Hi!
I want to upgrade my Blue angel to WM6 but i wonder is it Leagal to do that?
thx for the help
Nope officially its illegal
thats bad
why?
it is outside the terms and conditions of our BA...
and of course...
*** drumroll ***
Micr0$oft's Legal Hold on the WM OS Softwares.
lol...is anything on the internet LEGAL nowadays?
SilverSamurai said:
it is outside the terms and conditions of our BA...
and of course...
*** drumroll ***
Micr0$oft's Legal Hold on the WM OS Softwares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i guess :/ but cant i just buy the rights to use it,.... no i guess not..
BU!
thx for the answare thougt
It depends on your view of the law. Microsoft may be breaking the law by using anti-competitive tactics to force people to throw out old devices (and buy new ones... just to get the new software). If you believe that, then the EULA is illegal to begin with.
Further, unlike with desktop versions of Windows, the agreement to the EULA is never expressly made. You never click I Agree to an EULA during the initial startup. There are several scenarios where a user never would need to enter into agreement with the EULA, making it non-existent to the consumer in the first place.
Each of the arguments has legal holes in them, but so does Microsoft's... I doubt the courts will ever hash it out before Microsoft is forced to wise up and keep a steady stream of software updates until the hardware is truly obsoleted.
I would say this:
1) It is illegal to install a firmware update for WinCE devices, unless they are provided from the device manufacturer. The reason is that the manufacturer has to pay for this update (or have an agreement with Microsoft).
2) The end-user cannot purchase the firmware directly from Microsoft. One of the invoked reasons being that the firmware needs drivers and adaptation to the device. This is done by the manufacturer.
3) Often, Microsoft actually provides the update free of charge to the manufacturer, but he does not pass it on to the end-user, because he does not want to spend money and resources in adapting the firmware for the device - he prefers to sell new devices.
4) This means that often the fault is NOT with Microsoft but with the manufacturer! In this case, HTC.
5) Regarding the unofficial firmware updates, an intersting situation arises:
a) Microsoft does not really care, if you install the unofficial, newer, firmware, as it was available for the manufacturer anyway.
b) The manufacturer does not really care, as he is not interested in the already sold devices. If you break it due to upgrading with unofficial firmware - even better: you just lost warranty.
The proof is that this site still exists...
6) Conclusion:
a) Nothing legal will happen to you, if you install an unofficial firmware.
b) You will void warranty.
c) You should not sell or advertise your device with an unoffical firmware. Downgrade it to an official firmware before doing so.
d) Read all documentations before starting an upgrade - you will be on your own, if things go wrong (it is easy, once you know what to do).
Cheers,
vma
I promised myself show how Samsung treats its and how they assume responsibilities.
More here:
Samsung Galaxy S I9000 blog
Samsung Galaxy S I9000 Facebook Page
The main ideea is that i am a lucky owner of a phone that comes from a batch that was released on the market with manufacturing errors.
Other owner with same problem found out:
Finally they(samsung) informed us that the display needs to be replaced. This means the front panel in totality will be replaced. I hope to get it back in a couple
of days. The way they were handling the phone i am worried if i will get it back in acceptable condition. It has been a really traumatic experience. They informed me it was a manufacturing defect and there seems to be a batch which might have this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After x time the displays of these phones coming from that batch lose color depth and increase brightness, the overall image quality being shattered to pieces.
To be shure my phone had this particular problem, i tried everything from the software point of view that could be done : changed to stock android, tried different custom roms, even the ones with voodoo color fixes, factory reset (of course) but nothing.
I was shure then i had that problem as the owner above and i brought it to service (i just bought the phone in november 2010). I did not know i had to put the original android from samsung, so i got a phone call the next day from samsung service, being told that i voided my warranty and i should pay 350 dolars to fix it.
I understand that rules are rules and that it says that if you use other than original samsung software you void the warranty, but they know, and i know that this is a production fault having NOTHING to do with the software .
The main ideea is the phone comes from a batch with manufacturing defects and they SHOULD asume responsability.
Don`t get me wrong, i loved this phone and Android, but the way samsung deals with this problem is outrageous and i must "be heard" .
