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I have a P6800.
I think it's a great tablet with many technical innovations.
I accept it wouldn't be to everyones taste.
I've worked in electronics in both retail, wholesale and manufacturing for a fair proportion of my working life.
Why haven't Samsung yet worked out that announcing a new product, then making the market wait months and months for shipment, while continuing to announce new products (which also won't ship for months) is undermining their impact in the market.
The new product announcements deter individuals and more importantly retailers (bricks and mortar not virtual) from carrying the product as they'll be concerned they'll either get left with stock or get hit with price drops.
Grey importing from the Far East destroys retailers willingness to carry a product with a RRP of £350 when it's available from Far East drop shippers for around 2/3 of that price.
This scattergun approach to product launches and lack of discipline in global pricing is seriously undermining Samsungs long term success in my opinion, someone somewhere high up in the organisation should really step back and make some hard decisions on strategy.
With so many products to support it takes a disproportionate amount of time to release updates (as we've seen with the P6800 6 months after ICS release) and the customer experience is therefore diminished.
Fanboiism only goes so far, a coherent, global, long term, production and marketing plan is what works in the market.
They also need to work on their pricing - I'd have bought one of these 7.7's long ago if they'd been realistically priced. As they are (in the UK) they're simply overpriced.
In general the Galaxy Tab range is just way too expensive - I know 2 people who bought iPad 3's instead as they were the same price as the 16GB Galaxy Tab 10.1!
You have to differentiate between lower price and diifferent price.
Personally I think the 7.7 is worth every penny and if Samsung did better marketing they could show the differences between the 7.7 and the IPad 3.
Instead they now have 5 different product ranges or 6 if you include the Galaxy Note....
7 Plus
7.7
8.9
10.1
7 v2
These, in theory, come in various memory sizes although I've never seen any memory size of more then 16gb on the 8.9, 7.7 or 7 plus ranges.
The average time between announcement and shipping seems to be 5 months and even today in the UK you cannot buy a UK sourced 7.7 3G as far as I know and it's 8 months since it was announced.
There are rumours of a 11.6? unit coming.
While I understand the desire to have a comprehensive range the reality is that Samsung are spreading themselves too thin and instead of launching 1 product in say 3 sizes they see each version as a totally new product. This means they themselves are confused about the offerings, this is reflected in the lack of marketing 'punch' in their message.
My suggestions for what could help.
1. Stop any new tablet announcements for 12 months.
2. Simplify the product range for an announcement in 12 months.
The range should be....
11.6 with no bezel (so same physical form factor as the current 10.1)
8.9 with no bezel
7 or 7.7
All should have Super Amoled Plus (or anything newer and better that's arrived by then)
The range should be technically identical except for the screen size (the specifics of the offerings would need to be worked out nearer to the launch)
Ship globally the full range within 4 weeks of the announcement, concentrate your marketing spend to this one 'product' in three size 'flavours'.
Sit back and reap the rewards.
In what regards consumer electronics, Samsung is being crushed by its own growth, "ungovernance" and lack of focus.
I've noticed this has been going on since, at least, 2007 year of my first interaction with them on account of the BDP-5000 combo player.
Like many Asian corporate giants, seen from the outside, Samsung seems like either (1) they don't have anyone at the helm or (2) they have too many people allowed at that very same helm, just giving the odd directional input, as they cluelessly seem fit.
When I see a photo of Gee-Sung Choi I don't think "Hey!...So that's the man behind all those incredible devices...".
Instead I think "...So, this is the guy behind that ugly mess..."
GK
(PS: Mine was 479 EUR at Dixons, in the Netherlands...excellent, excellent price)
You can buy a UK sourced 3G 7.7 from Clove Technology. Product code is GT-P6800LSAXEU. Price is an eye watering GBP478.80. When it gets to GBP350 I might get one. Current price is just too expensive for something which will be superseded in 6 months.
Yep!!
I am no marketing expert but even I can say that Samsung are continually missing out on opportunities for more sales, and more to the point getting themselves known. This isn't just the case with the P6800.
I know marketing/advertising is expensive but the rewards they would reap would be huge. Especially with the new budget Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 tablet, there are many people out there hungry for a capable tablet, but don't they want to shell out £500 for a tablet. An advertising campaign would make all the difference.
Look at the Galaxy Note! It took them 3 months to start TV adverts for it here. They really haven't a clue about marketing. Instead they are churning out products left, right and centre. Trying to cover all bases, it's an insane tactic.
The 7.7 is definitely over priced here, over £400 for the Wifi only model is just nuts. I don't own a 7.7 just yet, but I am very tempted. However, I don't have too much faith that ICS is actually coming to the 7.7.. also it's not been a very popular device for developers to play with, we can blame the price tag for that. It kinda feels like that even Samsung aren't really that interested in the 7.7. It's availability in general says something to me... then again Samsung are just a strange company.
Samsung have this frantic idea to push as many new products out the door, their business model is so wrong. They are shooting themselves in the foot.
jeremyr62 said:
You can buy a UK sourced 3G 7.7 from Clove Technology. Product code is GT-P6800LSAXEU. Price is an eye watering GBP478.80. When it gets to GBP350 I might get one. Current price is just too expensive for something which will be superseded in 6 months.
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Yea, Expansys have them too (SAMP680016GBS) at GBP479.99. I agree that GBP350's more realistic, but I'm not holding my breath.
