Database Users

Is everybody happy? No pun intended.

My salt grain:
Moving from an i-mate JAM, I'm returning my JASJAR/V1640 to Vodafone.
1.- Too, way toooo heavy. And also too large.... Unable to be carried on a belt clip. Haven't seen anything so "odd" since the old Ipaq line. Does anyone remember the Phillips VELO?
2.- Short memory, really short. It doesn't even stand up against the "old" JAM. Having the same specs, 68 MB RAM is not acceptable for WM 5.
3.- Battery life is misserable. Again, facing the same day ussage, mine didn't come close to the JAM. And yes, I do have and use an SDIO WiFi card.
4.- I haven't really noticed any significant advantage on the OS side to justify the move from wm2003 SE. Not to mention incompatabilities.
5.- And last but not least, in this price range they should be doing better.
Maybe a future JASJAR II (Whatever the specs) will made the point for a change.
:-(
I'm alone? :wink:

Looking Glass - when people are posting exactly the same thread on why the JasJar II doesn't do 3D holographic projection, contain a neural net and can only transport mechanical, and not biological tissues through time, sometimes we just have to accept that these devices will never be perfect, so we have to live with their flaws and seek to improve them.
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Ouroboros
Every phone I've used has flaws, sometimes critical flaws, but it's a buyer's market - we shouldn't have to accept less then 100%, but we're phone hacking geeks :wink:
V

@vijay,
happy to accept devices are not perfect but so many online reviews of the Universal claim this is the best device ever, the best Smartphone. But the shortcoming are too basic (poor call quality, flaky BT, unstable PowerSave etc) and therefore I like 'Looking Glass' am not too happy given the retail price of this device. I suspect the next HTC device will be better as they will learnt from the shortcomings of the Universal.

I don't like the Universal very much personally. I use my Magician as my main phone, and only use the Universal for development.
I like its screen, but it's large, heavy and slow.
However, I want a device with a large screen, VGA screen, camera, and the latest OS.
It has 2 cameras, built in wifi, 3g, a nice keyboard and many other features. The new OS has major teething problems, but all in, you get a great technical piece of equipment. Know what you want and why, and be prepared to tweak the hell out of it.
It has major flaws, and it's not a very good phone until you get a good bluetooth setup and voice command on it. But it probably is one of the best phones money can buy right now, from a hardware point of view. But if it's not a good phone, why buy it?!
V

I love the Universal (xda exec). It allows me to surf very fast wherever using 3g, and play games, and also email and sms and skype when I am away from home. It has my address book and vital documents. The screen is sharp and larger then most things out there. It weighs nothing in my backpack and I find it mostly very reliable, including BT & wifi.
Point to note: I do not use this as my voice cell phone. In my view it is a mistake to use this kind of device as a phone. Its too large for evenings out and the battery life compared to phones is small. It is a super PDA, not a cell phone substitute. If people want a light cell phone with great battery then buy a nokia or motorola. If you want a smartphone (the whole concept of which I hate, as without a decent screen no programmable device is useful) then then orange c500 is great (Typhoon).
rgds

I agree with point 5, this is not quite the machine it should have been for $1,000. Where's our 96mb RAM and USB host that had been listed in the pre-release versions? I think the size, weight, and battery life are acceptable given the form factor and features. Honestly, whenever take my JasJar out of the case I can't believe how slim it actually is!
Overall I'm really pleased with my JasJar right now. My main concerns were sluggish performance but the new ROM has made a significant improvement on that front. Are the "features" we gained with WM5 worth the upgrade from the previous OS? Eh... maybe not. It's nice to not have to worry about data loss due to a dead battery but I think I'd prefer the better performance we got from our 2003SE PE devices.

Interesting points here and I find myself agreeing with most of them.
I've been using a PPC for a number of years now and the Universal for me was just a natural upgrade from the hx4700 I had before. I got mine at the end of December and have yet to make a voice call on it.
However I do find myself using it a lot for picking up mail, spreadsheeting, web surfing and lots of PIM work - all things the hx4700 did very well but the Universal's built in keyboard works so well that I don't think I can have another device without one now.
WM5 does to me seem a worthy enough upgrade. Not having to worry about losing data is the killer feature and again one I won't go without again. Everything else seems a slight advance on WM2003SE which is good enough for me.
I got mine from O2 - £200 up front, £23 a month for the 36mb tariff and I got £50 cashback. All in that will make it about the same as I paid for the hx4700 so I am very happy.
I was that impressed with the concept that I bought a Wizard from O2 in a similar way - £70 up front, £12 a month with £30 cashback. That one is my main phone (work paid for sim card is in it so I'm paying a fixed amount) and is also very good.
These are my first PDAs not from HP and so far I am happy with the choices I made.

I have been reading this forum but seldom posted anything; but this time I want to express that I love universal
Moving from I-mate Jam, I especially love the universal VGA screen. I read books a lot using my PDA phone and using universal my eyes are becoming much more comfortable.
I also like the keyboard, which suits me a lot who types over 50 sms/day.
Size is big, but I'm getting used to it now

I have only had my Orange SPV M5000 for 3 days, and flashed it with the new ROM yesterday. It doesn't seem that slow compared to my Jam.
Sure it is a monster. I swore I would never get one.
But I would be hard pressed to give up the VGA and keyboard now. Reading books and email were my two main applications, and the extra space is great. Browsing with WiFi is also much more usable.
Time will tell if I get too frustrated with WM5!

It is only a matter of time...
I would like to tell the world that my man and I are very happy with our Qtek 9000s. It truely is a modern feat for the PDA & Ppc PE world! A true convergence device. True there are quirks about performce wise but just give it time and people especially the ones ever present in xda forum and buzzdev will tweak it to the maximum. I love wm2k5 and is a big step compared to 2003SE! I have a Himalaya and I have seen it grow from wm2003 to wm2k5 and what a great story it is. I know deep in my heart the Uni will follow in the foot steps of the Hima! It is just a matter of time!
My respect and admiration for the people who make our devices run a revolutionary as well as technological roller coaster ride namely Buzz, Tofclock, ViJay, vivi, DotFred and many others more. More power and let the eternal light of tech wisdom shine upon you!

Yep, its big & heavy & sometimes a bit slow, but I would not go back to using my Blue Angel. I use this device as my only phone, for SatNav, email and web surfing. I've not used the Wizard, so can not really compare it, but it looks like many people will prefer it to the Universal, but I chode the Universal for 3G i.e. 384K networking
I really love the VGA screen and proper keyboard and the the bluetooth and Wifi implementations seem better than the Blue Angel's. As for memory, I install most programs on my 4Gb SD card so I still have some storage left, but I agree that 128Mb would have been better, especially since TomTom insists on using 9Mb of it for UK postcodes
If your major use is as a phone, then this isn't the device for you. It is adequate as a phone, but its true value lies in the PDA and networking functions.

The Universal for sure has the best screen I have ever seen on a mobile device and the keyboard is also very good. Surfing with WiFi using Opera (not PIE) is a dream. eBook reading is great as long as you don't use DRM ebooks stored on the SD card and use the PowerSave option (MS Reader can have problems when you re-activate).
But why does WM5 functions (settings etc) not use the VGA capability? Why is the BT signal so weak so that at 2m it struggles? Why the need to reboot every few days? Why the delay on incoming calls? Why make a device that is fantastic in some areas and very weak in others (e.g. no soft menu keys under the screen when you want you want to use it in PDA mode)?

I am very happy with my XDA Exec. I got mine because my kids broke my trusty Dell Axim X3i PDA and the fact that the Exec is also aphone was just a bonus. As a PDA it is everything I wanted and more! One question I have for Looking Glass is why are you using an SDIO Wi-Fi card on a device that has buit in wireless?

UH OH !!!
I'll keep schtum on this one guys ;-)

vijay555 said:
and it's not a very good phone until you get a good bluetooth setup and voice command on it. But it probably is one of the best phones money can buy right now, from a hardware point of view. But if it's not a good phone, why buy it?!
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RE: recent thread titled "The Biggest Problem with the Universal"
Vijay, (no disrespect sir) but after all that shenanigans a few weeks back..... it is a phone and not a PDA with a phone or whatever??
(whoops... there I go again!)
Cue Gajet, SiliconS, so on and so forth :lol:

philtech44: I didn't really read that thread, but my opinion is based on practicality. I wear a suit all day, and see a lot of guys struggling with XDAs through the day. I'm very happy with my Magician in my pocket (!), but no suit would last long with a Universal in my pocket. Hence, it's not a very good phone for me merely on the basis of size/weight. But, I'll be the first to say that its hardware is near unsurpassed: I love the VGA screen, makes 'net browsing feasible.
So, I can't imagine a very good middle ground: it has great hardware, but that requires a large size. Thus for me, it's a very well equipped PDA, that happens to have phone features. But with a good bluetooth headset etc, I can leave it in my case and pop it out when required (!). But I'd still rather have a Magician with a fold out VGA screen :wink:
V

whilst we are on about how to make the universal perfect:
1. Case made of titanium alloy
2. Screen fills lid completely - 800x480
3. 1mm thinner base
4. CDMA2000 and EDGE for travelling to the US
5. HSDPA (for 3mbit 3g in europe)
6. Double, or more, battery life.
7. Intel 2700 3d accelerator
8. Compact flash slot
9. nintendo ds cartridge slot and emulator (screens side by side on 800x480) - ;->
10. Wifi g and new n standard
11. Driver and cable for ipod (to stream videos). Would not want a hard disk as (a) it drains battery, (b) I can upgrade my ipod when high capacities come out without upgrading my PDA
12. 128 or 256 mbyte program memory
13. Dual or quad core ARM cpu (circa 2020 !!)
I wouldn't change the form factor one bit. Its very comfortable for a micro-computer. As I have mentioned before, I have a small cell phone for calling, would never use this kind device as a main phone.
)
rgds

