1. Are the only Windows 8 tablets without a fan equipped with Intel Atom Z2760 CPU?
2. What would you suggest when I would want a Windows 8 tablet without a fan?
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
Given that x86-capable processors run pretty hot, you're not going to find a lot of options. Some of the Atom chips may get by on passive cooling... maybe. Frankly, if you want a fan-less tablet, that usually means ARM, and that means Windows RT.
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
1. All Atom tablets are fanless as far as I know. My Samsung 500T barely even got warm and I think that was more the LCD than the processor. I don't believe there are any other x86 processors that are fanless right now.
2. Obvious an Atom tablet. You'll probably need to narrow it down a bit on what you are looking for. Is the tablet form factor more important or the laptop form factor. If using it as a tablet is more important, you'll probably want a lighter and smaller 10.1 inch tablet like the upcoming ASUS Vivotab Smart. If you want a laptop form factor with keyboard for typing, then a 11.6 inch tablet is idea for the larger keyboard size. Also do you need a pen built in, do you need a Wacom digitizer?
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
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Click to collapse
It's not that thin at all. Windows RT tablets will never be able to run x86 desktop applications with it's ARM processor. That hack just lets you run unsigned Windows RT ARM applications.
---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------
PS. Maybe AMD's Temash APU might be fanless. Not entirely sure yet. It's shipping Q2 this year, but don't know when we'll see any tablets with it inside.
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
GoodDayToDie said:
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An alpha tool made 4 days ago that can run notepad.exe and a 14 year old 2D game on an ARM processor. How could I have missed that?
Can you even install Photoshop, much less run it with this alpha tool yet? You can barely run Photoshop on an Atom, I think running it on an ARM through emulation will be more than painful.
I think it's a bit premature to be touting this as a solution to running x86 apps on an ARM tablet.
I view it quite differently: in any four days, an alpha tools has been written that can run simple apps, even old games, without recompiling them... and has already dramatically improved in performance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're going to be completely be able to replace an x86 machine with an ARM one... but the reason for that is simply a matter of performance of the underlying hardware. For low-demand stuff (the kind of thing you might run on a fanless tablet anyhow) it's not an unreasonable goal. Of course it's not there yet... but a week ago, it wasn't possible at all.
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
Wrong post.
kaspar737 said:
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
Ravynmagi said:
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
kaspar737 said:
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Windows RT apps run on Windows 8 too and Windows 8 will be shipped on millions and millions of computers around the world. So I think the Windows Store apps (aka Metro style) that run on RT and 8 will eventually show up in good numbers from developers. So if you do go with Windows RT, the apps will come, even if people abandon the OS and hardware platform.
Windows 8 has the best of both worlds though, you can run the RT apps and the x86 apps. And the Atom is the best of both worlds, the efficiency of an ARM processor with the ability to run x86 apps.
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
GoodDayToDie said:
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
Ravynmagi said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could just link to the article
And, yes, the Atom Z2760 is more power efficient.
As far as tablets go, though, all the Atom tablets I've looked at have felt like cheap toys, whereas the Surface is possibly the best built device I've ever used. That's the main reason I chose the Surface RT, it just blows all the competition away in build quality.
As far as applications go, neither the Atom nor the Tegra are very well suited for intensive tasks like Photoshop and the like. They're both going to perform quite poorly at those tasks.
The Atom does have the existing software library, though in reality a large number of what people will need/want to use has already been ported over to Arm.
An interesting thing to note is that even though the Atom is more efficient than the Tegra the Surface still had better battery life compared to the W510 by almost an hour.
Build Quality: Surface beats W510 hands down. Acer has okay build quality, but the Surface is superb.
Performance: The Atom nudges out the Tegra
Applications: Any applications that need x86 won't be usable on the Atom, but they will run, so the Atom wins. The Tegra is rapidly catching up, though.
Battery Life: The Surface beat the W510 by nearly an hour, therefore I'm calling it in favor of the Surface. The Atom itself is more efficient, but that doesn't mean that the tablets built using the Atom are.
I stand corrected. Atom, even an older Atom, is surprisingly competitive with ARM on a power efficiency standpoint. I don't know that I agree with handing it the win outright, it won some of the "total usage" charts but lost some of the others, occasionally substantially. It's certainly a viable option for a mobile device though. Interesting... time was, Intel had difficulty squeezing their chips down to 5W, while ARM was expected to run at around 300mW. Apparently I need to keep a better eye on these things.
Related
I know it's a little too early for this thread but it's going to be an interesting topics which will be debated endlessly in the next couple months. Lets face it, CES did little to convince us either options will be superior.
