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I have some questions and need suggestions

1. Are the only Windows 8 tablets without a fan equipped with Intel Atom Z2760 CPU?
2. What would you suggest when I would want a Windows 8 tablet without a fan?
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

Given that x86-capable processors run pretty hot, you're not going to find a lot of options. Some of the Atom chips may get by on passive cooling... maybe. Frankly, if you want a fan-less tablet, that usually means ARM, and that means Windows RT.
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...

1. All Atom tablets are fanless as far as I know. My Samsung 500T barely even got warm and I think that was more the LCD than the processor. I don't believe there are any other x86 processors that are fanless right now.
2. Obvious an Atom tablet. You'll probably need to narrow it down a bit on what you are looking for. Is the tablet form factor more important or the laptop form factor. If using it as a tablet is more important, you'll probably want a lighter and smaller 10.1 inch tablet like the upcoming ASUS Vivotab Smart. If you want a laptop form factor with keyboard for typing, then a 11.6 inch tablet is idea for the larger keyboard size. Also do you need a pen built in, do you need a Wacom digitizer?
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
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It's not that thin at all. Windows RT tablets will never be able to run x86 desktop applications with it's ARM processor. That hack just lets you run unsigned Windows RT ARM applications.
---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------
PS. Maybe AMD's Temash APU might be fanless. Not entirely sure yet. It's shipping Q2 this year, but don't know when we'll see any tablets with it inside.

@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.

GoodDayToDie said:
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
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An alpha tool made 4 days ago that can run notepad.exe and a 14 year old 2D game on an ARM processor. How could I have missed that?
Can you even install Photoshop, much less run it with this alpha tool yet? You can barely run Photoshop on an Atom, I think running it on an ARM through emulation will be more than painful.
I think it's a bit premature to be touting this as a solution to running x86 apps on an ARM tablet.

I view it quite differently: in any four days, an alpha tools has been written that can run simple apps, even old games, without recompiling them... and has already dramatically improved in performance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're going to be completely be able to replace an x86 machine with an ARM one... but the reason for that is simply a matter of performance of the underlying hardware. For low-demand stuff (the kind of thing you might run on a fanless tablet anyhow) it's not an unreasonable goal. Of course it's not there yet... but a week ago, it wasn't possible at all.

Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?

Wrong post.

kaspar737 said:
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
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My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.

Ravynmagi said:
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
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Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

kaspar737 said:
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
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Windows RT apps run on Windows 8 too and Windows 8 will be shipped on millions and millions of computers around the world. So I think the Windows Store apps (aka Metro style) that run on RT and 8 will eventually show up in good numbers from developers. So if you do go with Windows RT, the apps will come, even if people abandon the OS and hardware platform.
Windows 8 has the best of both worlds though, you can run the RT apps and the x86 apps. And the Atom is the best of both worlds, the efficiency of an ARM processor with the ability to run x86 apps.

Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.

GoodDayToDie said:
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."

Ravynmagi said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
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You could just link to the article
And, yes, the Atom Z2760 is more power efficient.
As far as tablets go, though, all the Atom tablets I've looked at have felt like cheap toys, whereas the Surface is possibly the best built device I've ever used. That's the main reason I chose the Surface RT, it just blows all the competition away in build quality.
As far as applications go, neither the Atom nor the Tegra are very well suited for intensive tasks like Photoshop and the like. They're both going to perform quite poorly at those tasks.
The Atom does have the existing software library, though in reality a large number of what people will need/want to use has already been ported over to Arm.
An interesting thing to note is that even though the Atom is more efficient than the Tegra the Surface still had better battery life compared to the W510 by almost an hour.
Build Quality: Surface beats W510 hands down. Acer has okay build quality, but the Surface is superb.
Performance: The Atom nudges out the Tegra
Applications: Any applications that need x86 won't be usable on the Atom, but they will run, so the Atom wins. The Tegra is rapidly catching up, though.
Battery Life: The Surface beat the W510 by nearly an hour, therefore I'm calling it in favor of the Surface. The Atom itself is more efficient, but that doesn't mean that the tablets built using the Atom are.

I stand corrected. Atom, even an older Atom, is surprisingly competitive with ARM on a power efficiency standpoint. I don't know that I agree with handing it the win outright, it won some of the "total usage" charts but lost some of the others, occasionally substantially. It's certainly a viable option for a mobile device though. Interesting... time was, Intel had difficulty squeezing their chips down to 5W, while ARM was expected to run at around 300mW. Apparently I need to keep a better eye on these things.

Sneak peek of Win8 tablets for Fall 2013

Below is the Acer W3 tablet that had an Amazon listing for USD$380 before it was pulled. Acer Finland now has posted the specs & pics: 8.1" display (reportedly 1280x800), Clover Trail Z2760, 2GB RAM, 64GB flash, micro-USB/SD/HDMI, 8hr (3.5Ah) battery.
http://www.acer.fi/ac/fi/FI/content/model/NT.L1JED.002
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This isn't a "real" launch, but a dry run for the Bay Trail models in Q4. The first giveaway is the $380 price (sans dock), which is even more than the iPad Mini, and is a guaranteed retail DOA. The second is that it doesn't have 8.1 update, and its 1280 res has this footnote at the bottom of the page: "The integrated display resolution of this system is below the threshold for snapping apps...This feature may be enabled by attaching an external display which supports a screen resolution of 1366 x 768 or higher."
Still we can glean some features from this as indicators of the upcoming Win8.1 "small tablet" crop. This particular tab has 16:10 aspect, which is a departure from the default 16:9 on all Win tabs (and most laptops/monitors) to date. IMO it's a big improvement, as it allows the devices to be more functional in portrait, and less awkward to hold in one hand.
Speaking of portrait, note that this tab is designed to be used in portrait mode by placement of the front cam and the Windows button. Another positive step.
Power efficiency looks good. The 3.5Ah batt is smaller than the typical 7" Android's 4Ah, and Mini's 4.49Ah, yet can still claim to 8hr usage. Hopefully Bay Trail can maintain this efficiency while boosting performance.
Office Home & Student 2013 is bundled. This corroborates an earlier rumor of lowered licensing cost for the Win+Office bundle for x86. The flip side is that this kills RT's main sales pitch. I don't expect any new RT product for this gen, except perhaps a refresh for Surface RT.
As with RT, I'm doubtful of the appeal of Office on mobile devices, since this version is still mainly for desktop and not touch. Functionality will be substantially reduced on a 8" display, and pretty useless w/o an external keyboard (as how most of these 8" tabs will be sold). Given MS' emphasis on services, I'm also surprised that it didn't instead bundle Office 365 with, say, 2-yr free sub. That would give O365 adoption a big jump-start.
Which brings us to the oversized dock. Its size means that "productivity" is limited to home use, as you won't be carrying this around with you. This highlights the perplexity of Windows-on-tablet: As of now, Windows is still very much a desktop, keyboard/mouse-driven OS, the nascent Metro makeover notwithstanding. The "desktop" is why people buy x86 over RT, but it was never designed for small mobile devices, and is an awkward fit at best.
Last, comes price. From this and Asus CEO's comments, my SWAG is low-300-ish for these 8" x86 tabs, and the dock will be $75-100 extra. I don't think they'll fare well against the $200-and-under Androids, many of which will be from the same vendors who make Win tabs. In other words, 3rd-party marketing support will be wanting.

