Related
I know it's a little too early for this thread but it's going to be an interesting topics which will be debated endlessly in the next couple months. Lets face it, CES did little to convince us either options will be superior.
Background information:
Windows 8 seems to be designed for not only tablets in mind, but how the OS is intended to be used. In order to make this possible Mircosoft is designing a version of the OS to be used on ARM processors. ARM processors, found in today's tablets and smartphones, are designed for high preformance with low power consumption.
At the same time Intel has invested a lot of money and research to develop the Clover Trial Atom processor. The atom processors are the processors found in yesterdays notebooks but this new design is also intended for low power consumption.
Known Characteristics of Each:
ARM:
HTML 5 apps only
Possibly Metro UI Only
Low heat
Clover Trail:
x86 architecture. Legacy apps will be compatible as well as HTML 5 apps
Lower preformace than sandy bridge processors
Looking at the above list it seems easy to pick the clover trail but the arm processors are likely to offer better battery life.
Heat issues are also a historic known issue on x86 processors, will continue with clover trail? If a tablet requires a fan width becomes an issue.
I will continue to update the characteristic lists as updates come out so everyone can make the best informed decision possible.
-writing this from my iPad 2 which I can't wait to ditch for something in the Windows 8 flavor
Even on a tablet, I hate the win8 look. I just want my win7 desktop on my iPad 2 also.
I don't think W8 will be as innovative as they say. Windows-8 will either be a hit or a big miss.
I see at least one error in your description, however: Windows 8 on ARM will not be limited to only the HTML5+Javascript apps. They've already demonstrated applications compiled for ARM specifically (including MS Office), so it's safe to conclude we'll see both.
Personally, I LOVE the Metro UI. I think it's the most brilliant shift in UI design in the last 30 years.
For me, I'll be going Windows 8 on ARM and tossing my iPad to the side (probably sell it) as soon as it's available. I'll keep my Windows 7 desktop as-is for the sake of x86/x64 applications in a traditional interface, but Windows 8 is where the market's going. In spite of the naysayers, the odds of it failing are very, very small.
Even Windows Vista, which was a fairly awful product at launch, sold very well (not as well as XP or now 7, but still, well over 200 million units), so it's not remotely a stretch to think that Windows 8, which is slim, light and mind numbingly fast, will also sell well.
Intel's Medfield Atom has proven to be a better performer than the ARM A9 core while offering similar/better power consumption on paper. Personally I don't care for either. I'd rather get ULV Ivy Bridge and live with 4-5 hours of batterylife and probably 8-10 with a keyboard dock, if available.
A ULV Broadwell in 2014 will make all of this moot anyway, x86 chips are more powerful and has major productivity software on lock because of it. Intel is now taking heat/power consumption very seriously and Metro apps for the most part are cross platform so it's Intel's to lose, don't forget that.
dont bet against Intel.... their upcoming tri-gate and finfet tech are gonna put them right in the same league as ARM as far as power consumption is concerned..
if I were a betting man, I'd bet that ARM Windows will be a niche player, while x86 windows will continue to be the dominant flavor, even for tablets, because of Intel's ability to bring down power consumption and price.
That, plus the standardization of x86, and ability for users to install legacy apps + mess around with their OS in an easy way will sway the market far in x86's favor...
Windows 8 has one silver lining left, and that's the Office suite. Android still has no good alternative, and Apple as a killer office app, but not THE Office app.
As long as Microsoft has the mouse behave like a finger, with swiping etc.... Then they'll stand a chance. I wouldn't bet on MS though... for the consumer segment, they need strong solid partnerships, and so far they only have Nokia.
coolqf said:
Windows 8 has one silver lining left, and that's the Office suite. Android still has no good alternative, and Apple as a killer office app, but not THE Office app.
As long as Microsoft has the mouse behave like a finger, with swiping etc.... Then they'll stand a chance. I wouldn't bet on MS though... for the consumer segment, they need strong solid partnerships, and so far they only have Nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about? They have everyone for Windows 8. Android tablets aren't selling like their phone counterparts, are OEMs are waiting impatiently to jump on board with Windows 8. Windows still has many major productivity software for 3D rendering, design (pick any type), video, etc. Android has ICS's movie make and super gimped up Adobe touch apps. Android tablets are nothing more than giant mobile phones. Windows 8 tablets will be Metro touch apps that equal Android mobile apps plus all the desktop software we professionals use.
x86 is miles ahead of arm. as soon as dev's make arm ports of x86 apps i dont know if i will bother with windows 8 on arm until then
2 questions/thoughts... call it what you will.