Background information:
Windows 8 seems to be designed for not only tablets in mind, but how the OS is intended to be used. In order to make this possible Mircosoft is designing a version of the OS to be used on ARM processors. ARM processors, found in today's tablets and smartphones, are designed for high preformance with low power consumption.
At the same time Intel has invested a lot of money and research to develop the Clover Trial Atom processor. The atom processors are the processors found in yesterdays notebooks but this new design is also intended for low power consumption.
Known Characteristics of Each:
ARM:
HTML 5 apps only
Possibly Metro UI Only
Low heat
Clover Trail:
x86 architecture. Legacy apps will be compatible as well as HTML 5 apps
Lower preformace than sandy bridge processors
Looking at the above list it seems easy to pick the clover trail but the arm processors are likely to offer better battery life.
Heat issues are also a historic known issue on x86 processors, will continue with clover trail? If a tablet requires a fan width becomes an issue.
I will continue to update the characteristic lists as updates come out so everyone can make the best informed decision possible.
-writing this from my iPad 2 which I can't wait to ditch for something in the Windows 8 flavor
Even on a tablet, I hate the win8 look. I just want my win7 desktop on my iPad 2 also.
I don't think W8 will be as innovative as they say. Windows-8 will either be a hit or a big miss.
I see at least one error in your description, however: Windows 8 on ARM will not be limited to only the HTML5+Javascript apps. They've already demonstrated applications compiled for ARM specifically (including MS Office), so it's safe to conclude we'll see both.
Personally, I LOVE the Metro UI. I think it's the most brilliant shift in UI design in the last 30 years.
For me, I'll be going Windows 8 on ARM and tossing my iPad to the side (probably sell it) as soon as it's available. I'll keep my Windows 7 desktop as-is for the sake of x86/x64 applications in a traditional interface, but Windows 8 is where the market's going. In spite of the naysayers, the odds of it failing are very, very small.
Even Windows Vista, which was a fairly awful product at launch, sold very well (not as well as XP or now 7, but still, well over 200 million units), so it's not remotely a stretch to think that Windows 8, which is slim, light and mind numbingly fast, will also sell well.
Intel's Medfield Atom has proven to be a better performer than the ARM A9 core while offering similar/better power consumption on paper. Personally I don't care for either. I'd rather get ULV Ivy Bridge and live with 4-5 hours of batterylife and probably 8-10 with a keyboard dock, if available.
A ULV Broadwell in 2014 will make all of this moot anyway, x86 chips are more powerful and has major productivity software on lock because of it. Intel is now taking heat/power consumption very seriously and Metro apps for the most part are cross platform so it's Intel's to lose, don't forget that.
dont bet against Intel.... their upcoming tri-gate and finfet tech are gonna put them right in the same league as ARM as far as power consumption is concerned..
if I were a betting man, I'd bet that ARM Windows will be a niche player, while x86 windows will continue to be the dominant flavor, even for tablets, because of Intel's ability to bring down power consumption and price.
That, plus the standardization of x86, and ability for users to install legacy apps + mess around with their OS in an easy way will sway the market far in x86's favor...
Windows 8 has one silver lining left, and that's the Office suite. Android still has no good alternative, and Apple as a killer office app, but not THE Office app.
As long as Microsoft has the mouse behave like a finger, with swiping etc.... Then they'll stand a chance. I wouldn't bet on MS though... for the consumer segment, they need strong solid partnerships, and so far they only have Nokia.
coolqf said:
Windows 8 has one silver lining left, and that's the Office suite. Android still has no good alternative, and Apple as a killer office app, but not THE Office app.
As long as Microsoft has the mouse behave like a finger, with swiping etc.... Then they'll stand a chance. I wouldn't bet on MS though... for the consumer segment, they need strong solid partnerships, and so far they only have Nokia.
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Click to collapse
What are you talking about? They have everyone for Windows 8. Android tablets aren't selling like their phone counterparts, are OEMs are waiting impatiently to jump on board with Windows 8. Windows still has many major productivity software for 3D rendering, design (pick any type), video, etc. Android has ICS's movie make and super gimped up Adobe touch apps. Android tablets are nothing more than giant mobile phones. Windows 8 tablets will be Metro touch apps that equal Android mobile apps plus all the desktop software we professionals use.
x86 is miles ahead of arm. as soon as dev's make arm ports of x86 apps i dont know if i will bother with windows 8 on arm until then
2 questions/thoughts... call it what you will.
1. ARM ver of Win8 will (or not?) be way more closed than current (traditional Windows approach) - sort of like Windows Phone is now. Meaning if you want an app you have to get it of the store (ONLY) not from any website like today with Windows. True or False?
If true... imho this is a very bad news for ARM ver of software.
Let say you live in Europe and you want/need program that is specific for US store only. What will you do in such case? Even iOS (bad, closed system, controlled by BIG, BAD APPLE) is more frindly about this tnah Android or Windows Phone.