I am really excited about this, and i think certain OEMs will prefer the windows echosystem in tablets over android as they already know it and have a very respected position and value unlike android (Acer, Lenovo, Dell, HP, MSI . . ) Win8 is there chance to enter the Mobile market, may be ASUS is the only vendor that can compete in the Android ecosystem but not for so long i think
- I think Acer will re-adjust the price and even at 380$ i think its a better value than the iPad or the Note 8 because you get much more flexibility, in this form factor you can think of the desktop mode as a complement to metro, whatever is lacking in metro you can use desktop mode for it but metro will be where you spend most of your time (web, video, chat . . .)
- The snap mode issue i think will be fixed with 8.1, right now i believe there is a hack to enable it
- This is definitely better than RT in every way, I think RT main purpose is to keep the possibilities on the ARM architecture open in the future and i think that Microsoft should really be merging windows phone and windows RT together in the coming years
- A sub 200 android tablet will be no where near the performance or the flexibility of a x86 tablet even RT tablets Have better SOCs already and will be priced very closely
I really think if Microsoft can pull the right price model + some UI tweaks in desktop they will own the tablet space in less than 2 years

Yes, $380 is early adopter pricing. Asus CEO has said 8" Bay Trail will be around $300, although the more conservative would peg it at low-$300. Either way, price will be bumped to ~$400 w/ keyboard dock, which is needed for "full" Windows rather than just Metro.
This and other Taiwan models should show up at Computex on June 4. We should also see the new 8" Surface at Build on June 26. I think Acer's oversized-keyboard solution is awkward and not portable, and am looking forward to see what Asus/Lenovo and MS have to offer. Some sort of fold-out keyboard cover would be a better option, although it still isn't as optimal as the clamshell form factor.
IMO the best solution is for MS to adjust the desktop UI to better accomodate touch, similar to what was done for Office 2013 UI. Per 8.1, that won't happen (although display scaling should be fixed). Hence the UX for naked tabs will be limited to Metro, which at this point is still primitive and nascent. I see this as another transition rev, and am already looking to Win9 for more substantive improvements.
With the Surface 8", we'll also get guidance on whether the Surface line is a serious foray, or as "reference" models for vendors to follow. Ballmer has said Surface is a "real business," so I'd expect aggressive pricing & wide distribution to compete with iPads, as opposed to the present overpriced RT & Pro models that doomed them to irrelevance. The flip side is that a lowballed Surface will further antagonize OEMs, and cooperation will worsen. Exacerbating factors include the continuing commoditization of tablets, where even iPads are under pressure from Android. MS & Co will have to play ball with near-zero margin hardware, which means a big thumbs-up for consumers.
On the positive news (for MS), the long tail of Win7 along with MS' other rev streams will afford it a few more profitable quarters, regardless of the reception to the 8.1 crop. MS will get at least one more mulligan before the gravy train pops a gasket.

That's the beauty of windows 8, Vendors focus on the hardware and different form factors while Microsoft is focusing on the software, But then again the early adoption is very important in the mobile market, Imagine Microsoft started with WP7.5 instead of WP7 i know it would have been very different now, I hope they don't do the same mistake with windows 8
I really like the way Acer is going, New ideas and brilliant hardware (A full sized, non touch keyboard is a must for productivity)

>A full sized, non touch keyboard is a must for productivity
That's the crux, isn't it? Productivity on a smaller form factor.
The elephant in the room is that the keyboard as presently constituted can't be downsized, and it has defeated every attempt to shrink productive mobile computing beyond 10" size. The QWERTY/AZERTY layout (and sizing) has been with us since time immemorial, and there's been no real attempt to innovate it directly because of the high learning curve involved. Instead, present efforts at progress all work around it, eg touch screen, voice rec, gestures, etc. But none has the granularity, simplicity, and versatility of a tactile keyboard. That's why productivity is predicated upon it.
The present mobile computing paradigm has yet to come up with a solution to reconcile productivity with mobile. MS in its chase toward mobile has no real answers, either. Its attempt to push hybrids (read: mobile w/ keyboard) has gotten no traction. Neither have its Surface devices, based on a "flattened" keyboard that doubles as cover. The success or failure of Metro is actually irrelevant, because even if Metro succeeds as a touch UI, it still can't solve the productivity conundrum to make "desktop mode" disappear. And if Metro can't become a superset of "desktop," then we'll be stuck with a franken-OS for quite a while longer.
Somebody (probably not MS) need to innovate the keyboard.

