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Dear Eris Users who Are Waiting for Root,
I'd like to start by addressing all of you as a large audience. I may ask certain groups to leave. I hope they will respect that wish and then come back and join the larger group when I am done with each piece.
We all got the Droid Eris from Verizon. We all got it for different reasons. A lot of you, if not all of you, are here because you wanted an HTC phone that was rooted. You wanted the custom roms, the themes, the su privileges. This shining aura that was "root" was so appealing, that you took a plunge and bought the device before any work was really done on that. Now, some of you feel that you should receive, neigh, deserve root. I am so saddened by what this community, Eris users, not XDA, has turned into. The disbelievers, the demanders; what are you still doing here, complaining? Just leave if you have something mean to say.
To everyone: I'm a firm believer in the idea that if you don't have something important, information wise/helpful, to say on the forum, then don't post at all. I try to keep my fingers off the keyboard, and I have for a long time, but I cannot hold my silence. I used to post every day. I used to be excited to get onto XDA and see if something new had happened while I was away. When we got our own section of the forum, I was overjoyed! (Not really, but we needed a section) We had a pristine new subforum to play around in, and we trashed it. Our original root thread had to be closed because of how off topic and ridiculous it was. Our new thread has gone to crap and turned more into a flame war, than a place where we are looking for exploits and posting findings. Sadly, I wouldn't blame XDA for shutting that one down too. We, as a whole, have alienated developers and are now in danger of not getting root for a number of reasons.
No one deserves root, just like no one deserves $20 from a random stranger. Sure, it'd be nice to get it, but no one deserves it. We should all be thankful for the man hours that people have put in, for no money, to try and give us $20 a piece... I mean root this thing. Seriously, it's a community, not a business. Also, those who feel like it's not worth it to wait around, just leave. Don't make an exit if you're sitting around and not helping but you feel the need to announce that you are fed up, or tired of it. Root will come eventually. There has yet to be an android phone that hasn't been hacked, and we will not be the first one.
Lastly, I'm tired of the "HTC NEEDS to release the source code because it's our right to have it" argument. Sure, the source would help, but the iPhone has been hacked again and again and again with no source code. It comes down to good developers, and a thankful community. So, please stop riding that bandwagon. The source code will get here eventually, but you have to be patient.
To those of you who have been helpful: Thank you. To anyone who tried an exploit and posted findings, thank you. To anyone who compiled an exploit, who dumped their phone, who offered help, incite, or even a "keep it up", thank you. That's what a good hacking community does.
To Jmanly, Binny, Zifnab, rigamrts and others: Thank you for everything you've done to help us out. You are all a tribute to being a good forum member. We would not even be a fraction of where we are without Jmanly's guidance and it was sad to see him leave.
Where to go from here: I think we need to restart. Create a new thread where no negative talk will occur, people will only post things that help move us forward and people post their thanks to those who are doing all of us a favor. None of us deserve root. It's not owed to us because we got the phone. We should all be thankful for what some people with the know-how are doing for us. That should be all I have to say. I hope we can change a little bit for the better and maybe we can get back to trying to root.
-Video
Well said!
This is well put.
I can never quite understand the flaming or negative stuff.
I learned when I started out in WinMo Xperia Threads that people hassling or acting "Entitled" while you are working hard on a Mod or Rom or anything can be quite disheartening.
If it can be agreed upon, I would like to open a new thread, for root status and updates. (hopefully for the last time)
Or I can just add it to the bounty thread that is already open (I know and understand that most of us do this for the love of hacking and modding and out of a sense of community, but it is also a nice gesture and could really help someone that devotes time and effort to this)???
I would monitor it constantly and report any flaming and abuse to one of our great moderators immediatley.