2. Is it possible (for current ARM SOC's) to emulate x86 (in order to get older soft to work)? I dont think so.
On the other hand x86 should be more than capable to "pretend" it is ARM device . In such case having x86 W8 onboard means we cen als use ARM software if we want to need to (unless both x86 and ARM W8 will be lock tight - but than why would anyone jump of Win7????).
fact is we have no idea what RT will bring to the table or what the software will or will not be able to do, but if we look at the hardware we see a few notable differences
ARM, ultra low watt consumption (potentially good battery life), High performance BUT less grunt so to speak, cheaper price point
x86, higher power consumption(potentially a shorter battery life compared to ARM), High performance but more bang per buck, more expensive price point.
there is a distinct difference between the two models, a difference which I think will be very important. Most every day folk will not need more than ARM, for everyone else including many business users, x86 is there
Being able to run x86 code is my primary concern, im not talking heavy work, the programs are small and light, but x86 is essential for the time being for it to be flexible.
However provided RT isn't completely tied down like WP is AND is at a reasonable price point, I think it will make great inroads in the Low/Mid range tablet market.
I started looking into tablets after September last fall. I wanted something that would give me the most bang for the buck, or at least the minimum compromise. Things broke out in 3 general sections as mentioned previously: ARM, Atom/AMDCxx and X86/AMD (higher end iCore style).
As Windows 8 goes, there will be no real difference between Atom and X86. The instruction sets are the same. Both will support Metro and Windows Legacy apps.
ARM will only support Metro.
Price seems to break along those lines, but I found an exception.
I expect the ARM versions to run in the neighborhood of $400 and less; the Atom class to be in the $400 to $800; and the full X86 to be $600 and up. Of course equipment will also impact this price.
Probably, the most significant piece of equipment will be the screen. While pricing current machines for ARM and Atom (as well as X86), the 1366x1024 resolution was rare and it is required for a split screen feature of the Metro interface.
In the end, I picked a Dell Duo with a dual core hyperthreading Atom processor because it had the required resolution and the price was down as low as anything I could find. I also got a keyboard, but suffered the weight and short battery life.
Performance has been good in most situations, though tinkering with Unity 3d seems like a bad idea on the Atom with Windows 8 (but it's not a release OS yet). And performance lags a little in Unity 3d game execution, too.
Metro looks good to me so far.
So, for an iPad style consumption usage I think the ARM is probably going to work great. Dual core if you can get it.
For a little heavier usage and legacy aps, you'll want an Atom type systyem. I'd say dual core minimum.
And if you want superior performance with no compromise, as always, expect to put the green on the table.
Something on the subject:
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2173...V3&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Twitterfeed
Lurk said:
In the end, I picked a Dell Duo with a dual core hyperthreading Atom processor because it had the required resolution and the price was down as low as anything I could find. I also got a keyboard, but suffered the weight and short battery life.
Performance has been good in most situations, though tinkering with Unity 3d seems like a bad idea on the Atom with Windows 8 (but it's not a release OS yet). And performance lags a little in Unity 3d game execution, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does internet video work for you on Win 8? What Atom is in your Duo?
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------
dazza9075 said:
There is a distinct difference between the two models, a difference which I think will be very important. Most every day folk will not need more than ARM, for everyone else including many business users, x86 is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually expect a number of our business users on RT. We won't push them to it, but the option will probably be given.
Today they use:
Web based tools.
A few silverlight sites.
Office
We're likely to port our silverlight apps to METRO, first one took a little under a day. At that point, if they wanted an iPad like device, with the new news about sideloading: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstor...deploying-metro-style-apps-to-businesses.aspx
It is a pretty good fit.
Obviously designers, ops, etc are not going to find RT sufficient, but I expect a subset will. We have some that only use iPads today anyway.
michiganenginerd said:
How does internet video work for you on Win 8? What Atom is in your Duo?
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same question.
I had Asus 1201N (but it had dual core Atom 330 onboard + Nvidia ION card) - no problems with any video but it was HOT, VERY HOT and very noisy.
I kept Samsung NC10 (same atom chip as in 1201N but single core only and no ION). Watching any video on it is a nightmare :-(. Even YT is not working well.
How does internet video work for you on Win 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internet video seems to be very good. Currently, things run fairly smoothly. The connection speed is a bigger impact than the processor speed.
Odd item. I just tested real quick and I can now play YouTube videos in the Metro browser. I guess they have the HTML 5 delivery working.
HD on Netflix is a little choppy right now and stutters in the desktop browser. It could be the connection.