The QWERTY/AZERTY layout (and sizing) has been with us since time immemorial, and there's been no real attempt to innovate it directly because of the high learning curve involved. Instead, present efforts at progress all work around it, eg touch screen, voice rec, gestures, etc. But none has the granularity, simplicity, and versatility of a tactile keyboard. That's why productivity is predicated upon it
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I agree with you on the innovation side, I think that if there is enough demand for it you will find all kinds of ideas coming along but sadly demand has to come first
The success or failure of Metro is actually irrelevant, because even if Metro succeeds as a touch UI, it still can't solve the productivity conundrum to make "desktop mode" disappear. And if Metro can't become a superset of "desktop," then we'll be stuck with a franken-OS for quite a while longer
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Metro isn't the start screen or the apps that runs in it, it is the design philosophy that focuses on content (fonts, icons, typography . . .), apply that to desktop and you get a metro desktop, hopefully microsoft is focusing on that
Desktop is what differentiate windows from any mobile os, it shouldn't be killed (taking away decades of apps) but should be more metro and more touch friendly with full multi touch/gesture/pen/voice support if microsoft can do that then i don't see any reason for going to any other mobile os
I have a samsung ativ smart and i use it almost 99% of the time instead of my pc, that couldn't have been possible without win 8 and i hope it keeps getting better

AMD Temash is looking very good in terms of power consumption...
The A4-1200 tops at 3.9W TDP... in other words, iPad form factor territory :good:

go0gle said:
AMD Temash is looking very good in terms of power consumption...
The A4-1200 tops at 3.9W TDP... in other words, iPad form factor territory :good:
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GPU wise its way better than clover trail but in RAW CPU power its lacking, Bay trail is not far off so we have to wait and see

Acer is really is really innovating this year

DynamicRam said:
GPU wise its way better than clover trail but in RAW CPU power its lacking, Bay trail is not far off so we have to wait and see
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Even the quad core version ? That is a bit disappointing considering that clover trail is really old..
I think the AMDs also support more/faster RAM than clover trail.. the quad core paired with 6gb RAM should be fine.
Silvermont is at least 6 month away as far as I know.

The quad core will definitely be better but i don't think it will match the clover trail 10+ hours of battery life
Remember that clover trail has a TDP around 1.7

And a clock speed of 1.8ghz whereas the amd chips are 1.0 or 1.4. However 1 clock signal does not result in 1 processor cycle and different cpu instructions take a differing number of cycles to complete so who knows how they really compare (as I doubt the clocks>cycles>instructions relationship is the same for clovertrail and amd, hell, clovertrail and bay trail aren't even the same in that regard).

Re: AMD - Specs notwithstanding, it'll be tough for AMD to get design wins. Intel has always been ahead on power efficiency, and it's now closing the gap between Atom and Core where AMD is trying to target. Bay Trail is getting more (50%+) perf, and Haswell more battery life. Intel is also dropping price to compete against ARM, with $300'ish ASP for Bay Trail vs $500 for Clover.
The larger question is how well x86 tabs can sell, since Win8x still requires keyboard/mouse, and a keyboard dock will add to the price and bulk. The lower overall pricing should help, but the competition isn't standing still. There'll be iOS7 iPads, and Walmart is selling $99 7" Androids now.
I'm not a fan of the Acer W3 setup, ie with oversized keyboard dock. Aside from being fugly, it defeats the purpose of having a smaller tablet, and you might as well buy a 10". Credit to Acer for trying new things, but all of its weird designs have never caught on with the public. Anyway, this issue has already been solved a couple of decades ago, with the foldable PDA keyboard.
After the keyboard, you need a *precise* pointer (read: not your finger). The FlipStart UMPC below had both a track pointer and a mini-trackpad. These aren't as functional as a mouse, but they should suffice along with touch screen input.
Next up, what makes a Win device useful, aside from keyboard/mouse, are its USB ports and it-just-works USB connectivity. The Acer W3 and most mini-tabs will likely have only a single micro-USB port, which isn't enough. I'd like to see a battery-powered USB 3.0 hub w/ 3-4 ports.
Lastly, I want to see Microsoft take the lead in standardizing connector/form factor specs for these separate accessories so 3rd-party products can interoperate. This will help build a thriving ecosystem and drive down prices for accessories. But realistically, I expect MS to continue its Apple-wannabe ways with its own proprietary toys and ludicrous prices. It's why I'm looking beyond MS for my next transition. The world doesn't need another Apple.
BTW, looks like the first shoe on "software as services" has dropped on XB1, and we can kiss selling used games goodbye. MS: 1, gamer: 0.

I doubt we will see standardisation.
Hell, Asus skipped a beat in my opinion for not reusing the transformer docking connector (width of keyboard wouldn't have lined up but it would have maintained compatibility with their standalone dock, ethernet and usb adaptors).
I think the keyboards and trackpads for convertibles are currently HID devices on an i2c bus though, so if not compatible with the physical connector they may at least be electrically compatible if provided the correct adaptor cable. With i2c several devices can even daisy chain although a keyboard, mouse and accelerometer might already be occupying a fair portion of bandwidth, doubt you could double up on that.

No need to jerryrig connectors. Theoretically you can hang all your periphs off the micro-USB port w/ powered hub. It'll look a bit ghetto with the cables vs a snap-in dock, but you don't have to buy a separate (proprietary) dock for each toy. That, or go the BT route, but this last excludes high-bandwidth uses like with a HDD.
Bifold keyboards have sadly gone the way of the PDA, and battery-powered hubs are rare. Tabs are still new, and use cases are still limited to mostly streaming online stuff. Plugging periphs to a tab is still a geek's game. Maybe Win tabs can add new uses to the mix with a "productivity" OS onboard. Here's to hoping that bifold KBs make a comeback, along with them yummy red Thinkpad nipples.
The new Surface 8 (probably a Bay Trail) should come out at Build. I'm hoping MS can at least do a portable, self-powered dock and not just a shrunken keyboard cover. But my optimism for MS is at low ebb, so am expecting exactly the latter.

e.mote said:
The new Surface 8 (probably a Bay Trail) should come out at Build. I'm hoping MS can at least do a portable, self-powered dock and not just a shrunken keyboard cover. But my optimism for MS is at low ebb, so am expecting exactly the latter.
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You mean announced at Build.. I thought Silvermont is not shipping until q4/2013 - q1/2015
DynamicRam said:
The quad core will definitely be better but i don't think it will match the clover trail 10+ hours of battery life
Remember that clover trail has a TDP around 1.7
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1.7 .. wow, I did not know that. It explains the amazing battery life those machines get. I wonder if Intel would manage to keep that TDP with BayTrail... it might be hard to do considering the bump in performance.