What do you think?
here's how i felt when i first got my eris.
i was like great now i can see what's up and possibly help get root for the new addopters cause i did not get my g1 durring the first run. i missed out on the fun times of all the posts of people trying to hack the phone.
so when i first landed in the eris waters it was great the late night whiteboard sessions were fun throwing any idea no matter how idiotic it sounded and going to town. then we had our first 2 casualties jman and me cause some one took it apon himself to attack a guy who didn't even have our phone and was willing to help.
then we had today where that same person took it on himself to flame another dev the same way. now the 7 day ban might calm him down or send the message not to come back. but i thought it sould have been a perma-ban cause of past actions plus the disrespecting of a mod which is a no no. that mod i respect cause he acted profesionally and gave the community hope that this type of behavior will not be tollorated.
hopefully if things keep going in a positive direction i might jump back into fold but feel very heartbroken cause of the few bad apples.
Awesome post
as acid said, very well put.
i too never understood why not just in the "eris" section but yet in any section people have demanded such items to be released.
I agree with rigamrts, I have watched this board with aw in some of the things people have said to one another. If I had root to this phone I would P.M. the members I wanted to have it just to keep out the ones that act childish. But then wouldn't I be just as childish? So I would just stop, Do my own thing, and wait as a few of the people here have done. People with no interest in this device have nothing to lose by leaving besides maybe hearing their friend saying "come on man, come back. We won't let that happen again." Its a shame this happened in our community but as with the physical community I live in there are jerks. People that you wish would leave on their own accord but stick around with T.P. stuck to their shoes looking like idiots. Anyways, thanks for the help, keep working, and feel free to leave if things get retarded again. I would do the same.
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
Videofolife13 said:
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
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i could create a bolg on one of my unused email account
I think that moving the thread to the new one should work..
We have a couple of moderators all over this now..
And I can update everyday
I need you guys to update me on what to put im the 1st post so that we can get back on track
I think the blog is a great idea but the thing is we also need to keep the discussion here at XDA, the place that originally got us together. If we don't keep the support here we won't have a well known place to meet new Eris users that could potentially help. We can't do that because of one bad apple, this Is our meeting place and we need to show XDA the respect by continuing to trust their mods to do their jobs. Ya that guy should have been permanently banned but he wasn't so let's not punish XDA for that decision. My two pennies.
I agree that we need to hang out at XDA, but I also feel that we could move to somewhere where we can bounce around ideas without people hijacking threads or starting flame wars. I'm not trying to keep people in the dark, I just want to try a different place. Oh, and I'd like some people who know what they're doing to sign on. I'm just a visionary, I can't code. Haha
Ok guys here is the deal after what happend today I am a little upset I spend hours each day searching the web for exploits, why... to help. Here is what I may do, I might buy some webspace and set up a area for us to work together on. I am going to see if Jman will will join us, this is just a idea for right now. I will let you guys know when I clear my head.
Aren't there free blogs? Let's not throw money at this quite yet.
Oh, and I'm sorry you got upset with some people and also that I haven't been here in, well, a month or more. I thought the community was going stagnate. I'm here to stay and, like you, I'll be scrounging for exploits and doing my best to help those with the know-how by doing the leg work if they do the real work.
Free yes but I would like some were were we can upload files to and what not. Just a idea for right now.
Clear ur head man...take care
When ya come back.head over to the new no flaming thread
Videofolife13 said:
Aren't there free blogs? Let's not throw money at this quite yet.
Oh, and I'm sorry you got upset with some people and also that I haven't been here in, well, a month or more. I thought the community was going stagnate. I'm here to stay and, like you, I'll be scrounging for exploits and doing my best to help those with the know-how by doing the leg work if they do the real work.
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rigamrts.blogspot.com
just set up one for us.
Videofolife13 said:
I think it would be cool if everyone who was interested in CONTRIBUTING to the root, whether that be via coding, finding exploits, packing these things/making user friendly tutorials, could form, basically, a Dev team. They/we could have a blog, a place where they/we can get together and chat amongst ourselves about ideas and whatever. Hopefully, then, we could have a more concrete group of people WORKING TOGETHER to achieve this one goal.
If any of the people working on root are down for it, let's make it happen. Cool? Cool. Cool? Cool.
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Well I have the pro programs for Mac and Windows to make killer video tuts, so once we have this thing rooted, I can get that out of the way.
