's a great all around device. Compare your hot buttons to those of others and if you think you're good, by all means get the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

intruda119 said:
Display: gradients on screen is really only not that noticable unless your anal. Only time I see it is when I open xda app(takes ages to load on brown screen) and others are seeing it on the intro to angry birds. Not while actually playing but the intro lol. Screen is beautiful and works 99.9% correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you call this "not that noticable" I give up :
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(Nexus One vs S2 @ "the Impossible Game" )
Do you think this is a normal IQ for a High End device like the S2?
As to Angry Birds 1 & Rio (and other games too) it is not only noticable in the intros my friend ... if you play them you will see !

Yeah I consider that not noticable in my book.
1st photo is a picture of the battery charging when phone is turned off if I'm correct. I don't stare at my screen when its just charging. In my real world use ill never see that long enough to annoy me.
2nd pic is when its connected to kies. When I actually use keis I'm not looking at the phone. I'm not saying its not there but the first 2 pics is not something I see daily. Im guessing the 3rd is a game but I don't play it. But the gradient is there.
I'm pretty sure I've heard its a software issue and not hardware. I find the pictures you posted funny. It shows me how hard it is to reproduce the gradients. But like I've said before I must have crap standards to accept a phone with imperfections. Can't believe I spent 700 on the best phone out to date.
To me this is a small issue that's resolved with a software update or one of the amazing devs come up with something. We don't have a ton of choices and I rather have gradients on a FEW screens vs what HTC is doing.
I understand that im a early adaptor of a device. Things may be changed/fixed in the next couple of months like nfc or something.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

intruda119 said:
Im so tired of people summing up everyones experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your solution is to sum up yours and assume your individual device and personal expectations trump all? All hail the king.

Geiger counter add on

Hi if someone could translate the instructions on this page:
http://www.radiation-watch.org/p/assembly-manual.html#sec7
into english it would make a pretty cool addon.
Thanks

FTFY! (Need 10 characters to answer you)

search the market for com.rdklein.radioactivity
its a geiger counter based on your camera taped off and it seems pretty legit and amazing
check the website too
hotray-info.de
luckily i couldn't really test it yet

cougarten said:
search the market for com.rdklein.radioactivity
its a geiger counter based on your camera taped off and it seems pretty legit and amazing
check the website too
hotray-info.de
luckily i couldn't really test it yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was looking forward to testing this until I realized they want five bucks for it. Also judging by the reviews I would say it's either a scam or it just wouldn't work with my phone anyways, someone else with an Evo 3D put on there that it didn't pick up anything from a radium watch or a stack thorium welding rods.

How can the camera pick up radio active particals to make a Geiger counter? When the cmos is only designed to pick up emf (electro magnetic frequency) in the human visual spectrum? OK given that most cmos camera devices will stretch a little bit outside the normal human spectrum up to infrared but not much more than that, radio active particals are not within the visual emf of humans...
sent from my legend, currently using extream legend fuse™

ranger4740 said:
How can the camera pick up radio active particals to make a Geiger counter? When the cmos is only designed to pick up emf (electro magnetic frequency) in the human visual spectrum? OK given that most cmos camera devices will stretch a little bit outside the normal human spectrum up to infrared but not much more than that, radio active particals are not within the visual emf of humans...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is because that radioactive particles are much higher energy and will act on the CMOS detector. It works by figuring out what the noise pattern on your camera is then it just looks for spikes in pixels or groups of pixels and maps those are radiation. There are some fudge factors to convert from pixels and stuff to actual radiation numbers.

So does your camera have to be active for this to work? Or can it work passively?

