My phone provider (carphone warehouse UK - O2) made a mistake when I ordered my XDAII, and accidentally sent me another device
I haven't told them that I have received it, and they haven't contacted me to reclaim it (it's been quite a while).
Does anybody know the situation regarding using it, or selling it. Would the IMEI have been registered with a lost/stolen list, and would using it as a phone cause an identity message to be received somewhere, and for carphone warehouse or O2 (or the police!) to investigate.
I wouldn't mind using it myself, as my primary XDAII has a slightly annoying dead pixel in the display. Or should I avoid using it on a phone network and just use it as a experimental PDA.
Anybody know the legals on this? IANAL, but I beleive if you receive unsolicited goods then you have a right to keep them.
Feckin' dead pixels! I got one too. But the myxda.com site states that up to 3 dead dots is acceptable
If you use the device, be aware that the call timers can't be reset yet. So, if you clock up a coulple of hours and then have to give it back, they could charge you.
TTFN
Call them !
Andy
Forget it, call them and make arrangements for a return (or event better, return the one with the dead pixels).
Thank them for sending you the replacement and return the bad one.
If you sell it, I am certain you are guilty of fraud and could get a jail sentence or serious fine depending on the mood of the judge.
keeping it probably won't get you nailed, as you were merely waiting for return instructions (you did call them remember ?)
Personally I would go for a return of the bad XDA and keep the good one. It would keep you consious clean and you would benefit from their mistake.
I am sure they have the IMEI somewhere, and you can be traced anywhere using that.
Also don't forget that someone from the shop may be reading your post here - or someone may decide to forward the mail to carphone warehouse. If your name is anywhere close to your user name, they can prove that you are no longer in good faith.
It's not worth it.
Regards
Michael
Thanks, I'm pretty law abiding, so I don't really think I could have kept it with a clear conscience. I'll give CPW a call and see what they say.
Well just called CPW, and basically they didn't have a clue (as usual).
They just told me to return it to the store that I got it from (huh?). Anyway, I'll pop into my local CPW this lunchtime and see what they say.
I think I'm within my rights to keep it (see below), but it's presently just taking up space in my office.
The new rules provide for unsolicited goods (meaning those where the recipient has no reasonable cause to believe that they were sent with a view to their being acquired for the purposes of a business and where the recipient has not agreed to acquire or return them). The recipient may, as between himself and the sender, "use, deal with or dispose of the goods as if they were unconditional gift to him…. The rights of the sender to the goods are extinguished".
The Directive also exempts the consumer from the "provision of any consideration" in cases of unsolicited supply. In this context, in their 1999 consultation the DT1 said that they considered this to mean that the consumer is under no obligation to enable the supplier to retrieve the goods and services but can treat them as his or her own property from the time of receipt. That is what the new regulations now provide.
http://www.humphreys.co.uk/articles/e_commerce_1.htm
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Andy, if you feel bad about keeping it send it to the developers for "safekeeping". The imei will not be blocked as the procedure for stolen/lost phone hasnt been triggered.
I hada phone stolen b4, and i sked TMO to block the imei#, and all they sed they could do, was to suspend my line, an block that sim.....wut kinda bull**** is this!?
In the UK it's become law that Phone companies have to work together to allow blocking and reporting of phones on a device basis (ie IMEI) for crime prevention, so O2 are definitely capable of this.
Note this message doesn't have anything to do with sims (I only have one of those); just the physical phone hardware.
Anyway, didn't make it to CPW this lunchtime, but will try tomorrow and report back with any news. Are there any lawyers (or UK phone co employees) out there who'd care to give their opinion?
Criminal law
As an English criminal lawyer I believe you would be committing a criminal offence under s.1 of the Theft Act 1968 which carries a maximum sentence of up to 7 years imprisonment and an unlimited fine in the Crown Court. Although as it's likely to be your first offence then you are likely to be fined only.
The basic definition is that you dishonestly
appropriate
property
belonging to another
with the intention of permanently depriving
Obviously the main issue is whether you acted dishonestly. The fact that you had a genuine belief that you are morally justified in acting as you did is no defence if you knew that ordinary people would consider your conduct to be dishonest. (R v Ghosh (1982)). No doubt the CPS (Crown Prosection Service) would try to say that an ordinary person should/would try to contact the carphone wharehouse.
Personally I don't see why you have to travel to the the car phone wharehouse. You should notify them them and ask them to collect and ask them to reimburse you if they don't collect it by a certain date to compensate you for your inconvienience.
Ok hope that helps !
Can any of you guys help me with my memory loss problem ? and where to get a 1gb SD card ?
Eek - bit of a scary tone to the posting, but thanks anyway.
Btw - they sent it to me without asking, so I rather doubt it would be covered by the theft act otherwise people could post things to people they disliked and then call the police. As I had no idea what to do with it, and expected CPW to send a courier to pick it up, I just shoved it under my desk and forgot about it.
He did not appropriate the goods, it was unsolicited, he has attempted to return it to the company that sent it, they told him to return it to the shop he got it from, he didnt get from a shop, he has never acted dishonestly and has not instigated the supply of the phone. I had some stuff delivered to my address, I was told to inform the company and if they didnt pick it up in a reasonable time the property was mine, they didnt pick it up, I kept it. I never asked for it in the first place neither did this guy with the phone, I dont think it is his responsibility once he has advised the company of the error, it is not up to him to be attempting to solve a problem not of his making and he should not incur any expense, or inconvenience because of a company error.
