Database Users

Who Should Root their Phones?

I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?

mjb5406 said:
I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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Click to collapse
I think only people who are comfortable rooting should root.
The warranty is null and void if you root the phone.

mjb5406 said:
So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
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Click to collapse
Is it wise? That depends on the user deciding if he/she should root. Should they be given the same opportunity as someone that's more tech savvy than the average user? Sure, why not. Android encourages users to fully customize there devices, if that means getting one's hand dirty to get the most of your phone, then give it go. However, if the end user is afraid about "bricking" or "voiding" there warranty; then it's probably best they stick with the factory defaults.
At the end of the day; it's the user's choice. Rooting of course allows one to get the maximum potential out of the phone, non-rooting allows for a decent experience. However, it's quite obvious that once someone see's the many wonderful things that comes with rooting; they too are often enticed and decide to take the plunge. Which, ultimately is a good thing; they're able to join a community like XDA, learn new things about there device and about computers/hacking that they thought they never could, and of course, they now get to enjoy the benefits of rooting.
mjb5406 said:
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is, even Sprint employees root there phones, so at the end of the day, its comes down to the sales/tech person at your local Sprint store. People on here have said that if your phone is broken and you take it in to get it serviced without flashing the Sprint RUU that Sprint will say you've voided your warranty because they can't work with the "modified" phone (e.g. rooted, etc).
However, this is relative from person to person and from store to store. Like I said, pending on the Sprint rep/tech -- they can choose to service your "modified" phone or tell you that you've voided your warranty and that they won't help you. Of course; to remedy this, you just need to go home; flash the latest Sprint RUU and go back to the store -- then they can't complain.
So, if you're worried about voiding your warrenty or that Sprint will freak out, flash the latest RUU before going into your local Sprint store... if you have a good rapport with your Sprint reps/techs, it shouldn't matter if you're phones rooted or not though.

You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?

Powers16 said:
You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?
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Click to collapse
No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.

mjb5406 said:
No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.
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This is completely true. There are a LOT of people on here who do things without reading or thinking. I think it was when the Hero dropped in price. Everyone bought it, they started googling it, they found XDA, and started posting left and right. I got my Hero the day it came out, but I didn't root it until January 2010. I was a little hesitant and scared, but I did it.... and I'm glad I did.

A Discussion with Google??

I want to start this discussion because I haven't seen it anywhere and I read several Android forums. I love the platform and it's "openess" but it seems that requirements from Google fall just short of making this the best platform ever for handsets.
We are all screaming at Motorola about the signed bl but we aren't focusing enough on the greater issue. The Android license from Google seems to allow this or maybe it is less specific to Google than to some other entity but I don't speak lawyerese so i'm not sure. Anyway, here is what I keep reading from Motorola...
"The use of open source software, such as the Linux kernel or the Android platform, in a consumer device does not require the handset running such software to be open for re-flashing. We comply with the licenses, including GPLv2, for each of the open source packages in our handsets"
My point of discussion is this, why aren't we asking Google what they can do? Why can't Google simply state that "we will not allow our software to be damaged in this way"? Why do they allow Verizon, at&t, Motorola, HTC or anyone else manipulate their software in a way that brings so much resentment? Is it not in Google's best interest to force this platform to remain open? I realize this is a double edged sword because open means people can do what they want, which holds true for companies also but I think that everyone realizes that Google's intent was that this would benefit everyone, not just the companies.
Also, everyone seems to forget that HTC is messing around with trying to lock down the NAND. Just because geniuses get past the protection doesn't mean that HTC isn't trying. If the Droid X is a huge success, even with this restriction in place, then what makes any of you think that the rest will not follow suit?

