Hey this is a great tablet, but I noticed a bug and was curious if anyone else had this issue? When my screen is on max brightness and charging I noticed the battery will slowly lose charge. This becomes the most obvious if watching netflix or gaming. I hope someone can point me in the right direction of fixing this, unless of course it is a physical limitation of the device.
Edit: I have this problem when charging to a wall outlet, and when connected by usb. I am using the stock samsung charger. I understand the limitations of usb charging through a computer I am more suprised by the AC adapter connected to a home outlet not supplying enough current.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
I have had this problem but only with brightness up and charging via computer.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
Search the web I believe I read that this unfortunately is a problem with the device. Maybe it was attack of the show. I know I heard/read it somewhere.
Sent from my NookTablet using xda app-developers app
The Nexus 10 charges pretty slowly, so if it's using more power than it's getting, it's going to go down (though slower than if you weren't plugged in). Computers generally can't supply that much current, and most USB chargers are 1A. The stock charger is 2A, so use that when possible for faster charging.
rp181 said:
The Nexus 10 charges pretty slowly, so if it's using more power than it's getting, it's going to go down (though slower than if you weren't plugged in). Computers generally can't supply that much current, and most USB chargers are 1A. The stock charger is 2A, so use that when possible for faster charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing that you plug into a AC outlet is a power supply not a charger. The charger is in the N10. I've measured it with a current clamp meter and the N10 isn't even asking for half of the 2A that the power supply can deliver.
wptski said:
The thing that you plug into a AC outlet is a power supply not a charger. The charger is in the N10. I've measured it with a current clamp meter and the N10 isn't even asking for half of the 2A that the power supply can deliver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clamp meters generally aren't that accurate for such low amperage (obviously depends on the meter). In any case, the 2A supply can give enough for the battery to charge and for the device to be used concurrently. It may draw an amp just for charging, but that leaves another amp for the device to be used while maintaining peak charging speed.
This is all speculative, as I'm not 100% that the charging and device power usage is parallel.
Here's an easier way to determine N10 charging power that anyone can do. Get a Kill-A-Watt for $18 from Walmart, and plug the AC adapter into that. This doesn't directly tell you how much current the N10 pulls, but does allow you to infer charging current from the wattage pulled from the wall. You can then compare it with iPad 4 charging graph (in wattage) to determine N10 charging power as a percentage of iPad.
Below we see iPad 4 pulling a constant 13.6W for ~4hr before tapering off. iPad 4 uses the new 12W (2.4A) charger w/ Lightning connector. Assuming 80% conversion efficiency, it's about 10W (2A) going to iPad. iPad 4 averages 5-6hr for a full charge.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7
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iPad 4: Battery size = 42.5Whr, charge current = 2A, charge time = 6hr. N10 has 33.3Whr battery, and also averages 6hr. Assuming similar charging power curve, N10 would need to pull 2A * (33.3/42.5) = ~1.6A to achieve same charging time. So a measurement of less than 1A charging current is likely inaccurate, unless measurement was taken at the (tapered) tail end of the charging process.
Note 1: Per Anandtech, iPad also suffers from net-loss charging under heavy use, so the slow-charging issue stems from USB charging's limitation for high-capacity devices.
Note 2: Charging power may also be limited for thermal reasons. N10 already have a thermal throttling problem as it is, and faster charging would make this worse.
rp181 said:
Clamp meters generally aren't that accurate for such low amperage (obviously depends on the meter). In any case, the 2A supply can give enough for the battery to charge and for the device to be used concurrently. It may draw an amp just for charging, but that leaves another amp for the device to be used while maintaining peak charging speed.
This is all speculative, as I'm not 100% that the charging and device power usage is parallel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's high quality amp meter using its 4000mA range. It's draw less than 1A total, so if the battery is at 80%, it's not charging it as fast as it can. It runs off the battery and the charger replaces the usage. If demand is high, more comes out of the battery than the charger is putting in, not because it can't get it from the PS either.
It could charge twice as fast but the N10's internal charger is slow.
Arg consensus says it's related to an internal charger limitation, no hope of a software fix? Well thanks for the responses.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
e.mote said:
Here's an easier way to determine N10 charging power that anyone can do. Get a Kill-A-Watt for $18 from Walmart, and plug the AC adapter into that. This doesn't directly tell you how much current the N10 pulls, but does allow you to infer charging current from the wattage pulled from the wall. You can then compare it with iPad 4 charging graph (in wattage) to determine N10 charging power as a percentage of iPad.
Below we see iPad 4 pulling a constant 13.6W for ~4hr before tapering off. iPad 4 uses the new 12W (2.4A) charger w/ Lightning connector. Assuming 80% conversion efficiency, it's about 10W (2A) going to iPad. iPad 4 averages 5-6hr for a full charge.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7
iPad 4: Battery size = 42.5Whr, charge current = 2A, charge time = 6hr. N10 has 33.3Whr battery, and also averages 6hr. Assuming similar charging power curve, N10 would need to pull 2A * (33.3/42.5) = ~1.6A to achieve same charging time. So a measurement of less than 1A charging current is likely inaccurate, unless measurement was taken at the (tapered) tail end of the charging process.
Note 1: Per Anandtech, iPad also suffers from net-loss charging under heavy use, so the slow-charging issue stems from USB charging's limitation for high-capacity devices.
Note 2: Charging power may also be limited for thermal reasons. N10 already have a thermal throttling problem as it is, and faster charging would make this worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The AC current drawn by the charger doesn't infer the DC current. I have "AA" charger that charges at 7.5A(not a typo) and it doesn't draw 7.5A AC. I have a car battery charges at 2, 4, 10, 40A and car start at 100A and of course, a normal wall socket is limited to 20A max.
I'll have to check that again at a lower battery level to make it wasn't in the constant voltage part of the charging process.
I measured over 1800mA current draw with the screen on full and 2400mA with full brightness playing asphalt 7
I measured my tablet going from empty to full in 5.5 hours which makes current from the PSU around 1600mA
Looks to be that USB2 can't keep up with the power this tablet can consume when working flat out. Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
>The AC current drawn by the charger doesn't infer the DC current.
AC current isn't considered; I'm looking only at the wattage and assuming 80% conversion efficiency. We know that USB = 5V, so from there we can infer DC amperage. It doesn't make sense to use a 2+A adapter at less than 50% of its rated output, especially when the charging time is already a long ~6hr. Using iPad as a baseline provides another point of reference, which says that 6hr charging time is probably considered "normal" for this high-capacity category.
>Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
As said, higher thermal would be a problem for faster charging. The underlying issue is N10's high-res screen, which only the Exy 5 can drive at the time of design, and why the latter was selected (Duarte dude said as much in N10 promo clip). The screen+SoC combo requires more power than can be compensated for, in both its thermal envelope and its charging capacity.
Found the promo clip. Listen at the 9:46 mark, or click on the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&t=586
e.mote said:
>The AC current drawn by the charger doesn't infer the DC current.
AC current isn't considered; I'm looking only at the wattage and assuming 80% conversion efficiency. We know that USB = 5V, so from there we can infer DC amperage. It doesn't make sense to use a 2+A adapter at less than 50% of its rated output, especially when the charging time is already a long ~6hr. Using iPad as a baseline provides another point of reference, which says that 6hr charging time is probably considered "normal" for this high-capacity category.
>Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
As said, higher thermal would be a problem for faster charging. The underlying issue is N10's high-res screen, which only the Exy 5 can drive at the time of design, and why the latter was selected (Duarte dude said as much in N10 promo clip). The screen+SoC combo requires more power than can be compensated for, in both its thermal envelope and its charging capacity.
Found the promo clip. Listen at the 9:46 mark, or click on the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&t=586
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watts=volts x current. 2A or 2.1A USB power supplies are a common size. Using a overrated PS isn't uncommon.
skally said:
I measured over 1800mA current draw with the screen on full and 2400mA with full brightness playing asphalt 7
I measured my tablet going from empty to full in 5.5 hours which makes current from the PSU around 1600mA
Looks to be that USB2 can't keep up with the power this tablet can consume when working flat out. Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you measuring the current?
