Database Users

Marketplace???

Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.

ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/

I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open

The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.

Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.

Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.

give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.

Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...

So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes

Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S

How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!

Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !

Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806

@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.

do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...

"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).

Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.

@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.

where to get apps??

ok so im new to this had my htc hd2 for about a week now, absolutley love it, but after having the iphone with lots of apps available for free i dont see many in marketplace could someone please tell me where i can get apps.
thankyou

There are a lot of free apps, search the forums in xda.
If you want 'FREE' apps google is your friend, but you can't ask people in here for stuff or links

The Windows Mobile platform is light years behind the iPhone for the application market. Yeh, there's loads around that do some things, but in terms of the micro-applications model that Apple has, WinMo is just nowhere near.
It won't be like that forever, but MSFT is playing catchup. Personally I think the release of WinMo 7 will be the big change that swings a bit of momentum. I still think MSFT need to release a dev environment better than the native (C++) and make it free.
I'm sure there are many more folk on here more qualified to talk such things than I am.

timiano said:
The Windows Mobile platform is light years behind the iPhone for the application market. Yeh, there's loads around that do some things, but in terms of the micro-applications model that Apple has, WinMo is just nowhere near.
It won't be like that forever, but MSFT is playing catchup. Personally I think the release of WinMo 7 will be the big change that swings a bit of momentum. I still think MSFT need to release a dev environment better than the native (C++) and make it free.
I'm sure there are many more folk on here more qualified to talk such things than I am.
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Ever since I wrote my review iphone vs HD2, the number of Apps in the Windows store has STILL NOT CHANGED !!!! Around 60, vs. 100k for app store? And yes, they even managed to put a fart ap among the 60!
Looking at what you can get for the iphone, I'm considering to sell my HD2. The latest one is my payTV provider that now offers a free of charge iPhone app to watch any of may pay TV chanels on the iPhone.
What about HD2? Not going to do it.
So much for HD2 and WM platform - if the software developers are not developing for it anymore, why stay with WM?

the-uki said:
why stay with WM?
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Because it's not made by Apple.

lukohtchd2 said:
ok so im new to this had my htc hd2 for about a week now, absolutley love it, but after having the iphone with lots of apps available for free i dont see many in marketplace could someone please tell me where i can get apps.
thankyou
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http://www.freewareppc.com/
You'll find many (legally) free apps there.

padlad said:
http://www.freewareppc.com/
You'll find many (legally) free apps there.
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thanks does anyone no where to get bejwelled 2 with integragated (sp) facebook, that app was awsome on ipod would love it on leo

@timiano and the-uki
Why do you even use the Marketplace? There are tens of thousands of applications for Windows Mobile available! Windows Mobile isn't that far behind at all.
The appliacations just aren't in the Marketplace, but that's huge advantage over the iPhone: With Windows Mobile, you don't have to rely on a company to allow applications, developers can distribute their applications through whatever channel they want.
Don't bother buying anything from the Marketplace.
Instead, have a look at this forum, handango.com, mobihand.com, freewareppc.com and (for games) gameloft.com.
The best Windows Mobile application repository is unfortunately not legal, so I can't mention it, but the sites I mentioned already give you a glance at what is available for Windows Mobile.

the-uki said:
Ever since I wrote my review iphone vs HD2, the number of Apps in the Windows store has STILL NOT CHANGED !!!! Around 60, vs. 100k for app store? And yes, they even managed to put a fart ap among the 60!
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Click to collapse
How many apps do you think were available for the Iphone when it had just been released ?? Probably not much either. So, how can you expect that there's thousands of apps in the Windows store, when it's only just 'open for business'?
As already stated before, there's lot's of places where Windows Mobile Apps are available, many for free!
So stop complaining about the amount of apps in the Windows Store, and try searching the Web.....I hear Google is pretty good doing that for you.

can you pm the link??

i dont know about u but personally i LMAO everytime i see an iphone ad which is actually advertising the tons of apps that 3rd party devs have actually made for them rather than advertising their product....
their moto.. "an app for everything.." lol WM had an app for everything way before apple even developed iphone!
i even had an app for everything in my old Symbian S60 phone

Mabye we can get an XDA "Marketplace" in near future?

