Database Users

[Q] What is the purpose of S-Off exactly?

I know there's starting to be a lot of discussion on best methods to perma-root, backups, custom roms, etc.; however, the one thing that I've noticed sticking out was the S-Off 'hack'.
I'm still following all the various threads as best I can and granted, I don't have any hands-on experience yet if S-Off is not required to flash custom roms or do backups/restore and such after perma-root (from what I've read - correct me if I'm wrong), so what exactly is the benefit of doing so?

Search for what is s-off ??
Nah... why is it so hard to use the search box,
Go check the rooting flashing basics TUTORIAL thread
Everything is explained there.

I did read... apparently I'm blind though or it wasn't there previously. =>_>=
(On a side-note though, S-Off in search yields too many results about methods to achieve S-Off as opposed to what it does.)

CWolfCW said:
I did read... apparently I'm blind though or it wasn't there previously. =>_>=
(On a side-note though, S-Off in search yields too many results about methods to achieve S-Off as opposed to what it does.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know
I've been constricting that thread for 3 days, so many stuff to explain in plain english, lots of work !!
If I edit something, you will always find the latest news on the very first line of the front post:
Everytime I update, add or change something, I write something like "[EDIT xx NOV 10, FAQ now enriched with Vitamins !!]" there, at the very first line
Today, NOV 13 night (-6 GMT), I think is 95% completed
I hope you found it useful
Enjoy !!

it sometimes a god trick to check the g2 forum to I really hope that some day the Hz forum and g2 forum will be one combined vison forum ..
and
When you go into the bootloader, you will see a notification saying "S-ON". This stands for "Security On" and it means that write protection is being turned on during the boot process and recovery images will not be applied without a valid signatur so when s-off you can use custom recovery.

stian230 said:
it sometimes a god trick to check the g2 forum to I really hope that some day the Hz forum and g2 forum will be one combined vison forum ..
and
When you go into the bootloader, you will see a notification saying "S-ON". This stands for "Security On" and it means that write protection is being turned on during the boot process and recovery images will not be applied without a valid signatur so when s-off you can use custom recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a a question as i dont fully understand s-off either......
Is this soley to do with how clockwork or the desire z works ? By that i mean that on my hero im 's-on' and its never been an issue flashing different recovery images....or is it only required for the initial flash from stock recovery to custom as your using the bootloader?
I know that on my hero i could flash a recovery from a recovery so there was no requirement to use the bootloader.....
cheers in advance

You bought a house (phone), they didn't give you the keys (password). Are you just going to sit there outside the front door for the rest of your life, or are you going to break in (hack)?
Right... you own it. That means that you get to go inside (USE IT!!!).

dhkr123 said:
You bought a house (phone), they didn't give you the keys (password). Are you just going to sit there outside the front door for the rest of your life, or are you going to break in (hack)?
Right... you own it. That means that you get to go inside (USE IT!!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
?? Im struggling to see your point....no ones questioning the benefits of rooting or breaking in as you've put it?
I believe the thread was asking about the relevance of enabling S-Off....

Basically what the man is trying to say is why be a prisoner to the smartphone developers and except what they give you when you know for a precise fact your device is capable of doing more. Having root access allows you to have full customization of your phone in addition to performing way faster then the stock hardware that they give you. Don't be follower, but if a whole smartphone community say its worth don't ask questions, do it. Then you'll learn something.
-Warm 2.2 RLS4+Ziggy Makes My HTC *ILLY* {Quad 1600plus/MFLOPS 37.309 In 2.25 Secs}
r0cky.Da.3v0.SU.-