From Anandtech
Form factors should be no thicker than Clovertrail based designs, although it will be possible to go thinner with Baytrail/Silvermont should an OEM decide to.
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In terms of absolute performance, Silvermont’s peak single threaded performance is 2x that of Saltwell. This 2x gain includes IPC and clock frequency gains (only 50% is from IPC, the rest is due to IDI, system agent and frequency). Given that Saltwell is competitive with existing architectures from ARM and Qualcomm (except for the Cortex A15), a 2x increase in single threaded performance should put Silvermont in a leadership position when it arrives later this year.
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The next set of bars is just as important. At the same power levels (Intel didn’t disclose specifically at what power), Silvermont delivers 2x the performance of Saltwell. Finally, at the same performance level, Silvermont uses 4.7x lower power. Given that Saltwell wasn’t terrible on power to begin with, this is very impressive. Without knowing the specific power and performance levels however, I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions based on this data though.
The multithreaded advantages are obviously even greater as Silvermont will be featured in quad-core configurations while Saltwell topped out at dual-core (4 threads) in tablets.
In the next two slides, Intel did some competitive analysis with Silvermont vs. the ARM based competition. The benchmarks are the same, but now we have specifics about power usage. In the first test Intel is comparing to three competitors all with quad-core designs. Intel claims to have estimated performance gains based on what is expected to be in the market by the end of this year. Intel’s performance modeling group is very good at what it does, but as with any estimate you always have to exercise some caution in buying the data until we have physical hardware in hand.
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The final performance comparison slide increases max core power to 1.5W and compares quad-core Silvermont to the quad-core competition. You’ll note the arrival of a new competitor here. One of the bars is a dual-core SoC with its performance scaled to four cores. I’m less confident about that particular estimation simply because it assumes Apple won’t significantly update architectures in its next generation of iPads.
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That’s the end of the Intel data, but I have some thoughts to add. First of all, based on what I’ve seen and heard from third parties working on Baytrail designs - the performance claims of being 2x the speed of Clovertrail are valid. Compared to the two Cortex A15 designs I’ve tested (Exynos 5250, dual-core A15 @ 1.7GHz and Exynos 5410 quad-core A15 @ 1.6GHz), quad-core Silvermont also comes out way ahead. Intel’s claims of a 60% performance advantage, at minimum, compared to the quad-core competition seems spot on based on the numbers I’ve seen. Power is the only area that I can’t validate based on what I’ve seen already (no one has given me a Baytrail tablet to measure power on). Given what we know about Silvermont’s architecture and the gains offered by Intel’s 22nm process, I do expect this core to do better on power than what we’ve seen thus far from ARM’s Cortex A15.
There is something we aren’t taking into account though. As of now, the only Cortex A15 based SoCs that we’ve seen have been very leaky designs optimized for high frequency. Should an SoC vendor choose to optimize for power consumption instead, we could see a narrower gap between the power consumption of Cortex A15 and Silvermont. Obviously you give up performance when you do that, so it may not ultimately change anything - but the power story might be less of a blowout.
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The Haswell Review: Intel Core i7-4770K & i5-4560K Tested
Intel Iris Pro 5200 Graphics Review: Core i7-4950HQ Tested
Intel launches Haswell processors: here's what you need to know

Below is Engadget's hands-on of the Acer W3 at Computex. Official pricing will apparently be 329 for 32GB (same as iPad Mini) and 379 for 64GB, in both USD and Euro. Keyboard dock is said to be €69, which should also be same in dollars.
The keyboard dock is battery-powered (2xAAs), and has no physical connector with the tab, so apparently it's a BT keyboard. The dock slot looks to accommodate only a single fixed angle. Also, no trackpad or trackpoint.
I'd be very surprised if Acer actually put this model on retail sale.

379$ including Office is not bad at all & you can attach any keyboard/mouse, I hope that they ship with a better display though
---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------
ASUS launches VivoMouse, a wireless optical mouse with a multi-touch trackpad

Tablet PC that can run Ubuntu/Linux AND FULL Windows 8

I'm searching for a tablet that comes with a full windows 8 but that is also supported by the linux kernel so I could install Ubuntu on it.
I thought that an atom Z2760 based tablet was the way to go, but I've discovered that that processor is not nor will be supported by the linux kernel, so that was a no go.
Atom Z2760 based tablets were relatively not so expensive, so I'm looking for a tablet that costs under 500 euros/550$ and the screen size to be 8" or above (10" would be perfect)
Do you have any suggestions for me?
Thanks in advance!

As you point out, the atom tablets cannot run linux. That leaves you with intel core i3/i5/i7. I dont know of any within your budget.
Only things I can think of are either
A) wait quite a while. The bay trail CPU's are back to what you expect and are normal x86 processors capable of running windows 8 and linux if you wish. However I dont think they are due until 2014.
B) Virtualbox on an atom tablet. No one wants to do that really.
C) Increase your budget.

If you don't mind *installing* Win8 rather than having it come pre-installed, there are plenty of older tablet PCs which will do the job, and while most of them initially retailed for far above your cutoff price, you can usually find them fairly cheap nowadays.
For example, here's an older Dell Latitude 10 tablet that uses an Oak Trail Atom CPU and runs Win7 by default, and is in your price range: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...arch.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22&puid=2e477084
Bear in mind though: those specs are pretty bad by today's standards. It will run Win8, and it will run any desktop Linux distro I know of, but it won't run either one terribly well.

Thanks for your replies, really appreciate them!
Ok, I guess I'll just pass this generation of affordable Win8 tablets and get a laptop.
Once again, thanks for your help!