Exlo said:
Mabye we can get an XDA "Marketplace" in near future?
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that would be good, seen some pretty good stuff here.

sorry for my little remark - it's only a funny comparison, but the question "Where can I find apps?" at xda-developers
is to compare with
"Do you have shoes?" in a shoe shop
sorry, not meant angry or so, just joking

MichelDiamond said:
sorry for my little remark - it's only a funny comparison, but the question "Where can I find apps?" at xda-developers
is to compare with
"Do you have shoes?" in a shoe shop
sorry, not meant angry or so, just joking
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like i said in post im new and only joined last night so just getting used to it all.

Check my siggy for some.

download apps
Hello everyone.
I thing that the bests sites for downloading apps for windows mobile 5,6,6.5 is:
http://www.microsoft.com/emea/windowsmobileapps/default.mspx
http://speckyboy.com/2009/07/27/49-free-windows-mobile-6-smartphone-apps-and-services/
http://download.cnet.com/mobile/cell-phone-applications/?filter=os=101
That's all.If i helped you please send me a message.
p.s.:Sorry for my bad english but i speak greek and the english is my second language

skr_xd said:
Check my siggy for some.
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cheers dude some awsome apps there i now love my leo alot more

seed_al said:
@timiano and the-uki
Why do you even use the Marketplace? There are tens of thousands of applications for Windows Mobile available! Windows Mobile isn't that far behind at all.
The appliacations just aren't in the Marketplace, but that's huge advantage over the iPhone: With Windows Mobile, you don't have to rely on a company to allow applications, developers can distribute their applications through whatever channel they want.
Don't bother buying anything from the Marketplace.
Instead, have a look at this forum, handango.com, mobihand.com, freewareppc.com and (for games) gameloft.com.
The best Windows Mobile application repository is unfortunately not legal, so I can't mention it, but the sites I mentioned already give you a glance at what is available for Windows Mobile.
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Click to collapse
Hi
Thanks for the reply. I don't use the marketplace as my main source of apps, and I've had an on off relationship with WinMo for quite some time and have used handango extensively in the past.
One of my biggest gripes over the App Store from Apple was its monopoly over what could be or not be in there. MSFT's model appears a little different as they appear to be more concerned about compliance rather than commercial conflicts - which is good.
But honestly, if you want WinMo to compete in the iPhone and Droid space, which I'm sure MSFT want, then their needs to be a marketplace for micro applications that cost reasonable amounts. And the apps need to be slick looking and not your usual .Net CF form bores.
I believe it will come, but it'll take some time.

Exlo said:
Mabye we can get an XDA "Marketplace" in near future?
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Click to collapse
That is an awesome idea. I'm surprised Handango don't have an installable marketplace app. I'd bet money on them having one in the near future though.

Poll: GPS Solutions?

Ok, folks. Having read through this thread (clicky) and others, having learned about the variety of GPS solutions for navigation, I'm still trying to decide on which one is the right for me.
I've been using TomTom since my HX4700 days, migrated to TomTom on my Kaiser and now have been using it on my HD2 with with the 9192_V_Black_noBT cab which works great. The reason I'm asking the question and posting the poll here is that now TomTom has decided to abandon the WM platform, I'm seeking a solution that I can rely on going forward. It's been great, but it's time to move on.
Google maps is NOT an option because I travel in areas where data (and even cell signals in general) are unreliable due to topography. Whatever I choose must be a standalone product that uses the internal GPS hardware, though I completely understand that enhanced features like traffic and weather are data-dependent. The system will be used primarily in the Continental US. No plans to travel overseas, but I can't rule it out, either.
So I'm curious to know what you guys have decided on over time, and why.
If you vote(d) for TomTom, please indicate what your plans are for the future as the company has abandoned the WM platform and the probability of new features and continued usability on our devices becomes less likely due to the unavailability of 3rd party CABs for the system.
Looking forward to seeing your votes and reading your feedback.