Oh and I can host web space for you too on my server, I just don't have any domains to run the site on. You could use your ways to get a domain. (Try shorturl.com that's what I use for most of my websites.)
Questions to [email protected].
CPCookieMan said:
Well I have the pro programs for Mac and Windows to make killer video tuts, so once we have this thing rooted, I can get that out of the way.
Oh and I can host web space for you too on my server, I just don't have any domains to run the site on. You could use your ways to get a domain. (Try shorturl.com that's what I use for most of my websites.)
Questions to [email protected].
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Good Stuff Cookie...
Come over to the new thread an help us out
Its in my sig...
No one deserves root, just like no one deserves $20 from a random stranger. Sure, it'd be nice to get it, but no one deserves it. We should all be thankful for the man hours that people have put in, for no money, to try and give us $20 a piece... I mean root this thing. Seriously, it's a community, not a business.
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Video I can agree where you are comming from, it does suck the fun out of the puzzle of rooting the device with all the flaming and demanding. But on the other side where I am, I am not a programmer or a linux genius. So we almost feel like leechers taking your work with out compensation for it. So the Pool for the dev that roots the Eris is our attempt to do our part in the give take relationship we have in this community.
Sure I could spend hours and hours and hope to get where you guys are or I can offer my monitary thanks for all your work.
I am not trying to point this thread in the wrong direction and I don't want to see a bunch of "I agree" replies. Just want to convey our side, the noobs and amatures that can't do the things that you do.
I am waiting patiently and if there is anything we the non-dev's can do let us know.
binny1007 said:
Free yes but I would like some were were we can upload files to and what not. Just a idea for right now.
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I have my own web server that we can use. Let me know if you want to set something up.
would a google wave account work i have invites?
First I'm not a mediator mod or any of that, but people we are acting like children.
1. Why are u here?
The devs on this forum are taking personal time! We as community members are not ENTITLED to ROMS. They do this for the love of the platform, so respect that.
2. This is not the Sprint forum.
Again, this forum does not imply or state that EVERYTHING is going to work with whatever ROM u choose. So really, why ***** or hate? Really?
3. What can u add?
Nobody expects anyone to be the cdma hero "hero". Everyone should know they lane and stay in it. Report bugs or dev, its that simple
I don't have the highest post count and I may be out of line but I have been studying/learning here since it was questionable if there would be a sprint hero forum. Let's not **** it up by driving away the same folks that got us here. I know that from past comments this will probably get locked, but if we don't as a whole respect more what's going on we have a chance of loosing it.
Respect to all the devs on here and the work they do, for US!
+1,000,000 Agreed,it's sad when people can't even thank someone without it turning into as bunch of un-needed bull$#17.Just be positive people,some good things are happening,don't let these people ruin things.
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
Support that!
dude props for this! good going. And I agree with you 1000%
its no crime to show thanks and respect to some one for their hard work. if deving was easy we would all be doing it.
obelisk79 said:
I don't post much here anymore, because of some personal reasons with regards to this forum. I still lurk a lot, however, and I just don't see where all the straight-up hate and animosity these posts such as yours are mentioning. I tend to avoid the 80-page threads because they are mostly filled with junk, is it in there?
Perhaps I should check them out.
The hate and animosity and watering down of this subforum with too many useless posts is why I haven't released anything since December. I'm working on a new rom for myself, and I'm thinking less and less like I might want to actually release it here. Last thing I feel like dealing with are a bunch of whiny people who aren't happy with me or my work unless it makes their phone do what THEY want. Where's the reward for devs? Don't anyone even bother mentioning donations.
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This is exactly why we should respect the devs... pretty soon all of them will be gone.
You beat me to it ... but I don't really care.
I think we just got too amped up with all the 2.1 excitement and started trying to outdo oneanother instead of working together. Once the official 2.1 comes out, I think we will see a lot more collaboration to make it as good as possible. In the mean time, always five credit where it is due, and don't worry about who did what first, because it only benefits everybody. That's why our great devs are here: to help create a better device, not to profit or hoard secrets. This is the first real open source project I have been a part of, and I get excited just thinking about what the future has in store for us. Let's make it a great one!