The sensor will need to be open (active).
Keep in mind that it'll be somewhat useful to detect the presence of radiation, but absolutely useless for quantifying it. It'll also be quite insensitive.
If you're after a dose rate (quantifying) meter, you'd be better served by a serial-connected counter. If you're just mucking around though, the camera-based one may suffice

It's somewhat similar to the pulse detector apps for phones... Cool to play with, and lets you say "oh my heart rate is faster after I did my run"... But while it's relatively accurate, you'd want a real monitor for any serious usage... Or take the pulse manually
I guess similar applies here. The dosage depends on the amount of radiation emitted, not how much manages to "light up" the Cmos above background noise...
Again, cool to point at rock which is slightly above background levels, but no something you want to rely on.

Oh just thought of something, the sample rate of the sensor would effect the readings wouldn't it?
sent from my legend, currently using extream legend fuse™

The "REAL RadioactivityCounter" made by scientist Rolf-Dieter Klein, is indeed a very serious competitor. The mere fact that someone has bothered to work out the details how to make a cheap mobile cam, detect ionizing radiation, deserves a PhD by it self.
The difference in using your phone with taped over cam, costing you $5 bucks, is nothing compared to buying a dedicated device in the $100+ range, that is only slightly better for certain types of short-range radiation like (alpha and low-energy beta). In addition the cam CMOS sensors doesn't saturate under high doses, like an ionization based device, and thus provides better accuracy!
The sensitivity depends on the physics of your mobile camera, where most phone cams start picking up radiation at about 10 µSv/h. For the iPad2 it picks up radiation already at the 1 µSv/h level.
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So unless you are making high-precision, low-energy or background radiation measurements (like looking for Radon in houses), this app is worth every penny. In addition it is one of the best supported apps out there, with a solid scientific base.
Links:
Hack-A-Day - presentation and review
Developer Web Site
Forum
I especially like the radioactive Bavarian mushrooms YouTube video!

Would this be sensitive enough to detect leakage outside of x-ray rooms ? Yes, I realize that is is not a substitute for the devices used by licensed radiation safety expert.

bamx2 said:
Would this be sensitive enough to detect leakage outside of x-ray rooms ? Yes, I realize that is is not a substitute for the devices used by licensed radiation safety expert.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not, since "leakage" measurements involve low level (and possibly also low energy) detection, under a long time.

It works
Sent from my Wildfire S using Tapatalk 2

It appears the Evo 3D is on their site of devices it works with, so maybe that was just a garbage review after all? It would be nice if there was a trial version for it, I have some Cd-109 and Sr-90 sources I'd like to test it with.
You would think the optics would block nearly all of it, but they say some cameras can still pick up beta particles (Sr-90 specifically). If so this may be useful in finding pitchblende.

xHausx said:
It appears the Evo 3D is on their site of devices it works with, so maybe that was just a garbage review after all? It would be nice if there was a trial version for it, I have some Cd-109 and Sr-90 sources I'd like to test it with.
You would think the optics would block nearly all of it, but they say some cameras can still pick up beta particles (Sr-90 specifically). If so this may be useful in finding pitchblende.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again it depend on the construction and location of the camera module. This is also the reason why they prefer to use the front facing camera for this. It simply contains less lenses and simpler electronics, that can complicate proper measurements. According to the developer, measuring pitchblende is working really well!

pulser_g2 said:
It's somewhat similar to the pulse detector apps for phones... Cool to play with, and lets you say "oh my heart rate is faster after I did my run"... But while it's relatively accurate, you'd want a real monitor for any serious usage... Or take the pulse manually
I guess similar applies here. The dosage depends on the amount of radiation emitted, not how much manages to "light up" the Cmos above background noise...
Again, cool to point at rock which is slightly above background levels, but no something you want to rely on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not necessarily... any good heart rate monitoring app works completely perfectly. Maybe you have a bad camera/flash position or the app can't count. It's exactly the same as a pulse ox that they use in hospitals, no reason it'd be any less accurate. If you don't believe me go break into an ER and measure with both

Aggressive Method to prevent throating on Stock ROM (Fan)