Intel Mobile Celeron N2910 v Intel Atom Atom Z3740

Hiya,
Im looking at getting a new tablet after getting a little annoyed with my asus t100.
The asus has the bay trail-T Atom Z3740 (t100) the other has a n9210 which is bay trail-M.
Is the bay trail-m more powerfull as i do not believe it has turbo boost. im looking at playing fm14 on the lowest settings so it does not need to be to powerfull as the Atom Z3740 could play it.
The new intel range is confusing me, is it Atom-Celeron-Pentium-Core-Xenon
Rich

Pentium and celeron are legacy products. Bay trail is encroaching on celeron anyway.
Xeon is not a consumer product line. Its for servers.
The current consumer product line is simply
Atom > Core i3 > Core i5 > Core i7. And even then, most consumers wont benefit from the i7.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Pentium and celeron are legacy products. Bay trail is encroaching on celeron anyway.
Xeon is not a consumer product line. Its for servers.
The current consumer product line is simply
Atom > Core i3 > Core i5 > Core i7. And even then, most consumers wont benefit from the i7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahhh right the tablet im looking at is this
http://www8.hp.com/uk/en/products/laptops/product-detail.html?oid=6420758#!tab=specs
which says it has a celeron which is a bay trail-m product

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Pentium and celeron are legacy products. Bay trail is encroaching on celeron anyway.
Xeon is not a consumer product line. Its for servers.
The current consumer product line is simply
Atom > Core i3 > Core i5 > Core i7. And even then, most consumers wont benefit from the i7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pentium and Celeron are upgraded every time the i3/5/7 family gets upgraded, so I wouldn't call them legacy.
They are more like lower end versions of the above.
I would say Celeron is somewhere in between an i3 and an atom.
With that said, i doubt the performance is noticeable.

Cool that's what I was looking for thought it would be a middle kinda ground between atom and i3
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app

Both are Bay Trail, but are targeted at different platforms. The T100's Z3740 is designed for tablets,
http://ark.intel.com/products/76759
while the Celeron N2910 is for entry notebooks,
http://ark.intel.com/products/76752
with higher SDP (4.5W vs 2W), higher clock (1.6GHz vs 1.3GHz), and can run 64-bit Win (all Bay Trail tablets are 32-bit only, until next year).
Even without Turbo, the N2910 is faster since it runs at 20% higher clock. That would be a noticeable difference. But still, we're talking about an Atom here. The downside is higher power use, hence the 2nd batt in the base of your model.
BTW, the US version of your mentioned hybrid is a bit better with a Pentium N3510, which is also a Bay Trail M, but has a base clock of 2GHz.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Laptops/HP-Pavilion/E4V88AV
http://ark.intel.com/products/76751
BTW, note that these come with Windows 8, not 8.1.

Thanks for that will have a look at the one you have said.
I know it has 8 but won't it get the free 8.1 update?
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app

Just because you can upgrade to 8.1, doesn't mean you should. HP hasn't certify 8.1 for this model, and Bay Trail already has enough bleeding edge problems with driver support.
More issues: wifi is bgn, ie 2.4GHz only; Miracast won't be possible. 11.6" screen is only 1366x768. Unit is heavy at 3.3lbs (1.71lbs sans base). Battery life is probably poor. No freebie Office like for the smaller 10" devices. On the plus side, you do get 4GB RAM rather than 2GB.
At $600 US, it's expensive. The main reason is Intel's chip pricing. Cel N2910's pricing is $132 retail (HP would've paid less), Z3740 is reportedly $30. The large difference isn't because of performance, but platform positioning. It's likely why Bay Trail T is 32-bit only, because Intel doesn't want it to cannibalize sales of higher-margin parts. It was the same with the netbook.
Even at $30, Bay Trail isn't competitive with ARM SoCs. Intel reportedly will lower Bay Trail parts to $15-20 in 2014.
http://tablet-news.com/2013/10/15/intel-preparing-cheap-bay-trail-chips-for-2014/
To date, there hasn't been many device roll-out for Bay Trail. Pricing is one reason why. Not many people will pay $500-600 for a Bay Trail hybrid, or $300 for a 8" tablet (except for Apple's of course). Asus T100 hits a good price point, but as you found, it has major compromises.
The second reason is that Win 8.1 is a yawner. It may not have the hate that Win 8 engendered, but there is no consumer enthusiasm for it. Going into this shopping season, the hope was that Haswell and Bay Trail, along with 8.1, would kick-start Windows sales. Doesn't look like that will happen. Now you know the real reason why Ballmer is crying his way out the door.

e.mote,
Just because a CPU has higher clock it doesn't mean it is actually better.
An 1Gz i5 is better than an 1.8 ghz Atom. It is all about the architecture, so you can't compare them like that. Celeron is faster than Atom, but the difference won't be noticeable in daily usage (inbefore benchmarks: they are pretty useless for daily usage performance)
As for windows 8/8.1, we understand you can't get your head around using it, but you shouldn't present "general consensus facts" which are exactly the opposite in reality.

>An 1Gz i5 is better than an 1.8 ghz Atom. It is all about the architecture, so you can't compare them like that.
You need to get yourself educated. The above discussion is about the same Silvermont architecture. There is no Core here. The Celeron/Pentium/whatever are brandings applied. A Bay Trail M running at 1.6 or 2GHz is faster than a Bay Trail T at 1.33, period. It is that simple.
>which are exactly the opposite in reality
I'm sure the fanboy's version of reality is indeed different.

e.mote said:
It's likely why Bay Trail T is 32-bit only
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't likely why the Bay Trail T is 32 bit only because Bay Trail T isn't 32 bit only.
Its 64 bit. Go check ark.intel.com yourself, or even the thread on this very forum where someone is attempting to boot linux on the T100.
http://ark.intel.com/products/76759/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z3740-2M-Cache-up-to-1_86-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/78416/Intel-Atom-Processor-Z3740D-2M-Cache-up-to-1_86-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/76752/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2910-2M-Cache-1_60-GHz
Celeron drops the variable clock speeds but has a higher RAM cap but at a lower frequency. Celeron maximum graphics core clock is higher, although it doesnt say what the minimum is and is lacking a few extra features.
The celeron will always run at 1.6ghz as opposed to the atom branded chip being 1.33 and then occasionally overclocking itself to 1.86
---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------
e.mote said:
>which are exactly the opposite in reality
I'm sure the fanboy's version of reality is indeed different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not like you ever substantiate or provide any evidence to your claims that "everyone hates modern", "no one can use desktop in 8 or modern on desktops" or whatever other claims you have made at some point. He has a point