I've just checked and you can pick them up on Amazon.com for USD597 (GBP371). Yet again we pay through the nose in Europe - Amazon.de's selling them for EUR742 (GBP591) and Amazon.fr for EUR683 (GBP544)!
Samsung probably doesn't go by the same metrics and ideas as you. People here often refer to the 7.7 as Samsung's "flagship tablet". It's really not. It's certainly their nicest one, and one that probably is the most difficult to manufacture.
The 10.1 is their "flagship" since that's what's selling and that's the direct competitor to the iPad (or least it used to be). The 7.7 is more of a niche edge thing.
burhanistan said:
Samsung probably doesn't go by the same metrics and ideas as you. People here often refer to the 7.7 as Samsung's "flagship tablet". It's really not. It's certainly their nicest one, and one that probably is the most difficult to manufacture.
The 10.1 is their "flagship" since that's what's selling and that's the direct competitor to the iPad (or least it used to be). The 7.7 is more of a niche edge thing.
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The 10.1 isn't selling in the UK or quite a few other parts of Europe.
My point isn't about this tablet or that tablet, it's about Samsungs lack of overall strategy.
Simplistically if you had 1 product in 3 size 'flavours' it allows you to price differentiate accordingly. Especially as the Internet means that your pricing strategy has to be global.
The current RRP pricing in the UK could work (and I know some people here will say it never would) if they concentrated their marketing spend and targetted it effectively, the reality is they're just spread way too thin with too many products and no clear strategy.
55brianb said:
I've just checked and you can pick them up on Amazon.com for USD597 (GBP371). Yet again we pay through the nose in Europe - Amazon.de's selling them for EUR742 (GBP591) and Amazon.fr for EUR683 (GBP544)!
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Here (austria) you can get the 7.7 for 499EUR. Shipping in EU is around 10EUR. Just wanted to state that because it seems to me that everybody thinks you can't get this device at a proper price. (german price is very overwhelmed because the tab 7.7 isn't officially available in germany!)
By the way I don't think the price is a huge problem as you get the device for "free" when signing a contract for mobile internet, and without that the tab is pretty much useless anyways.
Back to topic: I totally agree samsung is carrying a very strange marketing strategy. Also I think the idea of "unifying" the tabs, so that screen size is only technical difference and launch all of them with one big marketing campaign would be alot better and more efficient than just rolling out device after device after device. I can imagine some people don't want to buy a tab because you can be sure 2 or 3 months later the next, better model is announced. I think better support (ie releasing updates in time and for a longer period of time) would be much better than having slightly better hardware every few weeks.
OP actually listed marketing strategies of Apple. Unfortunately Samsung could not, and probably never will follow the very same strategies.
Samsung actually follows the best marketing strategy, only that strategy focuses on profit, rather than customers, like Apple does. That's why you think Samsung made a mess in marketing, from customer's perspective.
Also, price segmentation, wide variety of product line and hidden product roadmap is exactly most vendors do for decades, for profit maximization. Not that I believe these are the best strategies, Apple for one has proven them wrong.
In short Apple's marketing strategies must accompany with market-dominating products, which is a very risky marketing model for most corporations. (I think I should stop at this point, I found discussing marketing in tech forum boring indeed )
九千. said:
OP actually listed marketing strategies of Apple. Unfortunately Samsung could not, and probably never will follow the very same strategies.
Samsung actually follows the best marketing strategy, only that strategy focuses on profit, rather than customers, like Apple does. That's why you think Samsung made a mess in marketing, from customer's perspective.
Also, price segmentation, wide variety of product line and hidden product roadmap is exactly most vendors do for decades, for profit maximization. Not that I believe these are the best strategies, Apple for one has proven them wrong.
In short Apple's marketing strategies must accompany with market-dominating products, which is a very risky marketing model for most corporations. (I think I should stop at this point, I found discussing marketing in tech forum boring indeed )
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Errr...
I didn't quote use the marketing strategies of Apple. Apple have a very different value proposition which is based upon diverse revenue streams.
1. While they make good money on their hardware their tight control of their App and ITunes stores generate them substantial and very profitable secondary revenue streams.
2. They are single product focused (the continued sale of the IPad2 is to run down production lines in my opinion). They only have single products in a segment, albeit with different memory sizes.
3. While they present themselves as a technical leader they are in my opinion a very good marketing operation who package up others technical breakthroughs.
I met Steve Jobs back in about 1979, he was pretty good at pinching other peoples ideas even then.
I disagree with your assessment that Samsung focus on profit, frankly the marketing of their tablets in Europe has been non existent. Unless you're selling a product you're not making profits and allowing such large pricing differentials in markets just encourages grey imports and undermines your message to your stockists.
I know of at least two major UK retailers who carry Samsung tablets but don't carry the full range and don't have presentation units on display, when I asked them why they said "...because we don't know where their focus is...." (my paraphrase).
I'm glad that you are interesting in this boring topic.
pinsb said:
Errr...
I didn't quote use the marketing strategies of Apple. Apple have a very different value proposition which is based upon diverse revenue streams.
1. While they make good money on their hardware their tight control of their App and ITunes stores generate them substantial and very profitable secondary revenue streams.
2. They are single product focused (the continued sale of the IPad2 is to run down production lines in my opinion). They only have single products in a segment, albeit with different memory sizes.
