Database Users

[Q] 3G connectivity

Hello
Is it possible to connect usb 3G modem and make it work ??

I was picturing a bluetooth or wifi tethering of a mobile with a data connection to the nexus 7 as a possibility. Still not sure if i'm even getting one though.

People need to stop complaining about no 3g connectivity on devices the size of a tablet. Really? When are you going to sit down and use your tablet to browse the web in a public space that does not offer wifi? Nowadays we all have smartphones in case we need to quickly check an email, etc. The only time I would like to really have internet access would be if I go camping or go to a remote place. Lets be honest, how many times do you go camping a year? I know there are people who earn their living on the go and cannot perform without access to the web. The rest of us do not need this feature unless you are really addicted to the internet. Thanks for letting me share my opinion.
MB860, CM7.2.0, Faux 026b1 1Ghz

Soldier-2Point0 said:
People need to stop complaining about no 3g connectivity on devices the size of a tablet. Really? When are you going to sit down and use your tablet to browse the web in a public space that does not offer wifi? Nowadays we all have smartphones in case we need to quickly check an email, etc. The only time I would like to really have internet access would be if I go camping or go to a remote place. Lets be honest, how many times do you go camping a year? I know there are people who earn their living on the go and cannot perform without access to the web. The rest of us do not need this feature unless you are really addicted to the internet. Thanks for letting me share my opinion.
MB860, CM7.2.0, Faux 026b1 1Ghz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not complaining. I like the Nexus 7 a lot and for sure i will buy one when it is available at amazon or any other store that ship internationally. For me i use the 3G a lot and wifi is not available in the places i spent most of the time in. I was asking if it possible to connect a 3g usb modem like the asus transformer

M.Noury said:
I'm not complaining. I like the Nexus 7 a lot and for sure i will buy one when it is available at amazon or any other store that ship internationally. For me i use the 3G a lot and wifi is not available in the places i spent most of the time in. I was asking if it possible to connect a 3g usb modem like the asus transformer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was a general statement, do not take it personal. A lot of people are criticizing google for not including 3g connectivity.
You're better off tethering from your smartphone.
MB860, CM7.2.0, Faux 026b1 1Ghz

Soldier-2Point0 said:
People need to stop complaining about no 3g connectivity on devices the size of a tablet. Really? When are you going to sit down and use your tablet to browse the web in a public space that does not offer wifi? Nowadays we all have smartphones in case we need to quickly check an email, etc. The only time I would like to really have internet access would be if I go camping or go to a remote place. Lets be honest, how many times do you go camping a year? I know there are people who earn their living on the go and cannot perform without access to the web. The rest of us do not need this feature unless you are really addicted to the internet. Thanks for letting me share my opinion.
MB860, CM7.2.0, Faux 026b1 1Ghz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not everyone lives in a developed country like you. some of us live outside of the US if you don't already know that. in some countries wifi is not as ubiquitous as in the US. i for one spend a lot of time travelling on a car where i am not the one driving. i love to browse the web using my smartphone on a trip. i'd love to do the same thing with tablet (nexus 7) without having to tether from my smartphone and drain the phone's battery. but that's just my opinion and thanks for letting me share it.

I've been searching for a way to have a 3g connectivity as well and until now I've found 3 solutions:
1- Tether internet from your phone
2- buy one Huawei E5830
3- buy a 3g dongle, an usb to micro usb adapter and compile the drivers for android (I've no clue how to do it or if it's even possible on the nexus 7)
Regards

neric91 said:
I've been searching for a way to have a 3g connectivity as well and until now I've found 3 solutions:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you share the solutions with us
I already pre-ordered one
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

M.Noury said:
Can you share the solutions with us
I already pre-ordered one
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Allready edited my post ^^ sorry for that.