Ive been so sick of how poorly LG handles software heat management that I decided to create a portable yet practical fan heatsink case for my G3. At the time I didn't want to load any custom ROMs and then mess with the Kernal in order to solve the overheating throating issues we all face with the Stock G3 at some point.
Supplies = Aluminium Foil, Double sided tape, 40mm fan
Heres how I did it with spending less than $10:
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Take a look at the red areas in the picture above, These are the areas (that I believe) are where most of the G3s heat is accumulated.
-I took at least 5 sheets of paper size aluminium foil and I folded and compressed them into a poor man's heatsink about the size of those red areas in the picture.
- After that I was able to snap on the normal backcover with the help of some double sided tape
- Then I put some thermal compound (optional) onto the back cover near the red areas
- Applied 2-3 layers of aluminium foil on top of the thermal compound (or double sided tape)
-Stuck the 40mm on the back cover.
Done, the fan never gets in the way and allows my temps to remain a tad lower.
Let me know if anyone found this interesting so ill post some pics.

Have you tried the CTT MOD (Custom Thermal Throttling)? You have to have ROOT+TWRP installed but it does wonders.
You should definitely try it if throttling really bothers you.

Not sure how effective it is but definitely impressive.

post some pics, thermal compound from pc its ok to the smarphones?

i'd really like to see some pics. this sounds like a great DIY idea for me.

A for effort but this makes no sense . i put in a copper shim and the back never gets hot anymore . all the heat goes to the frame .

Definitely seems rather, coutner intuitive if you ask me.... I can understand putting some sort of 'heat sink' there if it was thin enough, but adding a fan??? That... just completely takes away any and all point to have the phoen be 'slim'. it wont work in 'cases' anymore without cutting a giant hole in the case. It wont fit in some (key word there) docks/car docks. It'll make the phone have a constant 'fan noise' unless you did some magical software tweak that only makes the fan turn on once it hits a certain internal temp... But I doubt that was done. Yea, sure, keeping the phone cool should be a good thing, but this just sounds like one hell of a horrible way to go about it. I do think its awesome that you managed to do it, and it is definitely an interesting way to go about it, but from a practical standpoint, its just obtrusive and inefficient.. As a previous commentor stated, just slip a piece of thin copper or something there and presto, problem solved.
And yea, I'm definitely with you there about the whole 'LG needs to stop being lazy with thermal issues' stuff. I've used many roms in the past with my G3, and I ONLY have a 'heat problem' whenever using roms that are 'close to stock'... which is very annoying... But, most of the time when I'm experiencing such thermal issues, is when I'm in the car and using Torque and Google Maps at the same time. But this is negated thanks to my car's A/C. I just spin the air duct around to face upwards and it blows directly onto the phone and the dock, cooling the phone down considerably.

awesome, ill post some pics once I get a hold of a camera that's not my phone .

My heatsink design, is definitely inefficient, if I had the time and money, I would definitely use better materials. At the time I just did it for fun lol. Thxs for the copper shim idea, I was gonna gravitate towards one of those tiny heatsinks like the ones that are used on the Raspberry Pi, but found it hard to incorporate it in because of the curve plastic.

I didn't even know overheating was a thing on the G3. I've used it pretty heavily, and I've never even felt the slightest bit of warmth. Is this only for certain models? I've got the D850 and you'd think with all the bloatware it'd be likely to heat up even faster. Though it never did on stock, and even now with an international rom it still doesn't. Regardless, that's pretty cool what you did! Never would've thought of it.. Would've been pretty useful on my Nexus 4 though

