Related
My phone provider (carphone warehouse UK - O2) made a mistake when I ordered my XDAII, and accidentally sent me another device
I haven't told them that I have received it, and they haven't contacted me to reclaim it (it's been quite a while).
Does anybody know the situation regarding using it, or selling it. Would the IMEI have been registered with a lost/stolen list, and would using it as a phone cause an identity message to be received somewhere, and for carphone warehouse or O2 (or the police!) to investigate.
I wouldn't mind using it myself, as my primary XDAII has a slightly annoying dead pixel in the display. Or should I avoid using it on a phone network and just use it as a experimental PDA.
Anybody know the legals on this? IANAL, but I beleive if you receive unsolicited goods then you have a right to keep them.
Feckin' dead pixels! I got one too. But the myxda.com site states that up to 3 dead dots is acceptable
If you use the device, be aware that the call timers can't be reset yet. So, if you clock up a coulple of hours and then have to give it back, they could charge you.
TTFN
Call them !
Andy
Forget it, call them and make arrangements for a return (or event better, return the one with the dead pixels).
Thank them for sending you the replacement and return the bad one.
If you sell it, I am certain you are guilty of fraud and could get a jail sentence or serious fine depending on the mood of the judge.
keeping it probably won't get you nailed, as you were merely waiting for return instructions (you did call them remember ?)
Personally I would go for a return of the bad XDA and keep the good one. It would keep you consious clean and you would benefit from their mistake.
I am sure they have the IMEI somewhere, and you can be traced anywhere using that.
Also don't forget that someone from the shop may be reading your post here - or someone may decide to forward the mail to carphone warehouse. If your name is anywhere close to your user name, they can prove that you are no longer in good faith.
It's not worth it.
Regards
Michael
Thanks, I'm pretty law abiding, so I don't really think I could have kept it with a clear conscience. I'll give CPW a call and see what they say.
Well just called CPW, and basically they didn't have a clue (as usual).
They just told me to return it to the store that I got it from (huh?). Anyway, I'll pop into my local CPW this lunchtime and see what they say.
I think I'm within my rights to keep it (see below), but it's presently just taking up space in my office.
The new rules provide for unsolicited goods (meaning those where the recipient has no reasonable cause to believe that they were sent with a view to their being acquired for the purposes of a business and where the recipient has not agreed to acquire or return them). The recipient may, as between himself and the sender, "use, deal with or dispose of the goods as if they were unconditional gift to him…. The rights of the sender to the goods are extinguished".
The Directive also exempts the consumer from the "provision of any consideration" in cases of unsolicited supply. In this context, in their 1999 consultation the DT1 said that they considered this to mean that the consumer is under no obligation to enable the supplier to retrieve the goods and services but can treat them as his or her own property from the time of receipt. That is what the new regulations now provide.
http://www.humphreys.co.uk/articles/e_commerce_1.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[/quote]
Andy, if you feel bad about keeping it send it to the developers for "safekeeping". The imei will not be blocked as the procedure for stolen/lost phone hasnt been triggered.
I hada phone stolen b4, and i sked TMO to block the imei#, and all they sed they could do, was to suspend my line, an block that sim.....wut kinda bull**** is this!?
In the UK it's become law that Phone companies have to work together to allow blocking and reporting of phones on a device basis (ie IMEI) for crime prevention, so O2 are definitely capable of this.
Note this message doesn't have anything to do with sims (I only have one of those); just the physical phone hardware.
Anyway, didn't make it to CPW this lunchtime, but will try tomorrow and report back with any news. Are there any lawyers (or UK phone co employees) out there who'd care to give their opinion?
Criminal law
As an English criminal lawyer I believe you would be committing a criminal offence under s.1 of the Theft Act 1968 which carries a maximum sentence of up to 7 years imprisonment and an unlimited fine in the Crown Court. Although as it's likely to be your first offence then you are likely to be fined only.
The basic definition is that you dishonestly
appropriate
property
belonging to another
with the intention of permanently depriving
Obviously the main issue is whether you acted dishonestly. The fact that you had a genuine belief that you are morally justified in acting as you did is no defence if you knew that ordinary people would consider your conduct to be dishonest. (R v Ghosh (1982)). No doubt the CPS (Crown Prosection Service) would try to say that an ordinary person should/would try to contact the carphone wharehouse.
Personally I don't see why you have to travel to the the car phone wharehouse. You should notify them them and ask them to collect and ask them to reimburse you if they don't collect it by a certain date to compensate you for your inconvienience.
Ok hope that helps !
Can any of you guys help me with my memory loss problem ? and where to get a 1gb SD card ?
Eek - bit of a scary tone to the posting, but thanks anyway.
Btw - they sent it to me without asking, so I rather doubt it would be covered by the theft act otherwise people could post things to people they disliked and then call the police. As I had no idea what to do with it, and expected CPW to send a courier to pick it up, I just shoved it under my desk and forgot about it.
He did not appropriate the goods, it was unsolicited, he has attempted to return it to the company that sent it, they told him to return it to the shop he got it from, he didnt get from a shop, he has never acted dishonestly and has not instigated the supply of the phone. I had some stuff delivered to my address, I was told to inform the company and if they didnt pick it up in a reasonable time the property was mine, they didnt pick it up, I kept it. I never asked for it in the first place neither did this guy with the phone, I dont think it is his responsibility once he has advised the company of the error, it is not up to him to be attempting to solve a problem not of his making and he should not incur any expense, or inconvenience because of a company error.
In the US, I believe the law is, if someone sends something to you that you didn't ask for, its yours. Obviously, it may be different in the UK. But I would still return the one with the dead pixels. I was fortunate to get a good one with all working pixels and it would bug me beyond belief to have a dead pixel
Appropriates
is defined as any assumption of the rights of an owner, if the defendant came came by the property (innocently or otherwise ) without stealing it and later assumed a right to it by keeping it he has appropriated it. That was defined in the case of R v Hinks 2001.
The Theft Act 1968 provides that appropriation in the following circumstances is not dishonest if the defendant believed the other person would have consented had the other person known of the appropriation and the circumstanes of the appropriation or if the defendant believed the person to whom the property belonged (ie to CPW) could not be discovered by taking reasonable steps.
As for your example of sending unsolicited items and calling the police - would only apply if they kept hold of the items and didn't bother to find the owner. Eg you can find something in the street and keep and be found guilty of theft.
I know many people may not agree with this but that is the law as defined by statute and common law. Now at the end of the day whatever you do is up to you and I wish you the best of luck.
ps anyone got any ideas about my memory loss
Thanks for the info - we all know UK law's a right old monster of "spaghetti code", rather you than me. I'll stick to Windows development
Anyway, I shall attempt to get CPW to retrieve their goods, with minimal cost/effort on my part. I'm certainly not going to post it to them. Basically I don't need it, and I'd definitely feel "criminal" selling it.
As for your memory loss - and I presume we're talking pocketPC, rather than Korsakov's syndrome - I'll get back to you on that one in your topic.
Just keep it they make to much money ripping people off and they wont notice its gone.
I think intent to "permanently deprive" the owner is a term used, so if you just used it and then if and when you were asked to return it, you did so, then the intent to permanently deprive the righful owner isnt an issue. He has informed them of the mistake, that is his sole obligation as far as I can see.
Regarding the note on finding property in the street: I once found a cheque book and saw that it belonged to a Doctor. Maybe it was a holiday weekend, but my logic suggested I should try to contact the owner directly (I think there was a phone number). Anyhow, I couldn't get hold of him, so took it to my local poloce station.
Imagine my surprise when I had to wait while they took details of myself then proceeded to record every cheque stub transaction.
When I informed the Police that I had tried to call the owner directly they said that I should never attempt to do so, because if there had been a subsequent allegation of fraud against me I would (apparently) have been in big trouble.
I suppose the point here is not to assume anything.
In your case I would write a letter to CPW head office, making it clear you have received unsolicited goods and giving them a resonable deadline in which to collect these at your convenience.
Write to head office and suggest that they come and get the stuff.
Otherwise in 30 days from the letter you will consider the equipment to be yours.
I think this is legal as the Citizens Adviice people recommended this when I had a load of books from some crappy book club that I never asked for arrive on my doorstep. They sent a courier round.
