A number of posters either dispute or are no sure of the warranty position regarding rooting in particular .
Fact one the phone provider who is usually responsible for the first twelve months warranty can most certainly reject warranty for non original firmware or rooting .In the UK i have checked the position with O2 and Vodaphone who say they will reject under terms of their warranty .
SAMSUNG own warranty which is also usually paid in the first twelve months to the seller/repairer .
Basically say exactly the same rooting or custom rom voids warranty .
The letter on Samfirmware for starters if you don't believe .
http://www.samfirmware.com/apps/blo...cs-?&fw_comments_page=2&fw_comments_order=ASC
Extract from other sources .
ROOTING:
• Corporate recently added an additional reason for an Android handset to be considered as Out-Of-Warranty.
• Android handsets that have been subject to “rooting”, “jailbreaking” or “hacking” are no longer covered under warranty and may be grounds for termination or modification of service.
• Rooting is a process that modifies a handsets software allowing access to services not supported or tested by the Carrier or OEM.
• While there are more applications out there that allow subscribers to gain root access, a specific example seen on a Samsung Galaxy Indulge is shown below.
• If you see this application on the handset, please explain that the handset is out of warranty and be certain to access the customer’s account and add a memo that the handset has been rooted.
The picture they posted of is super user and some other ones.
another source
The reason I'm posting this now is because Samsung have only this week implemented a system for Service Centres to check if the handset has been rooted.
Point is its very easy in most cases to unroot and flash a stock firmware .
Some service guys may well turn a blind eye to rooting others may not .No good saying some guy on XDA said it was ok .
User choice but i have seen enough to convince me 100% ROOT = VOID WARRANTY .
jje
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
Coedy said:
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but its recently been disputed by some so i just pulled out my notes .
jje
^ Some people just don't get it however and seem to think they're still entitled, even if they returned it to stock and reset the counter, etc...
Individual cases may vary, maybe you'll get a "mod friendly" warranty facility, but I wouldn't feel bad for someone who gets denied warranty in the least. If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
True, i already expect that I'll void the warranty once i root my phone.. it's the point of no return..
I keep a safe distance on messing up my phone, make sure i don't get too far and ended up with a dummy display phone..
Sent from The Center of The Earth
mudferret said:
If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I would hope everyone would understand the risk before doing something like this.
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
This should be stickied with a tagline along the lines of:-
"Thinking of flashing a custom rom or kernel ? Consider this..."
I'm with Bell and I had a Rooted Atrix with cyanogenmod 7 beta 3 (back in the days..) and I had screens problems, I gave my phone to Bell and they send it to Motorola and it works flawlessly but they put me back on their motoscrap...
I'm sure Samsung will do the same thing
But thanks you anyways
harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Bam !
Beautifully put Zelendel Rooting/flashing (like throwing rocks) is all fun & games until someone gets hurt
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
They are not going to look that far .
Boot screen Custom rom possible if doing the job check for root apps /root.
As i said a lot dont even bother and just flash stock rom and repair .
But a lot is not all .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the new popularity of rooting, checking these things are becoming standard. To be honest I am glad. It will make people think first before they follow a video on youtube that is normally made by someone that has no idea what they are doing other then following a simple how to.
Modding a device is not ment for everyone. Nor should everyone do it.
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
aloy99 said:
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they can terminate your contract if you mod your phone is anyway. Not to mention charging you the full price of the phone and the rest of the contract left over.
Main reason there are warnings all over the place about knowing and understanding what you are doing before you do it.
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
You may not be entitled to a remedy if you:
damage or use goods in an unreasonable or unintended manner
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Im interested in what the laws are like in the EU.
However my own position on this is that one should be allowed to use any software and mods to software you want.
If there is a hardware malfunction they should fix it whatever software you chose to use. If you brick the bootloader they can JTAG it probably.
And this far i have never had anyone ever say anything about me using custom roms and the like.
However i would still like to know what the laws say.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
rako77 said:
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point.
Amazon repair service didn't use forensic software when I sent them a xperia Neo with the 0%-bug. They replaced it without much ado. Lucky me ;-)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
zelendel said:
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rooting does not mess with the drivers and I am defiantly not touching the cpu clock.
