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so, i come from a Windows Mobile background (HTC Wizard first, Samsung Code after that). I've never owned an iPhone or played much with one.
we happened to be in the mall around the apple store and it was unbelievably packed (seriously). so we went in while we waited for our friends. and i started to play with an iPhone 4...and i'm not changing my phone...obviously. i pulled out the evo and I had my newly converted Avatar playing and got many looks from customers there....
anyways, point is while trying out the iphone I got to play guitar hero on it and it was great...so i got out of that store wanting to keep my phone and get a new game for it. when I go search on the market the only guitar hero on there has horrible reviews???
has anyone played a guitar hero / band hero type of game for the evo that works well? i dont want the iphone but just that game has had me thinking about it all day!
on another note...when do you guys think we'll start to have the amount of big companies developing for android like for the iphone? i would like to get some premium games!
I know what you mean about big companies developing for the Android Platform. With the fact that Android Devices are now over taking the Iphone.. I would say that it won't be long before we start seeing apps flying out from those same companies that have been dedicating there apps for just the Iphone. They can't ignore the market and the shares that Android phones have now taken. IMOP it's going to happen real soon that we start seeing them. I've noticed a lot more apps being developed across both platforms. Not to mention when you have phones with the speed like the EVO; they know more Iphone users are starting to jump over to the Android platform.
I have seen a few GH games for Android and they are pretty decent IMHO.
well i tried Guitar Hero World Tour and couldn't get past the login screen. after awkwardly putting in my username....what? no ok, next, arrow, nothing to move past that screen. nothing on the menu button...just nothing! and then it force closed...so uninstall and refund.
now i'm trying Guitar Hero 5...it's not perfect but at least it works. i have the idea that the one for iPhone was still better, but from what i'm seeing this is a 3rd party app whereas the iPhone one was official Guitar Hero (from their site).
i got another 23 hours to decide if i want to keep this $10 game
any other recommendations? i know there's a lot of apps that wont show up in the market, maybe you guys know of some killer game like this that's out there?
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
Really, its stupid HTC's fault. They REALLY need to stop releasing a ****ing phone every 2 weeks and focus on keeping the quality of their phones top notch. The Hero was promised so many updates but still lacks all of them.
So yeah developers really giving a **** about Android? Unlikely. If you want games get an iPod/iPhone.
werxen said:
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
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Sorry, but that's the the dumbest argument I have seen all day. So why is Windows SO successful with app developers? With literally thousands of models of laptops and COUNTLESS configurations of desktops with different screen sizes, resolution, graphics cards, ram, the list goes on.
In fact, Android does it even BETTER than windows. Phone Hardware is tightly tied to Android APIs which means your LED flashlight app should work on all phones with LEDs, and so on.
Resolution is also not an issue with Android, as apps are written like webpages: resolution-independent, unlike iOS. . Example: Most android market apps run great on the newly announced Galaxy Tab whereas Apple had to throw a frickin' iPhone emulator on the iPad.
It ultimately comes down to adoption. Android is a monster now, and developers ARE taking notice. In fact, ALL of my iPhone app favorites are on android, or currently in development.
Also, releasing different phones is NOT stupid marketing. Turns out there are SIX BILLION people in the world, and different people have different needs. One size does NOT fit all. And guess what? Android is projected to become the #1 mobile platform very, very soon.
It's Mac vs. Windows all over again. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's going to win.
Off-topic. A few days ago we were at the galleria shopping for a present, and we passed the Apple store like 8 times. Every single time we passed it I would take out my Evo and point it at the store and we would start yelling IPHONE SUCKS ANDROID EVO 4G. And then walk off casually as if nothing had happened. Was awesome.
Zori said:
Off-topic. A few days ago we were at the galleria shopping for a present, and we passed the Apple store like 8 times. Every single time we passed it I would take out my Evo and point it at the store and we would start yelling IPHONE SUCKS ANDROID EVO 4G. And then walk off casually as if nothing had happened. Was awesome.
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This made me LOL.
In any case, to think that developers are going to ignore Android because there are to many handsets is ridiculous. Developers are going to go where the money is, period. Even with the extra headache, having a potential market that is 20x larger is a pretty significant reason to put up with the fragmentation issues (that I don't believe are nearly as bad as the Henny Pennys make it out to be).
bnrbranding said:
This made me LOL.
In any case, to think that developers are going to ignore Android because there are to many handsets is ridiculous. Developers are going to go where the money is, period. Even with the extra headache, having a potential market that is 20x larger is a pretty significant reason to put up with the fragmentation issues (that I don't believe are nearly as bad as the Henny Pennys make it out to be).
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I agree that goes on the books as one of the dumbest arguments i have read. i mean it would never be possible to make an app that let you choose your resolution or make it default to the resolution of the device it is being used on such as with almost every full screen computer game/program :O thats impossible. oh wait no it isnt.
The android platform will pass up iOS (if it hasnt already thought i read it already did but will give benefit of the doubt to apple). The fact that they bring out so many phones is exactly WHY it is going to. you have 1 phone (ok 2 if you count last gen) for sale normally with iOS. you have how many android devices? A LOT. the longer it is out and the more people actually get to use it the fewer iphone drones there will be and the more android will flourish and with that comes more development.
Many developers have already started (though some of them seem not to have done there homework) EA for example has already started...though they said they wished android had an app delivery system such as the istore .... (they apparently haven't heard of the app market in android)..but they are starting to develop.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry, but that's the the dumbest argument I have seen all day. So why is Windows SO successful with app developers? With literally thousands of models of laptops and COUNTLESS configurations of desktops with different screen sizes, resolution, graphics cards, ram, the list goes on.