I think some of the chargers are defective.
I bought a 3rd party usb power brick and it charges in about 5 hours.
The one that came with it took overnight.
OK what others are saying is that the issue is from the limitations of USB in general unable to exceed 1.8 amps. I guess we have to wait until a decent pogo charger comes out which is rumored to have 2amps. There are 3rd party ones being sold for around 24 bucks on ebay.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
wptski said:
How did you measuring the current?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I calculated these numbers from usage data.
battery capacity / hours of use
screen on full brightness
9Ah / 5 hours = 1.8A
Playing Asphalt
9Ah / 3h 40 min = 2.4A
These numbers actually close to double with the screen on around 20% brightness
---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------
e.mote said:
As said, higher thermal would be a problem for faster charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are alternatives. Microsoft managed just fine with a 24w Charger. I suspect it runs at 12V 2A, but can't find any specs
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/9
ASUS also do something similar, using 15 Volts to lower the current and reduce energy lost in heat.
skally said:
I calculated these numbers from usage data.
battery capacity / hours of use
screen on full brightness
9Ah / 5 hours = 1.8A
Playing Asphalt
9Ah / 3h 40 min = 2.4A
These numbers actually close to double with the screen on around 20% brightness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you get 2.4A from a 2.0Ah PS?
I retested making sure my battery was low enough, at 80% with it OFF, I got around 800ma. It isn't my meter but there is one posible flaw in my setup though. I'm using a USB extension cord and it may be causing a voltage drop because of the added lenght and skewing the reading.
The voltage drop should be negligible for a USB cable, and any minor deviations should be corrected via regulator in the Nexus 10.
rp181 said:
The voltage drop should be negligible for a USB cable, and any minor deviations should be corrected via regulator in the Nexus 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then my max 800ma charging rate is correct and skally's calculations are incorrect??
Related
I recently purchased a handful of Monoprice micro USB cables in 3 different lengths. I thought it would be interesting to test the different cables with two different chargers and share the results.
Test Equipment:
Load: Samsung Galaxy Note 2, Custom 4.3 ROM (Carbon), battery @60%
Measuring tool: Charge Doctor (USB voltage and amp meter)
Stuff to test:
Cables: 12", 36" and 72" Monoprice micro USB cables
Charger 1: Samsung 2.0A USB charger (Stock Note 2)
Charger 2: Asus 1.35A USB Charger (Stock Nexus 7, 2013)
Assumption:
Each of the Monoprice USB cables are made with the same gage wire, visually they look the same.
Method:
Phone turned on, camera app loaded, attached the test USB cable photographed the results on the amp meter. I tested each of the 3 cables the same way and repeated the tests with the 2nd charger. Did it all within 10 minutes so that the amount of charge on the phone didn't change significantly.
Results: (See attachments)
Analysis:
- The Asus charger, even though it is capable of putting out 1.35A and even though the phone is capable of accepting at least 1.0A (demonstrated with the Samsung charger), it could only deliver .73A
- The Asus charger seemed to max out at .73A as the 12" and 36" cables had the same results
- The graph indicates the Samsung charger may be able to do better with an even shorter cable
Conclusions:
1) The shorter the cable the faster the charge, but there's a limit
2) The higher amps the charger is capable of, the faster the charge, there must be a limit but I only had 2 chargers to test
3) Duh!
Awesome data. As expected, there is a difference between the current rating on the charger, max current draw on the phone, and actual use, but I didn't expect it to be so much.
I'm curious how much my charger setup gets and concerned that if I did get up above 1A I might overheat my phone. Next test is battery temperature after a few minutes of charging at various currents.
lbloo said:
Analysis:
- The Asus charger, even though it is capable of putting out 1.35A and even though the phone is capable of accepting at least 1.0A (demonstrated with the Samsung charger), it could only deliver .73A
- The Asus charger seemed to max out at .73A as the 12" and 36" cables had the same results
- The graph indicates the Samsung charger may be able to do better with an even shorter cable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scrawson said:
Awesome data. As expected, there is a difference between the current rating on the charger, max current draw on the phone, and actual use, but I didn't expect it to be so much.
I'm curious how much my charger setup gets and concerned that if I did get up above 1A I might overheat my phone. Next test is battery temperature after a few minutes of charging at various currents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea, I even have an IR instant read thermometer, but it'll take more time to test. To give the battery time to heat up I'd assume I'd have to wait at least 5 minutes, then I'd have to let it rest to get back to room temperature, that might take even longer. If I get ambitious I'll do it.
very interesting test....
Easy answer.
It does not.
(unless you have a cable so long, the voltage drop over the cable brings the voltage below 4.75V)
buster_friendly said:
Easy answer.
It does not.
(unless you have a cable so long, the voltage drop over the cable brings the voltage below 4.75V)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tests I did certainly seem to indicate cable length does affect charge rate.
The wire gauge plays a part. Larger and longer should be about the same as smaller and shorter.
But at 5 volt and low amps. It would be hard to measure.
IMHO.
Sent from my XT897 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Scrawson said:
Awesome data. As expected, there is a difference between the current rating on the charger, max current draw on the phone, and actual use, but I didn't expect it to be so much.
I'm curious how much my charger setup gets and concerned that if I did get up above 1A I might overheat my phone. Next test is battery temperature after a few minutes of charging at various currents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The source, wiring and connections may limit the current, but so will the phone: don't worry about using a cable shorter than the average mosquito
With most devices you can actually choose between some preset limits (or freely input one) through sysfs...
Basically if u charge with usb cable......it will take more times....
So what amperage do I need to charge a N7 with a 50 foot cable with 4 22 gauge conductors??
hi there. although this thread is old. id like to share my experience on this matter. So i bought a fast charger brand samsung S6. it comes with its own cable. so one day the cable broke so i modified it to be longer. Im using a zenfone 6. the samsung charger blok support up to 2.1A. So the cable now is 5 feet. before i charge my phone from 0% to 100% takes 2.5 hours to fill up. now after enhancing the cable length my phone took 6 hour to fill up from 0% to 100%.
Then i bought a Hp cable that is just around 7cm in length charged my phone and supprisingly it only took 2 hrs to charge my phone from 0% to 100%.. Length does matter LOL!!!
Just sharing, i know its not even a high tech stuff. Am just reviving an old thread thats all.. cheers.
Yes because the flow of current
sent from IT Heaven
---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------
Becaues the flow of current
sent from IT Heaven
I'm using a Samsung Galaxy Note charger with mine because I ordered from UK and North American sockets are different.
Anyway, the phone charges fast, despite what reviews say, I'm just a bit concerned that it could be affecting my battery's life or something.
how long does it take to charge it? can you take a picture of the charger so we can read the description of the output?
janedoe5000 said:
I'm using a Samsung Galaxy Note charger with mine because I ordered from UK and North American sockets are different.
Anyway, the phone charges fast, despite what reviews say, I'm just a bit concerned that it could be affecting my battery's life or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the Ampere output on your Note charger? It should be printed on the side
tonkemaskin said:
What's the Ampere output on your Note charger? It should be printed on the side
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy Note 3 charger is 2A. I tried a Nexus 10 fake charger (2A verified, uses 15W from wall socket @2A with the Nexus 10 to provide 5V/2A (10W, not measured)) while Sony original 1.5A charger uses 9.3W to provide 5V/1.5A (7.5W, not measured). Connecting the Nexus 10 charger to the Xperia Z3 compact it uses only 9.4W so it only take 1.5A or less even with an high gauge USB cable.
Therefore I would say that the phone never uses more than 1.5A no matter what's the charger.