r0cky0790 said:
Basically what the man is trying to say is why be a prisoner to the smartphone developers and except what they give you when you know for a precise fact your device is capable of doing more. Having root access allows you to have full customization of your phone in addition to performing way faster then the stock hardware that they give you. Don't be follower, but if a whole smartphone community say its worth don't ask questions, do it. Then you'll learn something.
-Warm 2.2 RLS4+Ziggy Makes My HTC *ILLY* {Quad 1600plus/MFLOPS 37.309 In 2.25 Secs}
r0cky.Da.3v0.SU.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man you guys need to read the thread title.....
EVERYONE on this forum understands the benefits of unlocking your phone through rooting and custom ROMs or we wouldnt be here.....Thats not the point
This thread was asking about the relevance/importance/purpose of the S-Off feature....and neither of you have answered anything to do with it
Anyone can follow instructions, but not everyone understands what it is they are doing.....and its by asking questions (like the one posted on this thread!!!) that enables us to better understand and apply in future.....now if everyone made posts like you have we definately wont learn anything! lol

If you hero is s-off then there will be certain things you can't do, lie change you splash screen.
However s-on back then was no as strong protection as s-on now, back then we were able to flash a new recovery and h-boot easily even if s-on but now htc have perfected the protection to make it a lot harder, basically we are very restricted in what we can "hack" while s-on.

In Lenny we trust,.... to say it in plain English.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Lennyuk said:
If you hero is s-off then there will be certain things you can't do, lie change you splash screen.
However s-on back then was no as strong protection as s-on now, back then we were able to flash a new recovery and h-boot easily even if s-on but now htc have perfected the protection to make it a lot harder, basically we are very restricted in what we can "hack" while s-on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Lenny, nice explanation now I understand why and not just how...
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

rtorbs said:
Man you guys need to read the thread title.....
EVERYONE on this forum understands the benefits of unlocking your phone through rooting and custom ROMs or we wouldnt be here.....Thats not the point
This thread was asking about the relevance/importance/purpose of the S-Off feature....and neither of you have answered anything to do with it
Anyone can follow instructions, but not everyone understands what it is they are doing.....and its by asking questions (like the one posted on this thread!!!) that enables us to better understand and apply in future.....now if everyone made posts like you have we definately wont learn anything! lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you're not understanding. ROOT is like having access to the back yard (in addition to the front), because the gate was unlocked. s-off is like having the key to the front door.

Lennyuk said:
If you hero is s-off then there will be certain things you can't do, lie change you splash screen.
However s-on back then was no as strong protection as s-on now, back then we were able to flash a new recovery and h-boot easily even if s-on but now htc have perfected the protection to make it a lot harder, basically we are very restricted in what we can "hack" while s-on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, 32A/B s-off and s-on are very similar to vision s-off and s-on. And similarly, it tended to be s-off in SPL ALONE.... i.e. the OLD permaroot method for vision.
Go look into DREAM JTAG thread, it explains it all. You need s-off to, for example, write hboot when all you've got is oemsbl -- and jtag was used to *temporarily* s-off the 32B's in order to accomplish that.
And BTW: You've got your ON's and OFF's reversed.... S = security... so S-ON = SECURITY ON = locked out. S-OFF = SECURITY OFF = full access.

dhkr123 said:
No, you're not understanding. ROOT is like having access to the back yard (in addition to the front), because the gate was unlocked. s-off is like having the key to the front door.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice analagy mate but you still havent told me sh*t lol.....I dont care what its 'like', I wanted to know what it was 'for' .....having come from a device/generation of phone that didnt utilise it the same......f*ck me lol
Look I appreciate what your saying but your missing the point.....still
I wont humor you any more, Lenny's explanation was spot on, ill now turn s off, and not only that, ill understand why I'm turning it off!
Non of this key to the closet ****e lol
Awesome thread!!
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