In fact, Android does it even BETTER than windows. Phone Hardware is tightly tied to Android APIs which means your LED flashlight app should work on all phones with LEDs, and so on.
Resolution is also not an issue with Android, as apps are written like webpages: resolution-independent, unlike iOS. . Example: Most android market apps run great on the newly announced Galaxy Tab whereas Apple had to throw a frickin' iPhone emulator on the iPad.
It ultimately comes down to adoption. Android is a monster now, and developers ARE taking notice. In fact, ALL of my iPhone app favorites are on android, or currently in development.
Also, releasing different phones is NOT stupid marketing. Turns out there are SIX BILLION people in the world, and different people have different needs. One size does NOT fit all. And guess what? Android is projected to become the #1 mobile platform very, very soon.
It's Mac vs. Windows all over again. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's going to win.
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It's a decent argument. They aren't selling these games for $50 like they would on Windows. When you are selling a game for $2-5, margins are slim. Look at the high end games right now, they usually have to make several versions of the game to work for PowerVR GPUs, Adreno, etc.
As for resolution independence, not completely. Android uses raster images for a lot of UI elements. If you look in a APK, you'll see a resource folder that holds image data for various resolutions, usually just two (320x480 and ~800x480). There is no folder for higher resolution tablets so either they'll a) be blurry from scaling up or b) have a lot of empty space in the app. Option A would be the same as how the iOS does it for the iPad. Anyway, this a non issue to me (and hopefully everyone else too). Why use a tablet for phone size apps? I want tablet apps, I already have a damn 4.3" Android phone.
One last point about resolution problems, since Apps have to include weighty graphic files for all resolutions it also has to carry the added file size. So the more resolutions it has to support, the bigger the file. Because Apple was in control of the hardware they were able to do something that works: just double the resolution (320x480 to 640x960). Apps made for both resolutions look the same regardless of which resolution it was originally made for since they can scale 1:1.
Here is why developers don't like the Android Marketplace:
1) Fragmentation, yes it's real. No matter how much you argue, developing for Android requires more work than iOS. That is a fact.
2) Payment method. It sucks on Android and doesn't on iOS. A lower ratio of user buy paid apps on Android and that's a fact.
3) Not as many countries even support paid apps at all. This hurts it a lot.
4) User base is still much larger on iOS.
award no one said their wouldnt be more difficulities in dealing with the diffrent resolutions. What we said is that no smart developing firm is going to ignore the android platform because of it which is what the arguement said they would do.
does dealing with multiple resolutions increase cost for the developer and present more difficulties then developing for just 1 phone. Sure. are developers going to turn there nose at the android platform which is currently close to if not bigger then the iOS platform as far as usage and growing quickly? I cant see the future but i would wager no they arent.
so the arguement that big developers will never touch the android platform because of resolution issues IS a stupid arguement. if he would have said the developers are slow to get involved because of how fractured the phones are for the android platform i would tend to agree it was a decent arguement, but thats not what the arguement was.
omegasun18 said:
award no one said their wouldnt be more difficulities in dealing with the diffrent resolutions. What we said is that no smart developing firm is going to ignore the android platform because of it which is what the arguement said they would do.
does dealing with multiple resolutions increase cost for the developer and present more difficulties then developing for just 1 phone. Sure. are developers going to turn there nose at the android platform which is currently close to if not bigger then the iOS platform as far as usage and growing quickly? I cant see the future but i would wager no they arent.
so the arguement that big developers will never touch the android platform because of resolution issues IS a stupid arguement. if he would have said the developers are slow to get involved because of how fractured the phones are for the android platform i would tend to agree it was a decent arguement, but thats not what the arguement was.
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By itself I agree. But Android's Marketplace problems (which I noted) add up. I work as a developer/designer (not mobile apps though) and time is money. The money just isn't there to justify building both iOS and Android apps.
Award Tour said:
By itself I agree. But Android's Marketplace problems (which I noted) add up. I work as a developer/designer (not mobile apps though) and time is money. The money just isn't there to justify building both iOS and Android apps.
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Exactly. My boss used to work for 3
Ea games and he said there is an entire section of the Ea building that is sealed off like the pentagon. This section is the iPhone developers area. With ios booming so much its not economically feasible to develop for Android. Besides that the android line has far too many hardware differences. There is a lot of bad information in this thread. Believe me when I say everything I have said to be the truth. If android wants games like iPhone it needs to start producing similar hardware which is not going to happen.
werxen said:
Exactly. My boss used to work for 3
Ea games and he said there is an entire section of the Ea building that is sealed off like the pentagon. This section is the iPhone developers area. With ios booming so much its not economically feasible to develop for Android. Besides that the android line has far too many hardware differences. There is a lot of bad information in this thread. Believe me when I say everything I have said to be the truth. If android wants games like iPhone it needs to start producing similar hardware which is not going to happen.
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I agree with the other poster, if the buyers are there, developers will invest into the platform. Android Hardware fragmentation will never be solved and will always be a pain to developers. That said, it'll be a pain they'll tolerate but not until they fix the broken Marketplace that is preventing/pushing people from buying apps.
I feel in time, android phones will be more alike, after they find one good setup... But also more people are coming to the adroid phone which will drive the demand for devs, so I feel they will start producing in the near future.
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!
werxen said:
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
Really, its stupid HTC's fault. They REALLY need to stop releasing a ****ing phone every 2 weeks and focus on keeping the quality of their phones top notch. The Hero was promised so many updates but still lacks all of them.
So yeah developers really giving a **** about Android? Unlikely. If you want games get an iPod/iPhone.