---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------
janedoe5000 said:
I'm just a bit concerned that it could be affecting my battery's life or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually LiPo/Li-ion batteries support 1C charge without problem (as long as the charger slows down at the end). The capacity of the Xperia battery is 2600mAh, therefore 1C would be 2.6A, with a 2.1A or 2A charger you encounter absolutely no risk. Also even using an higher current charger, every phone (with a lithium based battery) integrates a charge regulator which will limit the maximum current according to their specifications. Therefore higher amperage is not a problem as higher voltage would be, it's more the highest current the charger CAN provide, not it actually provides.
It will charge even quicker, as the phone(Z3 and Z3 Compact) is Quick Charge 2.0 certified, you will just need to get a charger that is Quick charge 2.0 certified as well (i.e. Moto Turbo Charger). Feasibly, it could be charged in 45 mintues form 0-100%.
The charger will be my next purchase.
Not sure what's considered fast or slow when it comes to charging, but just using a generic USB charger with wall plug-in adaptor (as I do with all my phones without issue), I'm fully charged after a complete drain in about 2 hours. However, if there is some magical charger that can do this in 45 mins, I would totally invest in that!
boojay said:
Not sure what's considered fast or slow when it comes to charging, but just using a generic USB charger with wall plug-in adaptor (as I do with all my phones without issue), I'm fully charged after a complete drain in about 2 hours. However, if there is some magical charger that can do this in 45 mins, I would totally invest in that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/20/4...ers-75-percent-faster-charging-snapdragon-800
NRG1975 said:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/20/4...ers-75-percent-faster-charging-snapdragon-800
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. I'm assuming there must be an 801 variant. Let us know how well it works when you do get one. For now I don't mind the slower charge since I leave my phone plugged in overnight, but I can forsee occasions where I would need a speedier solution.
You could use any tablet usb charger, they charge faster
Is magnet port charging faster that mini usb charging?
unk3 said:
Is magnet port charging faster that mini usb charging?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get about 900-1100 mAh with my magnetic charger. It takes about 2.5 hours to charge my device.
So youre saying that the Magnet Charger is significantly (33%) slower than the Micro Usb? Lame...
Yup. it's more of a convenience factor. I dislike opening the side panels and I usually just charge overnight w/ the dock (which also charges at the same rate).
zoome9 said:
I get about 900-1100 mAh with my magnetic charger. It takes about 2.5 hours to charge my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to be a standard charging time
difto said:
Seems to be a standard charging time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought unk3 was maybe referencing a quick charger? The only thing aside from the quick charge that charged faster, was Samsung's. I think my old S5 was getting 1800mAh.
zoome9 said:
I thought unk3 was maybe referencing a quick charger? The only thing aside from the quick charge that charged faster, was Samsung's. I think my old S5 was getting 1800mAh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he was referencing 900-1100mAh vs. 1500mAh of the stock charger. So to correct it there is absolutely no difference from a technical point of view between USB or magnetic port, there are not more less losses assuming the quality of the cable is the same, it is just a different plug. The magnet only holds the plug, the connection is wired and not inductive therefore efficiency is.the same.
there can be a difference, because magnetic port does not have the 2 additional pins that phones like to use to identify the maximum current they can draw from the charger, so...
yozas said:
there can be a difference, because magnetic port does not have the 2 additional pins that phones like to use to identify the maximum current they can draw from the charger, so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is Apple BS to explain the incompatibility of their iPhone with most chargers on the market at the time. The phone does not need to identify the charger max amperage at all,the charger is simply a 5V DC power supply with a defined max amperage like a wall outlet provides 110V or 220V AC at max 10/16/20/32A. The charging circuit of the phone does all the job: transform 5V to 4.2V and then regulates the amperage going to the battery at constant voltage. There is a difference with a wall outlet though, if the rating is lower than what the phone requests then the charge will simply be longer and the charger will not burn (at least if it is lawful).
difto said:
This is Apple BS to explain the incompatibility of their iPhone with most chargers on the market at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple has their own strategy with chargers, it is a mix of marketing and truth, however this case is really not marketing, it's just how it works.
The phone does not need to identify the charger max amperage at all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It definitely does need to, that is, if you want your phone to draw more than 500mA. USB standard does not allow a device to draw more than 500mA from the port, and all phones conform to that. That's why it charges slowly if you plug your mobile phone into a computers USB port, the internal charger circuitry inside the phone limits the maximum current "ceiling" that it will try to draw to mere 500mA.
the charger is simply a 5V DC power supply with a defined max amperage like a wall outlet provides 110V or 220V AC at max 10/16/20/32A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct on the defined max amperage part. Every DC power supply has it's maximum current limit, just like ordinary computer USB port (which can supply max 500mA, if you step higher than that, the current overload protection in the computer shuts the port down (and windows will give you an error about a power surge on USB port X). That's precisely why a phone must identify if the power supply that it is connected to can give higher than 500mA current, as to not overload it.
The charging circuit of the phone does all the job: transform 5V to 4.2V and then regulates the amperage going to the battery at constant voltage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct
There is a difference with a wall outlet though, if the rating is lower than what the phone requests then the charge will simply be longer and the charger will not burn (at least if it is lawful).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, many cheap ones will overheat (shorten the lifespan of electrolytic capacitors, etc) and even burn. And even some that are not cheap will burn. Others will be periodically shutting down by internal thermal protection, then turning on again after it cools down, this is not good either.
If you use a magnetic charger then the phone loses the ability to identify if it's connected to a computers USB port, or a charger that can supply more than 500mA. And in this case it will stay on the safe side and will not try to draw more than 500mA (charge slower) from the port.
As for the identification, you can check that pins 2 and 3 are shorted in the charger's USB port, that is how the phone "knows" that it is connected to a charger with high current ability. You can get some spare USB cable and make an experiment, cut the wires that go from pins 2 and 3, and you will see that the phone will limit the current to 500mA.
yozas said:
Apple has their own strategy with chargers, it is a mix of marketing and truth, however this case is really not marketing, it's just how it works.
It definitely does need to, that is, if you want your phone to draw more than 500mA. USB standard does not allow a device to draw more than 500mA from the port, and all phones conform to that. That's why it charges slowly if you plug your mobile phone into a computers USB port, the internal charger circuitry inside the phone limits the maximum current "ceiling" that it will try to draw to mere 500mA.
You are correct on the defined max amperage part. Every DC power supply has it's maximum current limit, just like ordinary computer USB port (which can supply max 500mA, if you step higher than that, the current overload protection in the computer shuts the port down (and windows will give you an error about a power surge on USB port X). That's precisely why a phone must identify if the power supply that it is connected to can give higher than 500mA current, as to not overload it.
Correct
Yeah, many cheap ones will overheat (shorten the lifespan of electrolytic capacitors, etc) and even burn. And even some that are not cheap will burn. Others will be periodically shutting down by internal thermal protection, then turning on again after it cools down, this is not good either.
If you use a magnetic charger then the phone loses the ability to identify if it's connected to a computers USB port, or a charger that can supply more than 500mA. And in this case it will stay on the safe side and will not try to draw more than 500mA (charge slower) from the port.
As for the identification, you can check that pins 2 and 3 are shorted in the charger's USB port, that is how the phone "knows" that it is connected to a charger with high current ability. You can get some spare USB cable and make an experiment, cut the wires that go from pins 2 and 3, and you will see that the phone will limit the current to 500mA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Experiment done: I beg to differ, the phone draws 1.5A from the magnetic port, see attached picture (it is the current drawn from a 2S battery at 7.62V so roughly 1.5A at 5V. Also this circuit can provide 2A at 5V which means that the phone never draws more than 1.5A no matter what the charger is.
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The fact that data lines only indicates it is a charger and not a computer, data lines at not shorted but connected to a certain resistance function of the amperage of the charger if they follow the apple scheme.
There's a wall of text below, but you can skip all that here and just soak in my answers to some general interest questions. My data is presented below in case you want to bore yourself with the details.