Because open means that you can do whatever you want with it. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it, modifying it for their own uses, and putting it in any device that would support it. That's why a company can strip down all of Google stuff from it and put Bing if they want to, and Google wouldn't be able to complain. The whole point of open and free software is that you compete by actually being the best at something. You keep Google stuff in Android because well, they work best.
Now, when you put Android in a device you manufacture, you do have the rights to do whatever you want with the device. This seems to be a hardware protection on top of the software ones. You know how DRM'd mp3 stop working? well, it's not much different, except that now there is physical damage.
True, these measures defeat the whole purpose of being open, but what the heck. Being truly open means making a great product, and then not complaining when someone grabs it and beats you with it. You have are always competing to deliver the best product, and that's why open is awesome.
Who was it that said: "I can't agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Open goes both ways. The company (Motorola) has every right to lock down the bootloader and prevent others from flashing.
You guys are looking at it as if Motorola did this to prevent people from flashing custom roms. The real reason they did it was to prevent others from stealing their rom and porting it to another phone. If you like the "ninjablur" UI, you need to buy the DroidX.

Ryan Frawley said:
Open goes both ways. The company (Motorola) has every right to lock down the bootloader and prevent others from flashing.
You guys are looking at it as if Motorola did this to prevent people from flashing custom roms. The real reason they did it was to prevent others from stealing their rom and porting it to another phone. If you like the "ninjablur" UI, you need to buy the DroidX.
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Actually, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure one could extract those widgets if you really wanted to. (They "Ain't all that" if you ask me. - And yes, I did buy an X yesterday and love it. Just ain't crazy about those widgets).
I think the real reason this is locked down is to prevent custom ROM/Root access to enable tethering. There are other issues I'm sure, but at the top of the list is to protect that revenue Big Red is trying to generate.
As to Google 'Stopping' the carriers from locking this down, please understand that if the carriers can't protect their revenue streams, they simply won't allow the phones on their network, and that would hinder the growth of the OS in general.
Don't take any of my words as endorsement of VZW/Moto actions. I'll be first in line to flash/root my phone when/if its ever possible. I'm just a realist. VZW wants $20/month for WiFi Tether. They are going to do as much as reasonably possible to keep you from doing that for free.
In a related note, 2.2 Froyo does tethering natively. I expect this to be crippled/disabled when we get our update in a couple of months.

I don't agree with the idea that companies would stop supporting the platform. The Droid has been a cash cow for verizon and it is an open book. Google could easily ask that their platform remain open for all to enjoy.
Beyond that, if Google allows them to gimp their OS then Google has created something entirely for the benefit of companies and not at all for the general population. I don't believe this is true. I think that the changes will start with Android v3.0. Google will start getting more pissy about custom crap especially if it makes their product seem worse and increase the chance that Android will be looked upon negatively.

Despiadado1 said:
I don't agree with the idea that companies would stop supporting the platform. The Droid has been a cash cow for verizon and it is an open book. Google could easily ask that their platform remain open for all to enjoy.
Beyond that, if Google allows them to gimp their OS then Google has created something entirely for the benefit of companies and not at all for the general population. I don't believe this is true. I think that the changes will start with Android v3.0. Google will start getting more pissy about custom crap especially if it makes their product seem worse and increase the chance that Android will be looked upon negatively.
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Its the same problem with windows, the OS gets blamed for what hardware vendors do to it... we see this $400 computers getting compared to Apples $1500+ computers and thats some how proof windows sucks, I never had problems with Vista being slow, but people and there $400 computer did.
The problem with Android, specifically the scrolling smoothness, is the vendors custom Android OS setups...

FtL1776 said:
Its the same problem with windows, the OS gets blamed for what hardware vendors do to it... we see this $400 computers getting compared to Apples $1500+ computers and thats some how proof windows sucks, I never had problems with Vista being slow, but people and there $400 computer did.
The problem with Android, specifically the scrolling smoothness, is the vendors custom Android OS setups...
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Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the scrolling smoothness is half crappy hardware and half Android's lack of hardware acceleration.

Mikerrrrrrrr said:
To be fair, I think the scrolling smoothness is half crappy hardware and half Android's lack of hardware acceleration.
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No some custom roms fix those issues because they enable the hardware acceleration, which again shows that Google really should crack down on some of these custom versions of Android on phones.

Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Actually, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure one could extract those widgets if you really wanted to. (They "Ain't all that" if you ask me. - And yes, I did buy an X yesterday and love it. Just ain't crazy about those widgets).
I think the real reason this is locked down is to prevent custom ROM/Root access to enable tethering. There are other issues I'm sure, but at the top of the list is to protect that revenue Big Red is trying to generate.
As to Google 'Stopping' the carriers from locking this down, please understand that if the carriers can't protect their revenue streams, they simply won't allow the phones on their network, and that would hinder the growth of the OS in general.
Don't take any of my words as endorsement of VZW/Moto actions. I'll be first in line to flash/root my phone when/if its ever possible. I'm just a realist. VZW wants $20/month for WiFi Tether. They are going to do as much as reasonably possible to keep you from doing that for free.
In a related note, 2.2 Froyo does tethering natively. I expect this to be crippled/disabled when we get our update in a couple of months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motorola has said so itself. The reason Droid X is locked down is because they don't want people stealing their custom UI. Widgets are only part of this UI. The inability to flash custom roms is merely a consequence of protecting their UI.

FtL1776 said:
No some custom roms fix those issues because they enable the hardware acceleration, which again shows that Google really should crack down on some of these custom versions of Android on phones.
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Click to collapse
Ah. Didn't know that.

"Allow me to root" Petition

Hi all!
I'll take it down if needed but I was wondering if such a petition is worth to do:
www(dot)change(dot)org/petitions/asustek-computers-open-nvflash-apx-and-allow-rooting-of-tablet (hmmm, still can't post links, oh well)
As said, there's been work done, but it could actually bring some fresh air to everyone if ASUS decided to get their butts off of the seat and stop the lock&run game because people will get exhausted.
Plus I honestly believe that the more they lock it, the more they're gonna cut themselves from the non-ignorable proportion of people who want at least the freedom to be able to tweak things.
After all, you can do it with almost everything around, even in high-tech.
(tw.asus.com is hard to reach and asus.com is ooo, If anyone have a good email address to submit for the petitioners, I'll take it )
Any thoughts? (or any mistakes on the petition to point out? English not being my native language)
Thx

I don't think this would be very successful. Asus has both a right and a reason not to allow root access. For one, you always have those knuckleheads out there who would love to try and overclock their processor to 6Ghz just to see if they can do it and then they would expect Asus to provide warranty coverage. Not to mention those who brick their device, etc.
There may also be other issues we don't even know about. Perhaps Netflix and other DRM or secure based apps would claim this is a violation of their agreements and pull support which, in the long run, isn't worth it for Asus because only a small minority of people do things like rooting, etc.
Anyway, as much as I like to have root and cool ROMs like Cyanogen, I wouldn't sign this petition even if I thought it would go somewhere. I just feel that, in the end, it would raise the price of the product so they could cover those people mentioned in paragraph 1.

I totally get your points.
This is why it can be proposed, as HTC does, on the counterpart of losing part or all of warranty coverage for misuse.
I didn't think of DRM support initially as the services mentioned aren't available out of the US anyways, but still, does HTC have such a partnership? (They do mention the potential loss of DRM protected content access)...
But you're right at the same time, I just feel trapped with a TF101G/B80 which I'd just like a few extra functionality that many others are playing with *shrugs* I still do believe that opening the device a bit more can help it's success, but maybe that's me being naive.

Can't say I worry about the 6Ghz OC type of problem domain, because if someone does that and expects warrety coverage they obviously have larger problems for our culture. I'd also say it's fair to just write in the warentee, "VOID IF ROOTED OR TAMPERED WITH", and adapt the definitions in legalise or simple English suitably. And then point to that when someone does something stupid: You seriously voided your warentee pal.
What is a serious issue to think about is issues like the Netflix example. That is one that could have many and far reaching implecations, both for the device and the platform if it becomes the norm. It's also sth I have never thought about. Perhaps because of how I view the whole DRM thing.
e.g. you can't let me play your game on my PC *and* stop my neighbore from pirating it, unless you can pretty much reduce it to a video stream with some interactivity instead of how contemporary games are done. It can be made harder but in the end, DRM can't provide the level of protection companies want.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Spidey01 said:
Can't say I worry about the 6Ghz OC type of problem domain, because if someone does that and expects warrety coverage they obviously have larger problems for our culture. I'd also say it's fair to just write in the warentee, "VOID IF ROOTED OR TAMPERED WITH", and adapt the definitions in legalise or simple English suitably. And then point to that when someone does something stupid: You seriously voided your warentee pal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's just it. It's not always possible for asus to tell if someone has tampered or rooted their device. This is the age of electronics. Tracks can very easily be covered. The knucklehead who tried to OC to 6ghz is probably also clever enough to cover his tracks and claims it just stopped working one day. The only way for asus to tell if the thing's been tampered with is if they spend the time, money, and resources to investigate, which in the end isn't even worth it.
In this case, I agree with Asus. I rooted mine from day one and has been doing some tweakings under the hood the last few months. That said, I don't think most people out there are up to it.

