Database Users

people disapointed by the Exec ?

Hi all,
i read more and more people wanting to sell their brand new exec, BARELY USED... Are people disappointed by it and think it doesn't worth the money ???
I am really wondering what is wrong with it... and i don't have one yet, but i am thinking about getting one... now reading more and more bad reviews on it, dispointment and people selling it after less than a week of use... i am really hesitating to buy it, even though i ve waited it for many months !
What is your opinion about it and do you think it really worth 1000 € ??
Thanks,
Mike.

I would NEVER recommend it for a housewife, but if you are just a little bit tech savvy, AND have a weekend to spare setting it up according to guidance on these forums, it's great. If you do not, you could be extremely miserable with the speed and unacceptable bugs such as BT turning off.

I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.

As a phone its no good for me just too fiddily, i use it as a data centre and pocket pc with a seperate phone, for this it is perfect

I think its a great little device. Don't get me wrong, if you expect it to have no bugs you will not be happy but as with all new technology, it will take time to iron them out.
In the meantime, I am happy to live with the minor glitches. It wont take long until the Exec is supported better (and also WM5) and this should be when this device comes into its own.
As for the functionality as a phone - I really am getting used to it

xiasma said:
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
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This is spot-on. That's exactly what a few people are doing. Sure there are some people who have been disappointed with theirs, but honestly, what were they expecting? Most people who are complaining are either newcomers to the PDA/Phone world, or they're installing every damn WM2003 software they've ever bought and killing their machines with incompatible software. IMHO
I couldn't ever personally justify €1000 for any phone/PDA device, but for €500 it is an excellent machine. I love mine. Perhaps I'm biased. Just remember that it's an early release of WM5 and there are a few bugs. They'll be fixed in time though and they're not fundamental IMHO.

@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?

I agree with what's been said so far. If someone came to this even from a Nokia smartphone I think they could be disappointed, as they are phones first and pda/gadgets/whatever second whereas the Universal is more like a high-end pda with a phone that happens to be built in. Even coming from a non-phone PDA (as I did) takes a little getting used to imho, since I used to have a far more cavalier attitude to installing stuff on my ipaq whereas now with the Universal I need to consider "will people still be able to ring me if I install this shareware demo?". Stability and reliability is very important for a phone, but for a small portable computer I tend to think that features and what-can-I-install-next are key. These are almost mutually exclusive characteristics and so finding the right compromise is a fairly personal decision I think - although it will probably divide into those two camps.
Going off-topic a bit, it would be nice if there were a 'phone only' kind of safe mode on the Universal, so if you do get something buggy going on you can set it to phone-only mode until you get round to sorting the problems, safe in the knowledge that at least the phone will work.
What do you think?

jah said:
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
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It's the Data 5 tariff - purchase from an O2 shop, not online. You maybe able to buy it over the 'phone.

I think people are after quick bucks as well, to me the Exec is buggy, not because of the device but rather the reliablities of WM5. Performance wise it's decent even with O2 active, my major issue is I can't get most of my most often used softwares to work properly in WM5.
Size wise, I was really surprised as it's not nearly as big as I originally imagined, it's only slightly bigger than my old IIs. I think couple ROM upgrades, I'd love this thing

I am glad you guys started this thread. I too want to purchase an HTC Universal, but was having second thoughts because of the bad comments I read about it.
I do have one question though, "Is it plague with soft resets?" How often do you have to perform a soft/hard reset?