>It isn't likely why the Bay Trail T is 32 bit only because Bay Trail T isn't 32 bit only
Yes, the Silvermont architecture is 64-bit, which is why it can support 64-bit Win in the M line. As abundantly said, that the T line is 32-bit-(OS)-only is because of market positioning, not a technical deficiency.
>Celeron drops the variable clock speeds [etc]...
Yes, thanks for regurgitating my words back to me. I'm sure it's all worthwhile.
>Its not like you ever substantiate or provide any evidence to your claims that "everyone hates modern", "no one can use desktop in 8 or modern on desktops" or whatever other claims you have made at some point. He has a point
Does anybody ever provide evidence for anything on views espoused herein? Do you? Do you ever stop putting words in other people's mouth, as these above?
You want evidence that "8.1 has no consumer enthusiasm"? Look around in this very forum. See anyone jumping for joy at 8.1's features and improvements? See people lining up to buy 8.1 boxes? You think MS is turning itself upside down, and Ballmer bawling his guts out on stage because he's happy of the great Windows sales?

just out of curiosity is the baytrail atom chipset as powerful as the core 2 duo or duo core laptop cpu from 2007-2009 time frame.

rkoforever90 said:
just out of curiosity is the baytrail atom chipset as powerful as the core 2 duo or duo core laptop cpu from 2007-2009 time frame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As fast as a low end Penryn chip. For reference my P9700 @2.8ghz scores 2600 on geekbench 3 and the bay trail gets 2900. Note the bench is multicore and 32bit settings. However according to cinebench r11.5 my P9700 has higher single & multi core performance, but only slightly.
Also bay t z3740 gets 3343 in cinebench r10 and my laptop gets 6100, so bay is likely close to low end Penyrn or 1st gen i3.
Sent with Virtue

e.mote said:
>An 1Gz i5 is better than an 1.8 ghz Atom. It is all about the architecture, so you can't compare them like that.
You need to get yourself educated. The above discussion is about the same Silvermont architecture. There is no Core here. The Celeron/Pentium/whatever are brandings applied. A Bay Trail M running at 1.6 or 2GHz is faster than a Bay Trail T at 1.33, period. It is that simple.
>which are exactly the opposite in reality
I'm sure the fanboy's version of reality is indeed different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
e.mote said:
Both are Bay Trail, but are targeted at different platforms. The T100's Z3740 is designed for tablets,
http://ark.intel.com/products/76759 => celeron
while the Celeron N2910 is for entry notebooks,
http://ark.intel.com/products/76752 => atom
Then you proceed to compare their clock speeds
with higher SDP (4.5W vs 2W), higher clock (1.6GHz vs 1.3GHz), and can run 64-bit Win (all Bay Trail tablets are 32-bit only, until next year).
Even without Turbo, the N2910 is faster since it runs at 20% higher clock. That would be a noticeable difference. But still, we're talking about an Atom here. The downside is higher power use, hence the 2nd batt in the base of your model.
BTW, the US version of your mentioned hybrid is a bit better with a Pentium N3510, which is also a Bay Trail M, but has a base clock of 2GHz.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Laptops/HP-Pavilion/E4V88AV
http://ark.intel.com/products/76751
BTW, note that these come with Windows 8, not 8.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel Atom is a different architecture than the rest of the intel family processors.Celeron belongs in the same family as the core processors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron
Therefore, your CPU clock comparison between intel atom and celeron is null.
You should probably change your avatar image.
PS:this is more of a technical support forum than anything else. People don't usually end up on XDA developers if they do not have a problem. This is how i found about this forum too: I had a problem. There is no point in saying a technical support forum is a good indicator of how good or bad a software is.

mcosmin222 said:
Intel Atom is a different architecture than the rest of the intel family processors.Celeron belongs in the same family as the core processors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron
Therefore, your CPU clock comparison between intel atom and celeron is null.
You should probably change your avatar image.
PS:this is more of a technical support forum than anything else. People don't usually end up on XDA developers if they do not have a problem. This is how i found about this forum too: I had a problem. There is no point in saying a technical support forum is a good indicator of how good or bad a software is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Current celeron chips it seems intel have simply taken the silvermont core from bay trail and slapped the celeron branding on so they are one and the same now beyond what I have apparently regurgitated at e.mote yet he never actually said.
e.mote said:
>It isn't likely why the Bay Trail T is 32 bit only because Bay Trail T isn't 32 bit only
Yes, the Silvermont architecture is 64-bit, which is why it can support 64-bit Win in the M line. As abundantly said, that the T line is 32-bit-(OS)-only is because of market positioning, not a technical deficiency.
>Celeron drops the variable clock speeds [etc]...
Yes, thanks for regurgitating my words back to me. I'm sure it's all worthwhile.
>Its not like you ever substantiate or provide any evidence to your claims that "everyone hates modern", "no one can use desktop in 8 or modern on desktops" or whatever other claims you have made at some point. He has a point
Does anybody ever provide evidence for anything on views espoused herein? Do you? Do you ever stop putting words in other people's mouth, as these above?
You want evidence that "8.1 has no consumer enthusiasm"? Look around in this very forum. See anyone jumping for joy at 8.1's features and improvements? See people lining up to buy 8.1 boxes? You think MS is turning itself upside down, and Ballmer bawling his guts out on stage because he's happy of the great Windows sales?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Want to ignore intels own documents showing that BayTrail T is 64 bit? want to ignore people on this very forum booting 64 bit OSes on Bay Trail T? want to continue stating its 32 bit when it isn't? Fine by me, perhaps you profile picture is rather accurate. And before you claim I am putting words in peoples mouth with this post, its a direct unedited quote although you do seem incapable of ever using the quote button.
Windows sales at this point in time are actually showing a similar market share to when windows 7 was released. Desktop/Laptop PC sales have fallen as a whole according to many analysts as tablet sales gain ground with consumers.
This forum cannot be used as evidence. The forum is technical support. In general you find that most of the people who are happy with a product do not come here to give it praises, they just carry on using it as they do. People come here when they have an issue. Of course people arent going to be jumping for joy when they have come here to ask how to do something (which 99% of the time isnt even a windows 8 exclusive issue).

