THIS IS A RESOURCE FOR SMARTWATCH MAKERS
Northern English pronoun & adverb for nothing is 'Nowt'. The Nowt smartWatch by XDA members.
The corporations won't make a good smartwatch due to greed, smaller firms can't, due to lack resources and software access/rights (more greed by corporations). Crowd funding has repeatedly failed, see Omate TS. Time for a simple revolution ... can XDA members (or the people in general) build a good smartwatch?
Software is one of the biggest issue, but can't a 1000+ committed, devs, electronic engineers, analyst, passionate horologists and very ... very tenacious dreamers attempt it? Starting with finding solutions to the most common issues faced by those who 'have already been there and not quite made it'? If there's one place where the right people are, its here on XDA.
Lots of debates about the issues have been made and forgotten, see the Omate TrueSmart threads and some blogs.
Here's one: http://www.smartwatchgroup.com/overview-smartwatch-industry/
http://www.xda-developers.com/smartwatches-had-no-year-again/ - another one, see @Lokifish Marz comments. Other comments below to start the discussion off . . . .
______________________________________________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
General rules with Chinese Android smartwatches
Broken firmware
Major security holes
Little to no official support (this includes the phone side app)
English (or any other language other than Chinese) for the phone app is very rare
Incomplete source code (when you can even get it) that is a generic build pulled from a phone
Inconsistent battery life due to broken firmware
IP67 is more like IP54 if lucky
Poor build quality and QC by western standards
Not Lokifish supported (I've walked away from the industry as a whole until they get their collective heads out of their butts)
kuronosan's time is limited so fixes may be slow
Depending on your needs and goals. Talk to Ingenic. The HW is a little slow on the Newton (SmartQ Z uses it), not sure about the Newton 2. Either way they have source (Linux, Android, etc). The package is small enough that you could design and build a smartwatch that's about the same size as a real watch, but the display will need a new "crystal" to pull it off nicely. Find a compatible round display, and you should be able to use off the shelf watch cases with minor modifications giving you a 200m diver's smartwatch if you do it right.
*Side note
Even with a 1/2 million buy in for 3000 units we designed ourselves, Umeox still would not have provided source code, and little to no support. That's what the Chinese ODM's are like. kuronosan can verify this.
______________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
JZ4775 supports;
Linux (image and source available from Ingenic)
Android (image and source available from Ingenic)
Wear (Com 1's prototype was running Wear before Google strong armed Com 1 and pretty much killed the company)
_________________________________________
simple1I said:
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to build a decent smartwatch is by 500 (or more) xda members coming together on a project:
- committing our own money.
- Electing a group of experts.
- HARDWARE - building from scratch,
- SOFTWARE - take what's out there and amend it.
- trawling thru members ideas.
- People powered, no management, no profits. Not even kickstarter.
The advantage over all other watches would be the 'no profits', so a good quality long lasting watch could be crafted.
I'll leave it for someone else to post the disadvantages...
____________________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
- You would still need some sort of hierarchy.
- 15-20% net profit cap would still be much lower than the industry and allow for growth.
- HW is not the big issue. SW, case design and source are
- ODMs deal in +1000 unit lots so the "buy in" is very expensive
Let's just say this comes from a been there, tried that perspective minus the xda member support. XDA members were not approached, neither was the public, due to one main reason. Corporations with far more purchasing power and capitol are known for "borrowing". Especially in China.
This is of course off topic so back to Mars I go.
____________________________________________
So . . . the software and stealing ideas and people is an issue, how can we overcome these?
If this goes anywhere I'll contribute, and also see if I can get Watch U Seek involved.
Maybe a WUS/XDA collaborative work smartwatch? If that happened, that alone would have a lot of pull in both the traditional and smartwatch communities.
XDA/WUS watch project
Lokifish Marz said:
If this goes anywhere I'll contribute, and also see if I can get Watch U Seek involved.
Maybe a WUS/XDA collaborative work smartwatch? If that happened, that alone would have a lot of pull in both the traditional and smartwatch communities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those that dont know WatchuSeek is the largest watch forum, @Lokifish Marz - would you like to post a thread on WUS or shall I, its just that you'll receive more attention or I can start it and you can add your support?
CEO of OnePlus, Pete Lau's excellent interview, one former hardware employee of Oppo that made a successfull product in 1.5 years with only five employees. How did they start? With lots & lots of community ideas, we (the XDA community) to a certain extent already have loads of ideas and feedback already, we have learned a lot of the Omate Truesmart watch failure and Lokifish Marz has (i'm sure others too) have already attempted the first iteration, this is all feedback and ideas to base the new watch on.
@E:V:A - you mentioned - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=52695562&postcount=28 -
There are plenty of HW/SW experts who'd have been willing to contribute for free (including myself) to an awesome product, but in hindsight, Omate's primary purpose was clearly to become rich quickly, and not to create or build.
The most important success indicators are:
1) How you handle customer issues
2) How you keep your product's marketing promises
3) How fast you can deliver the product
4) How you get and keep an expert team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you say?
Get as many core points covered as possible (devs and the like), then approach WUS members. I'm still pretty much unknown there (most of my stuff is in the Russian section) but have no issue posting on WUS once HW/SW folks are on board. I suggest this route because traditional watch lovers are a very hard sell and the more flashed out it is, the greater chance of getting folks on board.
Like I've said elsewhere, my ideas at this point are up for grabs so here's a partial list off the top of my head;
PCB and battery same size as display or smaller
Design it as if it's a dial and movement, allowing for greater case variation
1-2mm border between edge of display and case max
Dress = 1 crown, no pushers
Sports = 1 crown, 2 pushers
Diver = same as sports but sealable mic port and functional bezel
42mm or smaller (the big watch thing is starting to go out of style anyways)
Square designs based in iconic square watches
I also personally suggest Acrylic "crystals" on certain models. The may be easier to scratch but near impossible to shatter, and most scratches can be buffed out.
I also suggest playing with the concept of lume in the display itself on certain models. It has some technical hurdles but has a number of advantages. One being that as long as you have a light source (flashlight, etc) you can "recharge" the "secondary passive backlight" (lume) and get a couple hours of night adjusted eyesight visibility without the use of a backlight. The battery savings is obvious.
In response to your list;
Set standards, warranty terms and procedures early and stick to them. Back it up with people that care and know the product first hand
Don't approach the market until a fully functional prototype with all the features exists.
Don't offer it til in a position where all you need to do is send the money to the ODM for production of the final product.
Not sure about the get part but, the team needs to be seen as being a part of the device itself. I even had the idea of using microdots or micro engraving the teams names into the inside of every watch. The physiological reasons are obvious. If there is a pay thing, that's what business planners and accountants are there for.
@Lokifish Marz - I see this will take a lot of planning, I haven't forgotten, I'm thinking things thru.
The most important question is, will this project be for a stand-alone or a notifier? This will determined what support we'll get form the community.
Greetings,
I am a senior Electrical Engineer with 9 year experience and I do PCB design for a living. I am interested in helping this project. To start with, we need a list of what we want / need in the design, a wish list. From there we can put together a plan for building the circuit board, the specifications document. Let me know if you can use me. I do have access to PCB layout and design tools, and experience using them.
As long as you dont mind MIPS android, you could use the M200, from igenic. They provide Android or linux based sources, and the newton2 dev chip is cheap, $100.
Edit: I forgot to add: 1.2 gHz plus a low power core, along with active voice recognition.
If you get this off the ground, I will help with UI, concept, and clock design and offer any other assistance I can provide.
I know we don't have enough support at the moment, but can we start with some ideas based on past experiences.
Standalone like the InWatch Z or a notifier like the Qualcomm Toq? Both of these examples are best thing we have to a decent attempt at a smartwatch.
Should we build a notifier or a Standalone? Or like the LG Urbane both.
One idea I've been thinking about, would a color screen like the new Pebble Time work with Android? I don't think it would handle video, the battery life would be an advantage.
I don't think a standalone device is really practical as a first try. I believe there are regulations in the EU and US, regarding basebands and IMEIs, that the small Chinese companies just ignore. Also, if you are thinking of using off-the-shelf cases then getting decent reception for phone antenna becomes a big problem and using a special strap for it, as some manufacturers do, would not be an option.
As someone who has been wearing a Mimi mi-w3 for the last few months I would never again consider a watch that doesn't have an always on, sunlight readable screen and I suspect that may well be true for many other people. Perhaps you could put together some kind of poll or survey?
Pseud O'Nym said:
I don't think a standalone device is really practical as a first try. I believe there are regulations in the EU and US, regarding basebands and IMEIs, that the small Chinese companies just ignore. Also, if you are thinking of using off-the-shelf cases then getting decent reception for phone antenna becomes a big problem and using a special strap for it, as some manufacturers do, would not be an option.
As someone who has been wearing a Mimi mi-w3 for the last few months I would never again consider a watch that doesn't have an always on, sunlight readable screen and I suspect that may well be true for many other people. Perhaps you could put together some kind of poll or survey?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're 100% right about the W3. It would really be hard to go back to a watch that was unreadable out doors.
chainsol said:
As long as you dont mind MIPS android, you could use the M200, from igenic. They provide Android or linux based sources, and the newton2 dev chip is cheap, $100.
Edit: I forgot to add: 1.2 gHz plus a low power core, along with active voice recognition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ingenic has been at the top of my list for some time for those very reasons.
simple1i said:
Should we build a notifier or a Standalone? Or like the LG Urbane both.
One idea I've been thinking about, would a color screen like the new Pebble Time work with Android? I don't think it would handle video, the battery life would be an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Companion should be first. The display is a preference thing. I don't like E-Ink due to it's low ppi, poor refresh rates and ghosting. A smooth UI will require something else. I still think transflectives are the way to go for a number of reasons, and a black transflective (Sony SW2) is better than silver (inWatch). I still have yet to play with the secondary backlight but will as soon as I figure out what smartwatch to sacrifice to test it.
I saw your post about a case in another thread. The problem with most smartwatch cases is they are not designed to the same standards as a traditional case. There are also far more watch case manufacturers than smartwatch case manufacturers due to smartwatches being completely in-house. That allows for more base variations and most likely lower costs.
Off topic- Latest watch project. Original on the left, finished mod on the right.
Standalone
Remember for standalone: we'd have to go through all of the certifications for connections in the us, and for Android in general, to have google apps, we'd have to pay for inspection: 25 to 75k.
chainsol said:
Remember for standalone: we'd have to go through all of the certifications for connections in the us, and for Android in general, to have google apps, we'd have to pay for inspection: 25 to 75k.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Straight Android = No official certification, ever.
Wear = Google partners only.
Linux = No limitations, but it has to be a truly complete package.
Lokifish Marz said:
Straight Android = No official certification, ever.
Wear = Google partners only.
Linux = No limitations, but it has to be a truly complete package.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha, I misread an article slightly, we'd be using a pretty standard version of Android, with no competition to Google, so you are absolutely right.
Watch size and case design
Case sizing
Something often ignored in the smartwatch world is proper case sizes. It's almost as if they are betting that the recent (past 5-10 years) over sized watch fad continues so they can ignore what is considered proper watch sizing. Speak with any watchmaker or jeweler with a reputation for quality and you will get some very simple rules.
A proper fitting watch should never be wider than your wrist. The strap should also never droop over the wrist. Apparently smartwatch makers never got that 100 year old memo;
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Now there is a simple guide to proper sizing that many in the watch community agree on. It's called the the "Golden Ratio". The golden ratio is probably one of the most common seen ratios seen in the world. Architects, painters, car designers, and even nature uses it.
Now there cannot be a one size fits all of course, but you can get close. First one has to take into account certain commonalities in wrist sizes. The average man's wrist is about 7.5 inches in diameter, and the average woman's wrist is around 6 inches. A 40mm case diameter it puts you in between too large for women with small wrists, and too small for men with larger wrists. Additionally, if you look at the entire Rolex large unisex collection, it averages out to about 40mm. Other quality/luxury brands are also about the same.