I hope your phones do not come from that batch.
Thank you & happy flasing,
Dan Gheorghe
bbluee:
You wrote that You have master degree in computer science
BUT IT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING...
were were you living last years?
you were smart enough to flash new firmware but you failed with ensuring your own security and comfort as a common customer, poor you
I can bet that almost everybody on xda do know that before sending broken device (ANY device!!!) to ANY service the most secure way is to ensure it has system and enhancements oficially supported by manufacturer.
Greetings!
V.
voriax said:
bbluee:
You wrote that You have master degree in computer science
BUT IT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING...
were were you living last years?
you were smart enough to flash new firmware but you failed with ensuring your own security and comfort as a common customer, poor you
I can bet that almost everybody on xda do know that before sending broken device (ANY device!!!) to ANY service the most secure way is to ensure it has system and enhancements oficially supported by manufacturer.
Greetings!
V.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know i did not have the "best" approach, and if any other given problem they could be right.
I did not want to brag with the degree, only to point out that i know i didn`t do anything to get the phone to have that display problem, and the fact that i know that the software in this case HAS NOTHING to do with the fact this product comes from a batch with manufacturing defects.
I know that here on xda, are people with far more android and phones knowledge than i have.
And you just gave up? This post looks like garbage to me.
"It is like i buy a laptop with windows 7 and i have a hardware problem , take it into service with a linux operating system and they say the warranty was voided." is NOTHING like modifying phone firmware. Samsung doesn't provide you with the tools to flash 3rd party firmware to your phone - if you used ODIN, you used STOLEN Samsung software.
Masters degree in computer science - lol, read the book, "overschooled but undereducated." When sending back a product for warranty service, you re-install all stock firmware; that's pretty basic knowledge.
Sounds like you're bad mouthing Samsung for something that is your fault. Personally, I wouldn't have taken it sitting down; they definitely should fix it, and making a stupid blog post to spout non-sense is just silly - demand they fix it, and know your rights under the law before you do.
phzi said:
And you just gave up? This post looks like garbage to me.
"It is like i buy a laptop with windows 7 and i have a hardware problem , take it into service with a linux operating system and they say the warranty was voided." is NOTHING like modifying phone firmware. Samsung doesn't provide you with the tools to flash 3rd party firmware to your phone - if you used ODIN, you used STOLEN Samsung software.
Masters degree in computer science - lol, read the book, "overschooled but undereducated." When sending back a product for warranty service, you re-install all stock firmware; that's pretty basic knowledge.
Sounds like you're bad mouthing Samsung for something that is your fault. Personally, I wouldn't have taken it sitting down; they definitely should fix it, and making a stupid blog post to spout non-sense is just silly - demand they fix it, and know your rights under the law before you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, ok... Stop throwing rocks men ) . I said i know i have mistaken in not flashing the phone with the original firmware. Again i did not want to sound cocky in the first post.
Please excuse me if i did.
I just wanted to say i know that what i did, had nothing to do with the display problem.
Was it my fault i bought a product from a batch with manufacturing defects?
Thank you for your feedback.
http://tl.gd/drbuch
(cue Chef Excellence music sting)
Sent from Remilla, my stock ASUS Transformer
That's "excellent"
It sounds like a baby about to "make" in his diaper.
QQ moar
10chars
chatch15117 said:
QQ moar
10chars
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you want to know how old I am....?
I had to google the urban dictionary to find out what that meant!
HAHA Love that website i sit there and press random learn new words lol
A rant for sure. Not sure if it's excellent.
It's an idiots rant. Listen, companies want to keep people from rooting and putting on their own ROMs because ultimately there will always be some knucklehead out their that bricks their device or burns out their CPU because they overclocked their 1Ghz processor to 5Ghz and then they have the nerve to expect a company to cover it under warranty.
Honestly, if I developed a hardware product, I would want to make it as tamper proof as possible for that very reason. Yet, I can also understand the desire to be able to do what you want with your device when you buy it. So what is the solution? Something similar to what HTC has done with the Evo 3D where they will unlock the bootloader, but you lose your right to your warranty. I consider that a fair exchange personally, and I understand the reason why.