They tried to tell me to post it back then claim the postage from them - YEAH - like I'd trust them to pat me back!
Oh - make sure it's all at YOUR convenience. No trips to the PO or waiting in for the courier!
I admire your honesty - I think I may have kept the XDA.
You are going to keep the good unit aren;t you? Not the one with the duff pixels? After all - you don't know which one is yours really do you?
Yeah, i've informed them over the phone, and they promised a courier on Friday - surprise surprise nobody came. That citizens' advice bureau advice sounds good, so I might put it in writing.
Hi,
We receive unsolicited equipment through the post all the time.
It is NOT your responsibility to chase them up.
If they atempt to recover the property and persue it if you resist, then it could go either way in court. They may try to pin something on you, like you said the first one did arive.
Its good practice to call them anyway, and give them a time limit to collect it, and if you despise carephone warehouse as much as i do, charge them an admin fee lol (that IS within your right, and in fact you can keep it until they pay up)
Toxic.
Last week I had a bad experience with Imate.com call centre “Mahhamod Hamdam” was swearing about me whilst he thought I was on hold, I wasn’t, I heard everything he said.
I had a broken Jasjar and had been trying to be in contact with someone for over two weeks and was near tears.
Luckily I was accelerated to Imate’s Australian office where I was handled correctly and my device was replaced in a gesture of goodwill.
Though I did not like the run around and being sworn at ( plus the stomach ulcer) there is a silver lining:
I am currently writing some consumer recommendations for their website, e.g. contact support online is a joke, their email address isn’t promoted correctly……… If there is anyone who would like to give Imate some suggestions for improvement, this is the time, I will collect the results and email it to an Imate official who is open to suggestions and has the power to implement them.
Now is your chance to be heard!
Email suggestions to [email protected] as well as upload them to this thread for everyone else to see
Cheers and thank you for your kind support.
Hello Joshua,
I have been given this address in the hope to have some improvements on the after sales service of your devices...I write you from Italy where I have bought 2 devices from I mate a Kjam and after a JasJar.
I first tell you that the competiton here with Qteck is strong, its price is lower but the decision I made to take an Imate was for its supposed after service sales and responsivness of the tech staff....if you spend more than 1400 € on devices which you use to work with, this is an important factor of selection I believe.
I am very happy with the 2 devices and I do not protest again problems or flaws they might have..this is technology this is accpted at least by me....what I kindly ask you to consider is how to help people who needs help with these devices. here some suggestion:
1)The online service does not work...or it works very little. The chances to get an operator are almost similar to win a lotery; right now I was posting a question after numerous attempt I get an operator , he answered me , I replied.....silence SESSION TIMEd OUT!! ....in my opinion you can take this service out and leave the VERY good email service...everytime I needed a help it worked perfect and quick...you can improve this by taking out resources from the online service b and form more technicians....there is nothing more disturbing than having a promise on something that eventually doesn't work!
2) Why not putting up an online service over the phone ? I had Palm before , in evry Country they had this service.You need to buy a card ( 10-15 €) and you have enough time t speak and explain your proble to "someone", if you have urgency matters...do not forget most of this people use these device to work!!!
3) I am in Italy. I do not know what happens if something goes wrong with my devices....shall I have to send it back to ....? no help in the imate site where to lovcate it .
4) More technical info available, please...I give you an example...I could not get MMS on my device...the online service told me to contact the service provider Vodafone that I did...they told me aftr numerous chat, converstaions, attempts, that it was a known issue that Imate was not working with Vodafone Italy.....strange enough!! I wrote to the technical imate dept, they sent me by email 4 pages of better expalnation on how to unable MMS service ( that is not EVIDENT AT ALL and not written in the manual provided wuth the device) and voila the thing flyes now over MMS.....Joshua, more documentation....I could , I would use VPN but I do not know how to handle it...more open literature on line would be of grea help.
I hope these can be at least read and if possible taken into consideration.
Have a good day.
Hello,
I've found club i-mate annoying. I run a small consulting company and we use several i-mate phones (rebranded and provided by a local carrier). I've tried to register some of these on club i-mate but keep being told the IMEI numbers are not valid (despite them being new and from a local carrier, T-mobile).
The club i-mate site is very difficult to use if you are not a member (a catch-22 in my situation) and location of email addresses/phone numbers bery difficult. It gives the impression that the company wants to have the benefit of selling the devices and increasing market penetration without the bother of having to actually deal with people who have bought them.
Hope you your dealings with HTC produce results,
Michael
greetings people, I have implemented a few changes on the Imate.com website.... there is now a jasjar forum.
I was disapointed on the reply though, please post a few more suggestions in the next couple of days and I will make sure they get to the right ppl
waaranty
I agree with the following they should offer a structured level support. I had to contact them over and over it took me 3 days to get a resolution(turn it in for service) from the maunfacture and now they tell me that my device should have been serviced, however the service center topps says they can't get supplies. Imate says that the parts are comming in. I was promised 2 times that my device would be ready and now they wont return my emails. I have a 12 month warranty and my phone will take 1 month to fix? This isn't right.
Problems with jas jar
Please find copy of email sent to Imate repair centre and expansys Uk, after my frustrating telephone calls to expansys. No answer as of yet.
Dear sirs,
I have recieved a Imate JASJAR back from I-mate repair centre today.
They have had the product for 40 days.
The JASJAR has been returned with an IMEI sticker cut out and placed over the original sticker.
The screen is in Arabic and English.
I have tried to do a hard re-set but the setting shows Vodaphone Bahrain or Kuwait.
I cannot get an answer from the Tel 0870 2000995 (I-mate repair centre).
I have spoke to expansys about my dissatisfaction and requested a replacement item. I have been informed that it is nothing to do with expansys and I have to return the JASJAR back to the I-mate repair centre.
I understand that products do go wrong from time to time but the above shambles leaves me with no faith in Expansys or I-Mate repair centre.
To be told by expansys that they do not have to conform to the sale of goods act is disgraceful.
I therefore request a re-fund on the product within the next 7 days. I am passing a copy of this letter to our solicitors with a view to compensation and to Vodafone and our local trading standard officer.
Please find below items from the sales of goods act.
FACTSHEET and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.
Q2. Do I only have rights for 30 (or some other figure) days after purchase?
No. Depending on circumstances, you might be too late to have all your money back after this time, but the trader will still be liable for any breaches of contract, such as the goods being faulty. In fact, the trader could be liable to compensate you for up to six years.
PAN
lack of PAN bluetooth network possibility in WM5 roms.
I tried using the forums in the past, they were useless and totally uninformative.
The online help was pathetic "couldnt find anybody", then every subsequent attempt states that the capability has timed out.
The support people when I did get through once said that they would forward information to me, which they never did.
I would suggest in your forums that you just post a link back to this site, it is a lot more helpful, and a lot more informative than yours.
I would also suggest that you provide clear time frames for patches and fixes, rom updates etc so that we know what and when. If you make a commitment to a date, you do it, you dont refuse to publish a date so that times can slip and slip and slip away with buyer confidence constantly dwindling.
During the massive period between ROM updates, I think you should be able to release quicker smaller patches of bugs that are obvious.
I find this statement on your website totally misleading...
Under Investigation
Playback of video clips in full screen mode in Media Player will not stretch to fill the screen.
Why dont you all acknowledge (seeing as this was published immediately back in October over 6 months ago), that you are not investigating, that this sucks and we are stuck with it.
Further
• The Skype™ logo may take a few seconds to load the first time that the Programs menu is viewed.
This is a real real pain in the ass, a few seconds is a joke, as soon as you scroll down to that icon, wham wait and wait and wait, painful and I am sure a quick patch could fix this, I believe users of this forum have already fixed it.
and for that matter, all the others.... at what point do you stop investigating and start fixing? How about putting some dates beside each and state these will be fixed by.....? Then list all the others that you have absolutely no intention of fixing at all.
Fix the battery please.... we want our clock back. I have already had to download and install a fix from this website to remedy your two line today screen plug in down to one very narrow line. But I dont want that, I want my clock back.
If you are going to insist on a battery icon, how about one that has a little bit more scale than Full, nearly less than 3/4 full, and empty!!