The only reported case of a pc manufacturer that i can find refusing to remedy a hardware problem where the operating system was changed was pc world which later stated that was not there policy and would preform a repair. international law may be different but under Australian law I have full ownership of the device and I think it is outrageous that companies try and weasel there way out of their rights to the consumer.
In my mind if the fault is there's they have to fix it and no way should they be able to say otherwise. Its really just a matter of who has the burden of proof.
Does Knox warranty void = Device warranty void
Who and why decided that the one equals the other?
The warranty void flag is for Knox, and it could only mean that there is no warranty for this piece of software if you downgrade your devise.
Some lawyers here?
Whats wrong with the other knox threads?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I think the words "warranty void" are pretty clear.
I also think that the manufacturer aka "Samsung" is the one that decides.
My opinion is Samsung are sick of noobs who keep playing with their phone without knowing what they are doing stuffing them up and claiming warranty when there is nothing wrong with the phone.
Disclamer these are my opinions and beliefs.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
I think the
KNOX Warranty Void Flag (KWVF) is exactly that what it says
The Warranty for the SECURE System (KNOX) is voided
So you can't use the secure KNOX Container anymore
KNOX was build for Enterprise and BYOD (Bring Your Own Device)
When the Device is compromised by Root or Custom Recovery then this warranty for a secure Device is voided.
Before KNOX is starting / opening the crypted KNOX Container the KWVF is checked.
If it is triggered (0x1) the KNOX denies the access to the KNOX Container.
If not so Samsung can't sell KNOX as a SECURE System.
I don't think that the KWVF alone can void Device Warranty,
Maybe some Samsung Service Centers try to act so, but i think in Europe this will be against law.
On the other Side there are Flash Counters / a warranty Bit and eMMC Burst Mode:
Here I fully understand Samsungs effort to deny warranty if device is bricked by flashing anything to it.
A lot of noobs flash nearly everything in the second it was uploaded.
A lot of them don't use the brain or are to lazy to read the Thread ( or others) before click on the Start Button in Odin.
Such (mostly Softbricked) Devices going under warranty to the Samsung Service Centers cost a huge amount of Money to repair (reflash) for Samsung.
Thats a fully normal (and leagal) way that Samsung try to push down that costs by denieing warranty for such Devices.
What if there will be a way to reset KNOX? (I think thats only a question of time!)
If this happens the KNOX is unsecure and worthless in Enterprise use.
So Samsung and Developers will start a long-lasting ping pong game.
Instead of this Samsung should build in a Method (in Stock Recovery or anywhre else) that can do a KNOX Warranty Flag reset of the cost of totally wipe the phone including internal SD and Knox Containers.
So a once compromised phone can be reset to a normal state.
Regards
Thanks for the profound answer @Tanis64.
That's my understanding too, but your answer makes it clearer and easier to use it as a legal argument.
yep, that just about covers my feelings on the matter too
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Since it is pretty clear that Samsung is not going to honor warranty service on knox tripped devices, I'm wondering of they will still fix them for a fee.
Why am I wondering? I'm curious if they can reset knox at the factory. If so, it means we can reset knox ourselves. I'm an electrical engineer and am looking into a hardware modification that would render knox useless.
In non technical terms, it would be similar to bypassing a blown fuse in your car with a piece of metal in place of the burnt fuse.
It is extremely possible, depending on the efuse they use. It's hard for me to imagine they would install the efuse in such a way that even they would be unable to reverse it.
Efuses are not new technology, and their main purpose is to act in a very simiar way to standard circuit breaker. And just like a tripped breaker, they can be reset. Its simply a matter of what type they used, and how it was implemented
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
Since it is pretty clear that Samsung is not going to honor warranty service on knox tripped devices, I'm wondering of they will still fix them for a fee.
Why am I wondering? I'm curious if they can reset knox at the factory. If so, it means we can reset knox ourselves. I'm an electrical engineer and am looking into a hardware modification that would render knox useless.
In non technical terms, it would be similar to bypassing a blown fuse in your car with a piece of metal in place of the burnt fuse.
It is extremely possible, depending on the efuse they use. It's hard for me to imagine they would install the efuse in such a way that even they would be unable to reverse it.