@colonel,
my Vaio laptop's normal battery gives me 6.5 hrs battery life so better battery life should be possible. But I think HTC should fix the basics before trying to add features for features sake. I think the next bunch of HTC devices will be much better than the Universal (HSDPA already planned). Regarding memory, my 14 month old Nokia 9500 has much more user memory then the leading edge Universal (80mg versus 30mb). I see the radio, BT and memory as basic features that should be very good given the USD900 price tag of the Universal.

jah said:
@colonel,
my Vaio laptop's normal battery gives me 6.5 hrs battery life so better battery life should be possible. But I think HTC should fix the basics before trying to add features for features sake. I think the next bunch of HTC devices will be much better than the Universal (HSDPA already planned). Regarding memory, my 14 month old Nokia 9500 has much more user memory then the leading edge Universal (80mg versus 30mb). I see the radio, BT and memory as basic features that should be very good given the USD900 price tag of the Universal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you compared the battery size between of your Vaio? Batteries are fairly standard capacities per size right now, and its going to take a new breakthrough for us to really gain more battery time.

Re:TyTN possibly knocked off its Throne!

A Device to Surpass the 8525?
Will there be one soon? within the next 2 or 3 months or so? I know when I got my 8125 the 8525 came like in 5 months or so after. I just sold my 8125 and I am currently using a Motorola RaZR for backup. B4 I go purchase the 8525, i want to know is there a sequel coming any time soon so I can save my money and wait? And Do people really think dishing out the cash they did to upgrade was a good choice? Thx alot for the responses and sorry if this was a repeat I didn't see anything of it yet.

I feel understand your hesitation.
I got myself the i-Mate K-JAM (HTC Wizard) late last year after a bit over a year with the i-Mate JAM. I thought I'd be using that new phone for at least year.
And then the HTC Hermes was released. I couldn't justify spending more money after recently upgrading my phone. But thankfully, my telco offered a deal I couldn't refuse for the Dopod 838 Pro, so I happily took it up.
Hopefully, there won't be any new releases that warrant a change!
But more than simply the release of new handsets, I wish HTC would stop changing the type of memory card that their phones accept. From SD to mini-SD, and no the micro-SD! It's a hassle having to go out and buy a new card AGAIN each time you get a new phone! hehe

I remember when i got my first phone and I'm not even sure how i even came to even own a PPC it all started with a T-Mobile MDA-II,SPV C500,SPV M500,T-Mobile MDA Pro and now T-Mobile MDA Vario II i could not even wait for the 8525 to come out so i got a MDA V II and most of the phones that came out were not even available here i always thrown the money for a new phone that came out never felt it was a waste just go for it

I remember reading during the summer that they were going to release after the Hermes a 128mb of ram Pocket PC.

thx all for the responses, i know the memory card is annoying but the companies making the memory cards are prolly paying HTC money for more sales on their new products by switching out the memory cards. I hate it wen companies do that kinda stuff.

most probably the "next" hermes will be the HTC Herald, have a look at the specs:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Herald

My vote is the Cavalier would be the next killer phone before the Herald.
Check out my comparison of the Hermes vs Excalibur
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=287684

pof said:
most probably the "next" hermes will be the HTC Herald, have a look at the specs:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Herald
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the herald is a follow up to the wizard. I am just basing that off of the cpu and the improved hardware buttons.
Later, Lew

The i-mate SP JAM Communicator looks like it could definitely trump the Hermes:
(it's the second phone discussed in this article)
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12/06/i-mate_roadmap/
Built-in GPS and A2DP, 256 MB flash, TV-out, and possibly a 532 MHz processor.
Sounds like we may see it soon, too (Feb 07).

Re:TyTN possibly knocked off its Throne!
Is it just me and a couple of other people, or does the spec of the upcoming Athena not sound closer to what we wanted out of the TyTN, bar size of course. I'm still in limbo presently, but if the 'updated specs' are true, I'm getting pretty exited about it.
Check the news thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286884
And no, it is not the next HTC Universal, more like the first HTC PPC/UMPC or UMPPC.lol

good lord, how do you talk with that thing?! It'd be like holding a ghetto boombox up to your head.

specs are cool.. but i would have to stick to my hermes.. that thing looks like to much of a hassle... that device would make it totally impossible to text and drive.. i mean, not that i would do that, that would be unsafe

The specs sound fine but..but...but... I use a seven inch mini computer with full specs and 2.4 Ghz processor / CD/DVD RW etc etc and runs Windows XP/Vista. This mini computer, with all that, is only marginally bigger than the Athena!! Obviously Id rather have my mini computer cos it's got everything.
For travelling, casual use, fun and lets be honest the challenge and size I would have the Hermes not Athena.
So for me its
1. Full size 20 inch PC
2. Mini (but full spec) PC for travelling but still good 7 inch screen
3. TyTn Hermes small enough to be a phone but lots of other things besides - cos let's face it phones by themselves are just boring!
Mike

Re: WM5 UMPPC? Or Dual Boot Technology?
mikechannon said:
The specs sound fine but..but...but... I use a seven inch mini computer with full specs and 2.4 Ghz processor / CD/DVD RW etc etc and runs Windows XP/Vista. This mini computer, with all that, is only marginally bigger than the Athena!! Obviously Id rather have my mini computer cos it's got everything.
For travelling, casual use, fun and lets be honest the challenge and size I would have the Hermes not Athena.
So for me its
1. Full size 20 inch PC
2. Mini (but full spec) PC for travelling but still good 7 inch screen
3. TyTn Hermes small enough to be a phone but lots of other things besides - cos let's face it phones by themselves are just boring!
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't argue with you there Mike.
mackaby007 said:
I can't lie. I'm thoroughly confused as to which is the most ideal portable solution for my needs. One thing is for sure....I want only one device to carry around and it must pretty much do all things. I love the power and 'real configurabilty' of a WinXP/Vista UMPC, not to mention the 'real' and 'actual' 'processing capabilities' i.e. I can still video edit, download (at proper speeds) and actually get the true browsing experience as was intended by whichever website I venture to, not to mention play the occasional PC game in glorious DirectX 3D with high resolution and no need to encode video files to a suitable codec and resolution.
However, Coreplayer is improving in leaps and bounds and can already play my Ripped DVD's in native format, albeit the 400Mhz CPU struggles a little, so theoretically speaking, with a 624Mhz CPU (or more if overclocked), videoplayback shouldn't be an issue in the Athena. Games is really neither here nor there to me, as I rarely play them (I just like to have the choice), but there are some great titles already on WM5 and they are sure to improve as PPC CPUs' improve in power and performance.
Pocket IE and other mobile browser variants are acceptable for now, but still seriously lacking compared to their XP counterparts, but still doable, providing screen real estate is improved via a bigger screen in VGA mode (covered in the Athena).
Storage doesn't seem to be an issue with the Athena as it supposedly will ship with at least 8GB of HDD (battery drain problems), but this can be overcome with the larger iminently released 8GB+ SD Cards etc which can be used for Program installations and the in-built harddrive for storage capacity.
Then you can't ignore the communication advantages of mobile broadband/HSDPA, 3G Video conferencing and GSM, not to mention in-built GPS!! Damn....I think the confusion is lifting...I'm starting to sway towards the Athena or such like devices.
Then there's the Graphics accelerator. If they can get that ATI chip to be a little more versatile and possibly stick their top end mobile accelerator in the Athena, we'd be a lot closer to the UMPC format, which I prefer but without the bulk.
To be able to hook up an external hard drive via USB for 'true mass storage' would be a deal clencher for me. But every one has their own needs and desires in the devices they choose to buy, but for me, the Athena is getting pretty damn close if the specs thus far are genuine.
See here:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/21/htc-athena-x7500-a-umtshsdpa-quad-band-UMPC/
and here:
http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/articles/htc-athena-en.shtml
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So as you can see, there are reasons to go for the all in one solution, but as we all know, it comes down to personal preferances, however, it looks like some other interesting developments are on the horizon that incorporate both WM5 and Full XP/Vista software and PC hardware. Sort of Dual boot options, but no specs as yet.
See here:
http://www.4winmobile.com/viewtopic.php?t=4179

That thing looks huge... I keep my Hermes in my front pocket - I doubt I could do that with that phone!