I'm currently using Waze. It's free and it works. I'm sure some of the paid programs are better, but if you are looking for a free solution, check out Waze.

BillTheCat said:
The reason I'm asking the question and posting the poll here is that now TomTom has decided to abandon the WM platform, I'm seeking a solution that I can rely on going forward.
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Tomtom is abandoning the WM platform for one good reason - the WM platform itself is being abandoned. So your question doesn't make much sense as we can't talk about durability anyway. So for now continue using the Tomtom you're using now on your HD2. Then, as your next phone most likely won't be a WM6.5 phone anymore, you'll have to make that decision at that point for the new platform you'll choose anyway.

Who said Tomtom have abandoned Windows Mobile?
I Googled it but the only thing I managed to find was another xda thread where someone said : "TOMTOM has officially abandoned the US market for TOMTOM Navigator 7 and above, "Due to difficulties with US Cell Service providers""...

kilrah said:
Tomtom is abandoning the WM platform for one good reason - the WM platform itself is being abandoned.
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First I'm hearing about this. Links and references please? In the meantime, one other way to look at it is to pick a solution from the above based on what other OS platforms they support.

I haven't heard any confirmation of WM being abandoned, but it makes perfect sense, the platform is dying. Developers don't want to develop for a platform which, come the end of the year, will no longer be put on any devices. There is no decent centralised source of apps (marketplace hasn't changed what it offers in the 5 months I've had a HD2) which causes developers concern about who will ever find their app to buy in the first place. Add that to the growing number of consumers ditching WM for iOS4, Android 2.2 and yes eventually WMP7, and you've got yourself a corpse of an operating system on your hands. Now tell me why would you spend time and money developing software for an OS whose market share is dramatically shrinking and in no way guarantees you profit return?

laserviking said:
I haven't heard any confirmation of WM being abandoned, but it makes perfect sense, the platform is dying.
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I've been hearing this sort of 'rumor' about this platform since the days when it was called Windows CE while other OS's and platforms like EPOC for Psion others have fallen by the wayside. Yet here we are, almost two decades later, and there are ample apps on other sites than the Marketplace. So I'll ask everyone to please confine the discussion to the question asked, assume that Windows Mobile will still be around, and respond accordingly not on what might be, but what is for right now.

What are you using the GPS for? cant help you with street navigation but for hiking or 4wding i use Oziexplorer, I too once had a HX4700 for a few years and have been using Oziexplorer. You have to get your own maps and its not a street navigation type software. There are programs available to "rip" google maps and convert to maps usable by Ozi which works great!

BillTheCat rocks, lol!
BillTheCat said:
Ok, folks. Having read through this thread (clicky) and others, having learned about the variety of GPS solutions for navigation, I'm still trying to decide on which one is the right for me.
I've been using TomTom since my HX4700 days, migrated to TomTom on my Kaiser and now have been using it on my HD2 with with the 9192_V_Black_noBT cab which works great. The reason I'm asking the question and posting the poll here is that now TomTom has decided to abandon the WM platform, I'm seeking a solution that I can rely on going forward. It's been great, but it's time to move on.
Google maps is NOT an option because I travel in areas where data (and even cell signals in general) are unreliable due to topography. Whatever I choose must be a standalone product that uses the internal GPS hardware, though I completely understand that enhanced features like traffic and weather are data-dependent. The system will be used primarily in the Continental US. No plans to travel overseas, but I can't rule it out, either.
So I'm curious to know what you guys have decided on over time, and why.
If you vote(d) for TomTom, please indicate what your plans are for the future as the company has abandoned the WM platform and the probability of new features and continued usability on our devices becomes less likely due to the unavailability of 3rd party CABs for the system.
Looking forward to seeing your votes and reading your feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that the Bing mobile app does have free turn by turn navigation with voice prompts, right?

richo, given the programs in the poll, it's for mobile navigation.
dipalonv, per my original post, it needs to be a standalone solution.