How about a VGA screen? Rather than advertising one, then not actually enabling and using it. If people can download and hack, why not you guys with all your resources and the capabilities and support of the team.
I simply do not understand why the users of this fourm can do what your organisation cannot.
Battery is now running low, will be back with more.
re VGA
look here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=47088
Now why cant you guys do and support this sort of simplicity.
You do advertise a VGA device dont you!!!
firebutice said:
Hello,
I've found club i-mate annoying. I run a small consulting company and we use several i-mate phones (rebranded and provided by a local carrier). I've tried to register some of these on club i-mate but keep being told the IMEI numbers are not valid (despite them being new and from a local carrier, T-mobile).
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-Mobile get their kit direct from HTC, as do most operators. If it isn't branded i-mate then it isn't an i-mate. It may be the same device but you can only expect support off i-mate, qtec, dopod, O2, T-Mobile, etc etc if it is actually branded as being their incarnation of the HTC model.
oh yeah, the other thing that really really really annoys me, your camera function will not:
1. Extend to the full size of the screen during video view finder. When I emailed Imate they said it would be fixed in later releases. But it isnt even on the website as being under investigation. Trying to get that camera video to work in an itsy bitsy teeny weeny poka dot screen is a joke. I love the videos, but hate the view finder. It can be related to the camera itself, the pictures take in full screen just not the videos.
2. Will not allow pictures to be taken in portrait mode.
3. Has totally appalling resolution. I have a 2 mega pixel camera, and compared to the 2 mega pixel of the phone it is about 1000 times better in quality, clarity, resolution, and colour depth.
i dont see much feedback from "being heard"
suppose it was just bull and marketing feel good propoganda without any real intention of actually doing anything about it...
BLUETOOTH PAN SUPPORT IN WM5!!!!!!!!!!
i revile imate
I purchased this alleged phone/pda and experienced numerous missed calls. I tried numerous times to get "live" online service and got so angry with the techs online, that I had to resort to vulgarity to get their ****ing attention. it was absolutely and appallingly horrible. I can go on and on. I wrote a lenghty email to an individual who seemed to care, but who cares.
This is my 5th pda and my last I-mate. I-mate blows.
edved.
battery life or lack thereof...
Every imate owner I know complains of poor battery life. Now I know what they're talking about. my hp6340 could go 12 hours with wi-fi and cell phone running simultaneously. I'm lucky to get 6 hours with this unit. why can't I turned down the brightness further without it turning black?
edved.
battery
look at the diffrence in capacities to solve your battery problem
Re: battery
sandrobber said:
look at the diffrence in capacities to solve your battery problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand your suggestion. As far as I know, both were the same capacity.
edved.
i have to agree with what simon says...
simon_darley said:
i dont see much feedback from "being heard"
suppose it was just bull and marketing feel good propoganda without any real intention of actually doing anything about it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe imate telling us that we will be heard just makes for good press, b/c in actuality if they were really interested in pleasing their customer base, they would have had to simply look no further than their online forum for direction.
Their forum has to be one of the worst one's that I have had the unfortunate experience of subscribing to. Throughout their forum you frequently see questions or suggestions go unanswered or simply ignored. This company I believe is interested simply in taking the money and run. How else can you explain the fact, that somoeone who buys a used imate is required to pay an exhorbitant fee of $60 for the privilege of upgrading their rom. Does any other company do this? I purchased my JJ new, but a colleague opted to forgo the update and save his cash.
I had a nightmare episode with their "online support" more abuse then support and this has left a really bad taste in my mouth.
edved.
Hmm... what is their contact phone number for support? becuase I cant get any help through their forum, email, or "live" support so i should get them a call. Their contact info isnt posted on their site.
email
[email protected]
Hello everyone.
I've been searching the forums and have yet to find a solution (at least one that I can perform).
Any way, I have a Softbank X01HT which is a re-branded HTC Hermes.
I purchased the phone in September 2007 from a shop in Hong Kong. I live in the UK and have been using my phone happily for the past 5 months. My phone was blacklisted bout 2 days ago and despite having kept the original box and receipt from the store as a proof of purchase, it seems there is nothing my network (T-Mobile) is able or willing to do.
Is there anything I can do to legally lift this Blacklist of my phone? If not does anyone know how to change the IMEI.
At the moment, I feel very upset about all this because I have bought this phone legitimately and have been using it for 5 months, and NOW... someone can just blacklist my phone?
I have read that there is a solution by using 'Wizard Service Tool' but I need to do something like change it's SPL to 1.1.1. Does anyone know where to obtain the SPL 1.1.1 and how to install it?
Thank you for much in advance and please please please spare me from comments like 'ITS ILLEGAL'. I realize that by UK law it is a crime punishable by 5 years imprisonment. However I have a genuine phone that was purchased legally and I have everything to go with it! If changing the IMEI of a phone that I own to an IMEI of another phone I own is illegal.. well.. thats just stupid.
dont know of any way to change the imei but
you could try to contact the police and ask their advice
being that it's usualy them who have the stolen phone's
imei's reported to and who have them blocked
i would likely have some advice
screen rotation icon for imate jasjar
after having my imate jasjar upgraded to wm-6, i lost 2 things, my video calling and the screen rotation icon. does anyone here in the xda family have a link that will restore my screen rotation icon back
Isnt that a bit off-topic harrio?
Thanks for the advice Rudegar but I have already contacted the police. They can find no record of a stolen phone with that IMEI and they even reffered me to the Mobile Crime Unit, who dont have any idea about the number being blacklisted. They recomended I talk to my network who said they cannot/will not do anything.
it would make sense to be that there would be some higher place to take it
to make sure that no phone company blacklisted phones of people who simunlocked and
left the company for the compatitions
maybe thats a thing to look into
first step would prob be to try another network sim to make sure that it's a general blacklist
Yeh I have tried. It seems to be blacklisted on most netwokrs but works on Orange.. strange? The funny thing is I bought the phone without a contract already unlocked in Hong Kong so there would be no reason for the network to even blacklist it.
In Australia, we have a "Telecommunications Ombudsman" who we can escalate matters to after exhausting options with our phone company.
Is there something like that for you?
It does sound unfair - good luck with it.
Oggy.
Contact the Citizens Advice Beaurau. There must be something you can do.
If all else fails get the police/mobile unit to give you some kind of written confirmation on headed letter paper that there is no ban on your number.
Send t-mobile a friendly worded but grievence stating email about there having banned your phone for an undescernable reason. State in it the dates and times of your previous calls.
Then get your hands on a legal 'Cease and Desist' letter template from somewhere and send something like this:
WITHOUT PREJUDICE: IMMEDIATELY CEASE AND DESCIST.
Dear Sir,
I am contacting your company (Herafter refered to as 'You') on behalf of *your name* (Hereafter refered to as 'The Client') to inform you that Your blacklisting of The Client's phone is unlawful. This letter calls for you to immediately cease and descist from all such unlawful actions.
Blah blah blah
You'll find templates and guidance for drawing them up on the net. Works much better if you can find the name of some applicable law to drop in.
Make sure you don't specifically state that legal proceedings will definately follow. State that if they fail to comply then legal actions 'may' follow and that their case will be refered to the business ohmbudsman, trading standards, and your local MP.
I should state right off the bat that I'm not a lawyer - I'm a medic. But I have found that cease and desist letters are sufficient to make most organisations instantly start behaving themselves.
Don't forget the 'Without Prejudice' statement - I believe it means something along the lines of you do not wish anything said in the email to harm your rights to compensation etc....It's a very lawyerly phrase anyway so it's always good to chuck in the mix.
You should be able to find guidelines/templates for cease and descist letters on the net
Good Luck!
Citizens Advice Beaurau? Never heard of them. Are they a British organization?
Just to clarify, here is what I've done.
Contacted my provider T-Mobile. Provided them with Receipt of purchase and a box. They did nothing.
Contacted the police. They have no record of a phone being stolen with my IMEI number. They recomended contacting my provider T-Mobile.
Contacted the mobile crime unit in the UK. They said that that I would have to take it to my provider also as only the mobile phone companies in the UK can unblacklist.