See post #7 for QC3 data http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66646418&postcount=7
1. Does using a micro-USB to USB-C adapter impede charging amperage, as measured by the Android OS?
No, actually not significantly at all. I'm somewhat surprised by this.
2. Does the LG charger work as fast as a certified QC2 charger?
Yes, pretty much.
3. Does AOD affect charging rates? With QC2, the amperage drops significantly if charging with the screen on, using the phone, etc. AOD probably is different, so let's prove it.
AOD does NOT appear to affect charging rates, though if the phone is charging in a bright environment it might.
4. What are some standard temperatures in these scenarios and at rest?
During charging, the highest my phone hits is ~31-32oC. With it plugged in but not delivering any amperage, it cools to ~23oC. At rest, unplugged, depending on ambient temps, it varies anywhere in the 20s.
5. What amperage does QC2 provide at max?
~3000mA, if the battery % is low enough. And not for very long. For comparison, on my G4, the max was about ~2400mA on QC2, 1800mA with a non-QC charger.
EDIT: I've found that the Android OS cannot accurately list amperage numbers. I think this is because it presumes all input will be at 5V. With QC2 and QC3, this is no longer the case. With my USB multimeter and a QC2 charger, the max amperage is ~2.4A, which slowly drops as the charging % increases.
6. How long does it take to fully charge the G5?
On QC2.0, 1 hour 20 minutes, from 0 to 100%.
There's been some discussion regarding charging rates and charging adapters on our newly released G5s. In the US, on T-Mobile, the phone comes with a QC2-style charger, "Fast Charge." I have read this is not exactly the same an official certified QC2 (I don't know how accurate that is though).
The QC2 standard supports 4 different modes, 5V/2A, 9V/2A, 12V/1.67A, and a 20v option. For comparison, QC3 has dynamic voltage, going from 3.2v - 20v.
The 'fast charge' adapter provided by LG supports the 9v and 5v modes, though the amperage is listed as 1.8A:
9.0V @ 1.8A or
5.0V @ 1.8A
In addition to the LG stock adapter, I also have a Tronsmart QC2 charger which is rated at 5V/2A, 9V/2A, and 12V/1.5A. http://www.amazon.com/Updated-Versi...direct=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage#Ask
In addition to the stock LG-provided USB-A to USB-C cable, I have some TechMatte micro-USB to USB-C converters, Benson approved. Everyone invested in Android has tons of micro-USB cords, but USB-C not so much. These cheap adapters help with the transition. They are the #1 sellers on Amazon and available here:
http://amazon.com/TechMatte-Connect...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00
With my 2 chargers and 2 cable set ups, I attempted to systematically document the charging using Battery Monitor Widget Pro (BMW Pro), a great app because it will log a host of stats with no user intervention. (This may not be as accurate as someone using external equipment like a Charger Doctor, but it's good enough for our purposes).
First, some general observations. The first day I had the G5 I did not activate the SIM, nor did I install all my apps. So overnight, it sat connected to wifi but not doing much else. Doze was able to get an impressive -5mA drain for much of the night. Not such a surprise since it wasn't trying to do much. This is without AOD.
Second, when the phone was going through its initial re-installation of my dozens of apps, it ran up to ~40oC. I don't think this is surprising, but it was good to nail down a number.
Third, the voltage tops out at 4400mV. The charger keeps drawing a decent mA for ~40 minutes after it hits 100%. Maybe some additional top-off juice?
Methodology - No phone interaction during the relevant measurement time. Kept whatever other background apps running. BMW Pro logged measurements every 10 minutes. Connected to wifi.
Scenario A - QC2.0 Tronsmart charger with LG-supplied USB-C cable. I would expect this to be the fastest since the charger has 3 modes to choose from (though the wattage from the 12V and 9V is technically the same) and there is no adapter to flow through.
This charging cycle data was collected after I ran my battery completely down. I then rebooted and plugged in the charger asap. This data shows the max amperage to be ~3000mA. This slowly decreases over time.
A simpler read of the charge rate data:
18% @ 10 min, 3063 ma
38% @ 20 min, 2866 ma
57% @ 30 min, 2653 ma
72% @ 40 min, 2025 ma
84% @ 50 min, 1484 ma
92% @ 60 min, 974 ma
97% @ 1:10, 538 ma
100% @ 1:20, 437 ma
Scenario B - Always on display with Tronsmart QC2.0 and USB-C cable. Does AOD change anything from Scenario A?
One thing I noticed is that the AOD is responsive to ambient lighting! So that definitely could alter whatever charging curve we record. This cycle was initially started at 0% in a room with some fading sunlight but no direct illumination. This run was hampered by the phone shutting down from a low battery at the very beginning of the cycle despite being plugged in! Maybe there was too much current demanded by the phone as it booted up and with the AOD on. So this run necessitated starting at ~2%. Hence a 2% 'bump' in the early data points.
Transcribing the data:
21% @ 10 min, 3017 ma
40% @ 20 min, 3065 ma
60% @ 30 min, 2654 ma
74% @ 40 min, 2022 ma
86% @ 50 min, 1482 ma
93% @ 60 min, 975 ma
97% @ 1:10 min, 537 ma
100% @ 1:20 min, 399 ma
Once again it takes 1:20 for a full charge. Despite the 2-3% variability on the lower end, the higher data points basically match Scenario A's. So I would conclude having AOD on does not affect charging times, though that could change if the phone was in a bright environment.
Scenario C - "Fast charge" adapter provided from LG, with micro-USB to USB-C adapter. I would have guessed this would be the slowest charge.
Starting amperage here was again ~3000mA. I didn't start this cycle at 0%, probably more like 25%, but the charging percentages coincidentally lined up remarkably well for a good comparison. (I'd want a 0% start cycle to really confirm this data which I may add in the future).
38% @ 10 min, 3065 ma.
58% @ 20 min, 2654 ma
72% @ 30 min, 2021 ma
84% @ 40 min, 1479 ma
92% @ 50 min, 974 ma
97% @ 60 min, 664 ma
100% @ 1:10 min, 419 ma
So even though the charging started at 25% battery (so obviously the time measurements can't line up), the % charged sample points line up for nearly direct comparisons to Scenario A. At each battery %, the mA are nearly identical. So I'm concluding there's very little mA loss from the adapter.
You might argue for 2 other scenarios here for full comparison, the QC2.0 charger with the adapter and the LG charger with the USB-C cable. Maybe in another update. Currently, I think Scenario A and C here would be the fastest and slowest, respectively, at charging, so showing there is no difference at the extremes makes the other 2 scenarios less important.
If you get a chance, can you try with screen on & verify if you see what I've found that QC3 charges then at 1A & QC2 at 0.3A above 35c & 0.6A when cooler than 35C.
If so, it confirms that the real tangible benefit of QC3 is if you charge with screen on frequently, eg in a car would see a big boon.
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seems strange they have stepped away from the usual cc/cv li charging routine. is this a QC change?
I'm still in the midst of collecting data for the next presentation. There are a lot of permutations to go through, with a couple of cables and chargers.
In the meantime, I did confirm @stuart0001's observation that with the screen on, QC3.0 charges at ~1000mA, seen below (yellow band means screen on, green means AC power charging):
I didn't charge it all the way, just for ~30 minutes, but each measurement during that time did show the same charging amperage.
Also to add thoroughness, I have ordered a USB current/volt passthrough meter to more accurately report what happens.
More to come!
i find that the cheap as chips Samsung fast adaptive (2we version) charger you can get for around £5 on ebay works perfectly with the G5 and it recognises it as a fast charger.
waylo said:
I don't have a QC3 charger and I am debating if it is really worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's easier on the battery so you might get more life out of it.
QC2 charges as fast as it can then slows.
QC3 charges as fast as the phone will allow.
This can have a bearing on battery longevity. How much longer is debatable since you're still using QC which will be more stressful than non QC. The stock charger might not be QC but it is a fast charger and 1h30 is about std to from from empty to full with it.