At 40mm diameter it puts the near ideal display size at 31-33mm in diameter, or 1.2-1.3in . This allows for a Sports and Diver's model with functional bezel while giving enough leeway for a slightly smaller "dress" watch. Another factor in case design is the case/bezel to crystal ratio.
Bezel to display ratio
Dress/Formal
On most dress/formal watches they have a case/bezel to crystal ratio of about 1:0.937. This means the display diameter is 93% that of the case/bezel diameter. This allows for two things. Larger display or smaller case. Traditionally, dress/formal watches are smaller in size so I suggest a smaller case for this group.
Sports/Diver's
Here that average ratio is 1:0.8, or 80%. This gives a bezel that is not too fat or too thin while retaining enough width for markings.
Display resolution
240x240 and 320x320 are a little short on ppi. 400x400 is slowly coming available which puts a 1.2-1.3in display over the 300ppi mark should a source for such a size be found. This also puts the display at Nexus 4/iPhone 5 level of detail.
Square vs Round
Square smartwatches are often referred to as "not a watch" by the uninitiated. This is of course very far from the truth. Some of the generally agreed upon iconic watches are square. Part of the issue with smartwatches is an attractive square design is difficult. A perfect square is unpleasant to the eye but the wasted space around square displays is equally unpleasant. There is also the issue of orientation of rectangular displays. Most are horizontal which leads to a "fat watch" look. If square displays are to be used then a taper at the top and bottom should be used or a minimalist design. Here's some examples;
Tapered (tapered poses an issue with overall length being too great unless smaller displays are used)
Minimalist (even with lugs this can be a very attractive design)
(This is all based on a ton of research, informed smartwatch users complaints, and traditional watch users complaints, with a dash of personal opinion for flavor.)
EDIT:
Something to investigate. If a more suitable size can be found with a decent capacity or even custom size.
It's easier to go companion and add features than standalone and add companion.
In terms of open-source smartwatch,there is an important development going on here!
Check the github repo, it's almost ready!
First a watch...
So as long as we don't have huge opposition (which is unlikely) it's agreed then, we'll build a companion watch.
But like most 'everyday watch' it needs lots of functions that make it a good watch first, that can also do excellent notifications. My backup & most trusted watch is a Casio Protek, it just works all the time . . . can't really afford a Rolex, which also 'always works' too with greater style & class. But I must say as classless as a Casio may be to some, its like a Toyota, not much to look at, but reliable. No offence to anyone, I have both.
By a good watch, I mean stylish, durable with enough functions that it can be used/worn without a phone, as a time peice, as a sports aid with lots of sensors to make it alive. So in a matter of speaking it needs to be a like a standalone minus the SIM.
Still lots of discussion about the hardware is needed, but we really need to also start a serious and challenging discussion about the software/OS, here's where most smartwatch' fail, however we have a huge pool of talent on XDA. I intentionally haven't posted any announcement on the other (Sony, Samsung, Pebble) forums, because we need to get some general idea for the software first then get others to help develop those ideas, else we'll might be flooded with too many suggestions.
So software?
Web OS, no or no? [emoji51]
Wear is a no & can't
Linux was mentioned...?
Linux for the Ingenic is available and GPL compliance should not be an issue. Would be a foundation and up build which is more difficult, but could be tailored specifically to our needs unlike Android or Wear.
WebOS has a lot of potential and is open source as well but HW specific source may not be available for Ingenic. That requires somebody very familiar with WebOS to work with Ingenic on building it. Again, compliance should not be an issue.
NucleusOS may be an option but not sure if they have an Ingenic build and full GPL compliance may be an issue.
Anybody here familiar with what going on the BSD side of things? I ask because GPLv2 and GPLv3 are not compatible with each other and allows for proprietary code to be withheld. BSD licenses are more a "as long as you give me credit" type setup and is far more open/flexible than GPL.
If I missed anything let me know.
Related
This is just so unfair.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbsmHMAhrQ&feature=player_embedded
Uhhhmm... Why?
what is so unfair?
it works and does the same as the phone version, just bigger
Maybe he meant unfair because we cant get a decent FW for our phones because Samsung is focusing on the tablet.
It is really a strange feeling. Besides the size difference, I caught myself with envy that my phone could do the same thing, just being smaller.
But in fact it can't, because we never get the software.
Paulo
so what.. remember it has drawbacks too..
1. propriatary adapter instead of true hd socket.
2. no removeable replaceable battery..i like having spare batteries ready.
3. strange resolutin 1024x600
4. no super oled screen. .supposedly bad viewing angle support.
5. expensive.. will see price when carriers pick it up
there's a bigger chance i'll pick up one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44673
instead of the Tab, just because of price/size matters
it might not be as good as the Tab, and not even close to our phone, but it's great for size and compatibility to runt he same apps we run on our phones at a larger screen
I think of it as a really good backup of my stuff on the SGS phone, in case crap happens and i need to restore all the info back quickly
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Operating System: Google Android 2.1
Processor: Telechips TCC8902
CPU Frequency: 720MHz ARM11
Ram: 256M DDR2 RAM
Flash: 2GB
External memory: Support micro SD/TF card up to 32GB
Display: 7" TFT LCD with resistance screen touch
Resolution: WVGA 800*480-pixel resolution
Touch Control: Full size touch operation, sliding menu, functional icon dragging
Orientation Sensors: With accelerometer, automatic steering display screen
Network: IEEE802.11b/g Wi-Fi network connection
Camera: Built-in 300K Pixels camera
Microphone: Built-in
Speaker: Built-in 1 speaker
Slots: 1 * TF card (support up to 32G)
1 * 3.5mm earphone
1 * Mini USB
1 * HDMI Out (support 1080P HDMI TV out)
1 * Power supply
Support Video Formats: MPEG1/MPEG2/WMV9/MPEG4-SP/ASF/DIVX/H.263/H.264/RMVB/MOV/MKV/TS/FLV
Support Audio Formats: WMA/MP3/WAV/OOG/AAC/EAAC
Support Picture Formats: JPG/GIF/BMP/PNG
Language: Support for display of multiple languages and characters simultaneously
Battery: Built-in 3000mAh Lithium battery (manufacturer rated)
Input/Output Adapter: Input: 100-240V (EU plug)
Accessories: 1 * AC power adapter
1 * Stylus
1 * USB host cable
1 * English user manual
Manufacturer's Warranty: - 12 Months excluding physical damages (see specifications for terms and details)
Specifications
Dimensions: 7.17 in x 4.53 in x 0.59 in (18.2 cm x 11.5 cm x 1.5 cm)
Weight: 12.03 oz (341 g)
ppeccin said:
Maybe he meant unfair because we cant get a decent FW for our phones because Samsung is focusing on the tablet.
It is really a strange feeling. Besides the size difference, I caught myself with envy that my phone could do the same thing, just being smaller.
But in fact it can't, because we never get the software.
Paulo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alot of companies do this type of tatic of focuing all materials and personale on a new product development. i dont believe samsung does this and tries to allocate its resources equally....
These pure tablet PC's are the most overrated technology ever anyway..
Hybrids such as the Lenovo Ideapad U1 make more sense, because touchscreens don't provide good enough feedback for typing. I understand that pure touchscreen-exclusive tablets seem cool, but they are actually a step back in productivity, and ergonomics. And only a company which makes a puck mouse seem cool (and in reality, focuses on irrelevant design issues rather than real ones) could bring these into fashion..
Don't waste money on them, until they can at least modify the shape of the touch screen panel to provide proper tactile feedback (ie, surface changes or lumps).
Instead, just get a netbook or a convertible tablet...
the problem with Laptops/Tablets is the weight and poor battery life compared to the tablets
i have a laptop, and it sits at home 90% of the time because of that
instead my SGS has almost replace my laptop entirely, just missing a mouse and keyboard, then i'll be set
looking forward to Froyo, which already confirmed support for BT mouse+keyboards, yay!
I'm sorry, Allgamer, but I have to ask, why are you pushing the SGS so hard?
1) 2 weeks ago, you were claiming that you were a power user, who had to swap your mobile phone batteries once a day, you have a BT headset, which you probably need to charge once a day, and now, a bluetooth keyboard you'll need to charge every 2 or 3 days too? You have a problem with Hybrid battery life (of 5 to 8 hours), but no problems shutting down your mobile to swap batteries constantly?
2) We both know the SGS is awkward to hold (and hurts your wrist after a while), and you can't really lay it down on the table.
3) You complain about the weight, but, the U1 tablet weighs 700gm and the entire hybrid weighs 1.7kg. My CCNA book weighs 1.6 KG as reference. You are in your 20's I thought, and you are already having trouble carrying a book?
4) Power users need productivity, and the SGS is TOTALLY inefficient. One problem is screen size, which makes it difficult to perform many tasks efficiently.
Sorry, but your comments are certainly starting to raise red-flags. By the sounds of things, you either aren't being honest to yourself, are exaggerating your use as a power user, or are trying to make things difficult for yourself.
Tablets don't entirely make sense, but they do as convertible hybrids.. Smartphones make sense for some things, but I have serious trouble believing that "power users" are best suited to using a mobile.
Too big for my pocket. And if I can take that with me, I also can take my netbook.
It's not much bigger...
For gaming+TV it would rock. There is no TV-tuner built in?
Also I need possibilities to run openoffice on it, so I can use it for presentations...
rdenis said:
Finally someone called out this moron for his load of BS he keeps spewing - I'm guessing he's about 14 and gets beat up a lot..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say that..
But it's the same effect I saw when selling Apple equipment. People become so involved with their devices, that they begin to take an unrealistic look at how good they REALLY are. Apple Mac Pro's are the perfect example.
* In general, the video cards being sold with the Mac Pro's are generations behind those available on PC's. But people love them.
* Some people also LOVED the Apple might mouse, despite the right button being near-impossible to click successfully, because they didn't realise the competition allowed scrolling left and right too.
* Over time, all OSX users seemed to have convinced themselves that Windows crashed every day (even if iPhoto was crashing right in front of them).
*It's the same effect which has convinced Linux users that UAC is more intrusive than PolicyKit (it's actually the opposite).
Either way, the tablet seems targeted at the gimmicky crowd. Their main benefit is casual browsing, and watching movies. But lets face it, touchscreens are still HORRIBLE for typing, and most of us would like to be able to chat to someone whilst watching a movie.
But that's just my thoughts.. Time will tell, but you can't fix the ergonomics issues with tablets, until they are at least bendable, the pixels on the screen can displace themselves forward or backwards (or simply change smooth to rough) or have a perfectly polished neural interface (but neural interfaces are still under heavy development)
Speaking of which... what happened to the flexible display I read about a prototype a year or two ago?
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
1- i still do and i always carry a spare battery with me when i go out, that's how often i use the SGS phone, and i keep an extra spare in the car, for when the one i have runs out, and i need another spare to keep with me.
the BT headset doesn't get charge every day, battery life is quite good, only gets charge once every week or two depending on usage, i use the phone for online activities not for yapping
BT keyboard is just a convenient for typing faster, they are foldable, it shrinks down to a pda size, still fits in a pocket, they existed since the Palm times, what's what made the BT keyboard popular, battery life depend on how much you type on it. you won't be charging a BT keyboard as often as you would charge a BT headset.