What Atom is in your Duo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N570 @1.67ghz
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280
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I worried about performkance. That's why I went for a dual core at a minimum. The earlier Duo had an N560(?) at 1.5ghz. I don't think it would be enough. Again, it might be the connection, but @ HD right now, it's borderline.
Of course. sometimes it comes down to the video card/processor, too.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't experienced any issues around the edges ... or any where on the screen. I am pleased overall with the unit and was a bit disappointed when they stopped producing them in December. But, it was largely a test unit.
Thanks for the info Lurk.
Clover Trail pics
I found this article while browsing on tabletpcreview forum.
An online writer Padmx Max, got access to Clover Trails and took some pics of the board and the processor: here is the link
http://www.padmx.com/portal.php?mod=view&aid=1707
The processor is actually stacked under the memory so you can't really see it.
But it is an interesting idea.
Not sure it is Intel Z2580 or z2760 tho.
I'm searching for a tablet that comes with a full windows 8 but that is also supported by the linux kernel so I could install Ubuntu on it.
I thought that an atom Z2760 based tablet was the way to go, but I've discovered that that processor is not nor will be supported by the linux kernel, so that was a no go.
Atom Z2760 based tablets were relatively not so expensive, so I'm looking for a tablet that costs under 500 euros/550$ and the screen size to be 8" or above (10" would be perfect)
Do you have any suggestions for me?
Thanks in advance!
As you point out, the atom tablets cannot run linux. That leaves you with intel core i3/i5/i7. I dont know of any within your budget.
Only things I can think of are either
A) wait quite a while. The bay trail CPU's are back to what you expect and are normal x86 processors capable of running windows 8 and linux if you wish. However I dont think they are due until 2014.
B) Virtualbox on an atom tablet. No one wants to do that really.
C) Increase your budget.
If you don't mind *installing* Win8 rather than having it come pre-installed, there are plenty of older tablet PCs which will do the job, and while most of them initially retailed for far above your cutoff price, you can usually find them fairly cheap nowadays.
For example, here's an older Dell Latitude 10 tablet that uses an Oak Trail Atom CPU and runs Win7 by default, and is in your price range: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...arch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22&puid=2e477084
Bear in mind though: those specs are pretty bad by today's standards. It will run Win8, and it will run any desktop Linux distro I know of, but it won't run either one terribly well.
Thanks for your replies, really appreciate them!
Ok, I guess I'll just pass this generation of affordable Win8 tablets and get a laptop.
Once again, thanks for your help!
Ok, so basically what i am wondering is if the Dell venue [baytrail] tablets are able to upgrade their OS? I really want to purchase the Dell Venue 11 Pro but i am reluctant to because when reviewing it i discovered that it only comes with the 32-bit version of windows 8.1. I was surprised because i knew that the baytrail processor actually supports 64-bit operating systems. Its just that the current 64-bit windows 8.1 OS does not have working drivers that are compatible with the Dell venue pros :| . (How convenient for me).
Basically what i am hoping is to get an answer from a person who already owns one or knows a little bit more about it. Are the venue pros capable of having their operating system wiped and having anything installed on it? IE. Ubuntu, or some other linux distro? because if this is the case then that would mean once a driver comes out that supports baytrails processor for the 64-bit version that customers with already purchased tablets can easily re-install the 64-bit version.
Just to note, so far i talked to some people from dell but they said i could not upgrade the OS. So, now i am going to try my luck with the tech department. Im hoping they will know a lot more about this.
Also, the reason i am wanting this tablet is so that i can program on it as well as take notes for my classes. I am currently going for a computer engineering degree with the computer science route @ Texas A&M- College station.
If anything, if i get enough taxes back i will purchase the the i3 version or maybe the surface pro 2. Im not sure yet =_= but that is a discussion for another thread. (basically i would like to be able to run unity, or blender on the tablet, and i know those programs are to processor intensive to run on an atom processor)
Unity or blender, sounds like you would be better off skipping tablets and actually getting a laptop or bare minimum something like the aforementioned surface pro 2.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Unity or blender, sounds like you would be better off skipping tablets and actually getting a laptop or bare minimum something like the aforementioned surface pro 2.
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I have actually thought of using a team viewer app so that i can connect to my desktop when wanting to deal with unity....im just not sure if team viewer will support touch input :S . As for the tablet i just want it to be capable on its own. The baytrail can run full windows application so if team viewer does not support touch throughput then maybe something else will. I also want a tablet that can be self capable of course. So far from what i have read, the CPU seems to be superior to all ARM processors. But, unfortunately the graphics are terrible when compared to the latest arms. So that is why i am also wondering. Should i wait till the end of 2014 to buy a cherry trial tablet?