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I have several friends who design apps as a living for the iphone. I've asked them why they don't do Android apps, and they basically said this exact same thing. With low profit margins and the need to constantly release new apps, it's easier for them to just focus on the iphone because it only has 1 phone, they don't need to change anything for each different phone. Even if android ends up being 60% of the market, that 60% is split over 10 touchscreen phones, while apple has the remaining 40% with just the one phone
dag16 said:
I have several friends who design apps as a living for the iphone. I've asked them why they don't do Android apps, and they basically said this exact same thing. With low profit margins and the need to constantly release new apps, it's easier for them to just focus on the iphone because it only has 1 phone, they don't need to change anything for each different phone. Even if android ends up being 60% of the market, that 60% is split over 10 touchscreen phones, while apple has the remaining 40% with just the one phone
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Yeah I don't know why some people in here are doubting my argument like I am making frivolous claims. This is my job - to work in programming and simulations. My boss used to work for EA. He still helps dev teams out with the iPhone. Lots of people on these forums just talk talk talk talk like they know what they are talking about. Sad.
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
That's idiotic. Game development by big players is happening right now. Remember that Android didn't have powerful hardware in a mass market seller until the Droid, which was released only a year ago. Now that the hardware base is full of Evo, Droid X/2 and Galaxy S phones, there's a huge opportunity. Not to mention that Android will likely be the #2 smartphone OS in another year, and probably dominant in the US.
Couple that with the fact that Android is easier to develop for than iOS, and a company would have to have some retarded management to disregard Android.
The person who said they wont get involved because of hardware differences is absolutely correct and its been said its the reason why android has been somewhat held back. When the iphone4 and evo first came out u read that's in an article. The development tools are harder to use also probably due toso many different hardware specs. But it also said that developers think android is the future and will be better than iOS. Eventually we'll see better games but its really does make sense about thee difficulties of turing to develop something on devices with completely different hardware specs. And its not the same as computers because most computers can be upgrades on the hardware front or they come barely good enough to work with a particular software.
Relative Smartphone O/S Market Shares
I can't speak to the relative speed of game development on the respective phone platforms, but I can say that Android's market share gains are pretty formidable. According to the latest reports, Android is closing in on RIM and Apple for smartphone operating system market share in the U.S..
On a worldwide basis, Android appears to be in third place behind Symbian (by a large margin) and closely on the heels of RIM.
I wanted to provide a link to the source of that information, but was not allowed to do so. Thus, I'll simply say that you can find an article called "An Analysis and Valuation of The Success Story Formally Known as Android" on the Zero Hedge website.
I'd be shocked if the top mobile gaming titles weren't available on Android in the foreseeable future.
Reports are coming in that Apple has been granted a preliminary injunction for the entire European Union (excluding Netherlands) that will halt distribution of Samsung’s Galaxy Tab 10.1. This comes on the heels of a postponed launch of the device in Australia due to a lawsuit with Apple.
The decision by the Regional Court of Dusseldorf in Germany to block sales of the device comes after a judge sided with Apple on claims that Galaxy Tab infringed on patents related to the iPad 2. While Samsung can appeal the court’s decision sometime in the next month, the Telegraph’s Shane Richmond is quick to point out it would be heard by the same judge. Apple is also said to have a separate lawsuit filed in the Netherlands as well.
Samsung had this to say in a recent statement about their legal disputes with Apple:
“Samsung believes that there is no legal basis for this assertion. We will continue to serve our customers and distributors and the sale of Samsung products will be continued.”
And Apple has made their stance on the situation clear…
“It’s no coincidence that Samsung’s latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging. This kind of blatant copying is wrong, and we need to protect Apple’s intellectual property when companies steal our ideas.”
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Source 9 to 5 mac
I admit i'm a transformer guy and an iPhone user but this really sucks ... come on apple how different can a tablet really be...
Here is a great article.... http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injunction-granted-by.html
I fell bad for the android fans in Europe, I have to say that the galaxy tab 10 is the best android tablet out there. I have owned and used them all.
Yah, I have a GT 10.1 and and iPhone 4, and there's really not much different about any of the tablets. There all a flat sheet of glass....
Guess they'll have to make due with this instead:
http://www.samsung.com/us/simulators/galaxytab101emulator/
burhanistan said:
Guess they'll have to make due with this instead:
http://www.samsung.com/us/simulators/galaxytab101emulator/
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That isn't such a bad thing, since the emulator runs faster than the real thing
Wow this is crazy....i don't know how the galaxy tab 10.1 is similar to ipad2?
Atleast with the phone there is some argument with touchwiz looking similar to iphone with home button. But with the tab 10.1? Seriously Apple cmon let consumers have choice to buy what they want. Eventually the better product will win, not by blocking compitetor product sales.
Maybe Apple is worried about a better product...
No difference at all
Only a different screen size, aspect ratio, OS, camera orientation, speaker design, double the RAM...
My country makes me sad!
Looks a lot like apple products... how many ways can you design a flat device be it a phone or a tab? then they say the user interface looks a lot like apple iOS when it couldnt be more different! in fact its 100 times better and thats what has got apple messing themselves.
not a peep out of apple for yrs until android, samsung and htc have come along and started to kick their ass
They should have skipped Touchwizz, it makes the tablet look like an Ipad.
Oh, all ports are an EXACT copy of Apple products.
No SD-Card, same plug + adapters, same price etc. makes it look and feel Ipad like, not Android like !
The really wanted to beat Apple and took over to much.
I guess the 10.1 is dead now. Propably they will hurry to release a Tegra3 Tab.
I am really pissed...
http://winfuture.de/news,64823.html
I ordered my GT10.1 yesterday from Germany and it shipped today (at least i hope it did).
Of all Sammy products, the GT10.1 seems the least like an apple product, in specs, hardware and software, especially compared to earlier phones.