1. ARM ver of Win8 will (or not?) be way more closed than current (traditional Windows approach) - sort of like Windows Phone is now. Meaning if you want an app you have to get it of the store (ONLY) not from any website like today with Windows. True or False?
If true... imho this is a very bad news for ARM ver of software.
Let say you live in Europe and you want/need program that is specific for US store only. What will you do in such case? Even iOS (bad, closed system, controlled by BIG, BAD APPLE) is more frindly about this tnah Android or Windows Phone.
2. Is it possible (for current ARM SOC's) to emulate x86 (in order to get older soft to work)? I dont think so.
On the other hand x86 should be more than capable to "pretend" it is ARM device . In such case having x86 W8 onboard means we cen als use ARM software if we want to need to (unless both x86 and ARM W8 will be lock tight - but than why would anyone jump of Win7????).
fact is we have no idea what RT will bring to the table or what the software will or will not be able to do, but if we look at the hardware we see a few notable differences
ARM, ultra low watt consumption (potentially good battery life), High performance BUT less grunt so to speak, cheaper price point
x86, higher power consumption(potentially a shorter battery life compared to ARM), High performance but more bang per buck, more expensive price point.
there is a distinct difference between the two models, a difference which I think will be very important. Most every day folk will not need more than ARM, for everyone else including many business users, x86 is there
Being able to run x86 code is my primary concern, im not talking heavy work, the programs are small and light, but x86 is essential for the time being for it to be flexible.
However provided RT isn't completely tied down like WP is AND is at a reasonable price point, I think it will make great inroads in the Low/Mid range tablet market.
I started looking into tablets after September last fall. I wanted something that would give me the most bang for the buck, or at least the minimum compromise. Things broke out in 3 general sections as mentioned previously: ARM, Atom/AMDCxx and X86/AMD (higher end iCore style).
As Windows 8 goes, there will be no real difference between Atom and X86. The instruction sets are the same. Both will support Metro and Windows Legacy apps.
ARM will only support Metro.
Price seems to break along those lines, but I found an exception.
I expect the ARM versions to run in the neighborhood of $400 and less; the Atom class to be in the $400 to $800; and the full X86 to be $600 and up. Of course equipment will also impact this price.
Probably, the most significant piece of equipment will be the screen. While pricing current machines for ARM and Atom (as well as X86), the 1366x1024 resolution was rare and it is required for a split screen feature of the Metro interface.
In the end, I picked a Dell Duo with a dual core hyperthreading Atom processor because it had the required resolution and the price was down as low as anything I could find. I also got a keyboard, but suffered the weight and short battery life.
Performance has been good in most situations, though tinkering with Unity 3d seems like a bad idea on the Atom with Windows 8 (but it's not a release OS yet). And performance lags a little in Unity 3d game execution, too.
Metro looks good to me so far.
So, for an iPad style consumption usage I think the ARM is probably going to work great. Dual core if you can get it.
For a little heavier usage and legacy aps, you'll want an Atom type systyem. I'd say dual core minimum.
And if you want superior performance with no compromise, as always, expect to put the green on the table.
Something on the subject:
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2173...V3&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Twitterfeed
Lurk said:
In the end, I picked a Dell Duo with a dual core hyperthreading Atom processor because it had the required resolution and the price was down as low as anything I could find. I also got a keyboard, but suffered the weight and short battery life.
Performance has been good in most situations, though tinkering with Unity 3d seems like a bad idea on the Atom with Windows 8 (but it's not a release OS yet). And performance lags a little in Unity 3d game execution, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does internet video work for you on Win 8? What Atom is in your Duo?
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------
dazza9075 said:
There is a distinct difference between the two models, a difference which I think will be very important. Most every day folk will not need more than ARM, for everyone else including many business users, x86 is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually expect a number of our business users on RT. We won't push them to it, but the option will probably be given.