In the US, I believe the law is, if someone sends something to you that you didn't ask for, its yours. Obviously, it may be different in the UK. But I would still return the one with the dead pixels. I was fortunate to get a good one with all working pixels and it would bug me beyond belief to have a dead pixel
Appropriates
is defined as any assumption of the rights of an owner, if the defendant came came by the property (innocently or otherwise ) without stealing it and later assumed a right to it by keeping it he has appropriated it. That was defined in the case of R v Hinks 2001.
The Theft Act 1968 provides that appropriation in the following circumstances is not dishonest if the defendant believed the other person would have consented had the other person known of the appropriation and the circumstanes of the appropriation or if the defendant believed the person to whom the property belonged (ie to CPW) could not be discovered by taking reasonable steps.
As for your example of sending unsolicited items and calling the police - would only apply if they kept hold of the items and didn't bother to find the owner. Eg you can find something in the street and keep and be found guilty of theft.
I know many people may not agree with this but that is the law as defined by statute and common law. Now at the end of the day whatever you do is up to you and I wish you the best of luck.
ps anyone got any ideas about my memory loss
Thanks for the info - we all know UK law's a right old monster of "spaghetti code", rather you than me. I'll stick to Windows development
Anyway, I shall attempt to get CPW to retrieve their goods, with minimal cost/effort on my part. I'm certainly not going to post it to them. Basically I don't need it, and I'd definitely feel "criminal" selling it.
As for your memory loss - and I presume we're talking pocketPC, rather than Korsakov's syndrome - I'll get back to you on that one in your topic.
Just keep it they make to much money ripping people off and they wont notice its gone.
I think intent to "permanently deprive" the owner is a term used, so if you just used it and then if and when you were asked to return it, you did so, then the intent to permanently deprive the righful owner isnt an issue. He has informed them of the mistake, that is his sole obligation as far as I can see.
Regarding the note on finding property in the street: I once found a cheque book and saw that it belonged to a Doctor. Maybe it was a holiday weekend, but my logic suggested I should try to contact the owner directly (I think there was a phone number). Anyhow, I couldn't get hold of him, so took it to my local poloce station.
Imagine my surprise when I had to wait while they took details of myself then proceeded to record every cheque stub transaction.
When I informed the Police that I had tried to call the owner directly they said that I should never attempt to do so, because if there had been a subsequent allegation of fraud against me I would (apparently) have been in big trouble.
I suppose the point here is not to assume anything.
In your case I would write a letter to CPW head office, making it clear you have received unsolicited goods and giving them a resonable deadline in which to collect these at your convenience.
Write to head office and suggest that they come and get the stuff.
Otherwise in 30 days from the letter you will consider the equipment to be yours.
I think this is legal as the Citizens Adviice people recommended this when I had a load of books from some crappy book club that I never asked for arrive on my doorstep. They sent a courier round.
They tried to tell me to post it back then claim the postage from them - YEAH - like I'd trust them to pat me back!
Oh - make sure it's all at YOUR convenience. No trips to the PO or waiting in for the courier!
I admire your honesty - I think I may have kept the XDA.
You are going to keep the good unit aren;t you? Not the one with the duff pixels? After all - you don't know which one is yours really do you?
Yeah, i've informed them over the phone, and they promised a courier on Friday - surprise surprise nobody came. That citizens' advice bureau advice sounds good, so I might put it in writing.
Hi,
We receive unsolicited equipment through the post all the time.
It is NOT your responsibility to chase them up.
If they atempt to recover the property and persue it if you resist, then it could go either way in court. They may try to pin something on you, like you said the first one did arive.
Its good practice to call them anyway, and give them a time limit to collect it, and if you despise carephone warehouse as much as i do, charge them an admin fee lol (that IS within your right, and in fact you can keep it until they pay up)
Toxic.
Related
Hi all,
My Universal (XDA Exec) power connector is on its way out.. started off with intermittently not being able to charge/sync, tried waggling the cable around worked for a while, but now it's to no avail..
Typically it's happened exactly 1 month after the 1 year warranty has run out.
So, can anyone recommend a repair shop in the UK to fix said problem ?
many thanks!
Don't be fobbed off that you only have a 1 year warranty. By UK and EU law, you have at least 2 years and under English law you have a warranty for as long as one should expect such an item to last. Indeed, the law is balanced in the consumer's favour for the first SIX years where the onus is to prove it *wasn't* a fault in the unit. After that, you have to prove it was.
Take a look at open.gov.uk and read up on the Sales of Goods Act.
From a letter I recently wrote to a vendor refusing to honour my statutory rights:
The advertisement clearly states that the item is "New" and that you are a commercial vendor and therefore I have statutory rights to a warranty not less than 2 years, set out not only in Article 2 of the Product Warranty Directive in European law but also in the Sale Of Goods Act 1979, Sale and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumer Regulations 2002.
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Not only that, if you bought it mail order, you shouldn't even be out of pocket for the return of the faulty goods. From the Sale of Goods Act:
"the business is not entitled to charge for recovery of the goods if the consumer has a statutory right to cancel the contract under other legislation, (for example because they are defective)"
That said, don't go in all guns blazing. Ask politely and most retailers will take the goods back for repair/replacement. My rule of thumb is ask nicely once, firmly but politely once and read them my rights the third time.
Also, don't be fooled into believing the warranty is with the manufacturer. Your contract is with the company who sold the (new) unit to you and it is their responsibility to honour it. So when they say "you'll have to send it to the manufacturer" you can reply "I'll make it available for collection by you or your agents and how you proceed with a replacement or repair is not of my concern, as long as I'm not without a comparable unit for an unreasonable time."