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
The way I look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you COULD just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that *** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because I have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ***. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (Hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you HAVE to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a *** chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
Don't make me say the f word and post an off color picture so this thread gets shut down
just playing mods. don't hurt me.
foxracr17 said:
the way i look at it is like a car.
You buy the car, and you could just leave it at that. Some people like to mod their car and optimize it for maximum performance. Many people do not know how to do this, so they need to take it some someone who does know how, and the mechanic for damn sure isnt going to do that **** for free. I think of our devs a mechanics, optimizing my phone for me because i have no idea how to develop to my phone. The difference here is that they are doing this **** for free. So what if they ask for a donation, bums on the street ask for "donations" for doing ****. We were going to get 2.1 for free one way or another at some point since we already had the car (hero for you thick headed people), whether it be a whole 2 days after flipz released it to contributors, or when sprint/htc officially releases it at the rumored end of this month.
And be happy this isnt a car, because if it was not only would you have to pay for the official update, but you would have to pay for the installation and optimization.
Taking a ****ing chill pill all those people who are too stingy to even donate 1 buck.
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this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .
Tipharet said:
Can we just please stop with these types of threads.
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No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
Thank you. And I mean that. Because of XDA and it's amazing devs, I have gotten more out of this phone than I ever imagined. I have never had a phone that could do so much and people here were always willing to help me with a problem. And that is wonderful. I am glad that I joined this forum. In fact, I look forward to checking it every day. lol I don't know a lot about Linux, Java, or coding, but I do however know a lot about photography. I am a professional. So, if anyone needs help that way, I am completely for helping...I mean, all of you have helped me...I'd like to return the favor.
-Ken
flexgrip said:
No kidding... I am pretty sick of hearing people explain to me why I should be grateful to the rom developers. Like saying "The devs on this forum are taking personal time!" is some enlightening way to look at it. Everyone knows that already. And it gets really old seeing people make threads like this in an effort to get brownie points around here. There are so many threads EXACTLY like this. You are pushing posts that actually have a use out of view for a lot of people.
Oh wait, I have a difference of opinion. Lets start another thread and label it disrespect to the development gods...
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Actually that wasn't my point at all. My point is threads like this do nothing but divert attention to them, it perpetuates the negativity. New users come in these threads and see this and "ask what I missed" then it gets started over and over again.
As soon as these threads die (yes I realize I bump when I reply) the drama will also follow. Donate, dont donate, dev, dont dev ( not really) but just treat each other like some one you would walk by on the street or have a conversation with while standing in a line.
Asking for your cake and eating it 2.
I dont post alot here as well due to personal issues here on the form (so many smarty pants people on here)
But if i see a rom that i like (or app) i give the dev his props and thank him for putting in hard work when he or she could of been doing something else not trying please us and make our phones better then the stock ones.
Not saying the next person have to do the same. But if i wasted 5hrs of my time. and your running around showing off with my work i would like some props.
This dont even have nothng to do with roms or dev so im sure its going to get closed down soon. You people are just wasting your time making these threads people going to do what they going to do.
It's true that these type of threads may seem senseless and get hijacked to negativity... but in the past, my experience is that when moderators and dev's get fed up enough the forum/site would become closed and open to invitation only type membership, i.e., PRIVATE ACCESS!
That scenario is both good and bad... "Good" if you're in the loop, but potentially "Bad" because you just might end up on the outside looking in with your nose pressed against the window! So PROPS it is...
I have come to XDA for a long time, joined only so I could post, and only recently began to do so. But, that said, it has been indispensable for the provision of knowledge and fixes for handsets that the manufacturers and or carriers are unable to do themselves... so again - PROPS it is... no reason to drag it down.
+++++1,000 thanks to the awesome work being done!
There are those who truly can never be pleased, yet, I think that ration is extremely small. So again, for something I would gladly pay for, but am not required to do, I offer the easiest thing, a gesture of THANKS!