hrmmm,,,,
maybe notebook manufacturers will need to develop a bag/case with a shoulder strap for this upcoming device.
I think too much convergance in technology can be a bad thing. it is better to have a device specific to your needs and does the job transparently (as in my case) than an all in one device that is "clumsy" and you spend most of your time on debugging the technology, not using the technology to become more efficient in your work.
my 3 cents....
My devices (what is in my office at the same time):
* Work PC desktop with 20" LCD (no screen alignment issue there...lol) - used for word processing and email/browsing.
* Sun Microsystems Ultra workstation running Solaris - namely used for integrated circuit design and intensive simulations of complex telecommunications scenarios
* Rohde and Schwarz - Vector Signal Generator (gsm/umts test vector generation for ASIC hardware testing)
* R&S - spectrum analyzer
* R&S - baseband signal analyzer
* Asus S6F 11.1" notebook - mainly used at home and when travelling (camel leather casing, sweet)
* Imate JASJAM - used 40% of the time for email when out of the office and liasing with industry, and 40% for voice, 20% mucking around
*lava lamp (so retro i know)
It will be nice to have all of the above in one nice device, i just need someone to carry it around for me....lol

Did I mention my Wimshurst Machine (so 19th Century) but great for that moment when the battery goes flat.
Oh and my new project is to find a way to greatly extend battery life so the old Wimshurst Machine becomes obsolete on my travels. As you will see below I can manage to charge myself up ok, just can't quite mange a slow voltage controlled release into Hermes tends to disappear in a blue flash when I shake hands with anyone (perhaps a large capacitor is the answer.) (Courtesy of Hermes vs Van De Graaff productions 2006)
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mikechannon said:
Did I mention my Wimshurst Machine (so 19th Century) but great for that moment when the battery goes flat.
Oh and my new project is to find a way to greatly extend battery life so the old Wimshurst Machine becomes obsolete on my travels. As you will see below I can manage to charge myself up ok, just can't quite mange a slow voltage controlled release into Hermes tends to disappear in a blue flash when I shake hands with anyone (perhaps a large capacitor is the answer.) (Courtesy of Hermes vs Van De Graaff productions 2006)
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nice vandegraff mike,
the problem is, it creates thousands of volts, but merely any amperes. it would take for ever to charge the 1350mah battery.
You should maybe try a jacobs ladder. we just finished building one. you cab place the hermes in between the spark of the two electrodes.
the hermes will receive one hell of a 'shocking' charge.

Listen after 3 hours on the Van De Graaff you don't really care about anything anymore!!
And.... so... er......you don't think it'll work then??
Mike

ok mike,
this is what you need to do.
fly to melbourne and visit science works (http://scienceworks.museum.vic.gov.au/about_us/lightroom.asp)
our university has a high voltage theatre there
ask the exhibition operator to place your hermes in the path of the lightning strike (2 million volts).
If it survives, then you have atleast 3 years usage without recharge.

Performance out of the box?

I still have my Tf700T.
I am curious for those that already have this tablet, how is the performace straight out of the box (stock)?
My buddy has the tab 2, and it seems to flutter when moving screen to screen.
Is this any better?
Besides the screen resolution, can anyone compare the performance of the note to the Infinity?

You can find a few reviews on Youtube which clearly demonstrates the performance out of the box:
Unboxing and preview - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elFOFD1UNzQ
Demonstrations - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUxFN5kwS9E and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brfs6bjZ5h4
Edit: I can't see any stuttering or microlag at all so I believe the performance out of the box is excellent!

lardo5150 said:
I still have my Tf700T.
I am curious for those that already have this tablet, how is the performace straight out of the box (stock)?
My buddy has the tab 2, and it seems to flutter when moving screen to screen.
Is this any better?
Besides the screen resolution, can anyone compare the performance of the note to the Infinity?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't compare it to the TF700 but compared to the OG 10.1 it's night and day. It never stutters and transitions are incredibly smooth. The browser's also very impressive. Don't forget that the TF700 suffers from the typical Asus quality issues, doesn't have 5GHz Wi-Fi, and has horrible I/O bottlenecks. Those bottleneck are why the N7 gets such ****ty AnTuTu scores. It would be great if the Note had a HD display but it's a trade off against S-Pen and overall performance.
Here's a full test and some benchmarks:
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/300...iew-high-end-tablet-but-lacking-in-resolution

By far better than the asus, multitasking brings many new creative ideas to ics, its more useable now, ready to replace your laptop on the go !
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

kloodee said:
ready to replace your laptop on the go !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to the two-years of 50GB Dropbox storage, Polaris is multi-view enabled and now saves/accesses files you store in Dropbox. I hope Samsung comes out with a BT keyboard like the OG 10.1 had.

Do you think that the multi-screen thing is the power of this GNote 10"1 ?
We can see some apps already in the market (browser with Overskreen, video players...) for others tablets.
Do we need these benchmarks when the screen is not HD ? Can we compare these with HD Tablets ?
Do you think that it is an expensive tablet ?
S-Pen is a gadget ? I am a student, I already tested GNote and we can't do anything with the S-Pen, keyboards are much better for students. Maybe for those who like drawing, a little ?

The pen is a better choice for any student who studies a technical field. Equation, diagrams, annotations are all important for good notes. Even for non students, meeting notes are impossible to take with any decent accuracy on a keyboard. The conversations often jump around too much and there are a lot of visual representations used (again probably not true for all occupations, but anything that requires technical knowledge).
The smart shape stuff also looks awesome for drawing diagrams for presentations. We are a visual people, and the pen is the best instrument for drawing anything.
Infact I'll go one step further. No scientist I know thinks at the keyboard. Everyone thinks with a pen/paper or on a white board. When you are brainstorming its almost impossible to think about typing but sketching out ideas with a pen feels natural.

StiiLe said:
Do you think that the multi-screen thing is the power of this GNote 10"1 ?
We can see some apps already in the market (browser with Overskreen, video players...) for others tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Teg3 might be able to run some of the split screen apps but good luck with 1GB of RAM. The Note has 2GB of RAM for a reason.
Do we need these benchmarks when the screen is not HD ? Can we compare these with HD Tablets ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Benchmarks are meaningless. They do help calculate an individual devices performance. Do you have a problem with apps opening too quickly, transitions being too smooth, or tons of apps running well at the same time? If you don't care about those things any gen-one Teg2 device will meet your needs. The comparison to an HD tablet is that it's not an HD tablet. The other stuff was more important to me than HD. Most here will agree or they wouldn't have bought a Note. Asus and Acer aren't the kings of quality either which after following the Prime has pretty much sworn me off of Asus.
Do you think that it is an expensive tablet ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
S-Pen is a gadget ? I am a student, I already tested GNote and we can't do anything with the S-Pen, keyboards are much better for students. Maybe for those who like drawing, a little ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use it for handwritten notes quite well. It also converts handwriting in to text. There's a big difference between taking notes on a phablet and a real tablet. Also the G-Note's only dual-core with 1GB of RAM so it's slow in comparison.

@redviper666
"The pen is a better choice for any student who studies a technical field. Equation, diagrams, annotations are all important for good notes."
I am a student-engineer, scientist field, and we were talking about this tablet with colleagues. We won't use a tablet for equation, diagrams or annotations. Definitely not, you are wrong. We tried to imagine, but a paper and a pen is much better for this. S-Pen won't help us, but it would slow down our note taking.
If we need to write a report, or an article, we won't use it either. On one hand, we use to work with a big resolution, then we can visualize all the document, make some modification easily. On the other hand, we are more effective with a keyboard. For example we use to be on computer with Word, and there already are very good stuffs for equations, diagrams... It's easy and "neat". We would use S-Pen for rough copy maybe, but again we were talking about take a stylo, and a paper.
I see S-Pen like this : "It is useless, then it is essential". I exaggerate. But a keyboard is very much better, we can't write something with S-Pen. Even with a stylo+paper, we are faster with a keyboard. A mouse and a keyboard are irreplaceable.
"Even for non students, meeting notes are impossible to take with any decent accuracy on a keyboard."
Then, until now, we couldn't do it ? Keyboard is the best way. I can prove you, Pen is really not easy compared with keyboard. When I am in a conference, I will write with a physical keyboard (ASUS TF700) or a capacitive keyboard (GNote 10.1), tell me if you see professionnals using S-Pen. Impossible.
"The smart shape stuff also looks awesome for drawing diagrams for presentations. We are a visual people, and the pen is the best instrument for drawing anything."
Presentations are not drawing. Again, we always have one hand on the mouse, the other on the keyboard. Then, with Powerpoint, we can easily put a diagram with the mouse (we know exactly how to do of course, if not you are not a good worker), and write in with the keyboard. Drawing a circle to put a diagram won't help us... I can bet 1000$ that we won't see it in companies, in conference, in key-note...
Maybe you want to have fun doing a rough copy (again) with a GNote, but we don't need to buy a GNote 10.1 to make a rough copy.
"Infact I'll go one step further. No scientist I know thinks at the keyboard. Everyone thinks with a pen/paper or on a white board. When you are brainstorming its almost impossible to think about typing but sketching out ideas with a pen feels natural. "
Mathematicians would use paper and stylo of course. A big part of engineer would use keyboard to write reports, or a brainstorming. Again, and again, and again, we really don't need a graphic (tablet) or a GNote to use a paper with a pencil, for rough copy. It's much easier and faster with our actual paper. Generaly, we use keyboard anyway.
@BarryH_GEG
"Teg3 might be able to run some of the split screen apps but good luck with 1GB of RAM. The Note has 2GB of RAM for a reason."
Actualy, 2 GB of RAM is too much !
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I can easily use split screen with Overskreen or video player with 1 GB !
"The other stuff was more important to me than HD. Most here will agree or they wouldn't have bought a Note. Asus and Acer aren't the kings of quality either which after following the Prime has pretty much sworn me off of Asus. "
Okay, I don't want fanaticism for Samsung, or a devotion for our personal choice to convince ourselves. But I am going to put some arguments against yours, without thinking about Samsung or ASUS/Acer, just features.
Now, do you really think S-Pen is more important than HD / Full HD ? Having fun 2 days with your pen on S-Note (capacitive keyboard is a huge thing when you want to write something). Polaris Office is better with HD / Full HD, and split screen would be very very good on GNote with Full HD ! I can't see what do you think about when you say "other stuff" ?
Tablets are very good for multimedia, and sometimes to write reports with a physical keyboard, or even capacitive. Both using useful with Full HD. What do you think about ?
Do you think that it's easier to write a report (or an article) with S-Pen ?
S-Pen is only for small drawings with "Draw Something" apps ; and if you want to draw precisely, you need 300 dpi (3500 x 2600), or at least 200 dpi (2400 x 1600). That's a gadget, really not necessary.
"I use it for handwritten notes quite well. It also converts handwriting in to text."
Try a physical keyboard.
We are much faster with a keyboard, particularly if you need to converts it in to text. I don't need to be precise if I need to draw a small drawing on my "rough paper" with a standard capacitive screen.
Personally, I suggest that we should create our company. Then we create our tablet with :
- PLS technology (GNote screen with his S-Pen), it could be useful if I listen to you
- Full HD technology on this
- ASUS Keyboard on this
- iPad anti-reflection technology
This would be the perfect tablet !