BillTheCat said:
richo, given the programs in the poll, it's for mobile navigation.
dipalonv, per my original post, it needs to be a standalone solution.
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Click to collapse
My bad! You may want to look into CoPilot Live 8. I believe it's only $29.99 so not too bad price wise.

BillTheCat said:
I've been hearing this sort of 'rumor' about this platform since the days when it was called Windows CE while other OS's and platforms like EPOC for Psion others have fallen by the wayside. Yet here we are, almost two decades later, and there are ample apps on other sites than the Marketplace. So I'll ask everyone to please confine the discussion to the question asked, assume that Windows Mobile will still be around, and respond accordingly not on what might be, but what is for right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't you followed the WP7 discussions a couple of months ago?
Windows phone 7 series that is due to be out at the end of the year has been announced by Microsoft as being based on a new concept, that makes all existing WM applications incompatible, unlike with all the previous WM revisions you mention where applications were reuseable. So, everything will have to be reprogrammed for the new platform. So not only will you have to wait for it to be out to buy a compatible program, but also no provider of navigation software has so far announced they would make something for it AFAIK. So for that kind of software just like all others, there will most likely be no offering until the platform proves to be profitable and developers have the time to reprogram everything for the new it, just like iPhone users had to wait for more than 2 years before a standalone GPS solution was available.
WM6.5 will be kept in parallel, "for low-end devices". As you have an HD2, I doubt you'll go for a "low-end device" in the future. And developers are abandoning it simply because it won't be the little remaining WM6.5 bit that will earn them money, it's the new WP7S where "all the hype" is. It's the incompatibility that will bury WM6.5, developers won't lose their time writing a second separate app for the old WM6.5.
Sooo... don't count on long-term useability. What you get today will only last you until you change phone, unless you stick to the "lower-end" future phones to stay on WM6.5.

I've just come back from a road trip in the States, i drove 2500 miles, using Co Pilot Live 8, and it worked a treat, no problems at all, and for the price it's a good deal

Hi, tried to use Copilot, paid the license
results: hd2 jammed,sd card (32gb) unreadable, lost of photos and videos, softs no more working, and of course copilot. Each start of the prog brings new damages.
see no one having that....
don't find a solution outside of replacing with my original sd card
greetings
croquemor

kilrah said:
Haven't you followed the WP7 discussions a couple of months ago?
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No, I haven't followed that. Can we all please focus on the question that was asked instead of going off on tangents?

Is Windows Mobile an application desert?

I'm fairly new to smartphones, having had the Tilt2 for only about six months after about four years with a Treo 650, but one thing seems to be increasingly true about Windows Mobile phones: If you want the greatest capabilities, you just have to get an iPhone, not a Windows phone.
It just drives me crazy that all the good apps are iPhone. Deposit checks to Chase Bank without deposit slips or going to the bank using your iPhone camera AND THE CHASE DEPOSIT APP FOR iPHONE! Netflix, play movies on iPhone or trailers on Windows. AT&T U-verse download and play movies...on your iPhone. These are three fairly new ones that come to mind, but it is this way for seemingly everything. Even TCM's new movie schedule app is for iPhone, Droid, and Blackberry...Blackberry for crying out loud...but not Windows.
It's another 18 months before we can upgrade for a reasonable price from our two HTC Tilt2 phones to iPhones. If Microsoft wants to increase its market share, it needs to offer subsidies to developers. Windows 7 Mobile is not the answer...we don't buy computers for the sake of the operating systems. It's for the programs that run on the OS. Isn't it the same with smart phones? They all make calls and take bad photos. It's the other stuff that is the difference.
Am I wrong?