Yet Apple is after the GT10.1 probably cause they know they've lost dominance in the cell phone market to android phones, and very much fear the same will happen in the tablet market,especially since GT10.1 is the most credible (if not better at least hardware wise) competition.
Apples is a smart innovative company, but I felt from my iPod touch days that I couldn't live with their suffocating and closed (my-way-or-no-way) approach to using their products.
Now, it seems like apple is taking their domineering ways one notch further and just trying to suffocate any competition.
I hope Apple keeps making good products but I hope they don't succeed in killing alternatives. Just leave the choice to us customers.
Well, this is unique. The EU has been quick to block, ban, stop or otherwise harrass American companies just because they're American companies. Even when there's no legal reason or precidence to do so.
Part of me wishes Apple well just for that reason. Alas, the logical part of me wishes justice be served.
Isn't it ironic that a decade ago that Microsoft was the evil empire and Apple was the underdog. Now Apple has become the evil empire and scarier than Microsoft ever was.
One thing is for sure, if Apple stops me of using a product I like, then Apple is more than a just a bad product ... This is such bad advertisement ...
I say, Samsung use this! Great opportunity.
dcc22 said:
They should have skipped Touchwizz, it makes the tablet look like an Ipad.
Oh, all ports are an EXACT copy of Apple products.
No SD-Card, same plug + adapters, same price etc. makes it look and feel Ipad like, not Android like !
The really wanted to beat Apple and took over to much.
I guess the 10.1 is dead now. Propably they will hurry to release a Tegra3 Tab.
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May be you should troll somewhere else. Also, when you haven't compared 2 side by side, then don't even post anything in regards to Gtab.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
its reasons like this i sold my ipad, and iphone;
bought a HTC Desire HD, and a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1
will never buy another apple product again.
Apple is suing HTC, too. And at this point, theyre winning. I mean, how different can a tablet be??!!! What, apple wants everyone else to make round products that only have a black 'speak-only' screen????
Wtf apple!!??? God, i HATE apple!
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Time to hit the drawing boards. The gtab is dead. Well this should allow Samsung to come out with something more defined and truly a work of art.
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Well, things are not looking very good for Samsung right at the moment. A judge in Germany has declared that until this whole IP lawsuit by Apple is settled, Samsung cannot sell their new Galaxy Tab 10.1 anywhere in the EU except for the Netherlands. A similar ruling in Australia previously blocked sales down under as well.
Many pundits are saying they expect this to be the first falling rocks of a judicial landslide in Apple's favor that will savage Samsung's reputation as a rising player in the mobile space and force them to either withdraw most of the Galaxy line of products from sale or pay a massive sum to Apple...or possibly both.
This decision and the mindset behind it pisses me off. Remember that a lie unchallenged becomes the truth, and may then be used to support further lies. The lies that have become truth amongst the digital intelligentsia due to being unchallenged (or at least by having the challenges shouted down too often) are that "Apple invented the GUI" (not true, that was Xerox), that "Apple invented the Smartphone" (not true, that was probably Palm with the Treo or Nokia) and that "Apple invented using Apps" (not true, I had some great Apps on my PocketPC and my Treo both, only they were still called Programs). You can read those same fables almost every day, with the word "invented" being used in place of the more honest terms "popularized" or "helped develop", on almost all tech blogs and newspapers on the net.
Those fables are now being used to support the far broader fable that "Apple invented mobile computing" which to a degree was upheld by this German judge when he supported Apple's claim that any flat rectangle with a large touch screen is essential stolen from Cupertino. This sort of thinking, for all kinds of reasons, is just plain wrong.
So at first I fumed...but then I thought it all through again, and saw that the worst case scenario may not be so bad after all, and that to a degree Samsung brought it on themselves. Are Galaxy products similar to Apple iOS devices? Sure, especially the TouchWiz GUI. Faced with a market that clearly loved the way the iPhone looked and operated, Samsung opted to give them a slightly tweaked version of what they loved rather then try to convince them to try something new. It is tough to blame them...look at Microsoft. All critics agreed that Windows Phone 7 was fresh and innovative and a good start that would improve rapidly...and consumers STILL stayed away in droves. MS is staying the course and betting that eventually WP7 will catch on, but that takes a company willing to burn an enormous amount of money and patience...which most companies just can't do the way that Redmond can.
Therefore Samsung pandered to the public's current tastes and may now pay the price for that....but we as users may see something good come out of this.
Am I the only one that is bored to tears by the iOS interface? Can't we move beyond the minimalist Apple design concept that seems to inspire almost every phone and tablet available today? Perhaps if the courts side with Apple in this lawsuit, it will force Samsung and other tech companies to innovate again, to take risks on new form factors and different ways to present content and features, to go beyond the big rectangle with the large touchscreen and the app icons. If products are not allowed to look like an iPhone anymore, what WILL new products look like? I have no idea...and I like that.
People have spent a lot of time looking for an iPhone/iPad killer...but for a product to truly compete with those heavyweights it has to first of all be DIFFERENT from them. Experience has shown that if you try to beat Steve Jobs at his own game, you will lose and just be another snide jab in his next keynote. For a product to succeed it first has to stand out in both form and function. Win or lose, hopefully this lawsuit will make that clear to Samsung....or somebody.