Cherry trail will be the next generation in the atom processors that will have a faster cpu and will have 4 times the graphics cores... so hopefully up to 4 times the graphics capabilities which will put it well ahead of all current arm processors. Even the upcoming Snapdragon 805 processor!
the main downfalls for me that are preventing me from getting a Dell Venue pro 11 are three things. First, that its on 32-bit windows, second it only has 2GB of ram, and third that the graphics on the tablet are terrible!
So all that aside.... should i wait for the cherry trail version of the Dell venue 11 pro? or wait for the 64-bit version of the baytrail venue pro with upgraded ram comes out... (if it comes out)
The SP3 has been announced. It is of similar weight as the Note PRO, same size, has stylus and touch screen, similar or better power consumption and run Windows. Is there any reason that I should keep the PRO 12.2 rather than trading it in for the SP3?
Have to admit that I'm tempted as well. The only thing is that many android apps aren't available for win8.1. Although you could run android in a virtual machine...
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---------- Post added at 08:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------
If CyanogenMod can add the SM-P900 to their build list, pretty sure I'd keep it...
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What kind of Android apps that do not have an equivalent or superior version under Windows or Mac OS? If that SP3 were running Mac OS, I would definitely trade in.
hajime_android said:
The SP3 has been announced. It is of similar weight as the Note PRO, same size, has stylus and touch screen, similar or better power consumption and run Windows. Is there any reason that I should keep the PRO 12.2 rather than trading it in for the SP3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sold mine. Not for a windows tablet though.
Just couldn't stand the lack of development for the tablet.
What's the price of the Surface Pro 3? I read somewhere that it's in the $1900 range . .
Edit: Guess thats the high end one, low end starts at $800.
Mine is on the way.. Damn. If the pen technology is the same, i will keep the note, as the surface pro will likely retail at around 750 gbp since its 800 dollars. The note pro was recently discounted thus bought it cheaper at 500 gbp. I hope the note taking is not better than the note
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Yeah the surface pro 3 is going to be a good laptop replacement. I'll stick with android though, I like my toys and want to tinker with things. When development gets going on this tablet things should be fun.
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Will it though?
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It's tempting, VERY tempting, untill you take a look at this:
Intel Core i3, 64 GB storage and 4 GB of RAM—$799
Intel Core i5, 128 GB storage and 4 GB of RAM—$999
Intel Core i5, 256 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,299
Intel Core i7, 256 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,549
Intel Core i7, 512 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,949
I'd want the one I could use as a real PC, and I'd want to be able to play my Games on it. And for 1949, I'll just buy my own gaming laptop(i7 3.2Ghz, 2TB, 16GBRAM, GT740M 4GB) again and take that with me. (Size and weight are of no importance to me, what's 1.5kg on an average 40kg backpack?). And still have enough money left to buy a TabPro for portable entertainment purposes.
12.2" is not enough for my work usage (As a graphic designer I require at least 22").
Also, it runs a Intel HD 4400 integrated GPU. No way in hell am I paying 2000 quid for that nightmarish piece of rubbish! Running Photoshop CS6 on an Intel HD, as if! Also, as a serious Gamer (Skyrim, Mass Effect), it's useless.
Once it starts having serious Nvidia GPU's, I'll consider it. For now I'm more than happy with my NotePro.
The key consideration in question is the 800 quid model
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Yeah i am probably getting it. I have the original Surface pro and needed a larger screen - i like it thinned down alittle and all the other refinements they did. If you are in the US looking for a good deal on the Note pro- PM me.
hajime_android said:
What kind of Android apps that do not have an equivalent or superior version under Windows or Mac OS? If that SP3 were running Mac OS, I would definitely trade in.
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Click to collapse
Android and iOS are great for consumption. Windows is great for productivity and business connectivity. Android fakes productivity better than Windows fakes consumption. Windows is Windows. With driver issues, desktop apps not designed for touch or an ultra HD display, and having to rely on a browser for a lot of things where apps aren't available. The SP3 changes none of that. My Note is a far better laptop supplement than the SP3 is a stand-alone tablet. My "laptop replacement" is still a laptop and Samsung's Pros and the SP3 haven't changed my thinking. What has changed is I can now leave my laptop and its bag full of paraphernalia at home 50% of the time because of the productivity and performance gains Samsung's introduced with the Pro's.
The second vignette in this commercial says it all...
P.S. - For those who handwriting is important, research N-trig. It's what MS is using in place of an active digitizer and Wacom which Samsung uses on the Notes. It's a pretty big compromise and I'll bet highly problematic on such a high-res display.