Youre absolutely right, however with over 300,000 downloads of the windows phone 7 SDK already, I think the next version of windows will have plenty of apps to enjoy. Microsoft is also wanting developers to release a free demo of all software, so we can check out any app to make sure we want to buy it. With the integration of XBOX Live, playing games online with other windows 7 users and the focus on gaming, WP7 is going to be awesome. UI definitely looks great and there are rumors that the day the marketplace opens up there will be over 100,000 aps submitted and available. Things really are looking up for microsoft phones. I know I'm getting one!

MPlayer: will let you stream hulu and bbc and others.
Movies for rental: Check out Amazon Unbox. It's part of amazons video service, where you can rent and buy movies and tv shows. You can have the settings set to automatically download a mobile version of the movie or show you are getting. Though I've never tried it with a rental. I usually just buy tv shows for 99 cents. Downside is it is not streaming, but download to pc and then transfer to your phone. Another option is to use
It's true that some of the very new apps will probably never see a WinMo 6.x port since the platform is switching to WP7, but calling it an "application desert" is a stretch. I have over 100 different programs installed to my phone, with everything from musical instrument simulators to various business tools and games. There's a huge number of free programs as well as a lot of high quality paid-for programs. Check the "apps worth installing on the tp2" for a good sample of the free applications you can get.

bowserb, as you said, you are new to smartphones, so with a lot of respect i want to share something, my experience with smartphones is a little more than yours, motorola q, blackberry, htc 8125, samsung epix, samsung blackjack, htc touch and know i have a tilt2, and beleive me its much more phone than the iphone
windows mobile and iphone are two differents worlds, windows is more for professionals and business people, focussed in getting the job done, excellent in word, excel, pp, (create and edit), emails capabilities, outlook and exchange sync, etc,etc, then as a second priority is the music, videos, etc,etc
on the other hand iphone is the phone for teenagers, to play, to think they have the ultimatte machine (go to a high school and teel me if dont see al least a hundred of them in 110 kids), you need aplications for everything, let me explain, when you are to compare a phone you have to do it from the box, which one is more capable without going to itunes or marketplace, there the iphone dont have a chance, in others words if you dont jailbreak the iphone its almost useless, my sister and my brother have them, so i know what im talking about
if you want real games and real tv, you have xbox, playstation and a flat screen

MS doesn't care about its market share for Windows Mobile 6. Mobile is a tiny part of MS's business, completely insignificant compared to sales of PC operating systems, Office, etc. It remains to be seen how much MS will even care about Windows Phone 7. With WP7, its possible they can make money off the mobile market like Apple and Google have, but that remains to be seen. It would require a whole new level of support and financial commitment than MS has shown in the past. MS has proved they can make money from a new market (XBOX), if they see it as a viable potential opportunity and throw enough resources at it. But if they go into half-hearted, they will fail now that Apple and Google already have a substantial hold on the market.
Yes, commercial developer support for WM6 is drying up with WP7 coming in the next couple months. But there is still a huge user supported base, many will argue. If you want more support from MS and other commercial developers, its not going to happen. They have all moved on.
The underpinnings of WM6 is just too old for developers to make backwards compatible applications. All the WM products up to version 6 are based on the same Windows CE code from 2000. So you can see why there is little desire to make an application for this outdated OS, when there is a modern updated version coming out in a few months.
And don't forget about Android. The iPhone is all the rave for the uninformed. But if you want a OS that has a huge user community, and tons more customization and function than the iPhone, then Android is what you want. Unless MS can really turn things around, I'm almost certainly going Android for my next phone.

Since you want an Iphone so bad.....
Here is my two cents on an iPhone.
Yes, I agree with you it has a lot of nifty apps, in various categories. On of the other side, a "phone" is for making calls. I have 3 cousins, and a few family friends who have Iphones, they hate the "phone" part of it because it drops calls, and lags on the phone screen severly. I know many people who have smartphones who send internet to their iPhone's to do what you were talking about with the Chase banking things and stuff. The new iPod Touch has a camera and mic if I'm not mistaken.
My dad used to be subscribed to a PocketPC magazine, and they ranked iPhone top of the line for apps, but worst for phone usage. Even worse than regular phones (ie non-smartphones).
Whatever you want to do is up to you though.