Taking it down.
Mixed feeling... I understand (though not agree with all) the mentionned points.
They could do it if they wanted.
And I doubt HTC raised the prices of their devices in allowing people to root it (and they cover their asses anyways, on repair coverage and loss of DRM's to avoid having to)
I'm simply gonna tag ASUS as being a bit lame, my only hope is some advancements on the SBK crackdown.
[Hint for NVidia: add a (false-positive proof) read-only max-temp-reached register accessible through APX, could help putting away some OC misuse]

I don't understand. Windows laptops are "rootable" and no one does any fuss about it. Why Transformer isn't? I won't buy another Asus tablet if I can't root it or change the OS if I want - I will look for other options (like HTC with their N-trig stylus). If they worry about OC they should state that rooting voids warranty. But I think the main problem for them is DRM which I don't even want on my device - if they made the device rootable probably Netflix and others would oppose it or sth (I don't know why - it's working on rooted device right now anyway).

ROOT and WARRANTY Samsung

A number of posters either dispute or are no sure of the warranty position regarding rooting in particular .
Fact one the phone provider who is usually responsible for the first twelve months warranty can most certainly reject warranty for non original firmware or rooting .In the UK i have checked the position with O2 and Vodaphone who say they will reject under terms of their warranty .
SAMSUNG own warranty which is also usually paid in the first twelve months to the seller/repairer .
Basically say exactly the same rooting or custom rom voids warranty .
The letter on Samfirmware for starters if you don't believe .
http://www.samfirmware.com/apps/blo...cs-?&fw_comments_page=2&fw_comments_order=ASC
Extract from other sources .
ROOTING:
• Corporate recently added an additional reason for an Android handset to be considered as Out-Of-Warranty.
• Android handsets that have been subject to “rooting”, “jailbreaking” or “hacking” are no longer covered under warranty and may be grounds for termination or modification of service.
• Rooting is a process that modifies a handsets software allowing access to services not supported or tested by the Carrier or OEM.
• While there are more applications out there that allow subscribers to gain root access, a specific example seen on a Samsung Galaxy Indulge is shown below.
• If you see this application on the handset, please explain that the handset is out of warranty and be certain to access the customer’s account and add a memo that the handset has been rooted.
The picture they posted of is super user and some other ones.
another source
The reason I'm posting this now is because Samsung have only this week implemented a system for Service Centres to check if the handset has been rooted.
Point is its very easy in most cases to unroot and flash a stock firmware .
Some service guys may well turn a blind eye to rooting others may not .No good saying some guy on XDA said it was ok .
User choice but i have seen enough to convince me 100% ROOT = VOID WARRANTY .
jje

I thought this was common knowledge anyway?

Coedy said:
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
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Yes but its recently been disputed by some so i just pulled out my notes .
jje

^ Some people just don't get it however and seem to think they're still entitled, even if they returned it to stock and reset the counter, etc...
Individual cases may vary, maybe you'll get a "mod friendly" warranty facility, but I wouldn't feel bad for someone who gets denied warranty in the least. If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.

True, i already expect that I'll void the warranty once i root my phone.. it's the point of no return..
I keep a safe distance on messing up my phone, make sure i don't get too far and ended up with a dummy display phone..
Sent from The Center of The Earth

mudferret said:
If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
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Click to collapse
Exactly. I would hope everyone would understand the risk before doing something like this.