BarryH_GEG said:
Android and iOS are great for consumption. Windows is great for productivity and business connectivity. Android fakes productivity better than Windows fakes consumption. Windows is Windows. With driver issues, desktop apps not designed for touch or an ultra HD display, and having to rely on a browser for a lot of things where apps aren't available. The SP3 changes none of that. My Note is a far better laptop supplement than the SP3 is a stand-alone tablet. My "laptop replacement" is still a laptop and Samsung's Pros and the SP3 haven't changed my thinking. What has changed is I can now leave my laptop and its bag full of paraphernalia at home 50% of the time because of the productivity and performance gains Samsung's introduced with the Pro's.
The second vignette in this commercial says it all...
P.S. - For those who handwriting is important, research N-trig. It's what MS is using in place of an active digitizer and Wacom which Samsung uses on the Notes. It's a pretty big compromise and I'll bet highly problematic on such a high-res display.
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Click to collapse
Mines got the retina thingy lmao
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ryant100 said:
Mines got the retina thingy lmao
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Click to collapse
You have to give Samsung credit. In less than a minute they took out the iPad Air, Surface, Kindle, and iPad Mini.
BarryH_GEG said:
Android and iOS are great for consumption. Windows is great for productivity and business connectivity. Android fakes productivity better than Windows fakes consumption. Windows is Windows. With driver issues, desktop apps not designed for touch or an ultra HD display, and having to rely on a browser for a lot of things where apps aren't available. The SP3 changes none of that. My Note is a far better laptop supplement than the SP3 is a stand-alone tablet. My "laptop replacement" is still a laptop and Samsung's Pros and the SP3 haven't changed my thinking. What has changed is I can now leave my laptop and its bag full of paraphernalia at home 50% of the time because of the productivity and performance gains Samsung's introduced with the Pro's.
The second vignette in this commercial says it all...
P.S. - For those who handwriting is important, research N-trig. It's what MS is using in place of an active digitizer and Wacom which Samsung uses on the Notes. It's a pretty big compromise and I'll bet highly problematic on such a high-res display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah if the note taking is expected to be better in Note pro 12, then I am sticking to it. mine is on the way. but microsoft made a fuss about their pen technology being really good with surface pro 3..
nesx87 said:
Yeah if the note taking is expected to be better in Note pro 12, then I am sticking to it. mine is on the way. but microsoft made a fuss about their pen technology being really good with surface pro 3..
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Click to collapse
Good point. Though I'm still not convinced of the Windows 8.1 as a tablet interface. Android feels more comfortable for tablet use, and I can customize it quite a lot (Switchr + NotesMobile which I feel is the best note taking app, beats even OneNote though misses on the online sync).
So for extensive reading and writing(wacom!) Note Pro really is the best available. For more productive work I still can't forego windows, and that is on a laptop with a big screen (14+).
Maybe Windows 9 and Office 2015 can change my mind. But will wait and see.
ShadowLea said:
It's tempting, VERY tempting, untill you take a look at this:
Intel Core i3, 64 GB storage and 4 GB of RAM—$799
Intel Core i5, 128 GB storage and 4 GB of RAM—$999
Intel Core i5, 256 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,299
Intel Core i7, 256 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,549
Intel Core i7, 512 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,949
I'd want the one I could use as a real PC, and I'd want to be able to play my Games on it. And for 1949, I'll just buy my own gaming laptop(i7 3.2Ghz, 2TB, 16GBRAM, GT740M 4GB) again and take that with me. (Size and weight are of no importance to me, what's 1.5kg on an average 40kg backpack?). And still have enough money left to buy a TabPro for portable entertainment purposes.
12.2" is not enough for my work usage (As a graphic designer I require at least 22").
Also, it runs a Intel HD 4400 integrated GPU. No way in hell am I paying 2000 quid for that nightmarish piece of rubbish! Running Photoshop CS6 on an Intel HD, as if! Also, as a serious Gamer (Skyrim, Mass Effect), it's useless.
Once it starts having serious Nvidia GPU's, I'll consider it. For now I'm more than happy with my NotePro.
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Click to collapse
I don't think SP3 is designed for game lover. It is a replacement for laptop. So it is very tempting for the people who have Note Pro or is considering Note Pro.
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Alexsandra said:
I don't think SP3 is designed for game lover. It is a replacement for laptop. So it is very tempting for the people who have Note Pro or is considering Note Pro.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using XDA Free mobile app
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Click to collapse
If it has to replace my laptop, it has to be game-capable. Particularly if it's 500 quid more expensive than my laptop.... (Yes, my laptop was 1300 euro.)
Because my laptop is used 70% of the time for gaming. (and the other 30% for Photoshop)
They can't give it a general tagline and after the fact say "Oh, but we didn't mean that..".
The thing is though that the need for portability and the power requirements of high performance gaming graphics chipsets compete against each other. Desktops always trump laptops in gaming and because the tablet form factor is expected to be smaller than laptops they will always be trumped by laptops.
