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Dash Charging all the time? - OnePlus 5 Questions & Answers

Hello, guys, I need your help because I believe in the community of our forum.
I am wondering about the Dash charging.
1) Is it bad if I use the Dash all the time (every day)?
2) If I use a third party charger, in my case Anker charger (no quick charge), will this affect the system or the internals somehow?
A friend of mine is using 1+3T and he does not like to change his device often but per two years once. And that's why he is using a regular charger without any fast-charging capabilities for a mainly charging solutions. And he uses the Dash Charger really rarely (like once a week), only when he is short on time and needs battery.
I, personally, think that there is good logic in his method of charging his device, but this is only my opinion, I am not acknowledged and that's why I want your help.
What do you think about question 1) and 2) and also about my friend's method of charging.
If I think of another question I will post it later as a comment. Waiting on your replies, mates.

1. It is not. Dash charging keeps all the heat on the brick of the adapter. Your phone is safe.
2. No, it won't affect internals.

OnePlus has put the charging control electronics into the charger, keeping a lot of the heat away from the phone. But as far as my limited understanding of battery chemistry goes, it's not just the heat that ages battery cells, but the higher voltage used to charge them.
While it is impressive to see the phone charging with the Dash charger, it certainly won't help extend the life of the battery. Dash charge can push the limits of charging speed by moving heat away from the battery, preventing the phone from outright overheating, but the battery's chemistry is still put under greater strain from the higher charging current.
Even if it's only the heat that ages a battery, and the charging speed itself makes no difference at all - does the phone actually stay cooler when using Dash charge than when using a regular 5V charger?
Unfortunately OnePlus' marketing materials suggest that you should only charge your OnePlus 5 with the Dash charger, but they're just that - marketing materials. What would you have them say? "Don't use Dash charge too often since it's actually really bad for your battery" isn't exactly confidence inspiring.
The electronics for charging via regular USB, or via USB-C Power Delivery, are all there. Compared to always pushing the battery as close to its limits as possible, I cannot see the slower charging modes being worse for your battery life.
I use the Dash charger only when I have very limited time to charge my phone. When I regularly charge my phone over night, I do that as slowly as possible using a regular 5V charger. I wouldn't mind the phone taking six hours to charge overnight.

Speaking of charging, can we use quick chargers 2.0 with this phone? Does it charges quicker?
I have an Aukey quick charge 2.0.

NetSoerfer said:
I use the Dash charger only when I have very limited time to charge my phone. When I regularly charge my phone over night, I do that as slowly as possible using a regular 5V charger. I wouldn't mind the phone taking six hours to charge overnight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I follow the same approach. I charge my OnePlus 5 every night with the charger of my "old" OnePlus X.
A couple of weeks ago I charged it every second or third day, and waited always till the battery is almost empty.
After I read the information provided by this XDA thread and the additional information in this article. I decided to limit the capacity and charge it every day.
So my battery is swinging about between 30% and 80%.
When on travel or time is limited I use dash charge.

dima-82 said:
After I read the information provided by this XDA thread and the additional information in this article. I decided to limit the capacity and charge it every day.
So my battery is swinging about between 30% and 80%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is actually awesome, being able to limit charging to an arbitrary percentage. I don't have root yet, but this one is definitely bookmarked.

NetSoerfer said:
This is actually awesome, being able to limit charging to an arbitrary percentage. I don't have root yet, but this one is definitely bookmarked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As soon as the battery reaches 80% the BatteryChargeLimit Service stops charging and starts it again if the battery falls beyond 77% (The values are adjustable).
While charging (connected to charger) and waiting (connected / disconnected) till the lower threshold is reached a notification with the current voltage and battery temperature is shown.
We can cheat the electronic and move the charging logic to the charger, but we still have the physical and chemical constraints of batteries. So I thing this is a acceptable way to keep the battery as long as possible in a good condition.

NetSoerfer said:
OnePlus has put the charging control electronics into the charger, keeping a lot of the heat away from the phone. But as far as my limited understanding of battery chemistry goes, it's not just the heat that ages battery cells, but the higher voltage used to charge them.
While it is impressive to see the phone charging with the Dash charger, it certainly won't help extend the life of the battery. Dash charge can push the limits of charging speed by moving heat away from the battery, preventing the phone from outright overheating, but the battery's chemistry is still put under greater strain from the higher charging current.
Even if it's only the heat that ages a battery, and the charging speed itself makes no difference at all - does the phone actually stay cooler when using Dash charge than when using a regular 5V charger?
Unfortunately OnePlus' marketing materials suggest that you should only charge your OnePlus 5 with the Dash charger, but they're just that - marketing materials. What would you have them say? "Don't use Dash charge too often since it's actually really bad for your battery" isn't exactly confidence inspiring.
The electronics for charging via regular USB, or via USB-C Power Delivery, are all there. Compared to always pushing the battery as close to its limits as possible, I cannot see the slower charging modes being worse for your battery life.
I use the Dash charger only when I have very limited time to charge my phone. When I regularly charge my phone over night, I do that as slowly as possible using a regular 5V charger. I wouldn't mind the phone taking six hours to charge overnight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why dash charging only matters from zero to 60%. After 60% it reduces the speed of the charge at 75% then again then again at 85% and again at 95%. It's not all about the heat but one the battery is at a certain level, you can't charge at the high speeds as that causes instability in the chemical reaction. Even QC quick charge slows down as well.