Anything else I can do?
Does T-Mobile UK have shops like in Germany (called "T-Point")?
The people there were always friendly to me and helpful.
Randvegeta,
I would walk down your nearest high street, find a T-Mobile shop, walk in with all your evidence and don't leave until they have sorted it. It is essential that you are polite but firm.
One thing that puzzles me; you live in the UK but have never heard of the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB)? Strange.
WB
wacky.banana said:
Randvegeta,
I would walk down your nearest high street, find a T-Mobile shop, walk in with all your evidence and don't leave until they have sorted it. It is essential that you are polite but firm.
One thing that puzzles me; you live in the UK but have never heard of the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB)? Strange.
WB
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I have a hypothesis... it is only a hypothesis so please don't take offense. It can be tested, but maybe not easily. Here it is. You have been scammed, your hermes is not genuine it is a device that failed QC and was discarded by HTC. Your vendor in HK is dishonest. Contact HTC somehow and ask them about the IMEI, explain your situation and find out if they know anything. They should have a record of every phone they manufactured and may be able to tell you whether yours was sent to a retailer or to the garbage bin.
If I'm right at least you'll know for sure what's wrong.
If I'm wrong... well you know that too and maybe you can advance the ball a bit.
Good luck
Ive already been to a T-Mobile shop. Not helpful at all. I beleive Ive almost exhausted all legal options in the UK at least. I think there are only 3 more options.
1: Contact my supplier and ask for help/replacement.
2: Give up on my phone and let it be lost at my expense.
3: Hack/spoof the IMEI.
I think you'll find that T-Mobile don't have to help you as you purchased the phone from an indipendant supplier unless of course it was them who locked it, you are well within your rights to demand a copy of your account information under the Data Protection Act, this could include your account managent info which may identify whether they locked the IMEI or not. I guess the other option is to try and locate who exactly locked the IMEI, not even sure where to start unless you can find a very helpfuls service engineer at T-Mobile.
As said above, contact HTC, they may be able to help, but your first port of call should be the guy who sold you the device.
The shop I bought from.. im fairly sure is quite reputable. It has been arround for a while and is in in the Wan Chai Computer center. I will of course ask but I do not for a moment believe that they sold me a dodgy phone. And it certainly wasnt defective. It was in perfect condition and everything worked. Besides, there are hundreds of legit shops in HK selling the exact same phone. I just bought it from them cuz they had it in Black.
IMEI Barring.
The Flaw Is In The IMEI Blocking Procedure.
I Used To Work For Vodafone And All That Is Required To Bar A Handset, Is An E-Mail Containing The IMEI Only.
Unblocking A Phone However Is A Very Difficult Procedure. The IMEI Ban Database Is Shared Between All Countries Of The EU. Because Of This Most "Stolen" Phones Are Shipped To The Middle East And HK CH JP etc Who Dont Use This Database.
That Said And Done Tho They Should Know The Reason For The IMEI Ban And If Its Because Somebody Reported That IMEI As A Stolen One They Could Check Your Account And See That Your Account Has Been Using That IMEI for The Last 5 Months. And Therefore Couldnt Possibly Be The Stolen One As The IMEI Has Only Been In The Database A Short While.
Its TOO EASY To Make A Typo And Blacklist A Non Stolen Phone.
Prime Example. Your Phones Broke And Gone In For Repair, You Borrow Your Friends Expensive XDA For 2 Weeks While Your Phone Is Repaired, You Give Your Friend His XDA Back and Then Your Newly Repaired Phone Gets Stolen, You Report Your Phone As Stolen And When They Check The System Your Friends IMEI Is The Last One You Were Using On The Account, Employee Doesnt Check Propperly (Copies And Pastes Your Friends IMEI Into A Blacklist Email) And Your Friends XDA Gets Banned.
It Could Prove Quite A Pain To Resolve This Issue..... But...
Call Your Customer Support Desk For Your Mobile Network.
Ask For A TEAM LEADER/MANAGER ( They Can Do Anything For A Customer To Keep Them Happy, Their Privaledges Exceed Those Of Normal Staff And They Can Sort Problems Beyond The Means Of Your Average Callcentre Staff)
If A Problem Gets Escalated To A TEAM LEADER/MANAGER It MUST Be Dealt With. (Company Policy)
They Might Offer For A Team Leader To Call You Back As Their Usually Busy, Althought Your 100% Guaranteed To Get A Callback By A Team Leader As Long As They Werent Jus Fobbin You Off.
I Wish You The Best Of Luck Sorting Out This Mess.
Hey OllieD,
Sound very in depth. Ive already spent hours with T-Mobile with no luck.. but will Vodafone help me out? At least tell me who blacklisted me.
As for this database, is it only Europe wide? Or is is World wide? And if it is EU wide.. are you 100% sure?
Just to clarify to people reading, I am using a SOFTBANK, (Japanese Brand) purchased in Hong Kong, and have been using it since September.
If it is an EU database and not a world wide one, I will need to find out who blacklisted it and contact them.
Thanks very much!
Since you are using Softbank, so it should not be blacklist as it should not be used in EU before. please check carefully your IMEI on the phone label match your IMEI inside the ROM, I think the shop clone a English rom to your phone before selling to you (original Softbank should be Japanese rom) and this clone the IMEI also which IMEI reported as blacklisted. (they clone the rom because of sim locked and change English, what they called it is hard-modify not soft-modify)
I stayed HK and I had 2 phones with same situation (label IMEI were difference to the ROM) but still can be used in China and HK, 5 more phones buy from another shop without problem.
The shops you buy the phone with the phone came from the same dealer, so no luck to change, only some shops you can trust.
clean imei
Randvegeta said:
Hello everyone.
I've been searching the forums and have yet to find a solution (at least one that I can perform).
Any way, I have a Softbank X01HT which is a re-branded HTC Hermes.
I purchased the phone in September 2007 from a shop in Hong Kong. I live in the UK and have been using my phone happily for the past 5 months. My phone was blacklisted bout 2 days ago and despite having kept the original box and receipt from the store as a proof of purchase, it seems there is nothing my network (T-Mobile) is able or willing to do.
Is there anything I can do to legally lift this Blacklist of my phone? If not does anyone know how to change the IMEI.
At the moment, I feel very upset about all this because I have bought this phone legitimately and have been using it for 5 months, and NOW... someone can just blacklist my phone?
I have read that there is a solution by using 'Wizard Service Tool' but I need to do something like change it's SPL to 1.1.1. Does anyone know where to obtain the SPL 1.1.1 and how to install it?
Thank you for much in advance and please please please spare me from comments like 'ITS ILLEGAL'. I realize that by UK law it is a crime punishable by 5 years imprisonment. However I have a genuine phone that was purchased legally and I have everything to go with it! If changing the IMEI of a phone that I own to an IMEI of another phone I own is illegal.. well.. thats just stupid.
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http://my.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MyeBayAllSelling&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK:MESX
I clean them.
Hello All, as many of you know i have had one of the famous bricked samsung galaxy i9000. Since Bell wont honour my proposal for returning my Cell phone with a receipt (not under my name), i have come to the conclusion that we need action. Below is a site i am going to contact, based out of toronto, if enough people call, we can get this "defective issue" known.
http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/Contact.aspx
I am also in the process of starting a petition but would like the help of people of this forum on to how to go about this.
We need to make Samsung honour their corporation competencies and aknowledge that not EVERYONE will be on contract with BELL. We must take action. I am requesting help from ALL those affected.
thanks
p.s. first way to start is to get the ministry of consumer electronics to acknowledge the defect and we shall start a petition.
Another resource you may want to tap into is the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/complaints/service-providers). They are a third party that attempt to resolve complaints against wireless providers.
Not sure if it applies to you, but take it for what it's worth.
Count me in dude!!! Im tired of not being listened to about my issues with my $500.00 "not fit for purpose" phone!!!
I believe that we not just go after Bell but Samsung as well!!!
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
mymanchris said:
Another resource you may want to tap into is the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/complaints/service-providers). They are a third party that attempt to resolve complaints against wireless providers.
Not sure if it applies to you, but take it for what it's worth.