Efuses are not new technology, and their main purpose is to act in a very simiar way to standard circuit breaker. And just like a tripped breaker, they can be reset. Its simply a matter of what type they used, and how it was implemented
Yea its possible with a unlocked boot loader cause removing knox itself from the system is not hard but that counter is in the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jparasita said:
Yea its possible with a unlocked boot loader cause removing knox itself from the system is not hard but that counter is in the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it truly is an efuse, they are physically blown transistors due to intentional electromigration , inhibiting electron flow through the channel, basically, preventing the gate from allowing electron flow through the channel.
however, if the efuse is an external chip (most of them are, it would be added to the motherboard, just like ram, wifi chip, wacom digitizer.. etc) then that chip will either have a reset (by applying voltage to the latch) or can be bypassed physically (pulled up to Vcc).
In this case, an unlocked boot loader would not be able to bypass the blown fuse link. It may, however, be able to forgo checking the status of the efuse, but I really don't know know how its all assembled, since getting a datasheet on the board from samsung would be impossible. The only hope I have as an engineer is to examine the board and attempt to find the location of the fuse.
Here is some efuse Education:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
You may want to read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2561658
So it seems as if there is some misinformation running around on all ends. Seems logical to me to go with the Samsung knox website, where they say that hardware warranty is separate from knox warranty.
I'm going to email samsung and try to get a straight answer. I'll setup a claim for my device. I'll say it has a bad home button or something silly, then mention the knox bit is tripped. The 2 are totally unrelated, so seems like a good test.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
So it seems as if there is some misinformation running around on all ends. Seems logical to me to go with the Samsung knox website, where they say that hardware warranty is separate from knox warranty.
I'm going to email samsung and try to get a straight answer. I'll setup a claim for my device. I'll say it has a bad home button or something silly, then mention the knox bit is tripped. The 2 are totally unrelated, so seems like a good test.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be intesting to follow. Looking forward to see what happens.
An efuse is not like a standard circuit breaker at all. It is like a regular fuse. Circuit breakers are designed to be reset. They are not permanently physically modified in any way when tripped. Efuses and fuses, on the other hand, are physically burned when they are tripped, and cannot be reverted.
As far as being on a separate chip: I highly doubt this to be the case. First, to minimize power consumption no one wants to drive an extra package. Second, virtually all SoC designs incorporate an efuse bank somewhere on their chip. Though I could be wrong on this point, as there could be incentive to include them off-SoC if device remanufacturing (read: refurbishing) is a significant source of revenue for the OEM.
Source: I am a SoC design engineer for an industry outside the mobile personal electronics sector, and they are pretty much commonplace in every SoC made in at least the last 5+ years.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
flinttownbrown said:
An efuse is not like a standard circuit breaker at all. It is like a regular fuse. Circuit breakers are designed to be reset. They are not permanently physically modified in any way when tripped. Efuses and fuses, on the other hand, are physically burned when they are tripped, and cannot be reverted.
As far as being on a separate chip: I highly doubt this to be the case. First, to minimize power consumption no one wants to drive an extra package. Second, virtually all SoC designs incorporate an efuse bank somewhere on their chip. Though I could be wrong on this point, as there could be incentive to include them off-SoC if device remanufacturing (read: refurbishing) is a significant source of revenue for the OEM.
Source: I am a SoC design engineer for an industry outside the mobile personal electronics sector, and they are pretty much commonplace in every SoC made in at least the last 5+ years.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right, but my assumption is that they are not using SoC efuse's. If this were the case, they would be forced to toss boards with blown fuses. Since their goal with the efuse is not to prevent damage, but to indicate intrusuon, a way to "reset" the fuse would seem preferable.
We use several efuse's that are circuit breaker style, and not fuse.
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/content.do?id=17031
Just one several. These can be added to any design for protection, but could also be used in this application. Once tripped they would stay tripped until reset. If the reset pin is left unused, then it can only be reset exrernally, which I suspect is the case.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
I actually contacted Samsung Canada to know if tripping Knox voids hardware warranty. This is the response I got:
Dear XXXXXX,
Thank you for contacting Samsung Customer Care.
After going through the email, we understand that you want to know if rooting voids the warranty.
I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.
I need to inform you, rooting of device will void standard manufacture's warranty.