First, my hypocrisy: I have an XDA Exec, I've let the opportunity go by to return it and I'm probably going to persevere.
Next, the rant...
I think it is a complete disgrace for this product to have been released as it currently is. It shouldn't be necessary to spend a weekend getting a consumer device up and running. The bugs in the software are not "kinks", they are key pieces of functionality that simply do not work. Microsoft, O2, Vodaphone would have picked up these within 1 day of normal operation without installing ANY other software and yet they release the product and charge you for it.
Here are some of my most obvious examples:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
This is the kind of experience the world had to put up with when Windows 95 was launched and I thought Microsoft had finally reached a point where they were able to release decent software (like Windows XP), but clearly they're still happy to release rediculously low quality products.
What I do plan to do is to harrass O2 as much as possible regarding this. Make them wish they'd never sold the product because of what it's costing them to support. As MS now have OEM resellers carefully positioned between the end user and themselves perhaps doing this will eventually put pressure on MS to stop insulting us.
What's sad, is that they're doing it again - Palm have just decided to start running Windows Mobile, so it's only a matter of time until the Microsoft monopoly has been extended to PDAs as well. And the crazy thing is that this isn't because of it even being a nice product to use (bugs aside). How can MS (who have been developing software for such a long time) be so completely clueless when it comes to software design. Reading this site confirms that I'm by no means the only one complaining:
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
Every time, the support community comes up with nice freeware apps that fill all the holes and on the next release of the OS, all the same holes are there. It's like MS lock all the app designers and developers in a room and don't let them near an end user.
Believe it or not, this post not from an old Microsoft hater, but I'm surely becoming a new one.
There, I'm done...
Dave

It is better than the BlueAngel!!!
I received mine in from O2 the other day and from just running Win2005 and included software, this device really seems to be an improvement over my MDAIII, which I have never yet been able to work solidly in a years's time of playing with it. The build quality is very good. However, my 2 primary 3rd party applications - Goodlink push email and Tom Tom Navigator 5 - do not intall and work. I have been told that the Tom Tom will work if the CABs are transferred in manually, but I have not yet tried that. My Dictionary and Bible programs installed and work fine from their SD chips. But the only thing now is to wait for everybody to tweak apps to Microsoft 2005. This device should start to take off after that starts to occur. However, once HP with their iPaq 6515 upgraades to 2005, then that should be major competition to HTC - even though HTC makes those as well :lol:

There are absolutely, catagorically, 100% certainly, no arguements, LESS BUGS in my brand new WM5 JasJar than any WM2003SE device I've owned previously.
I agree with some points made though, software which works on WM5 is few and far between, and even if you find some which says it works, it may still cause problems...Look at SPB Pocket Plus which slows the JJ to a crawl if you put a storage card meter on your today screen.
My advice is to be patient and accept that because you've bought the first WM5 device, there will be some time to wait until there's software available that's not only "Compatible with...", but actually "Designed for..." WM5.

Very pleased I didn't own a WM2003 device older device then. It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
In terms of other applications, I completely accept that installing old apps on WM2005 may cause problems. I'm refering to the product "out the box".

daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
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What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?

I've already taken it back twice and it's been swapped out both times. There are a number of people on this forum who have had the same problem. Here's one posting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=30591&highlight=
I guess it's possible that if I were to flash to the imate ROM it might work, but then I lose my warrantee.

TBH, I disagree with just about EVERY point on your list
I'm certainly not aware of glaring bugs or omissions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm using an MDA Pro - perhaps the XDA Exec's extra software is the cause for most gripes.
daveb1976 said:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
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I hate T9 so I've never tried it on the Universal. Then again, with a full keyboard, why would I?
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
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I use voice command all the time and it works PERFECTLY for me. That's well beyond my expectations. Now I can't say I've noticed your issue with contacts, but then again, when I use voice command it's when I'm not really using the screen or keyboard.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
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Totally and utterly disagree
First of all, MS are trying to get people away from traditional Windows thinking of starting and stopping applications. They want to give the perception of everything just always being there and ready. This wasn't an easy decision for them, but I believe it was the right one. OK, for all us techies and PC-savvy types, yeah, we know what's going on in memory. But lots of consumers (your mum, for example) don't. And this is actually a behavior of the APPLICATIONS, not of Windows Mobile. Take a look at the developer's guidelines and you'll see.
Also, if you want to *terminate* an application that was not designed to be terminated using the (X) button, go to Settings, Memory, Running Programs. You can close any or all applications there. And that's been part of Windows Mobile since at least 2002, if not sooner.
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
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That's your experience, but so far removed from mine it's untrue! Then again, I've installed almost nothing extra on my Universal.
[snip]
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
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yeah, I'm in 100% agreement on these two.
:evil: :evil:
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
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See my comment about Settings/memory/Running programs. You can use this as a task switcher too. But the idea really is to discourage this kind of Windows NT/XP mindset.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
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Another brave decision for MS is to try to make files easier for consumers to understand. The idea is
"I don't really understand file systems. Why can't I keep all my documents together? In fact, why do I even need to know where my documents are kept? I just want my spreadsheets to be presented to me when I go to Excel; I want my pictures to be presented to me when I go to picture viewer; etc"
MS had a stab at this with Windows 95 and "My Documents". They have abandoned this in Windows Vista in favour or something more like Windows Mobile's "show you what you need when you need it". All these utilities really will become obsolete for all but the most techie users. My companies products are following the same ideology in desktop and mobile software.