The new atoms are silver mount tho arnt they as they are bay trail chips
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-N2910-Notebook-Processor.101602.0.html
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app

>The new atoms are silver mount tho arnt they as they are bay trail chips
Yes, they are. Please ignore the noise. OK, you can ask for your money back!
BTW thanks to the hoi polloi for setting Mcosmin gal straight on the Cel thing. I would add something, but I don't wanna be accused of piling on the handicapped.
>This forum cannot be used as evidence. The forum is technical support.
Such an emphatic statement! But sadly, wrong. This forum is NOT tech support. Do read the header. It's a general discussion area for Win8. People help out because they want to, not because it's their designated task. People come here to jaw about Win8, as we are doing. Evidence? We love evidence! You have some for us, yes?
>Windows sales at this point in time are actually showing a similar market share to when windows 7 was released.
Oh, really! I'm sure that'd be news to many, especially to MS. Since you're so fond of "evidence," where is it? Please, do tell! Love to see which version of reality you reside in.
Then again, facts aren't something you're used to, so let me help ya out. From the horse's mouth:
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/...year-more-than-240-million-licenses-sold.aspx
"As of September [2010], Windows 7 was running on 93% of new consumer PCs and has over 17% global OS market share (according to Net Applications as of October 1st)"
Per Net Applications, at end of Oct 2010, one year after its release, Win7's market share was 18.9%.
http://www.netmarketshare.com/repor...+7&qpcustomb=0&qpsp=2009&qpnp=2&qptimeframe=Y
Meanwhile,
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/...ling-first-time-windows-8-1-takes-1-72-share/
"The latest market share data from Net Applications shows that October 2013 was a slow one for Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 combined...[at] 9.25 percent."
Yes, 18.9% is indeedy VERY SIMILAR to 9.25%. Gotta love the new math they teach in schools nowaday. (Yes we're assuming the little fella did see the inside of a school at some point...OK it's a possibility.)
Hey wanna see something to warm your cockles?
http://www.netmarketshare.com/opera...11&qpcustomb=0&qpsp=165&qpnp=13&qptimeframe=M
Going great guns is Win 8.x! Gosh at this torrid pace it might even get to 10% by next century!
>In general you find that most of the people who are happy with a product do not come here to give it praises, they just carry on using it as they do.
Uh oh, more generalizations with NO EVIDENCE. What would Mcosmin lass say!
Yes yes I know them well...the unsung "silent majority" toiling away in the shadow of your imagination. If only they would RISE UP AND BE COUNTED, the world would be a happier place. I'm sure they will do it tomorrow.
Census count! ARE YE A HAPPY WIN8 USER? If yes, go buy smore Win toys and help Ballmer keep his job!
So, what's next on the fanboy scapegoating list? Should we blame the marketing, or do we go after the biased MSM peeps? Heck I'm kinda partial to the breakdancing Catholic school tots. They got tudes. OK it's the bloggers' fault.

Hardware requirements for Android studio 2.1

Hi Everyone,
I wish to start learning android development in android studio but I have a major concern about the hardware requirements. I have two machines at hand, First one is a very old desktop with an athlon 64 2800+ single core with just 2.5GB ram and Windows xp sp3 which i know would be a big no. Second one is a new HP laptop with 5th gen core i3 and 4GB ram on windows 10. I wish to know, if the laptop will be able to run it with reasonable performance or if I should certainly look at upgrading the desktop. The problem is that I can't afford the latest hardware for desktop so I will be looking at some used hardware online. I am getting some affordable deals on a used AMD phenom II X2 555 and an AMD Phenom 9550 quad core, both coupled with decent motherboards. So basically its between the laptop and those phenom processors. Which way will it be better?

vikrant1982 said:
Hi Everyone,
I wish to start learning android development in android studio but I have a major concern about the hardware requirements. I have two machines at hand, First one is a very old desktop with an athlon 64 2800+ single core with just 2.5GB ram and Windows xp sp3 which i know would be a big no. Second one is a new HP laptop with 5th gen core i3 and 4GB ram on windows 10. I wish to know, if the laptop will be able to run it with reasonable performance or if I should certainly look at upgrading the desktop. The problem is that I can't afford the latest hardware for desktop so I will be looking at some used hardware online. I am getting some affordable deals on a used AMD phenom II X2 555 and an AMD Phenom 9550 quad core, both coupled with decent motherboards. So basically its between the laptop and those phenom processors. Which way will it be better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the laptop will run it. I've tried making app on a very old pc with barely 1 or 2 gb ram and successfully completed till the basic "hello world" app. Runs very slow though. But i think your laptop is good enough for app building
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 AM ----------
simranjitsingh said:
I think the laptop will run it. I've tried making app on a very old pc with barely 1 or 2 gb ram and successfully completed till the basic "hello world" app. Although runs very slow. It all depends on the ram. But i think your laptop is good enough for app building
Besides you should have a look at this excellent free pdf guide for beginners. Easy and noob friendly,Helped me a lot
http://www.ebooksfeed.com/16/head-first-android-development-free-pdf/
Happy app building[emoji4]
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

simranjitsingh said:
I think the laptop will run it. I've tried making app on a very old pc with barely 1 or 2 gb ram and successfully completed till the basic "hello world" app. Runs very slow though. But i think your laptop is good enough for app building
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot Simranjit, really appreciate your inputs.