rtorbs said:
Man you guys need to read the thread title.....
EVERYONE on this forum understands the benefits of unlocking your phone through rooting and custom ROMs or we wouldnt be here.....Thats not the point
This thread was asking about the relevance/importance/purpose of the S-Off feature....and neither of you have answered anything to do with it
Anyone can follow instructions, but not everyone understands what it is they are doing.....and its by asking questions (like the one posted on this thread!!!) that enables us to better understand and apply in future.....now if everyone made posts like you have we definately wont learn anything! lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI sir, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out the "relevance/importance/purpose" of "Security Off". I mean off course that's if u don't have common sense. But thanx for your two pennies.
-Warm 2.2 RLS4+Ziggy Makes My HTC *ILLY* {Quad 1600plus/MFLOPS 37.309 In 2.25 Secs}
r0cky.Da.3v0.SU.-

r0cky0790 said:
it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out the "relevance/importance/purpose" of "Security Off".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though, if the original poster is like me, then this is the first place he's read that S-Off/On means Security-Off/On.
While we're on this topic, apart from the obvious benefits of having S-OFF, are there any drawbacks or things to watch out for with it off? Is it easier to brick with it off etc?

r0cky0790 said:
FYI sir, it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out the "relevance/importance/purpose" of "Security Off". I mean off course that's if u don't have common sense. But thanx for your two pennies.
-Warm 2.2 RLS4+Ziggy Makes My HTC *ILLY* {Quad 1600plus/MFLOPS 37.309 In 2.25 Secs}
r0cky.Da.3v0.SU.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having come from a HTC hero that didn't require S-On to flash custom roms or recovery images I wanted some clarity that's all.....but thanks for taking the time out to tell me Jack all you boring cnut........
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App

Unlocking free via IMEI, anyone?

So... a local reseller is offering me his HTC Wildfire (known as Desire A here where i live) BUT there is one problem, it is locked with an operator which i dont like and i can't pay. So I was wondering if there was a free way to unlock it (not rooting please, i dont understand that). I know that IMEI is legal and easy but and its cheap the problem is that i dont own a Credit Card, Therefore i cant pay it. Is there a way of getting my unlock code for free? Or is there another way to unlock it?
¬Killfer8

Is there a particular reason saying no to root? Actually do you really know what root is? If I am not mistaken, you can do your job done using alpharev (s-off unlock and the process is reversible back to s-on), maybe someone can show you the way to "how to" exactly.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk

LucidSomnia said:
Is there a particular reason saying no to root? Actually do you really know what root is? If I am not mistaken, you can do your job done using alpharev (s-off unlock and the process is reversible back to s-on), maybe someone can show you the way to "how to" exactly.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not possible as far as i know. we started a thread to try get it open but no joy... if you know a way then please enlightin us

heavy_metal_man said:
its not possible as far as i know. we started a thread to try get it open but no joy... if you know a way then please enlightin us
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to that!!

MobileTechVideos S-OFF

Anyone seen this? https://www.facebook.com/pages/MobileTechVideos/182579981788132?fref=ts
You guys know if they are credible or not?

I have a HTC DNA, and there are several good reports of MobileTechVideos doing s-off on the DNA in the DNA forums.
(The latest updates from HTC/Verizon removed the rooting/s-off exploits, so this currently is the only way to get s-off on a DNA that has been updated).
Here's one report:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=40714371&postcount=26

I saw some posts in a few other threads about them so I checked out their web site. It seems like they've been around for a while and more or less specialize in unbricking phones. Yesterday their Facebook page said they'd achieved S-OFF and applied SuperCID and then an hour or so later they said they'd managed it "without the wire". That was almost 24 hours ago, now. I'm waiting for more news.

yea they're credible. they fixed my bricked s2 been following them for 2 years

They are legit. Sent a couple of my phones to them over the years for hardware related repairs and they always fixed the issue. They were prompt, friendly, and well organized. Would not hesitate to use them again in the future.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

So now the question is, how?

ross_ctr said:
So now the question is, how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bet is they won't tell us how. They are a business so if anything you'll probably have to pay them and send your device in for them to do it for you. However, since it's been done I'm sure someone will be able to figure it out soon

ross_ctr said:
So now the question is, how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the impression is was via some sort of JTAG modification, but there really is no solid information at this point.