2- no idea how you are holding it, but it works just the same, for typing with the on screen keyboard it's pretty natural, i even do it one handed when i'm busy with a drink on the other hand, it's not as quick as when you type with both thumbs, but it's doable for SMS and IM, definitely you wont want to type a long email with a single thumb
holding the phone for voice call will just be natural as well, like using any other phone, the only thing that bugs me is the proximity sensor, as it takes a split second to go back to the dialing pad screen, before you can switch to another application to look up for information meanwhile chatting with the customer
3- yes because i don't like to travel with bags, it has nothing to do with lifting weight it's just ruins the look of your shirt, it shifts the shirt to a side with the weight and it doesn't look good, you don't want to hang out with a lady or partying with buddies carrying a laptop/ipad/tablet around is just trouble (it can get beer in it, it can get stolen if you leave it on the side of the restaurant/bar/anyplace, you might forget it if the meeting is going so well and having too much fun, ladies will look at you like a geek, some nicer restaurant will throw you a bad eye for pulling out a laptop on the table, you go to a cinema with a laptop and pull it out they'll automatically think you are going to capture the movie, been there done that, not fun, it was totally stupid if you ask me, since when you can get a decent recording out of a laptop webcam? LOL )
all of that aside, when you pull out an iphone or the SGS, no one will complain to you, instead people would say WOW! can i see that, can i do this, can i play that, can i... you get the idea, it's totally 2 side of the spectrum
That's what Apple is selling, and that's what people like, non geeky devices that works, and Samsung is just riding the same wave.
Personally i don't care, i just want a device that is better than Windows crapile, and the combination of Samsung hardware + Android OS have done that for me.
If PalmOS was still around on a phone similar to SGS i'd have gone the PalmOS way instead, as the OS is much more polished, still buggy, but there are tons of Apps for it... too bad the company went under bought by HP, and trashed to the pages of history.
4- for me productivity means being able to get online and log on to servers anywhere i'm in, for documents we got ThinkFreeOffice which is sufficient for me, and i was able to convert my old Palm Doc To Go office to the Android version of Doc To Go. with the SGS i can hookup to all my different companies accounts (15+), and they will all each keep their own separate contact list, in Wincrap mobile it would have been a major mess, you can't have both personal and work accounts together, now that's efficiency for me.
same goes with IM, i can be online with all my email accounts and people can contact me all over, it's so easy, in Wincrap i had to use those jabber IMs to do the same and it was always disconnecting because it goes through jabber and it's not stable enough to make IM conversation a good experience as people always said i was offline when i was not.
Since i switched to SGS using the stock push email & IM, i've not had any problem, all my customers are happy, and when customers are happy, i'm happy.
Typing is decent with SGS, it can be better with a BT keyboard, too bad i can't use it yet until Froyo is out.
Browsing speed is amazing, i can look up stuff instantly, this is a great topic when having a coffe with friends and customers, i'm a forgetful person i depend on a reliable PDA for my work, so it's amazing for people when they see i can jump back and forth between apps in the phone to look up about the stuff i forget during our conversations and then continue with the meeting.
It is just so natural this phone, compared to all previous ones. the best thing is, it's small, it can go anywhere, even under water if you put it on one of those waterproof bags for PDAs available on DX
If being able to do everything you need to do at anywhere and at anytime is not efficient for you, then i don't know what is, but for me that is exactly the type of device i need to do my work, and hobby, and entertainment, and picture, and recording, and specially the GPS as i use it every day while i drive, my Speedo in the car is broken.
was trying to install some custom mods to the car and screwed up the speedo needle fuel tank needle is dead as well, good think it lights up when it runs low in gas.
All in all you don't need to believe me, but that is truly how magnificent this phone works for people that knows how to use it.
I give free lesson and consulting on how to use it and get the most out of it and people love it, as usual I'll extend my hand for anyone that needs help with the phone in the GTA area, just PM me to book for an appointment.
i carry the XDA App anyways, i use it all the time to check my PMs and forum topics when i'm idle
andrewluecke said:
I'm sorry, Allgamer, but I have to ask, why are you pushing the SGS so hard?
1) 2 weeks ago, you were claiming that you were a power user, who had to swap your mobile phone batteries once a day, you have a BT headset, which you probably need to charge once a day, and now, a bluetooth keyboard you'll need to charge every 2 or 3 days too? You have a problem with Hybrid battery life (of 5 to 8 hours), but no problems shutting down your mobile to swap batteries constantly?
2) We both know the SGS is awkward to hold (and hurts your wrist after a while), and you can't really lay it down on the table.
3) You complain about the weight, but, the U1 tablet weighs 700gm and the entire hybrid weighs 1.7kg. My CCNA book weighs 1.6 KG as reference. You are in your 20's I thought, and you are already having trouble carrying a book?
4) Power users need productivity, and the SGS is TOTALLY inefficient. One problem is screen size, which makes it difficult to perform many tasks efficiently.
Sorry, but your comments are certainly starting to raise red-flags. By the sounds of things, you either aren't being honest to yourself, are exaggerating your use as a power user, or are trying to make things difficult for yourself.
Tablets don't entirely make sense, but they do as convertible hybrids.. Smartphones make sense for some things, but I have serious trouble believing that "power users" are best suited to using a mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have spare batteries too.. one i leave at work in case i forget.. i also use the external wall chargers.. the onese that go from purple to blue when charged... i have a couple of the g9 batteries i got from the samsung website and find they work even better than the g7 batteries..
I'll probably stick to my SGS and HP Elitebook 2730 tablet for when I need a larger display. With the extra battery slice on the latter I can easily rival the IPad's battery life yet do a heck of a lot more. It is heavier but I don't mind.
Given that Google says Froyo isn't designed for tablet use I'll probably hold off on the Tab either way though.
____________
Any typos or other oddities in this post are brought to you by the letters G & T, the number 9000, and Swype.
funkeh said:
I've been browsing this forum for a little while now and found AllGamers threads very helpful indeed and it hasn't cost me a penny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's usually a major thing i keep in mind, like to stick with FREE stuff, because i'm poor... well not exactly true, i just spend money like there's no tomorrow, buying whatever i feel like on the spot if it tickles my fancy.
so FREE helps a lot, LOL
99% of the apps i suggest from android market are free, as i try to save were i can, so that i can spend it else when when i go out drinking
Any further posts in this thread, by any member, that are not directly related to the thread topic (i.e. the relative merits of the Galaxy Tab vs. the regular SGS variants) will met with immediate disciplinary action.
Android looks relatively Vanilla on the Tab. Can someone use the tab firmware to cook a similar ROM for the Galaxy S?
Intratech said:
Android looks relatively Vanilla on the Tab. Can someone use the tab firmware to cook a similar ROM for the Galaxy S?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure once we (some one from XDA) can get their hands on a working unit, that might actually be possible
as the Tab shares so much in common with the SGS, except for the screen size
we might need to edit the Aspect Ratio / resolution on the Tabs ROM and we might be able to use on our phones
i like the Gmail app version running on the Tab, you can split the screen, we can't do it yet with our current version when in landscape mode
Outlook lovers will love that feature
This is a relatively new model and still difficult to obtain, although availability is increasing and prices are dropping.
It is a standalone smartwatch, or watch phone as I call it. It could be compared to the Neptune Pine, but is not as bulky. It can be easily detached from its wristband and mounted into accessories like a bike handlebar mount or windshield mount. Thanks to the detachability, it is quite practical as a telephone (no Knight Rider poses or arm cramp required, just slide it from the wrist and it becomes a small handheld). Unfortunately it performs not too well as a handheld telephone due to mediocre sound quality from the microphone and subpar signal reception. A headset is recommended.
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This is made for the Chinese market, the manual and the website are in Chinese only. A factory reset sets the phone to Chinese. There seems to be a variation called “AbarGoo” that might have some extra features like limited 3G, NFC, and charging contacts on the back. However, nobody has been able to find one for sale, let alone buy one. It may only have been a prototype that was never put into production.
It looks a lot like the discontinued Motorola Motoactv. My guess is that they salvaged parts of the Motoactv manufacturing line and modified them. Aside from the scratch-resistant glass top and overall looks however, this has little in common with the Motoactv.
Specs:
Android 4.2.2
MT6572 1.2GHz Cortex A7 dual-core
1GB RAM
8GB NAND
550mAh battery (built-in). Of course the sales pages mention 700mAh, which means this one has a Chinese gullibility mAh tax of 27%.
5MPixel camera (which is actually true for once!)
GPS and compass
microUSB port, micro-SIM slot
3.5mm headset jack
light sensor & accelerometers
WiFi, Bluetooth, EDGE (no 3G though).
Despite being 100% Chinese (AFAIK), this is not the average cheap rubber-and-plastic Chinese watch phone that will fall apart after half a year of usage, at least not the watch body. The hardware is really good, which warrants its higher price tag. It looks water-resistant, but is not. I reckon it can withstand minor splashes of water or even a very short dunk, but water can get inside through a tiny gap around the display. It is possible to vastly improve water-resistance by sealing this gap.
The camera (t8ev5) is impressive: true 5MP with autofocus and macro up to 5cm (pixel-level details tend to get lost in aggressive noise reduction though). The screen is also very good, the first Chinese watch phone with perfect multi-touch that I have encountered. It is a far cry from the crappy screen on e.g. the ZGPAX S5.
Bluetooth keyboards work, which I consider a must have, especially on such small device. It is a rarity on these Chinese phones.
GPS is pretty good, better than one would expect from the typical integrated MediaTek hardware.
Overall, very nice hardware aside from lack of true water resistance, as well as not so great microphone performance during calls. If you want to be understood during calls, you either have to use a headset, or follow a specific ritual as described in my more extensive review.
The software is less impressive: it runs a rather crippled Android 4.2.2. No Play store, nerfed system settings, and a limited set of mostly custom apps. Even when set to English, there still is Chinese in many places. It has an annoying bug in its theme that causes white text on white backgrounds in many dialogs, especially important ones Other nuisances are huge fonts everywhere (makes sense, because Chinese characters require a larger font), and no clock in the status bar (hey, wasn't this supposed to be a watch?)
I made a more extensive review for those interested.
Custom ROM (a.k.a. FrankenROM)
I solved the problems with the stock ROM by basically replacing it for the most part with another ROM. I started from a custom TrueSmart ROM by Dees_Troy, and combined it with parts from the stock system. I also fixed the layout problems that were in the dialer, etc.
The ROM includes a TWRP recovery image as well, based on the one for the Omate TrueSmart.
I fixed the most annoying problems, I even managed to add permanent tweaks for the poor audio, which makes handheld phone calls quite feasible. Overall this is a huge improvement over the stock ROM. Next to fixing the bugs, it provides a working Play store, multiple languages, and the other goodies one would expect from a proper Android system.
Download the custom ROM or update package (version 4) (released 2015/03/14, update 06/18: repartitioning)
Users of version FR3 can download an update package to be flashed through TWRP.
The latest download (since June 18th) includes the possibility to choose between 1GB, 1.5GB, or 2GB internal space for installing apps (of course, user partition will shrink accordingly). Existing users can rely on TWRP to repartition without losing their apps. See the README for instructions.
The download includes instructions in a README file. The ROM must be flashed through SP Flash Tools, because the F80 is sold with different ROMs that have different layouts, so I cannot just distribute only a TWRP partition and a system partition like I did with version 2. (Users of FR2 can upgrade by only flashing the ANDROID partition, see the README for details.)
I reckon this ROM will also work fine with the ‘AbarGoo’ version of this phone if it exists at all, but 3G capability will most likely be lost when flashing this ROM. After opening up the F80 however and seeing empty soldering pads, it seems very likely that the F80 was originally intended to be the AbarGoo, but it was too ambitious and they had to omit the 3G parts because they did not work. I do not think we'll see the AbarGoo anytime soon.
Many thanks to Dees_Troy, Lokifish Marz, AdamOutler, toastcfh, and kuronosan, who worked directly or indirectly on the TrueSmart ROM that I used as a basis for this ‘FrankenROM’.
I love the way it's detachable from the strap but still looks good. Waiting for a clone to buy
WHAT!?!?!??!?! :0
This is almost the exact copy of motorola MOTOACTV!!!!