EDIT: Here is an interesting note...Samsung is not alone in being a target for Apple's ire. They are also suing Motorola in Europe over the design of the Xoom. COuld a similar injunction be seen soon that will end Xoom sales in Europe? Read the details at http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/apple-is-also-suing-motorola-in-europe.html
I will hope apple lose in their anti competitive behavior. If apple win this battle, there will be more ridiculous court case eg, Toshiba will sue apple for the 'look and feel' like a computer, IBM will sue cos having the word 'OS' , Ford will sue every car with four wheels, MS will sue any system for having a boot up screen... I want my galaxy tab 8.9 now!!!!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
don't wanna be a smartshitter but Ford didn't invent the car my friend^^
That was Mr Daimler from Germany who build the "first" car and Mr Benz who build the first "modern" car years before Ford...and who knows what these nasty germans will do^^
greetz
MasterJam882 said:
don't wanna be a smartshitter but Ford didn't invent the car my friend^^
That was Mr Benz from Germany...and who knows what these nasty germans will do^^
greetz
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True, but Ford spent a lot of time and newsprint saying that Ford invented the "mass produced" car, eventually dropping the mass produced part. Now if you ask people what the first car was, a sizable majority (especially in the US) will say the Model T Ford. Just like most people now would say that Apple invented the Tablet.
rschenck did you have a look at the actual community design in question? for me it looks like if this lawsuite is a win for apple, nobody else will be allowed to actually built tablets anymore... so i guess this will just hold back the tab 10.1 for a while on european market, but not stop samsung at all...
edit: and this has solely to do with the case design, nothing about the interface there...
rschenck, an excellent post about a very important subject. I agree that this could be a reason for Samsung and others to boost innovation and creativity.
In general, it seems just madness to me that a company like Apple is able to prevent others using similar form factor. I suppose the German judge is not to blame, he's just doing his job (well I didn't really check if he had a choice. I guess it's the ones that make the legislation who would need to be educated.
Edit:
Btw how likely is it that a person buying a phone accidentally gets a Samsung because he/she thinks it's an iPhone? Come on, tell me people aren't that stupid. Oh well, I guess there must be fair amount of those who can't read, shopping for smartphones. But still, there's the picture of an apple...
I wonder if Apple has thought of suing apple farmers for growing products that resemble their logo. Just think about it: the poor customer thinks he's getting an iPhone and when he gets home he finds out he bought a fruit.
FadeFx said:
rschenck did you have a look at the actual community design in question? for me it looks like if this lawsuite is a win for apple, nobody else will be allowed to actually built tablets anymore... so i guess this will just hold back the tab 10.1 for a while on european market, but not stop samsung at all...
edit: and this has solely to do with the case design, nothing about the interface there...
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I am not sure of your point in the first paragraph, but based on what I think you are saying I agree that if Apple wins all it is asking for, that other companies will need to look to radical new designs and Google may need to relax their hardware restrictions to a great degree to allow companies to compete.
The German decision just hinges on the form factor of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, but the GUI and TouchWiz interface play a big part in the overall legal argument.
Here is a good breakdown of the lawsuit and what Apple is claiming...http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/
Still a bit silly on apple, they think they own the form factor of a tablet. Just like Sony decided they own the invention of the TV screen. The 10.1 is nothing like the ipad, for a start it's 16:4 ratio whether other is 4:3, how on earth one can be mistaken a square for a rectangle. I hope the Beatles start suing apple for the name
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okpc said:
I hope the Beatles start suing apple for the name
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Been there done that....Jobs won.
Ok, I hope LG will sued apple for using 'touch' as an interface.
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See my edit above...Motorola joins the fray as well.
Last year I wanted to buy a new smartphone, and as an Apple fanboy I only thought about buying an iPhone. Unfortunately in my country when the iPhone 4 was launched it costed around €650 which was too expensive for my wallet. Then I met the Galaxy S, which was basically kind of an iPhone rip-off but was €250 cheaper. I bought the Galaxy S and today it's still my phone.
So yes, in the end, if the i9000 didn't exist I guess I would have probably ended up buying the iPhone, and Apple could easily argue that they lost at least one customer because the TouchWiz UI and overall design looks pretty much like the iPhone.
I know there's more people in the world like me, I know how many times non tech savvy people asked me if I had bought an iPhone when they saw my Samsung phone for the first time... so in the end we must admit that Apple has a point
The iPhone has a very strong product image among the consumer and Samsung capitalized on that!
Look at it like this, apple sucks! The mac is a pc! Windows stomped apple for years and still does. Jobs never could get it right. Microsoft wins because they have one, not many ideas. The pc was made to be universal, the outside can be anything you or I want it to be. Ios and android are nothing alike. All apple is concerns about is the fact people are tired of being told what they can do with the crapple they bought! That's why I switched. When jobs dies, see what happens! Apple will rape the ios trying to get back to the top! Can I use words instead of icons to open an app or display the weather, not on crapple! Can a maxi pad hook to a server to fix an issue, nope! It's an over sized ipod! Now samsung screwed themselves with the 10.1! Look at it, one cable that looks just like apples, one port, the damn cheap plastic, it wreaks of copy cat! Apple couldn't patent the use of "market" cause then the flea market and grocery market would eat their lunch! Apple is losing the war and they know it! All they are doing is slowing their eventual death! I say we invent a toy and call it the iplug! Of course as soon as apple hears it, they will sue. An apple with the letter I on top! Only problem apple is unaware that it's an adult toy! How pathetic would they look?
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@rschenk
Nice to take a break from flashing and bricking and then puffing and panting.........
Firstly,their TAB went on sale in India and Australia today I believe.
I reckon the biggest market for Samsung is all-Asia inclusive of big brother China where Apple will not be able to stop anything!In fact,Chinese stores started selling 'Hi-phone 5' today,for virtually a song.
Yes,where these firms make a mistake is the 'Me-too' attitude like you mentioned in the case of the GUI viz TOUCHWIZ in the case of Samsung and of course the form factor.