gonsa said:
Speaking of charging, can we use quick chargers 2.0 with this phone? Does it charges quicker?
I have an Aukey quick charge 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use any charger that supports 5v output. a qc 2.0 or 3.0 charger in this case acts like a regular charger.
the difference between quickcharge and dashcharge is that a qc increases the power through a higher voltage with lower current whereas a dc uses lower voltage with higher current.

1) Using the dash charger every time will not harm the battery or reduce its lifespan in a notable way. First of all, you only get dash charging speeds until the battery reaches 60% once there the charger reduces the output and yet again at 75% and 85% of battery capacity. This is to prevent over voltage of the battery cells which is one of the two main factors in reducing battery capacity and lifespan. The other factor that hinders battery capacity and lifespan is temperature, however, dash chargers use a nifty trick to reduce battery temperature when charging, the adapter converts the power to the battery's voltage instead of leaving the power conversion to the phone itself, this helps the phone stay cooler when charging which helps with the battery lifespan.
The one thing that you shouldn't do is keep the phone plugged in after fully charging the phone or leaving the phone charging overnight. Having the battery at 100% capacity for too long will keep it at a very high charge voltage which will reduce the amount of charge cycles of the battery. The best range to keep a Li-ion battery for a long lifespan is between 60% and 95% capacity.
2) You can use any type of charger on the 1+5 as long as it's a 5V charger. However, you won't get the charging speeds dash charger offers and since those chargers don't handle the power conversion, your phone will have to which means it might heat up a little bit more than with the dash charger.

1) ofc not.
2) no.
Will i believe the sweetest thing in this phone is about the fast charging time (Dash)
like i have my OP3 for a year now and i only use the Dash charger with it
even tho the battery still good for me

Cmon !, YES it will.
This is not a magic box people, Lithium Polymer batteries will react just like other lithium based batteries : in fonction of temperature, number of time of polarity change, load usage, and time.
This is a chemical reaction, you'll have oxydation: speed and quty in fct of previous factors. you can find a ton of info about this online, or in school.
So far a good battery that can take huge charges are Li-Fe, but the capacity is lower.
Those mobile phones batteries are good, but you will decrease their life under 20 W (5v @4A) load charge for sure !
This as been said, I know that op5 will regulate, but at the highest power that the battery can take, wich is always too high to make your phone last long with the maximum capacity you can get with a good maintenance.
I'll recommend more like 2.1, or personnaly, 1.2 A charger. Do not go lower, you'll have other issue, like crystallization.
I can explan in more scientific method, since I worked on electric race cars, but this site will explain the essentials.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Is this a big noticable difference in your everyday usage ?? No, I don't think so. You'll see the difference in 5-6 years, when the phone will be slow and the cpu will max out, and you'll do 6 hours on a 1200 mAh battery capacity since the maintenance was bad.

A couple of days ago I installed Charge Monitor (thx @waterdaan) and monitored the charging curve with different chargers on my OnePlus 5.
Here the results:
OnePlus Dash Charger, 36% - 97% in 56 minutes:
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Charger from OnePlus X (standard 5V/2A USB charger), 33% - 93% in 79 minutes:
This confirms, what in this thread was already mentioned by some users. Dash Charger reduces the current at certain capacity levels.
So I think we are good to go with the dash charger and shouldn't worry that it harms our batteries.
Additionally I checked other battery apps and found Battery Warner by @P1xelfehler which can also be found on the PlayStore. This app tries to combine the capabilities of Charge Monitor and Battery Charge Limit but is less powerful as the other two.
My conclusion is: I will use the Dash Charger and Battery Charge Limit to keep the capacity between 30% and 80% for the normal daily use.
To monitor the charging process one of the above mentioned apps above is a must have. Almost all apps on the market, which promise you to extend battery life (Battery Doctors, Battery Savers, Battery Boosters, you name it...) have no effect at all and may even damage your battery.
If my assumptions are wrong, please correct me

dima-82 said:
If my assumptions are wrong, please correct me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the dash charger cause as for me the current looks more stable than while charging with other chargers as shown in your example.
Btw I'm using Charge monitor as well, very good app

oVeRdOsE. said:
I'll recommend more like 2.1, or personnaly, 1.2 A charger. Do not go lower, you'll have other issue, like crystallization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then, do you recommend to use a 1.2A charger through the night?