Wtf
hackerse7en said:
WHAT!?!?!??!?! :0
This is almost the exact copy of motorola MOTOACTV!!!!
Wtf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes indeed! The Chinese have done it again.
Only, this is different hardware with better specs all across the board. It is a bit bulkier (13mm thick instead of 9.6mm), but for that you get a 5MP camera and full standalone ability with a pretty good built-in speaker and mic. The only thing that seems identical is the glass top, which they probably took from the discontinued Motoactv manufacturing line. It is not a coincidence that this showed up not too long after the Motoactv was discontinued…
What is without any doubt worse though, is the software it ships with. Anyone looking for a finished ready-to-use product like the Motoactv should not buy this. But once it is flashed with a better ROM, it becomes a very capable tiny wearable smartwatch.
$299 dollars on aliexpress
all these chinese watches kinda suck....
edit: this one is also standalone and costs 1/10th
JarlSX said:
edit: this one is also standalone and costs 1/10th
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny that you picked that one, because it was the first watch phone I had… six years ago. People had no idea what it was back then and were pretty surprised when I told it was a telephone. Was actually pretty decent as a phone, but a thick lump when worn on the wrist, and had a prehistoric operating system.
Where did you buy it?
Where did you buy this?
KOAO said:
Where did you buy this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get this on Taobao, or try searching the keyword abardeen on Aliexpress, the price should be around $230 or $180 ( )
KOAO said:
Where did you buy this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got this on AliExpress indeed, had to nag the reseller because availability seemed low at the moment. Availability seems better now. Try combinations of "F80", "watch", "abardeen", and "abargoo". There appear to be two variations, one with the "Abardeen" logo and one with "AbarGoo", the latter might have some extras like NFC, charging contacts at the rear, and limited 3G.
DrLex said:
Got this on AliExpress indeed, had to nag the reseller because availability seemed low at the moment. Availability seems better now. Try combinations of "F80", "watch", "abardeen", and "abargoo". There appear to be two variations, one with the "Abardeen" logo and one with "AbarGoo", the latter might have some extras like NFC, charging contacts at the rear, and limited 3G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dr. Lex i find this watch in Aliexpress for 179.00. In description, says that this watch can be used like a companion watch. Its true in your watch?
Interesting, good review. I would like to see a comparison to a real sports watch, but that only makes sense when BTLE is supported, which requires Android 4.3 or later. KitKat is expected for MT6572 soon, maybe MediaTek has made a better job and maybe even releases sources?
Hopefully the MT watches can cooperate, as DrLex started here.
It has some extras like FM and wired headphone I could live without. My use case is as a sports watch replacing a Garmin. I miss vibration, IP67 (even if it seems decent) and a barometer, NFC (as in the AbarGoo) and ANT+ would be a big bonus too.
A Sport Watch must be possible to operate without the screen, this at least has 4 buttons. That works OK with IpBike and an adapted Xposed Additions module: I can get multi and combo actions. (A link in Omate TrueSmart thread)
I consider giving up on my Omate TrueSmart, GPS broken which is a key feature for me.
Hm, should I wait for something better or get a TomTom with barometer instead?
arovaris said:
Dr. Lex i find this watch in Aliexpress for 179.00. In description, says that this watch can be used like a companion watch. Its true in your watch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the right app like SWApp Link installed, it should work as companion (haven't tried it). In the stock ROM there is an app that is supposed to have link functionality, but it is something custom that requires an APK to be downloaded from a Chinese only website, and manually installed on the other phone. That's probably the meaning of the description on AliExpress…
DrLex said:
With the right app like SWApp Link installed, it should work as companion (haven't tried it). In the stock ROM there is an app that is supposed to have link functionality, but it is something custom that requires an APK to be downloaded from a Chinese only website, and manually installed on the other phone. That's probably the meaning of the description on AliExpress…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please, can you make a YouTube review??
arovaris said:
Please, can you make a YouTube review??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can wait, I won't have the opportunity to do that the next three weeks…
arovaris said:
Please, can you make a YouTube review??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are YouTube reviews or at least presentations of SWapp Link.
The weak point is not the app but the connection between the connected devices.
The Omate TS defualt ROM did not work for me at all, the BT ROM DrLex used for the F80 should work better.
DrLex said:
If you can wait, I won't have the opportunity to do that the next three weeks…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I want a f80 YouTube review.
---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------
Well, buyed one. Now wait...
gerhardo said:
Interesting, good review. I would like to see a comparison to a real sports watch, but that only makes sense when BTLE is supported, which requires Android 4.3 or later. KitKat is expected for MT6572 soon,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the PLUM GATOR uses a Mediatek MT6572A chipset too
And it seems that it has been already upgraded to Android 4.4 (Download link to the ROM...)
Search "Upgrade/Update Plum Gator 4.4.2 KitKat"
(I would I liked to post the link but ALL new users prevented from posting outside links in their messages)
Looking forward to see that happening on the ABARDEEN F80 too.
Bad. I buyer from a aliexpress seller but bad description. pictures are "abargoo ", but watch is abardeen, without 3g. Order cancelled.
DrLex said:
This is a relatively new model and still difficult to obtain, although availability is increasing and prices are dropping.
It is a standalone smartwatch, or watch phone as I call it. It could be compared to the Neptune Pine, but is not as bulky. It can be easily detached from its wristband and mounted into accessories like a bike handlebar mount or windshield mount. Thanks to the detachability, it is quite practical as a telephone (no Knight Rider poses or arm cramp required, just slide it from the wrist and it becomes a small handheld).
View attachment 2893181
This is made for the Chinese market, the manual and the website are in Chinese only. A factory reset sets the phone to Chinese. There seems to be a variation called “AbarGoo” that might have some extra features like limited 3G, NFC, and charging contacts on the back.
It looks a lot like the discontinued Motorola Motoactv. My guess is that they salvaged parts of the Motoactv manufacturing line and modified them. Aside from the scratch-resistant glass top and overall looks however, this has little in common with the Motoactv.
Specs:
Android 4.2.2
MT6572 1.2GHz Cortex A7 dual-core
1GB RAM
8GB NAND
700mAh battery (built-in)
5MPixel camera
GPS and compass
microUSB port, micro-SIM slot
3.5mm headset jack
light sensor & accelerometers
WiFi, Bluetooth, EDGE (no 3G though).
Despite being 100% Chinese (AFAIK), this is not the average cheap rubber-and-plastic Chinese watch phone that will fall apart after half a year of usage. The hardware is really good, which warrants its higher price tag. It looks quite water-resistant. I reckon it could withstand a short dunk, although IP67 might be a stretch.
The camera (t8ev5) is impressive: true 5MP with autofocus and macro up to 5cm (pixel-level details tend to get lost in aggressive noise reduction though). The screen is also very good, the first Chinese watch phone with perfect multi-touch that I have encountered.
Bluetooth keyboards work, which I consider a must have, especially on such small device. It is a rarity on these Chinese phones though.
GPS is pretty good, better than one would expect from the typical integrated MediaTek hardware.
Overall, very nice hardware.
The software is less impressive: it runs a rather crippled Android 4.2.2. No Play store, nerfed system settings, and a limited set of mostly custom apps. It has an annoying bug in its theme that causes white text on white backgrounds in many dialogs, especially important ones Other nuisances are huge fonts everywhere (makes sense, because Chinese characters require a larger font), and no clock in the status bar (hey, wasn't this supposed to be a watch?)
I have not managed to get TWRP working yet. Recovery partition is only 6MB which complicates things (as does my lack of knowledge about it). Any help with this would be appreciated. For now, I resort to MtkDroidTools for backups, and a slow and bloated version of SP Flash Tool for flashing.
I made a more extensive review for those interested.
Custom ROM
I solved the problems with the stock ROM by basically replacing it for the most part with another ROM. I started from a custom TrueSmart ROM by Dees_Troy, and combined it with parts from the stock system. I also fixed the layout problems that were in the dialer etc. Some small problems are left, but overall this is a huge improvement over the stock ROM. Next to fixing the bugs, it provides a working Play store, multiple languages, and the other goodies one would expect from a decent Android system.
Download the custom ROM (version 1)
The download includes instructions. Due to lack of TWRP at the moment, it is a bit kludgy to install, but it is worth it
I reckon this ROM will also work fine with the ‘AbarGoo’ version of this phone, but I guarantee nothing.
Many thanks to Dees_Troy, Lokifish Marz, AdamOutler, toastcfh, and kuronosan, who worked directly or indirectly on the TrueSmart ROM that I used as a basis for this ‘FrankenROM’.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Send me your recovery image.
arovaris said:
Bad. I buyer from a aliexpress seller but bad description. pictures are "abargoo ", but watch is abardeen, without 3g. Order cancelled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can someone kindly provide links to the cheapest one, I found $236 on AliExpress.
its ¥ 1388.00 on their site
W8 is the Core-M and resolution upgrade of the pretty good, high-end Baytrail (but only 32bit OS) W3.
Available in 64GB and 128GB versions, with gold or gray coloured metal back. Price ~$460 USD (64GB) isn't terrible for supposed ~2x performance over the W3 + 2560x1600 resolution, 4GB RAM, (most likely) licensed 64bit Win8.1 'with Bing' edition + large 10,000mah battery.
3G/4G capability is unclear, with 'external 3G dongle' mentioned. Perhaps takes the same Huawei 3G UltraStick as the W3, or something else. Either way, not yet clear if the '3G dongle' is included in the pre-sale listings?
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Gold back:
Gray back:
(May 11) Currently available for pre-order, special price (supposed to go up around May 15). Keyboard seems to be included, but some conflicting reports as sellers don't have stock yet and seem to be guessing.
Known stores:
Bangood:
64GB: http://www.banggood.com/PIPO-W8-Intel-Core-M-5Y10-2_0GHz-10_1-Inch-Windows-8_1-Tablet-p-975640.html
128GB: http://www.banggood.com/PIPO-W8-Int...1-Inch-128GB-Windows-8_1-Tablet-p-975679.html
(vouchers available)
Pompmall (listing both back colours + 128GB option)
Pipo Store
Ainol-novo
Geekbuying (expensive).
Specs: (from Pipo-store):
Code:
OS: Windows 8.1
CPU: Intel Core M
GPU: Intel HD Graphics 5300
RAM: 4GB DDR3L
ROM: 64GB
Screen: IPS, capacitive touch screen, G+G screen
Size: 10.1 inch; 16:10
Resolution: 2560*1600 pixels
Visible Angle: 178°
Gravity Sensor: Yes
Camera: front is 2.0 megapixels, back is 5.0 megapixels
HDMI: Support
WIFI: 802.11 b/g/n
Bluetooth: v4.0
Ethernet: USB to Ethernet
OTG: USB to OTG
USB: USB 3.0
3G: 3G Dongle
Video: 4K, MEPG 1/2/4, H.263/H2.64, RMVB, WMV/VC-1, MVC, AVS, MJPEG
Music: MP3, WMA, WAV, OGG, FLAC, ALAC, APE, AAC, AC-3
Card Extension: Support TF card
Multi-Touch: Support
Language: English, Russian and Chinese
Skype: Yes
Flash: Flash 11
HTML5: Support
Speaker: dual speaker design
Battery: 10000mAh*3.8V=38Wh
Email and Browser: Yes, built in
Earphone Interface: 3.5mm
Size: 299*179*10.8mm
Ports:
1 x USB 3.0
1 x 2.5mm DC
1 x 3.5mm earphone
1 x HDMI
1 x MicroSD
Pipo W8 Tablet Package Including:
1 x Pipo W8 Tablet
1 x USB
1 x Charger(12V,3A)
Any more word from any of the suppliers? I was torn on waiting for reviews but I miss having a tablet so I'll likely buy this on release day and hope for the best :S
NeoMatrixJR said:
Any more word from any of the suppliers? I was torn on waiting for reviews but I miss having a tablet so I'll likely buy this on release day and hope for the best :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No nothing and it seems nobody has stock yet. I'm in the same boat, will probably buy the 128GB from Bangood (though I'd prefer the gray back).