Click on the below weblink for details about Samsung products warranty info :
http://bit.ly/1d1MfW4
For details about Knox, please contact our dedicated support for Knox at +1 855 567 5669 for further assistance.
We hope we’ve answered your inquiry. Please let us know if there are any additional questions or concerns.
You can also visit our How To & FAQ >section on the website for more product information.
We deeply value your loyalty to Samsung and are committed to provide you with the highest level of customer
service. If for any reason theinformation we provided did not resolve your issue, we have various
contact channels that are available to assist in resolving your concern
For immediate assistance with a live agent, you can chat with us here
For support by phone, you can reach us at 1-800-SAMSUNG(726-7864)
Samsung’s Social Media Team is available to assist with providing up-to-date information or answering questions.
Visit us on Facebook
Visit us on Twitter
Thank you for being a Samsung Customer!
Kind Regards,
Sandy
Samsung Customer Care
http://www.samsung.com/ca
Our goal is to provide our customers with the best customer service possible. Please complete the following customer service survey based on customer experience with your agent.
Your feedback will enable us to see how we're doing overall and find out how we can improve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't really seem like they understood the question, but whatever. Guess I'll avoid rooting until someone figures out a 0x0 method, if at all. Its weird because people in the S4 forum asked the same thing about Knox and warranty and Samsung's response was that the phone should still retain hardware warranty.
i just wanted to note that samsung will still cover hardware defects if you use knox.
smac7 said:
i just wanted to note that samsung will still cover hardware defects if you use knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source of your sentence?
It depends on which defects they are... and the proof that the issue is related to factory defects is on your charge...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
francanna said:
Source of your sentence?
It depends on which defects they are... and the proof that the issue is related to factory defects is on your charge...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
transcript from my conversation.
General Info
Chat start time Oct 9, 2013 6:59:14 PM EST
Chat end time Oct 9, 2013 7:10:06 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:10:51
Operator Vivian C
Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
info: All Samsung Agents are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A Samsung Agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Vivian C'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK111790932073X
Vivian C: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
shane: Hi.
shane: i have a question in regards to warrenty on the new galaxy note 10.1
Vivian C: Hi, please go ahead with the query?
shane: I understand that rooting will void the warranty for software issues and anything related to rooting, but does it also void it for issues such as a broken power button or a physical problem with the screen.
shane: Basically, are hardware issues unrelated to root still covered?
Vivian C: Yes, they are covered but no physical damages to the unit.
Vivian C: I can understand how important this is to you.
shane: so you mean as long as it doesn't appear to be the consumers fault (drops for example) then its fine?
Vivian C: I could certainly relate to what you are going through as I am a consumer myself.
Vivian C: The hardware issues are covered if it is under warranty.
shane: ok thank you for the info. that's all i wanted to know before i went through with my purchase
Vivian C: I appreciate the patience you displayed while we worked together on this issue.
Vivian C: Thank you for chatting with us. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
smac7 said:
transcript from my conversation.
General Info
Chat start time Oct 9, 2013 6:59:14 PM EST
Chat end time Oct 9, 2013 7:10:06 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:10:51
Operator Vivian C
Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
info: All Samsung Agents are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A Samsung Agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Vivian C'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK111790932073X
Vivian C: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
shane: Hi.
shane: i have a question in regards to warrenty on the new galaxy note 10.1
Vivian C: Hi, please go ahead with the query?
shane: I understand that rooting will void the warranty for software issues and anything related to rooting, but does it also void it for issues such as a broken power button or a physical problem with the screen.
shane: Basically, are hardware issues unrelated to root still covered?
Vivian C: Yes, they are covered but no physical damages to the unit.
Vivian C: I can understand how important this is to you.
shane: so you mean as long as it doesn't appear to be the consumers fault (drops for example) then its fine?
Vivian C: I could certainly relate to what you are going through as I am a consumer myself.
Vivian C: The hardware issues are covered if it is under warranty.
shane: ok thank you for the info. that's all i wanted to know before i went through with my purchase
Vivian C: I appreciate the patience you displayed while we worked together on this issue.