M.Noury said:
Hello
Is it possible to connect usb 3G modem and make it work ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was also wondering about this so I emailed google, here is their reply:
"Thanks for contacting Google with your question.
Unfortunately I can't confirm that your OTG cable will work with your device, however I would definitely suggest that if you have one to give it a try."
Er thanks google!

neric91 said:
I've been searching for a way to have a 3g connectivity as well and until now I've found 3 solutions:
1- Tether internet from your phone
2- buy one Huawei E5830
3- buy a 3g dongle, an usb to micro usb adapter and compile the drivers for android (I've no clue how to do it or if it's even possible on the nexus 7)
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Option 3 should instead be a mifi device so no need for extra expense of a cable
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

animatechnica said:
Option 3 should instead be a mifi device so no need for extra expense of a cable
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what his option 2 is.

username24 said:
I was also wondering about this so I emailed google, here is their reply:
"Thanks for contacting Google with your question.
Unfortunately I can't confirm that your OTG cable will work with your device, however I would definitely suggest that if you have one to give it a try."
Er thanks google!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, would this be the same question as asking "given that my phone and data plan allow tethering, can I tether my phone to this tablet and use the data connection to browse on my tablet?"
I plan to use this tablet while i'm at work for reading while i'm on my lunch break. I already do this on my phone (use Pulse to catch up on all the science and tech news) but would really like to be able to just tether my phone to the tablet and use the tablet for easier reading (and no, I don't have wifi connection at work, and I eat my lunch in the break room...no use wasting gas going down the street to McDonalds which also eats up my lunch time. I cherish every precious second lol).
EDIT: Can't believe I forgot this. I always give out detailed info, lol. Anyway, my current phone is the T-Mobile G2x running Android 2.3.4. Not sure if that would make any difference, but I prefer to give out too much info than not enough

I suggest you check out Foxfi in the Google play store. Its a free workaround to turn your Android device into a WiFi hotspot. The app is free, and you don't have to pay your provider for a hotspot plan. It will just be using the phone data you're already paying for. You also don't have to be rooted. When you have Foxfi activated, you can connect anything that can run off a wireless connection to it like your laptop and most likely the Nexus 7. I don't have a Nexus 7 yet so I can't confirm this completely, but I'm able to get Foxfi to work for other Android tablets. If you're on Sprint, sprint has blocked Foxfi from the play store, so just Google Foxfi and download from their website. Also, Foxfi doesn't play completely nice with all devices, so you may need to use it with bluetooth tethering with specific phones. All the instructions and disclamers are in the app description. Definitely check it out though. My wife and I love it...

why stop complaining
Soldier-2Point0 said:
People need to stop complaining about no 3g connectivity on devices the size of a tablet. Really? When are you going to sit down and use your tablet to browse the web in a public space that does not offer wifi? Nowadays we all have smartphones in case we need to quickly check an email, etc. The only time I would like to really have internet access would be if I go camping or go to a remote place. Lets be honest, how many times do you go camping a year? I know there are people who earn their living on the go and cannot perform without access to the web. The rest of us do not need this feature unless you are really addicted to the internet. Thanks for letting me share my opinion.
MB860, CM7.2.0, Faux 026b1 1Ghz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, I think that ppl should continue complaining about missing 3G connectivity. 3G/4G connectivity should be state of the art as it has been in the past two years since the 7" Galaxy Tab was introduced. 7" is the best compromise in mobility and comfortable display size as well as a compromise regarding communication capabilities and tablet (life)style. I personally use an original 7" Galaxy Tab, privately and for business, and I love(!) being able to use it as a phone (w/ BT haedset) and device for internet access whenever and wherever I might be (even when camping, in the subway on a bus or in the mountains). There's no full WiFi coverage here in Austria and, honestly, I don't hink it's anywhere else. It's just such an advantage NOT to need a second (or third device e.g. TomTom or Garmin) device for connectivity, navigation or communication that I don't wanna miss it. Due to that it also bothers me (OT, as this is discussed in another thread) not to have a camera. As I've got only one device (and am very happy with that "configuration") I often use the camera for taking snapshots and sharing them online (after editing on the tablet) or deciphering QR codes etc.
In the beginning I was thrilled by the announcement of the Nexus 7 and it's incredible specs but honestly, I think there are too many no-go's for a 2012 7"-tab and I'll most probably choose Huawei's MediaPad as "legitimate successor" for my GT. it might be slower and more outdated but in my point of view way more "sophisticated".
thanks for letting me share my opinion..
now back to M.Noury's question. as it's possible to use 3G dongles with almost every "cheap" tablet that's e.g. offered on CECT-shop I'd definitely give it a try.
cheers
Tom