If you're not following the W3 thread anymore, it seems some people got a non-original W3 keyboard (or maybe unbranded sightly different ones from the factory) from Banggood. So we should ask for a picture of it before ordering.
It's the final countdown....
So, if the information given by banggood is correct this should go on sale sometime on the 15th. That means that at some time after ~ 9pm or so central time this should be available. I'm hoping they don't change the price much. Of the other core m tabs they have the onda and the cube and the teclast is also "alert me on arrival." It's interesting, I just noted that they have it looks like 3 SKUs for the i7... 64gb, 128gb, and 128gb + kbd (increasing in price). The Onda (64gb only) also comes with a keyboard. Only the Teclast and the Pipo have the > FHD screen and the teclast is listed at $669.99! I'll have my fingers crossed all day today waiting on word for this. Good luck to anyone else considering it.
dealabs i just a social site where you post deals.
the link goes to bangood. if you could edit that.
Not yet....
:crying::crying::crying:
From Banggood last night after I inquired about an update:
We are sorry to inform you that the item doesn't put on sale for now.Because the manufaturer need to debug the software. Besides, this item won't have keyboard.So sorry for that.
For the selling price, we are not very sure now. But it may be close to the selling price on our website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see pipo-store and pompmall haven't released this either. I hope we'll see something soon. I indicated that other sellers have said it will come with the keyboard so I'm hoping this changes from Banggood. If they keep to selling without the keyboard I may have to purchase elsewhere....
:crying::crying::crying:
Thanks @reggiexp, removed.
@NeoMatrixJR thanks for the update. Sucks though, well it's better they fix the bugs rather than letting early adopters suffer them all. Re. keyboard I don't trust anyone to know at this point until stock comes in. Hope they're wrong ...
_gl said:
thanks for the update. Sucks though, well it's better they fix the bugs rather than letting early adopters suffer them all. Re. keyboard I don't trust anyone to know at this point until stock comes in. Hope they're wrong ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know...depending on how bad the errors are. If it works and they don't need to make hardware changes (and I'd hope they don't at this point or we're going to be waiting a while) I'd almost rather get my tablet and update it later. But I can understand why they wouldn't want to do that. There's going to be a lot more people that would be pissed about getting a tablet with issues. But again...I'm tablet-less at the moment so I just want something. Maybe I'll step down and borrow mom's old ASUS TF101 for now....
Wow...newegg flash has the Lenovo Miix 2 11 w/ keyboard for $499. Tempting...No USB 3 and only FHD though. Core i5 & SSD though. I wonder if a 4th gen i5 > core m?
I do not see decent modern manufacturers.
I do not use closed systems, such as m$ software, since at least 1998.
And I do not recommend android system now, also, that is just can look like open system, but in really it is something like honeypot. Where, for example, google play is far enough from the greatest evil . Yep, android can even mask itself, under some independent more or less clear distributions, but in really it is the jast the same - only on new more sophisticated spiral turn.
Given the above, and that, if we even can check open code now, we can not check hardware, certainly.
Early I could choose the components for my desktop, personal computer. Now manufacturers try push me into the trap. Given, that everything is clear with the other, but what is wrong with Chinese manufacturers? Or, simply saying, if they do not preset w..s, they do not get processors from Intel?
I do not interesting in bright and meaningless advertisement pictures of new devices. Understandable, that setting open system on theme device with Intel system on a chip is more likely. But where is the video or screen pictures of device startup process? Where the first advertisement string, that must contain only one thing - that I can buy device without any preinstalled system and set some open, free, by my choice, as in past on desktop computer? Where the possibility to change parts in my personal tablet computer, as in past with desktop computers? So, it is remain now to look on ARM devices side, where some of such devices start appears.
Dear, Intel, in spite of all your contributions to the open source, where is in really good new, clear from stock devices? Dear, not only Chinese manufacturers - while all so, all this tonns of new beautifull persoanl spies may remain in your storages. I am not interesting anymore to waite, while you debug your, so called, software. I just will vote with my money .
By the way, dear, Intel, probably, in this time and exactly this will allow to say to x86 - goodbye.
NeoMatrixJR said:
I don't know...depending on how bad the errors are. If it works and they don't need to make hardware changes (and I'd hope they don't at this point or we're going to be waiting a while) I'd almost rather get my tablet and update it later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be hardware issues like charging problems, drivers not working, BIOS bugs (worst-case causing bricking), screen not waking, black holes opening and swallowing our solar system, Harry Shearer quitting The Simpsons... I could do without any of those . Don't forget, you don't want to have to ship it back to China, ever.
Wow...newegg flash has the Lenovo Miix 2 11 w/ keyboard for $499. Tempting...No USB 3 and only FHD though. Core i5 & SSD though. I wonder if a 4th gen i5 > core m?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've lost count of the gens, but the benchmarks show that Core-M's are somewhere between recent dual-core i3 and i5 (sometimes even approaching the i5). At least if the thermal solution is good. Sounds a pretty good deal if it suits you (I need USB3 and don't like the 16:9 aspect).
dzp said:
I do not use closed systems, such as m$ software, since at least 1998.<snip>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I respect your opinion (I've been Windows-only like forever). I'm not clear though how you expect to be able to change the internals of tablets. They are designed to be as slim as possible, as such they cannot easily be made modular (not impossible, but more expensive and size will suffer a little). And of course it's much simpler/cheaper to build dedicated devices. That also allows integration of various peripherals into fewer chips, again making things smaller and drivers more reliable. And I expect that also makes things like booting faster, and power consumption lower, as the whole system is built from the ground up for mobile usage, and tweaked mainly by Intel, giving likely less bugs, compatibility problems and better quality drivers then mixing and matching components from different vendors.
Sure, it would be a big bonus if you could at least change the battery easily. And maybe tablets will get more modular for some parts (eg. swap the camera out), upgrade the memory etc. But at the moment everyone wants to be as slim and lightweight as possible, that's the priority. Once the technology gets too slim, they can make things modular.
Got this from Pipo's Facebook account last night:
W8 will be shipped end of this week
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NeoMatrixJR said:
Got this from Pipo's Facebook account last night:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great.
_gl said:
Great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pipo store are still saying keyboard included. Replied asking about what exactly the 3G dongle is (W3 Ultrastick or something else):
"Onc eit is in stock, we will release it on our website at the first time. PIPO W8 do comes with the Pipo keyboard. Sorry but the PIPO Official has not released the PIPO W8 is not built-in 3G network, but it support 3G Dongle. You need to buy the 3G Dongle by your own."
Processors comparison.
NeoMatrixJR said:
I wonder if a 4th gen i5 > core m?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_gl said:
I've lost count of the gens, but the benchmarks show that Core-M's are somewhere between recent dual-core i3 and i5 (sometimes even approaching the i5).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use cpuboss site to comparison. For example, Lenovo Miix 2 with 4th Generation Intel Core i5 4202Y vs PIPO W8 Intel Core M-5Y10, please, see in Attachment.
And do not look onto KDE, please, case it is just some tempoary machine, from I wrote now.
Modular personal computer.
_gl said:
I respect your opinion (I've been Windows-only like forever). I'm not clear though how you expect to be able to change the internals of tablets. They are designed to be as slim as possible,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_gl, thank you for your answer. I agree with you here, certainly.
_gl said:
as such they cannot easily be made modular (not impossible, but more expensive and size will suffer a little).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The priority in the design should not be profit at the expense of monolithic of products, but user convenience due to the modularity of products. For example, the main interesting claimed advantage of PIPO W8 can consider 10.1 Inch Retina Capacitive Screen with 2560*1600 resolution. In principle different situation, anyone could purchase a required separate screen module, motherboard module with SOC, memory module, power module and required interfaces modules. Then connect all this tougether. Of course, it is requires standardization. Which manufacturers will be resist.
_gl said:
And of course it's much simpler/cheaper to build dedicated devices. That also allows integration of various peripherals into fewer chips, again making things smaller and drivers more reliable. And I expect that also makes things like booting faster, and power consumption lower, as the whole system is built from the ground up for mobile usage, and tweaked mainly by Intel, giving likely less bugs, compatibility problems and better quality drivers then mixing and matching components from different vendors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, you right. But you describe current situation. And creators of this sutuation is manufacturers, not customers. In really, this is not right situation. We constantly see, what it brings. Moreover, as usually, manufacturers have possibility to goes further, due customers. Everything should be the opposite. We, customers must define situation, what is more convenient for us - case we pay.
_gl said:
Sure, it would be a big bonus if you could at least change the battery easily. And maybe tablets will get more modular for some parts (eg. swap the camera out), upgrade the memory etc. But at the moment everyone wants to be as slim and lightweight as possible, that's the priority. Once the technology gets too slim, they can make things modular.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh , Certainly. Agree here. Perhaps, in 10-20 years, currently estimated rather powerful computers, in size of a business card or less will not cost anything. However, the main priority already now must be not the combination, for example, of speed, size or weight, but respect from the manufacturer side for the rights of the customer by a fairly large number of criteria. Thus, the product must be honest with the customer. For example, guarantee the same privacy. With what modern manufacturers have serious problems.
Regarding modular phones, tablets - probably you know, Google working on Ara. There are exists and other simpler, for example, Click ARM One, HN1 Modules Tablet.
dzp said:
_gl,The priority in the design should not be profit at the expense of monolithic of products, but user convenience due to the modularity of products. For example, the main interesting claimed advantage of PIPO W8 can consider 10.1 Inch Retina Capacitive Screen with 2560*1600 resolution. In principle different situation, anyone could purchase a required separate screen module, motherboard module with SOC, memory module, power module and required interfaces modules. Then connect all this tougether. Of course, it is requires standardization. Which manufacturers will be resist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, but we know what kind of compatiblity nightmare that can be on PCs. Mobile devices try to be 'simple', that's was most people want from them. Buy it, use it. Having to find drivers or figuring out why hardware A and B sometimes don't play nice together or (worst-case) bluescreen/crash doesn't really work on a phone or tablet. They just have to work and be painless/fun to use.
I agree though, a modular option would be cool and can be done. But we're in the early stages of mobile, once innovation slows down I'm sure we'll see more modularity.
Yep, you right. But you describe current situation. And creators of this sutuation is manufacturers, not customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree, due to most people wanting mobile things to 'just work' (which is what Apple did so brilliantly). Imagine if you had to worry about making the hardware of an iPhone work well together, nobody except power users wants this (that's why most people don't jailbreak either). I'm a desktop power-user (that's why I like the W3 and W8, as they are higher-end proper desktop-capable machines) and I run my own programs on them and customize a lot. But most people don't need that to do basic browsing and watch movies.
In really, this is not right situation. We constantly see, what it brings. Moreover, as usually, manufacturers have possibility to goes further, due customers. Everything should be the opposite. We, customers must define situation, what is more convenient for us - case we pay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but I think we're unfortunately in the minority. If everybody wanted modularity or ethics, we'd get it. Many people don't even care about non-replaceable batteries 'coz they plan to buy the next model before it runs out. Mobile is in the early crazy-fast stage of innovation, it will slow down and then people may want something they can upgrade, rather than sell on every time.
However, the main priority already now must be not the combination, for example, of speed, size or weight, but respect from the manufacturer side for the rights of the customer by a fairly large number of criteria. Thus, the product must be honest with the customer. For example, guarantee the same privacy. With what modern manufacturers have serious problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes those are fair points. Right now it's just about (unfortunately) disposable technology & performance, I do hope people think more about the social and ethical implications at some point.