Today they use:
Web based tools.
A few silverlight sites.
Office
We're likely to port our silverlight apps to METRO, first one took a little under a day. At that point, if they wanted an iPad like device, with the new news about sideloading: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstor...deploying-metro-style-apps-to-businesses.aspx
It is a pretty good fit.
Obviously designers, ops, etc are not going to find RT sufficient, but I expect a subset will. We have some that only use iPads today anyway.
michiganenginerd said:
How does internet video work for you on Win 8? What Atom is in your Duo?
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same question.
I had Asus 1201N (but it had dual core Atom 330 onboard + Nvidia ION card) - no problems with any video but it was HOT, VERY HOT and very noisy.
I kept Samsung NC10 (same atom chip as in 1201N but single core only and no ION). Watching any video on it is a nightmare :-(. Even YT is not working well.
How does internet video work for you on Win 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internet video seems to be very good. Currently, things run fairly smoothly. The connection speed is a bigger impact than the processor speed.
Odd item. I just tested real quick and I can now play YouTube videos in the Metro browser. I guess they have the HTML 5 delivery working.
HD on Netflix is a little choppy right now and stutters in the desktop browser. It could be the connection.
What Atom is in your Duo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N570 @1.67ghz
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I worried about performkance. That's why I went for a dual core at a minimum. The earlier Duo had an N560(?) at 1.5ghz. I don't think it would be enough. Again, it might be the connection, but @ HD right now, it's borderline.
Of course. sometimes it comes down to the video card/processor, too.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't experienced any issues around the edges ... or any where on the screen. I am pleased overall with the unit and was a bit disappointed when they stopped producing them in December. But, it was largely a test unit.
Thanks for the info Lurk.
Clover Trail pics
I found this article while browsing on tabletpcreview forum.
An online writer Padmx Max, got access to Clover Trails and took some pics of the board and the processor: here is the link
http://www.padmx.com/portal.php?mod=view&aid=1707
The processor is actually stacked under the memory so you can't really see it.
But it is an interesting idea.
Not sure it is Intel Z2580 or z2760 tho.
1. Are the only Windows 8 tablets without a fan equipped with Intel Atom Z2760 CPU?
2. What would you suggest when I would want a Windows 8 tablet without a fan?
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
Given that x86-capable processors run pretty hot, you're not going to find a lot of options. Some of the Atom chips may get by on passive cooling... maybe. Frankly, if you want a fan-less tablet, that usually means ARM, and that means Windows RT.
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
1. All Atom tablets are fanless as far as I know. My Samsung 500T barely even got warm and I think that was more the LCD than the processor. I don't believe there are any other x86 processors that are fanless right now.
2. Obvious an Atom tablet. You'll probably need to narrow it down a bit on what you are looking for. Is the tablet form factor more important or the laptop form factor. If using it as a tablet is more important, you'll probably want a lighter and smaller 10.1 inch tablet like the upcoming ASUS Vivotab Smart. If you want a laptop form factor with keyboard for typing, then a 11.6 inch tablet is idea for the larger keyboard size. Also do you need a pen built in, do you need a Wacom digitizer?
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that thin at all. Windows RT tablets will never be able to run x86 desktop applications with it's ARM processor. That hack just lets you run unsigned Windows RT ARM applications.
---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------
PS. Maybe AMD's Temash APU might be fanless. Not entirely sure yet. It's shipping Q2 this year, but don't know when we'll see any tablets with it inside.
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
GoodDayToDie said:
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An alpha tool made 4 days ago that can run notepad.exe and a 14 year old 2D game on an ARM processor. How could I have missed that?
Can you even install Photoshop, much less run it with this alpha tool yet? You can barely run Photoshop on an Atom, I think running it on an ARM through emulation will be more than painful.
I think it's a bit premature to be touting this as a solution to running x86 apps on an ARM tablet.
I view it quite differently: in any four days, an alpha tools has been written that can run simple apps, even old games, without recompiling them... and has already dramatically improved in performance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're going to be completely be able to replace an x86 machine with an ARM one... but the reason for that is simply a matter of performance of the underlying hardware. For low-demand stuff (the kind of thing you might run on a fanless tablet anyhow) it's not an unreasonable goal. Of course it's not there yet... but a week ago, it wasn't possible at all.