Anyone tried any 3g dongles?

tried with a zte MF112 and a huawei E535. Stick mount sees the card reader portions of the sticks and the status lighs start to flash but thats about it, not found any way of making use of them

[Q] Google Play Books/Magazines/Music Outside the US

anyone bring a nexus 7 outside the US yet? i have read that books/magazines/music dont work. but with the nexus 7 being wifi only... i have a few questions:
1. do these features disappear like they do on phones? i have a galaxy nexus. non-us apps disappear from the app launcher if you dont have a US sim card. can you at least access the free bundled content when it detects that you dont have a US ip?
2. can you connect to a wireless VPN service and access those blocked services? can you buy stuff with a non-US credit card? i was able to buy blocked content before with my non-US credit card... but through the play web version and a VPN service... i cant seem to buy books anymore. not sure if this is the same with the nexus 7
3. are there any non-root apps that allows the nexus 7 to get a US ip address just by connecting to any wifi hotspot?
im sure there are a lot more questions from non-US pre-orderers of the nexus 7. hope this thread helps us.

Wrong section, this belongs in the Questions section.
I'm wondering this too, except I am willing to root for for these features.

Yep, Questions go in the Q&A section

Yes , through vpn you can access the play store movies and magazine portion and they should also play fine. I used to do that on many of my previous android devices.

saadi703 said:
Yes , through vpn you can access the play store movies and magazine portion and they should also play fine. I used to do that on many of my previous android devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can anyone confirm this yet? Otherwise I need to invest time in setting up a VPN in the US

Play books works fine on my TP in the UK via wifi so I it should work on the N7, I can't see Google crippling their own hardware in that way.

locutus2000 said:
Can anyone confirm this yet? Otherwise I need to invest time in setting up a VPN in the US
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should see blocked content via VPN, problem is you can't buy anything even the free ones if you don't put in a 'valid' authorized payment option.
Tried it and that's what I found out.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

antikryst said:
You should see blocked content via VPN, problem is you can't buy anything even the free ones if you don't put in a 'valid' authorized payment option.
Tried it and that's what I found out.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In that case I'm very hopefull, with my own google account I managed to pay with my own creditcard with billing address in USA. My bank accepted it so there will be no issue for me.

locutus2000 said:
In that case I'm very hopefull, with my own google account I managed to pay with my own creditcard with billing address in USA. My bank accepted it so there will be no issue for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so did you get it to work or do you think you can get it to work? sorry. im a bit confused.
getting my nexus 7 in a couple of days still so i cant really try it myself yet.

It works for magazines and music, but it doesn't seem to work for movies/tv shows. I can buy, for example a tv show, but can't download it even when I'm connected through VPN. FYI; using VyperVPN from giganews. Hope this helps
Paul
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium

antikryst said:
so did you get it to work or do you think you can get it to work? sorry. im a bit confused.
getting my nexus 7 in a couple of days still so i cant really try it myself yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=28259205

Guest Access - no one can connect but my google account

I was wondering if anyone else has been able to get more than one google account actually connected to their nexus q. We are trying one in our office and only my phone and tablet with my google account can connect it it. When we try with someone elses phones the nexus q app always says no devices found. Now if I do a factory reset it does show on the phone but once one person has connected and taken ownership none of the other phones can find the device or connect to it.
Any ideas? Searched everywhere and can't find anything on it.