Regarding modular phones, tablets - probably you know, Google working on Ara. There are exists and other simpler, for example, Click ARM One, HN1 Modules Tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep I saw a few things about the Ara, it's a nice idea. But if it ends up costing a bit more, weighing a bit more, and maybe sightly less powerful than a closed solution, most people will pass it by (right now). Will be interesting how it turns out though.
_gl, sorry, by the way, for my slight deviations from your theme and for my english. But we have interesting discussion.
In really not only modern phones and tablets have modular construction already. But this "modularity" is just with what working manufacturer's engineers inside design centers.
_gl said:
Sure, but we know what kind of compatiblity nightmare that can be on PCs. Mobile devices try to be 'simple', that's was most people want from them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. But personal home computers of 80's is not the same, as personal mobile devices in 2015, moreover mostly time connected with net. initially, computers was mostly designed from engeneers to engineers. Of course, this does not mean, that computers have to be complicated. But noone still does not know exactly, what means "simple" in terms of most people. Search systems and many other different systems already trying to manipulate the consciousness of people.
Major evolutionary changes make overestimate related to a personal computer. We does not know already, what information collecting from our personal devices, and how it used in most cases. More fun is, when corporations, following the wishes of "simplicity" from most people and own inner reasons, will start integrate elements of artificial intelligence into personal computer operating systems. It can be a lil less fun, for example, if onetime, some artificial joints, mounted to continue increasing longevity, suddenly will start direct legs to some not desired direction . What do w...s every moment on your personal device? What do android every moment on your personal device? We do not know in really. We does not know even, what additional blocks are integrated on chip and what purposes they are - this chips and blocks are too small . When you interact with your personal computer - is it still you with your own individuality, or already more or less changed in a certain direction person? In past and now the most important characteristics was the speed of computer. I guess, pretty soon the most important feature will be encryption strength, the force of information protection of the system, which, of course, is related with performance. In these circumstances, it is important to continually critical reevaluate, what corporations silently try to introduce, fully overestimate structure of equipment proposed for the sale, perhaps even from the law level. Something like - manufacturer not have right to releasing information equipment without fully opening its composition to be able to provide a complete check.
_gl said:
Buy it, use it. Having to find drivers or figuring out why hardware A and B sometimes don't play nice together or (worst-case) bluescreen/crash doesn't really work on a phone or tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not customers guilty. This is guilty of manufacturers, that in the pursuit of profit did not want to agree in standards, include software quality.
_gl said:
But we're in the early stages of mobile, once innovation slows down I'm sure we'll see more modularity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right, I agree.
_gl said:
But most people don't need that to do basic browsing and watch movies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but most people usually see just tip of the iceberg. They see only, what they are allowed to see. Once people are awake, but will be too late.
_gl said:
I agree, but I think we're unfortunately in the minority. If everybody wanted modularity or ethics, we'd get it. Many people don't even care about non-replaceable batteries 'coz they plan to buy the next model before it runs out. Mobile is in the early crazy-fast stage of innovation, it will slow down and then people may want something they can upgrade, rather than sell on every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, you totally right.
Good discussion dzp, it's good that people are looking at the bigger picture of technology.
Pipo-store replied about the 3G dongle, but said nothing useful (I guess they don't know yet):
"We will release the 3G dongle that compatiable with the PIPO W8 on our website soon. Zoe"
No confirmation if it's the same as W3 etc.
I recently found a new smartwatch on the NO.1 website which I did not see listed on any shop yet, it's called simply No.1 Watch. It pretty much looks like the No.1 Sun S2 in a more subtle body, but without the heart rate sensor. Additionaly they added a SIM slot and MicroSD slot to it instead. Here's a little overview:
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"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
(Source: http://en.001phone.cn/product-no-1-watch-102.html)
According to a NO.1 employee the watch should be released middle of this month already. Curious if they can hold up to their plans.
The watch is now listed as No.1 T3 in some shops for a price at 60$ for the end of august.
KloNom said:
The watch is now listed as No.1 T3 in some shops for a price at 60$ for the end of august.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This watch case is produced by another Chinese company which is also working for multiple vendors. Looks like they are also producing OEMs products from this ID
Here are some first motion pictures of the watch:
KloNom, whether the size of the display is the same as No1 Sun 2?
Monipeev said:
KloNom, whether the size of the display is the same as No1 Sun 2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not know anything for sure, but from the pictures and the video it very much seems like that No.1 is using the same display in the S3 as in the Sun S2.
NO.1 S3 Scratchproof Bluetooth Smart Watch
$63 on pre-order on EverBuying.net
But Bluetooth 3 only?
...and one Gearbest and DealsMachine. But it'll be the same old story ...again.
After seeing that backplate setup, water resistance is out.
Lokifish Marz said:
After seeing that backplate setup, water resistance is out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, it not support watch resistance
Seems that S3 change to mt2502 cpu, so it can connect both android and IOS system, that will be great
We have adopted a similar solution, also our Android/Linux watch can connect to Android, iOS and Windows 10. In order to achieve that we had to modify the Bluetooth module so the watch is visible with two different channels, one to act as a Bluetooth headphone and one to act as a Bluetooth device. This is because iOS does not allow any Bluetooth device to connect automatically so some workarounds are required on the hardware profile.
NO.1 S3 MT6260 Capacitive Touch Screen Bluetooth 3.0 Smart Watch Review：
Yes but they are way behind the current technologies. They still have Bluetooth 3.0, what's the point considering that Bluetooth 4.0 has been released a year ago or even more?
I have seen this watch also on an other store, there it is called No.1 T3, but it is the same thing.
By the way, if you are looking for a round smartwatch maybe this one is worth a look:
http://www.gearbest.com/smart-watches/pp_203003.html
It has a heart rate sensor, and infrared remote controller. It is waterproof and quite thin for a smartwatch and costs below 50$. Sadly it has no slots for sim and TF card so it can't be used as standalone device.
raffaeu said:
Yes but they are way behind the current technologies. They still have Bluetooth 3.0, what's the point considering that Bluetooth 4.0 has been released a year ago or even more?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It already become bluetooth 4.0, due to them use mt2502 cpu now, you can check official website, http://en.001phone.cn/product-no-1-watch-102.html change yesterday
Current market trends:
1. There's the Chinese poor quality manufacturers - cheap price and quality. With the Chinese rubbish you know where you stand, you pay less and then after a short time you buy another cheap product and there's no support at all, they copy others people's hard work.
2. The bigger companies (Samsung, Apple, sony.. Etc) that will actually spend more money and time in R&D to intentionally design products so it won't last long, Planned obsolescence (Wikipedia). So that they make more money as a policy. Also massive marketing campaigns that makes you feel yo need the next version, every year. With the large corporations, they very are sneaky by what they say and what they actually do, because it's all about profits.
3. Good quality manufacturers, like some Swiss, very good quality, but expensive.
In these modern era of entrepreneurs, Open Source (3D printers to help with concept designs), online collaboration ...etc there's a middle way, that's the route we should hold on too. The dreamers with a vision, with a lot of hard work. OXY smartwatch seems like those dreamers with potential, there's others too, I wish them all success, as all seem to want to build a genuine solid product, but finance is always an issue, but its doable.
It's tempting to buy the cheapest stuff because it fulfills a short goal to have a nice looking watch that will impress for a while, there will always be a market for these cheap products and for the uninformed that want the 'latest iProducts' who will overpay as long as they have the latest famous brands.
As ethical humans I think it's important not to support the unethical companies mentioned above and give the entrepreneurial who are taking massive (calculated) risks with their wealth, time/life our full support as long as they hold true to the ethical values. ... So nice to have a watch that just works, one that I can pass down to my kids if only for sentimental reasons.
simple1i said:
Current market trends:
1. There's the Chinese poor quality manufacturers - cheap price and quality. With the Chinese rubbish you know where you stand, you pay less and then after a short time you buy another cheap product and there's no support at all, they copy others people's hard work.
2. The bigger companies (Samsung, Apple, sony.. Etc) that will actually spend more money and time in R&D to intentionally design products so it won't last long, Planned obsolescence (Wikipedia). So that they make more money as a policy. Also massive marketing campaigns that makes you feel yo need the next version, every year. With the large corporations, they very are sneaky by what they say and what they actually do, because it's all about profits.
3. Good quality manufacturers, like some Swiss, very good quality, but expensive.
In these modern era of entrepreneurs, Open Source (3D printers to help with concept designs), online collaboration ...etc there's a middle way, that's the route we should hold on too. The dreamers with a vision, with a lot of hard work. OXY smartwatch seems like those dreamers with potential, there's others too, I wish them all success, as all seem to want to build a genuine solid product, but finance is always an issue, but its doable.
It's tempting to buy the cheapest stuff because it fulfills a short goal to have a nice looking watch that will impress for a while, there will always be a market for these cheap products and for the uninformed that want the 'latest iProducts' who will overpay as long as they have the latest famous brands.
As ethical humans I think it's important not to support the unethical companies mentioned above and give the entrepreneurial who are taking massive (calculated) risks with their wealth, time/life our full support as long as they hold true to the ethical values. ... So nice to have a watch that just works, one that I can pass down to my kids if only for sentimental reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello!
Of course I get your point and I truly respect your 'buy quality or nothing'-opinion.
I think this thread is made by (and meant for) users who can not (or want not) spend 300$ or more for an original Samsung/Apple smartwatch. We know of course, that we don't get everlasting high quality products, but anyway we also like to have nice gadets and we can get happy with the cheaper stuff, too. Some of the chinese products also have functions and abilities that the original and expensive devices don't have, like slots for SIM or TF cards or full android system sometimes.
Talking about technology: smartphones, tablets or smartwatches are replaced after a few years by most users, because they simply want something new or better, although their old devices still work. We don't even wait for the 'planned obsolescence'. I think my kids will not be overwhelming happy, if I pass them my old Galaxy S3 smartphone or my old not-flatscreen-TV from the 90s in about 10 or 15 years :laugh:
But again, I know what you mean and I respect your point. It is just economic and responsible long-range-thinking against trends and wishes for something smart and new.
Being entrepreneur in the field of IT hardware nowadays can be easy, that's true, but it is also an high risk and investment. We started with a Nordic Semiconductor PCB more than 1 year ago and we end up with the PCB of Ingenic Newton2 after 12 months of R&D which drained my personal investment, and I have a wife and a baby boy. Of course with 3D printing you can achieve a barely acceptable prototype and we have one like that but do you have any idea of how complex it can be from there to achieve a full watch case in Stainless Steel including an OS like Android? It take times, resources, communications and a lot of passion and perseverance. If one of these factors lack, your project will die within few weeks. Trust me.
Plus hardware is manufactured only in Shenzhen and Taiwan, that's it, and trust you have to fly there, meet people, speak, give them a try and that takes really a lot of time. For me almost 5 months.
Many times I decided to quit, to give up cause no VC is interested in an Open Source platform and no VC is interested in selling a Smartwatch for 200$ when the production cost is over 50$. But for us, our margin is more than enough to keep running our company and our vision and of course pay out the bills and the salaries.
The dream is to simply give an open platform. Buy our product (Smartwatch, Smartphone or Tablet), which run an open source version of Android. Download the source code if you want or simply download the free apps available on the market. That's it. That's what should be technology in my own opinion . We saw the Ingenic Open Platform and we are one of the first manufacturers in adopting it and I personally believe that is a good platform that can easily compete with WEAR or Tizen.
We also want to deliver quality. Our Round Display amoled costs us 40$ per piece, so as you can imagine we are not giving to customers cheap crappy chinese hardware that last 2 months. I am wearing OXY Square for more than a month now and every day I am more impressed about durability and battery life. But of course we still have so much to do before sitting down and watching our e-commerce getting orders
Of course we will run a Crowdfund in November, but not because we are not ready for mass production but because we need cash. To produce 20,000 pieces Ingenic wants cash and the best way to find 20,000 buyers within 30 days is to launch your Smartwatch on IndieGogo or Kickstarter. It's risky, because the exposure can be massive, but this is what we want. We have a system which is now stable, we have an SDK, two manufacturers and a marketing campaign. If we will succeed I don't know but we are doing our best to break the massive market of fidelity and show to the world that a quality product can be released and does not have to cost a fortune.