Related

Ok, so my battery can go from 100% full charge (overnight) to like 96% within first couple of minutes. I've done the plug/pull trick and it seems to help for a very short while and it will go back to same issue again and again.
Recently, I just bought the $10 2 batteries with external charger pack and had the extra el cheapo battery all charged up using the external charger. To my surprise, I found that the battery charged with external charger drain very accurately.
I've done some testing for a couple of days now by basically draining out the battery and replace it with a fresh one from the external charger without using the wall adapter.
So my thinking is when charging with wall charger, I think the phone does not evenly charges the battery cells because there are so many moving parts while the phone is on and charging. Therefore, it causes the cell to be charged unevenly that leads to quick battery drain.
With the external charged battery, I went from 100% to 90% in 6 hours time with light usage and GPS on.
Give it a try to see if you get different experience with your battery.

I have been doing the same these past couple of weeks (ever since I rooted my 2.2).
My external charger will be here today (it's now saturday morning cst) and I ordered it yesterday. Gotta love amazon one day shipping.
So far I have observed some very interesting charging habits the evo displays when charging with it's included wall charger and stock and extended batteries.

i went 3 days 12 hours and 46 minutes on a single charge, that is with using the stock battery and a regular wall charger, yes i'm rooted and i used setcpu to set my frequency to 614 when screen on, and 245 when screen off, at night when i go to sleep i put the phone into airplane mode, and overall usage was cut back to light to moderate usage, i was trying to see how long i could actually go on the stock battery, and i must admit i'm very impressed.
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I think the general concensus was that the phone doesn't trickle charge. It will hit full then stop charging to a point then will charge again, all while saying 100%
I charged to full then while plugged in it range gps and iheartradio for 20 minutes, unplugged and it dropped to 92 within 5 minutes

Same here. I'll unplug it, browse the web while eating breakfast (about 10/15 minutes) and today I dropped to 89%. But its been two hours since then with some light texting and more browsing im now at 80%.

pinoyxpryde said:
I think the general concensus was that the phone doesn't trickle charge. It will hit full then stop charging to a point then will charge again, all while saying 100%
I charged to full then while plugged in it range gps and iheartradio for 20 minutes, unplugged and it dropped to 92 within 5 minutes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
granted be the trickle charge is with using the stock usb connecter style wall charger right, i never use that thing unless im connected to the pc, i have a actual regular wall charger that came on another phone i used to have before my Evo, lol.

Update: Yep this morning I replaced my battery that was charged by the external charger that I bought with the bundle and same result. On average, my battery drains at the rate of 1.5% per every hour on light usage with GPS on.
I think from now on, I won't charge the phone using the default charger overnight.

vboyz103 said:
Update: Yep this morning I replaced my battery that was charged by the external charger that I bought with the bundle and same result. On average, my battery drains at the rate of 1.5% per every hour on light usage with GPS on.
I think from now on, I won't charge the phone using the default charger overnight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you take your battery out at night and charge it with an external charger?

Leaving the battery charging all night is bad for the batteries lifespan, that is why htc and many laptop companies implement this feature.
Stop complaining about it. Its only one cell and it has nothing to do with evenly charging, its regulated by the onboard charging system.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

lehalter said:
So you take your battery out at night and charge it with an external charger?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I have 2 batteries, and I used one of them throughout the day including leaving it overnight uncharged, then in morning I swap it out with the one that was fully charged from external charger.

mastermarc said:
Leaving the battery charging all night is bad for the batteries lifespan, that is why htc and many laptop companies implement this feature.
Stop complaining about it. Its only one cell and it has nothing to do with evenly charging, its regulated by the onboard charging system.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
LOL, I found this statement is bogus because if you don't leave it charged up overnight then what do you do to recharge it? Come on man! Batteries are meant to be charged up over a period of time.
I'm not saying my understanding of uneven charge distribution is rock solid, but at least I backed it up with some of my own studies.

I just always do my overnight charge with the phone OFF.
Sometimes in the morning I'll also do the unplug, re-plug, wait for green trick.
As long as I don't use 4G, my battery life is GREAT.
My 4g consumption is probably worse because I've tweaked the settings to retry more often - default was 5 minutes between retries.
I guess for people that get calls late at night or don't have a home land-line, turning it off at night is not feasable. But it does get around that immediate drop problem.