See this post
less than a year and its replace battery time. Fortunately, not a big deal on LG's
QC3.0 data!
I have been working with 2 QC3.0 wall chargers with USB-A ports over the past couple of weeks. I’ve also purchased a USB voltmeter/ammeter to help with more measurements to understand our charging capabilities.
One charger is the ChoeTech QC3.0 18W USB Wall Charger, available here:
http://amazon.com/Charge-Charger-Co...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
The other is the Tronsmart WC1T 18W USB Wall Charger, available here:
http://www.amazon.com/Tronsmart-WC1...rue&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_1&smid=ALTVS0Q5KJ7M3
For full disclosure, I received both as free retail products courtesy of each company. They were both delivered via Amazon so they are the same as you’d get if you ordered them yourself.
I purchased for myself a very cheap USB multimeter, available here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400963912153
It does okay. I then purchased a more reputable Drok multimeter, available here: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Multime...true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=AFHAE9RJVUMB
Finally, ChoeTech provided a fairly capable USB multimeter of their own manufacture for my testing purposes.
Once again, my talking points first. Then a bunch of nitty gritty details afterwards if you so care.
1. Both QC3.0 chargers are made well and supply variable voltage, the main difference between QC3.0 and QC2.0.
2. The charging times for QC2.0 and QC3.0 are nearly identical!
3. The voltage used to attain these charging times, however, is much lower in QC3.0 than QC2.0. This will help with battery longevity.
4. We do NOT get the 80% in 35 minutes charging that is sometimes touted in QC3 ads. More like 65%. There are some reasons for this.
5. USB-C specification compliant USB-A to USB-C cables DO NOT limit our QC3.0 phone to 5V and 2.4A. This is safe per Qualcomm.
6. Our G5 phones seem to like ~6.5-7.0V charging voltage when used with a QC3.0 adapter. With our LG QC2-ish fast adapter it stays around 9V the whole time.
First, some relevant technical info re: USB-C standards vs QC3.0 charging.
QC3.0 is by definition not compliant with USB-C standards, because variable voltage is not allowed by the USB-C specification. So Nexus USB-C’s charging, which is adherent to USB-C spec, is not the same as Qualcomm QC3.0. You may have heard of Benson Leung, the Google engineer, who has set out to test USB-C devices and accessories. He does not endorse the G5 or the HTC 10 because they do not completely adhere to USB-C spec, but rather Qualcomm’s QC3.0.
Just because the cables are not USB-C spec does not mean that they are unsafe. To me, it really just means that USB-C spec devices may not be able to properly draw current from a power source when using a non-spec USB-C cable, which could damage the power source. Not exactly relevant to Qualcomm’s QC3.0. In fact, Qualcomm put out a statement to qualify this: http://www.androidcentral.com/qualcomm-addresses-usb-type-c-and-quick-charge-30-compatibility
The USB-C specs become a bit relevant when talking about USB-A to USB-C cables and adapters. Due to the circuitry required to make these spec, these cables and adapters are limited to 5V @ 2.4 A when used by USB-C spec devices. All the ones that Amazon sells now are USB-C standard compliant.
Based on my testing, however, this limitation does NOT extend to QC devices. We definitely get > 5V on my voltmeter testing. This was using both the LG-supplied USB-A to USB-C cable, as well as a Benson-approved USB-A to USB-C cable. The amperage measured with the USB volt/ammeter does not typically go >2.5A however. This may be more a reflection of the wattage rating of the chargers. They top out at 18W, and wattage = voltage * amperage. The top amperage their stats spout is 3A.
With the supplied LG fast charger (QC2.0-esque), it will hang out at 9V the entire time with the amperage starting out around 2A and then dropping as the battery fills.
I had stated previously in many places that the amperage tops out around ~3A early in the charging process, which is from data collected via the app Battery Monitor Widget (BMW). This is incorrect, due to the way the Android OS reports amperage. I have been informed that the Android OS amp data is based on 5V charging, so anything different from that (as we would see on QC2 and QC3) can result in erroneously high amperage readings.
I do not know if the LG supplied cord is spec because I do not have the equipment needed to test it (basically just a Nexus and the CheckR app). But I will be incorporating it into our test data to show you how it compares.
Here's a snapshot of the relevant stats printed on the adapters, with the Tronsmart on the left and the ChoeTech on the right:
One notable difference is that on the Tronsmart, the voltages are printed as variable, which is one of the major improvements to QC3.0. Interestingly, on the ChoeTech there is no mention of variable voltage. In my testing it does vary the voltage similarly, but my personal opinion is they are missing out by not advertising this on the label.
Other notable pros/cons:
1. The ChoeTech has a reversible USB-A port, so it doesn't matter which end is up. That's nice. It also comes with a USB-A to USB-C cord, though only 3 feet long.
2. The ChoeTech cable supplied is the same USB-A to C cable which has been reviewed and approved as USB-C spec by Benson Leung here: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3URN3...sb-20&linkId=9f4d7368af5d896b0482e4f62db75d06
ChoeTech support has confirmed this personally.
3. The TronSmart comes with a longer cord, but unfortunately it’s USB-A to micro-USB. It’s too bad it’s micro-USB, because I’m not aware of any QC3 phones that use microUSB. So you’ll need an adapter or a different cord.
First up, the ChoeTech.
@stuart0001 has posted an earlier review of the ChoeTech UK version, seen here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-g5/accessories/choetech-qc-3-0-18w-wall-charger-t3356038. Interestingly, he found that the charge rates were exactly the same as his LG fast charger if the screen was off. There were some situations were QC3 charging was much better with the screen on at high temperatures.
For the first ChoeTech test run, I used the LG-supplied cable.
Top off amperage was applied for an additional 30-40 minutes after hitting 100%.
I repeated this with the ChoeTech Benson approved cable and found identical results.
Onto the Tronsmart. I used the G5 supplied LG cable first.
Repeating the cycle with the ChoeTech Benson approved cable gave nearly identical data.
Comparing side by side by side the QC2.0 data with the QC3.0 data:
So very intriguing. Just like with @stuart0001 's analysis, the charging times did not differ much at all from QC2.0 charging!
But there’s more to this than just the charging times. Using my voltmeter, the voltage for each charger is a bit different. Using the LG fast adapter, the voltage hangs around 9V for the entire duration with the amperage slowing decreasing.
Using QC3.0, voltage ranged between 6.3 - 8.3V, with amperage maxing at 2.7A.
(Note the nonstandard charging time data points. The voltmeter does not have any logging capability, so I physically had to check on it throughout the hour+. Sometimes I had things to do )
QC3.0 advertises 80% fill in 35 minutes for QC3.0, compared with 65% for QC2.0. We don’t really see this though. Possible reasons?
1. The phone has preset charging parameters that won’t let us go that fast. A Tronsmart support person has told me that the G5 likes 6V as its optimal charging level. We do see this on the voltmeter results much of the charging cycle. I believe this is set in the kernel programming.
2. The 18W rating on the chargers tested won’t allow for greater amperage or voltage. There are 24W chargers out there.
3. The USB-A port on the chargers have some limit? Would love to test a USB-C port QC3.0 charger (I think there’s only one on Amazon right now).
4. There is some sort of charging limitation in the USB-A to USB-C cable after all.
More ideas to think about.
EDIT:
Attempts to monitor charging voltage/amperage of the USB-A to micro-USB with USB-C adapter result in repeat disconnects and reconnects.
I think the amperage and voltages are too high for the connected USB meter to measure and pass through.
EDIT 2:
I purchased a more reputable USB meter and it works now. The cheap one would throw a fit and reset/cut off charging when the voltage or amperage hit its upper limits. I may re-test some of the voltage measurements in the future.
@waylo Thanks for that excellent write up.
Picking up on the Qualcomm advertised estimate. It's disingenuous at best (I'd say they're being fraudulent) . They state in small print that it's based on the 0-50% current, so how they can justify extrapolating that instead of using the actual time is beyond me.