HTH
Thanks for your reply..
I just got off the phone to o2 and they said..
"It's out of Warranty.. the Warranty lasts as long as your Contract, i.e. 12/18 month contract = 12/18 month Warranty. After that, you can just get a free upgrade to a new phone (or the same phone).."
Mentioning your above facts of being at least 2 years Warranty by law didn't sway him in the slightest, he just re-iterated that I could get an upgrade..
However, It's slightly more complicated in that i've just left o2 and changed to t-mobile for a better data tariff.. so it doesn't appear as though i have a lot of leverage.
Don't let that deter you. When on the telephone, always ask for the name (first and last. If they say "we can't give out last names" ask if they are the only Debbie/Malcom/whatever there and how to be sure of speaking to them next time you call), office and extension number of the person to whom you are speaking, always note it down. If they'll give it, get their email address and follow up the conversation with an email saying "Following on from my call to you at 15:30 this afternoon (8th Nov 2006), this is my understanding of conversation. You stated that the warranty supplied by O2 on telephones is limited only to the period of the contract even if this is against my statutory rights, as laid out in the Sale of Goods act and other relevant laws."
If you don't get satisfaction from the person on the telephone, insist on speaking to their supervisor. If they are no better, go the next step up. Always be firm, polite and stick to your guns. If you get nowhere, ask for the postal address of the highest person you spoke to and the name and address of their manager. Right a letter, sent recorded delivery, to the them both, sent signed-for delivery, similar to the one I posted earlier. Give them a reasonable period to resolve the issue (10 working days / 14 calendar days from the date of receipt of the letter for refund, 20 working days / 28 calendar days for repair is ample). If that doesn't work, your second letter (if possible, going to the next person up the chain too) should state that you'll proceed to take them to court (small claims track) as you are within your statutory rights. State if if go to court, you will also seek expenses including but not limited to time off work to attend court and for meetings with solicitors, any solicitor and court fees that may be incurred, travel to and from solicitors and court, but you are will accept your replacement, repair or refund if the matter is resolved in the next 14 days. Next step is trading standards and CAB. After that, it's court (you'll win).
Don't let people push you around. These are you LEGAL rights. Big companies try it on all the time. So far, I've not had to get past the written letter stage, but I've been up against Virgin Internet, T Mobile, NTL, the AA and other big companies. When they know you won't give up and they know that you're fully aware of your rights, they will resolve the matter.
And on the subject of O2, they have been utterly hopeless.
considering I'm supposed to have 24 business support, it's taken them almost a week to replace my handset (which I've had less than 2 weeks) and then they've sent me out one that's clearly been used (albeit not much: it had 9 seconds of outgoing calls on it. Probably one a salesman has played with/demonstrated).
Success
What can I say, except thank you xiasma!
After a nicely crafted email quoting the statutory rights info you mentioned below to O2 careline, they informed me that O2 actually offer a full 2 year warranty for XDA's. Even though I've since moved to T-Mobile, it matters not, I just had to take the unit to an O2 store along with proof of purchase.
No hassle at all from O2 shop, they just took my details and phone and told me to wait 7-10 days.
2 weeks later (hence no update till now) I am now the proud owner of a new (ok, refurbed) XDA Exec and a further year warranty.
As a bonus for my trouble, they actually gave me a fully boxed unit, so I now have a spare charger, styluses (stylee ?), case, battery, cables, etc..
Power to the people. or something.
By reading this topic im furious, ive had the exact same problem, went to o2 with the battery connector completely loose, they said that it was at my own fault that this occured and its not covered under warranty, now ive tried fixing it myself and probably f****ed it up more and still doesnt work. I dont know what to do now
Sorry to hear my good news has pee'd you off!
The only thing I can think is that the connector on mine wasn't actually loose or anything, just that it wouldn't take power from the connector. Because yours sounds like physical damage, they (O2) could argue that it may have been dropped or abused in some way.
Don't know what you can do really except try emailing O2 Care and see what they can do for you..
mate your email inspired me to write an email of complaint last night, low and behold they gave me a call this morning and said they are sending me a replacement asap. woah!
i have similar prob in UK with t-mob. USB connector fell inside the pda. I was in shop claiming its under warranty(4 months after purchase). After 30days i got it back unrepaired with statement thats beyond repair (price more than L200). I wrote them letter on 11.11.2006 (delivered to shop same day) with complain that in netherlands t-mob offered customer repair, imate offered waranty repair somewhere (dont know country) - no answer. on 18.11.2006 i sent them warning that if they wont repair, replace ... i'll raise action (i gave them 7days to answer) - they didnt (resp. i got answr via email on 25.11-8days after they recieved my letter). I already sent phone for repair to apexlaptops. I already filled the small claims action, and im waiting for quotation from apex to hand it over to sheriffs court.
Hello All, as many of you know i have had one of the famous bricked samsung galaxy i9000. Since Bell wont honour my proposal for returning my Cell phone with a receipt (not under my name), i have come to the conclusion that we need action. Below is a site i am going to contact, based out of toronto, if enough people call, we can get this "defective issue" known.
http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/Contact.aspx
I am also in the process of starting a petition but would like the help of people of this forum on to how to go about this.