Will try tomorrow and let you know.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Worked for me.. not my Google account and it works. Good luck to you getting yours figured out !
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Smokuevo said:
Worked for me.. not my Google account and it works. Good luck to you getting yours figured out !
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still can't get any guests to connect. Can you explain how you did this? What I have tried is I have a nexus s4g as the primary device and setup the q with it. I then took my hp touch pad with CM9 and was able to find the q with out any issues at all. Both have my same google account on it. Then we tried to connect some other android devices we have at the office but none of them could find the nexus q for some reason. They were all on the same network and all had at least ics running as their os. The devices tested were a Verizon galaxy nexus. An AT&T Samsung galaxy s2 and a tmobile galaxy s2 and finally an htc touch pro. None of those would ever find the device. We even tried adding my account to one of the other devices but that did not help. The only difference from my deviceses to the other test devices is mine are rooted but I doubt that would make a difference. Any ideas.

3 devices I tried are rooted one isn't. Two have the same Google account the other two are both different. Worked on all 4. Maybe try rebooting nexus q and re-set it up.. sometimes I have to repower my q as it doesn't start up by it self once in sleep mode... but that's because I don't use it too much.. I want to root it but want to see what Google will add to it first
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Okay so after numerous times trying to get this working I just broke down and bought a new router. Simply plugged my current jack at the office into that and instead of using our offices wireless, connected the q to the new router and boom, now every one can connect.
So for sure there are some networking issues with the Q that needs to be worked out but hope this can help. I have sent Google the routers we were using in the office (cisco) so they can add that to their list of routers with issues. Definitely confirmed that the routers were fully open so who knows what was causing the issue.
Thanks again,
Joe

[Q]Is changing the MAC possible on nexus 7?

Hello,
Its my first post (been watching the forum for a while), so i would like to say hello.
This month (as asus claims) the nexus 7 is arriving in my country. If it doesn't i'm willing to buy one in the UK.
Because of that i would like to ask a question to the owners of that device:
is changing the MAC address possible as stated in this guide:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1385577
Would anyone be willing to check that?
Or is there any other method i don't know?
And confirm that when you change the mac it appears in the router settings (connects to the network with the changed one)?
I would like to know that because WiFi in my school is limited to two devices, checked by MAC. I have already registered a phone and a laptop.
Greetings,
mlawnikPL

You could change the Mac address.
If you work for the FBI
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app

Clone perhaps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=diewland.changemac
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

That app is a front-end to the tutorial I gave in the op. But is anyone willing to actually TRY it and post results? That's what I'm asking for.
Sent from my LG-P350 using xda app-developers app

If you read through all the post on the topic you linked to you... you will notice that it is a Hit or Miss type of thing.
Meaning you might get it working, or you might not. Or you might get it working once, or the next time you try it will fail.
The method listed on that Topic is not a permanent solutions.. once your tablet/phone is reset/powered off the MAC will go back to the original.
Since its the hardware (the WiFi Card inside the device) that has the MAC address store in it.. and it clearly states in the that Topic you are "Spoofing" a MAC address.
Try something like Connectify ( http://www.connectify.me/ ) - you will need a Windows7 laptop/PC though.
Then you can connect all the devices you want..
Or un-register your phone, and register the tablet.. More than likely you will use the Table more often anyways, and your phone has a 3G/4G connection already.
Or wait and see if the 3G Nexus 7 hits your country... Or Order one from a US (or whatever country they are released to) and have it shipped to you.