How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?

This should be stickied with a tagline along the lines of:-
"Thinking of flashing a custom rom or kernel ? Consider this..."

I'm with Bell and I had a Rooted Atrix with cyanogenmod 7 beta 3 (back in the days..) and I had screens problems, I gave my phone to Bell and they send it to Motorola and it works flawlessly but they put me back on their motoscrap...
I'm sure Samsung will do the same thing
But thanks you anyways

harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
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Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.

Bam !
Beautifully put Zelendel Rooting/flashing (like throwing rocks) is all fun & games until someone gets hurt
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
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Click to collapse

harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
They are not going to look that far .
Boot screen Custom rom possible if doing the job check for root apps /root.
As i said a lot dont even bother and just flash stock rom and repair .
But a lot is not all .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

With the new popularity of rooting, checking these things are becoming standard. To be honest I am glad. It will make people think first before they follow a video on youtube that is normally made by someone that has no idea what they are doing other then following a simple how to.
Modding a device is not ment for everyone. Nor should everyone do it.

Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.

aloy99 said:
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
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Yeah they can terminate your contract if you mod your phone is anyway. Not to mention charging you the full price of the phone and the rest of the contract left over.
Main reason there are warnings all over the place about knowing and understanding what you are doing before you do it.

I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
You may not be entitled to a remedy if you:
damage or use goods in an unreasonable or unintended manner
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I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.

Im interested in what the laws are like in the EU.
However my own position on this is that one should be allowed to use any software and mods to software you want.
If there is a hardware malfunction they should fix it whatever software you chose to use. If you brick the bootloader they can JTAG it probably.
And this far i have never had anyone ever say anything about me using custom roms and the like.
However i would still like to know what the laws say.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

rako77 said:
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.

zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
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Good point.
Amazon repair service didn't use forensic software when I sent them a xperia Neo with the 0%-bug. They replaced it without much ado. Lucky me ;-)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

zelendel said:
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
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Click to collapse
rooting does not mess with the drivers and I am defiantly not touching the cpu clock.
The only reported case of a pc manufacturer that i can find refusing to remedy a hardware problem where the operating system was changed was pc world which later stated that was not there policy and would preform a repair. international law may be different but under Australian law I have full ownership of the device and I think it is outrageous that companies try and weasel there way out of their rights to the consumer.
In my mind if the fault is there's they have to fix it and no way should they be able to say otherwise. Its really just a matter of who has the burden of proof.

Locking off bootloaders

Can you really blame them? I wonder sometimes how many Android returns are due to user screw ups, just look at the kindle fire forums, every other thread is, "help I bricked my fire"
I know this is a dev forum, but it doesn't surprise me at all that manufacturers are making it tougher.
Discuss
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk

Shouldn't matter, we know the risks of modding our phones, we pay for our phones and a lot more than we should over the life of a contract and even with upgrade price, we own our phone and should be able to have the bootloaders unlocked.
-Sent from my Droid 2-

It will be great to get our devices with S-OFF and eng S-OFF in advance.
We will not spend so much time with rooting then

Lol, 98% of kindle fire "brick" threads aren't actually bricked.. Being a kindle owner myself, its actually just because the computer doesn't recognize the device when it is stuck at fastboot.. (Easy fix by uninstalling all adb drivers and letting windows find the driver when you plug the kindle fire back in) The symptoms are like brick because it only powers on and it stuck at the kindle fire logo until you change the bootmode via computer...

I can see it now...
Hi Google?
What can I help you with?
My 5 second Google search led me to believe I could flash my street fighter rom to my phone?
::face_palm::

The main problem about unlocking bootloaders is the user itself.
A lot of people are throwing themselves in unlocking, rooting etc etc without reading and pay attention to the warnings. So, if my neighbour can do it, i'll do myself... The technical background is not the same for everyone, so it's not as simple as this.
I ve to admit that i blocked two or three devices (HTC desire HD, Xperia Arc, SGS2) but all the answers were here, if we know how to search unbricking a device only takes a few seconds/minutes to do.
Since the marority of newbies will not read, and search correctly in this forum, the brands will continue to lock their bootloaders to avoid problems with the 95% of users who think they know, but they don't.