We need to make Samsung honour their corporation competencies and aknowledge that not EVERYONE will be on contract with BELL. We must take action. I am requesting help from ALL those affected.
thanks
p.s. first way to start is to get the ministry of consumer electronics to acknowledge the defect and we shall start a petition.
Another resource you may want to tap into is the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/complaints/service-providers). They are a third party that attempt to resolve complaints against wireless providers.
Not sure if it applies to you, but take it for what it's worth.
Count me in dude!!! Im tired of not being listened to about my issues with my $500.00 "not fit for purpose" phone!!!
I believe that we not just go after Bell but Samsung as well!!!
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
mymanchris said:
Another resource you may want to tap into is the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/complaints/service-providers). They are a third party that attempt to resolve complaints against wireless providers.
Not sure if it applies to you, but take it for what it's worth.
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thanks for the link, will be looking into that.
yiannisthegreek said:
Count me in dude!!! Im tired of not being listened to about my issues with my $500.00 "not fit for purpose" phone!!!
I believe that we not just go after Bell but Samsung as well!!!
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
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lets start small and see where we get. We need COMMUNITY SUPPORT, and i mean alot of people. 100 or more can be a good start.
You have my support.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
myself as well.
I assume you are referring to the internal memory problem?
Why did they say they wont honor your warranty? You haven't really put much information here.
andrewluecke said:
I assume you are referring to the internal memory problem?
Why did they say they wont honor your warranty? You haven't really put much information here.
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I have the full receipt for my phone and everything, the phone was deactivated and the number is not in service. However, the only thing connected to the current user is a IMEI, which i had called the person who owned it, they didnt know english very well and wouldnt transfer the ownership to me.
This is a flaw in the system.
I am starting a petition to make Samsung and Bell aware that the first batch and alot of the I900m Bell devices have a Internal SD hardware problem. This is a defect, we have witnessed of up to 30% returns on these phones because of this defect alone.
The fact that Bell wont honour their warranty with samsung because of a simple (not having my name) on the receipt is trivial. I had a copy printed out. Samsung needs to recall these devices or at the very least acknowledge something here.
30% failure? Where is that figure from?
And have you tried arguing with Bell for a repair? Or did they simply say no, and you gave up? Did you try to escalate?
By law, you should be able to go to your consumer affairs place anyway, and tell them that Bell wont accept your receipt. I don't think you need a petition.
Class action suit against "samsung" only.. Count me in tooo
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
By the way, when you say return, do you mean repair? Because by law in most countries, they don't have to offer refunds outside the first 2 weeks if the unit is faulty.
This thread needs a lot more details...
I am in also.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
andrewluecke said:
30% failure? Where is that figure from?
And have you tried arguing with Bell for a repair? Or did they simply say no, and you gave up? Did you try to escalate?
By law, you should be able to go to your consumer affairs place anyway, and tell them that Bell wont accept your receipt. I don't think you need a petition.
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i have the receipt but the purchaser of my phone was friend who has now moved to new york. I have no contact with him. And by law bell has to honour its warranty code of conduct, if there is a recepit available.
I am going back tommrow to talk to the http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.Samsung-Galaxywith-Google/69236.details of the store, any tips or suggestions are welcome. I have read people have returned phones even WITHOUT a receipt...and look, oh i HAVE one.....interesting.
edit** the petition was for those who were unlucky and have been turned down by Bell because of no receipt.
That didn't really answer anything.. If you have a receipt, argue with them again, or go consumer affairs, but their warranty code only likely covers REPAIRING!
Do you mean repair or return and where is that 30% failure figure from? By law, they don't need to refund you, unless you have tried replacing it a few times and the problem keeps reoccurring (and you can prove the product is seriously flawed).
I believe you mean repair, but "return" is ambiguous.
andrewluecke said:
That didn't really answer anything.. If you have a receipt, argue with them again, or go consumer affairs, but their warranty code only likely covers REPAIRING!
Do you mean repair or return and where is that 30% failure figure from? By law, they don't need to refund you, unless you have tried replacing it a few times and the problem keeps reoccurring (and you can prove the product is seriously flawed).
I believe you mean repair, but "return" is ambiguous.
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according to Bell it was about 20%-30% of phones were brought back. That is why Samsung held off on the 2nd batch of shipments to fix the internal sd problem, and bells excuse was all the phones were sold out, when really there was a huge backorder.
thanks for clarifiying bud. I do mean Repair. I have the receipt and everything from the folks who bought the phone, the only problem is the receipt is not in MY name. however, i tried contacting the people who had orginally purchased the phone and they wont do anything for me. They dont speak english. So i am going today to argue with the manager of Bell at my mall and tell him that this is straight up bs. Becuase i have all of the required information, the account cancelled their service and got a new phone...ugh its just such a tight situation.
** as for the petition, if you would like your names on it, please inbox me Name, City, and COuntry you are residing in and i will add it. Thanks
I don't know how these things work in Canada, but in Australia a petition is really not going to sway a legal argument. In fact it could prejudice a case, in some circumstances.
I suggest you take the matter up with Bell again. Then talk to Consumer Affairs yourself.
Shouldn't Samsung be your point of contact BTW? I would assume since you have no contract with Bell they should be absolved of any responsibility to service your phone.
In this case the manufacturer would be the people to contact. In 95% of the things I buy have a manufacturers warranty, not a retailers.
I wish you luck, but you really should pursue this on a private basis. If things don't work out then post up your experience. If the do work out then post up how you got around it.