StiiLe said:
I can bet 1000$ that we won't see it in companies, in conference, in key-note...
Maybe you want to have fun doing a rough copy (again) with a GNote, but we don't need to buy a GNote 10.1 to make a rough copy.
Mathematicians would use paper and stylo of course. A big part of engineer would use keyboard to write reports, or a brainstorming. Again, and again, and again, we really don't need a graphic (tablet) or a GNote to use a paper with a pencil, for rough copy. It's much easier and faster with our actual paper. Generaly, we use keyboard anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what kind of engineer you are, but the amount of scratch paper that is sitting on my work desk is immense. I have killed many poor trees sketching free body diagrams, making rough calculations, and writing short-hand notes for all of the projects I do (structural engineering). Making reports for submittal is merely a small part of what is done and typically when i'm working on a project my computer screen is on sleep mode because I have no use for it.
I would much rather use the S-Pen and have my notes easily accessible if a client or co-worker were to ask me a question.

I think we need to get a Notecore Kernel http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1749863 for the Tab as well!
I run it on my normal note and it made it much faster and responsive and also battery lasts longer.

cocoajumpo said:
I'm not sure what kind of engineer you are, but the amount of scratch paper that is sitting on my work desk is immense. I have killed many poor trees sketching free body diagrams, making rough calculations, and writing short-hand notes for all of the projects I do (structural engineering). Making reports for submittal is merely a small part of what is done and typically when i'm working on a project my computer screen is on sleep mode because I have no use for it.
I would much rather use the S-Pen and have my notes easily accessible if a client or co-worker were to ask me a question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, I had read his post. Curious.
I have been pulling my hair out about this. I have quite a few things (calculations) that take up about twenty pages. Now, it takes me half of my time organizing the mess. I have maps just to guide me thought this! This can be rather stressful :laugh: . Tablets are generally really uncomfortable, and pen a paper is not. But the pulp is just messy, and I've got to try to get out from under this. IYKWIM.
Of course you can get really good at Mathmatica or Mathcad, and that I do also (not the 'really good' part), but it's even more uncmfortable.
Oh I know, you think "Twenty pages of calculation" He must be a genius. Answer: No, a genius would do it in one page, or in his head. I'm an idiot
Anyway, this new variety is pretty cool. Me thinks.

StiiLe said:
Comments
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a student-engineer, scientist field, and we were talking about this tablet with colleagues… …I see S-Pen like this : "It is useless, then it is essential". I exaggerate. But a keyboard is very much better, we can't write something with S-Pen. Even with a stylo+paper, we are faster with a keyboard. A mouse and a keyboard are irreplaceable. Even for non students, meeting notes are impossible to take with any decent accuracy on a keyboard. Then, until now, we couldn't do it ? Keyboard is the best way. I can prove you, Pen is really not easy compared with keyboard. When I am in a conference, I will write with a physical keyboard (ASUS TF700) or a capacitive keyboard (GNote 10.1), tell me if you see professionnals using S-Pen. Impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really shouldn't impose your personal opinion or that of a small group of people you associate with on others. For the majority of meetings I'm in it would be considered rude and inappropriate to be hammering away at a keyboard when you should be focusing on the body language of the people in the meeting and the person speaking at the time. For those situations, the Note is perfect. Maybe your attitude will change when you’re no longer a student and in business (vs. technical) meetings.
Actualy, 2 GB of RAM is too much !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't follow Android devices much, do you? The Adreno GPU in the new S4 chip reserves 350MB of RAM for itself. With only 1GB of RAM available multitasking is abysmal. Why do you think the U.S. SGS3 with the S4 chip has 2GB of RAM? Samsung doesn't give away RAM (and profit) without reason.
Okay, I don't want fanaticism for Samsung, or a devotion for our personal choice to convince ourselves. But I am going to put some arguments against yours, without thinking about Samsung or ASUS/Acer, just features.
Now, do you really think S-Pen is more important than HD / Full HD ? Having fun 2 days with your pen on S-Note (capacitive keyboard is a huge thing when you want to write something). Polaris Office is better with HD / Full HD, and split screen would be very very good on GNote with Full HD ! I can't see what do you think about when you say "other stuff" ?
Tablets are very good for multimedia, and sometimes to write reports with a physical keyboard, or even capacitive. Both using useful with Full HD. What do you think about ?
Do you think that it's easier to write a report (or an article) with S-Pen ?
S-Pen is only for small drawings with "Draw Something" apps ; and if you want to draw precisely, you need 300 dpi (3500 x 2600), or at least 200 dpi (2400 x 1600). That's a gadget, really not necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a non-sensical rant. I have a HTC One X so I'm no Samsung fanboy. The performance and features of the Note are better than any Android tablet on the market (for now). Asus has a poor reputation for quality as you can see on the front page of any of their devices in this forum. Including the new N7. They don't offer 5GHz Wi-Fi, have I/O issues because of the cheap NAND they use, and have problems using BT and Wi-Fi streaming concurrently because they use AzureWave vs. Broadcom radios to save money. If you think HD is more important than those things, nifty. Not everyone does.
Try a physical keyboard. We are much faster with a keyboard, particularly if you need to converts it in to text. I don't need to be precise if I need to draw a small drawing on my "rough paper" with a standard capacitive screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone cares about a keyboard. Especially those that use their tablets primarily for consumption. The faux-MS Office products on Android are crap and the incompatibility with most corporate products make them inappropriate as laptop replacements. If keyboards were so important Asus' market share would be higher and everyone would be imitating them. It's not and they aren't.

I feel offended. I'll try to answer a little bit.
@cocoajumpa and @BarryH_GEG
"You really shouldn't impose your personal opinion or that of a small group of people you associate with on others. For the majority of meetings I'm in it would be considered rude and inappropriate to be hammering away at a keyboard when you should be focusing on the body language of the people in the meeting and the person speaking at the time. For those situations, the Note is perfect. Maybe your attitude will change when you’re no longer a student and in business (vs. technical) meetings."
I was student, and now my job is working on some projects, we often call it "sales engineer", and I have to defend a project with his pro & cons, and of course his prices. Then, very often, I have to send e-mail, or write reports after a meeting. Most of the time, my job isn't technical anymore. I better need a Full HD (for an overall view of the document) + Keyboard.
My colleagues (and me) are still using real computers during the meetings, and we are all taking notes on the keyboard while someone is talking, I can take photos to prove it to you, Barry. Maybe that you will be impressed, but during the meeting, some of them are directly putting down their report and we receive it just after it ends... I can't believe that they can talk and write a professional report at the same time, but they use to do it.
I have never seen someone with a paper+pencil in business meeting ! Or even with a tablet and capacitive pencil, or now GNote10"1. The standard is and will be keyboard, isn't it ?
I read something about Office on Android, that Microsoft is working on it for the end of 2012, or Q1 2013. Can you confirm it ?
"You don't follow Android devices much, do you? The Adreno GPU in the new S4 chip reserves 350MB of RAM for itself. With only 1GB of RAM available multitasking is abysmal. Why do you think the U.S. SGS3 with the S4 chip has 2GB of RAM? Samsung doesn't give away RAM (and profit) without reason."
Are you telling me that 1 Gb of RAM is not enough at all ? TF700 is bad for example if you would use Overskreen or something like that on it ?
We must have 2 Gb for multitasking on Android ?
"This is a non-sensical rant. I have a HTC One X so I'm no Samsung fanboy. The performance and features of the Note are better than any Android tablet on the market (for now). Asus has a poor reputation for quality as you can see on the front page of any of their devices in this forum. Including the new N7. They don't offer 5GHz Wi-Fi, have I/O issues because of the cheap NAND they use, and have problems using BT and Wi-Fi streaming concurrently because they use AzureWave vs. Broadcom radios to save money. If you think HD is more important than those things, nifty. Not everyone does."
I'm not Samsung fanboy either, but I really like their GNote 2. As a phone, S-Pen could be cool for taking notes, for a non-professional (at all) using.
I would like you to put down your real thoughts : ASUS are making very bad products ? Everything goes wrong ?
About performance, Note is the best and others are far away behind ? Aren't they approximately the same, out of the box ?
If keyboards were so important Asus' market share would be higher and everyone would be imitating them. It's not and they aren't.
We can't compare ASUS marketing service, and Samsung marketing service... I think ASUS can be proud of them when we see their sales. Do you think that keyboards will disappear ? Don't you think that we will see more and more keyboards ?
About my opinion, I like this PLS technology, and as I said I would like to buy GNote 2 then. But on a tablet, I would prefer Full HD, for multimedia and even for profesionnal using. At this moment, the issues you are talking about have not unsettled me at all. But when I read you, I would be totaly insane to buy a TF700 instead of GNote10"1.
If I think HD is more important than those thing, nifty... What do you mean... am I blind ? Am I totally wrong ?