RE: ▽▲ AXURA Vibrant Edition ▼△ Development Stopped.
First I'd like to say that was a punk move. Secondly, there's plenty of other great ROMs out there. I'm not sad, nor upset. I'm not going to kiss Master's ass. (I'm a software developer, I could take my own time to do this same ****) I'm also not going to flame or trash him (That'd be a waste of bandwidth and time).
The politics on these forums is ridiculous. You get something for free and then everyone *****es when things don't go their way. Devs take their personal time to provide you with something 'cool' or 'different' and you have a few select people ruining it for others. I don't 100% agree with 'Donating' to get 'early releases', but whatever. It is what it is. I'll roll with 2.0.6 AKA Axura Final until I get bored or something different catches my eye.
I'll admit, I really liked the theming done to it. I'm so sick of black and stupid ugly colors (I have a bit of a desiger background) that a lot of people call 'cool' or thinks 'looks great!'. And after searching for a ROM that didn't look like total ****, I actually considered getting involved in the theming community. We'll see.
Haters will hate.
I'm just taken away by this, I go out to eat with ole girl, come back and everything is stopped. I'm keeping 2.1 one for a while now, its destined to be a relic. But it is a damn good ROM, and skoal had to **** it up for everyone. I am sure he has recieved TONS of PMs from pissed off followers of Master, and rightfully so. However, I will not partake in anything like that.
I'm hoping this is just a phase that will blow over. Master came out of no where, it a place dominated by the "heavy hitters" and made a name for himself.
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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Its not all WHAT was done, but what was SAID, and how it went down. Blatant disrespect.
xtremekilla09 said:
I don't understand why a single leak is being blown so big.
How do you think we got the froyo release? ---(Leaked)
You dont see samsung *****ing and pouting about stopping development (which is minimal anyway).
I am running the captivate port for the 2.0 rom and hands down it is the fastest and most stable rom in our rom dev.
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+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
+1
couped said:
Good, mature post.
When somethings turns from being appreciated into being expected...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Exactly my thoughts.
razormy said:
+1
When we try to stop the leaking of leaked roms then I think it's getting out of control.
I can fully appreciate Master +all the other devs for the work but the fact is, one person gets the rom early and Master calls foul... big deal. Get over it. I wonder how many leaked roms from other devs have fallen into Master's lap.
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This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
It is a shame. While I wasn't going to donate to get a pre-release copy, I was going to donate after the final version was released assuming it worked fine as a thank you for his hard work (I had a few issues with 2.05 and was waiting before flashing again).
It is his right though, even if it is confusing when considering the circumstances of how these types of ROMs got started in the first place.
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
icebrkr said:
This is the first I've been involved with any ROM outside of the G1 realm (CyanogenMod) and I don't know of any other project where you can donate to get special treatment. Honestly, that's where the problem started. Dealing with money and VIP status. Cyanogen doesn't release anything until he's ready. Mainly so he can avoid the barrage of "X doesn't work, plz/fix/k/thx!". I also don't think if a few people get ZOMG v6.0.1.2-FINAL, that he'd be too upset.
There is a sense of quality control. You don't want a lot of people to get an early release to prevent the spamming of complaints. It's distracting and takes away from your project plan. If this was a real dev shop there'd be a bug tracking list and a handful of devs hacking away at their assigned tickets.
Overall, (both parties included, or and I guess the leaker too) it's a punk move. What are we? 12? (Sometimes I think we are! after all the bickering I read)
Meh... :|
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Agreed. Thanks for this thread. I hated reading the last one because of all the nonsense. A new rom will come and the fools will be foolish.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Let's not trash talk or name names... ok?
problem with forums like this
The problem with forums like this is they break out something like this:
10% 12-18
40% 19-26
40% 27-45
10% 46-60+ (where I fall into)
So, since age and maturity is the problem (or lack of maturity) there is no way to regulate that, not in an open forum....we are just left to self regulation........and as such, it will always be imperfect.