ExploreMN said:
It's an idiots rant. Listen, companies want to keep people from rooting and putting on their own ROMs because ultimately there will always be some knucklehead out their that bricks their device or burns out their CPU because they overclocked their 1Ghz processor to 5Ghz and then they have the nerve to expect a company to cover it under warranty.
Honestly, if I developed a hardware product, I would want to make it as tamper proof as possible for that very reason. Yet, I can also understand the desire to be able to do what you want with your device when you buy it. So what is the solution? Something similar to what HTC has done with the Evo 3D where they will unlock the bootloader, but you lose your right to your warranty. I consider that a fair exchange personally, and I understand the reason why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exaaaaactly. You want root? Fine. Here. Your warranty is forever void now.
ExploreMN said:
It's an idiots rant. Listen, companies want to keep people from rooting and putting on their own ROMs because ultimately there will always be some knucklehead out their that bricks their device or burns out their CPU because they overclocked their 1Ghz processor to 5Ghz and then they have the nerve to expect a company to cover it under warranty.
Honestly, if I developed a hardware product, I would want to make it as tamper proof as possible for that very reason. Yet, I can also understand the desire to be able to do what you want with your device when you buy it. So what is the solution? Something similar to what HTC has done with the Evo 3D where they will unlock the bootloader, but you lose your right to your warranty. I consider that a fair exchange personally, and I understand the reason why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in mixed minds about the whole thing really. PC manufacturers don't feel the need to lock down computers as much as phones are. The more locked down something is the more likely someone trying to avoid locks will screw things up.
The "secure boot" sub-rant is actually more pressing than the TF rant. I expect "mobile" devices to be locked down, and half the fun of playing with them is giving the company the finger and voiding the warranty.
Messing with my PC so that I can't install whatever OS I want on it is going too far, though. As far as I can tell, "secure boot" is either a way to force every Linux distro to pay for a signed cryptographic certificate in order to be installed on a "secure boot" PC, or a way to utterly disallow anything other than Windows8 to be installed on that PC.
Personally I wish that even PC's were like Android devices, but with the freedom to erase Windows and install *BSD or Linux at will retained .
In my experience the most troublesome majority of Windows users are too incompetent to have the equal of root access to their own machine, except to make more work for people that want to fix or break their machine. So I am in favour of the idea, sure...here's your Windows 9 PC, then charge an unlocking fee to enable making an Administrator account that can be accessed by the purchaser instead of Microsoft Update. Then we could just make extra money off whiny snots complaining none of their NOT NT ready crapware works any more, and remind them that the warrentee is void .
There's no substitute for inteligence. Stupid tax ftw!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
To all:
The Twitter post that I originally made was to let off some stream that I had with ASUS locking down the Transformer with no official way to unlock the device. I mean, rooting/unlocking is risky, but in responsible hands, it's no big deal. Yes, I see your points about the TF being a mobile device, not as a netbook, and that it should be locked by default, but I use it like a netbook, and I think it's pretty reasonable for it to be considered one, but I agree that newbies should not be tampering with the clock speed of the device, just too risky.
The main point of the post was: Why didn't ASUS provide a official way to unlock devices? They should either follow HTC and provide unlocking via a website, or just let me use "fastboot oem unlock".
Oh, and why are no HTC AT&T phones unlockable via htcdev.com?
Sent from Sukia, my rooted HTC Inspire.
Since it is pretty clear that Samsung is not going to honor warranty service on knox tripped devices, I'm wondering of they will still fix them for a fee.
Why am I wondering? I'm curious if they can reset knox at the factory. If so, it means we can reset knox ourselves. I'm an electrical engineer and am looking into a hardware modification that would render knox useless.
In non technical terms, it would be similar to bypassing a blown fuse in your car with a piece of metal in place of the burnt fuse.
It is extremely possible, depending on the efuse they use. It's hard for me to imagine they would install the efuse in such a way that even they would be unable to reverse it.