Barry, +1.

StiiLe said:
By the way, I'm not aggressive at all, I'm just trying to see the using of this S-Pen which makes the GNote10"1 amazing for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the difference between my comments and yours. I'm not an engineer and have no idea how practical the S-Pen is in an engineering environment. If the Note were meant exclusively for engineers Samsung wouldn't be offering it as a mass market device and would instead sell it through Samsung Business directly to the engineering field. Perhaps the small percentage of others here who are in engineering can have the debate you're looking for. The launch event tomorrow that's costing Samsung several hundred thousand dollars isn't for a product dedicated to engineering. Something to think about in your critique.
I bought the Note for its performance over everything else. I had a Teg2 OG G-Tab and it was painfully slow and Nvidia not including NEON in the GPU made it horrible for video playback. These are the things that made me buy the Note:
1) CPU/GPU/RAM
2) Multi-view
3) Annotation
4) Taking notes in meetings
5) Exceptional web browsing
6) Samsung's audio and video codec support
7) Useful features like Awake Stay, Pop Up Play, AllShare Cast, and Buddy Photo
8) Rock solid build quality
P.S. - I followed the Prime from its launch. After that, I'd never even consider an Asus tablet regardless of features or cost/benefit.

im a electrical engineering student with a focus in power and electronics, and in all my class there is a lot of schematics, graphs, and math. a regular tablet with a stylus is not the same as a pen with a active digitizer. you can add a keyboard to a tablet but you can add an active digitizer to a laptop. ive tried using my laptop in class and its difficult. in my field theres not that much words to type, just name of the equation and little side notes here and there. using the number pad on a laptop to do equations is slow and difficult. using a mouse or trackpad to do graphs and insert text box here and there is the same. my professors also hand out alot of printed or post online pdf notes, so having the ability to edit and add notes on the pdf on a tablet would be more ideal. yes i can do that on the printed version but by week 3 my backpack is filled with paper.
your technical field must involve more typing but mine doesn't. i have reports to do too, but those reports are usually due in few days; in which i can go home and use my pc for excel and word or even use my bluetooth keyboard with polaris. the note really just apply more to people with the need to write/draw on a tablet. i guess that need would have to be enough to overlook the FHD of the Asus infinity or ipad3. if i didnt need to write so much i would go for the infinity. i do a lot of reading too and i would like to get back into gaming, which is all perfect for the FHD, but it is just not on top of my list. keep in mind, android at the moment has not adapted to FHD yet. 500-600$ (hofully for a wifi version of the note) is a lot, but even though thats a lot of money i know i will upgrade in a year or two for a new tablet and by that time im sure there will be a FHD with active digitizer tablet; and hopefully a majority of android and apps will be FHD by then also.
i am still going to wait a few weeks to buy the note, just to see if any problems come up. if theres a select few that may weigh the note and the infinity the same to me, then i will get the infinity instead. worst case i can get a Adonit Jot stylus for it. the infinity just has a better longevity and better support. where as the note is ideal for my situation at the moment.

BarryH_GEG said:
Here's the difference between my comments and yours. I'm not an engineer and have no idea how practical the S-Pen is in an engineering environment. If the Note were meant exclusively for engineers Samsung wouldn't be offering it as a mass market device and would instead sell it through Samsung Business directly to the engineering field. Perhaps the small percentage of others here who are in engineering can have the debate you're looking for. The launch event tomorrow that's costing Samsung several hundred thousand dollars isn't for a product dedicated to engineering. Something to think about in your critique.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I understand. I wasn't talking about engineering at the beginning, but multimedia part.
I read someone or even you talking about S-Pen to take notes, that's why I talked about my personal opinion : I take note with keyboard. But as denniegst said, it depends on our using. For the professional part, I think most of us would need keyboard, which is easier and faster, but you think S-Pen is better.
On the GNote 5", S-Note doesn't recognize everything, particularly when we have to write something fast. Is it improved ?
BarryH_GEG said:
I bought the Note for its performance over everything else. I had a Teg2 OG G-Tab and it was painfully slow and Nvidia not including NEON in the GPU made it horrible for video playback. These are the things that made me buy the Note:
1) CPU/GPU/RAM
2) Multi-view
3) Annotation
4) Taking notes in meetings
5) Exceptional web browsing
6) Samsung's audio and video codec support
7) Useful features like Awake Stay, Pop Up Play, AllShare Cast, and Buddy Photo
8) Rock solid build quality
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Teg3 has been improved and it includes NEON now. We can watch 1080p videos even with the "Power Saving" mode, only the "companion processor" is on.
1) I understand, but other tablets are not so far right ?
2) I can understand it too, even if there are apps for it too (overskreen ...). That would be a great thing for TF700.
3) and 4) I disagree, but that's personal using. So I can understand (difficult but ok )
5) For me the web browsing is much comfortable with HD or Full HD. But maybe Samsung made a very good browser, I didn't see this part.
6) I don't see the difference, I can read everything.
7) These applications are not needed for me, or I can download similar on the markets.
8) This GNote10"1 is built with the same plastic as GNote 5" ?

StiiLe said:
That would be a great thing for TF700.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you here to discuss the Note or to reinforce your purchase of an Infinity? Other than the 1080P display, the Infinity is inferior in every way to the Note. The exception being the hard keyboard option if that's a deciding factor. That and perhaps gaming and not based on performance but the games that are designed and available specifically for Tegra. No matter how big an Asus fan anyone is you can't look at the forums on XDA and not draw the conclusion that some of their choices for materials and how they're assembled aren't questionable. My year-old OG G-Tab was dropped more times than I can count including tumbling down a flight of stairs. It looked as good as new up until the end. I'd love a 1080P display, unfortunately it wasn't available to me in a package I found desirable or worth premium pricing.
Are you ignoring the benchmarks on the first page? The Note trounces the Infinity and every other Teg3 tablet available by a wide margin. And it feels in everyday use exactly how the benchmarks reflect it. Until you use it you'll have no idea how much better it is at just about everything. I'll post some video of some more taxing stuff like watching HD video in a browser when I have time.

StiiLe said:
I am a student-engineer, scientist field, and we were talking about this tablet with colleagues. We won't use a tablet for equation, diagrams or annotations. Definitely not, you are wrong. We tried to imagine, but a paper and a pen is much better for this. S-Pen won't help us, but it would slow down our note taking.
If we need to write a report, or an article, we won't use it either. On one hand, we use to work with a big resolution, then we can visualize all the document, make some modification easily. On the other hand, we are more effective with a keyboard. For example we use to be on computer with Word, and there already are very good stuffs for equations, diagrams... It's easy and "neat". We would use S-Pen for rough copy maybe, but again we were talking about take a stylo, and a paper.
I see S-Pen like this : "It is useless, then it is essential". I exaggerate. But a keyboard is very much better, we can't write something with S-Pen. Even with a stylo+paper, we are faster with a keyboard. A mouse and a keyboard are irreplaceable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea what kind of scientist you are but I write papers in Tex, and I think on a paper/pen. Switching to a digital tablet is invaluable for me.
I give a lot of presentations and they have a crap load of complex data flow diagrams. Not once have I felt comfortable making that stuff in power point. I use Visio for these diagrams and I import them into powerpoint. If I could make them on a digital tablet I'd personally be ecstatic.
Don't take it the wrong way, but if you think a big part of being an engineer is writing reports, you aren't a worthwhile engineer. Sometimes we have to write papers, sometimes we have to write reports but the big part of being an engineer or a scientist is thinking. And like I said, when I am brainstorming I can't do it with a keyboard.
Now clearly you are a lot smarter than I could ever be. Clearly. Good for you imo. But I am personally looking forward to the note 10.1 with baited breath.