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
Wrong post.
kaspar737 said:
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
Ravynmagi said:
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
kaspar737 said:
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows RT apps run on Windows 8 too and Windows 8 will be shipped on millions and millions of computers around the world. So I think the Windows Store apps (aka Metro style) that run on RT and 8 will eventually show up in good numbers from developers. So if you do go with Windows RT, the apps will come, even if people abandon the OS and hardware platform.
Windows 8 has the best of both worlds though, you can run the RT apps and the x86 apps. And the Atom is the best of both worlds, the efficiency of an ARM processor with the ability to run x86 apps.
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
GoodDayToDie said:
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
Ravynmagi said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could just link to the article
And, yes, the Atom Z2760 is more power efficient.
As far as tablets go, though, all the Atom tablets I've looked at have felt like cheap toys, whereas the Surface is possibly the best built device I've ever used. That's the main reason I chose the Surface RT, it just blows all the competition away in build quality.
As far as applications go, neither the Atom nor the Tegra are very well suited for intensive tasks like Photoshop and the like. They're both going to perform quite poorly at those tasks.
The Atom does have the existing software library, though in reality a large number of what people will need/want to use has already been ported over to Arm.
An interesting thing to note is that even though the Atom is more efficient than the Tegra the Surface still had better battery life compared to the W510 by almost an hour.
Build Quality: Surface beats W510 hands down. Acer has okay build quality, but the Surface is superb.
Performance: The Atom nudges out the Tegra
Applications: Any applications that need x86 won't be usable on the Atom, but they will run, so the Atom wins. The Tegra is rapidly catching up, though.
Battery Life: The Surface beat the W510 by nearly an hour, therefore I'm calling it in favor of the Surface. The Atom itself is more efficient, but that doesn't mean that the tablets built using the Atom are.
I stand corrected. Atom, even an older Atom, is surprisingly competitive with ARM on a power efficiency standpoint. I don't know that I agree with handing it the win outright, it won some of the "total usage" charts but lost some of the others, occasionally substantially. It's certainly a viable option for a mobile device though. Interesting... time was, Intel had difficulty squeezing their chips down to 5W, while ARM was expected to run at around 300mW. Apparently I need to keep a better eye on these things.
I'm searching for a tablet that comes with a full windows 8 but that is also supported by the linux kernel so I could install Ubuntu on it.
I thought that an atom Z2760 based tablet was the way to go, but I've discovered that that processor is not nor will be supported by the linux kernel, so that was a no go.
Atom Z2760 based tablets were relatively not so expensive, so I'm looking for a tablet that costs under 500 euros/550$ and the screen size to be 8" or above (10" would be perfect)
Do you have any suggestions for me?
Thanks in advance!
As you point out, the atom tablets cannot run linux. That leaves you with intel core i3/i5/i7. I dont know of any within your budget.
Only things I can think of are either
A) wait quite a while. The bay trail CPU's are back to what you expect and are normal x86 processors capable of running windows 8 and linux if you wish. However I dont think they are due until 2014.
B) Virtualbox on an atom tablet. No one wants to do that really.
C) Increase your budget.
If you don't mind *installing* Win8 rather than having it come pre-installed, there are plenty of older tablet PCs which will do the job, and while most of them initially retailed for far above your cutoff price, you can usually find them fairly cheap nowadays.
For example, here's an older Dell Latitude 10 tablet that uses an Oak Trail Atom CPU and runs Win7 by default, and is in your price range: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...arch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22&puid=2e477084
Bear in mind though: those specs are pretty bad by today's standards. It will run Win8, and it will run any desktop Linux distro I know of, but it won't run either one terribly well.
Thanks for your replies, really appreciate them!
Ok, I guess I'll just pass this generation of affordable Win8 tablets and get a laptop.
Once again, thanks for your help!
Hi,
Is there any chance of dualbooting Dell Venue 8 Pro with Windows 8 and Android? I like Windows 8 but would also like to be able to use Android on this awesome tablet.