Efuses are not new technology, and their main purpose is to act in a very simiar way to standard circuit breaker. And just like a tripped breaker, they can be reset. Its simply a matter of what type they used, and how it was implemented
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
Since it is pretty clear that Samsung is not going to honor warranty service on knox tripped devices, I'm wondering of they will still fix them for a fee.
Why am I wondering? I'm curious if they can reset knox at the factory. If so, it means we can reset knox ourselves. I'm an electrical engineer and am looking into a hardware modification that would render knox useless.
In non technical terms, it would be similar to bypassing a blown fuse in your car with a piece of metal in place of the burnt fuse.
It is extremely possible, depending on the efuse they use. It's hard for me to imagine they would install the efuse in such a way that even they would be unable to reverse it.
Efuses are not new technology, and their main purpose is to act in a very simiar way to standard circuit breaker. And just like a tripped breaker, they can be reset. Its simply a matter of what type they used, and how it was implemented
Yea its possible with a unlocked boot loader cause removing knox itself from the system is not hard but that counter is in the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jparasita said:
Yea its possible with a unlocked boot loader cause removing knox itself from the system is not hard but that counter is in the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it truly is an efuse, they are physically blown transistors due to intentional electromigration , inhibiting electron flow through the channel, basically, preventing the gate from allowing electron flow through the channel.
however, if the efuse is an external chip (most of them are, it would be added to the motherboard, just like ram, wifi chip, wacom digitizer.. etc) then that chip will either have a reset (by applying voltage to the latch) or can be bypassed physically (pulled up to Vcc).
In this case, an unlocked boot loader would not be able to bypass the blown fuse link. It may, however, be able to forgo checking the status of the efuse, but I really don't know know how its all assembled, since getting a datasheet on the board from samsung would be impossible. The only hope I have as an engineer is to examine the board and attempt to find the location of the fuse.
Here is some efuse Education:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
You may want to read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2561658
So it seems as if there is some misinformation running around on all ends. Seems logical to me to go with the Samsung knox website, where they say that hardware warranty is separate from knox warranty.
I'm going to email samsung and try to get a straight answer. I'll setup a claim for my device. I'll say it has a bad home button or something silly, then mention the knox bit is tripped. The 2 are totally unrelated, so seems like a good test.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
So it seems as if there is some misinformation running around on all ends. Seems logical to me to go with the Samsung knox website, where they say that hardware warranty is separate from knox warranty.
I'm going to email samsung and try to get a straight answer. I'll setup a claim for my device. I'll say it has a bad home button or something silly, then mention the knox bit is tripped. The 2 are totally unrelated, so seems like a good test.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be intesting to follow. Looking forward to see what happens.
An efuse is not like a standard circuit breaker at all. It is like a regular fuse. Circuit breakers are designed to be reset. They are not permanently physically modified in any way when tripped. Efuses and fuses, on the other hand, are physically burned when they are tripped, and cannot be reverted.
As far as being on a separate chip: I highly doubt this to be the case. First, to minimize power consumption no one wants to drive an extra package. Second, virtually all SoC designs incorporate an efuse bank somewhere on their chip. Though I could be wrong on this point, as there could be incentive to include them off-SoC if device remanufacturing (read: refurbishing) is a significant source of revenue for the OEM.
Source: I am a SoC design engineer for an industry outside the mobile personal electronics sector, and they are pretty much commonplace in every SoC made in at least the last 5+ years.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
flinttownbrown said:
An efuse is not like a standard circuit breaker at all. It is like a regular fuse. Circuit breakers are designed to be reset. They are not permanently physically modified in any way when tripped. Efuses and fuses, on the other hand, are physically burned when they are tripped, and cannot be reverted.
As far as being on a separate chip: I highly doubt this to be the case. First, to minimize power consumption no one wants to drive an extra package. Second, virtually all SoC designs incorporate an efuse bank somewhere on their chip. Though I could be wrong on this point, as there could be incentive to include them off-SoC if device remanufacturing (read: refurbishing) is a significant source of revenue for the OEM.