What is important is to be respectful and mature in the treatment (doing what they ask) of each other. The leaked rom from one friend to another is not really the core issue...........it is the public proclamation "Hey I got over on you" that demonstrates both the lack of respect and lack of maturity. This adolescent behavior (which the guilty one thinks is cute) damages our experience in this forum or in other forums. A Shame really.......
This forum gets ridiculous full of ungrateful people it really ruins development of great phones, people start to think they deserve something that was given out of good faith to help them hence original 2.2 leak
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Lets see if I can say this without sounding rude... Fok master, do the **** your self, a lot of his **** is off leaked stuff and others work...
he should be happy someone wanted his **** that bad...
By the way donating for a early release isn't a donation, thats a payment..... Never using his rom again, imma go stock and make the rom myself, you all could to its simple....
EDIT: Hell I remember when Master was trying to over run BIONIX lol Dude was all in their business... Trying to side help their ****. Man common Master, This is a punk move, for this You will never get a second look from me... Peace man, Just needed them donations/ Payments huh
Not allowing people to distribute his ROM is a violation of the GPL. He may ask, but he has no basis to. He built a ROM based on pre-released code and Open Source code and has no valid position to stop the same. Sure, he can get pissy if people do, that is certainly his right, but the moment he makes it available to anyone that person clearly has the right to distribute it unless it has actual proprietary software on it.
The person asking was within their rights
The person who gave it out was within their rights
Master getting pissed and stopping further development for people exercising their rights is completely within his rights.
Life goes on, shame, I was waiting for 2.1, time to move on.
kingrat said:
This forum is so crappy now..
everyone wants rewarded and begs for money
Master I thought was the worse...
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Click to collapse
I've seen you in Master's thread, you've contributed nothing but disrespect and you're part of the reason he closed his thread.
FYI, Master isn't discontinuing development. He is choosing not to share with XDA. Anyone that is interested in his work can still find it on his forum.
Seems a lot of Devs are keeping their work on their own sites. From what I've seen on this site in the last few weeks, I don't blame them.
I think it's messed up for those that paid for his roms now to get no support.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
jnutz said:
First of all thanks for making this thread OP. I want to get a few things out here as well.
Very immature on the part of everyone involved. Seriously grow up and get on with it.
This donation stuff is nothing more than payment and that is right. But the payment isn't so much for the software as it is the help in putting it together and getting it all to play nice. Sure you could piece it all together yourself if you had enough free time it isn't THAT hard. Or like me if your time is more valuable you can sling homeboy <INSERT NAME HERE> $10 and have him put it together for you. I value my time greatly and I lead a very busy life so I am very happy paying someone $10 if it even saves 30 minutes of my day. I am highly skilled and do computer security work for a living so it has nothing to do with knowledge or ability.
So lets make that clear. You are donating for their time not the actual software itself. Some of these guys spend a ton of time on their ROMs and if I can get that for a piddly $10-$25 donation then I say that is a deal. And on top of that he even offers personalized support when this ROM doesn't work.
I don't think the issue here is requiring donations because if they didn't nobody would donate so that is only fair. And it is more than reasonable for them to try to get some reward for time and effort invested. Especially if they have a website to support!
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I couldn't agree more.
The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.
I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.
Thanks, that is all.
I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.
And I agree.
That is all.
Translation:
All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.
Sad that people act like this.
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
Thanks for the translation...
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.
Then there are those who just attack me because they can.
The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.
All this cool and dandy...
However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.
I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.
But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.
Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.
If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.
I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.
Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.
Respect!
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
FDro said:
I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.
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I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
nitsuj17 said:
i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung
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agreed
10char
adrynalyne said:
While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.
I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.
Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...
Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.
How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.
Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.
But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...
I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...
Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.
I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.
Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.
My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.
And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.
But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?
That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.
And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?
And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.
My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.
Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.
Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.
phooky said:
No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.
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this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.
2 cents
I am not a developer.
My phone was decent out of the box.
Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.
The best part is that they aren't done yet
The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.
To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)
Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.
Sent from my fascinate through xda app.
Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.
I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.
It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
adrynalyne said:
Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.
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I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!
In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dip****... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated
No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.
Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.
Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.
Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.
BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).