3. While they present themselves as a technical leader they are in my opinion a very good marketing operation who package up others technical breakthroughs.
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Actually I think we were not discussing above three point before. Anyway, I agree with you except point 3, I have problems with Apple in their motives on crushing technological advancement, least honoring them with the title of technical leader.
pinsb said:
I met Steve Jobs back in about 1979, he was pretty good at pinching other peoples ideas even then.
I disagree with your assessment that Samsung focus on profit, frankly the marketing of their tablets in Europe has been non existent. Unless you're selling a product you're not making profits and allowing such large pricing differentials in markets just encourages grey imports and undermines your message to your stockists.
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It depends on regions. As liberal as they seem to be, many EU countries have strict imports restrictions that effectively repel foreign imports. I can't speak for Samsung, but in our case our electronics products have to go through complicated regulations on standards and safety measures, before being allowed to import, with applied period and quantity constraints. Also, EU has their own patent office, on the top of USPTO, which in effect erecting a huge import barrier to all import goods, especially electronics.
Given such a huge barrier, it makes sense for a large corporation cutting back budget in marketing. For example, delay in launching Galaxy Tabs in Germany as a result of on-going litigation causing them to lose the time-to-market, and you wouldn't be surprise when they retreat all the marketing campagin planned.
pinsb said:
I know of at least two major UK retailers who carry Samsung tablets but don't carry the full range and don't have presentation units on display, when I asked them why they said "...because we don't know where their focus is...." (my paraphrase).
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UK has a different story. I cannot detail that without offending British Government or people supporting them. So please let me pass on that. As to the reason why Samsung widely expands the product lines in Galaxy Tab, I think I have explained before. This is not about market-focusing, it is about market-segmentation.
I wish my above points reaching you.
I think Samsung have got the right strategy by offering a choice of different tablet sizes in the same way that laptops are offered in different sizes. A lot of the big laptop players such as Toshiba are now entering the market and offering a choice of 3 or 4 tablet sizes. People have become brain washed by the Apple one size fits all approach.
Crazy prices, and here is me, getting the tab for 499 Swiss Francs
Having seen the Sammie press release about 9m pre sales of SG3 handsets I now understand.......
Sammie see their route to market (In Europe at least) as via Carriers, they aren't really that interested in marketing products except as an adjunct to assist the Carriers sell handsets. As tablets are much more often a stand alone sale it's had no attention.
While I still think the P6800 is a great product I've come to the realisation that Sammie will never give it the attention it should have got, as a result sales will never reach their potential and therefore ROM development will always be restricted.
Hopefully the CM9 situation will accelerate when ICS Colonel Sauces are release, the developers have already done a fantastic job of getting a 90% working build.
Ho Hum.....
To sell the tablet and replace with the new Google (Asus) Nexus (depending on spec) or see what happens.
I'm feeling pretty let down by Sammie right now and to be honest it'll influence my decision about buying Sammie products in the future.
pinsb said:
You have to differentiate between lower price and diifferent price.
Personally I think the 7.7 is worth every penny and if Samsung did better marketing they could show the differences between the 7.7 and the IPad 3.
Instead they now have 5 different product ranges or 6 if you include the Galaxy Note....
7 Plus
7.7
8.9
10.1
7 v2
These, in theory, come in various memory sizes although I've never seen any memory size of more then 16gb on the 8.9, 7.7 or 7 plus ranges.
The average time between announcement and shipping seems to be 5 months and even today in the UK you cannot buy a UK sourced 7.7 3G as far as I know and it's 8 months since it was announced.
There are rumours of a 11.6? unit coming.
While I understand the desire to have a comprehensive range the reality is that Samsung are spreading themselves too thin and instead of launching 1 product in say 3 sizes they see each version as a totally new product. This means they themselves are confused about the offerings, this is reflected in the lack of marketing 'punch' in their message.
My suggestions for what could help.
1. Stop any new tablet announcements for 12 months.
2. Simplify the product range for an announcement in 12 months.
The range should be....
11.6 with no bezel (so same physical form factor as the current 10.1)
8.9 with no bezel
7 or 7.7
All should have Super Amoled Plus (or anything newer and better that's arrived by then)
The range should be technically identical except for the screen size (the specifics of the offerings would need to be worked out nearer to the launch)
Ship globally the full range within 4 weeks of the announcement, concentrate your marketing spend to this one 'product' in three size 'flavours'.
Sit back and reap the rewards.
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Click to collapse
They should all have wacom digitizers. That's all I'll add. I dont care if its as much or more than an ipad. I HATE HATE HATE apple.
Samsung already offers a superior product. If they consildated their Note line-up into these specs, included gs3, gave the gTab 7.7 and gs3 wacom digitizers and launched them ALL with ICS at launch, let touchwiz be an opt-in with first FOTA, EVERYONE would be happy.
Sent from my GT-P6800
Yep!!
I am no marketing expert but even I can say that Samsung are continually missing out on opportunities for more sales, and more to the point getting themselves known. This isn't just the case with the P6800.
I know marketing/advertising is expensive but the rewards they would reap would be huge. Especially with the new budget Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 tablet, there are many people out there hungry for a capable tablet, but don't they want to shell out £500 for a tablet. An advertising campaign would make all the difference.