As for development on this tablet hopefully it will come; in the meantime modifications using Xposed fill the void quite well.
Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
ShadowLea said:
It's tempting, VERY tempting, untill you take a look at this:
Intel Core i7, 512 GB storage and 8 GB of RAM—$1,949
Also, it runs a Intel HD 4400 integrated GPU. No way in hell am I paying 2000 quid for that nightmarish piece of rubbish! Running Photoshop CS6 on an Intel HD, as if! Also, as a serious Gamer (Skyrim, Mass Effect), it's useless.
Once it starts having serious Nvidia GPU's, I'll consider it. For now I'm more than happy with my NotePro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 grand for the one I would want, and stupid on board intel HD graphics? Going to have to pass on that. Zeesh.
Hi Everyone,
I wish to start learning android development in android studio but I have a major concern about the hardware requirements. I have two machines at hand, First one is a very old desktop with an athlon 64 2800+ single core with just 2.5GB ram and Windows xp sp3 which i know would be a big no. Second one is a new HP laptop with 5th gen core i3 and 4GB ram on windows 10. I wish to know, if the laptop will be able to run it with reasonable performance or if I should certainly look at upgrading the desktop. The problem is that I can't afford the latest hardware for desktop so I will be looking at some used hardware online. I am getting some affordable deals on a used AMD phenom II X2 555 and an AMD Phenom 9550 quad core, both coupled with decent motherboards. So basically its between the laptop and those phenom processors. Which way will it be better?
vikrant1982 said:
Hi Everyone,
I wish to start learning android development in android studio but I have a major concern about the hardware requirements. I have two machines at hand, First one is a very old desktop with an athlon 64 2800+ single core with just 2.5GB ram and Windows xp sp3 which i know would be a big no. Second one is a new HP laptop with 5th gen core i3 and 4GB ram on windows 10. I wish to know, if the laptop will be able to run it with reasonable performance or if I should certainly look at upgrading the desktop. The problem is that I can't afford the latest hardware for desktop so I will be looking at some used hardware online. I am getting some affordable deals on a used AMD phenom II X2 555 and an AMD Phenom 9550 quad core, both coupled with decent motherboards. So basically its between the laptop and those phenom processors. Which way will it be better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the laptop will run it. I've tried making app on a very old pc with barely 1 or 2 gb ram and successfully completed till the basic "hello world" app. Runs very slow though. But i think your laptop is good enough for app building
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------
simranjitsingh said:
I think the laptop will run it. I've tried making app on a very old pc with barely 1 or 2 gb ram and successfully completed till the basic "hello world" app. Although runs very slow. It all depends on the ram. But i think your laptop is good enough for app building
Besides you should have a look at this excellent free pdf guide for beginners. Easy and noob friendly,Helped me a lot
http://www.ebooksfeed.com/16/head-first-android-development-free-pdf/
Happy app building[emoji4]
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
simranjitsingh said:
I think the laptop will run it. I've tried making app on a very old pc with barely 1 or 2 gb ram and successfully completed till the basic "hello world" app. Runs very slow though. But i think your laptop is good enough for app building
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot Simranjit, really appreciate your inputs.
I'd say your notebook shoud run Android Studio quite ok. Don't expect great performance though. Especially if you plan on using original Emulators, they are eating RAM like dogs.
I'm running AS on my 8 years old computer with Core2 Duo E6400 and 4Gb of RAM. Works ok, but not ligthing fast.
I've recently added an SSD to the configuration. Boy, that did speed things up! So, consider getting SSD if you will buy a new system. Or installing it to your notebook will also definitely boot overall system performance and loading times.
In Linux, (SWAP)
In Windows, (Paging File)
This can be considered equal to RAM and can actually be used as a substitute.
It is possible with a big enough SWAP or Paging file to use really old HW, your build-times will suffer but it's feasible if it has to be done.
I wish to start learning android development in android studio but I have a major concern about the hardware requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me give you the respect of a truly proper reply. Since you're actually buying stuff....
1 ) Hardware
CPU: Intel Pentium G4400 - 60$
GPU: Integrated HD510
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-H110M-S2H - 60$
SSD: Intel SSD 600P - 70$
PSU: Standard 30$
Case: 15-30$ standard case
DDR4-2133: $40~ for 2x4GB sticks
Dual-memory is important here; the PCIE SSD will have a write speed fast enough to compensate for the dual-core CPU.
This is also a semi-future proof model too, since adding an i3-6100 at a future time will yield a huge improvement as it has 4 threads; the next biggest upgrade is an i7 which has 8 threads the i5 is insignificant in this.
This build will actually allow you to produce AOSP and things like this in under 1 hour.