If not dual boot, is there any other way of using Android as virtual machine or something that provides full touch and other sensor's support?
Thanks.
Don't "think" Android. Think Linux instead. It theoretically can be done, but the fact that the UEFI is 32bit while Linux uses 64bit.
You would disable Secure Boot in the BIOS. The other issue is a lack of drivers for the touchscreen during installation.
The stress isn't worth it in my opinion. Leave the device stock as is.
I'm waiting for my Venue to arrive. I plan to try running Android on it with Genymotion
http://www.genymotion.com/
Not worth it
A_Str8 said:
I'm waiting for my Venue to arrive. I plan to try running Android on it with Genymotion
http://www.genymotion.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm downloading it now since it is just an emulator running inside VirtualBox.
There are many Android games, that I've already boght and would want to be able to play on the Venue8 Pro. I'll let you know how it works out in a few hours.
EDIT: I've installed and ran the application. As it stated, it is really just an emulator VirtualBox running a stripped down Android image.
Enabling my real cam with the emulator gave me my first BSOD. Installed a few premium games that I had purchased on my real device. The frame rate in the virtual environment wasn't smooth. It was obvious that you were using an emulator. Genymotion is a very good attempt at emulating Andriod on a running PC, however this solution is not for me. It isn't a replacement for a dual-boot scenario with the native OS.
So what would you guys recommend? I have tried both BlueStacks player and an Android virual machine on my Venue 8 Pro. I really want to be running Android smoothly.
To be honest, Genymotion, is smoother than Bluestacks, since it has the Vanilla Android interface (without Samsung's Touchwiz or HTC's Sense). The problem is with trying to use the tablet's hardware such as the camera or gyroscope. The process is then not smooth and gameplay (for serious graphic intensive android games) are choppy or lagging at best. You get the feeling that it is all being emulated and not virtualized in the true sense.
I'm convinced you would have better success running Linux natively then finding a method of running Android apps as opposed to running Android on the device.
Android requires an ARM SoC processor. The Venue 8 Pro uses a full X86/64-bit processor. Therefore Android would need to be re-compiled. This isn't worth the effort in my opinion.
I'm wondering if these instructions will work for the Venue. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2321292
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
It looks plausible. I'd create a system image of my entire system partiotion before even attempting this.
Anonymously_Unknown said:
To be honest, Genymotion, is smoother than Bluestacks, since it has the Vanilla Android interface (without Samsung's Touchwiz or HTC's Sense). The problem is with trying to use the tablet's hardware such as the camera or gyroscope. The process is then not smooth and gameplay (for serious graphic intensive android games) are choppy or lagging at best. You get the feeling that it is all being emulated and not virtualized in the true sense.
I'm convinced you would have better success running Linux natively then finding a method of running Android apps as opposed to running Android on the device.
Android requires an ARM SoC processor. The Venue 8 Pro uses a full X86/64-bit processor. Therefore Android would need to be re-compiled. This isn't worth the effort in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But isn't install Linux also difficult (given the UEFI problems)? And will I be able to run Android apps smoothly on Linux somehow?
Linux to me would be easier since it already "exists" for PC. You should be able to install it in theory with a USB mouse and keyboard attached to a USB hub. Android on the other hand would simply not work "natively" with your Dell Venue 8 since it would have to be re-compiled for this purpose. I can't imagine why the source code for an Android app can't be re-compiled for Linux despite the differences in processor type.
My only desire for Android on my Tablet is to be able to play all those games that I've bought for my Samsung Galaxy Note2,
If I knew how to compile Android from source code and simply slipstream the touchscreen drivers that would be great. Let's agree to propose this to the developers in the phone section of this forum such as Cyanogem Mod so that something can be custom built for our devices.
Contrary to the above poster. There is no issue with android across architectures.
Android apps are compiled to dalvik bytecode and run within the dalvik virtual machine. Its platform independent. x86 builds of android exist. There are x86 android devices on shelves, there is android-x86 and there is android-ia. Android is also available on MIPS processors. Community ports to PowerPC have been done. As long as you have a dalvik virtual machine you can run the dalvik bytecode, problem solved.