Look at the Galaxy Note! It took them 3 months to start TV adverts for it here. They really haven't a clue about marketing. Instead they are churning out products left, right and centre. Trying to cover all bases, it's an insane tactic.
The 7.7 is definitely over priced here, over £400 for the Wifi only model is just nuts. I don't own a 7.7 just yet, but I am very tempted. However, I don't have too much faith that ICS is actually coming to the 7.7.. also it's not been a very popular device for developers to play with, we can blame the price tag for that. It kinda feels like that even Samsung aren't really that interested in the 7.7. It's availability in general says something to me... then again Samsung are just a strange company.
Samsung have this frantic idea to push as many new products out the door, their business model is so wrong. They are shooting themselves in the foot.
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Be more than tempted. This is the best device on the market. From what I understand, samsung is having a hard time supplying the screens. The production process is outrageously precise and there are only two factories producing them in the whole world. Those two factories are supplying htc, motorola, and what's the other 7" amoled tablet?
Its US$699 in the states and only offered under Verizon. They took out telephony hardware. So the only way to get the gsm version is through import. I got mine used for US$500 and is in excellent condition.
The sad thing is, in my personal opinion, this technology is the greatest innovation in mark-making since the invention of painting. PM me for more on that one.
Sent from my GT-P6800
To me it looks a bit like Samsung is using a shotgun blast of models and sizes to look what the public wants.
If it becomes successful enough it gets an followup and else they try something different.
Mario387 said:
To me it looks a bit like Samsung is using a shotgun blast of models and sizes to look what the public wants.
If it becomes successful enough it gets an followup and else they try something different.
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What the public want are good quality, speedy, reliable tablets, priced fairly. The first company to deliver on this will make a killing. Simple.
Samsung's trying to compete with Apple, which I now think they are close to in terms of hardware. Where they appear to be going wrong is in their pricing strategy - they are simply pricing themselves out of the market, and as long as their prices remain high they'll lose out on potentially massive sales.
Wonder what the reasons on this are?
I know a few people who decided it wasn't worth the upgrade over the S3.
After breaking sales records in its first month the Samsung Galaxy S4 may not be as popular as first thought, as reports roll in suggesting the Korean firm is reducing its orders.
According to ETNews, Samsung has slashed its July orders for Galaxy S4 handsets by almost half, as it looks to ship in 6.5 million units next month compared to the 12.2 million in pushed May.
Sales have apparently begun to slow at faster rate than expected, which has led Samsung to reevaluate its monthly orders to meet the reduced demand.
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http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...y-s4-popularity-on-the-slide-already--1160366
Still, it's a lot better upgrade to go from an S3 to S4 than iP4S to iP5.
For me. Battery life is one massive reason. Easily get a full day of full use on the s4 where I was struggling on the s3 with the same usage.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda premium
It's their own fault for diluting their brand with 20 different versions of the same phone
That and HTC really stepped up this year
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
I wonder if all these other Galaxy branded products that have appeared from Samsung has had an effect?
I think the main reason is the S3, S3 LTE & Note II being so popular and also being alot cheaper now aswell both simfree & on contract.
Alot of people apart from us on here, will look at the S4 and think it looks no different from the S3, so no point in upgrading.
I also think brand dilution is also starting to having it effect aswell, moreso with the S4.
Next year Samsung need to go back to the drawing board with the S5, bring out something that looks totally different & fresh from the S3/S4, redesign touchwiz make it lighter & more upto date, instead of adding more bloat.
Those numbers imply that Sammy are on target for 50/80 m sales of the s4 as they projected
Ever heard of the term "market saturation" ?
There are tons of S3 everywhere around me and none of them is planning to update any time soon.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
I've had an S3 i9300 since it was launched and I bought an S4 i9500 yesterday.
The only important difference I see is in the camera software.
Wasn't worth the purchase. Should have waited for the Note 3.
You kind of have to put the SGS4's sales "decline" in context:
High-end smartphone sales are slowing. Primarily because the market has matured and penetration is now high. This is an issue that affects every high-end smartphone manufacturer equally. And in emerging markets high-end phones aren’t what sell. As an example, high-end smartphones over $400 USD only made up 2.5% of smartphone sales in India in 2012. Phones between $100-130 USD were 30% of sales.
Samsung may have outpaced Apple in smartphone sales last quarter, but it’s facing the same slowdown risks as its biggest competitor. Both companies are battling to dominate the world’s smartphone market. In places such as the United States, nearly everyone who’s interested in buying a smartphone already has one, decreasing demand overall. But the smartphone revolution has yet to hit the world’s most lucrative markets such as China and India in full force. That leaves smartphone companies in a bind. High-end devices provide the lion’s share of smartphone profits, and are still too expensive to appeal to customers outside of the major cities in the world’s most important markets.
Samsung, overall, is well-positioned to navigate this split. The company is already the market leader in China and picking up more customers across the globe, thanks to its strategy of offering a wide range of devices apart from its premium iPhone competitor, the Galaxy S 4. Apple, meanwhile, offers older versions of its phones at lower prices rather than specifically making cheaper phones.http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...one-market-smartphone-sales-smartphone-makers
The SGS3 sold 50MM units over twelve months. Analysts have lowered their estimates on SGS4's shipped; primarily because of the above. But in this example the analyst dropped his estimate from 80MM to 60MM this year. Since the SGS4 launched in April that allows for nine selling months. On an annualized basis 60MM is equal to 80MM SGS4's a year. That's a 33% increase over the SGS3's annualized selling rate.