KoolAidJunkie said:
If you read through all the post on the topic you linked to you... you will notice that it is a Hit or Miss type of thing.
Meaning you might get it working, or you might not. Or you might get it working once, or the next time you try it will fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why im asking if anyone will actually try it for me and other people that might want to know if that method works.
The method listed on that Topic is not a permanent solutions.. once your tablet/phone is reset/powered off the MAC will go back to the original.
Since its the hardware (the WiFi Card inside the device) that has the MAC address store in it.. and it clearly states in the that Topic you are "Spoofing" a MAC address.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get that, I've read it...
Try something like Connectify ( connectify.me ) - you will need a Windows7 laptop/PC though.
Then you can connect all the devices you want..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this doesn't quite work as I would expect it to be.
Or un-register your phone, and register the tablet.. More than likely you will use the Table more often anyways, and your phone has a 3G/4G connection already.
Yeah, but it's expensive(the connection).
Or wait and see if the 3G Nexus 7 hits your country... Or Order one from a US (or whatever country they are released to) and have it shipped to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do, as said in the OP.
Anyway, thanks for your answer. Anyone willing to help and try out that method for me?
Greetings,
mlawnikPL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

This is an interesting scenario and yes it works
Keep in mind that you can't have two devices with same MAC address on the same LAN
With the MAC filter policy, you could either clone your either of the devices you have or, use a Bluetooth connectivity between your android phone and nexus 7 or some form of tethering
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

heyodee said:
This is an interesting scenario and yes it works
Keep in mind that you can't have two devices with same MAC address on the same LAN
With the MAC filter policy, you could either clone your either of the devices you have or, use a Bluetooth connectivity between your android phone and nexus 7 or some form of tethering
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I forgot the Bluetooth option... connect to phone to your schools WiFi, the use a Bluetooth tether app to share connections...
Like hayodee said, spoofing a MAC won't allow you to connect all three device...
My question, why are you not trying this "spoofing" yourself..
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app

I am not trying this method because I don't have my N7 yet.
And I would not connect all three devices at once but one day I might take just phone and the other a tablet and a laptop, so then I would spoof the phone Mac...
Sent from my LG-P350 using xda app-developers app

So... Miracast and the Nexus 7?

Please tell me the N7 4.2 update will bring miracast. Because I cannot explain to you guys how exciting that would be XD
Also...anyone know where to buy one of those adapters?

I know you are excited... we all are.
Where to start? Ok first off don't buy any adapters for anything yet. Read this and get a little depressed, first (but less depressed than if you wasted money on an adapter that isn't compatible with your device).
http://www.slashgear.com/miracast-accessories-dont-jump-in-head-first-just-yet-06255843/
Now let's make you feel a little better. Hardware wise, yes Nexus 7(which has Tegra 3 chips) should be fine with Miracast.
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/07/tegra-enhances-miracast-wireless-display-on-hdtvs/
Although we don't really know if the bandwith of the wireless card will allow for streaming content from the interwebs to your TV, what the quality will be for a 2.4 Ghz wireless card or if Google will natively support it for the N7 (even though 4.2 is supposed to)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1896605
Time will tell. For now, just sit back and watch the posts to see the early adopters complain or rejoyce. As it is we really haven't even seen Miracast in action in the real world, just very controlled demos intended to get us all excited (please correct me if you have a real world video).

Also interested in knowing how well this will work. Please report successes/failures here. I am looking to switch from my T-Mobile Springboard to N73G but I'll miss the HDMI.

The update is here for many people so it is time to settle this once and for all.
I know some of you that have already updated have a netgear 3000 ready to go so...what is the verdict?Does it work or not?

Any updates on Miracast on N7 in 4.2?

djfoo000 said:
Any updates on Miracast on N7 in 4.2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as i can see, the N7 update did not include Miracast.

Well for better or for worse I ordered my N73G. I damn well hope there is some way to output video sooner or later.