The driver issue is a big one. x86 operating systems dont have the issue of having to target different devices. But there arent touchscreen, wifi, bluetooth or sensor drivers for all combinations of hardware out there. The asus w700 seems to be the device best off in that regard.
Theoretically it could be done for the venue though. Without those drivers though it will be unusably slow (software drawn screen etc) and interaction wouldnt be possible without external USB.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
x86 builds of android exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for letting me know.
Has anyone given this a go with the Venue Pro 8 yet? The IA (Intel architecture) android project seems quite mature. You could try booting from an SD card?
CL0SeY said:
Has anyone given this a go with the Venue Pro 8 yet? The IA (Intel architecture) android project seems quite mature. You could try booting from an SD card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking of trying that but was too afraid to run into a problem that would ruin my new tablet.
Atom x86 phones and tablets use libhoudini to be able to run arm apps, so android dual boot is theoretically possible
SM N9005 Rocking Temasek CM11 With Temasek Kernel
xueyao said:
Atom x86 phones and tablets use libhoudini to be able to run arm apps, so android dual boot is theoretically possible
SM N9005 Rocking Temasek CM11 With Temasek Kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats a different problem and solution entirely
CL0SeY said:
Has anyone given this a go with the Venue Pro 8 yet? The IA (Intel architecture) android project seems quite mature. You could try booting from an SD card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, booting from an SD card is not an possible. That's what has stopped me from trying this. I'm not interested in resizing my C drive
In theory, it sounds like the Acer instructions should work on the Dell, but once you're in Android, there may be some driver issues.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
A_Str8 said:
From what I've read, booting from an SD card is not an possible. That's what has stopped me from trying this. I'm not interested in resizing my C drive
In theory, it sounds like the Acer instructions should work on the Dell, but once you're in Android, there may be some driver issues.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am planning to give this a try if it this doesn't break my Venue 8 Pro. Will it break it?
elixir_pr said:
I am planning to give this a try if it this doesn't break my Venue 8 Pro. Will it break it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is never any guarantee of not breaking a device! Perhaps starting with a USB OTG cable and booting the USB might be a first step - without installing to the device... that is if that is possible. I know it worked on my x86-64bit laptop, but the Venue Pro 8 is 32 bit apparently?
Anyway I don't have a Venue Pro 8 of my own... perhaps there is a guide somewhere on taking a full backup of your SSD in the device (or a similar device), including all the partitions etc?
CL0SeY said:
There is never any guarantee of not breaking a device! Perhaps starting with a USB OTG cable and booting the USB might be a first step - without installing to the device... that is if that is possible. I know it worked on my x86-64bit laptop, but the Venue Pro 8 is 32 bit apparently?
Anyway I don't have a Venue Pro 8 of my own... perhaps there is a guide somewhere on taking a full backup of your SSD in the device (or a similar device), including all the partitions etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I about to take the plunge very soon. I just completed the usb part of the tut. I am gonna use the IA3 file. I guess Ill see what happens soon. I already took the time to offload my backup on a usb, initially to make more space since I got the 16gig which really left me with only 6-8 gb. Taking out the recovery partition made about 3.45 gb free from the tab.
I already disabled "Secure Boot"
After doing this and restarting this you will run into the problem about the bitlocker and needing to type in your bitlocker code from MS again. You could bypass and disable this by hitting disable bitlocker. But for the concern it will come up. I plan on making a thread for this and be the pioneer guy.
So yeah kinda scared to start it as I got this when MS store had there $99 deal.... waited for 8 hours till i got mine and hate to break it....
Hello,
I am going to buy a tablet PC soon. I have decided to go for a Windows 8.1 tablet, which are available for about the same price as HDX
My options are:
Dell Venue 8 Pro
Acer Iconia W4
Lenovo Miix 2 8
Is the Intel Atom Z3740D processor in Venue 8 Pro better than the Intel Atom Z3740 in the other two?
The benchmark scores available on different review sites are conflicting. While the Iconia W4 is ahead with HDMI output, the Lenovo Miix 2 8 is officially supported by the upcoming ConsoleOS, which would allow dual booting Windows and Android, getting the best of both worlds.
Do you have any experience with any of these tablets? Suggestions Awaited.