JPMorgan now expects Suwon, South Korea-based Samsung’s shipments of the S4 to be 60 million this year, compared with a previous estimate of 80 million. Samsung sold 10 million units of the S4 within 27 days, the company said.http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...pmorgan-cuts-estimates-on-s4-seoul-mover.html
Samsung itself never disclosed actual SGS4 sales targets for 2013. All the numbers being talked about were unofficial analysts estimates. In terms of overall mobile sales revenue Samsung will probably still meet analysts’ expectations. This year Samsung's got a ton of products launching in the same time frame (SGS4, SGS4 Active, SGS4 Zoom, SGS4 Mini, Mega, N3, a bunch of mid-range phones, and four new tablets). The concern becomes "profit" rather than "sales" because Samsung makes less on non-Flagship devices. Here's what Samsung's CEO said about the SGS4's sales.
"I can say sales of the Galaxy S4 smartphone are fine. It’s been selling well. The report (by JPMorgan) was based on its own analysis. Probably, the bank may have corrected its previous bullish estimate about the S4 sales."http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_ceo_says_galaxy_s4_sales_are_fine-news-6210.php
Samsung, because of their dominance, has become like Apple. They are the company the investment community and media "love to hate." A headline like "Samsung loses $20B of market value" gets a lot more clicks than "HTC reports another disappointing quarter." So at every opportunity expect to see some tidbit regarding Samsung's performance to become "major news." They and Apple generate 95% of mobile device profits. There may be fewer profits because of changes in the market place but the 95% of profits they both share isn't going to change. And if Apple and Samsung are "challenged" where does that leave the dozen manufacturers sharing 5% of mobile device profit?
Maybe you could install s4camera on your S3 by an rom update.... ?
Sent from my ZP810 using Tapatalk 2
oicirbaf said:
Maybe you could install s4camera on your S3 by an rom update.... ?
Sent from my ZP810 using Tapatalk 2
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I use Omega ROM. Maybe Indie could implement that mod. I don't think it's available because I've been waiting for it since the S4 was launched. There are several S4 imitation ROMs for the S3.
Dunno if the above claim is true or not, but the reason is pretty simple.
Increased Competition.
The competition for an android based smartphone is never like before, During the days of s2 and s3 those phones were the only dominant performers with the rest of the manufacturers catching up. But now thats not the case any more, making an android based phone has become much simpler for phone companies. Get a cheaply available LCD, get a cheaply available soc like mediatek or some other, put it inside a mobile body and voila!!! there we have a new android device ready.
With the emergence of snapdragon all over in high end devices and samsung struggling to get their big little architecture right(5420 might fix all those issues), its pretty apparent that things are not looking good for sammy.
In India currently almost all mobile manufacturers have launched a quadcore phone with 720p LCD, So how will you differentiate those mobiles from the high end ones? For now the only differentiation between s3,s4 and the rest of cheaply available android phones is the amount of software goodies samsung provides as an addon and the high quality soc inside.Only time will tell on how long this will go.
The HTC One is certainly a much closer competitor to GS4 than the competition the GS3 faced last year.
If the s5 comes in one hardware version with all wcdma and lte bands enabled it will be the next best seller guaranteed!
I would be interested to see how many google gs4's will be purchased. I almost grabbed a gs4 before I heard about the google one and thats on my list to purchase two of them next week.
Sales might go up with google edition.
Sent from the state where marijuana is not illegal !
thedadio said:
If the s5 comes in one hardware version with all wcdma and lte bands enabled it will be the next best seller guaranteed!
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I'll tell you what, if the specs of the Sony Xperia Homani are real, Samsung, HTC, Apple, are all going to have to go back to drawing board. Spec wise it's going to embarrass everyone.
bala_gamer said:
The competition for an android based smartphone is never like before, During the days of s2 and s3 those phones were the only dominant performers with the rest of the manufacturers catching up. But now thats not the case any more, making an android based phone has become much simpler for phone companies. Get a cheaply available LCD, get a cheaply available soc like mediatek or some other, put it inside a mobile body and voila!!! there we have a new android device ready.
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All those reasons are why everyone that's not Samsung and Apple are screwed and why the two of them own mobile device profits. Samsung and Apple control the supply chain because of their massive component commitments. They also get components on hugely favorable terms because of their volume. In Samsung's case, they even make a good deal of their own components further driving up their profit.
I'm not picking on HTC but they are a good example. They don't build a single component used in their devices. All they do is assemble the pieces they buy from third parties. Because their volume has dropped, they aren't even a tier one vendor any longer. That means they pay more per component than their competitors, don't get first priority for in-demand parts, and can have their supply chain disrupted as seen by the botched launch of the One. How are they or anyone else every going to compete against Samsung and Apple if their vendor status is lower, their component prices are higher, and have to sell products at prices determined by the market?
Micromax is a great example. They compete on price and sell largely average devices with mid-range specs and features. No one in India aspires to a Micromax phone. They buy them because Samsung and Apple are more expensive. Samsung's pushing low and mid-range devices in countries like India and China and are making more profit than companies like Micromax because their overall component costs are lower.