All said and done,it's 'dog eat dog' out there with android itself being under very severe attack from Apple/Microsoft.The biggest gainer eventually would be the customers with some real differentiating possibilities beyond the mere price of these expensive gadgets!
ps---really enjoyed your post!
i want to sue steve jobs because he looks like someone i know
Great thread ! i totally agree with you on this, I do like the Samsung android devices, BUT they do look a lot like the iphone, just like the MIUI rom (which im using lol)
It would be great if Samsung made massive changes to their devices, and something 10 x better than iOS which to be honest.... is nice..
Who knows whats going to happen, maybe its just bullying on a mass scale, Maybe its for the best... But no matter what happens, I will never own an iphone, I will go back to a nokia 6210 if i have too.
I dont rape iphone users, I havent got the balls (pun intended!) But for me, i hate apple, i hate the restrictions, the forcing of using itunes only. and all the other **** they make you do.
I want a phone that i can suit to my needs, and do what i want to it. And thats why i am an android user. Its not Samsung that i like.... its android, so as long as android continues... i couldnt give a **** !!
To be honest,
I love the quality of Samsung products, and this made me kinda fan-boy of them. Because their quality is superb. If there was a better company I would switch but there is not. (Depending on the device of course, canon makes better reflex camera, no doubt, just as example).
You can look at this as a step to the future because companies now might improve their product designs, but we are talking about tablets. What do you think tablets look like? I don't see tablets in a pyramid case... honestly, for me it is just a huge "what the f*ck".
Thumbs down for Apple and the Judge who is a complete retard.
Regards
There's why our xoom has the funny crap way of being used. Microsoft did it! Let's all mass email Microsoft and tell 'em we are switching to Mac and ios! See what happens to apple. I am sick of buying devices and being told I can't do what I want with it! Next they will stop selling printing paper cuz it's white and rectangled! Then there's the saying the alphabet....abcdefghjklmnopqrstuvxyz! Apple didn't invent crap! They stole most of everything they make! I say we start a petition to stop apple's lawsuits. Or we can file a class action against apple for being idiots! And another thing! Why do Mac's work with windows? Oh yeah apple's CPU sucked!!!!!
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Well, it's a company's job to make money to its shareholders. Can we really blame Apple alone for using methods like this? After all it seems that (legally) Apple has a case here so it's worth trying. Imo the question is should there be patent and IP laws that allow patenting a rectangular shape
Intelligent thinking. Very well written too. You deserve a pat on shoulder.
www.mashable.com/2012/01/27/ipad-two-years-later/
Android is the leading platform on mobile. But on the tablet, the number of optimized apps are still extremely low. I’d be surprised if there were as many tablet-specific apps for Android now as there were for the iPad at its launch....
Over the last two years, plenty of so-called “iPad Killers” have entered the market. Very few found success.
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Now they're lying right thru their teeth. No shame at all.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I agree with him. Many of the apps I use are just zoomed in 2.3 apps. We need more Honeycomb/tablet optimized apps.
tynan said:
Hate to burst your bubble, but I agree with him. Many of the apps I use are just zoomed in 2.3 apps. We need more Honeycomb/tablet optimized apps.
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Hate to burst YOUR bubble but, most iPad apps were just zoomed in iPhone apps for quite awhile. It takes awhile for developers to embrace a new platform. Im hoping that the merging of phone and tablet OS's with ICS fix most of the developer qualms with android. I personally see android tablets becoming more popular than the iPad in just a couple years. Just MHO
tynan said:
Hate to burst your bubble, but I agree with him. Many of the apps I use are just zoomed in 2.3 apps. We need more Honeycomb/tablet optimized apps.
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Look at the sentence that I quoted again. Are you telling me that by now the number of tablet optimized apps in android market is not as many as the number of tablet optimized apps in apple appstore when they first launched the ipad 2 years ago? Again, read that sentence again.
And by the way, no tablet company has ever proclaimed their product was "an ipad killer". This was a term coined by ifanboys.
This is a good site..
https://www.mylookout.com/appgenome/
Some highlights..many more apps for sale on apple store, many more free apps on android
Android has exploded % wise, increasing number of apps by more % than apple, while app still has over twice as many apps in their market
Apple has 6 times as many developers contributing to their market because the profit factor on apple is much higher than android
Open source! FTW!
Android also isn't employing slave labor in china..well, at least not 700,000 slaves..that im aware of..just more reasons to love android.
The real issue between the two is not an issue of quality, fragmentation or applications. The real issue between the two tablets is price. Even if someone can afford an Ipad doesn't mean they will buy it. Seriously, who wants to throwdown seven hundred bones for a tablet with no expandable memory and limited customization? The applications will rectify themselves in time, they always do. Apple is like Mercedes. They make great computers,but like Mercedes people do not buy their cars to alter or customize them. That is the difference- nobody wants to hot rod a Mercedes!
I am continuously puzzled by why apple decided to put 2 crappy cameras on their star ipad2 product and no expandable memory.
goodintentions said:
I am continuously puzzled by why apple decided to put 2 crappy cameras on their star ipad2 product and no expandable memory.
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The real question is why something that lacks those things is $700.....
Please, make me pay more money for a product that has fewer customizable options and lower quality hardware than it's android opposition! -every iphan..
This is just anti-apple circle jerking. I dont think this is a "discussion" of any sorts.
Honestly, as a Transformer owner, I ENVY the lack of tablet apps on Android. It may eventually be solved, but until then
Seeing facebook and twitter run blown up phone apps which arent easy to navigate on a tablet just plain SUCKS.
Yes the iPad may not be very customizable, no expansions and stuff but the apps there are really really high quality. Also an endless amount of selection of games.