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thanks for the link, will be looking into that.
yiannisthegreek said:
Count me in dude!!! Im tired of not being listened to about my issues with my $500.00 "not fit for purpose" phone!!!
I believe that we not just go after Bell but Samsung as well!!!
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
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lets start small and see where we get. We need COMMUNITY SUPPORT, and i mean alot of people. 100 or more can be a good start.
You have my support.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
myself as well.
I assume you are referring to the internal memory problem?
Why did they say they wont honor your warranty? You haven't really put much information here.
andrewluecke said:
I assume you are referring to the internal memory problem?
Why did they say they wont honor your warranty? You haven't really put much information here.
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I have the full receipt for my phone and everything, the phone was deactivated and the number is not in service. However, the only thing connected to the current user is a IMEI, which i had called the person who owned it, they didnt know english very well and wouldnt transfer the ownership to me.
This is a flaw in the system.
I am starting a petition to make Samsung and Bell aware that the first batch and alot of the I900m Bell devices have a Internal SD hardware problem. This is a defect, we have witnessed of up to 30% returns on these phones because of this defect alone.
The fact that Bell wont honour their warranty with samsung because of a simple (not having my name) on the receipt is trivial. I had a copy printed out. Samsung needs to recall these devices or at the very least acknowledge something here.
30% failure? Where is that figure from?
And have you tried arguing with Bell for a repair? Or did they simply say no, and you gave up? Did you try to escalate?
By law, you should be able to go to your consumer affairs place anyway, and tell them that Bell wont accept your receipt. I don't think you need a petition.
Class action suit against "samsung" only.. Count me in tooo
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
By the way, when you say return, do you mean repair? Because by law in most countries, they don't have to offer refunds outside the first 2 weeks if the unit is faulty.
This thread needs a lot more details...
I am in also.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
andrewluecke said:
30% failure? Where is that figure from?
And have you tried arguing with Bell for a repair? Or did they simply say no, and you gave up? Did you try to escalate?
By law, you should be able to go to your consumer affairs place anyway, and tell them that Bell wont accept your receipt. I don't think you need a petition.
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i have the receipt but the purchaser of my phone was friend who has now moved to new york. I have no contact with him. And by law bell has to honour its warranty code of conduct, if there is a recepit available.
I am going back tommrow to talk to the http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.Samsung-Galaxywith-Google/69236.details of the store, any tips or suggestions are welcome. I have read people have returned phones even WITHOUT a receipt...and look, oh i HAVE one.....interesting.
edit** the petition was for those who were unlucky and have been turned down by Bell because of no receipt.
That didn't really answer anything.. If you have a receipt, argue with them again, or go consumer affairs, but their warranty code only likely covers REPAIRING!
Do you mean repair or return and where is that 30% failure figure from? By law, they don't need to refund you, unless you have tried replacing it a few times and the problem keeps reoccurring (and you can prove the product is seriously flawed).
I believe you mean repair, but "return" is ambiguous.
andrewluecke said:
That didn't really answer anything.. If you have a receipt, argue with them again, or go consumer affairs, but their warranty code only likely covers REPAIRING!
Do you mean repair or return and where is that 30% failure figure from? By law, they don't need to refund you, unless you have tried replacing it a few times and the problem keeps reoccurring (and you can prove the product is seriously flawed).
I believe you mean repair, but "return" is ambiguous.
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according to Bell it was about 20%-30% of phones were brought back. That is why Samsung held off on the 2nd batch of shipments to fix the internal sd problem, and bells excuse was all the phones were sold out, when really there was a huge backorder.
thanks for clarifiying bud. I do mean Repair. I have the receipt and everything from the folks who bought the phone, the only problem is the receipt is not in MY name. however, i tried contacting the people who had orginally purchased the phone and they wont do anything for me. They dont speak english. So i am going today to argue with the manager of Bell at my mall and tell him that this is straight up bs. Becuase i have all of the required information, the account cancelled their service and got a new phone...ugh its just such a tight situation.
** as for the petition, if you would like your names on it, please inbox me Name, City, and COuntry you are residing in and i will add it. Thanks
I don't know how these things work in Canada, but in Australia a petition is really not going to sway a legal argument. In fact it could prejudice a case, in some circumstances.
I suggest you take the matter up with Bell again. Then talk to Consumer Affairs yourself.
Shouldn't Samsung be your point of contact BTW? I would assume since you have no contract with Bell they should be absolved of any responsibility to service your phone.
In this case the manufacturer would be the people to contact. In 95% of the things I buy have a manufacturers warranty, not a retailers.
I wish you luck, but you really should pursue this on a private basis. If things don't work out then post up your experience. If the do work out then post up how you got around it.
BTW people don't give out your name and location to anybody on the net. I know Jark99 is 95% likel,y to be a nice chap, but giving out details like that is a bit silly.
householddog said:
I don't know how these things work in Canada, but in Australia a petition is really not going to sway a legal argument. In fact it could prejudice a case, in some circumstances.
I suggest you take the matter up with Bell again. Then talk to Consumer Affairs yourself.
Shouldn't Samsung be your point of contact BTW? I would assume since you have no contract with Bell they should be absolved of any responsibility to service your phone.
In this case the manufacturer would be the people to contact. In 95% of the things I buy have a manufacturers warranty, not a retailers.
I wish you luck, but you really should pursue this on a private basis. If things don't work out then post up your experience. If the do work out then post up how you got around it.
BTW people don't give out your name and location to anybody on the net. I know Jark99 is 95% likel,y to be a nice chap, but giving out details like that is a bit silly.
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haha sorry about the "names" thing. I should have suspected that, i just wanted to make sure that we had a legit petition to force a class action law suit.
As for the manufacturers warranty, Apparently Samsung goes through Bell. But NOT really. Bell goes through a intermediary called Futuretec Solutions located in Toronto, Ontario. I have called samsung canada and they wont help me out at all. They keep saying "go to bell, go to bell." Well now im going to give bell a piece my mind, Bell is the only company to carry these phones, thus if there is a problem no one can go elsewhere. its bs. im pretty pissed off and going to show Bell that, yesterday i didnt, but today ill talk to the manager.
get the class action or whatever you guys are trying to do up and going already, and count me in
got 2 phones still waiting to be repaired but can't because they wont allow it without the invoice, even when we offered to pay for the repairs
Attention:
To all who have a internal sd card error and have bought the phone around the release date or afterwards. If you dont have a orginal receipt, go to bell and try to find a service rep who looks kind of new. From there tell them you dont have the receipt and need they might be able to print you out one. I got mine printed out and i went to another Bell Store to get mine sent out even though the phone was NOT under my name. I think the only way to get peoples phones fixed is talking to the right people.
I contacted the Ministry of consumer electronics AND telecommunications services to file a complaint, but i cannot as i am not a BELL member. If anyone is a Bell member and has a 2nd hand phone you can call them to file a complaint, and theyll act as a intermediary between you and Bell. ill keep updating this thread as i find information
Ministry of Telecommunications Service Complaints department:
1-888-221-1687
EDIT*
to those in ONtario this website claims to have fixed interal sd card errors
http://www.mtechservice.com/contacus.html
Count me in. Although mine's been fixed via a third party repair shop, i want my money back.
If you want to hear a worst case scenario with verizon employees and new hardware defects, here you go. Kudos if you read the whole thing, I don't expect most people to...unless you're one of those people with a faulty battery/camera flash/screen/speaker. Then, enjoy and beware.
What follows is a true story.
Thursday 10/30/2014 12pm – Purchase Droid Turbo #1
– Went to Verizon Store and worked with sales associate John to purchase my new droid turbo. I traded in my OG droid razr maxx for $100 rebate, and then John tried to “sell” me a wireless charger for the device by saying he could waive my upgrade fee to apply towards the product. Having already read about the promotion for waived upgrade fees, and knowing it is not only applicable towards products in store (as John was insinuating) I declined, feeling decidedly like John was trying to take advantage of me and the lack of knowledge I may have about current Verizon promotions.
Friday 10/31/2014 –Full Day with Droid Turbo #1
Used Turbo Unit 1 for 24 hrs, after charging to full. My battery drained unusually fast, so that I was getting less than 20 hours on the battery. I took screenshots of my battery reports during two full discharges to demonstrate to reps that the battery was in fact underperforming, knowing that evidence would be useful because it is hard to just look at a phone and tell it has a battery issues.