I Am Marino said:
Shouldn't matter, we know the risks of modding our phones, we pay for our phones and a lot more than we should over the life of a contract and even with upgrade price, we own our phone and should be able to have the bootloaders unlocked.
-Sent from my Droid 2-
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Click to collapse
I think that is why htc is offering an official unlocking tool, that will void your warranty. That way, you can do what you want, but htc isn't on the hook when you brick it.

e334 said:
Lol, 98% of kindle fire "brick" threads aren't actually bricked.. Being a kindle owner myself, its actually just because the computer doesn't recognize the device when it is stuck at fastboot.. (Easy fix by uninstalling all adb drivers and letting windows find the driver when you plug the kindle fire back in) The symptoms are like brick because it only powers on and it stuck at the kindle fire logo until you change the bootmode via computer...
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Click to collapse
Now look at it through the eyes of the average user. Is that really just a common sense fix?
It is in no way in the OEM's best interest to unlock the bootloader. For them, it's nothing but trouble. Those who want a back door will find one, the tougher it is to get into, the more idiots you can eliminate from the equation.

z33dev33l said:
Now look at it through the eyes of the average user. Is that really just a common sense fix?
It is in no way in the OEM's best interest to unlock the bootloader. For them, it's nothing but trouble. Those who want a back door will find one, the tougher it is to get into, the more idiots you can eliminate from the equation.
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I think part of why mfgs are still apprehensive of unlocking bootloaders is because they want to protect their code sense, blurr, etc... Some folks are changing there tune. Curious that unlike unlocking Google experience devices some mfgs are developing there own "unlock tool" I'll be apprehensive about using any tool from an mfg. I'm sure they'll CYA and you'll take all of the risk..

nrfitchett4 said:
Can you really blame them? I wonder sometimes how many Android returns are due to user screw ups, just look at the kindle fire forums, every other thread is, "help I bricked my fire"
I know this is a dev forum, but it doesn't surprise me at all that manufacturers are making it tougher.
Discuss
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like many have mentioned, we know what were doing to our phones by rooting/modding, but the manufacturer is treating us like little kids by not trusting us (looking @ you motorola)
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium

Haha, i'm one of those "haaaaah bricked my kindle fire" and yes i was just stuck in fastboot, some reading i build my fix
fastboot -i 0x1949 boot CWM5-B2.img
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For the manufacturer open bootloader means trouble, people will just brick there devices.
An other interesting argument i was stumling i going like: "We have to look the bootloader to keep the software integer for people not messing with the drm of music / videos. "

yea, i believe they just wanna protect their code

All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
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Click to collapse
I agree. Besides the number of people who actually mess around with their phones are a small amount. I'd say maybe less than 2% (and that's being generous).
If you don't want a locked bootloader, get a Samsung.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
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Click to collapse
Also, do PC companies care if you overclock your PC? No.
Bottom line, all in all, this is one of the best posts I've ever had the privilege to quote on XDA.

I Am Marino said:
Also, do PC companies care if you overclock your PC? No.
Bottom line, all in all, this is one of the best posts I've ever had the privilege to quote on XDA.
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And why the hell not? A smartphone is nothing more than a pocket-sized computer with telephony features. Any desktop from the past thirty years can also make phone calls provided it's connected to a network. So the fact that a smartphone makes calls does not make it less of a computer.
It's a computer. A very small computer that fits in your pocket, that also has phone functions. I long for the day when I can buy a barebones smartphone and install whatever OS I want on it, Android or MeeGo or Ubuntu Mobile or Symbian or Windows Phone or whatever other mobile-oriented OSes are out there at the time.

I just long for the day people get complete control of something they actually own.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problem with unlocking of bootloaders. But I do agree with OEM stance that unlocking of bootloader may void your warranty. Same thing if you mod your engine on your car, you may void your warranty for the engine. I agree that you should be allowed to mod the phone, just that htc shouldn't replace it when you screw it up. I think htcdev is about as balanced as we are going to get on it.