Thanks
LaNoire said:
Hello,
I am going to buy a tablet PC soon. I have decided to go for a Windows 8.1 tablet, which are available for about the same price as HDX
My options are:
Dell Venue 8 Pro
Acer Iconia W4
Lenovo Miix 2 8
Is the Intel Atom Z3740D processor in Venue 8 Pro better than the Intel Atom Z3740 in the other two?
The benchmark scores available on different review sites are conflicting. While the Iconia W4 is ahead with HDMI output, the Lenovo Miix 2 8 is officially supported by the upcoming ConsoleOS, which would allow dual booting Windows and Android, getting the best of both worlds.
Do you have any experience with any of these tablets? Suggestions Awaited.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between the Z3740 and Z3740D is miniscule, considering the benchmark data I've seen.
From your list I'd consider the Dell as the best choice - that is: if they finally managed to get the digitizer to work properly and last more than a week or two
Personally, I've got an Asus Vivotab Note 8. It's in the same category as the tablets you've listed. It comes with a Wacom Digitizer (same technology as in the Samsung Note phablets) which I consider to be an essential tool for the tablet.
The screen is just too small hit checkboxes etc with your finger
And about ConsoleOS: I'd be careful. If it's actually being released: great. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Have a look at this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2782798
There's a lot of information on it and why it looks like a scam
Fahrertuer said:
The difference between the Z3740 and Z3740D is miniscule, considering the benchmark data I've seen.
From your list I'd consider the Dell as the best choice - that is: if they finally managed to get the digitizer to work properly and last more than a week or two
Personally, I've got an Asus Vivotab Note 8. It's in the same category as the tablets you've listed. It comes with a Wacom Digitizer (same technology as in the Samsung Note phablets) which I consider to be an essential tool for the tablet.
The screen is just too small hit checkboxes etc with your finger
And about ConsoleOS: I'd be careful. If it's actually being released: great. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Have a look at this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2782798
There's a lot of information on it and why it looks like a scam
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the input. The digitizer is of little use to me because my purpose is gaming. I know that these are entry level tablets, but they still can run some recent games at playable FPS. There are some videos on youtube where these tablets are shown running relatively newer games like Skyrim (2011) and Tomb Raider (2013). There is even a video where the VivoTab Note 8 is running GTA IV! Besides, you could run loads of older games and even PS2 games.
As for ConsoleOS, the one thing that makes it look real is that the company behind it, MMV, has in the past created an android based console. This console was reviewed by enGadget at MMV's office.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/13/iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console/
I think I will watch some comparision videos and then make a decision.
Cheers
LaNoire said:
Thank you for the input. The digitizer is of little use to me because my purpose is gaming. I know that these are entry level tablets, but they still can run some recent games at playable FPS. There are some videos on youtube where these tablets are shown running relatively newer games like Skyrim (2011) and Tomb Raider (2013). There is even a video where the VivoTab Note 8 is running GTA IV! Besides, you could run loads of older games and even PS2 games.
As for ConsoleOS, the one thing that makes it look real is that the company behind it, MMV, has in the past created an android based console. This console was reviewed by enGadget at MMV's office.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/13/iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console/
I think I will watch some comparision videos and then make a decision.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better do some research.....they never delivered on their iconsole.tv and iconsole.tv apps store that
they were going to deliver in Nov./Dec. 2013.........and simply jumped to consoleOS in what June 2014......
said they had been working "in stealth" mode for 18 months yet cannot produce any code / downloadable code for test builds / etc.
their going to produce a special Apps Store with consoleos also...yet they failed to deliver on the iconsole.tv one...!!!
everything is a lot of talk.....NOTHING verifiable by anyone...the press only puts out what their given...as they dump massive amounts of
press releases....oh and their videos and appearances at different Intel developer forums......yet no one in the press has shown a download,
or a test build that they have used to verify any of the claims....the press is only interested in page clicks to generate revenue...no time to verify anything with the tough questions that really matter....all they have shown is the same things that others Asus,Dell, etc. had already shown, before Microsoft and Google shut down dual-booting of Windows with Android......
most likely a scam...
Actually I Like The Dell Venu 8 pro But I Don't Know If It Still 32GB SSD
..