Saturday 11/1/2014 – Return Turbo #1 for Turbo #2
11am- Returned to Verizon store. I worked with sales associate “Ross” and brought my concerns to his attention. He also frequently made furtive trips to have whispered discussions with Andre, who I assume is his manager, throughout our conversation about my wanting a replacement unit. They did a “test” on my phone in which they just opened up a call and let it sit for 15 minutes, then said “oh it looks like it drained normally.” As if they know, on a phone that is literally 2 days old. I could tell they were bullsh*tting me, they had no interest in looking at the battery data I had saved on the phone demonstrating the VERY fast discharge, and when I expressed my displeasure, Ross again went and had another whispered conversation with Andre, and he came back and said “we want to help you out….” He proceeded to tell me that they would replace the unit for me. He then went into the back and came out with a box in one hand and another Droid Turbo unit in his other hand—I never saw him take it out of the box. He switched my sim card into the unit he brought from the back, and said I had to keep my current box/etc and did not give me the matching box with the unit. Here is the first time I have a unit that doesn’t match my box/IMEI number information. This is despite me requesting the box to keep the serial numbers consistent.
Saturday 11/1/2014 – Later that Day with Turbo #2
When I get Droid Turbo #2 home and start using it that evening in low light conditions, I see that there is a noticeable change in color from the top left to the bottom right of the screen. It was evident in multiple apps, and although subtle, is very apparent when you utilize a graphic designed to test color and brightness consistency on a display. (I used Display Test app, “viewing angle graphic” which demonstrated clearly the screen was not uniform.) I make plans to go in on Sunday and have it exchanged for a unit with consistent color reproduction.
Sunday 11/2/2014 – 11am. – Returning Turbo #2 for Turbo #3
I return to Verizon for the 3rd time in 4 days. At this point, I am feeling decidedly emotionally raw from my previous experiences in which I felt that employees had ZERO interest in what I had to say or show them. I explain that I’m here to have my device replaced because the screen color is not uniform. They immediately get General manager Steven S. to deal with me, and after taking a cursory glance at my unit underneath glaring overhead can lights at the front desk (where you can hardly see the screen anyways) tells me “He doesn’t see a problem.” I am detecting barely contained hostility at this point—I feel that the employees have labeled me as a “problem” to be dealt with. Another employee, Matthew, hovers nearby the entire time I’m dealing with Steven, making me feel even more ganged up on and adding non-helpful comments from time to time. At this point they have made no effort to get any information from me. I needed to tell them that the flaw is visible in dim light, when the screen brightness is turned down lower, and how you can see it in certain apps, etc, but they took a defensive posture from the beginning as though they had already decided I was wrong.
After nearly 90 minutes standing at the counter arguing in front of MANY CUSTOMERS IN THE STORE, that there was a flaw that CAN BE PERCEIVED, I plead for them to just LOOK more closely at what I’m trying to show them. I am at my wit’s end at this point, ready to cancel my contract.
Steven S. finally goes to get a magnifying instrument resembling a jeweler’s loupe, and looks at the test graphic that clearly shows the non-uniform screen through it. HE AGREES THAT HE CAN SEE THAT THERE IS A NON-UNIFORMITY IN THE COLOR REPRODUCTION ON THE SCREEN!!! This is an important point, because later on I am told that “there was no defect found on the units I returned” by Solutions manager Jeff.
Steve S. agrees to replace the unit as defective and tells me Matthew will get my replacement. Matthew then goes into the back and does not emerge for nearly ten minutes. Just to get my unit from the shelf? When he comes out of the back, again, he is holding another turbo unit in one hand, and the box it may or may not have come out of in the other. Like Ross did for my last replacement, Matthew swaps my sim card into the other unit, but does not give me the new box despite my asking to exchange, again, to keep serial numbers consistent.
At this point they could have given me back the unit I had returned the day before and I would not be any wiser. I’m feeling more and more uncomfortable about the lack of transparency in this process, and the way employees at this store are handling my complaints and concerns in general.
I leave the store, vowing never to return and completely emotionally traumatized and exhausted from the process.
When I get home that evening…
…and start to use my Droid Turbo #3….the flash starts to malfunction. At first it just misses timing on a photo every third or so, making photos oddly red and dark. Then, it’s giving an odd “half flash” instead of a fully bright flash occasionally. Solutions Manager Jeff G, sent me text message following up on my customer experience. I responded:
(Mon, 11:31 AM) “the camera flash has been wonky on two occasions, like it isn’t timed right with the shutter..I’ll wait and see how it works out.” He does not respond.
Sunday 11/3 and Monday 11/4 – Turbo #3 Flash Not working at all, periodically.
As I’m testing the camera over Sunday night and Monday morning, the flash stops working completely on three different occasions. Even when set to “always on” the flash has just stopped turning on. It gives a weak “half flash” the first time you try after it’s been sitting a while, then just never turns on again. This happens on and off as I test the camera in various lighting situations. Clearly a malfunction, by any definition.
Again, I text Solutions manager Jeff G:
(Mon 6:49pm) “Hahah crud. My flash no longer works at all. Apparently it wasn’t going to be ok.”
Jeff G responds:
(Mon 7:06pm) “At this point, any manufacture defects needs to go through Motorola directly. We have exchanged 2 devices already for this line we will not be able to exchange out a 3rd device for the same model. If you are still unhappy with this device we can exchange it for a different model phone and we will waive the $35 restocking fee, however, if you feel this is just a manufacture defect you can reach out to Motorola at 800.734.5870 or motorola . com
So according to the Solutions manager , there is a 3 unit limit per customer on models of the same device, despite experiencing manufacturers defects that employees admitted were in fact manufacturer defects?
I respond:
(Mon 7:06pm) “ I didn’t realize there was a limit on manufacturer defects! What would you recommend? Is a non working flash on a phone that has taken less than 50 pictures a manufacturer defect or a feature of the droid turbo? Because I’d love to have your answer on record.”
Jeff G responds:
(Mon 7:13pm) “After reviewing the devices exchanged the manufacture defects that were reported are not currently listed as defects by Motorola as a result the devices exchanged were done as a courtesy as a Verizon customer. Future defects should be reported to Motorola. Again if you are unhappy with this phone we are willing to make a final exception to waive the restocking fee to exchange the device for a different model.”
So, at this point I am insulted and offended. First of all, the devices I returned were not exchanged as a “courtesy”—I had demonstrated and provided evidence, BEYOND WHAT SHOULD EVER HAVE BEEN NECESSARY OF A CUSTOMER YOU WANT TO BE COURTIOUS TO, that each of the devices I exchanged were not performing as advertised. Secondly, he is flat our refusing to honor Motorola’s manufacturer’s warranty, despite the fact that I have had the unit for less than 24 hours and it is in PRISTINE condition.
Can a Verizon employee (Jeff) arbitrarily and retroactively change the terms of your exchange of a defective device? Verizon is contractually obligated to provide you with a device that functions as described, but instead Jeff is saying “basically, we took care of you because you whined about it hard enough.” This is despite the verbal attestation of multiple employees at the location that the defects were indeed noted at my time of exchange.
Tuesdsay, 11/4/2014 – I call Motorola. (Case # XXX-XXXXX)
I take Jeff’s advice and call Motorola- I still want a functioning Droid Turbo. Talk to Tech support about flash issue, they agree to send a replacement unit no problem. They ask me for the IMEI number. This is where the problems created by the employees at the Verizon Store Maple Village come to the surface.
I give Motorola my IMEI on the box (XXXXXXXXXXXXX) —but it doesn’t match my device info in their computers. (Remember how they would not give me the matching boxes with my exchanged devices?)
So we investigate further. Motorola tech has me dial a number that gives me Droid Turbo #3’s internal number. (IMEI: XXXXXXXXXXXXX) I get put on hold…and apparently escalated to Tier 2 tech support because the number I gave them isn’t matching the numbers they should have in their system. Fraud alarm bells have gone off, something about what he saw in the info attached to the IMEE# of my device.