They charge at a near constant rate until they are full, after that it is BAD to continue topping them off, please do some research on lithium charging techniques as your "testing" clearly hasn't taught you much if anything about the chemistry.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

mastermarc said:
They charge at a near constant rate until they are full, after that it is BAD to continue topping them off, please do some research on lithium charging techniques as your "testing" clearly hasn't taught you much if anything about the chemistry.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The phone doesn't charge at a constant rate until it's full. It would be disastrous for LiCo chemistry if it maintained 0.66C up until it hit 100%. The cell would cook itself to death.
The correct charging profile for the Evo is that it charges constant rate till it hits like 70%, then it slows down until it finally hits 100% and then the charging cuts off. Download JuicePlotter and completely discharge and charge your phone to see this.
Hypothesis below:
The problem with the Evo is that once it hits that cut-off point, the phone never again seems to check if the battery is actually full. (LiCo chemistry has a slight tendency to settle a few hundredths of a volt after charging, and a few hundreths means a couple of %age points when you're in the 4.1V+ range) whereas most cheap chargers will actually keep checking the voltage and trickle charging if necessary.

Too much hassle to keep changing batteries in the Evo, would have to take my case off then the back cover is kinda a ***** and feels like its going to break a tab off or something. The immediate drop doesn't bother me too much. I just use my car charger and it tops me off usually.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Yes, you are right about switching at 70%. Didn't want to complicate things since we got some novices here clearly.
The hypothesis, not so much...as I said before its intentional and it does what it does to preserve the lifespan of the battery. If you paid $10 for a chinese battery, who cares about lifespan, just use an external charger.
Charge it when its off and it gets and stays at 100. Direct evidence that what they did was a feature and not a mistake.
Sent from an evo

I been using the 700 mah charger and I've haven't noticed any difference in performance. Also again I lost 9% carge in the 10 minutes I was surfing while eating breakfast. Oh well. Im not leaving my computer on all night sucking 400 watts or more to charge a 5 watt phone lol. Ill deal with the 10% drain.

Those are the critters under your bed, they use your phone while u r asleep.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

mastermarc said:
The hypothesis, not so much...as I said before its intentional and it does what it does to preserve the lifespan of the battery. If you paid $10 for a chinese battery, who cares about lifespan, just use an external charger.
Charge it when its off and it gets and stays at 100. Direct evidence that what they did was a feature and not a mistake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I build and design Lithium battery based systems for a living. There's absolutely no reason not to top off the battery. The recommended way to charge any Lithium cell is to constant-current charge and then constant-voltage charge up to 4.2V. Once you get to 4.2V, there's nothing wrong with charging it back up if it settles a little. In fact, most chargers don't even "terminate", they just hold 4.2V.
As for your assertion that it is not a bug, did you consider that perhaps the kernel designers are not realizing that there is some kind of parasitic drain on the battery once the kernel thinks it is full?

AzN1337c0d3r said:
I build and design Lithium battery based systems for a living. There's absolutely no reason not to top off the battery. The recommended way to charge any Lithium cell is to constant-current charge and then constant-voltage charge up to 4.2V. Once you get to 4.2V, there's nothing wrong with charging it back up if it settles a little. In fact, most chargers don't even "terminate", they just hold 4.2V.
As for your assertion that it is not a bug, did you consider that perhaps the kernel designers are not realizing that there is some kind of parasitic drain on the battery once the kernel thinks it is full?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just out of curiosity what kinda systems do you build? I have a lithium powered moped (lifepo4 48v 40ah) but i wouldn't say i particularly designed or built (just assembled) the battery system, would be good to have some connections with some real battery specialists for later projects.
In any case, the parasitic drain is an interesting idea but its odd that I can go to sleep, and in the morning my unplugged evo hasn't changed even 1% battery life, whereas it drains from 100% to some odd 90+ number happens when its plugged in. So the parasitic drain would have to only happen when its plugged in for whatever reason.
Some interesting stuff from the wiki.
Charging procedure
Stage 1: Apply charging current limit until the voltage limit per cell is reached.[42]
Stage 2: Apply maximum voltage per cell limit until the current declines below 3% of rated charge current.[42][unreliable source?]
Stage 3: Periodically apply a top-off charge about once per 500 hours.[42][unreliable source?]
The charge time is about three to five hours, depending on the charger used. Generally, cell phone batteries can be charged at 1C and laptop-types at 0.8C, where C is the current that would discharge the battery in one hour. Charging is usually stopped when the current goes below 0.03C but it can be left indefinitely depending on desired charging time. Some fast chargers skip stage 2 and claim the battery is ready at 70% charge.[42][unreliable source?] Laptop battery chargers sometimes gamble, and try to charge up to 4.35 V then disconnects the battery. This helps to compensate for the battery's internal resistance and charges up to 100% in short time.
Top-off charging is recommended when voltage goes below 4.05 V/cell.[42][unreliable source?]
Lithium-ion[which?] cells are charged with 4.2 ± 0.05 V/cell, except for military long-life cells where 3.92 V is used for extending battery life. Most protection circuits cut off if either 4.3 V or 90 °C is reached. If the voltage drops below 2.50 V per cell, the battery protection circuit may also render it unchargeable with regular charging equipment. Most battery protection circuits stop at 2.7–3.0 V per cell.[42][unreliable source?]
For safety reasons it is recommended the battery be kept at the manufacturer's stated voltage and current ratings during both charge and discharge cycles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have to check, but i am nearly certain this is exactly the kind of threshold charging system that you can use with lenovo's battery maximiser. As the wiki sorta explains, topping it off is fine...If you do it very infrequently (500hrs). Continuous charging from all i've ever learned on any chemistry just continues to corrode the plates until they become worse and worse at holding a charge.
No product manual anywhere will ever tell you to leave your charger plugged in for extended periods of time (save for 8hr battery conditioning on ni-cd, also of which it tells you not to do frequently). Storage instructions for lithium example say to leave the battery at about 70% charge. Extrapolating from that we can see that the lesser of the ideals is being completely empty, or too full.
Just my thoughts, much like everyone else i don't have any actual evidence that this was HTC's intention, just seems weird that they would screw something up that's been pretty much the same on the last 20 phones they made. My guess is they didn't.
Edit: oh, and the reason i bolded the military voltage is because that's another (very similar) idea as to what HTC might have done, which is lower the "full charge" threshold for as i suggested before....longer lifespan. But whether the phone ever actually gets to 100% is kinda irrelevant. My point is that its PROBABLY done intentionally to preserve the lifespan of the battery.