Acer Iconia W3 Tablet

Has anyone had the chance to use\test this tablet? On a scale from 0 to 10 what would you rate it? What are the pros and cons? Any feed back would be appriciated. Thanks.
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http://www.microcenter.com/product/414898/Iconia_W3_Tablet_PC_(W3-810-1600)_-_Silver

sinister1 said:
Has anyone had the chance to use\test this tablet? On a scale from 0 to 10 what would you rate it? What are the pros and cons? Any feed back would be appriciated. Thanks.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/414898/Iconia_W3_Tablet_PC_(W3-810-1600)_-_Silver
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm very pleased with my one week old one. 9 out of 10. It fulfils my needs for full windows on a tablet and makes similar sized android tablets look a bit silly, at least in respect of what you can do. But if your need is just for multimedia (and gaming I suspect) look elsewhere.
Pros:
Low price for a full Win 8 machine, and you get Office Home (for small screens) thrown in.
Very quick, hardly any lag or waiting whatever you're doing.
Battery life like the best android tabs (this was the biggest surprise). 8 to 9 hours light use. Only uses about 5% battery overnight on standby and wakes immediately.
Nicely put together hardware; feels solid (within the limitations of a cheap product). All sockets work nicely and should last.
Full USB2 host, although you have to use a (provided) adapter cable. Even seems to power a portable hard drive. YMMV.
Cons:
Screen not stunning. It's only TFT and optimised for portrait use, so in landscape, as you would tend to use Windows, left-right viewing angles are pretty poor. For work it's fine, for multimedia less so, difficult for 2 people to watch at once. Which is a shame, as the hardware acceleration seems to cope with any movie you throw at it, and smoothly. Brightness and contrast are OK though, as is resolution. I wouldn't want to use it for photo viewing.
Wifi is a bit erratic, mainly because the antenna is somewhere under where yout left hand sits when using landscape mode. In portrait mode it would be fine.
Automatic light sensor in the wrong place for landscape use - you tend to cover it with your left hand. Best to disable it.
The 32GB model only has about 10GB available to the user. It does support 32GB microSD though.
Finally, for anyone wanting to actually carry it around out and about, quite possible as it's small and light enough, there are issues. Even when it's powered right off, a short (rather than long) press on the power button turns it back on. And, when it's put on standby, even though there's a swipe operated standby screen, the timeout of this screen seems to be the same as the standard timeout. So if you've set 10mins before standby, this lock screen also takes 10mins to turn off. Doh!
Don't hesitate to ask anything I might be able to answer

Pete_S said:
I'm very pleased with my one week old one. 9 out of 10. It fulfils my needs for full windows on a tablet and makes similar sized android tablets look a bit silly, at least in respect of what you can do. But if your need is just for multimedia (and gaming I suspect) look elsewhere.
Pros:
Low price for a full Win 8 machine, and you get Office Home (for small screens) thrown in.
Very quick, hardly any lag or waiting whatever you're doing.
Battery life like the best android tabs (this was the biggest surprise). 8 to 9 hours light use. Only uses about 5% battery overnight on standby and wakes immediately.
Nicely put together hardware; feels solid (within the limitations of a cheap product). All sockets work nicely and should last.
Full USB2 host, although you have to use a (provided) adapter cable. Even seems to power a portable hard drive. YMMV.
Cons:
Screen not stunning. It's only TFT and optimised for portrait use, so in landscape, as you would tend to use Windows, left-right viewing angles are pretty poor. For work it's fine, for multimedia less so, difficult for 2 people to watch at once. Which is a shame, as the hardware acceleration seems to cope with any movie you throw at it, and smoothly. Brightness and contrast are OK though, as is resolution. I wouldn't want to use it for photo viewing.
Wifi is a bit erratic, mainly because the antenna is somewhere under where yout left hand sits when using landscape mode. In portrait mode it would be fine.
Automatic light sensor in the wrong place for landscape use - you tend to cover it with your left hand. Best to disable it.
The 32GB model only has about 10GB available to the user. It does support 32GB microSD though.
Finally, for anyone wanting to actually carry it around out and about, quite possible as it's small and light enough, there are issues. Even when it's powered right off, a short (rather than long) press on the power button turns it back on. And, when it's put on standby, even though there's a swipe operated standby screen, the timeout of this screen seems to be the same as the standard timeout. So if you've set 10mins before standby, this lock screen also takes 10mins to turn off. Doh!
Don't hesitate to ask anything I might be able to answer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WiFi should penetrate through your left hand without issue, I doubt that is the issue. Human flesh is near transparent as far as WiFi is concerned, bone may well be a factor though. But regardless, the antenna in these devices should not be so short that your hand can completely cover it. Only other thing I can think of is polarization, most wifi routers are polarized and as such most wifi devices have antenna with bends and kinks etc etc so that they can pick up multiple polarisations regardless of orientation, I highly doubt polarisation is the issue, I highly doubt the antenna is short enough for your hand to effect it when I can hold my phone with both hands entirely engulfing the device and still stream data from wifi while outside in the garden a fair old distance from the router.
It actually supports the entire SDXC spec supposedly so should take a 64gb card and when they are release 128 (the spec actually accounts for card capacities upto 2tb however we dont have the technology to manufacture 2tb nand flash within an SD package obviously).
That 32gb is partially consumed by the recovery (about half of it). If you follow the many guides online for creating a USB recovery drive, then test the drive to confirm that it both a) works and b) you know how to use it (common problem) then you can safely remove the recovery partition built into the device and free up a huge chunk of space.
What adaptor is required for the USB host? Is it just a standard microUSB male to USB A female as used on many android devices or is it something proprietary?

SixSixSevenSeven said:
WiFi should penetrate through your left hand without issue, I doubt that is the issue. Human flesh is near transparent as far as WiFi is concerned, bone may well be a factor though. But regardless, the antenna in these devices should not be so short that your hand can completely cover it. Only other thing I can think of is polarization, most wifi routers are polarized and as such most wifi devices have antenna with bends and kinks etc etc so that they can pick up multiple polarisations regardless of orientation, I highly doubt polarisation is the issue, I highly doubt the antenna is short enough for your hand to effect it when I can hold my phone with both hands entirely engulfing the device and still stream data from wifi while outside in the garden a fair old distance from the router.
It actually supports the entire SDXC spec supposedly so should take a 64gb card and when they are release 128 (the spec actually accounts for card capacities upto 2tb however we dont have the technology to manufacture 2tb nand flash within an SD package obviously).
That 32gb is partially consumed by the recovery (about half of it). If you follow the many guides online for creating a USB recovery drive, then test the drive to confirm that it both a) works and b) you know how to use it (common problem) then you can safely remove the recovery partition built into the device and free up a huge chunk of space.
What adaptor is required for the USB host? Is it just a standard microUSB male to USB A female as used on many android devices or is it something proprietary?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of the supposed penetrative capability through hands of 2.4ghz signals, I can say for sure that the hand holding the tablet at bottom left when in landscape mode causes a 4-5 bar signal (in a room directly above the wifi location) go down to 2 bars at best, sometimes 1 bar. It's quite repeatable. It might be the reason the W3 gets poor reviews in respect of wifi performance? It's a very poor internal antenna location for, what should be, a landscape device.
My phone, incidentally, prefers to be held at the bottom for best wifi performance, or at the top for best 3G!
It's good to hear higher capacity cards are supported as I didn't see a mention of SDXC, though I guess that's a function of windows rather than the hardware.
As regards drive space, I believe the 32GB model doesn't have a recovery partition, instead getting a recovery DVD, whereas the 64GB model has the recovery partition and no DVD. This is what I've read, anyway. Checking with windows disk management tools shows a couple of extra partitions of 500MB and 100MB at the "start" of the disk which appear to be unused. I don't think you could fit recovery files in that sort of space. I don't know what they're for.
The 18GB or so which you can't use simply seems to be windows, with page and hibernation files, plus the preinstalled stuff. I'm certain you could reclaim some of it. My main use is at home with a network drive, so I'm quite happy with what's left.
The adapter appears to be a standard off-the-shelf item, as you say microUSB to standard USB female.

Disabling hibernate will also free some space (by default, the hiberfile is the same size as your RAM, so it can be pretty significant). While hibernate on a mobile device is usually really nice, on a tablet I don't see the need. Any use case that involves putting it on the shelf unplugged for longer than you'd want to leave it in sleep mode should be fine with powering it off instead.
The main uses I have for hibernate are either:
A) Full-disk encryption (BitLocker) where sleep mode is less secure (because the decryption key can be recovered from the still-active RAM)
B) Emergency power-down for critical battery level (without losing any work).
Although these use cases are significant, for most people A is irrelevant and B isn't vital. Sleep mode at 10% battery remaining would still last you all day.
EDIT: To disable Hibernate, do the following:
Run an elevated CMD prompt (you can do it by right-clicking on the Start button, or selecting Command Prompt in the Start screen and choosing Run as Administrator from the app bar).
Run the following command (without the quotes) in the elevated prompt: "powercfg -H OFF"
You may want to then adjust your power profiles, if they were doing things like entering hibernate when the battery got low, so they do something else instead.