I haven't seen them say it was via JTAG, however they did say it wasn't via "the wire trick".... whatever that is. This is my first HTC so not clued up completely yet

ross_ctr said:
I haven't seen them say it was via JTAG, however they did say it wasn't via "the wire trick".... whatever that is. This is my first HTC so not clued up completely yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On many of the recent HTC phones, one has to take an insulated wire and short two contacts together at a specific interval in order to S-OFF. Those phones had removable battery covers, so getting at the electronic contacts was fairly simple. Hence the name "wire trick"

They've charged for S-Off in the past. There's nothing solid to think that they won't keep the details to themselves and make you pay for it this time as well.

im guessing its not going to be released

I'd be fine with paying for it.

Simba501 said:
I'd be fine with paying for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose if one had to return the phone to HTC you could relock and flash an RRU, to get rid of the TAMPERED and RELOCKED indicators. That is the advantage of S-Off, so far as I'm concerned.
What is the great advantage in your opinion? Oh yeah, it can flash a bootup animation with S-off.

stevedebi said:
I suppose if one had to return the phone to HTC you could relock and flash an RRU, to get rid of the TAMPERED and RELOCKED indicators. That is the advantage of S-Off, so far as I'm concerned.
What is the great advantage in your opinion? Oh yeah, it can flash a bootup animation with S-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes modding easier. I'm not quite familiar with the One yet (get it Friday), but on the One X (on some bootloaders), you couldn't flash kernels in recovery. Two things allowed you to do this: S-off and downgrading hboot. Downgrading was a pain. You also need S-off for changing the splash screen to a custom one.

S-off proof video fake or real (turkish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agPzTxJwipw
Is this real ?
Htc one getting s-off
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

why do you need s-off? an unlocked HTC One with s-on still behaves like a nexus device. You dont need s-off unless you are modding your own radio images - which no one does.

There is this company which sells it:
http://androidspin.com/2013/05/01/htc-one-s-off-achieved-htc-users-can-now-rejoice-as-well/
IMO this video proves nothing.
Sent from my NexusHD2 using xda premium

With htc dev accout you viod warranty i think
Thats the only reason i am waiting for soff
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

Yeah me too.
Sent from my NexusHD2 using xda premium

This is not really achieving s-off, not through an exploit but via the official way htc can do it with a clean s58 diag file, no body who has it want to share it, htc forbids it and I think there might be sanctions if you do copy the file (these files might even be watermarked to trace leaks...)
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------
ranova said:
why do you need s-off? an unlocked HTC One with s-on still behaves like a nexus device. You dont need s-off unless you are modding your own radio images - which no one does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you can debrand and flash newer/older hboots or radio, sometimes android updates require them, on the one i couldn't get jb because i needed a hboot update but none was available for my cid

I wanted the s-off so I can modify my CID.....

It's not real... (Gerçek değil cidden deneyen arkadaşlarım var ama sonuç alamadılar )...
Some friends tried it but not success...

Oh come on.. Do they really want us to believe, when they remove the phone away from the camare for an instant?
siktirsinler

birdcarrie said:
I wanted the s-off so I can modify my CID.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. I want an unbranded rom that gets the updates on time, rather than waiting for Telstra BS all the time. :good:

S-OFF - It's a real, but for money! Look at the photo of my HTC One ... After s-off will be superCID - CID11111111

I also own and S-OFF unit, reviewer units are S-OFF out of box
here is a picture of my bootloader

No video unit was soffed using diag file not review unit, hamdir last I heard you were desperate to buy retail HTC one ,now you have a review unit ??

atrako1973 said:
No video unit was soffed using diag file not review unit, hamdir last I heard you were desperate to buy retail HTC one ,now you have a review unit ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i had two to choose from, one for me and one for my uncle
but decided to keep this one, the only difference with retail end of March units is the C2_1 panel vs C2_2, and a hairline gap at the bottom but very sold fit
no biggie
i kept the S-OFF it's more free and special :laugh: the other unit was branded from Orange UK
I do agree however, S-OFF is no big deal unless you have branded or obscure unit and you want to change CID, personally i consider an S-ON CID_01 as the second best after super CID