Frist off sorry for the “enguish”.
I can definitely understand your point, for the majority of “general consumers” who want no frills phone.
But the way I use my “phone” (if you want to describe the device by that small function), tends more towards this device as a true “pocket PC” and because of that I prefer my governor at MAX freq. At that governor I run an multitude of overlays which sum up to using at least ~30%-100% CPU usage FOR WHAT I CONSIDER “CAUSAL USE” (others deff don’t).
In regards to your points on it not even being a portable anymore, I’m trying to work within "reasonable" constraints, and honestly that 40mm fan only adds 10mm of height(that may be too extreme for some but not I). It still fits in my pocket just fine .
The fan currently runs on a slim 1000mah battery and sits underneath the fan (ripped out of battery case).
I can connect the fan to my phone via a 4pin to USB adapter, SO IM CLOSE to FAN PROFILES all I need to do it figure out a way I could vary the voltage output on the G3 (if its possible via the kernel), and then all I need to do is set some custom Tasker strings and BAMB ---> “Fan Profiles”. ---> tbh Still not sure if this can work.
I believe the reason that the G3 has heat issues is not so much in its strict governor (that’s actually supposed to pervert it) but actually its a fundamental fault (or tradeoff) with the G3s thermal design, If you get a chance to see an IFIXIT takedown of the G3, ull see how the (Vol Up/Vol Down + PWD buttons) sort-of choke the 801. I had found some studies comparing temps of various loads among other 801 devices (ill post them once I find them). But I realize the impracticality of the comparison.
And at least for me, most of the AOSP ROMs on my G3 I've flashed I've noticed higher temps ave temps (w/o using it with overlays or anything fancy).
--> Not 100% sure so do call me out im im deff wrong :good:

Citaafox said:
I didn't even know overheating was a thing on the G3. I've used it pretty heavily, and I've never even felt the slightest bit of warmth. Is this only for certain models? I've got the D850 and you'd think with all the bloatware it'd be likely to heat up even faster. Though it never did on stock, and even now with an international rom it still doesn't. Regardless, that's pretty cool what you did! Never would've thought of it.. Would've been pretty useful on my Nexus 4 though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yah see the problem is a lot of people don't realize that their phone is overheating because the plastic(along with the back buttons) does not conduct the heat away from the processor fast enough for most to physical feel the immense heat under the hood, therefore causing the CPU to throttle to a slowdown.
If I wasn't confusing enough, heres an example:
HTC One M9 (Metal body (better conductor of heat)) vs LG G3 (plastic)
The HTC One M9 will feel hotter (and thusly more people realize and complain about heat) but the CPU temps will be relatively lower and thus throttle less vs the G3 "feeling" cooler but the CPU temps run much hotter causing throttling.

Topic title = genius

Pfeffernuss said:
Topic title = genius
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where do you power the fan exactly ?
EDIT:Sorry I was trying to post but I could only reply ,
I still don't get how this forum works completely.

It would be nice to see some pics

WstrKuNoužč said:
Have you tried the CTT MOD (Custom Thermal Throttling)? You have to have ROOT+TWRP installed but it does wonders.
You should definitely try it if throttling really bothers you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which version would you recommend to use? I'm on cloudy g3 1.2 rom
Sent from my LG-D855 using XDA Free mobile app

mab71 said:
Which version would you recommend to use? I'm on cloudy g3 1.2 rom
Sent from my LG-D855 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, i use 75 degree one and it's great. If you think the phone is too hot for you, you could always try 70, 65 or even stock-like 60 degree one.

Image in the OP is broken, just thought I'd let you know. Although I don't get throttling problems. I heavily underclock the CPU to 960 mHz. One thing I have to agree to would heat issues. About 20 minutes of light use and I'm getting temperatures of about 60 degrees Celsius.
Analysed and optimised by LG-D855