If OXY Watch will be a success, next year we will release OXY Phone, a quad-core phone 4G enabled for a very competitive price.
As I said before, I have a mission and hopefully I will find people passionate like me that want to join my train and ride it with me.
meh...
...this is called 'viral marketing' I suppose...
Why don't you OXY-guys make your own thread? Give specs of your watch there and put a price tag on it and then see who cares. Maybe you can tell some fantasy stories there about your struggle and fight against the evil chinese companies and your sacrifice of women and children just to built a smartwatch.
My opinion.
Hi guys, I am the owner of OXY SmartWatch, a new SmartWatch available in two versions: Round and Square.
Here a few preview renders of our final product:
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"lightbox_share": "Share",
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"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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}
This is our website:
http://www.oxytechs.com/
And our Google+ page where you can follow our progresses:
https://www.google.com/+Oxytechswatch
The watch is running Android 4.4 AOSP and we have built a custom version of Android that is more feasible for SmartWatches than Android WEAR. Plus we have custom Android Studio templates to work with our product and we give the possibility to install any ROM without breaking warranty or support.
In this thread I want to share with this community a preview of the Watch and our links.
We are also looking for Android Developers, Android Kernel Developers and iOS Developers.
We also accept candidates from remote locations so feel free to share with us at info[at]netarchitectures[dot]co[dot]uk your resume or feedbacks about our product.
If you want to join our Developer Program, follow this link:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software/oxy-smartwatch-development-t3185452
The watches have:
CPU MIPS M200 Dual Core
512 MB RAM
4 GB Disk Space
Heart Rate Sensor
Vibration
AMOLED Touch display covered with Gorilla Glass
Speakers and Microphones
Magnetic contact charging mechanism
Gyroscope, Accellerometer and Magnetometer
Bluetooth 4.0 and BLE Compatible with iOS and Android and PC
Light sensor
400 mAh LiPo Battery
72 hours with BLE and 1 week without Bluetooth enabled
Stainless steel IPV6 water proof
Right now we are working at our website www[dot]OXYTECHS[dot]com and for the end of August you will be able to see the full product description, accessories and various demo.
The 15th of November 2015 we will open the PRE-SALE Campaign.
We have a batch of 5,000 pieces available per model, so a total of 20,000 pieces:
5,000 Round Stainless Steel
5,000 Round Black Stainless Steel
5,000 Square Stainless Steel
5,000 Square Black Stainless Steel
This project is related to the porting of IWOP (Ingenic Wearable Open Platform) for OXY SmartWatches.
The platform IWOP is available here for download: http://iwop.ingenic.com/.
OXY is giving hardware development kit to each developer who is willing to contribute to the platform.
Attached to this thread there are architecture views, UX mocks and interaction design about the OXY custom ROM.
More details related to OXY are available here: http://www.oxytechs.com/
OXY ROM is composed by:
A watchface manager
Home launcher
Control manager app
Settings app
Apps navigator
A set of utilities apps delivered with the product
XDA:DevDB Information
OXY SmartWatch V 1.0, ROM for the Android General
Contributors
raffaeu
Source Code: http://iwop.ingenic.com/
ROM OS Version: 4.4.x KitKat
ROM Kernel: Linux 3.10.x
Based On: IWOP
Some preview videos of OXY ROM:
Notifications Manager
Watchfaces Manager
Phone Calls Manager
Only IPx6, multiple (more than 3) actions to access key info and apps for "Probably 249 or 299"? Hard sell, even with custom ROM support.
On the square version, a bezeless display is easily possible if the PCB and battery are not larger in area than the display area.
Lokifish Marz said:
Only IPx6, multiple (more than 3) actions to access key info and apps for "Probably 249 or 299"? Hard sell, even with custom ROM support.
On the square version, a bezeless display is easily possible if the PCB and battery are not larger in area than the display area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Lokifish and thank you for your feedback.
The answer you mention is about the Black version, which is full Black Stainless Steel, including the wristband. Consider that only the wristband has a production cost of 28$ (without VAT) the price of 249$ does not look that bad to me. Think about OLIO SmartWatch, it's a full Stainless Steel watch with locked ROM and it's sold for almost 600$ a piece.
About the square version, we couldn't find ANY manufacturer in Taiwan, China and Singapore capable to produce a full baseless square display, only round can be baseless but if you know any manufacturer capable of making AMOLED display squared with Gorilla Glass I would be more than happy to get your help, we are still in the beta version of our product and any feedback is welcome and well appreciated.
The OLIO is also design by watchmakers, uses 316L SS, and has a water resistance 50 times greater than that IPx7 with no time limit like IPx7 has.
As far as the band, you can get decent quality folded SS bands for around $15-20 USD at full retail price.
A bezeless square display can be done. It requires an approach not seen in smartwatches though that makes assembly a little more difficult but is still doable. Also, "Off the shelf" designs simply don't cut it as it requires the "crystal" be cut a certain way.
Have your guys look over "U.I Design", "Why this Martian.. ", and "I bet your smartwatch..." links in my signature below. Feel free to pick my brain and use the information in the links. The minimum I ask is that you give proper credit if you use any of it.
Looking at your G+ posts, nice job with the Ingenic BTW. I designed and built a smartwatch using the same platform. Too bad I killed it during a 5 ATM water resistance test.
Hi Lokifish, again useful details and feedback.
You are right, a nice and decent band is probably available on AliExpress for less than 20 bucks, but we made our with a different manufacturer and for the first batch we ended up with a cost of 28$.
This is another reason why we want to get this project into the community, to get feedback and suggestions from people that faced these problems before us.
About OLIO, of course they used high quality materials, a nice design, but I personally disagree about the ROM and UX choices (but this is my personal feeling). The point for me it's about the price. Pebble manufacturer their watch for 18$ and sell it for almost 199$, now dropped to 149$ if I am not wrong.
We are a startup and we will probably endup in some incubators or crowdfunding website in order to start the mass production. Probably the price will be around 199$ on retail but again, the prices and costs we are facing are a bit different than the one faced by watchmakers that have been on the market for many years.
What we believe is different between OXY and the rest of the world is the community, we want to make an open product, we want to make the customer capable to install custom ROM, customize the body and more. This is where we see the added value that other watch makers do not have at the moment.
@Lokifish Marz - thanks for the reply and pointing out OXY ... I feel like there's ... just a little hope ... maybe
@raffaeu - please take into account Lokifish Marz's advice, he will be very valuable to you, from a historical, current & future point of view. You'll save a lot of time and effort.
There are only a few people in the world that can make a decent, let alone a 'good smartwatch', due to greed/profit, but it can be done with the right goals and vision. Always know your history! Courtesy to the Martian ... again
I'm not a techy as such, but an important aspect of a good product is the non-functional business aspects, how to make a robust watch and then marketing, communication, support, together with making a little profit of course. Techies alone can't do this (no offense). Out of desperation we started the Nowt Watch thread, please have read, some very interesting discussion. No doubt you're at a stage where you can't go back with your current products, but we can always better our understanding and add to our knowledge and experiences.
I purchased an Omate clone recently (I had to get it out of my system), some of the non-techy issues, charging it - a pain! Straps - awful! A companion watch, should still be like a stand-alone watch first, meaning, above all its a robust time-piece that many can/would use without a phone as maybe a sports and leisure watch.
I'm curious, what does OXY mean? You have my support if you want it. I used to be a software tester, as well as marketing, strategy, process ... all that boring important stuff. Good luck
@Lokifish Marz has some interesting articles and idea that we are taking into consideration. Our primary targets are:
make an open source product
build a brand and trust from the community
make a real watch, solid, durable and with style
We designed OXY to being able to run with a phone and without, in fact without the battery stay charged for almost 1 week. Secondly is the charger which is magnetic, so that our customers are not having the frustration of the USB cable pain.
We are here to get feedback, idea and of course help. Anybody is welcome to join us, we are also hiring so anything is possible. Of course we are a startup so we still need to pay salaries and bills but we are not willing to become rich but we are willing to build a trusted brand for IoT products and more precisely for smartwatch. I always say that OXY is a mission for me and not a company.
OXY is an acronym for oxygen, something that you need and that's required to humans to live.
Feel free to contact me @simple1i and we can discuss further our project. In the meantime I'll have a look at your links.
Oh I see Oxy. I do like the name Horology, that's what all good (smart)watch lovers are, there's an idea for a name of a smartwatch.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you decided to used Android because it's the cheaper/faster (way to get it up and ready) option? Do you have Playstore on the OXY? Google can be very awkward about this.
Listening to the tech' community is a good thing, but for a 'fine dining' watch the experts are few, you need the Horologists, the real trick to to know what opinions to take on and what to discard. Then its a matter of goods ideas/functions vs costs. This might be a tough one to address, but the OXY needs to be either better then the Moto 360 2's (rumoured specs) or similar with a lower cost. So far I'm impressed. I am waiting to see what Pebbles does with the I/O port on the back of their watch, what hardware add-ons will they come up with? A good future proof strategy for them to expand functionality.
I'll be in touch.
@simple1i it was not easy, we had to search for conflicts with other trademarks, copyright and we also needed something simple to pronounce considering that our product will be sold worldwide. OXY sound easy but it is still a nice sound to pronounce
Our PCB is an extension of Ingenic Newton2. We had to modify the plug for the display because the original one was not enough for round and square displays plus we added an heart rate, a vibration motor a different Bluetooth and a Lipo battery of 400mAh. We changed the USB port and overall we came up with the cheapest but more flexible solution.
Why? Because we have a public AOSP for Android 4.4 and Linux which means that our product can fit any development configuration without any license problems. Just use git, download our AOSP and create your own smartwatch.
Google play will be added later, as I said our goal is to provide an open platform with a default set of apps but without any license or warranty limit. Our license and warranty will cover only the hardware, about the software our customers will be able to fully customize the product.
For sure v1 won't be perfect, for sure we will need time to build up a community but based on the fact that we have an AOSP on git, that you can easily make custom apps with Android studio and that our price range will be lower than other android smartwatches, I think and hope that our product will be well known very soon.
Finally, we will run a crowdfunding but our mass production is already set. A big, big advantage compared to other crowdfunding campaigns
Unless Google has retroactively changed a number of things and not published it, official Google Services support (certification, service framework, Play Store, etc) is a no go. A couple of smartwatch manufacturers found out the hard way, one of which made it into tech news because of it. That's just one of many sites that covered it and I was working directly with Omate at the time this happened. The only smartwatches with official support run Wear, which requires partnership status.
Here's a good place to start
@Lokifish Marz partnership status is a no go. Also Pebble tried somehow to have a sort of partnership with Google, even if Pebble does not run Android at all, but they go a big no. Regarding Android WEAR, we have submitted in June 2 requests including draw, project details, hardware details and more and we never got an answer from anybody. We know that our OXY can run Android WEAR, we also took apart the SDK of Android WEAR to see how it works and at the end we choose to stay Open Source and give up on Google WEAR for now. Then in the future anything can happen, we are totally open to any conversation but our mission is to make an Open Source Smartwatch, so having a smartwatch locked down by Android WEAR .apk is not our business model right now. The giant Samsung has left Android WEAR and also OLIO did not even approach Google at all. Why? Probably because Google is taking some business decisions that cannot fit all watchmakers out there right now.
About Google Play, that's a different story. Our current hardware is better than Asus Zenwatch and the Moto 360 v1.0, the only limit for Google Play is the resolution. Our Round watch has a resolution of 400x400 while the squared has a resolution of 320x320 and we are using the same displays manufacturers used by LG and ASUS. But again, when you talk about smartwatch, you open a Pandora Box. It is the new business for any manufacturer, Forbes announced an estimation of over 30 billion dollars business between now and 2020.