Golv said:
S-OFF - It's a real, but for money! Look at the photo of my HTC One ... After s-off will be superCID - CID11111111
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where did you get ur s-off done? need to do it for mine and how much did you pay?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

c900712 said:
where did you get ur s-off done? need to do it for mine and how much did you pay?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's in Russia, in Moscow)))
About 60 euro. Done in a few minutes... Link. Use the Google Translate please ...

Burnt two S-OFF exploits in one go

After the amount of effort put into the Tegra HTC One X to achieve S-OFF, it's great to see S-OFF for HTC One, however am I the only one who thinks that releasing two separate S-OFF methods which, I presume, use different exploits is an overkill?
The way I see it is HTC will update the firmware/bootloader soon enough, patching both exploits as they're both public. This means extra work needed to achieve S-OFF on newer firmwares.
It's a shame that the both teams didn't collaborate and keep one exploit as a backup for when first one gets patched to keep the S-OFF goodness lasting longer.

how do we even know it is two exploits discovered?
No one has specifically explained how either method works.

Pointlol said:
lmao, this is quality trolling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. On a serious note what is wrong with two exploits? Just be happy that we have them and keep it moving ( to OP)
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

One is firmware dependant (Moonshine) whilst Revone is to work regardless of firnware version.

barondebxl said:
Lol. On a serious note what is wrong with two exploits? Just be happy that we have them and keep it moving ( to OP)
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple, newer phones will be shipped with newer firmware with patched exploits. With both of them public, it means HTC can patch both and we're back into the cat and mouse game of exploit searching. There is no point in releasing two, potentially different, exploits which achieve the same thing.

lollylost100 said:
Simple, newer phones will be shipped with newer firmware with patched exploits. With both of them public, it means HTC can patch both and we're back into the cat and mouse game of exploit searching. There is no point in releasing two, potentially different, exploits which achieve the same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so now that both have been released what do you want to do about it?

I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple

drakeymcmb said:
I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they wouldn't even care specially now that they provide developer and Google editions. That gives flexibility on the consumer side.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

Why not have two methods, doesn't hurt anything.

drakeymcmb said:
I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. They're becoming more developer friendly. That doesn't mean they WANT you to do it, but I highly doubt they will patch it. And it doesn't even matter if you're on a custom rom.

drakeymcmb said:
I'm sure HTC wanted us to find a s-off method and that they don't care
Remember htc is not apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on htc is not apple
only way HTC care's is if the carriers ***** about it.

clsA said:
+1 on htc is not apple
only way HTC care's is if the carriers ***** about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely this. HTC can't afford to lose carriers at this point.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

lollylost100 said:
After the amount of effort put into the Tegra HTC One X to achieve S-OFF, it's great to see S-OFF for HTC One, however am I the only one who thinks that releasing two separate S-OFF methods which, I presume, use different exploits is an overkill?
The way I see it is HTC will update the firmware/bootloader soon enough, patching both exploits as they're both public. This means extra work needed to achieve S-OFF on newer firmwares.
It's a shame that the both teams didn't collaborate and keep one exploit as a backup for when first one gets patched to keep the S-OFF goodness lasting longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you about the two ways. Until we have 1 way that works for both Windows and Linux then we need to ways. Right now one of the ways works on the phone itself or using CMD on a PC or Linux. The other way only works on Linux, I do not know how to use Linux nor do I really want to learn how. So I am forced to use Windows for everything. So like I said once we have a One way that works for everyone we need different ways to do it.