Resource for smartwatch makers

THIS IS A RESOURCE FOR SMARTWATCH MAKERS
Northern English pronoun & adverb for nothing is 'Nowt'. The Nowt smartWatch by XDA members.
The corporations won't make a good smartwatch due to greed, smaller firms can't, due to lack resources and software access/rights (more greed by corporations). Crowd funding has repeatedly failed, see Omate TS. Time for a simple revolution ... can XDA members (or the people in general) build a good smartwatch?
Software is one of the biggest issue, but can't a 1000+ committed, devs, electronic engineers, analyst, passionate horologists and very ... very tenacious dreamers attempt it? Starting with finding solutions to the most common issues faced by those who 'have already been there and not quite made it'? If there's one place where the right people are, its here on XDA.
Lots of debates about the issues have been made and forgotten, see the Omate TrueSmart threads and some blogs.
Here's one: http://www.smartwatchgroup.com/overview-smartwatch-industry/
http://www.xda-developers.com/smartwatches-had-no-year-again/ - another one, see @Lokifish Marz comments. Other comments below to start the discussion off . . . .
______________________________________________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
General rules with Chinese Android smartwatches
Broken firmware
Major security holes
Little to no official support (this includes the phone side app)
English (or any other language other than Chinese) for the phone app is very rare
Incomplete source code (when you can even get it) that is a generic build pulled from a phone
Inconsistent battery life due to broken firmware
IP67 is more like IP54 if lucky
Poor build quality and QC by western standards
Not Lokifish supported (I've walked away from the industry as a whole until they get their collective heads out of their butts)
kuronosan's time is limited so fixes may be slow
Depending on your needs and goals. Talk to Ingenic. The HW is a little slow on the Newton (SmartQ Z uses it), not sure about the Newton 2. Either way they have source (Linux, Android, etc). The package is small enough that you could design and build a smartwatch that's about the same size as a real watch, but the display will need a new "crystal" to pull it off nicely. Find a compatible round display, and you should be able to use off the shelf watch cases with minor modifications giving you a 200m diver's smartwatch if you do it right.
*Side note
Even with a 1/2 million buy in for 3000 units we designed ourselves, Umeox still would not have provided source code, and little to no support. That's what the Chinese ODM's are like. kuronosan can verify this.
______________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
JZ4775 supports;
Linux (image and source available from Ingenic)
Android (image and source available from Ingenic)
Wear (Com 1's prototype was running Wear before Google strong armed Com 1 and pretty much killed the company)
_________________________________________
simple1I said:
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to build a decent smartwatch is by 500 (or more) xda members coming together on a project:
- committing our own money.
- Electing a group of experts.
- HARDWARE - building from scratch,
- SOFTWARE - take what's out there and amend it.
- trawling thru members ideas.
- People powered, no management, no profits. Not even kickstarter.
The advantage over all other watches would be the 'no profits', so a good quality long lasting watch could be crafted.
I'll leave it for someone else to post the disadvantages...
____________________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
- You would still need some sort of hierarchy.
- 15-20% net profit cap would still be much lower than the industry and allow for growth.
- HW is not the big issue. SW, case design and source are
- ODMs deal in +1000 unit lots so the "buy in" is very expensive
Let's just say this comes from a been there, tried that perspective minus the xda member support. XDA members were not approached, neither was the public, due to one main reason. Corporations with far more purchasing power and capitol are known for "borrowing". Especially in China.
This is of course off topic so back to Mars I go.
____________________________________________
So . . . the software and stealing ideas and people is an issue, how can we overcome these?

If this goes anywhere I'll contribute, and also see if I can get Watch U Seek involved.
Maybe a WUS/XDA collaborative work smartwatch? If that happened, that alone would have a lot of pull in both the traditional and smartwatch communities.

XDA/WUS watch project
Lokifish Marz said:
If this goes anywhere I'll contribute, and also see if I can get Watch U Seek involved.
Maybe a WUS/XDA collaborative work smartwatch? If that happened, that alone would have a lot of pull in both the traditional and smartwatch communities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those that dont know WatchuSeek is the largest watch forum, @Lokifish Marz - would you like to post a thread on WUS or shall I, its just that you'll receive more attention or I can start it and you can add your support?
CEO of OnePlus, Pete Lau's excellent interview, one former hardware employee of Oppo that made a successfull product in 1.5 years with only five employees. How did they start? With lots & lots of community ideas, we (the XDA community) to a certain extent already have loads of ideas and feedback already, we have learned a lot of the Omate Truesmart watch failure and Lokifish Marz has (i'm sure others too) have already attempted the first iteration, this is all feedback and ideas to base the new watch on.
@E:V:A - you mentioned - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=52695562&postcount=28 -
There are plenty of HW/SW experts who'd have been willing to contribute for free (including myself) to an awesome product, but in hindsight, Omate's primary purpose was clearly to become rich quickly, and not to create or build.
The most important success indicators are:
1) How you handle customer issues
2) How you keep your product's marketing promises
3) How fast you can deliver the product
4) How you get and keep an expert team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you say?