Hey this is a great tablet, but I noticed a bug and was curious if anyone else had this issue? When my screen is on max brightness and charging I noticed the battery will slowly lose charge. This becomes the most obvious if watching netflix or gaming. I hope someone can point me in the right direction of fixing this, unless of course it is a physical limitation of the device.
Edit: I have this problem when charging to a wall outlet, and when connected by usb. I am using the stock samsung charger. I understand the limitations of usb charging through a computer I am more suprised by the AC adapter connected to a home outlet not supplying enough current.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2

I have had this problem but only with brightness up and charging via computer.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium

Search the web I believe I read that this unfortunately is a problem with the device. Maybe it was attack of the show. I know I heard/read it somewhere.
Sent from my NookTablet using xda app-developers app

The Nexus 10 charges pretty slowly, so if it's using more power than it's getting, it's going to go down (though slower than if you weren't plugged in). Computers generally can't supply that much current, and most USB chargers are 1A. The stock charger is 2A, so use that when possible for faster charging.

rp181 said:
The Nexus 10 charges pretty slowly, so if it's using more power than it's getting, it's going to go down (though slower than if you weren't plugged in). Computers generally can't supply that much current, and most USB chargers are 1A. The stock charger is 2A, so use that when possible for faster charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing that you plug into a AC outlet is a power supply not a charger. The charger is in the N10. I've measured it with a current clamp meter and the N10 isn't even asking for half of the 2A that the power supply can deliver.

wptski said:
The thing that you plug into a AC outlet is a power supply not a charger. The charger is in the N10. I've measured it with a current clamp meter and the N10 isn't even asking for half of the 2A that the power supply can deliver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clamp meters generally aren't that accurate for such low amperage (obviously depends on the meter). In any case, the 2A supply can give enough for the battery to charge and for the device to be used concurrently. It may draw an amp just for charging, but that leaves another amp for the device to be used while maintaining peak charging speed.
This is all speculative, as I'm not 100% that the charging and device power usage is parallel.

Here's an easier way to determine N10 charging power that anyone can do. Get a Kill-A-Watt for $18 from Walmart, and plug the AC adapter into that. This doesn't directly tell you how much current the N10 pulls, but does allow you to infer charging current from the wattage pulled from the wall. You can then compare it with iPad 4 charging graph (in wattage) to determine N10 charging power as a percentage of iPad.
Below we see iPad 4 pulling a constant 13.6W for ~4hr before tapering off. iPad 4 uses the new 12W (2.4A) charger w/ Lightning connector. Assuming 80% conversion efficiency, it's about 10W (2A) going to iPad. iPad 4 averages 5-6hr for a full charge.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7
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iPad 4: Battery size = 42.5Whr, charge current = 2A, charge time = 6hr. N10 has 33.3Whr battery, and also averages 6hr. Assuming similar charging power curve, N10 would need to pull 2A * (33.3/42.5) = ~1.6A to achieve same charging time. So a measurement of less than 1A charging current is likely inaccurate, unless measurement was taken at the (tapered) tail end of the charging process.
Note 1: Per Anandtech, iPad also suffers from net-loss charging under heavy use, so the slow-charging issue stems from USB charging's limitation for high-capacity devices.
Note 2: Charging power may also be limited for thermal reasons. N10 already have a thermal throttling problem as it is, and faster charging would make this worse.

rp181 said:
Clamp meters generally aren't that accurate for such low amperage (obviously depends on the meter). In any case, the 2A supply can give enough for the battery to charge and for the device to be used concurrently. It may draw an amp just for charging, but that leaves another amp for the device to be used while maintaining peak charging speed.
This is all speculative, as I'm not 100% that the charging and device power usage is parallel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's high quality amp meter using its 4000mA range. It's draw less than 1A total, so if the battery is at 80%, it's not charging it as fast as it can. It runs off the battery and the charger replaces the usage. If demand is high, more comes out of the battery than the charger is putting in, not because it can't get it from the PS either.
It could charge twice as fast but the N10's internal charger is slow.