Vivian C: Thank you for chatting with us. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all and nothing. Samsung VP told in knox website that warranty policies may be different country by country. In general it is true what I said before. You are supposed to prove that the defect is non software related. E.G. zif your screen stops working or you experience motherboard issues, Samsung may say it depends on overclock or other root related stuff.
So what remains you is just power button failure...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
^ Nice, I should follow up with Samsung Canada through live chat because at the very least this gives me a bit more confidence to root without having any hardware warranty concerns. However I wonder if they can still refuse warranty "just because" even though it may have been confirmed by their online agents.
I am left wondering how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, and all the case law that led to it's enactment, would relate to Samsung's apparent unwillingness to honor a warranty claim related to hardware issues on a rooted (modified) device when Samsung is unable to show that the rooting of the device was the direct cause of the hardware failure.
I think it is time that a group of consumers tripped the Knox counter on their devices by rooting, and sent them in to Samsung for a hardware related repair such as a bad home button or a screen failure and then see if Samsung will honor the warranty or deny the claim solely based on said tripped Knox counter.
If Samsung denies the claim without showing just cause, the group could then show harm and either file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (here in the US) or they could file a class action law suit against Samsung if they could find an attorney(s) stupid enough to do it.
There is nothing in the Samsung Terms of Service that precludes class actions as AT&T does.
JACK4HIRE said:
I am left wondering how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, and all the case law that led to it's enactment, would relate to Samsung's apparent unwillingness to honor a warranty claim related to hardware issues on a rooted (modified) device when Samsung is unable to show that the rooting of the device was the direct cause of the hardware failure.
I think it is time that a group of consumers tripped the Knox counter on their devices by rooting, and sent them in to Samsung for a hardware related repair such as a bad home button or a screen failure and then see if Samsung will honor the warranty or deny the claim solely based on said tripped Knox counter.
If Samsung denies the claim without showing just cause, the group could then show harm and either file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (here in the US) or they could file a class action law suit against Samsung if they could find an attorney(s) stupid enough to do it.
There is nothing in the Samsung Terms of Service that precludes class actions as AT&T does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People, it will be exactely as it has been so far: do you remember that Samsung has put a modified device counter in its device for years? What happens to you warranty today if you root a Galaxy S2 and do not use CF Triangle Away?
Some hardware issues have been passed under warranty, some others not.
Some display failures may depend on kernel settings; motherboard issues may depend on voltage and frequencies that are kernel related. Be sure this will not covered.
Hardware buttons are not sw related and will be repaired.
But who wants to keep a warranty limited to 3 hw buttons?
francanna said:
People, it will be exactely as it has been so far: do you remember that Samsung has put a modified device counter in its device for years? What happens to you warranty today if you root a Galaxy S2 and do not use CF Triangle Away?
Some hardware issues have been passed under warranty, some others not.
Some display failures may depend on kernel settings; motherboard issues may depend on voltage and frequencies that are kernel related. Be sure this will not covered.
Hardware buttons are not sw related and will be repaired.
But who wants to keep a warranty limited to 3 hw buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that we do not have custom kernels, all root has given us is apps like titanium, and other root style apps. We can't modify any voltage settings, or anything that could damage the device. Need a kernel for that.
The only thing you could do right now is flash bad firmware, and brick. But that's possible with or with out root. Any time you flash firmware there is a possibility of bricking. Seems illogical that just because I can use titanium backup and xposed, means a failed update from mk1 to ml1 would be the fault of root. They are not even related. That's like saying installing a new stereo in my car caused the engine to blow a headgasket.
Remember, root only affects the running and booted operating system. Once you are in recovery, or download mode.. root has nothing to do with it. just like in windows. When you install a windows program, if you shutdown and boot to bios.. that program doesn't exist as far as the computer is concerned. Only after it has booted the main hard drive and read the proper master boot record, and loads windows does that program exist.
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Serinety said:
Given that we do not have custom kernels, all root has given us is apps like titanium, and other root style apps. We can't modify any voltage settings, or anything that could damage the device. Need a kernel for that.
The only thing you could do right now is flash bad firmware, and brick. But that's possible with or with out root. Any time you flash firmware there is a possibility of bricking. Seems illogical that just because I can use titanium backup and xposed, means a failed update from mk1 to ml1 would be the fault of root. They are not even related. That's like saying installing a new stereo in my car caused the engine to blow a headgasket.