Yeah I got one too. Found it at staples for $269. I also have a Lenovo yoga, and while the Acer is obviously slower, its fine for something so small and cheap. I'm pretty happy with it. I do have one issue, and I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing it. Sometimes when plugged in it gets REALLY hot on the back. When it gets this hot, it seems to stop charging. Anyone else experiencing this?

vinscuzzy said:
Yeah I got one too. Found it at staples for $269. I also have a Lenovo yoga, and while the Acer is obviously slower, its fine for something so small and cheap. I'm pretty happy with it. I do have one issue, and I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing it. Sometimes when plugged in it gets REALLY hot on the back. When it gets this hot, it seems to stop charging. Anyone else experiencing this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't own the device so I can't have experienced this is course but I do have a fair bit of electronics knowledge. Most chargers are a higher voltage than the battery. Usually you use a switch mode regulator to drop 5v to 4.5v or so in a phone efficiently, but that's not a clean 4v signal and its still too high, you then use a capacitor to try to clean up electrical noise on the 4.5v signal and then feed it into a low dropout linear regulator to drop it to just over 3.7v for the batter, this will be a clean signal unlike the switchmode regulator however linear regulators do get very warm (can actually harm yourself on them). Often there is a polyfuss thrown into the mix aswell, essentially a self resetting fuse which is triggered with heat. I have seen in some Chinese devices to save cost they just use a linear regulator to go straight from 5v to 3.7ish, way way hotter, sometimes enough to trip the polyfuse effectively disconnecting the charger. It is possible Acer have also used a cheaper circuit or poorly located polyfuse which is tripped under normal charging conditions or your device may genuinely be faulty. A bit of heat when charging is normal though, heat in the charging signal is one if the reasons your supposed to turn your device off when charging, reduces the current draw which then reduces heat produced by any regulators on board the device.
A short could also be causing the problem

vinscuzzy said:
Yeah I got one too. Found it at staples for $269. I also have a Lenovo yoga, and while the Acer is obviously slower, its fine for something so small and cheap. I'm pretty happy with it. I do have one issue, and I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing it. Sometimes when plugged in it gets REALLY hot on the back. When it gets this hot, it seems to stop charging. Anyone else experiencing this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It gets warm underneath the rear camera about where the Acer logo is. This happens under normal use or when just charging it, but It gets even warmer in the same location when charging whilst using it. I've not had it actually stop charging yet.
Might be best to not use it whilst charging and also place it screen down to help the heat escape. I often do this with phones and tablets because heat shortens the life of Lithium cells.
I've not witnessed *really* hot, but certainly uncomfortable for my left hand hot.

about the display
Pete_S said:
Screen not stunning. It's only TFT and optimised for portrait use, so in landscape, as you would tend to use Windows, left-right viewing angles are pretty poor. For work it's fine, for multimedia less so, difficult for 2 people to watch at once. Which is a shame, as the hardware acceleration seems to cope with any movie you throw at it, and smoothly. Brightness and contrast are OK though, as is resolution. I wouldn't want to use it for photo viewing.
Don't hesitate to ask anything I might be able to answer
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Click to collapse
I have a question about the display. I previously used a surface rt bought from Curry's for £279 I thought the price was very low and I would be able to live without installing win32 apps but that was a huge mistake however I was able to sell my rt for £220 and saw one iconia w3 on eBay for £260 as I want a full windows tablet but also on a tight budget would it be worth buying iconia for £260 because I saw lots of review they all said the display is terrible. Is it that bad?

The display isn't the best but I have no problems reading with the Kindle app, watching movies or playing games. I love using my W3, I even sold my Note 8.0. I have a Surface Pro and this is the perfect companion device. I don't have to make any compromises or find similar programs to use.
I am a Marine and we live in the Windows world and use our ID's (combined access cards) to log into the network and various DOD websites. Using my W3 and a USB cac reader I am able to do my work on the go. The only thing it is missing is the digitizer that my Surface Pro has. If it had that I would be 110% satisfied. Hopefully someone comes out with an 8in Windows 8 device with a digitizer. I would never have to carry pen and paper again.
I have the 64 gig version, first thing I did was disable hibernate and remove the recorvery partition. I also installed a 64 gig SD. I have 18 gig free on the hard drive and 16 free on the SD. I keep media on the SD card and use the hard drive for games and programs. Also being able to just plug things in without rooting it or resorting to other tricks makes it worth it. I can just plug in an external and read it. The Nexus 7 and Note 8.0 could to but I had to download an app and root them to be able to do that.
If you want Windows in an 8 in form factor get the W3. Also it is rumored that Acer will be releasing a refresh to the W3 with a better screen since that seems to be the largest complaint people have against the device. I am unaware of anyone else releasing an 8 in Windows device, there are rumblings that Microsoft could be in the works for a 8 in Surface. Who knows but right now the Acer W3 is the only one out there and it works very well.

big_b0sss said:
I have a question about the display. I previously used a surface rt bought from Curry's for £279 I thought the price was very low and I would be able to live without installing win32 apps but that was a huge mistake however I was able to sell my rt for £220 and saw one iconia w3 on eBay for £260 as I want a full windows tablet but also on a tight budget would it be worth buying iconia for £260 because I saw lots of review they all said the display is terrible. Is it that bad?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The display isn't terrible. 2-3 years ago it would have been great, it's just that everything nowadays seems to come with a wide viewing angle screen, making the W3's seem old fashioned. In other respects (brightness, contrast) it's a nice screen. The difficulty comes when you're watching a movie side by side. To the left it goes quite dark, to the right it's bright and rather washed out. If you are watching it head on, it's no problem at all. In day to day use you forget any shortcomings. The reviews always pick on something and exaggerate it.
I agree with sactownbwoy; I love my new W3; it does everything and is an absolute bargain for the price. My poor Asus android tabbie spends it's time in the cupboard now

sactownbwoy said:
I have the 64 gig version, first thing I did was disable hibernate and remove the recorvery partition. I also installed a 64 gig SD. I have 18 gig free on the hard drive and 16 free on the SD. I keep media on the SD card and use the hard drive for games and programs. Also being able to just plug things in without rooting it or resorting to other tricks makes it worth it. I can just plug in an external and read it. The Nexus 7 and Note 8.0 could to but I had to download an app and root them to be able to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Thanks for the quick reply. Would you please tell us how did u remove hibernate and recovery partition. I have just ordered a 16gig model from eBay I know it will have about 8gb of free space but its OK I will OK with it. Would be so nice if I can free up another gig
Sent from my GT-I9505G using xda premium

Please search before posting. Disabling hibernate and removing the recovery partition were discussed *ON THIS VERY FORUM* less than a week ago!

sactownbwoy said:
I am a Marine and we live in the Windows world and use our ID's (combined access cards) to log into the network and various DOD websites. Using my W3 and a USB cac reader I am able to do my work on the go. The only thing it is missing is the digitizer that my Surface Pro has. If it had that I would be 110% satisfied. Hopefully someone comes out with an 8in Windows 8 device with a digitizer. I would never have to carry pen and paper again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The smaller Windows 8 devices that have been shown are more in the realm of competing with cheapo Android devices and the poorly specced iPad mini. They're almost throwaway devices. I can only see a decent 7/8" tablet coming from Lenovo, Sony or Samsung, unless MS decides to make a Surface that small, but I doubt they would put a digitiser on it, because again, MS is looking at those devices as being budget tablets.

sinister1 said:
Has anyone had the chance to use\test this tablet? On a scale from 0 to 10 what would you rate it? What are the pros and cons? Any feed back would be appriciated. Thanks.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/414898/Iconia_W3_Tablet_PC_(W3-810-1600)_-_Silver
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Click to collapse
So far I have very mixed feelings about the tablet. I have two of them now. On the first one, the lower half of the screen was black and as the unit warmed up, the screen would start flashing then eventually work. I sent it back to Acer (I got it from them at a conference) for repair. They replaced some stuff, shipped it back and the result was a unit with a cracked LCD screen due to poor packaging. I'm expecting the repaired (2x) unit today so we'll see how that unit fairs.
The second unit seems ok so far. I haven't done much with it other than charge it up. The keyboard stand is nice but it would have been better if the keyboard had come with a mouse pad. Still, I ordered a Bluetooth mouse for it and we'll see.
So far I prefer my Surface Pro.

I have the 64gb unit - give it a 7/10 so far.
I'd be keen to know how far people have got dual booting the device, or inded instaling a different operating system such as Android x86 or Linux/Plasma Active..
I've found the boot selector/bios but so far it wont boot from any of my devices. Although I will try a SSD tonight I have laying around.
./P

phazey said:
I have the 64gb unit - give it a 7/10 so far.
I'd be keen to know how far people have got dual booting the device, or inded instaling a different operating system such as Android x86 or Linux/Plasma Active..
I've found the boot selector/bios but so far it wont boot from any of my devices. Although I will try a SSD tonight I have laying around.
./P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clovertrail processors are locked in their UEFI firmware to windows 8.

I would definitely recommend seeing one in person before buying, I bought and took it back within an hour, the screen is terrible and Wi-Fi only worked with in about 10 ft of my router
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I have the 64 gig model and I'm very happy with it. Even though it doesn't have an active digitizer for working with Wacom pens, the screen is the best I've ever used with a capacitive stylus. Could the display be sharper? Yes, but it's no worse than my 17" laptop. I've been impressed with the development of the Atom processor. I think Intel needs to rename them because the mere mention of an Atom processor might turn away some buyers. If you're serious about picking up one of these tablets, wipe any reviews you've read and interact with it first. Some of the posts here look as if someone read the spec sheet and dismissed it as a "throwaway" tablet without even touching it. Be your own reviewer.