IF YOU USE AN OVERCLOCK MOTHER BOARD:
G4400 can be brought to like 4.5 GHz which is insanely fast but you need a fan, i3 won't do anything for you as the non-K overclock kills hyper-threading; reducing it to being the same as a G4400.
i5 is the same as an i7 here for the same reason; no hyper-threading.
So if you could spring for an i5 you may as well go for an overclocking build.
I mean doing it either way would yield good results, but it is just a little more expensive in the MOBO area.
InterfaceNode said:
Let me give you the respect of a truly proper reply. Since you're actually buying stuff....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is some great info. Also, I have one more doubt, the reason why I looked at those used AMD chips is that I have read a couple of times people mentioning that the AMD chips handle android studio better due to better multi threaded performance than intel. If that really is the case then I can stretch a tiny bit more and get an FX-4300 since there isn't a lot of difference here between the G4400 and an FX-4300 but, thats only if i absolutely decide to build a new PC. Right now I am having a hard time considering an entirely new machine. Actually I had to leave my job two months back after a 10 years service. I saved up money all those years so decided to take a plunge and learn android and find a new job. Though I have healthy reserves today, I am not sure how long will it take for me to learn, be productive and find a new job.
Also, I want to add that those prices are inflated here in my country. For reference, that G4400 is around 80$ due to import duties and thats an online price on Amazon. On local stores it can be even more.
vikrant1982 said:
That is some great info. Also, I have one more doubt, the reason why I looked at those used AMD chips is that I have read a couple of times people mentioning that the AMD chips handle android studio better due to better multi threaded performance than intel. If that really is the case then I can stretch a tiny bit more and get an FX-4300 since there isn't a lot of difference here between the G4400 and an FX-4300 but, thats only if i absolutely decide to build a new PC. Right now I am having a hard time considering an entirely new machine. Actually I had to leave my job two months back after a 10 years service. I saved up money all those years so decided to take a plunge and learn android and find a new job. Though I have healthy reserves today, I am not sure how long will it take for me to learn, be productive and find a new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learning Android is worth it; and it will enhance your knowledge of Linux in general and yes you will make money eventually.
Also, I have one more doubt, the reason why I looked at those used AMD chips is that I have read a couple of times people mentioning that the AMD chips handle android studio better due to better multi threaded performance than intel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very correct, but... well.
There is really no situation where an FX CPU will beat an Intel CPU.
I'm saying it because I love you and don't want to see you make a huge mistake.
Do not mess with future-proofing ok?
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-FX-9590-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K/1812vs1487
These CPUs are roughly the same price (refurbished or used i7-3930k is fine, nobody uses them hard compared to us.)
But the 3930k has 4 more threads; it is significantly stronger in single-core power as well so naturally the workstation score will be higher; and will build an entire OS in under 35 minutes no matter what.
When paired with strong Read/Write HW such as a PCIe SSD which should be considered REQUIRED if you value your time (you should, time is money here in regard to testing) you will be able to whack a build in under 15 minutes with this kind of HW probably.
Lesser builds such as Apps will probably take a minute or less.
You can obtain a 3930k for under 200$ no problem.
You will never be able to find a FX CPU that is worth it over an intel CPU.
FX CPU require tremendous cooling power to use! They pull a ton of energy too!
You can even run Android Studio on ARM CPUs if you're really struggling cash-wise and I can make suggestions here too.
Let me accommodate you ok?
I feel you work too hard for your money to burn it on a bad choice, tell me exactly how much you're looking to spend and I will give you an EXACT list of HW that will be unbeatable.
Dude, if you need help I can absolutely direct you to someone in China who can obtain these units are an incredibly reasonable price because these things are all made in China.
They are drowning in these parts.
I can find you a 3930k for uh, around 130$?
Look, it is a very effective CPU.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K/3502vs1487
This is what I suggest you use, seriously.
InterfaceNode said:
Dude, if you need help I can absolutely direct you to someone in China who can obtain these units are an incredibly reasonable price because these things are all made in China.
They are drowning in these parts.
I can find you a 3930k for uh, around 130$?
Look, it is a very effective CPU.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K/3502vs1487
This is what I suggest you use, seriously.
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Click to collapse
Great, let me just work it out and see how much I can pull it up to and then I can just get back to you. Again, thanks a lot for you time and help.
vikrant1982 said:
Great, let me just work it out and see how much I can pull it up to and then I can just get back to you. Again, thanks a lot for you time and help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it takes you 2 hours to build, you can only test a thing 5 times a day roughly.
Because it will take a LOT of time to trouble-shoot a project, you won't be able to build back to back as soon as the next build is finished :x
Trust me, if you strengthen your HW you will advance very fast it matters a LOT.
Even to rent a Cloud VM would be acceptable, Google offers the service man