S-OFF in a Linux Live CD has been done before. Minimum learning curve required.
PS. HTC has plenty of reasons to patch S-OFF exploits:
1. It allows the device to return to Locked state, instead of Re-Locked
2. Has the ability to cause bricks
3. Allows for free SIM unlocks
4. Allows to bypass CID restrictions (branded FW)
5. Allows to change serial number/IMEI if you look hard enough
S-OFF is great for us, but for HTC it's just extra costs.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I don't really see why anyone want any OTA or RUU to flash, the entire purpose of being rooted s-off and everything about this is....
TO USE A ROOTED STOCK ROM....... OR DEODEX ROM....
I think that says everything.... I chose the revone,,, because why in the world did moonshine wait to release it, I will not say my personal opinion what I think about that...

mdiaz33685 said:
I don't really see why anyone want any OTA or RUU to flash, the entire purpose of being rooted s-off and everything about this is....
TO USE A ROOTED STOCK ROM....... OR DEODEX ROM....
I think that says everything.... I chose the revone,,, because why in the world did moonshine wait to release it, I will not say my personal opinion what I think about that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There isnt a custom rom out there for the ONE that requires s-off..If custom rom is what YOU WANT then you only need root. However custom roms do not include all firmware from new ruus or OTA's. Being s-off allows you to get these upgrades without waiting on your device specific ruu. I dont think the majority wants it so they can stay stock to get OTA's. Its so they have a choice and can upgrade when they want to. :victory:
Please say your personal opinion about moonshine, your other comments are your personal opinion, why stop now? And what would moonshine have to gain by waiting to release? I'm sure they were perfecting the code..making things as easy as possible for me and YOU. originally Thumb drives weren't supported yet now they are. The thumb drive didnt write its own code to make that happen.. Do you think cracking HTCs security and writing a user friendly app that has little to no chance to harm your device is fast and easy? If so please show us how its done. IMO If you cant do it yourself, and you are not paying for it, it shouldn't matter how long it took to release.

nugzo said:
There isnt a custom rom out there for the ONE that requires s-off..If custom rom is what YOU WANT then you only need root. However custom roms do not include all firmware from new ruus or OTA's. Being s-off allows you to get these upgrades without waiting on your device specific ruu. I dont think the majority wants it so they can stay stock to get OTA's. Its so they have a choice and can upgrade when they want to. :victory:
Please say your personal opinion about moonshine, your other comments are your personal opinion, why stop now? And what would moonshine have to gain by waiting to release? I'm sure they were perfecting the code..making things as easy as possible for me and YOU. originally Thumb drives weren't supported yet now they are. The thumb drive didnt write its own code to make that happen.. Do you think cracking HTCs security and writing a user friendly app that has little to no chance to harm your device is fast and easy? If so please show us how its done. IMO If you cant do it yourself, and you are not paying for it, it shouldn't matter how long it took to release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you noticed, I did not say anything negative, I didn't say my opionion. I did not thrash or flame moonshine. that is why I said I will keep my personal opionion to myself, I respect the developers, I don't develop or know the 1st thing about that.
so that being said, says all...
I say for people being rooted, get a stock rom, or firmwares and the developers release everything we need.
when someone installs ruu or otas. there hboots are changed, and then at one point or another u possibly wont be able to downgrade or something, that is why I say to stay away from RUU's... that is the only thing.
SO PLEASE, UNDERSTAND. I TOTALLY RESPECT MOONSHINE...:good: :silly:

For people with S-OFF, it won't matter if HBOOT is upgraded as long as the Radio flag is changed, then S-OFF will be permanent. Great for you!
But HTC will release updates with new HBOOTs and those will be shipped with newer devices. If they patch up the exploits, and I don't see why they won't, we'll be back to square one. Obviously it doesn't matter right now, but in the future I'm sure it will be an issue.
PS. There's even a new HBOOT on the 4.2.2 firmware and devices will soon start shipping with it.

Thread closed
Deleted about half the posts for trolling or Off-Topic.
All that could have been usefully said about that topic is said obviously as the discussion drifted to the advantages of Linux....