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge
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Haha, that is very very sneaky of them. Seriously, why don't just extrapolate the first 20 minutes (40% then) and say it'll be full in 45 minutes then?
Getting some weird results on the USB meter trying to measure QC3.0 through USB-A to USB-micro cable with a USB-C adapter on it. Do you have one to try with your voltmeter?
waylo said:
Haha, that is very very sneaky of them. Seriously, why don't just extrapolate the first 20 minutes (40% then) and say it'll be full in 45 minutes then?
Getting some weird results on the USB meter trying to measure QC3.0 through USB-A to USB-micro cable with a USB-C adapter on it. Do you have one to try with your voltmeter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I have. I can have a look later. Something else I've noticed occasionally, but need to try & repeat, is that even different USB-A to C cables are giving quite wildly different voltages on the same charger.
Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
waylo said:
With the supplied LG fast charger (QC2.0-esque), it will hang out at 9V the entire time with the amperage starting out around 2A and then dropping as the battery fills.
Now, I have stated in many places that the amperage tops out around ~3A early in the charging process, which is from data collected via the app Battery Monitor Widget (BMW). So there is a bit of a discrepancy here. I have been a big advocate for BMW over other apps, due mostly to its passive logging. The dev of BMW has emailed me saying the mA is provided by the Android OS using a current sensor. So as of now, I don’t have a good explanation for how I routinely get ~3A charging amperage logs for the first 20 minutes while my ammeter does not show that draw. Could be a cheap (certainly) and inaccurate (don’t know) ammeter for all I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Am more likely to trust those cheap meters because they have proven to be invaluable in diagnosing charging problems with older devices. Software based tools proved to be not very useful with fault finding.
So getting 3A in software and the meter reading 2A implies an error of 50% with the meter. That is way too high an error. Don't believe it.
It's good to have both as a check but i'd side with the meter. It isn't faulty.
---------- Post added at 08:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 AM ----------
stuart0001 said:
@waylo Thanks for that excellent write up.
Picking up on the Qualcomm advertised estimate. It's disingenuous at best (I'd say they're being fraudulent) . They state in small print that it's based on the 0-50% current, so how they can justify extrapolating that instead of using the actual time is beyond me.
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge
Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usual BS claims in the tech industry...once people start poking around the real picture emerges.
One Twelve said:
Am more likely to trust those cheap meters because they have proven to be invaluable in diagnosing charging problems with older devices. Software based tools proved to be not very useful with fault finding.
So getting 3A in software and the meter reading 2A implies an error of 50% with the meter. That is way too high an error. Don't believe it.
It's good to have both as a check but i'd side with the meter. It isn't faulty.
---------- Post added at 08:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 AM ----------
Usual BS claims in the tech industry...once people start poking around the real picture emerges.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a trick one. However the reported values in apps seem in step with the % gain and battery capacity. ie it's 2800mAh capacity so at 3A you'd expect 50% charge in 28 minutes which is what you get.
Also, the meter reports output but won't account for usage drain & won't give the net +ve charge current the battery is actually receiving.
It comes down to the correct measure for capacity should be watt hours. I suspect the software reports must be using a fixed internal volt number & applying that to the received watts to give a mA figure.
Ultimately, if we think of the mA software #s as really a relative guidance simply on how fast it'll fill 2800, it's as good as any real life measure
http://www.goalzero.com/solarlife/2...-question-of-battery-capacity-in-electronics/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYx6GW-HaVg
4:30 onwards.
Says he got from 5% to 91% within an hour with the stock charger..
That would be faster than QC2.
One Twelve said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYx6GW-HaVg
4:30 onwards.
Says he got from 5% to 91% within an hour with the stock charger..
That would be faster than QC2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's bull**** I reckon
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stuart0001 said:
That's bull**** I reckon
Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the last page.
At 90 within the hour.
2. Does the LG charger work as fast as a certified QC2 charger?
Yes, pretty much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
From the last page.
At 90 within the hour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected. ?
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So is there any need to get additional chargers and cables ? What compelling arguments can be made to support that.
why not just use what came in the box
I don't believe LG would intentionally supply a charger & cable that could be harmful to the G5 despite what Benson Leung says.
Regarding the current discrepancies.
I put my phone in aeroplane mode & killed all running apps room minimise background draw.
If I multiply the Amps by Volts of both meter & 3C app (mV/1000) to get Watts, I'm generally getting a fairly consistent 15% higher on the meter. This is likely due to adapter compensating for efficiency loss of the cable & some draw used by background apps.
So both methods appear to be accurate in their own way.
I'd say the meter is good to assess it's maximum wattage & the voltage range but if you want to know how quick it charges the phone, software is best.
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---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------
One Twelve said:
So is there any need to get additional chargers and cables ? What compelling arguments can be made to support that.
why not just use what came in the box
I don't believe LG would intentionally supply a charger & cable that could be harmful to the G5 despite what Benson Leung says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you use the phone a lot whilst charging, above 32c with screen on, QC 3.0 is significantly faster. In fact I've seen QC 2.0 not even be able to supply enough for a net positive current.
For me, after seeing the results, in car at least is a must for QC 3.0.
Screen off they are near identical.
The voltage granularity of QC 3.0 may mean slightly prolonged battery longevity but no really an issue when we can swap batteries anyway.
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stuart0001 said:
[MENTION=2562936]https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says its a 1.5C charge. But only upto 50%.
Compare with this graph from here.
if you can charge the battery completely in 1 hour its a 1C charge.
But the table above indicated it took 80 minutes to completely charge. Implying its less than 1C charge for the total.
Then there is the discharge bit. Can anyone kill their battery in 1 hour ? that's a 1C discharge.
I don't know anybody that can do that. The fastest i've seen is dead in 1h30 with 4k video. 1% an hour. Still not a 1C discharge.
Am beginning to think fast charge, quick charge some other speedy charge per se ain't doing anything bad for the battery
What is more likely to do it is operating temperature.
All batteries achieve optimum service life if used at 20°C (68°F) or slightly below. If, for example, a battery operates at 30°C (86°F) instead of a more moderate lower room temperature, the cycle life is reduced by 20 percent. At 40°C (104°F), the loss jumps to a whopping 40 percent, and if charged and discharged at 45°C (113°F), the cycle life is only half of what can be expected if used at 20°C (68°F).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
stuart0001 said:
If you use the phone a lot whilst charging, above 32c with screen on, QC 3.0 is significantly faster. In fact I've seen QC 2.0 not even be able to supply enough for a net positive current.
For me, after seeing the results, in car at least is a must for QC 3.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
Says its a 1.5C charge. But only upto 50%.
Compare with this graph from here.
if you can charge the battery completely in 1 hour its a 1C charge.
But the table above indicated it took 80 minutes to completely charge. Implying its less than 1C charge for the total.
Then there is the discharge bit. Can anyone kill their battery in 1 hour ? that's a 1C discharge.
I don't know anybody that can do that. The fastest i've seen is dead in 1h30 with 4k video. 1% an hour. Still not a 1C discharge.
Am beginning to think fast charge, quick charge some other speedy charge per se ain't doing anything bad for the battery
What is more likely to do it is operating temperature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right. For me, because I can replace the battery, being able to charge quickly in the car is more important than longevity.
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Hello, guys, I need your help because I believe in the community of our forum.
I am wondering about the Dash charging.
1) Is it bad if I use the Dash all the time (every day)?
2) If I use a third party charger, in my case Anker charger (no quick charge), will this affect the system or the internals somehow?
A friend of mine is using 1+3T and he does not like to change his device often but per two years once. And that's why he is using a regular charger without any fast-charging capabilities for a mainly charging solutions. And he uses the Dash Charger really rarely (like once a week), only when he is short on time and needs battery.
I, personally, think that there is good logic in his method of charging his device, but this is only my opinion, I am not acknowledged and that's why I want your help.
What do you think about question 1) and 2) and also about my friend's method of charging.