Samsung and Apple spend billions on promotion and branding and are both aspirational brands and have become synonymous with "premium" much like BMW, M-B, and Audi are. Between Samsung's global distribution and support infrastructure, lower component costs, and a cache brand the only thing keeping them from owning the low-end market is its lack of profitability compared to other segments their dominant in. Why would they sell a $100 USD phone in India if they didn’t have to? If someone in India could buy similarly spec'd phones from Samsung and Micromax which do you think they'd choose. Much like Apple's moving out of the premium tier with a lower-cost iPhone, Samsung will eventually push down in to lower ends of the market to protect their market share and revenue growth. And there's not a damn thing any other manufacturer can do to compete against that once they do. If phone are a commodity now like you say, and cost<>feature is relatively equal, people will buy the brand they equate with “premium.” And that’s not Micromax, Oppo, ZTE, and Huawei. At the same prices as Samsung and Apple even well-known brands like LG, HTC, Sony, and Motorola are having a hard time competing and making absolutely no profit doing it.
vapotrini said:
I'll tell you what, if the specs of the Sony Xperia Homani are real, Samsung, HTC, Apple, are all going to have to go back to drawing board. Spec wise it's going to embarrass everyone.
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I doubt Honami will be THAT great, the S800 will make it a powerful phone, sure, but other than that? I think it will be more of a Xperia Z+ type thing, better CPU/GPU and Camera, much like Xperia S to Xperia T.
I'll be getting either the supposedly "blue" HTC One or the Moto X on Verizon by the end of this month. We all know the Moto X is slightly underspecced compared to the One but supposedly it's got a massive slew of new features and the PRICE tag equivalent to a dollar menu item at McDonalds compared to a Big Mac; assuming that you can get it from Google Play for Verizon. (Sorry for the run-on sentence)
Here's what will make or break my decision.
If the Moto X does these, I will not buy:
Lag: I will not tolerate anything less than buttery smooth like the HTC One
Camera: If the rear camera is a complete waste like the Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 4 camera.
Bad Battery life: I assume based on battery size and slower processor that this thing will have admirable battery life, but you never know
Quiet Speakers: This one is 50/50. If the external speaker(s) suck big time then I won't buy. But if it's at least as good as the iPhone5 then I will hold nothing against it.
Low Storage: I haven't read everything there is to know about it yet but this thing needs to have 32gb storage minimum, whether it's internal or achieved by an SD card, I don't care. It just needs to happen. I'm sitting at 4gb remaining as it is with my silver HTC One, lol.
Bad Screen: Here's the major kicker. I've read the rumors that the X will have 312ppi and our One's are rocking an incredible 468ppi. That's normally an indication of how great the screen will be in real life. If the screen looks obviously worse, then I'm going to just grab the Verizon HTC One and call it a day.
Feel free to add any other things that would make or break your decision between these phones. All the while keeping in mind that the X is a few hundred dollars cheaper.
You know as much as we do, why compare.
Keep in mind the One is also likely 2x the cost of the X, if the rumors hold true - so hopefully the One is better in most of those categories.
My opinion is this, it won't sound as good as the One due to the boomsound speakers, but I could live without them.
Same with PPI of over 450, there's basically zero difference over 300, so again, a wash for me.
Honestly, if the bootloader is unlocked and the battery is decent (better than the One), I'll probably switch to the X.
I hear the software optimizations are awesome on it as well.
I personally don't see a reason to consider the X if the One is within your budget. Sure the X may be better bang for the buck but I wouldn't settle for decent when I can afford great.
"Who wants to be a fireman?"
Why not add that to your ridiculous poll?
lol it is $200 on contract for AT&T (probably similar for Verizon). You can just get the One for the same price :laugh:
killman2659 said:
lol it is $200 on contract for AT&T (probably similar for Verizon). You can just get the One for the same price :laugh:
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Yeah that just sealed the deal for me. What a flop. Looks like a blue One will be it,
Syn Ack said:
Yeah that just sealed the deal for me. What a flop. Looks like a blue One will be it,
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And i think i read that the 32 gb will be AT&T exclusive
killman2659 said:
And i think i read that the 32 gb will be AT&T exclusive
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As will the customizations.
I really had high hopes for this thing.
Hyped product is hyped.
:meh:
Boo, motorola dropped the ball from the sounds of it.
Definitely no reason to get it over the One, IMO. (Unless you really want to talk to your phone when it sleeps :angel
Man. And here I thought it would be a play device that would replace the nexus 4. Guess not. Although the notification system and the google now thing is pretty cool. I want that on my One.
Edit: I guess it will be released as a dev/unlocked device, but doubt the price would be anywhere near $300 if it's contract price is $250.
bbedward said:
Boo, motorola dropped the ball from the sounds of it.
Definitely no reason to get it over the One, IMO. (Unless you really want to talk to your phone when it sleeps :angel
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Agreed
Honestly, an HTC One Mini sounds better than Moto X.
What's hilarious is Motorola Mobility (a company owned by Google) won't be shipping the X with Android 4.3. Fragmentation is so bad on the Android platform that even a cell phone manufacturer owned by Google itself can't even get the latest version of Android on its own phones. I'm sure the US cell phone carriers are responsible, since it's coming out on all 4 major carriers. I'm not complaining or anything (4.3 is a relatively minor upgrade), I just think it's funny.
Dual core vs quad core you decide.
IMO this is a huge mistake from Moto.