Motorola tells me that the Verizon employees have done something wrong, and perhaps even illegal, in processing my exchanges. He says that I need to return to the store and request a replacement unit, with the matching box, serial numbers, parts, etc. This effects my warranty, and apparently could be related to illegal practices behind the scenes at this particular Verizon store? He’s vague about the details, but says they need to escalate it. He gives me a case number and says I’ll be contacted within 48 hours during the investigation.
In Summary:
I don’t know what to say at this point. I demand as many replacement Droid Turbo models as is necessary until I receive a unit that functions as designed and advertised, without defect or flaw, and not as a “courtesy as a Verizon customer,” but as a “fulfilment of the contractual obligation Verizon has to its customers.” This does not seem to be an unreasonable request, given that I am paying for a product and service.
Update at time of publishing: My camera flash has not malfunctioned in 24 hrs, I don't know if it was just working out the kinks, was software related, or new battery, who knows. I don't. What I do know is I have 0% expectation that I will get a replacement unit, so I'm probably just dropping the turbo instead of risking having an unwarranty-able device with no Verizon support and a potential faulty flash.
Try to get the district manager's contact info - they will be able to help you out.
That sucks man. I do have a couple things to say (I know you're mad and I don't blame you for being mad but just some insight on the phone issues not Verizon I won't back them up) I got the Turbo as well and as far as the battery goes.....the first day it's going to suck. Smartphones aren't going to be perfect out of the box because they haven't experienced real world scenarios yet. Phone's batteries can take up to 2 days sometimes more to become for lack of a better term calibrated. My battery was the same but I let it do it's thing and now I get over 24hrs if not close to 40. Yes I'm concious about how I use it but it performs really well. Also your IMEI# is under setting>about phone>status. You don't need the box. One final thing and I'm not assuming anything but....there was an update that came basically the same day this phone went on sale. Now I don't know exactly what the update was for but it may or may not have fixed some of the problems you were having.
As far as Verizon....yeah they didn't treat you right. I'm sorry they did that to you and the reason for this post was again to help you. I noticed you joined xda just this month so I'll say this. This site does a really good job at helping people with issues/questions with their phones. Sometimes it's better to look around on the site or other sites to see what if any other kind of problems other users are having. I am here everyday to read up on things that I may have missed. I mean I spent $600 on the phone, I want to know as much as I can about how to fix or take care of it. No it's not on us as users to fix the problem of a company's mistakes. But sometimes it can produce better results. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions or just to let me know what you think.
Can you just return the phone since you are still in the 14 day return period and get something else?
I dont want to sound like an *** because I have sympathy in wanting a "perfect" phone... but none of the issues you are describing sound like 'manufacturer's defects' to me.
A manufacturer defect is something like: the phone doesnt hold any charge, or half the screen is white, or there is no speakerphone.
"unusually fast drain" of the battery is totally subjective. the screen color issues have already been noted as simply being the result of the quality of the screens in general.
Again, I get you're not happy with the phones, but it may just be that your expectations are too high. the whole sim card swap and holding onto the box thing is wierd though.
rajuabju said:
I dont want to sound like an *** because I have sympathy in wanting a "perfect" phone... but none of the issues you are describing sound like 'manufacturer's defects' to me.
A manufacturer defect is something like: the phone doesnt hold any charge, or half the screen is white, or there is no speakerphone.
"unusually fast drain" of the battery is totally subjective. the screen color issues have already been noted as simply being the result of the quality of the screens in general.
Again, I get you're not happy with the phones, but it may just be that your expectations are too high. the whole sim card swap and holding onto the box thing is wierd though.
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I agree, knowing what I know now about battery new battery cycles, I may not have ever even taken that first one back. In fact, I wish to god I hadn't, because the flash and screen on that one were functioning and consistent (and up to my high standards )
Honestly I am just looking at changing to another model...I just don't think there's another one I want right now, I waited 3 years for the Droid Turbo and I want a good one damnit.
I had some MAJOR issues with Verizon over the past week, spent over 12 hours on the phone with them, spoken with 7 different Reps, until I had enough. I called their Corporate Office......Ezekiel took care of my issues in ONE phone call, AND I was credited for my inconvenience. I've been a Verizon Customer for 8 years, have 7 lines with them, spend, on average, $5500 a year on Service, more if I buy devices (I've bought 4 tablets from them over the past two years my latest being the Note Pro 12.2) and I regularly upgrade my phones out of contract. IF you're having issues again, I'd recommend giving this guy a call, or call their Executive Offices in New York.
I've removed the personalized message and Case Number, but this is the Contact Info for him directly.
If you have additional concerns, please contact me at (770)-521-5633. My office hours are 8:00am– 4:00pm EST Monday through Friday.
Regards,
Ezekiel Fields
Executive Relations
Im perplexed that you didnt just return the phone. There is nothing wrong with our droid turbos but im starting to hate them and i expect to just return them. I dont mind restock fees to get rid of something i dislike
Don't take this too harshly bro but, your being a **** about all of this. If you don't like the Turbo, take their offer to get something else. Otherwise, STFU. They could tell you to piss off but, they are trying to make you happy and you are refusing. They could ignore your emails and calls and tell you you are delusional and let you be stuck with what you have. Here they are though, eating cash hand over fist exchanging phones for you and you persist. If Motorola tells Verizon that your problem isn't a problem, Verizon eats the phone. At $700 a pop, no matter how loyal a customer you are, there is going to come a time when it's just more profitable to let you walk.
Verizon swapping out the phones without visibly removing them from a brand new box, or at least providing you with the original retail packaging, is where I feel Verizon has really screwed up. As a customer, without the original packaging and paper trail, you have no way of supporting any proof of purchase or warranty claims (as you have unfortunately discovered). You also have no way of knowing whether or not those devices are actually new devices. Honestly, given the bull**** runaround they have given you on each occasion, I would seriously not be surprised if each of those "new" phones are actually units other customers have purchased and returned, likely for the same reasons you did. They are probably trying to reduce RMA chargebacks for non-defective units so are betting that either customers perceive faults where there are none, or that some poor schlub will get it and not know any better.
I'd definitely try and get in contact with someone in customer relations, maybe post something on their twitter account, that store is dicking you around.
Otherwise, did you have to pay anything for the phone, or did you use Edge? If you paid something for it, if you did so on a credit card, you may want to contact the card company and see what options you can pursue through them.
Honestly I would just return the phone but not getting a matching imei box after stating your defect is ridiculous. Another thing is that they give you two different ones from the back, what is this? A McDonalds and you exchanging a burger because you didn't ask for pickles. That store is ridiculous and I would take my business elsewhere. I've had a couple instances where I see a problem and they don't believe me and they ask coworkers and they agree because they're buddy buddy and have to be a team. It makes you feel uncomfortable, its not their devices, why do they think returning a phone is a problem. Its not coming out of their pockets, its not their 2 year agreement.
Sent from my DROID TURBO 64 GB
xkape said:
Don't take this too harshly bro but, your being a **** about all of this. If you don't like the Turbo, take their offer to get something else. Otherwise, STFU. They could tell you to piss off but, they are trying to make you happy and you are refusing. They could ignore your emails and calls and tell you you are delusional and let you be stuck with what you have. Here they are though, eating cash hand over fist exchanging phones for you and you persist. If Motorola tells Verizon that your problem isn't a problem, Verizon eats the phone. At $700 a pop, no matter how loyal a customer you are, there is going to come a time when it's just more profitable to let you walk.
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You sound like the employees at the Verizon store I have been visiting--trolly. (Troll-y?) Sorry bub, I'm not going to be intimidated into shutting up about real issues with a product I pay money for, not by you, or the managers at my verizon store.
And here I go breaking my rule about not feeding your kind.
zachtheowl said:
You sound like the employees at the Verizon store I have been visiting--trolly. (Troll-y?) Sorry bub, I'm not going to be intimidated into shutting up about real issues with a product I pay money for, not by you, or the managers at my verizon store.
And here I go breaking my rule about not feeding your kind.