Arg consensus says it's related to an internal charger limitation, no hope of a software fix? Well thanks for the responses.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2

e.mote said:
Here's an easier way to determine N10 charging power that anyone can do. Get a Kill-A-Watt for $18 from Walmart, and plug the AC adapter into that. This doesn't directly tell you how much current the N10 pulls, but does allow you to infer charging current from the wattage pulled from the wall. You can then compare it with iPad 4 charging graph (in wattage) to determine N10 charging power as a percentage of iPad.
Below we see iPad 4 pulling a constant 13.6W for ~4hr before tapering off. iPad 4 uses the new 12W (2.4A) charger w/ Lightning connector. Assuming 80% conversion efficiency, it's about 10W (2A) going to iPad. iPad 4 averages 5-6hr for a full charge.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7
iPad 4: Battery size = 42.5Whr, charge current = 2A, charge time = 6hr. N10 has 33.3Whr battery, and also averages 6hr. Assuming similar charging power curve, N10 would need to pull 2A * (33.3/42.5) = ~1.6A to achieve same charging time. So a measurement of less than 1A charging current is likely inaccurate, unless measurement was taken at the (tapered) tail end of the charging process.
Note 1: Per Anandtech, iPad also suffers from net-loss charging under heavy use, so the slow-charging issue stems from USB charging's limitation for high-capacity devices.
Note 2: Charging power may also be limited for thermal reasons. N10 already have a thermal throttling problem as it is, and faster charging would make this worse.
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The AC current drawn by the charger doesn't infer the DC current. I have "AA" charger that charges at 7.5A(not a typo) and it doesn't draw 7.5A AC. I have a car battery charges at 2, 4, 10, 40A and car start at 100A and of course, a normal wall socket is limited to 20A max.
I'll have to check that again at a lower battery level to make it wasn't in the constant voltage part of the charging process.

I measured over 1800mA current draw with the screen on full and 2400mA with full brightness playing asphalt 7
I measured my tablet going from empty to full in 5.5 hours which makes current from the PSU around 1600mA
Looks to be that USB2 can't keep up with the power this tablet can consume when working flat out. Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A

>The AC current drawn by the charger doesn't infer the DC current.
AC current isn't considered; I'm looking only at the wattage and assuming 80% conversion efficiency. We know that USB = 5V, so from there we can infer DC amperage. It doesn't make sense to use a 2+A adapter at less than 50% of its rated output, especially when the charging time is already a long ~6hr. Using iPad as a baseline provides another point of reference, which says that 6hr charging time is probably considered "normal" for this high-capacity category.
>Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
As said, higher thermal would be a problem for faster charging. The underlying issue is N10's high-res screen, which only the Exy 5 can drive at the time of design, and why the latter was selected (Duarte dude said as much in N10 promo clip). The screen+SoC combo requires more power than can be compensated for, in both its thermal envelope and its charging capacity.
Found the promo clip. Listen at the 9:46 mark, or click on the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&t=586

e.mote said:
>The AC current drawn by the charger doesn't infer the DC current.
AC current isn't considered; I'm looking only at the wattage and assuming 80% conversion efficiency. We know that USB = 5V, so from there we can infer DC amperage. It doesn't make sense to use a 2+A adapter at less than 50% of its rated output, especially when the charging time is already a long ~6hr. Using iPad as a baseline provides another point of reference, which says that 6hr charging time is probably considered "normal" for this high-capacity category.
>Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
As said, higher thermal would be a problem for faster charging. The underlying issue is N10's high-res screen, which only the Exy 5 can drive at the time of design, and why the latter was selected (Duarte dude said as much in N10 promo clip). The screen+SoC combo requires more power than can be compensated for, in both its thermal envelope and its charging capacity.
Found the promo clip. Listen at the 9:46 mark, or click on the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&t=586
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Click to collapse
Watts=volts x current. 2A or 2.1A USB power supplies are a common size. Using a overrated PS isn't uncommon.

skally said:
I measured over 1800mA current draw with the screen on full and 2400mA with full brightness playing asphalt 7
I measured my tablet going from empty to full in 5.5 hours which makes current from the PSU around 1600mA
Looks to be that USB2 can't keep up with the power this tablet can consume when working flat out. Maybe they should have gone with USB3 as that can supply up to 5A
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Click to collapse
How did you measuring the current?