Sent from my HTC One
henrybravo said:
What's hilarious is Motorola Mobility (a company owned by Google) won't be shipping the X with Android 4.3. Fragmentation is so bad on the Android platform that even a cell phone manufacturer owned by Google itself can't even get the latest version of Android on its own phones. I'm sure the US cell phone carriers are responsible, since it's coming out on all 4 major carriers. I'm not complaining or anything (4.3 is a relatively minor upgrade), I just think it's funny.
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I agree that it is stupid that this phone doesn't ship with 4.3. You would think Motorola would've been the first company to receive an early final build of 4.3. IMO if anyone wants this phone just wait until they release the Google Play version of it (if it doesn't have 4.3 then that would be pathetic)
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
I have waited months for the HTC One to come to Verizon I will not to turn back now. But really Moto X is a mid range phone, I want the best.
Too be honest, I am a little conflicted
Motorola should be commended for allowing customization on their phones (even if its just aesthetics). In my opinion every company should do this.
The specification are considered mid-range, for specification buffs this is disconcerning (and most of us here are spec buffs) but my question how much does it matter? My brothers Nexus 4 runs just as smooth as my HTC One and it has a slower processor. Dual Core vs. Quad Core, how many apps actually use all the cores?
720p vs. 1080p this will depend on if you can tell the difference. This is what I tell people when they compare screens, if you can't tell the difference there is no point of spending that extra money. The 720p def will save battery and allow the phone to run faster (less resources diverted to run the 1080p screen)
Active Display and Touchless Control do add unique functionality. Touchless Control will be really useful when driving. Active Display is definitely a good way to handle notifications and may increase battery life.
Price being the same gives the HTC One a huge advantage though. If the unlocked version is around the same price as the Nexus 4 then it could be worth it. But its somewhat unlikely since its made in the US (our minimum wage is $7.50 an hour while the workers in China usually get $1.50 an hour. HUGE difference here)
Though I feel Motorola is heading in the right direction. If they add options to customize CPU, RAM, Screen...etc. (which they can definitely do with their new Texas factory) or even options for different material panels (I know they are prototyping wooden backs at the moment) this will go somewhere. Price is the biggest problem right now and to be honest I'm not sure how they will be able to solve it.
I love the X, at the price point though I'd rather buy the One.
I think a lot of people feel the same way, but I certainly hope it succeeds anyway.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
regP said:
I personally don't see a reason to consider the X if the One is within your budget. Sure the X may be better bang for the buck but I wouldn't settle for decent when I can afford great.
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+1
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
TechCrunch has confirmed reports that Lenovo is buying Motorola Mobility from Google. This is the division within Google that the company purchased in 2011 for $12.5 billion. Motorola Mobility will go to Lenovo for $2.91 billion.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/29/lenovo-to-buy-motorola-mobility-from-google/
I don't know this is good or bad?
May be lenovo can open atrix source
I dont know good or bad... What I know is... Google came... screwed Atrix community... and then went away.
Google will maintain ownership of the vast majority of the Motorola Mobility patent portfolio.
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Pretty sure at least some if not all of the patents included in the Atrix are a part of this.
Google brought Moto just want its patents in case others contestant own them, now sold some of patents, and using Lenovo to against Samsung.
I think it's good, Google needs partners and vendors needs android. So, Motorola was a problem. This answers also limited availability of Moto X and Moto G. Motorola under Google was "undervolted" because vendors
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
I guess Motorola is now considered a "low end" cell phone company. That's all Lenovo does is low end business. They just bought IBM's low end server business last week. Our company supplies us with Lenovo laptops, they suck.
It's amazing how experiences can differ so greatly. My last four business laptops (including the one I'm using right now) were Lenovo ThinkPads. They were the best laptops I've ever had (and I had many). I even kept one as my private laptop. If for some reason I had to buy a new laptop right now, it would be a ThinkPad. A lot of my peers here share this opinion. I've never heard anybody complain about a ThinkPad, ever (well, except maybe girls, because they're "too black and ugly", lol).
I know next to nothing about IBM's server line so I can't comment on that.
Back on topic. I don't really know what to make of this deal. So far Lenovo has been making reasonably decent smartphones but there weren't many and they weren't really marketed too much. Maybe they're looking into changing that, just like buying the ThinkPad line from IBM was in fact their way to a more global market? Not quite sure what Google is getting out of this.
Google is washing their hands of a money-losing business whilst keeping control of the patents (which is what they really bought Motorola Mobility for in the first place). Lenovo gets the Motorola brand name and marketing contacts in North America. Probably a pretty decent deal for both.
I've got an interest in the china phones available and the Lenovo smartphones, whilst not groundbreaking in any particular way, are very well thought of.
I don't think anyone can claim that they produce nothing but low end phones, either:
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/smartphones/vibe/vibe-z/#features
Snapdragon 800 chipset, 2GB memory, 5.5 inch fullHD screen, LTE support, Gorilla Glass 3, 13MP BSI camera and large battery. Hardly a low end device! Certainly much more powerful and highly-specced than any phone ever released by Motorola, in fact!
Similarly, I've never heard anybody complain about ThinkPads in the past as I've always thought that these are considered a cut about laptops from Acer, Asus, Toshiba and the like!