Get as many core points covered as possible (devs and the like), then approach WUS members. I'm still pretty much unknown there (most of my stuff is in the Russian section) but have no issue posting on WUS once HW/SW folks are on board. I suggest this route because traditional watch lovers are a very hard sell and the more flashed out it is, the greater chance of getting folks on board.
Like I've said elsewhere, my ideas at this point are up for grabs so here's a partial list off the top of my head;
PCB and battery same size as display or smaller
Design it as if it's a dial and movement, allowing for greater case variation
1-2mm border between edge of display and case max
Dress = 1 crown, no pushers
Sports = 1 crown, 2 pushers
Diver = same as sports but sealable mic port and functional bezel
42mm or smaller (the big watch thing is starting to go out of style anyways)
Square designs based in iconic square watches
I also personally suggest Acrylic "crystals" on certain models. The may be easier to scratch but near impossible to shatter, and most scratches can be buffed out.
I also suggest playing with the concept of lume in the display itself on certain models. It has some technical hurdles but has a number of advantages. One being that as long as you have a light source (flashlight, etc) you can "recharge" the "secondary passive backlight" (lume) and get a couple hours of night adjusted eyesight visibility without the use of a backlight. The battery savings is obvious.
In response to your list;
Set standards, warranty terms and procedures early and stick to them. Back it up with people that care and know the product first hand
Don't approach the market until a fully functional prototype with all the features exists.
Don't offer it til in a position where all you need to do is send the money to the ODM for production of the final product.
Not sure about the get part but, the team needs to be seen as being a part of the device itself. I even had the idea of using microdots or micro engraving the teams names into the inside of every watch. The physiological reasons are obvious. If there is a pay thing, that's what business planners and accountants are there for.

@Lokifish Marz - I see this will take a lot of planning, I haven't forgotten, I'm thinking things thru.
The most important question is, will this project be for a stand-alone or a notifier? This will determined what support we'll get form the community.

Greetings,
I am a senior Electrical Engineer with 9 year experience and I do PCB design for a living. I am interested in helping this project. To start with, we need a list of what we want / need in the design, a wish list. From there we can put together a plan for building the circuit board, the specifications document. Let me know if you can use me. I do have access to PCB layout and design tools, and experience using them.

As long as you dont mind MIPS android, you could use the M200, from igenic. They provide Android or linux based sources, and the newton2 dev chip is cheap, $100.
Edit: I forgot to add: 1.2 gHz plus a low power core, along with active voice recognition.

If you get this off the ground, I will help with UI, concept, and clock design and offer any other assistance I can provide.

I know we don't have enough support at the moment, but can we start with some ideas based on past experiences.
Standalone like the InWatch Z or a notifier like the Qualcomm Toq? Both of these examples are best thing we have to a decent attempt at a smartwatch.
Should we build a notifier or a Standalone? Or like the LG Urbane both.
One idea I've been thinking about, would a color screen like the new Pebble Time work with Android? I don't think it would handle video, the battery life would be an advantage.

I don't think a standalone device is really practical as a first try. I believe there are regulations in the EU and US, regarding basebands and IMEIs, that the small Chinese companies just ignore. Also, if you are thinking of using off-the-shelf cases then getting decent reception for phone antenna becomes a big problem and using a special strap for it, as some manufacturers do, would not be an option.
As someone who has been wearing a Mimi mi-w3 for the last few months I would never again consider a watch that doesn't have an always on, sunlight readable screen and I suspect that may well be true for many other people. Perhaps you could put together some kind of poll or survey?