BTW people don't give out your name and location to anybody on the net. I know Jark99 is 95% likel,y to be a nice chap, but giving out details like that is a bit silly.
householddog said:
I don't know how these things work in Canada, but in Australia a petition is really not going to sway a legal argument. In fact it could prejudice a case, in some circumstances.
I suggest you take the matter up with Bell again. Then talk to Consumer Affairs yourself.
Shouldn't Samsung be your point of contact BTW? I would assume since you have no contract with Bell they should be absolved of any responsibility to service your phone.
In this case the manufacturer would be the people to contact. In 95% of the things I buy have a manufacturers warranty, not a retailers.
I wish you luck, but you really should pursue this on a private basis. If things don't work out then post up your experience. If the do work out then post up how you got around it.
BTW people don't give out your name and location to anybody on the net. I know Jark99 is 95% likel,y to be a nice chap, but giving out details like that is a bit silly.
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haha sorry about the "names" thing. I should have suspected that, i just wanted to make sure that we had a legit petition to force a class action law suit.
As for the manufacturers warranty, Apparently Samsung goes through Bell. But NOT really. Bell goes through a intermediary called Futuretec Solutions located in Toronto, Ontario. I have called samsung canada and they wont help me out at all. They keep saying "go to bell, go to bell." Well now im going to give bell a piece my mind, Bell is the only company to carry these phones, thus if there is a problem no one can go elsewhere. its bs. im pretty pissed off and going to show Bell that, yesterday i didnt, but today ill talk to the manager.
get the class action or whatever you guys are trying to do up and going already, and count me in
got 2 phones still waiting to be repaired but can't because they wont allow it without the invoice, even when we offered to pay for the repairs
Attention:
To all who have a internal sd card error and have bought the phone around the release date or afterwards. If you dont have a orginal receipt, go to bell and try to find a service rep who looks kind of new. From there tell them you dont have the receipt and need they might be able to print you out one. I got mine printed out and i went to another Bell Store to get mine sent out even though the phone was NOT under my name. I think the only way to get peoples phones fixed is talking to the right people.
I contacted the Ministry of consumer electronics AND telecommunications services to file a complaint, but i cannot as i am not a BELL member. If anyone is a Bell member and has a 2nd hand phone you can call them to file a complaint, and theyll act as a intermediary between you and Bell. ill keep updating this thread as i find information
Ministry of Telecommunications Service Complaints department:
1-888-221-1687
EDIT*
to those in ONtario this website claims to have fixed interal sd card errors
http://www.mtechservice.com/contacus.html
Count me in. Although mine's been fixed via a third party repair shop, i want my money back.
I sold a phone on Ebay to somebody in Cyprus.
The buyer claims he never received it and filed a claim, I lost 300 bucks and a mint HD2.
I found out the buyer now sold a similar phone on Ebay too, approx 3 or 4 weeks after I shipped mine. I was able to get my IMEI number from T-Mobile (very helpful, I was impressed).
Can I find out where my phone is ?
Buyer ID was " closedosier " now he changed to "gericy"
IMEI 357779030232175
Kinda sounds like they pulled a fast one on you and actually got the phone then sold it but told you they did not get the phone. Could T-Mobile not track it with the IMEI? I wish I knew of a definite way for you to track it via the IMEI. I did find this on Google though, here is the whole list Google pulled up. best of luck man.
Did you tell tmo to block the imei too while you were on with them? That's about all you can do, since its involving separate countries.the main prob with that is most countries have their own blacklists, so it may not do anything, but with a hint of luck the buyer gets it blocked and complains. You don't get it back but at least the seller loses out and gets a dodgy seller review.
Just gonna have to claim on your postal insurance, (please tell me you sent it "signed for",, if not,, well,, no comment)
TMobile cannot block it since it is not their phone anymore, I already asked, I have to file a Police Report.
I mailed it Priority with tracking, but it stops at when it leaves the USA, no tracking to Cyprus. Insurance was declined since USPS does not publicize well they don't have insurance for some countries, and guess what....Cyprus is one of them.
If the guy that bought the phone from by buyer/thief has actually my phone, I feel sorry for him too, he'll get a surprise very soon since the IMEI will be reported as stolen, and he'll get scammed.
Blimey, I think I'd go into the theft business too,, no proof of delivery?? Its a wonder anyone sends anything there at all!
All hail the British post office!
samsamuel said:
Blimey, I think I'd go into the theft business too,, no proof of delivery?? Its a wonder anyone sends anything there at all!
All hail the British post office!
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Yeah it sounds like the person that bought/stole the HD2 knew of the no tracking and knew they could get away with it. That sucks that a world wide company like USPS can not do anything else for you. I think you should press the matter with USPS myself.
T-Macgnolia said:
I think you should press the matter with USPS myself.
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definitely....
USPS cannot do anything since there is no tracking and no insurance, I already went this route.
My only alternative, now that I have an IMEI is to file a theft report with the police dept. here then I can open a case with FBI and IC3 which are federal agencies working on international frauds.
I won't see my money back, but at least the phone will be listed as stolen, IMEI on blacklist, and will never be able to be registered.
I just feel sorry for whoever bought the phone from my buyer/thief
I won't see my money back, but at least the phone will be listed as stolen, IMEI on blacklist, and will never be able to be registered.
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Shame those blacklists aren't global, if it goes outside of Europe/us it will probably work. Most stolen phones end up in Africa or the middle/far east where they couldn't care less.
As for the new buyer, did you email him to let him know to check the imei? (I already pointed him in the direction of this thread, fingers crossed it will black list and he'll complain about the seller.)