It's sad that Android doesnt even have flipboard yet
goodintentions said:
Look at the sentence that I quoted again. Are you telling me that by now the number of tablet optimized apps in android market is not as many as the number of tablet optimized apps in apple appstore when they first launched the ipad 2 years ago? Again, read that sentence again.
And by the way, no tablet company has ever proclaimed their product was "an ipad killer". This was a term coined by ifanboys.
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I remain on the fences in regards to the article. Android Market has roughly 62 tablet optimized apps, and App Brain seems to be closing in on 100 apps for tablets.
But if you are one to believe whatever you read, then I guess there is no way to sway your opinion. If you are one to do your own research and make up your own mind, then I think (in my opinion) you will be better off.
As android tablets take more and more of the market and replace even netbook pcs in the next few years there will be more tablet apps on the android market than there was on the apple market with similar age/market share. It seems that way anyway if the trends continue, especially as the android is seen as a developer's device, and ios devices are consumer level, there will always be more money in the apple store because they are geared to deep pocketed consumers to begin with, which in itself draw developers to want to put apps on the apple market. However you look at it though the two devices are not quite equals..more like similar devices.
Apples and oranges imo, in that they are both fruits and similarity really ends there.
-yawn- another nonsense article written by a clueless techie. It has all of the hallmarks. Totally ignore all of the Android devices that directly compete against the iPad and win? Check. Glorify the iPad as if it's the first tablet to have ever been created? Check. Shortsell the Android platform based on Honeycomb? Check. Compare the iPad to the Kindle Fire based on "an ecosystem"? Check.
If she thought Honeycomb was where Android should have caught up to iPad in terms of tablet compatible apps, she's naive. I should know, I've been to a Google sponsored event and I've seen just how hard these guys are trying with ICS (NOT HONEYCOMB) to stress best design practices and make all apps compatible between phones and tablets by stressing the use of classes like fragment and actionbar. Mark my words: ICS is where the phone/tablet apps will spring out and provided the app designers follow Google's tips and use the classes at their disposable, the apps will not only have stellar UI's that look good on tablets, they'll look good on phones too. Look at the G-Mail app on ICS and you'll know what I'm talking about.
Once this kind of development catches on it will steamroll apps on iOS and the chasm between phone and tablet apps will become much smaller. The hurdle is getting developers to learn these practices and adopt them on a wider scale and with Google directly helping developers by putting up training websites, I don't see this being a problem for long.
atlharp said:
The real question is why something that lacks those things is $700.....
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goodintentions said:
I am continuously puzzled by why apple decided to put 2 crappy cameras on their star ipad2 product and no expandable memory.
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So that they can upgrade the cameras on iPad3, and then add in an expandable memory in iPad3s (or iPad4). People lap up what Apple does and so Apple can get away with that ****. Their advertisement campaign is frakking admirable to be honest.
I think Android would kill Apple if they allowed the OnSkreen thing onto the OS. At the moment, Google is still waiting to see if people pick up on the fact that tablets are more than for consumption which is why they aren't picking up the OnSkreen thing since it seems like dumping money into waters that haven't shown their potential yet. It's stupid though, of course, since they could possibly be killing the competition by introducing it first..
(Maybe the projection thing will kill tablets before they become a thing and we'll have just have devices that can turn anything into a "touch screen" instead of tablets.)
According to http://mashable.com/2012/05/24/apple-stylus/this article Apple applied for a stylus patent. Is this a sign of next iphone will include a stylus or what? How cool is that?
Article tells apple's stylus will be different then others as follows. Apple’s idea of the stylus, however, is slightly different from the simple styluses you usually get with tablets today. It’s an optical device that can determine (via a pressure sensor) when it’s in contact with a surface and can capture an image using a built-in camera.
Does it sound familiar to you? I think it's Sammy's turn now to sue Apple for copying GNote's Spen
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You can't patent the stylus.
You can however patent your own specific implementation/take on it. Read the actual patent filing, Apple's optical stylus design includes THREE different sensors in the stylus, including a camera. It's designed to detect itself in 3D space and is actually very cool.
Don't be an unthinking fandroid and post rubbish like Samsung should sue Apple over a stylus.
That being said, it's interesting to see Apple now apparently acknowledging the utility of the stylus after publicly scoffing at it when they revealed their iPhone way back when.
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they blew it
Also samsung didn't create the stylus in the note, wacom did.
They wont be putting stylus in iPhone or iPad, they did it just to limit Samsung if they decide to make new and better stylus for newer phones/tablets... Now they won't be able to put gyroscope or camera into it, because its Apple's patent ... Apple is becoming serious patent troll ...
Lol apple.... I'll never buy apple products again, fking hypocrites. I'm soooooo happy with android and my galaxy note!!
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I like Apple products but I just HATE Apple.
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I love my Macbook Pro. But this is annoying....Apple is either: A) Just trying to prevent Samsung from doing something cool with a new version of the Note or B) They are changing their mind and since Steve Jobs isn't around they are making a stylus and copying Samsung because they see "oh, people might actually like that.
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing. They always copy features that Android started first, typically. If Android manufacturers make a "feature" on their phones and the consumers love it, Apple will come around and say "Oh, ya'll actually like that, we just thought it wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but because you like it we'll add it now".
Aggravating. But, Apple is doing something right, they are making billions on people. I'll stick with Google, Android, and manufacturers, namely Samsung.
Its an ingenious little patent I'll grant that. The Note has proved that designers want to use a mobile device for their work and Apple obviously wants a piece of that. This device will allow much more refined stylus experience.... using the top part as a rubber...(Although Wacom already have this) using the pen at an angle to deliver a light shading effect.