Pseud O'Nym said:
I don't think a standalone device is really practical as a first try. I believe there are regulations in the EU and US, regarding basebands and IMEIs, that the small Chinese companies just ignore. Also, if you are thinking of using off-the-shelf cases then getting decent reception for phone antenna becomes a big problem and using a special strap for it, as some manufacturers do, would not be an option.
As someone who has been wearing a Mimi mi-w3 for the last few months I would never again consider a watch that doesn't have an always on, sunlight readable screen and I suspect that may well be true for many other people. Perhaps you could put together some kind of poll or survey?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're 100% right about the W3. It would really be hard to go back to a watch that was unreadable out doors.

chainsol said:
As long as you dont mind MIPS android, you could use the M200, from igenic. They provide Android or linux based sources, and the newton2 dev chip is cheap, $100.
Edit: I forgot to add: 1.2 gHz plus a low power core, along with active voice recognition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ingenic has been at the top of my list for some time for those very reasons.
simple1i said:
Should we build a notifier or a Standalone? Or like the LG Urbane both.
One idea I've been thinking about, would a color screen like the new Pebble Time work with Android? I don't think it would handle video, the battery life would be an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Companion should be first. The display is a preference thing. I don't like E-Ink due to it's low ppi, poor refresh rates and ghosting. A smooth UI will require something else. I still think transflectives are the way to go for a number of reasons, and a black transflective (Sony SW2) is better than silver (inWatch). I still have yet to play with the secondary backlight but will as soon as I figure out what smartwatch to sacrifice to test it.
I saw your post about a case in another thread. The problem with most smartwatch cases is they are not designed to the same standards as a traditional case. There are also far more watch case manufacturers than smartwatch case manufacturers due to smartwatches being completely in-house. That allows for more base variations and most likely lower costs.
Off topic- Latest watch project. Original on the left, finished mod on the right.

Standalone
Remember for standalone: we'd have to go through all of the certifications for connections in the us, and for Android in general, to have google apps, we'd have to pay for inspection: 25 to 75k.

chainsol said:
Remember for standalone: we'd have to go through all of the certifications for connections in the us, and for Android in general, to have google apps, we'd have to pay for inspection: 25 to 75k.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Straight Android = No official certification, ever.
Wear = Google partners only.
Linux = No limitations, but it has to be a truly complete package.

Lokifish Marz said:
Straight Android = No official certification, ever.
Wear = Google partners only.
Linux = No limitations, but it has to be a truly complete package.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha, I misread an article slightly, we'd be using a pretty standard version of Android, with no competition to Google, so you are absolutely right.