Exactly! Big G got it's share. The ThinkPad line was well translated from IBM. If they do the same with Motorola, it will do -at the very least- just fine with Lenovo.
The end of Motorola has been announced.
Will the Nexus 6 become a prized possession, reminiscent of Motorola's accomplishments? Or maybe it will be forgotten, collecting dust alongside other phones that fell victim to the expansive mobile industry.
For me personally, the Nexus 6 is perhaps the best Motorola phone made. Call it nostalgia, but I will always love my n6. Goodbye Motorola, and thanks for the memories.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Didnt know about the announcement but me an motorola go way back. People didn't even know what smartphone was back in the day (aside from tech people of course) and i was rocking Motorola mp200 windows smartphone edition, one of the best phones made. This is a sad day.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
So all products of Motorola are going away? It says they are still keeping the branding which makes it sound like they are removing the official name but still making the products under Levano
Lenovo isn't really ending Motorola Mobility. They are rebranding some phones like the Moto X and the budget devices will become Lenovo vibe phones.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Treasure.
I bought this stuff recently.
And I'm sure it's worth for 200$ disregarding its low quality.
Not worried about it. They are still keeping the Moto name though.
What`s in a name?
I don't see anything special with Nexus 6 except motorola's collabration with Google. Otherwise It is just a beefed up moto x. There were devices made and engineered by motorola once in a time and that era ended with the Droid Razr.
dryfy said:
The end of Motorola has been announced.
Will the Nexus 6 become a prized possession, reminiscent of Motorola's accomplishments? Or maybe it will be forgotten, collecting dust alongside other phones that fell victim to the expansive mobile industry.
For me personally, the Nexus 6 is perhaps the best Motorola phone made. Call it nostalgia, but I will always love my n6. Goodbye Motorola, and thanks for the memories.
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Either you misread the article you read on it, or the author of that article misread the press release from Lenovo.
What is happening, is they are redefining the Motorola BRAND as exclusively premium, and merging all of the non-premium offerings in with Lenovo.
In other words, Lenovo = low/mid tier products, Motorola = high.
This move is to prevent product duplication. There is no point in having a high-end motorola competing with a high-end lenovo and a low end motorola competing with a low end lenovo.
Nexus 6 is a premium device, and a similar product would still carry the Motorola branding. So for us, nothing to see here.
TREASURE
Nexus 6 on sale for $249-$299
AMAZON.com running brand new 32G and 64G Nexus 6 sale again, until February 1st.
doitright said:
Either you misread the article you read on it, or the author of that article misread the press release from Lenovo.
What is happening, is they are redefining the Motorola BRAND as exclusively premium, and merging all of the non-premium offerings in with Lenovo.
In other words, Lenovo = low/mid tier products, Motorola = high.
This move is to prevent product duplication. There is no point in having a high-end motorola competing with a high-end lenovo and a low end motorola competing with a low end lenovo.
Nexus 6 is a premium device, and a similar product would still carry the Motorola branding. So for us, nothing to see here.
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The thing that sucks is that they actually aren't using the full name "Motorola". The products will be just "MOTO" and they're keeping the "M" logo. You're right about the plan though:
Lenovo, which bought Motorola Mobility from Google in 2014, is unifying its two phone businesses under the Lenovo name. It's going to use Motorola's Moto brand for high-end products and its homegrown Vibe brand for budget devices. The Motorola name isn't completely gone. It will live on from a corporate perspective as a division of the Chinese consumer-electronics giant, said Motorola Chief Operating Officer Rick Osterloh... his business group will soon take over all mobile operations at Lenovo. This means bringing Vibe phones into markets where Moto exists, and vice versa.
In markets where the Lenovo name is strong, the company intends to introduce the Moto line as an upscale product.
- CNet
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Dusty Rhodes said:
The thing that sucks is that they actually aren't using the full name "Motorola". The products will be just "MOTO" and they're keeping the "M" logo. You're right about the plan though:
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I wasn't aware of that aspect of it.
Well, what else could you expect from China?
Treasure
Trash for sure. The Motorola Nexus 6 is the biggest piece of junk garbage phone I've ever owned. I take my phone out to take a photo of something and I'm waiting for the camera app to open so I can take the photo, my wife takes her iPhone out and takes the photo before my Nexus 6 will respond. I'm on my 2nd Nexus 6 and about to ask for another RMA because of the garbled/distorted notification sounds issue that so many others have. What really pisses me off is that I used to enjoy flashing custom ROMs and all that fun stuff - now I stick to only the Google images or Android N previews and I'm afraid to root the phone because it's so damned buggy. This phone undoubtedly has been the worst android phone experience I've had. I used to love flashing the custom ROMs and having all the new features - now I just want a phone that I can reliably use. I can't wait for my 2 year contract with Project Fi to end so I can get a different phone.
Treasure...love my N6.
Treasure. Though it was a toss-up between the Nexus 6 and the Moto X Pure 2015, the Nexus won out. My roommate got the Pure.
Treasure of course .
Definitely treasure. I've had my N6 since December and couldn't be happier. Huge screen, good build quality, wireless and turbo charging, excellent front speakers, great battery life (6+ hrs SOT) good enough camera and lots of custom ROMs.
Treasure of course. I have been using it for 3 months and it's the best Android I have ever owned. And i have not experienced any lags or hiccups whatsoever. Everything is smooth, battery timing is great. Couldn't be happier.