App desert?
Thanks for the comments, guys. I had no idea that WM6.5 was an update of Windows CE. Last time I used that OS was on a Casio PDA...a really long time ago. (Note for the younger crowd: A PDA was smartphone without the phone.) About Windows 7 mobile--will I have to buy a new phone to get it, or will there likely be an upgrade available from HTC?
MS Office. I can't imagine iPhone Contacts being a clumsier, more limited application than on the Tilt2, where contacts show up multiple times and all with m next to the name. Word and Excel are OK, but I almost never use them, even though they are indispensable on my desktop computer.
Dropped calls on iPhone. I suspect that is an AT&T problem, not iPhone. My Tilt2 drops calls all the time, as did the Treo 650 before it and the Sony/Erikson before that. Isn't that the reason people are clamoring for iPhone on Verizon?
iPhone is for teenagers? How do you know I'm not one? And even though I'm not, why should they have all the fun? No I don't really care about music and movies on my phone, but the ever growing list of useful and practical apps for the iPhone would seem to make that platform the choice of all age groups!
Anyway, this reply is mostly rhetorical. In 18 months, it will be time to survey the smartphone landscape.

redpoint73 said:
MS doesn't care about its market share for Windows Mobile 6. Mobile is a tiny part of MS's business, completely insignificant compared to sales of PC operating systems, Office, etc. It remains to be seen how much MS will even care about Windows Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They better start caring, mobile phones are going to be replacing PC's for many folks in the future.

txrider said:
They better start caring, mobile phones are going to be replacing PC's for many folks in the future.
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Click to collapse
They do. They are investing billions into WP7.

bowserb said:
About Windows 7 mobile--will I have to buy a new phone to get it, or will there likely be an upgrade available from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 will be for new phones only, and an official upgrade is out of the question. The Tilt2/TP2 does not meet the stiff hardware requirements mandated by WP7. From the processing power all the way to the hardware button layout, it doesn't meet the new WP7 standards. Wouldn't be surprised if the smart folks on XDA will get some form of hacked version to work on Rhodium, but propably won't be quite the same experience as on a phone that runs WP7 natively.

redpoint73 said:
WP7 will be for new phones only, and an official upgrade is out of the question. The Tilt2/TP2 does not meet the stiff hardware requirements mandated by WP7. From the processing power all the way to the hardware button layout, it doesn't meet the new WP7 standards. Wouldn't be surprised if the smart folks on XDA will get some form of hacked version to work on Rhodium, but propably won't be quite the same experience as on a phone that runs WP7 natively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even the high end HTC HD2 will not get an official upgrade to WP7, it has been said by Microsoft and HTC....
If the people on here can do it...that's another story...

Who is switching to WP7?

Who is switching over to Windows Phone 7 if Gingerbread is not what it is hyped up to be. (No new UI, broken features, market not fixed up... ect.)
If Google doesn't fix it up. I prefer a polished, fully working OS compared to a bunch of ROM's that each have their own features, and no one ROM has all the features in one.
Windows Phone 7 will integrate with Windows 7-8, Xbox 360, home servers, and will have Xbox Live marketplace support. I find all this integration a huge feature that will probably bring me over. Microsoft is also said to be creating their own cloud for WP7, Skydrive, and if all Microsoft system's have Xbox Marketplace, why wouldn't Windows 7?
I love tight integration and the ability to share with ease. I find Android takes a while at moment to do simple things, like search the market for that one great app, or have a music player that is feature packed and has the ability to share with desktop speakers.