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ok
I work for Verizon on the indirect side (non corporate) in Jersey. They totally violated their own return exchange policy. The reason they did what they did..if my logic is correct..is simply give you a different phone without actually processing an exchange because it will make their internal numbers look bad because of how hard VZW Corp is pushing this phone. I got mine day 1 (also from corporate) and my battery also was not perfect day one..but has gotten better. I know the rep I dealt with personally and know he won't try to screw me. I would recommend going to another Corporate store and explaining the situation to them. Be calm and don't be afraid to turn on the poor mes. Don't be angry as anger is simply reciprocated and doesn't force intimidation like everyone thinks..all it does is make people less likely to help you. Avoid that other store like the plague..now and in the future. Any questions..don't be afraid to PM me.
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app
dano1282 said:
I work for Verizon on the indirect side (non corporate) in Jersey. They totally violated their own return exchange policy. The reason they did what they did..if my logic is correct..is simply give you a different phone without actually processing an exchange because it will make their internal numbers look bad because of how hard VZW Corp is pushing this phone. I got mine day 1 (also from corporate) and my battery also was not perfect day one..but has gotten better. I know the rep I dealt with personally and know he won't try to screw me. I would recommend going to another Corporate store and explaining the situation to them. Be calm and don't be afraid to turn on the poor mes. Don't be angry as anger is simply reciprocated and doesn't force intimidation like everyone thinks..all it does is make people less likely to help you. Avoid that other store like the plague..now and in the future. Any questions..don't be afraid to PM me.
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app
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Thank you for the helpful advice. I hear what you are saying about the anger! Unfortunately it tends to be the only emotion left behind after being so thoroughly run around. That at bitterness
I shared my post with the Michigan district managers via e-mail. I'm hoping that they'll care enough about the fraudulent employee practices to get involved.
I'm with the others here that have said you are being a douche about this. Sorry to hear your third and final exchange from Verizon has an actual defect. The battery, as you already admitted was a mistake to exchange for. The screen was also dumb. If you can only detect a problem with a screen in low light with the brightness turned down there is no problem. That is a "perfect" screen by manufacturer standards. The flash sounds like a real problem and I wouldn't be happy with the phone you have now either, but the problem is that you have already returned tm2 phones which testing showed to be "perfect" and now those phones will have to be refurbished and sold as such at a loss for Verizon. They have to make the call to stop exchanging for the same device at some point because not only are you costing them money, you are depleting the stock in that store meaning they may lose customers because the phone they want is no longer in stock.
As far as them walking out of the back with the phone out of the box, I would interperate that as them pulling out the phone and powering it on before bringing it out to you to make sure that it is functioning properly. I'm not sure why they wouldn't give you the boxes, but as someone else pointed out, there's no reason you needed them. As far as Motorola saying they did something "illegal", I'm calling BS. That isn't information they would share with a customer. They would simply tell you to go back to the store or they would exchange/repair your device.
To the guy who works at an indirect store, I worked at one for quite a while too and I would like to share with everyone else that indirect employees are not told anything about internal exchange practices. I don't know for sure that pulling a phone out of the box before bringing it to the counter is or isn't against policy, but I do know for sure that that isn't something an indirect employee would know.
My Turbos should be here tomorrow and I hope they're only as "defective" as the OP's first 2...
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I wish i was b.s'ing about Motos fraud investigation--my replacement would be on its way now if it wasn't for this. Tech supp tried to process exchange, ran into "unusual information" associated with my ohones ImEI #, elevated my call to a manager, who asked me more questions, told me verizon employees at the store "really did not take care of me," and that they have to open an investigation into the store's practices, putting my replacement on hold--he said the words suspected fraud. *shrug*
rhouse1983 said:
That sucks man. I do have a couple things to say (I know you're mad and I don't blame you for being mad but just some insight on the phone issues not Verizon I won't back them up) I got the Turbo as well and as far as the battery goes.....the first day it's going to suck. Smartphones aren't going to be perfect out of the box because they haven't experienced real world scenarios yet. Phone's batteries can take up to 2 days sometimes more to become for lack of a better term calibrated. My battery was the same but I let it do it's thing and now I get over 24hrs if not close to 40. Yes I'm concious about how I use it but it performs really well. Also your IMEI# is under setting>about phone>status. You don't need the box. One final thing and I'm not assuming anything but....there was an update that came basically the same day this phone went on sale. Now I don't know exactly what the update was for but it may or may not have fixed some of the problems you were having.
As far as Verizon....yeah they didn't treat you right. I'm sorry they did that to you and the reason for this post was again to help you. I noticed you joined xda just this month so I'll say this. This site does a really good job at helping people with issues/questions with their phones. Sometimes it's better to look around on the site or other sites to see what if any other kind of problems other users are having. I am here everyday to read up on things that I may have missed. I mean I spent $600 on the phone, I want to know as much as I can about how to fix or take care of it. No it's not on us as users to fix the problem of a company's mistakes. But sometimes it can produce better results. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions or just to let me know what you think.
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These are the types of guys that make XDA awesome
I really appreciate the kind words sir. I've always felt this is a place where users are supposed to help each other. And as I have been a person (lurker really) who has used this site since my droid x days I felt the new guy needed some assistance. Again thanks. As far as my on topic point, Verizon didn't help the situation and that sucks but again I feel as users sometimes it's better to try to figure out the problem yourself cuz when you add more people to the mix it can get sloppy. XDA is the place you can always go for guidance.
cstone1991 said:
I'm not sure why they wouldn't give you the boxes, but as someone else pointed out, there's no reason you needed them..
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Stop being stupid. When purchasing a new product, you expect it to come with an original retail manufacturing box. That box and internals should match the product purchased, period. Otherwise there would be no point in manufacturers investing time and money into labeling each box with specific serial numbers, model numbers, etc.
Has for the OP -
I had to exchange my Droid Turbo 32GB BN due to a defect as well, though my Verizon experience was much different than the OP during exchange. When exchanging my unit, I was very professional & civil about my complaint, it can make all the difference in the world.
The Exchange:
I was approached immediately upon entering my local Verizon store and greeted by an employee named Jason. I informed Jason to accompany me to the location of the demo display units and personally began explaining to him the differences between devices.
Jason was very hesitant at first, but I quickly produced alternative examples with more detailed information and replicated the issue in real time. Jason at this point was in agreement with me but not fully committed to exchange the device as he had to get manager approval. This transaction took a total of about 5 minutes, from the minute I stepped into the store.
The manager, Jeff, approached the sales counter at this point and spoke briefly with Jason. Immediately the manager began asking the same questions Jason did before hand. In which case I explained to Jeff the same information provided previously with Jason. This transaction took roughly 4 minutes.
Manager gives the go ahead, but before I let him walk away I immediately ask him if they had the 64GB in stock as they did not have it previously. Manager confirms stock, in which I inform him I am willing to pay the difference minus the restocking fee. Manager agrees, Jason retrieves the new Turbo 64GB in an unopened box and begins activation. I quickly ask to see the device and inspect it before he proceeds to make sure it does not have the same issues/defects. Everything looked fine, I give the go ahead. This transaction took 6 minutes.
At this point, while waiting for the activation process, I strike up a nice conversation with a couple of the employees around the counter (as it was slow for them at the time). I bring up the question of how many Turbo units they had sold in the past couple days. The numbers were surprising, around 23 units locally in two days (not including online). They even went so far as to inform me about the limited edition employee version with red metal trim to match Verizon branding and two of the four employees present were actually using Turbos personally.
Activation goes through, I am handed the retail box that matches the unit sold and a receipt with the cost difference. No restock fee applied, only the upgraded capacity valued. They put my exchanged unit in a box, but I inform them to take it out and reset as I did not perform that. They hand me the phone, letting me take care of the reset. I finish reset and complete our exchange.
I thank Jason for his time, we shake hands. I locate and approach the manager Jeff, thank him for his time and shake hands. I do this, so that at this point I establish a connection. Chances are they don't care and I'm immediately forgotten the minute I leave and that is fine. The point is if I have to come back again, I more likely made a bigger positive impact than running in flipping tables
At this point the total time spent from the moment I enter to exiting the store was roughly 28 minutes, chalk it up to 30 give or take.
Sorry you had a bad experience all around, but a little generosity and professionalism can go a long way. (Not aimed at you specifically, don't get defensive)
TL;DR: They did not treat you properly and you have a right to complain.