Source: I am a SoC design engineer for an industry outside the mobile personal electronics sector, and they are pretty much commonplace in every SoC made in at least the last 5+ years.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right, but my assumption is that they are not using SoC efuse's. If this were the case, they would be forced to toss boards with blown fuses. Since their goal with the efuse is not to prevent damage, but to indicate intrusuon, a way to "reset" the fuse would seem preferable.
We use several efuse's that are circuit breaker style, and not fuse.
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/content.do?id=17031
Just one several. These can be added to any design for protection, but could also be used in this application. Once tripped they would stay tripped until reset. If the reset pin is left unused, then it can only be reset exrernally, which I suspect is the case.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
I actually contacted Samsung Canada to know if tripping Knox voids hardware warranty. This is the response I got:
Dear XXXXXX,
Thank you for contacting Samsung Customer Care.
After going through the email, we understand that you want to know if rooting voids the warranty.
I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.
I need to inform you, rooting of device will void standard manufacture's warranty.
Click on the below weblink for details about Samsung products warranty info :
http://bit.ly/1d1MfW4
For details about Knox, please contact our dedicated support for Knox at +1 855 567 5669 for further assistance.
We hope we’ve answered your inquiry. Please let us know if there are any additional questions or concerns.
You can also visit our How To & FAQ >section on the website for more product information.
We deeply value your loyalty to Samsung and are committed to provide you with the highest level of customer
service. If for any reason theinformation we provided did not resolve your issue, we have various
contact channels that are available to assist in resolving your concern
For immediate assistance with a live agent, you can chat with us here
For support by phone, you can reach us at 1-800-SAMSUNG(726-7864)
Samsung’s Social Media Team is available to assist with providing up-to-date information or answering questions.
Visit us on Facebook
Visit us on Twitter
Thank you for being a Samsung Customer!
Kind Regards,
Sandy
Samsung Customer Care
http://www.samsung.com/ca
Our goal is to provide our customers with the best customer service possible. Please complete the following customer service survey based on customer experience with your agent.
Your feedback will enable us to see how we're doing overall and find out how we can improve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't really seem like they understood the question, but whatever. Guess I'll avoid rooting until someone figures out a 0x0 method, if at all. Its weird because people in the S4 forum asked the same thing about Knox and warranty and Samsung's response was that the phone should still retain hardware warranty.
i just wanted to note that samsung will still cover hardware defects if you use knox.
smac7 said:
i just wanted to note that samsung will still cover hardware defects if you use knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source of your sentence?
It depends on which defects they are... and the proof that the issue is related to factory defects is on your charge...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
francanna said:
Source of your sentence?
It depends on which defects they are... and the proof that the issue is related to factory defects is on your charge...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
transcript from my conversation.
General Info
Chat start time Oct 9, 2013 6:59:14 PM EST
Chat end time Oct 9, 2013 7:10:06 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:10:51
Operator Vivian C
Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
info: All Samsung Agents are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A Samsung Agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Vivian C'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK111790932073X
Vivian C: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
shane: Hi.
shane: i have a question in regards to warrenty on the new galaxy note 10.1
Vivian C: Hi, please go ahead with the query?
shane: I understand that rooting will void the warranty for software issues and anything related to rooting, but does it also void it for issues such as a broken power button or a physical problem with the screen.
shane: Basically, are hardware issues unrelated to root still covered?
Vivian C: Yes, they are covered but no physical damages to the unit.
Vivian C: I can understand how important this is to you.
shane: so you mean as long as it doesn't appear to be the consumers fault (drops for example) then its fine?
Vivian C: I could certainly relate to what you are going through as I am a consumer myself.
Vivian C: The hardware issues are covered if it is under warranty.
shane: ok thank you for the info. that's all i wanted to know before i went through with my purchase
Vivian C: I appreciate the patience you displayed while we worked together on this issue.
Vivian C: Thank you for chatting with us. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
smac7 said:
transcript from my conversation.