If I think of another question I will post it later as a comment. Waiting on your replies, mates.
1. It is not. Dash charging keeps all the heat on the brick of the adapter. Your phone is safe.
2. No, it won't affect internals.
OnePlus has put the charging control electronics into the charger, keeping a lot of the heat away from the phone. But as far as my limited understanding of battery chemistry goes, it's not just the heat that ages battery cells, but the higher voltage used to charge them.
While it is impressive to see the phone charging with the Dash charger, it certainly won't help extend the life of the battery. Dash charge can push the limits of charging speed by moving heat away from the battery, preventing the phone from outright overheating, but the battery's chemistry is still put under greater strain from the higher charging current.
Even if it's only the heat that ages a battery, and the charging speed itself makes no difference at all - does the phone actually stay cooler when using Dash charge than when using a regular 5V charger?
Unfortunately OnePlus' marketing materials suggest that you should only charge your OnePlus 5 with the Dash charger, but they're just that - marketing materials. What would you have them say? "Don't use Dash charge too often since it's actually really bad for your battery" isn't exactly confidence inspiring.
The electronics for charging via regular USB, or via USB-C Power Delivery, are all there. Compared to always pushing the battery as close to its limits as possible, I cannot see the slower charging modes being worse for your battery life.
I use the Dash charger only when I have very limited time to charge my phone. When I regularly charge my phone over night, I do that as slowly as possible using a regular 5V charger. I wouldn't mind the phone taking six hours to charge overnight.
Speaking of charging, can we use quick chargers 2.0 with this phone? Does it charges quicker?
I have an Aukey quick charge 2.0.
NetSoerfer said:
I use the Dash charger only when I have very limited time to charge my phone. When I regularly charge my phone over night, I do that as slowly as possible using a regular 5V charger. I wouldn't mind the phone taking six hours to charge overnight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I follow the same approach. I charge my OnePlus 5 every night with the charger of my "old" OnePlus X.
A couple of weeks ago I charged it every second or third day, and waited always till the battery is almost empty.
After I read the information provided by this XDA thread and the additional information in this article. I decided to limit the capacity and charge it every day.
So my battery is swinging about between 30% and 80%.
When on travel or time is limited I use dash charge.
dima-82 said:
After I read the information provided by this XDA thread and the additional information in this article. I decided to limit the capacity and charge it every day.
So my battery is swinging about between 30% and 80%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is actually awesome, being able to limit charging to an arbitrary percentage. I don't have root yet, but this one is definitely bookmarked.
NetSoerfer said:
This is actually awesome, being able to limit charging to an arbitrary percentage. I don't have root yet, but this one is definitely bookmarked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As soon as the battery reaches 80% the BatteryChargeLimit Service stops charging and starts it again if the battery falls beyond 77% (The values are adjustable).
While charging (connected to charger) and waiting (connected / disconnected) till the lower threshold is reached a notification with the current voltage and battery temperature is shown.
We can cheat the electronic and move the charging logic to the charger, but we still have the physical and chemical constraints of batteries. So I thing this is a acceptable way to keep the battery as long as possible in a good condition.
NetSoerfer said:
OnePlus has put the charging control electronics into the charger, keeping a lot of the heat away from the phone. But as far as my limited understanding of battery chemistry goes, it's not just the heat that ages battery cells, but the higher voltage used to charge them.
While it is impressive to see the phone charging with the Dash charger, it certainly won't help extend the life of the battery. Dash charge can push the limits of charging speed by moving heat away from the battery, preventing the phone from outright overheating, but the battery's chemistry is still put under greater strain from the higher charging current.
Even if it's only the heat that ages a battery, and the charging speed itself makes no difference at all - does the phone actually stay cooler when using Dash charge than when using a regular 5V charger?
Unfortunately OnePlus' marketing materials suggest that you should only charge your OnePlus 5 with the Dash charger, but they're just that - marketing materials. What would you have them say? "Don't use Dash charge too often since it's actually really bad for your battery" isn't exactly confidence inspiring.
The electronics for charging via regular USB, or via USB-C Power Delivery, are all there. Compared to always pushing the battery as close to its limits as possible, I cannot see the slower charging modes being worse for your battery life.
I use the Dash charger only when I have very limited time to charge my phone. When I regularly charge my phone over night, I do that as slowly as possible using a regular 5V charger. I wouldn't mind the phone taking six hours to charge overnight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why dash charging only matters from zero to 60%. After 60% it reduces the speed of the charge at 75% then again then again at 85% and again at 95%. It's not all about the heat but one the battery is at a certain level, you can't charge at the high speeds as that causes instability in the chemical reaction. Even QC quick charge slows down as well.
gonsa said:
Speaking of charging, can we use quick chargers 2.0 with this phone? Does it charges quicker?
I have an Aukey quick charge 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use any charger that supports 5v output. a qc 2.0 or 3.0 charger in this case acts like a regular charger.
the difference between quickcharge and dashcharge is that a qc increases the power through a higher voltage with lower current whereas a dc uses lower voltage with higher current.
1) Using the dash charger every time will not harm the battery or reduce its lifespan in a notable way. First of all, you only get dash charging speeds until the battery reaches 60% once there the charger reduces the output and yet again at 75% and 85% of battery capacity. This is to prevent over voltage of the battery cells which is one of the two main factors in reducing battery capacity and lifespan. The other factor that hinders battery capacity and lifespan is temperature, however, dash chargers use a nifty trick to reduce battery temperature when charging, the adapter converts the power to the battery's voltage instead of leaving the power conversion to the phone itself, this helps the phone stay cooler when charging which helps with the battery lifespan.
The one thing that you shouldn't do is keep the phone plugged in after fully charging the phone or leaving the phone charging overnight. Having the battery at 100% capacity for too long will keep it at a very high charge voltage which will reduce the amount of charge cycles of the battery. The best range to keep a Li-ion battery for a long lifespan is between 60% and 95% capacity.
2) You can use any type of charger on the 1+5 as long as it's a 5V charger. However, you won't get the charging speeds dash charger offers and since those chargers don't handle the power conversion, your phone will have to which means it might heat up a little bit more than with the dash charger.
1) ofc not.
2) no.
Will i believe the sweetest thing in this phone is about the fast charging time (Dash)
like i have my OP3 for a year now and i only use the Dash charger with it
even tho the battery still good for me
Cmon !, YES it will.
This is not a magic box people, Lithium Polymer batteries will react just like other lithium based batteries : in fonction of temperature, number of time of polarity change, load usage, and time.
This is a chemical reaction, you'll have oxydation: speed and quty in fct of previous factors. you can find a ton of info about this online, or in school.
So far a good battery that can take huge charges are Li-Fe, but the capacity is lower.
Those mobile phones batteries are good, but you will decrease their life under 20 W (5v @4A) load charge for sure !
This as been said, I know that op5 will regulate, but at the highest power that the battery can take, wich is always too high to make your phone last long with the maximum capacity you can get with a good maintenance.
I'll recommend more like 2.1, or personnaly, 1.2 A charger. Do not go lower, you'll have other issue, like crystallization.
I can explan in more scientific method, since I worked on electric race cars, but this site will explain the essentials.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Is this a big noticable difference in your everyday usage ?? No, I don't think so. You'll see the difference in 5-6 years, when the phone will be slow and the cpu will max out, and you'll do 6 hours on a 1200 mAh battery capacity since the maintenance was bad.
A couple of days ago I installed Charge Monitor (thx @waterdaan) and monitored the charging curve with different chargers on my OnePlus 5.
Here the results:
OnePlus Dash Charger, 36% - 97% in 56 minutes:
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Charger from OnePlus X (standard 5V/2A USB charger), 33% - 93% in 79 minutes:
This confirms, what in this thread was already mentioned by some users. Dash Charger reduces the current at certain capacity levels.
So I think we are good to go with the dash charger and shouldn't worry that it harms our batteries.