I am waiting for gingerbread, then i will make my decision...unless it has a MAJOR UI rework, some serious gaming capabilities, new media player ecc. I'm switching to WP7...
very sad to see snapdragon wp7 devices running cool ui and games with advanced graphics while our nexus can't because of generic drivers and fragmentation of hardware platforms in the Android panorama...it's like consoles vs pc's
consoles: you do what sony or nintendo or MS decide you can do, but code is fully optimized and developed for that platform, meaning better performance, no waste of power
pc: you can do what you want but code isn't optimized because of the infinite hardware configurations, so you need more power to run same games.

Completely agree with you. I am against Apple's policy for the iPhone, but WP7 is in between Android and iOS. It hits the sweet spot IMO.
If you want to talk about PC OS's though, I have OSX running on my Windows Gaming PC, so it is technically more open then to just their systems. That why I like it too.

Looks nice, but no copy and paste? Until they get that sorted, I'm ooooot!

Glad you like XBox integration x986123 and are switching to a better OS for your needs.
I will stay with Android and Google's developer baby
In my opinion Google has shown that are willing to give their users more value with free toy's that really help out in everyday life (Google Voice, Google Maps Navigation, Tethering etc) that other giants like Microsoft and Apple just don't seem to care about. This lets me know that Google really cares about bringing value to their customers rather than just selling them a phone and wanting to make more money and so I can trust Google to continue to do this in the future much more than I could with Microsoft.
Also it seems from your 1st post that your main argument for switching is xBox integration wheareas I could care less about that... I don't have an xBox

Yup! I certainly giving it some good thought. I'm also going to decide after the Ginge, but i'm not going to hold my breath.
Also i'm very unhappy about google's attitude towards privacy and data

ap3604 said:
Glad you like XBox integration x986123 and are switching to a better OS for your needs.
I will stay with Android and Google's developer baby
In my opinion Google has shown that are willing to give their users more value with free toy's that really help out in everyday life (Google Voice, Google Maps Navigation, Tethering etc) that other giants like Microsoft and Apple just don't seem to care about. This lets me know that Google really cares about bringing value to their customers rather than just selling them a phone and wanting to make more money and so I can trust Google to continue to do this in the future much more than I could with Microsoft.
Also, it seems from your 1st post that your main argument for switching is xBox integration wheareas I could care less about that... I don't have an xBox
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Click to collapse
Lol. You dont need an xbox for xbl integration, clueless.
I doubt ginger will fix androids peoblems. It will just further fragment android and lots of people will be surprised when they find out the carrier/manufacturer will not update their phone. Happy hacking?
Btw google voice is close to useless after you get over the "new toy euphoria."
Everyome knows Bing has had voice guided navigation forever (out of beta before Google's), so I don't know why you're mentioning that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Why would you bother using XBL integration if you didnt have an xbox? Just curious?

stinkypete said:
Yup! I certainly giving it some good thought. I'm also going to decide after the Ginge, but i'm not going to hold my breath.
Also i'm very unhappy about google's attitude towards privacy and data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and the market is terrible. Allowing developers to put permissions on their apps that make no sense whatsoever, and change them in updates.
I want a phonr I don't have to load up with apps, and an os that doesn't let everything run as a service. I'm about to factory reset again because my phone cannot sit idle for 6 hours without dying from a full charge, and I've pretty much uninstalled all my apps, lol.
Not even funny. Worst mobile platform I've used - ever.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

tameracingdriver said:
Why would you bother using XBL integration if you didnt have an xbox? Just curious?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why bother asking rhetorical questions?
Google is your friend. We aren't here to hold your hand, sweetie.
Why get an iOS device for gamecenter if you don't have a mac? Etc. It's just a dumb, rhetorical question, especially coming from an android user, who can do nothing but wish this platform had decent games, neverming anything comparable to gamecenter or xbl.
WP7 games go not require an xbox. Xbox integration is perk, not a requirement. Ciao!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Maybe the second generation, but really the wp7 phones that are coming are unfinished. It is missing so many features.
I believe they shouldn't release wp7 yet, but I can see the want to make money while they finish developing. But releasing it unfinished will prob put a bad taste in peoples mouth's and turn out bad for what could be a decent platform
Rellikzephyr
Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