Next time be sure to inform the buyer that there is no insurance offered and no refunds. I've sold an hd2 to a similar place where insurance wasn't offered and made sure to tell him this.
It's not your fault if it gets lost in the mail. You sent it.
Also, if they didn't like it. You could have easily sold it to someone else.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA app
I found out the new Ebay ID for the guy is gericy
Beware of this person.
Apparently this guy does not know what the law is. Guess what, after I posted this thread on XDA he contacted me begging to remove, and claimed the fact that he "forgot" the claim, and he was "away" for a while.
He doesn't understand he broke the law and he should be punished. Try to rob a bank then when the cops find you return the money and say I'm sorry, you still go to jail. This is exactly what he did.
He refunded the money to me after making him reverse the neg feedback he left on Ebay, but then I found out he uses different IDs, probably to avoid consequences.
To all out there be careful if you buy anything from gericy
Cool, result!
samsamuel said:
Cool, result!
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Amen brother !! Don't underestimate the power of XDA !!!! It can catch thieves too.
Hah yea, shame it couldn't catch my burglar who took my xdaIIi and plasma telly. (tho it did get blocked so I assume it got thrown.)
AWESOME MAN!!!!
Glade you got your money back and keep pressing the issue. Dude should have to pay the consequences of his actions. Never under estimate the power of being persistence and the power of the internet.
Not sure you can do much other than what you already plan to do.
Also, I am not sure why would you risk sending your phone outside of US without the proof of delivery - $300 is $300 ... lot of money if you ask me...
Anyhow, best of luck and next time DO NOT SELL IT INTERNATIONALLY!
It says they wont let you return notebooks or computers, but they have the tablet under notebooks? I have one here that I would like to open and inspect to compare with my amazon tablet, which ever one has "less issues" I would like to keep... but I dont know if I should open the adorama transformer?? Any help...
Call Adorama. Tell them that it will be a gift. If my dad does not like it (1. opened; 2. unopened), can I return it?
If the policy is as you state, whether opened or not, you might NOT be able to return.
Same policy on TigerDirect.
Once you get it you cannot return it for a refund, unless you refused the original delivery. All RMA issues have to be dealt with ASUS directly.
Tsk tsk tsk. ALWAYS research return/refund policies when buying anything... especially electronics.
Regardless, just return the worst one to Amazon. They don't check for serial numbers or anything. I returned my Walmart TF to Newegg and vice-versa without any issues. The UPC code is the same.
akarol said:
Tsk tsk tsk. ALWAYS research return/refund policies when buying anything... especially electronics.
Regardless, just return the worst one to Amazon. They don't check for serial numbers or anything. I returned my Walmart TF to Newegg and vice-versa without any issues. The UPC code is the same.
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^^^ and this is the reason some sites don't take returns
lqaddict said:
Same policy on TigerDirect.
Once you get it you cannot return it for a refund, unless you refused the original delivery. All RMA issues have to be dealt with ASUS directly.
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I know everyone says this about TigerDirect and i think it even says so on the website. But when I called them and told them all my issues and asked to just to just get my money back. They gave me no issues. Instantly emailed me the return label, paid for by them, and a few days later I got my money refunded too. I think I might have just gotten very lucky and got a great rep though, becuase my other times calling about the same issues I got a bunch of bs and run around. So i think if you really try the reps can do anything they want for you. haha
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
ill call them tomorrow... if that's the case I will never buy from them again... and ill return the amazon one..
Thremix said:
It says they wont let you return notebooks or computers, but they have the tablet under notebooks? I have one here that I would like to open and inspect to compare with my amazon tablet, which ever one has "less issues" I would like to keep... but I dont know if I should open the adorama transformer?? Any help...
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Ok no offense, but you are exactly the reason WHY there are those kinds of return policies in the first place. I'm dead serious. Returns are expensive for retailers. They are bad enough when there are legit reasons for the return but when people do stuff like what you are attempting it's fraudulent in my opinion. Stores don't exist to work like libraries where you check out an item play with it see if it has issues and then return it when you are done playing.
If people would stop doing things like what you are attempting return procedures would likely be a bit more lax and restocking fee's wouldn't exist. Businesses are in business to make money, shocking i know. And returns are not profitable.
What you should be doing is taking any build quality issues up with the manufacturer NOT the retailer. They didn't make it and shouldn't be suffering a loss so you can play "which one will i keep". As a business owner myself i can spot people like yourself a mile away and i usually direct your business elsewhere, customers like that just aren't worth the trouble.
swampthing1117 said:
Ok no offense, but you are exactly the reason WHY there are those kinds of return policies in the first place. I'm dead serious. Returns are expensive for retailers. They are bad enough when there are legit reasons for the return but when people do stuff like what you are attempting it's fraudulent in my opinion. Stores don't exist to work like libraries where you check out an item play with it see if it has issues and then return it when you are done playing.
If people would stop doing things like what you are attempting return procedures would likely be a bit more lax and restocking fee's wouldn't exist. Businesses are in business to make money, shocking i know. And returns are not profitable.
What you should be doing is taking any build quality issues up with the manufacturer NOT the retailer. They didn't make it and shouldn't be suffering a loss so you can play "which one will i keep". As a business owner myself i can spot people like yourself a mile away and i usually direct your business elsewhere, customers like that just aren't worth the trouble.
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I disagree. Online retailers need to know that people are not able to "try" things out before purchasing like a B&M. For example, recently, I bought $300 worth of sunglasses to see which pair fit my face/style. I will mail back the ones that I did not select.