Additionally I checked other battery apps and found Battery Warner by @P1xelfehler which can also be found on the PlayStore. This app tries to combine the capabilities of Charge Monitor and Battery Charge Limit but is less powerful as the other two.
My conclusion is: I will use the Dash Charger and Battery Charge Limit to keep the capacity between 30% and 80% for the normal daily use.
To monitor the charging process one of the above mentioned apps above is a must have. Almost all apps on the market, which promise you to extend battery life (Battery Doctors, Battery Savers, Battery Boosters, you name it...) have no effect at all and may even damage your battery.
If my assumptions are wrong, please correct me
dima-82 said:
If my assumptions are wrong, please correct me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the dash charger cause as for me the current looks more stable than while charging with other chargers as shown in your example.
Btw I'm using Charge monitor as well, very good app
oVeRdOsE. said:
I'll recommend more like 2.1, or personnaly, 1.2 A charger. Do not go lower, you'll have other issue, like crystallization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then, do you recommend to use a 1.2A charger through the night?
To power up, you consume Red Bull. But your phone just needs its adaptive fast charger. Rate this thread to express how quickly the Google Pixel 3 can charge. A higher rating indicates that it charges extremely fast.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
The Pixel and Pixel 2 used to charge "fine" through a PC port. The pixel 3 charges extremely slowly. For example my Pixel 2 would be at 50% battery and using the USB port on my car it would be close to 90% when I got home. Under the same situation, the Pixel 3 would only be at 55%. Same problem using the PC port. I know I know it's NOT supposed to be fast charge but I am only stating the facts and differences. Stock charger charges fine.
Pixel 3 charges very slowly on my existing 2.4A (per port) multi usb charger. Clearly it's not a PD charger, but it always provided enough juice for my nexus 5x to charge quickly. Clearly the pixel 3 doesn't like it.
Can confirm this also. Ampere indicates that it pulls less than 200mA on any non-USB type C charger. This is different from my previous Pixel 2.
With Samsung fast wireless charger, s9 goes from 20%to 100 in less than 2 h, pixel 3 charged only 25% in 2 h....... Charging speed is awfull if you don't use Google chargers
nondoB said:
Can confirm this also. Ampere indicates that it pulls less than 200mA on any non-USB type C charger. This is different from my previous Pixel 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something is not right there. I see around 1000 mA with an old 1.0A charger and around 1300 mA with various 2.4A ones. Even with 'slow' wireless I see 500-600 mA
Sent from my Pixel 3 using XDA Labs
With Nov security update. No improvements. It charges fine with pd charger but insanely slow with any other.
My Pixel 3 charges plenty fast for me. Although, I typically use my Dell Latitude 20v (45W) PD charger.
piccit said:
Something is not right there. I see around 1000 mA with an old 1.0A charger and around 1300 mA with various 2.4A ones. Even with 'slow' wireless I see 500-600 mA
Sent from my Pixel 3 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an expert at this stuff and certainly might be missing something but charging at 1000mA from a 1A charger should be physically impossible. Wouldn't that be 100% efficiency?
Yup.. Charging is too slow.. Infact, the charging time estimated (which is shown on the lock screen when the phone is being charged) is also wrong.. May be it gets adjusted over time...
tranquill1800 said:
Yup.. Charging is too slow.. Infact, the charging time estimated (which is shown on the lock screen when the phone is being charged) is also wrong.. May be it gets adjusted over time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The estimate is adjusted over time. To my knowledge, all fast charge technologies are able to charge much quicker when the battery is low, but then slow the charge down as the battery approaches a fully charged state/heats up. The estimate would simply be a guess, since they likely are, app status, ambient temperature and battery condition dependent.
This can be seen in the graph on xda's quick charging comparison. Note that all the technologies start out quite fast but eventually taper off. Also note that USB-PD is the slowest (most conservative) of the technologies after the battery gets to about %40 charge.
https://www.xda-developers.com/charging-comparison-oneplus-huawei/
I would add that my new pixel 3 does appear to charge a little slower than some of my previous devices, however I've got several devices that use USB-PD so the versatility of USB-PD and ability to use one charger across my devices more than makes up for the extra 30 minutes or so of cellphone charge time. Guess everyone's expectations are different.
"Fast charging" on the Pixel is via Power Delivery. This is only possible over USB-C; PD can negotiate higher charging rates by increasing the voltage. This is not possible with PC type A ports; type A is rated for 5v, 3a max.
Qualcomm Quick Charge does adjust voltage and uses type A ports, but it uses the data pins for rate negotiation, while PD uses pins unique to USB-C.
jimv1983 said:
I'm not an expert at this stuff and certainly might be missing something but charging at 1000mA from a 1A charger should be physically impossible. Wouldn't that be 100% efficiency?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The charger is able to deliver 1000mA, but the total power delivered to the device will be less than it draws from the mains supply (the difference wasted as heat).
Powergreb said:
The Pixel and Pixel 2 used to charge "fine" through a PC port. The pixel 3 charges extremely slowly. For example my Pixel 2 would be at 50% battery and using the USB port on my car it would be close to 90% when I got home. Under the same situation, the Pixel 3 would only be at 55%. Same problem using the PC port. I know I know it's NOT supposed to be fast charge but I am only stating the facts and differences. Stock charger charges fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Google has really messed up the charging speed. Pixel2 used to be fine with usb ports. Pixel3 charges faster only with stock charger with which it came.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
David Horn said:
No. The charger is able to deliver 1000mA, but the total power delivered to the device will be less than it draws from the mains supply (the difference wasted as heat).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's what I thought but the comment I replied to said it was charging at 1A from a 1A charger. I would expect maybe 800mA from a 1A charger.
jimv1983 said:
Yeah, that's what I thought but the comment I replied to said it was charging at 1A from a 1A charger. I would expect maybe 800mA from a 1A charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah idk if I just mixed up my numbers (I had been testing multiple charges) or what. Tried again and it averaged more around 600
Sent from my Google Pixel 3 using XDA Labs
The phone doesn't like to charge fast if the battery tempeturature is "high" (higher than 35 ºC). It's just a very agressive charge trhottle. Try charging again but in a colder weather or room.
It was my experience.
The charger that comes with the phone is not fast charger?
Got my phone yesterday and when I charged it, it said it's slow charging....
Edit
Second charge was fast charge according to info on screen.
After Dec update, the PC port charging is normal, not rad, not slow but normal. Problem fixed.
Wireless charging speed
Powergreb said:
After Dec update, the PC port charging is normal, not rad, not slow but normal. Problem fixed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I felt similar way until today. But today at around 20% battery I put my Pixel 3 at Pixel Stand and have got that:
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"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
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"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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}
I already posted regarding strange behavior of wireless charging: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78315849&postcount=73:
Before I've got original Pixel Stand, I used generic wireless charger. No surprises, it chargers P3 slowly. But there is more. Sometimes it doesn't charge P3 at all. Way more strange, that almost the same behavior I have with Pixel Stand. After some days I began to suspect there is a regularity - the charge at full speed works with at least 85% of charge at phone. If the charge is lower, the possibility the charge would be at rapid speed is pretty low. It can claim it charges rapidly, but in fact it doesn't charge at all, since the charge is going down at the same rate as phone out of any charging. I definitely have relatively small statistics and can not say for sure that 85% is a "red line" for triggering wireless charge start (regardless of speed in my case). Today even at 91% phone battery wireless charging at Pixel Stand didn't start at all (with "charging rapidly" announcement at screen and slowly discharging phone). Other functions of Stand work pretty good regardless of what's going on with charging. I didn't contact Google Customer Service since the results are unstable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case of regular charging through the USB-C cable from native Pixel charger I've never had any problems. But wireless charging even with original Pixel Stand doesn't look good. At the generic charger even after Dec update charging goes south - not charging at all or with original Google wireless charger just like at screenshot - rapid charging in day and a half. It's better, than no charge, but for $79.99 for original Pixel Stand it has to be faster.