That being said.... Apple won't release it for a long time and they'll release an incredibly basic version with minor upgradea up until the iNote 5
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rlaw said:
That being said, it's interesting to see Apple now apparently acknowledging the utility of the stylus after publicly scoffing at it when they revealed their iPhone way back when.
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Yup, like when Jobs was saying what a stupid idea tablets were initially and then Apple releasing the iPad a few years later.
But yes, Stylus's (Stylii?) have been around for decades, and just because Apple have applied for a patent for their version doesn't mean they'll be granted one, although given how pathetic the patent system is, they probably will be.
A decent stylus would make the ipad much more attractive to people wanting to do design work. They need to do something different other than just sticking a faster processor, better screen or LTE modem, in the next iteration, maybe this will be it.
Samsung and Apple already have more than enough lawsuits in progress against each other, they hardly need to add more at this stage.
Also - Apple has probably thought of the market for accessory stylus's, they can sell lots of different coloured ones other than the inevitable white or black one they'll release initially and make even more bank.
knightnz said:
Yup, like when Jobs was saying what a stupid idea tablets were initially and then Apple releasing the iPad a few years later.
But yes, Stylus's (Stylii?) have been around for decades, and just because Apple have applied for a patent for their version doesn't mean they'll be granted one, although given how pathetic the patent system is, they probably will be.
A decent stylus would make the ipad much more attractive to people wanting to do design work. They need to do something different other than just sticking a faster processor, better screen or LTE modem, in the next iteration, maybe this will be it.
Samsung and Apple already have more than enough lawsuits in progress against each other, they hardly need to add more at this stage.
Also - Apple has probably thought of the market for accessory stylus's, they can sell lots of different coloured ones other than the inevitable white or black one they'll release initially and make even more bank.
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This is actually really intelligent on Apple's part. They're recognizing that creative minded people want to use their products for art creation. Releasing their own special, branded stylus with some bells and whistles is a no brainer. Especially since it looks like they're not going to license wacom tech. They'll be making some healthy margins on a beefy markup.
That being said, this seems like it may be another area where Google cedes a niche market to Apple, the other being audio related tasks. Android's audio latency is pretty terrible.
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andreww88 said:
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing.
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Totally agree. Marketing, and timing.
It all started with the iPod, and that ingenious marketing campaign with the black silhouettes and white headphones. Didn't take long before the iPod became the dominant mp3 player in the market - despite there being better alternatives.
onehundredbullets said:
Totally agree. Marketing, and timing.
It all started with the iPod, and that ingenious marketing campaign with the black silhouettes and white headphones. Didn't take long before the iPod became the dominant mp3 player in the market - despite there being better alternatives.
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This is why other companies aren't anywhere near Apple in profit and mindshare right now. This manner of thinking.
You're focusing on the pieces and not the whole. Apple doesn't simply sell a function or a stand-alone piece - they sell an experience to accompany a lifestyle. Which is where other companies wanna buy.
Despite there being technically superior options as far as audio quality, support goes - none of the other solutions were designed with the whole package in mind.
None had the whole shebang together. None had the build quality (those 1st/2nd gen iPods still work to this very day), none had the ease of use and intuitiveness (the click wheel is really where the iPad came into its own), the software solution. Drag 'n' drop is simple but Average Joe doesn't want to mount his storage device and manually send things over, he wants to connect, forget and let the computer do things for him. I hate iTunes with a passion but if you don't mind locking down your collection and being part of the Apple ecosystem (preferably with a Mac cos the iTunes Windows experience is torture), you won't find a more polished complete package.
Apple markets exactly what they sell - an experience that comes along with a lifestyle. And with that comes healthy margins and insane profits. Why d'you think Samsung wants to be more Apple-like in approach, design and marketing (Sony tried to be the Apple of Japan for a while but they screwed the pooch on that one)?
Most people don't want to reconcile themselves around technology, they want the technology to fit them. And Apple is genius at that.
So take your irrational hate of Apple, stick it in a pipe and smoke it. Recognize what they've done well and recognize what competitors can take out of their book. Let's see if you continue to blithely stand by Samsung once they adopt more and more Apple-esque business, design and marketing (hello S3 announcement event) practices.
Why would they do that? Because when you're no longer a commodity, you can command higher pricws, margins and profits.
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andreww88 said:
I love my Macbook Pro. But this is annoying....Apple is either: A) Just trying to prevent Samsung from doing something cool with a new version of the Note or B) They are changing their mind and since Steve Jobs isn't around they are making a stylus and copying Samsung because they see "oh, people might actually like that.
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing. They always copy features that Android started first, typically. If Android manufacturers make a "feature" on their phones and the consumers love it, Apple will come around and say "Oh, ya'll actually like that, we just thought it wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but because you like it we'll add it now".
Aggravating. But, Apple is doing something right, they are making billions on people. I'll stick with Google, Android, and manufacturers, namely Samsung.
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They couldn't have copied android when they released the iPhone first. Remember who was on apples board of directors....
That said, seems like a cool patent & as someone said many creative people use the iPad now as an art device. So this makes sense as another accessory.
monkeyluis said:
They couldn't have copied android when they released the iPhone first. Remember who was on apples board of directors....
That said, seems like a cool patent & as someone said many creative people use the iPad now as an art device. So this makes sense as another accessory.
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Right, an iPhone with no apps or app store. Steve Jobs said the iPhone would never run apps...hmmm
Steve Jobs said that Stylus is dead and we should be grateful to Apple for killing it so if Samsung did not patent it, they're probably just trying to acquire it for licensing fees.
But again they said that 4" screen is just not good and not ergonomic etc. Now they'll probably use 4" screen because people actually want it - and call it magical and revolutionary ( not to mention amazing ).
Yes, sarcasm intended