The anandtech review of the N4 shows there is an option in the display settings for it. Unfortunately its not been added to the N7
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6440/2012-11-13 05.08.30.png
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

gbroon said:
The anandtech review of the N4 shows there is an option in the display settings for it. Unfortunately its not been added to the N7
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6440/2012-11-13 05.08.30.png
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.... IT SUCKS! ....but thanks anyway

I mean...hey guys
The google native support was always an iffy thing. It sucks but I'm sure we'll see some custom rom love in the upcoming weeks/months (hours? I love you guys... You are doing God's work). There doesn't seems to be a lot of options for Miracast from the pull side (unless you want to go buy a new TV just to support your $200-$300 tablet) So it's not like there is a huge rush to get the push side working right away. The bigger question is the persormance we'll see. But to be honest the fact that google nixed it from the start seems to suggest we may be disappointed with that too.

So I bought the Netgear ptv3000 updated my N7 hooked it up to my TV connected to it through WIFI-Direct and nothing. Screen on my TV says it's "ready to connect". It connects via wifi-direct according to my tablet but not the 3000 isn't showing it.

Nexus 7 will support Miracast needs to be on 4.2 and set op boxes may need to be updated, but overall, wait o buy, here what people say about them. I am waiting for the update to be pushed to me over the air because I am to lazy to dit manually right now, but it should be to all of us in at most 3-4 days. It may be a setting inside apps. Although, from the man websites I have been to, they have all been saying that it will get Miracast. I would post some but I have just lost track of all of the websites.
Sent from my Nexus 7

I hoped someone would say that. It connects according to the tablet but nothing beyond that. Thanks for giving me hope. I did update to 4.2 and no updates for the netgear ptv3000.

stunndd said:
I hoped someone would say that. It connects according to the tablet but nothing beyond that. Thanks for giving me hope. I did update to 4.2 and no updates for the netgear ptv3000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you connect via WiFi direct? I just noticed under WiFi settings -> menu (the 3 dots) there's a WiFi direct option that didn't use to be there
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

sci05 said:
Did you connect via WiFi direct? I just noticed under WiFi settings -> menu (the 3 dots) there's a WiFi direct option that didn't use to be there
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the moment, it just doesn't seem to be an option as Google hasn't included it in the 4.2 build. I tried to connect up my 3000 with the Wi-Fi direct option, but it doesn't do anything- I suspect it won't work without the option in the display menu.
After the late availability emails today on 4/10 releases to the store, Google is not on my nice list at the moment.

mpalensh said:
For the moment, it just doesn't seem to be an option as Google hasn't included it in the 4.2 build. I tried to connect up my 3000 with the Wi-Fi direct option, but it doesn't do anything- I suspect it won't work without the option in the display menu.
After the late availability emails today on 4/10 releases to the store, Google is not on my nice list at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried playing YouTube through the TV via the new YouTube app?
Not full Miracast as far as I can tell but it might work.

WiFi direct doesn't work. At least for me but I don't use it anyways.
Sent from my SPH-D710/Nexus7 using Tapatalk v2.4.1

wjr002 said:
Have you tried playing YouTube through the TV via the new YouTube app?
Not full Miracast as far as I can tell but it might work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it doesn't work. It's asking for a PIN for a different type of device - probably the Google TVs.

wjr002 said:
Have you tried playing YouTube through the TV via the new YouTube app?
Not full Miracast as far as I can tell but it might work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is in no way miricast. My OG droid has been able to do that for over a year. You can also do it with netflix.

James-NC said:
The update is here for many people so it is time to settle this once and for all.
I know some of you that have already updated have a netgear 3000 ready to go so...what is the verdict?Does it work or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Upgraded Nexus 7 to 4.2, bought a Netgear PTV3000 and tested.
First of all, couldn't find any Miracast related settings in N7/4.2.
Was able to see the adapter, changing its mode from Intel WiDi to Miracast mode and enabling Wi-Fi Direct option in Wi-Fi settings on N7/4.2. I can invite the adapter, but nothing happens on the other side.
Wi-Fi Direct option was already available in 4.1.2 and I understand its purpose is to transfer files only.
Any input or suggestion?