Why should it be different with electronics? No major B&M electronic retailer has restocking fees anymore except Sears. I'm sure that will end eventually. For me, I will not shop at a place that has a fee when it comes to small electronics (handheld devices, phones, etc.).
Don't worry, OP. No one is getting a free lunch from Amazon either.
Just saw this on AMAZON TF101 SPECS section:
Amazon.com Returns Policies: You may return any new computer purchased from Amazon.com that is "dead on arrival," arrives in damaged condition, or is still in unopened boxes, for a full refund within 30 days of purchase. Amazon.com reserves the right to test "dead on arrival" returns and impose a customer fee equal to 15 percent of the product sales price if the customer misrepresents the condition of the product. Any returned computer that is damaged through customer misuse, is missing parts, or is in unsellable condition due to customer tampering will result in the customer being charged a higher restocking fee based on the condition of the product. Amazon.com will not accept returns of any desktop or notebook computer more than 30 days after you receive the shipment. New, used, and refurbished products purchased from Marketplace vendors are subject to the returns policy of the individual vendor.
Of course, Amazon would be flexible about a defect (vs DOA), and be more flexible than to people who say, "I just did not like it. Wasn't what I expected."
I love my TF and I am keeping one.. I just put one on craiglist for $415 I think thats a fair price.. I am not "making" any money but that was never the point.. I just wanted to make sure I got a good one... they both are great with very little light leak, they both have the unbalanced sound but I see there is a fix for this already, so some one is gonna get lucky and get a transformer locally at cost, with no tax! lol
Not to be too legalistic but as far as I know no merchant through the use of any policy or provision can excuse themselves from the obligation of selling merchandise that is fit for its intended purpose.
If I sell you a toaster that does not toast, a knife that does not cut or a tablet that bleeds light out of the sides of the screen you have a pretty good case to demand full reimbursement.
Anyone can put up a sign "All Sales Are Final" or "Absolutely No Returns" or whatever they like but store policies never ever under any circumstances allow for a seller to commit fraud. If you tell the people that you gave the money to that the item does not work as promised through their onsite advertising (i.e. no mention of unequal sound or screenshots that do not show light bleed) you are entitled to cancel the sale since they took your money and did not give you the promised goods in exchange. You not obligated to let them try again, charge you a restocking fee, give you store credit or anything else.
Obviously I'm not a lawyer so you're mileage may vary. But I have found by plainly stating that the product in question is not fit for its intended purpose and as such I would like a refund yields a mostly desirous result. If the retailer held firm I would then call my credit card company and then worse case small claims.
The key is to keep saying unfit - unusable - not as advertised. Technical terms can cause subjective analysis while those three are pretty clear and can be elaborated on but not replaced (i.e. it's unfit because I bought it listen to music but one speaker is louder than the other, it is unusable because I bought it to view photos but the screen bleeds lights from the sides, etc.).
I'm sure they will help you regardless but no reason to bow down to some internet verbiage that outright dismisses their obligations under most state laws. As far as I am concerned a product received in unadvertised condition is DOA. Might as well be a brick if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do how it's supposed to do it.
Thremix said:
It says they wont let you return notebooks or computers, but they have the tablet under notebooks? I have one here that I would like to open and inspect to compare with my amazon tablet, which ever one has "less issues" I would like to keep... but I dont know if I should open the adorama transformer?? Any help...
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Best thing is to email me directly with your order number: [email protected]
BTW the returns policy as it relates to certain items is set by the manufacturers not by Adorama.
If an item in this category is found to be faulty or damaged on arrival it will be covered under the manufacturer warranty - but needs to be returned directly the manufacturer.
Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
Hey guys and gals, say hi to Helen. (Hi Helen, been a while since I've seen you around the internet.) She is one of the many reasons I like to use Adorama. How many companies have you seen that are this proactive? (I've heard Asus is active here too. That was an extra selling point for the TF for me.)
I usually deal with them for camera gear and they are very good about returns. Looks like their laptop policy is a wee bit different but I guess we now know why.
chimphappyhour said:
Hey guys and gals, say hi to Helen. (Hi Helen, been a while since I've seen you around the internet.) She is one of the many reasons I like to use Adorama. How many companies have you seen that are this proactive?
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Hi! That's good to hear!
Hello everyone.
The past few months I have spent so much time on fighting this case against Simply Electronics that I feel that I have obtained a PhD in their case.
I will try to help anyone who has been cheated by those scams, on how to recover their money back and believe me, it is possible. You only need a lot of patience and effort and time to spend on taking the actions I will outline.
The first, most important step is to avoid them. Don't get tricked by the feedback and reviews that you see because you fell into the same trap that I fell, which is believing that their biggest scam is delaying to send your order. Believe me, their biggest scam is not that they will delay a month to send your order. It's much more complicated. Here is what they usually do to cheat you:
1) Send the wrong model in order to make you return it
2) Send a defective item
3) Their stock is from Asia and they don't come with European warranty. Also, some electronic devices such as HTC phones may be loaded with Asian firmware which cannot be changed even after you unlock the bootloader. That was the case with HTC One X. You could flash a custom ROM but the underlying fw was still Asian.
Anyway, keeping in mind the above, their aim is to make you send the item back and then forget the refund. You get into a complicated procedure by which they usually manage to trick the intermediate services like Paypal, ending up with keeping your money and your purchased item. Don't give up though. Even after months you can keep fighting them and at the end you will win. They want you to get disappointed and abandon your efforts.