But again, we can manually install Google Play and it just works fine, so what's the point here? We need first to create a community, distribute our product with a basic ROM so that users can receive notifications, phone calls, download and create watchfaces and all the things you want to achieve with a smartwatch. We have already setup an Azure play store where any developer can grab our SDK and our Genymotion virtual image, create apps and distribute them via our Cloud.
Then, probably next year, we will see how the things go and we will be able to present again a request to Google for both, Android WEAR and Google Play.
Again, I have spent now almost 1 year in R&D and I feel confident that Android WEAR is a closed business. You must be a big firm otherwise is a no go for now. About Google Play I am more positive but only time will say. For now we are focused on our website and marketing campaign, building a community and customizing our existing ROM and SDK. Btw, if you look at the potentialities of OXY, we have already a more powerful product in terms of frameworks and hardware, than a Pebble, which has sold more than 1,---,--- pieces between 2012 and 2015. We also got a conversation with Cyanogen which gave us a go to customize Cyanogen for OXY but at this point is worth to have our own Open Source Android version and move from there with the help of the community.
I get the issues with Wear and Google, I've been there multiple times. I also agree that open source is needed for the development community. The issue with not having Google Services support (Play Store) on an Android based smartwatch is that a fully stocked app store needs to be in place and filled with all big names like Facebook, EAT24 and the like and properly formatted to the display/UI/UX. If not, it severely limits your customer base. That's why many of the Chinese based smartwatches have had a hard time getting traction.
Now if you have a long haul plan that brings in average Joe smartwatch and watch buyer on, lets say, v.2 that's great. Keep in mind that after the multitude of less than stellar attempts by others, both xda and G+ can be very unforgiving. Especially if crowdfunding is involved.
This is starting to get into areas where private conversation may be justified so lets table this until after you make a decision. Then we can pick it up elsewhere.
@Lokifish Marz you got the point and probably you got it because you have been there before us. The only big difference thing is that we want to build a smartwatch, I don't think it would be of any use having a squeezed Facebook or Google+ app on your 400 pixels smartwatch. We are focusing on other criteria.
Motion track so that you don't have to press a button to view the time, real time notifications that when received turn on the display and show the notifications on top of the watch and many other watch oriented functionalities. V1 will give to crowdfunders a working "companion", a smartwatch that is a smartwatch, a companion app that can download .apk and install them and a decent SDK that allows developer to create custom apps and watchfaces or customize existing functionalities.
I am open to have a nice conversation with you guys. This month I'll visit China and Taiwan soon, where we are manufacturing the watches but it would be nice to setup a private call/chat for when I'll be back. Probably you know better than anybody else other members of XDA that may be seriously interested and involved in the project.
Update
We are preparing some VMs on Azure running Ubuntu LT12 with our Android AOSP source code.
Right now we have 3 versions for the AOSP: Android Square watch, Android Round watch, Ubuntu Touch.
Compilation is quite easy, for Android is something like:
./build/smk.sh --preset=oxy_v11_wisesquare_iwop
./build/smk.sh --preset=oxy_v11_naturalround_iwop
Next step for us is to host the whole repository over a public Git and distribute the Ubuntu VM so that anybody can start to download the VMs (already synchronized) and contribute. As soon as everything is ready I will open a different thread and start to have private conversations with the people interested in the OXY project.
Re: Ingenic Newton2 - (someone made this point) you can buy the Newton1 or Newton2 as a devkit, but you cannot buy the modules wholesale. So this isn't truly a SoM - it isn't meant to buy off the shelf and integrate into a product. It's meant to be a reference design that you can either copy, or tweak, or modify in to suit.
In other words, with Newton, you're still going to need to have someone manufacture and assemble PCBs, and it'll require a normal (and expensive, unpleasant) certification process. A true SoM would come pre-certified, making that process a lot easier (you still need to do a certification, but one one that's much less rigorous and costs a lot less)?
simple1i said:
Re: Ingenic Newton2 - (someone made this point) you can buy the Newton1 or Newton2 as a devkit, but you cannot buy the modules wholesale. So this isn't truly a SoM - it isn't meant to buy off the shelf and integrate into a product. It's meant to be a reference design that you can either copy, or tweak, or modify in to suit.
In other words, with Newton, you're still going to need to have someone manufacture and assemble PCBs, and it'll require a normal (and expensive, unpleasant) certification process. A true SoM would come pre-certified, making that process a lot easier (you still need to do a certification, but one one that's much less rigorous and costs a lot less)?
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@simple1i You got the point. We bought Newton2 and made our watch using 3D print. Later we joined IWOP (Ingenic Watch Open Platform) which is a custom version of Android but more powerful than WEAR and better designed. At that point Ingenic gave us access to resources that are absolutely not available to private, so you can purchase the Newton2 dev kit but you cannot go far without their IWOP platform.
After that, we joined a partnership with two manufacturers, which are partners of Ingenic, and start to built our PCB and changed the Display (the display of Newton2 kit sucks, it has only 130 DPI).
About certifications, there are two phases. First you need to be sure that your PCB is ready for mass production, second, when the smartwatch is ready, you have to make IFC and CE at minimum, depending on where you want to sell. And this is the most painful part cause especially for CE, the process is long and full of obstacles. Consider that products like Pebble or other crowdfunded watches were shipped without any certification cause they were T2 prototypes expressly produced for the crowdfund campaign.
It looks like a nice piece of kit - in fact I love the design, it actually looks like a watch! Unfortunately, I'm not really sold on the idea of buying a 'smart' device where there's a very good chance of there being zero app development. Android Wear is rubbish right now (and of course, as you say, is a closed platform which creates big issues for us 'experimental' types and smaller organisations like yours trying to bring a device to market) but at least it's a group of companies working towards a common goal - in my mind that's far more likely to foster a community of developers than yet another smartwatch platform with a small userbase which will depend on yet another third party companion app and the headaches that creates with ongoing OS updates and trying to properly handle notifications and other interactions with the host device. I love the Pebble platform and larger ecosystem - I find the hardware and usage model vastly preferable to Wear (passively lit displays and buttons vs backlit displays and touchscreens, though I prefer the black and white ones, the Time lacks the contrast that makes the OG so easy to use AS A WATCH.) but they're odd looking devices which are 'obviously' not normal watches (not that I care, but I guess most people do) and the companion app has serious issues - they tend to get fixed fairly promptly but other app updates cause new issues pretty frequently - I still can't figure out how to stop it giving me notifications from the GMail app twice... What makes you think you could even do as well as a company who easily garners the kind of support they do on Kickstarter (and hence probably has a sizeable budget for a development team)?
Azurael said:
What makes you think you could even do as well as a company who easily garners the kind of support they do on Kickstarter (and hence probably has a sizeable budget for a development team)?
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@Azurael you make a good point here.
I do not want to talk about WEAR because it's obvious that WEAR is the biggest market so far, but only because Google is pushing really hard to get tons of Watchfaces and Apps available for their platform. Also, comparing ourself to WEAR will sound very arrogant. We will never be able to become big like Google WEAR community and this is not the mission of OXY.
About Pebble, if you look at their backlog, most of the incoming releases have bug fixes and enhancements of the Firmware. And this is after almost 4 years (Pebble started in 2012). They sold their crowdfunding watch made of plastic, without heart rate, without AMOLED touch display and without microphone or speakers (1 version of pebble) for a range between 99$ and 149$. We will sell OXY for 199$ in PRE-SALE, and in my opinion that's a great deal compared to the hardware of the Pebble.
So, on our side we played the "partnership role" with Ingenic Semiconductor. Ingenic has developed an entire platform on top of Android AOSP called IWOP (Ingenic Wearable Open Platform). It is a set of APIs that allows you to achieve exactly the same results of WEAR but even more. It is designed specifically for Ingenic Hardware so it uses less energy, it is bug free because the hardware is tested and provided by Ingenic (so no issues with multiple smartwatches vendors) and it is already largely adopted in Asia. The advantage is that behind us there is a big hardware company which supplies already thousands of pieces to Chinese manufacturers, so it is in their interest to keep the platform up to date and bug free.
Of course we lack on apps, this is the only problem of OXY and I am totally aware of, but I am not worry about it. When Pebble came out, and same applies for WEAR, there were almost no apps or watchfaces available. After a couple of years of adoption the marketplace became bigger and bigger and now the two platforms are well known. Compared to Apple Watch, our SDK is way more powerful and more developer friendly.
We will play the same strategy here, except that we have already commissioned almost 100 apps to an external Software House in order to have a pre-set of free apps available on our platform as soon as we will be out with our PRE-SALE campaign. Than, we will start our "developer program" which will grant to each developer a free OXY smartwatch and access to all our documentation and articles. In addition to Pebble or WEAR with OXY you can also create your own ROM, your own Home Launcher and customize even the kernel. I am sure that many developers will be happy to put their hands on such a platform and get a smartwatch for free.
We have already discussed with Ingenic this topic and they are eager to expose their platform to the US/EU market, considering also that we will be the first company selling MIPS architecture in EU and US I feel confident that the gap about the lack of apps will be covered soon.
On the business plan, we will probably feed the platform for 2015/2016, so a low margin of profit will be generated but again this is not our plan (to generate money) but to make an open platform for smart devices. I think that it's important for us to explain exactly our mission in order to get the right amount of followers. Plus a bit of "viral marketing" would be beneficial too
Hardware talk
On the hardware side, could you have added more sensors if there was a need for them? And are any disadvantages for adding lots of extras sensors, like power consumption, over heating or less space to work on the PCB? Of course for every sensor you need an app for it.
Others might disagree with this view, that sensors make a device comes alive, the watch can sense more about its environment, just like a living thing. Also with the open source OS and SDK devs can make use of more of the sensors, making the watch a multi purpose device. I was hoping for a compass, it's one of those things that many won't use but like the idea of having it, just like a Swiss Army knife.
A barometer with a compass and heart rate monitor, could appeal to the sportsman. The Suunto watch gives nice weather icons to a good degree of accuracy. At least there enough sensors for the development of an app that can detect if the watch is being worn or not to stop certain functions like notifications and maybe even put the watch to sleep to save battery or have it on 'bedtime' mode.
Another advantage of having lots of sensors is that it makes the watch more of a stand-alone device.
If you talk about the Newton2 development kit the short answer is no, the long answer is yes, but with some re-design. We had to re-design the PCB of the Newton2 because we added an extra BlueTooth for iOS, an Heart rate sensor, a vibrating motor, a microphone and 5 speakers. Plus we re-designed the USB charge which is an extra PCB in the Newton2, while on our watch is into the same PCB.
Finally, the biggest and most complicated step is about the display. Newton2 use an MIPI interface specifically designed for their display, so in order to fit a Round and Square display from commercial companies like AMOLED Corp you have two options:
Make two PCB with two different MIPI, one per Display
Modify the displays MIPI to fit the same plug and play mechanism
We did not put a Baromoter because it is not easy to find a good provider and it does not deal well into mini PCB. About the GPS, we had one but we removed because it is absolutely battery drainer. If you run 3-4 hours with your GPS on the watch will end up without battery, while capturing the GPS from your Phone and streaming the amount of mt into the Watch app is way easier in terms of power consumption.
All weather apps that you see on Smartwatches are not using an internal barometer but they simply get weather conditions from a public HTTP API and stream the result into the Watch from your Phone.
What we have in additional is the WiFi so that you can run the watch in autonomous way, for example OXY can detect if you have internet on your watch, if don't then it grabs info from the internet of your Phone.
You can get fancy with sensors, we would to introduce in the future V2 more health sensors but it is early right now and you still have to deal with minimal space, each mm count.