Looneytoon98 said:
I have the 64 gig model and I'm very happy with it. Even though it doesn't have an active digitizer for working with Wacom pens, the screen is the best I've ever used with a capacitive stylus. Could the display be sharper? Yes, but it's no worse than my 17" laptop. I've been impressed with the development of the Atom processor. I think Intel needs to rename them because the mere mention of an Atom processor might turn away some buyers. If you're serious about picking up one of these tablets, wipe any reviews you've read and interact with it first. Some of the posts here look as if someone read the spec sheet and dismissed it as a "throwaway" tablet without even touching it. Be your own reviewer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree with you on the atoms they perform very well including the one in this tablet if not for the problems I mentioned above I would have kept it but I picked up a 10 inch w510 for now and I'm going to buy the 8 inch Toshiba windows tablet when it launches in a couple months. The display is hard to explain it almost looked like it was wet the entire time I was trying to use it.
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Impulse buy

I picked this device up as a impulse buy to replace my Note 8 and even though there was quite a lot of negative talk about this phone mostly for the software I have to say I don't regret my purchase in terms of why I bought it. I was considering the Z Fold 2, but couldn't justify wasting THAT much money for something I'd most likely break just using it (screen). Anyway, the Duo has been a great multitasking device so far. The only area I'm highly disappointed by is not so much the crappy potato camera, but the fact 1. it takes soooo long to deploy the camera ready to take one. 2. the gigantic f$%&ing delay when taking a picture vs when the camera shutter sound signifies it took a picture. I'm hoping that future updates resolve this phones issues although it sounds like there hasn't been much attention given other than this past January... At any rate, I've bought a few things to improve the usability of this phone. Magnetic usb-c cable for charging and data transfer (miss Qi charging...) and added screen protectors. Finally made some vinyl overlays for the outsides and used CF for grip although negated when the screens are folded open.

Looking forward to receiving mine next week to finally try dual screen. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the Note 10 I've been using for the last year or so, particularly for battery life. Also heard it doesn't support ARCore which will be disappointing as was key to one of the main uses I wanted this phone for.

Pretty cool
A lot better build than any of the Folds...

wez_p said:
Looking forward to receiving mine next week to finally try dual screen. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the Note 10 I've been using for the last year or so, particularly for battery life. Also heard it doesn't support ARCore which will be disappointing as was key to one of the main uses I wanted this phone for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I think you'll be disappointed straight away. You'll have to forget most of what you expect a android phone, much less a phone to be and learn how to navigate Microsoft's version of Android and a duel screen (not all Microsoft's fault and the nature of duel screens). With that said if you get comfortable enough with how they want you to do things you may start to love it more than any single screen phone and not want to go back. While I feel pretty adjusted and comfortable with using it for what it is as I was intending. With that said I've run into a few situations where the Duo will just NOT replace a phone at least a flag ship like what I was used to with my Note 8. I don't know if this good or good enough, but I can take the Duo off the charger, go to work, have the bluetooth connected to my headset, playing video, screen at around 15% brightness, be browsing the net or social media at the same time the video is playing and after my 8 hr shift be at around 10-5% battery left. Or I can do a charge for about an hr and a half? and be at around 80 - 90%? Not sure what ARCore is. Let me know if you need any info or help, although in some ways still learning myself.

blackhawk said:
Pretty cool
A lot better build than any of the Folds...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I feel like I'd have wrecked the screen if I had a Fold. I'm not hard on devices, but I still expect it to hold up since I have to use touch so much to interact.
I've changed the outer protectors since this original post. Since I have the ability to make my own vinyl stuff I've been experimenting with a logo. The CF was too big and was peeling at the edges so I needed to adjust the size of the vinyl and cut a new one out. My laptop for comparison to cover the stock logo.

vipfreak said:
Thanks, I feel like I'd have wrecked the screen if I had a Fold. I'm not hard on devices, but I still expect it to hold up since I have to use touch so much to interact.
I've changed the outer protectors since this original post. Since I have the ability to make my own vinyl stuff I've been experimenting with a logo. The CF was too big and was peeling at the edges so I needed to adjust the size of the vinyl and cut a new one out. My laptop for comparison to cover the stock logo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, the Folds are designed to self destruct like a Mission Impossible tape... brute force not needed
This isn't intended as a phone per se but I really like the way it's hinged and its conservative but innovative solid design.
A sharp micro laptop... Gene Roddenberry would have loved it.
I'm very interested to hear what your experiences are like with it. It a cool hybrid

blackhawk said:
This isn't intended as a phone per se but I really like the way it's hinged and its conservative but innovative solid design.
A sharp micro laptop... Gene Roddenberry would have loved it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely agree. It's really nice hardware. Speaking of which I will watch re-runs of Star Trek TNG if it's on some times.
blackhawk said:
I'm very interested to hear what your experiences are like with it. It a cool hybrid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My primary use case is in "Nintendo DS" view where I have a screen for video playback on top and then I'm browsing the net, social media, or games on the bottom screen. This is where I think it shines the most. My second use case is like regular phone with one screen mostly for ease of typing like replying to a text message. A cool use case that I haven't done all that much is book view where I have youtube open playing a video and doing whatever on the other screen. This view is primarily nice if I have music playing off of youtube because usually if you try to multi task and youtube will stop the music and close the app entirely. With the Duo I don't have to worry about youtube taking up the screen since I have a secondary one. Something a single screen can't do. Why don't I pay youtube? I'm cheap and part Chinese. lol...

Hi,
Well, given the massive price drop from Microsoft, I decided to go for one that I bought from the MS Store directly.
Openend the package and powered up the device. Well, first thing is you will probably have to wait for 30 minutes for the successive updates to apply... Not really nice on a device that still is 800€ after 50% rebate, but OK.
Once powered up and ready to go, the first impression is amazing. The build quality is about the best you can get. The displays despite what reviewers write, are splendid. And the "Duo" panels are just amazing. App are installed super fast (not sure what memory they used, but here is it indeed pretty fast) ; GPS is super accurate ; communnication areoud and clear and so that is all good
But unfortunately, that only last for some time... And then the problems arise :
- no Led or outter display : you don't have a watch. You'll have to grab the device and open it just to know what time it is. You got a notification ? Same thing just to see what arrived. Even worse : you get a phone call ? You have to grab your phone, open it, see who's calling... and half the times, you'll miss the call because you weren't fast enough !
- the hinges ? Superb piece of craftmanship. Honestly. They feel super solid. They have the exact balance between being stiff enough to allow the displays not to move by themselves but still not to be too difficult to operate and unfold. But once your device is open and if you display, say a webpage, in "full screen" (so on both displays) then you'll just have a gap and so some parts of the page won't be legible... I thought MS would have worked on a seamless displaying of the pages when in "full screen", but no. They went the easy route ;
- the way the dual display are working is totally confusing. When I launch an app, it sometimes will display on the left panel, sometimes the right one. Why ? No idea. But that is OKAY. A little more problematic : let's say that I am using my web browser in full screen (on both displays). I get a notification that I got an e-mail. I go to recents and check the mail, then go to recents again to go back to browser... it works, but will go back to single display, not "full screen", so I have to drag the slider again to have full screen. Maybe I would be able to live with that. But on my device, one of the displays randomly decides to power off. I have to close the Surface Duo and reopen it to get the second display back. That really doesn't fill me with confidence in durability :-(
- and then there is the battery. It's melting like snow in hot summer day. I am used to 5kAh batteries that last almost a week-end given my usage. I know MS wants to mimick some of Apple's features, but why taking the worst and choose the same battery power ? Here, playing a simple game like "Cody Cross" and I will be out of juice within 2h30...
I will not talk about other small glitches, like the MS launcher, which in the Surface Edition is simply a joke ; the fact that some apps will not work in the Surface ; the incredibly poor camera (I don't care, I don't use it but did they even gave a look at the smartphone reviews where the stupid reviewers can take away 1 full star out of 5 for a smartphone just because it's camera is not stellar ?) ; the lack of accessories (proof that it simply hasn't sold)... and some other details.
But the ones I described earlier will probably get me to send the Surface Duo back to MS.
Will wait until September 22 to do that.
Let's see what they'll release on Surface Duo 2...
Because I really would like to love it and justify spending 800€ on a smartphone !
Regards

I bought mine Amazon $419 just to play and get to know - it is a fun device - I couldn't justify the Fold 3 which I had been using contemplating. If I trade this in for a Duo 2 and get US $250+ it's all good.
It fast charges really quickly. It can get to 40C and yes it drains battery terribly.
Even SwiftKey seems buggy - whole thing is more prototype than a finished product - they should be paying us!
But I think I'll wait for Android 12 at this point. 11 is a great already a year old. Also the I like to wait 4-6 months anyway for the any issues.

Hi,
If the Surface Duo was sold in France for 400€, I'd keep it too
But best brand new price I've found here is 800€ (for 256GB model) unfortunately.
This is why keeping it is a question for me :-(