Remember, root only affects the running and booted operating system. Once you are in recovery, or download mode.. root has nothing to do with it. just like in windows. When you install a windows program, if you shutdown and boot to bios.. that program doesn't exist as far as the computer is concerned. Only after it has booted the main hard drive and read the proper master boot record, and loads windows does that program exist.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
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You are right, BUT...
Today we have no custom kernel on Note 2014, but as soon as Samsung releases the source code we will have. For Note 3 custom kernels do exist.
So, generally speaking, I may root the phone, flash a custom kernel and, in case of disaster, restore stock kernel.
That is why even a simple root is considered non samsung system modification... and Knox activates the efuse in case of any non samsung system modification because it needs the system to be perfectly integer and Samsung certified for business reasons (BYOD strategies).
Finally: no root means no kernel no rom... no problem for Samsung.
I am not justifying Samsung. Only trying to explain their logic.
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francanna said:
You are right, BUT...
Today we have no custom kernel on Note 2014, but as soon as Samsung releases the source code we will have. For Note 3 custom kernels do exist.
So, generally speaking, I may root the phone, flash a custom kernel and, in case of disaster, restore stock kernel.
That is why even a simple root is considered non samsung system modification... and Knox activates the efuse in case of any non samsung system modification because it needs the system to be perfectly integer and Samsung certified for business reasons (BYOD strategies).
Finally: no root means no kernel no rom... no problem for Samsung.
I am not justifying Samsung. Only trying to explain their logic.
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk
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True, although they should make a business version and a consumer version. But......like THAT would ever happen lol. Seems silly to force business solutions onto a consumer, non business customer experience. I assume samsung is going to be pushing knox into all their new devices.. which kinda blows the whole "for business" slogan of knox. I have to think , not many samsung smartphone/tablets are used in a Purley business application.
Ahh...such is life. If they can make it, we can break it....
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Serinety said:
True, although they should make a business version and a consumer version. But......like THAT would ever happen lol. Seems silly to force business solutions onto a consumer, non business customer experience. I assume samsung is going to be pushing knox into all their new devices.. which kinda blows the whole "for business" slogan of knox. I have to think , not many samsung smartphone/tablets are used in a Purley business application.
Ahh...such is life. If they can make it, we can break it....
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
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As you know Blackberry is almost out of the market and Windows Phone has not such a great appeal. That is a huge oppotunity for Samsung, but they have to face Android bad reputation as an "unsecure" system.
That is the main reason for Knox.
"Security" and "data integrity" are marketing messages they decided to spend also in consumer market... although we know that most of people would not need neither use Knox.
Moreover Samsung well knows that modders are only a very small part of the consumer universe. Although Samsung NEEDS modder's community.
My note: IMHO Android security problems are NOT directly related to rooting... on the contrary, rooting (URDLV, for example) would use system exploits... but it is true that having a rooted device increases the possibilities of possible security issues for un-aware people.
People still think that rooting is required for having "cracked applications" and things link that.
Hello
Do you remember, some months ago when a developer had successfully found an anwser to the Knox counter reset ?
Samsung Galaxy Note 3 was running on a Exynos SoC, same as the Galaxy S6 (edge), so I think structures might be the same thing.
Why not try to create a patch to reset Knox flag at its original state ?
I'm sure it's possible, and as we says in my country : "impossible isn't French" ^_^
your warranty is only 1 year anyway, so by the time people cracked the knox counter your warranty has already expired... and the reward isn't worth the effort, and in some regions this might even be illegal as you will be defrauding the manufacturer, so I think knox counter will always be with us in Samsung devices from now on.
iDroid27210 said:
Why not try to create a patch to reset Knox flag at its original state ?
I'm sure it's possible, and as we says in my country : "impossible isn't French" ^_^
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I'm not sure it is possible. It is quite possible that the Knox "bit" is actually a fuse that the system blows when non-standard software is run. In that case the only way to "reset" the counter is to replace the chip housing it (or effectively the entire system board).
Well,in the S2,Note 1-2 ,etc ERA the Knox was on the software side. First version .
Nowdays its a little bit on the hardware side. Its impossible. I mean,you d waste more than 1 year to crack it. Its not worth it.