I think some of the chargers are defective.
I bought a 3rd party usb power brick and it charges in about 5 hours.
The one that came with it took overnight.

OK what others are saying is that the issue is from the limitations of USB in general unable to exceed 1.8 amps. I guess we have to wait until a decent pogo charger comes out which is rumored to have 2amps. There are 3rd party ones being sold for around 24 bucks on ebay.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2

wptski said:
How did you measuring the current?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I calculated these numbers from usage data.
battery capacity / hours of use
screen on full brightness
9Ah / 5 hours = 1.8A
Playing Asphalt
9Ah / 3h 40 min = 2.4A
These numbers actually close to double with the screen on around 20% brightness
---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------
e.mote said:
As said, higher thermal would be a problem for faster charging.
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Click to collapse
There are alternatives. Microsoft managed just fine with a 24w Charger. I suspect it runs at 12V 2A, but can't find any specs
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/9
ASUS also do something similar, using 15 Volts to lower the current and reduce energy lost in heat.

skally said:
I calculated these numbers from usage data.
battery capacity / hours of use
screen on full brightness
9Ah / 5 hours = 1.8A
Playing Asphalt
9Ah / 3h 40 min = 2.4A
These numbers actually close to double with the screen on around 20% brightness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you get 2.4A from a 2.0Ah PS?
I retested making sure my battery was low enough, at 80% with it OFF, I got around 800ma. It isn't my meter but there is one posible flaw in my setup though. I'm using a USB extension cord and it may be causing a voltage drop because of the added lenght and skewing the reading.

The voltage drop should be negligible for a USB cable, and any minor deviations should be corrected via regulator in the Nexus 10.

rp181 said:
The voltage drop should be negligible for a USB cable, and any minor deviations should be corrected via regulator in the Nexus 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then my max 800ma charging rate is correct and skally's calculations are incorrect??

Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.

14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.

@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!

XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.

Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.

Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday

Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run

what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app

There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.

Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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Click to collapse
It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
Click to expand...
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Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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Click to collapse
I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a nice day, all of you except one.

youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.

zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.

how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.

Hopeless.

I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app

yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html

no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.

Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.

I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?

This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well

I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app

There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.

Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.

Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.

Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Click to collapse
wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.

Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'

A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P

dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.

dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.

There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.

Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app

crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.

crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )

To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?

billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.

acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.

billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.

acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.

Is anyone else not seeing charging rapidly with their stock charger?

No, I saw rates of 1500ma with a 2.4 amp car charger, usb a to c cable (screen showed rapidly charging). I also saw rates of 2400ma with the stock charger usb c to c cable (screen showed rapidly charging). I am guessing my battery was not drained enough to see higher charge rates.

I think your phone needs to be like 50% charge or less to really see the benefits of quick charge.

Scyntherei said:
I think your phone needs to be like 50% charge or less to really see the benefits of quick charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was at 15% when I tried it. I have the stock charger and the Google 2 port 22.5w charger. I was plugged into the 2 port charger, but tried the stock charger for a minute. I may have had to leave it on the stock charger longer. Otherwise non "rapid" charging still took less than 2 hours from 15% to 100%.

donatom3 said:
Is anyone else not seeing charging rapidly with their stock charger?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No quick charge on the 6p.

luciferiusXI said:
No quick charge on the 6p.
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Click to collapse
I tried to edit my title I know it's not quick charge, but you can see youtube reviews where their phone shows "Charing Rapidly" on the lock screen and not just "charging". The phone can take up to 15W from the Type C port.

I tried the stock charger when the phone was at 60% and it varied between 1 and 2 amps. I'm going to run another test when the battery is lower. Sucks though because I typically try not to drain it that much.

Ok, I started charging with the stock 6p charger at 26%. I'm now at 74%. This charger does not ramp up in a linear fashion like other lithium-ion chargers that I'm familiar with. It's constantly ramping up and down over and over. The highest it's achieved was 2.8 amps for a few seconds and I would guess it may be averaging maybe 1 to 1.5 amps.
I'm wondering if it's even working to spec. Seems to me it ought to slowly ramp up to 3 amps, hold it, and then slowly ramp down at about 90%.
Anyone else monitored their charge rate?
Update: It took about 90 mins to go from 26% to 93%.

That sounds faulty. I can do that with a A->C setup in an hour. The google charger should be somewhat faster (40 minutes? Based on 2A vs 3A).

TonyHoyle said:
That sounds faulty. I can do that with a A->C setup in an hour. The google charger should be somewhat faster (40 minutes? Based on 2A vs 3A).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried the stock charger yet?