N8ter said:
Lol. You dont need an xbox for xbl integration, clueless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check your attitude at the door when you come to Xda... it aint welcome here, got it?
N8ter said:
Btw google voice is close to useless after you get over the "new toy euphoria."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah your right... free text messaging, voicemail transciption, and having an all in one number for all of your phones in case of an emergency sounds like useless features.
N8ter said:
Everyome knows Bing has had voice guided navigation forever (out of beta before Google's), so I don't know why you're mentioning that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm mentioning it because for anyone who has actually used Bing's voice guided navigation like I have, it really pales in comparison to Google's more polished product:
- Doesn't work when screen is turned off to save battery / less heat like Google Maps Navigation does
- Doesn't turn off music when saying directions so you can't hear the directions over your music like Google Maps Navigation does
- Doesn't give you alternative route options to avoid traffic like Google Maps Navigation does
- Doesn't give a 3d point of view like Google Maps Navigation does

Well,
should I switch from my beloved Nexus that provides me with great features neither mom's iPhone nor my former WM6.5 phone had for an OS made by Microsoft?
That would ruin my statistics (no Win PC in my household)
So - of course I will never switch to Windows Phone whatever
(I do not like the "homescreen" of win phone 7 either and as mentioned above - no clipboard? wtf? who would release something like that?)

After getting used to the ability to fully customize our phones, I don't think I could make the switch to wp7. Just the lack of homescreen customization is enough for me to reconsider. Unless they allow for different launchers, it will not do.

tameracingdriver said:
Looks nice, but no copy and paste? Until they get that sorted, I'm ooooot!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean the missing copy and paste in Android? It is a shame that Google has been unable to fix that even in 2.2.1.
How anybody can create a mobile OS in 2010 without copy and paste is beyond me, especially if they just have to copy Apple's copy and paste which works really well.
x986123 said:
Who is switching over to Windows Phone 7 if Gingerbread is not what it is hyped up to be. (No new UI, broken features, market not fixed up... ect.)
I know I probably am, if Google doesn't fix it up. I prefer a polished, fully working OS compared to a bunch of ROM's that each have their own features, and no one ROM has all the features in one.
Windows Phone 7 will integrate with Windows 7-8, Xbox 360, home servers, and will have Xbox Live marketplace support. I find all this integration a huge feature that will probably bring me over. Microsoft is also said to be creating their own cloud for WP7, Skydrive, and if all Microsoft system's have Xbox Marketplace, why wouldn't Windows 7?
I love tight integration and the ability to share with ease. I find Android takes a while at moment to do simple things, like search the market for that one great app, or have a music player that is feature packed and has the ability to share with desktop speakers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could not have said it better myself. Android has hundreds of features but only half really work well. Until that gets fixed, less is more ... and I rather have 50 features that work well and work all the time than hundreds that don't work at all.

man this dude is full of hate toward android and mind you hes prolly still running touchwiz on that vibrant
I hope that we get a w7 port for our n1's so we can all try it out at least or even better, dual boot! I doubt I will switch though, new market to develop and populate and prolly a smaller pool of dev's for customization as well...

Lets hope Google gets their act together and makes Gingerbread a worthy competitor for Microsoft. These broken features and (5 year old) designers need to step up their game.
I left Apple for Android because it was more open, but now having used Android for almost a year, I find it's so open that it is unoptimized for super devices and low end. We have a bare looking OS with almost no animations and unused features. WP7 is the midway point, it is closed, but has a greater phone choice than Apple, while Microsoft is know for being slightly more open than Apple.

No way
I would never leave Android for an unproven OS, plus the tiles thing is so unproductive.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Tethering not allowed, copy&paste doesn't work, 7 apps in store, developers not happy w/closed os, not backword capatible, 1st generation, ...Good Luck!

One word - Never