Watch size and case design
Case sizing
Something often ignored in the smartwatch world is proper case sizes. It's almost as if they are betting that the recent (past 5-10 years) over sized watch fad continues so they can ignore what is considered proper watch sizing. Speak with any watchmaker or jeweler with a reputation for quality and you will get some very simple rules.
A proper fitting watch should never be wider than your wrist. The strap should also never droop over the wrist. Apparently smartwatch makers never got that 100 year old memo;
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Now there is a simple guide to proper sizing that many in the watch community agree on. It's called the the "Golden Ratio". The golden ratio is probably one of the most common seen ratios seen in the world. Architects, painters, car designers, and even nature uses it.
Now there cannot be a one size fits all of course, but you can get close. First one has to take into account certain commonalities in wrist sizes. The average man's wrist is about 7.5 inches in diameter, and the average woman's wrist is around 6 inches. A 40mm case diameter it puts you in between too large for women with small wrists, and too small for men with larger wrists. Additionally, if you look at the entire Rolex large unisex collection, it averages out to about 40mm. Other quality/luxury brands are also about the same.
At 40mm diameter it puts the near ideal display size at 31-33mm in diameter, or 1.2-1.3in . This allows for a Sports and Diver's model with functional bezel while giving enough leeway for a slightly smaller "dress" watch. Another factor in case design is the case/bezel to crystal ratio.
Bezel to display ratio
Dress/Formal
On most dress/formal watches they have a case/bezel to crystal ratio of about 1:0.937. This means the display diameter is 93% that of the case/bezel diameter. This allows for two things. Larger display or smaller case. Traditionally, dress/formal watches are smaller in size so I suggest a smaller case for this group.
Sports/Diver's
Here that average ratio is 1:0.8, or 80%. This gives a bezel that is not too fat or too thin while retaining enough width for markings.
Display resolution
240x240 and 320x320 are a little short on ppi. 400x400 is slowly coming available which puts a 1.2-1.3in display over the 300ppi mark should a source for such a size be found. This also puts the display at Nexus 4/iPhone 5 level of detail.
Square vs Round
Square smartwatches are often referred to as "not a watch" by the uninitiated. This is of course very far from the truth. Some of the generally agreed upon iconic watches are square. Part of the issue with smartwatches is an attractive square design is difficult. A perfect square is unpleasant to the eye but the wasted space around square displays is equally unpleasant. There is also the issue of orientation of rectangular displays. Most are horizontal which leads to a "fat watch" look. If square displays are to be used then a taper at the top and bottom should be used or a minimalist design. Here's some examples;
Tapered (tapered poses an issue with overall length being too great unless smaller displays are used)
Minimalist (even with lugs this can be a very attractive design)
(This is all based on a ton of research, informed smartwatch users complaints, and traditional watch users complaints, with a dash of personal opinion for flavor.)
EDIT:
Something to investigate. If a more suitable size can be found with a decent capacity or even custom size.

It's easier to go companion and add features than standalone and add companion.

In terms of open-source smartwatch,there is an important development going on here!
Check the github repo, it's almost ready!

First a watch...
So as long as we don't have huge opposition (which is unlikely) it's agreed then, we'll build a companion watch.
But like most 'everyday watch' it needs lots of functions that make it a good watch first, that can also do excellent notifications. My backup & most trusted watch is a Casio Protek, it just works all the time . . . can't really afford a Rolex, which also 'always works' too with greater style & class. But I must say as classless as a Casio may be to some, its like a Toyota, not much to look at, but reliable. No offence to anyone, I have both.
By a good watch, I mean stylish, durable with enough functions that it can be used/worn without a phone, as a time peice, as a sports aid with lots of sensors to make it alive. So in a matter of speaking it needs to be a like a standalone minus the SIM.
Still lots of discussion about the hardware is needed, but we really need to also start a serious and challenging discussion about the software/OS, here's where most smartwatch' fail, however we have a huge pool of talent on XDA. I intentionally haven't posted any announcement on the other (Sony, Samsung, Pebble) forums, because we need to get some general idea for the software first then get others to help develop those ideas, else we'll might be flooded with too many suggestions.
So software?
Web OS, no or no? [emoji51]
Wear is a no & can't
Linux was mentioned...?

Linux for the Ingenic is available and GPL compliance should not be an issue. Would be a foundation and up build which is more difficult, but could be tailored specifically to our needs unlike Android or Wear.
WebOS has a lot of potential and is open source as well but HW specific source may not be available for Ingenic. That requires somebody very familiar with WebOS to work with Ingenic on building it. Again, compliance should not be an issue.
NucleusOS may be an option but not sure if they have an Ingenic build and full GPL compliance may be an issue.
Anybody here familiar with what going on the BSD side of things? I ask because GPLv2 and GPLv3 are not compatible with each other and allows for proprietary code to be withheld. BSD licenses are more a "as long as you give me credit" type setup and is far more open/flexible than GPL.
If I missed anything let me know.