A few other details:
They are a Honk Kong based compay but they operate through a logistics office in London from where they dispatch the orders. Hence the delays. In this way all legal aspects get lost between the 2 companies and the European consumer services get confused and abandon. That was their idea I guess in managing their malicious actions.
Steps to get once you discover you were cheated:
As I said, the best way is to avoid them. and there are many reasons for this as I explained above. Even if you decide not to return them any items back, the facts I outloned above should still stop you from buying. If you have already sined, use the advices below:
1) Gather all your documents with the communication you had with them and convert them into pdf files. Also gather any proofing document like post office slips and do the same. Royal mail in the UK can email you the document of receipt showing their signature if you call them on telephone. Even that may not be evidence for Paypal but don't worry, it's more than enough for the police. After you have gathered all those details, get prepared to spend a lot of time on the computer in filing reports
2a) If the payment was made through moneybookers (you will see their name on the email you received from them when you purchased, you are lucky. Even after a few months you can report the case here: www.moneybookers.com and they will return your money
2b) If you have made your transaction with Paypal, open a dispute there. Don't let your hopes with them though as they may be affiliates. They are not better in any way and if you try to speak with them you will start hitting your head on the wall. Most propably you will fail here because they will trick those monkeys easily. I don't know but Paypal either employes 8 year onld kids or talking monkeys. Full stop. After you fail here, or if you have not used Paypal, go to next step.
3) After you fail, you will have 10 days to appeal their decission and provide further details but there is hardly any chance they will help you. Try though but if you fail on teh appeal as well don't spend any more time with them and don't try to communicate with them because you will get very frustrated from their answers. Now, try to find out if you paid from your Paypal balance (if you have money from selling items on eBay like me), or if the money was taken from your Bank credit card. If the money was from taken from the credit card, you are lucky. I was not because I was stupid enough to leave the money in PP instead of transferring them to credit card instead. So, if you were lucky, contact you bank and ask them for the procedure to start a chargeback. Most propably they will ask you to fill in a report and attach all the documents you gathered on step 1. I am sure that your case will end here and you will get your money back in 1-2 months through your bank. After that, Paypal will start running after you and begging you to return the money back otherwise they will close your account. Don't pay much atention, I did it 2ce and they haven't closed my account so far (I don't know what will happen with this case now though). If they do so, ignore them. Let them close your account but in the meantime withdraw all your money from your credit card and make sure there are no money there to take back. You don't need them, Trust me. Who needs them if they haven't managed to help you. You only need your bank. Now, if you have been stupid like me and you left all your money in Paypal and paid with that balance, much work is waiting for you:
4) Report to your country's local consumer center. If you are in the EU, then they can push some pressure on them through the EU protocols. Don't expect too much help here as they will get lost with the complexity of their structure. Remember, they are Hong Kong based with UK logisticks but it's the HK company that keeps the money so the legislation says that you have to report to HK instead of the EU. This step and the next, you can do them in parallel. In all cases, make sure to provide all the documents you gathered at step 1.
4a) Report to your local police authority and EU consumer service but again don't expect too much. At those 2 steps, make sure to accuse the UK logistics office who keep the return item and not the HK business for which they have no juristiction.
5) The last 2 will fail but the next 2 will save you. That could be after several months though. Continue sending emails to SE and keep them filed. They will be very careful with their replies because they know that you may be gathering info. Don't waste your time with theratenings like I did because they don't seem to count for them. They only respond to actions and not to cheap talk. Be very careful with your last 2 steps as they are the ones to save you:
5a) File your claim at the Hong Kong police: http://www.police.gov.hk/ppp_en/index.html
5b) File your claim at the Hong Kong consumer service: http://www.consumer.org.hk/website/ws_en/
Believe me, the HK police and consumer service will take this very seriously so try to be as descriptive as you can. I started receiving emails from them right afterwards and they were keeping me informed with the actions taken. All letters sent to SE were also forwarded to me. They also sent me letters in written at home. Do you want to compare the same report with UK? (right after filing my complaint at UK police and UK consumer council, I received an email telling me not to expect any repl or action from them because they are busy and that my case will just be filed for refference. Now I want to ask you. Who should be more busy, UK police or HK police? think)
A few weeks after this, SE changed their pattern of replies. Before, they were jerking me and telling me to go and ask my money from Paypal. After the police aproached them, they sent me a few apologetic emails and confirmation that they will refund me. I didn't believe them after what I have passed through with them but a couple of weeks later, a manual full refund was received. Ok, I lost some money which were taken as Paypal fees but that was better than nothing. I also managed to take some money from chargeback (the amount that was taken from my card instead of PP balance) and now PP is running after me for this. Now they remembered what is right and what is wrong and they ask me to return the chargeback money. Where were they when they had to play the role of judge and they partnered with teh crooks. I don't care now, let them give their fight and take thm back. I'm not going to make it easy for them. SE has not returned the money because they are honest but because they were forced to do so. I will do the same.
Ladies and gentlemen,
I just realised that it took me almost 1:30 hours to write this down but I hope it will help others. I have seen posts from hundreds of desperate people who don't know what to do and most of them abandon their efforts and lose their money.
Please, if you find any people who need help, point them here. Let's not allow those bastards to cheat any more inocent people.
Good job Sir
Sent from my I747 using xda premium
Your work here is highly appreciated
Should be made a sticky I think.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Well done and written.
Thanks for the helpful & detailed guide!