General Info
Chat start time Oct 9, 2013 6:59:14 PM EST
Chat end time Oct 9, 2013 7:10:06 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:10:51
Operator Vivian C
Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
info: All Samsung Agents are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A Samsung Agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Vivian C'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK111790932073X
Vivian C: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
shane: Hi.
shane: i have a question in regards to warrenty on the new galaxy note 10.1
Vivian C: Hi, please go ahead with the query?
shane: I understand that rooting will void the warranty for software issues and anything related to rooting, but does it also void it for issues such as a broken power button or a physical problem with the screen.
shane: Basically, are hardware issues unrelated to root still covered?
Vivian C: Yes, they are covered but no physical damages to the unit.
Vivian C: I can understand how important this is to you.
shane: so you mean as long as it doesn't appear to be the consumers fault (drops for example) then its fine?
Vivian C: I could certainly relate to what you are going through as I am a consumer myself.
Vivian C: The hardware issues are covered if it is under warranty.
shane: ok thank you for the info. that's all i wanted to know before i went through with my purchase
Vivian C: I appreciate the patience you displayed while we worked together on this issue.
Vivian C: Thank you for chatting with us. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all and nothing. Samsung VP told in knox website that warranty policies may be different country by country. In general it is true what I said before. You are supposed to prove that the defect is non software related. E.G. zif your screen stops working or you experience motherboard issues, Samsung may say it depends on overclock or other root related stuff.
So what remains you is just power button failure...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
^ Nice, I should follow up with Samsung Canada through live chat because at the very least this gives me a bit more confidence to root without having any hardware warranty concerns. However I wonder if they can still refuse warranty "just because" even though it may have been confirmed by their online agents.
I am left wondering how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, and all the case law that led to it's enactment, would relate to Samsung's apparent unwillingness to honor a warranty claim related to hardware issues on a rooted (modified) device when Samsung is unable to show that the rooting of the device was the direct cause of the hardware failure.
I think it is time that a group of consumers tripped the Knox counter on their devices by rooting, and sent them in to Samsung for a hardware related repair such as a bad home button or a screen failure and then see if Samsung will honor the warranty or deny the claim solely based on said tripped Knox counter.
If Samsung denies the claim without showing just cause, the group could then show harm and either file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (here in the US) or they could file a class action law suit against Samsung if they could find an attorney(s) stupid enough to do it.
There is nothing in the Samsung Terms of Service that precludes class actions as AT&T does.
JACK4HIRE said:
I am left wondering how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, and all the case law that led to it's enactment, would relate to Samsung's apparent unwillingness to honor a warranty claim related to hardware issues on a rooted (modified) device when Samsung is unable to show that the rooting of the device was the direct cause of the hardware failure.
I think it is time that a group of consumers tripped the Knox counter on their devices by rooting, and sent them in to Samsung for a hardware related repair such as a bad home button or a screen failure and then see if Samsung will honor the warranty or deny the claim solely based on said tripped Knox counter.
If Samsung denies the claim without showing just cause, the group could then show harm and either file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (here in the US) or they could file a class action law suit against Samsung if they could find an attorney(s) stupid enough to do it.
There is nothing in the Samsung Terms of Service that precludes class actions as AT&T does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People, it will be exactely as it has been so far: do you remember that Samsung has put a modified device counter in its device for years? What happens to you warranty today if you root a Galaxy S2 and do not use CF Triangle Away?
Some hardware issues have been passed under warranty, some others not.
Some display failures may depend on kernel settings; motherboard issues may depend on voltage and frequencies that are kernel related. Be sure this will not covered.
Hardware buttons are not sw related and will be repaired.
But who wants to keep a warranty limited to 3 hw buttons?
francanna said:
People, it will be exactely as it has been so far: do you remember that Samsung has put a modified device counter in its device for years? What happens to you warranty today if you root a Galaxy S2 and do not use CF Triangle Away?
Some hardware issues have been passed under warranty, some others not.
Some display failures may depend on kernel settings; motherboard issues may depend on voltage and frequencies that are kernel related. Be sure this will not covered.
Hardware buttons are not sw related and will be repaired.
But who wants to keep a warranty limited to 3 hw buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that we do not have custom kernels, all root has given us is apps like titanium, and other root style apps. We can't modify any voltage settings, or anything that could damage the device. Need a kernel for that.