I'd say your notebook shoud run Android Studio quite ok. Don't expect great performance though. Especially if you plan on using original Emulators, they are eating RAM like dogs.
I'm running AS on my 8 years old computer with Core2 Duo E6400 and 4Gb of RAM. Works ok, but not ligthing fast.
I've recently added an SSD to the configuration. Boy, that did speed things up! So, consider getting SSD if you will buy a new system. Or installing it to your notebook will also definitely boot overall system performance and loading times.

In Linux, (SWAP)
In Windows, (Paging File)
This can be considered equal to RAM and can actually be used as a substitute.
It is possible with a big enough SWAP or Paging file to use really old HW, your build-times will suffer but it's feasible if it has to be done.

I wish to start learning android development in android studio but I have a major concern about the hardware requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me give you the respect of a truly proper reply. Since you're actually buying stuff....
1 ) Hardware
CPU: Intel Pentium G4400 - 60$
GPU: Integrated HD510
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-H110M-S2H - 60$
SSD: Intel SSD 600P - 70$
PSU: Standard 30$
Case: 15-30$ standard case
DDR4-2133: $40~ for 2x4GB sticks
Dual-memory is important here; the PCIE SSD will have a write speed fast enough to compensate for the dual-core CPU.
This is also a semi-future proof model too, since adding an i3-6100 at a future time will yield a huge improvement as it has 4 threads; the next biggest upgrade is an i7 which has 8 threads the i5 is insignificant in this.
This build will actually allow you to produce AOSP and things like this in under 1 hour.
IF YOU USE AN OVERCLOCK MOTHER BOARD:
G4400 can be brought to like 4.5 GHz which is insanely fast but you need a fan, i3 won't do anything for you as the non-K overclock kills hyper-threading; reducing it to being the same as a G4400.
i5 is the same as an i7 here for the same reason; no hyper-threading.
So if you could spring for an i5 you may as well go for an overclocking build.
I mean doing it either way would yield good results, but it is just a little more expensive in the MOBO area.

InterfaceNode said:
Let me give you the respect of a truly proper reply. Since you're actually buying stuff....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is some great info. Also, I have one more doubt, the reason why I looked at those used AMD chips is that I have read a couple of times people mentioning that the AMD chips handle android studio better due to better multi threaded performance than intel. If that really is the case then I can stretch a tiny bit more and get an FX-4300 since there isn't a lot of difference here between the G4400 and an FX-4300 but, thats only if i absolutely decide to build a new PC. Right now I am having a hard time considering an entirely new machine. Actually I had to leave my job two months back after a 10 years service. I saved up money all those years so decided to take a plunge and learn android and find a new job. Though I have healthy reserves today, I am not sure how long will it take for me to learn, be productive and find a new job.
Also, I want to add that those prices are inflated here in my country. For reference, that G4400 is around 80$ due to import duties and thats an online price on Amazon. On local stores it can be even more.

vikrant1982 said:
That is some great info. Also, I have one more doubt, the reason why I looked at those used AMD chips is that I have read a couple of times people mentioning that the AMD chips handle android studio better due to better multi threaded performance than intel. If that really is the case then I can stretch a tiny bit more and get an FX-4300 since there isn't a lot of difference here between the G4400 and an FX-4300 but, thats only if i absolutely decide to build a new PC. Right now I am having a hard time considering an entirely new machine. Actually I had to leave my job two months back after a 10 years service. I saved up money all those years so decided to take a plunge and learn android and find a new job. Though I have healthy reserves today, I am not sure how long will it take for me to learn, be productive and find a new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learning Android is worth it; and it will enhance your knowledge of Linux in general and yes you will make money eventually.
Also, I have one more doubt, the reason why I looked at those used AMD chips is that I have read a couple of times people mentioning that the AMD chips handle android studio better due to better multi threaded performance than intel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very correct, but... well.
There is really no situation where an FX CPU will beat an Intel CPU.
I'm saying it because I love you and don't want to see you make a huge mistake.
Do not mess with future-proofing ok?
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-FX-9590-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K/1812vs1487
These CPUs are roughly the same price (refurbished or used i7-3930k is fine, nobody uses them hard compared to us.)
But the 3930k has 4 more threads; it is significantly stronger in single-core power as well so naturally the workstation score will be higher; and will build an entire OS in under 35 minutes no matter what.
When paired with strong Read/Write HW such as a PCIe SSD which should be considered REQUIRED if you value your time (you should, time is money here in regard to testing) you will be able to whack a build in under 15 minutes with this kind of HW probably.
Lesser builds such as Apps will probably take a minute or less.
You can obtain a 3930k for under 200$ no problem.
You will never be able to find a FX CPU that is worth it over an intel CPU.
FX CPU require tremendous cooling power to use! They pull a ton of energy too!
You can even run Android Studio on ARM CPUs if you're really struggling cash-wise and I can make suggestions here too.
Let me accommodate you ok?
I feel you work too hard for your money to burn it on a bad choice, tell me exactly how much you're looking to spend and I will give you an EXACT list of HW that will be unbeatable.
Dude, if you need help I can absolutely direct you to someone in China who can obtain these units are an incredibly reasonable price because these things are all made in China.
They are drowning in these parts.
I can find you a 3930k for uh, around 130$?
Look, it is a very effective CPU.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K/3502vs1487
This is what I suggest you use, seriously.

InterfaceNode said:
Dude, if you need help I can absolutely direct you to someone in China who can obtain these units are an incredibly reasonable price because these things are all made in China.
They are drowning in these parts.
I can find you a 3930k for uh, around 130$?
Look, it is a very effective CPU.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3930K/3502vs1487
This is what I suggest you use, seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, let me just work it out and see how much I can pull it up to and then I can just get back to you. Again, thanks a lot for you time and help.

vikrant1982 said:
Great, let me just work it out and see how much I can pull it up to and then I can just get back to you. Again, thanks a lot for you time and help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it takes you 2 hours to build, you can only test a thing 5 times a day roughly.
Because it will take a LOT of time to trouble-shoot a project, you won't be able to build back to back as soon as the next build is finished :x
Trust me, if you strengthen your HW you will advance very fast it matters a LOT.
Even to rent a Cloud VM would be acceptable, Google offers the service man