Not yet.. the battery on this thing is too darned good.. I'll try to remember tonight if it's low enough.

TonyHoyle said:
Not yet.. the battery on this thing is too darned good.. I'll try to remember tonight if it's low enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Load ampere from the play store and watch the charge rate. I wonder if it's just mine that has this very strange charge curve.

Glad I'm not going crazy. Coming from a Galaxy S6, I wasn't expecting the fast charge on this to be that slow.
From 46% to full on the stock fast charger supplied with the phone, it took an 1 hour 3 mins.
From 46% to full on my Anker IQ 71AN7105 which is supposed to output at 5V, 2.3 Amps, it took 1 hour 20 mins.
Both said the phone was "charging rapidly" when I plugged it in.
Just measured on the Anker, and it's showing charging rate at 640-790ma. So you're doing a lot better than I am! No wonder it's taking an age to charge!!!!
That's like normal non-fast charge surely.

I don't trust ampere to be honest.. charging current is supposed to vary but not the amount it's showing. I wonder if it's showing charging minus load, so having the screen on will make it give incorrect results, as will the various CPU sleep states, wifi, 3G, etc.
The real world test of time from x% to 100% or how many % in 30 minutes is somewhat better in that it's measuring the end result. I'll try to do that. (/me switches rob ross on twitch to drain some battery).

prophet42 said:
Glad I'm not going crazy. Coming from a Galaxy S6, I wasn't expecting the fast charge on this to be that slow.
From 46% to full on the stock fast charger supplied with the phone, it took an 1 hour 3 mins.
From 46% to full on my Anker IQ 71AN7105 which is supposed to output at 5V, 2.3 Amps, it took 1 hour 20 mins.
Both said the phone was "charging rapidly" when I plugged it in.
Just measured on the Anker, and it's showing charging rate at 640-790ma. So you're doing a lot better than I am! No wonder it's taking an age to charge!!!!
That's like normal non-fast charge surely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A typical charging curve is shown below. The shapes of the curves might vary some by battery and circuit, but in general a battery will draw full current (up to some limit) for a period of time and then the current draw will steadily decline. This is normal. A battery will charge from 0%-30% much faster than from 70%-100%. Beyond allowing 3A to the battery, there appears to be no "fast charging" technique employed by the 6P.
The real key is what is the charger actually outputting? This should be tested by an instrument, not the phone. If, for example, the charger is outputting 2.9A and the phone is 10% charged and only drawing your 700mA there is probably an issue OR the power control is limiting current for some valid reason. Maybe the battery temperature.
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dwswager said:
A typical charging curve is shown below. The shapes of the curves might vary some by battery and circuit, but in general a battery will draw full current (up to some limit) for a period of time and then the current draw will steadily decline. This is normal. A battery will charge from 0%-30% much faster than from 70%-100%. Beyond allowing 3A to the battery, there appears to be no "fast charging" technique employed by the 6P.
The real key is what is the charger actually outputting? This should be tested by an instrument, not the phone. If, for example, the charger is outputting 2.9A and the phone is 10% charged and only drawing your 700mA there is probably an issue OR the power control is limiting current for some valid reason. Maybe the battery temperature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was expecting a curve like this but it was a roller coaster starting at 26%. I expect the charger is putting out because I measured a momentary blip of 2.8 amps.
As was mentioned, Ampere may be part of the problem but I don't have other tools other than a simple time to full calculation. Do we even have specs as to what's that supposed to be?

OK here are the results I got:
Both started at 10%, with identical settings (although on different days, can't help that). Normal working settings.. I avoided having the display on except for checks and it was sat still so allowed to doze.
Code:
30 Mins 60 Mins 75 Mins Total Time
USB A 47% 81% 92% 93 mins
USB C 50% 85% 95% 82 mins
And expressed as % per minute
Code:
30 Mins 60 Mins 75 Mins To full
USB A 1.23 1.13 0.73 0.40
USB C 1.35 1.16 0.66 0.71
So, C (well, google's charger and cable) is around 15% faster for me* than A.
Around 90% charging visibly slows to a crawl on both methods. The first 80% or so are fast, but interestingly C gains most at the end as it doesn't slow down as much.
Edit: If you ignore the timings at the bottom, it looks very similar to the example graph posted. Which is expected I guess.
* YMMV, standard disclaimers, etc.

one thing to note is that the phone will also charge slower if your screen is on and generating additional heat. The phone will throttle the charging rate based on the temperature of the battery.

So while it's 15% faster, the battery capacity is more than 25% larger. So how is the real gain achieved?

I'm thinking that the google charger isn't sending 3A anyway.. You'd expect more difference even if my normal charger is going as high as 2.4A (and I'm not sure it goes that high without QC). USB C might be capable of it but this phone/charger combination isn't.