The only thing you could do right now is flash bad firmware, and brick. But that's possible with or with out root. Any time you flash firmware there is a possibility of bricking. Seems illogical that just because I can use titanium backup and xposed, means a failed update from mk1 to ml1 would be the fault of root. They are not even related. That's like saying installing a new stereo in my car caused the engine to blow a headgasket.
Remember, root only affects the running and booted operating system. Once you are in recovery, or download mode.. root has nothing to do with it. just like in windows. When you install a windows program, if you shutdown and boot to bios.. that program doesn't exist as far as the computer is concerned. Only after it has booted the main hard drive and read the proper master boot record, and loads windows does that program exist.
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Serinety said:
Given that we do not have custom kernels, all root has given us is apps like titanium, and other root style apps. We can't modify any voltage settings, or anything that could damage the device. Need a kernel for that.
The only thing you could do right now is flash bad firmware, and brick. But that's possible with or with out root. Any time you flash firmware there is a possibility of bricking. Seems illogical that just because I can use titanium backup and xposed, means a failed update from mk1 to ml1 would be the fault of root. They are not even related. That's like saying installing a new stereo in my car caused the engine to blow a headgasket.
Remember, root only affects the running and booted operating system. Once you are in recovery, or download mode.. root has nothing to do with it. just like in windows. When you install a windows program, if you shutdown and boot to bios.. that program doesn't exist as far as the computer is concerned. Only after it has booted the main hard drive and read the proper master boot record, and loads windows does that program exist.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
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You are right, BUT...
Today we have no custom kernel on Note 2014, but as soon as Samsung releases the source code we will have. For Note 3 custom kernels do exist.
So, generally speaking, I may root the phone, flash a custom kernel and, in case of disaster, restore stock kernel.
That is why even a simple root is considered non samsung system modification... and Knox activates the efuse in case of any non samsung system modification because it needs the system to be perfectly integer and Samsung certified for business reasons (BYOD strategies).
Finally: no root means no kernel no rom... no problem for Samsung.
I am not justifying Samsung. Only trying to explain their logic.
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francanna said:
You are right, BUT...
Today we have no custom kernel on Note 2014, but as soon as Samsung releases the source code we will have. For Note 3 custom kernels do exist.
So, generally speaking, I may root the phone, flash a custom kernel and, in case of disaster, restore stock kernel.
That is why even a simple root is considered non samsung system modification... and Knox activates the efuse in case of any non samsung system modification because it needs the system to be perfectly integer and Samsung certified for business reasons (BYOD strategies).
Finally: no root means no kernel no rom... no problem for Samsung.
I am not justifying Samsung. Only trying to explain their logic.
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk
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True, although they should make a business version and a consumer version. But......like THAT would ever happen lol. Seems silly to force business solutions onto a consumer, non business customer experience. I assume samsung is going to be pushing knox into all their new devices.. which kinda blows the whole "for business" slogan of knox. I have to think , not many samsung smartphone/tablets are used in a Purley business application.
Ahh...such is life. If they can make it, we can break it....
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Serinety said:
True, although they should make a business version and a consumer version. But......like THAT would ever happen lol. Seems silly to force business solutions onto a consumer, non business customer experience. I assume samsung is going to be pushing knox into all their new devices.. which kinda blows the whole "for business" slogan of knox. I have to think , not many samsung smartphone/tablets are used in a Purley business application.
Ahh...such is life. If they can make it, we can break it....
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
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As you know Blackberry is almost out of the market and Windows Phone has not such a great appeal. That is a huge oppotunity for Samsung, but they have to face Android bad reputation as an "unsecure" system.
That is the main reason for Knox.
"Security" and "data integrity" are marketing messages they decided to spend also in consumer market... although we know that most of people would not need neither use Knox.
Moreover Samsung well knows that modders are only a very small part of the consumer universe. Although Samsung NEEDS modder's community.
My note: IMHO Android security problems are NOT directly related to rooting... on the contrary, rooting (URDLV, for example) would use system exploits... but it is true that having a rooted device increases the possibilities of possible security issues for un-aware people.
People still think that rooting is required for having "cracked applications" and things link that.