sub69 said:
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
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Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
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Click to collapse
The T9 PhonePad bug is described in other threads on this forum and I've found that my device has the same problem. However, I don't personally find this in any way restrictive since the Universal has ...umm... a full, usable, hardware keyboard.
All these PDA/phone machines have been best after several experiments with their configuration. I did a hard reset this morning so that I cleaned off all my experimental applications' legacies and now I'm running trusted, tested apps that work well and bring huge positive benefits.
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.

SiliconS said:
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
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Again, I completely disagree. In fact, of almost ALL the 100s of computers I've used and owned, I'd say that it is less true of the MDA Pro than it is any other computer (maybe except the Z88)
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
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I'll agree with all of that though

Marketplace???

Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.

ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/

I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open

The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.

Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.

Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.

give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.

Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...

So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes

Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S

How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!

Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !

Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806

@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.

do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...

"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).

Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.

@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.

Why is the Windows marketplace so poor?

Hi,
Just been looking through the marketplace and have to say it's rather poor, hardly any apps, and a lot of those that are there are very expensive. Whilst a lot of apps on the iphone are very gimicky, there are apps for just about everything, and there are thousands of free apps. As Microsoft are always competing with Apple on just about every front how come they've let apple get so far ahead in this area? I couldn't even find a basic solitaire came, all I found was freecell, which you have to pay for :-/ Will the marketplace always be poor or is it set to explode?
Cheers

snerkler said:
Hi,
Just been looking through the marketplace and have to say it's rather poor, hardly any apps, and a lot of those that are there are very expensive. Whilst a lot of apps on the iphone are very gimicky, there are apps for just about everything, and there are thousands of free apps. As Microsoft are always competing with Apple on just about every front how come they've let apple get so far ahead in this area? I couldn't even find a basic solitaire came, all I found was freecell, which you have to pay for :-/ Will the marketplace always be poor or is it set to explode?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marketplace differs from region to region. You may want to look at changing your region (not via settings - it's documented on xda forums) and then see what else is available.
Personally, I think Marketplace is very good, but needs time to grow. You can't expect it to be full when it's only been publicly available for a matter of months.
Incidentally, this isn't a "HD2 vs iPhone" thread. There's no need to make every question a comparison between 2 completely different pieces of hardware.

johncmolyneux said:
Marketplace differs from region to region. You may want to look at changing your region (not via settings - it's documented on xda forums) and then see what else is available.
Personally, I think Marketplace is very good, but needs time to grow. You can't expect it to be full when it's only been publicly available for a matter of months.
Incidentally, this isn't a "HD2 vs iPhone" thread. There's no need to make every question a comparison between 2 completely different pieces of hardware.
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Haha, sorry about that, just hard not to when that's what I've got at the moment. If you're going for something new you do tend to always compare it to what you have already, or at least I do
I didn't realise the marketplace has only been available for such a short time, I just assumed it had been around since the start of windows mobile

There's already so much stuff available from other sources (legal I may add) that frankly there's not much use for marketplace until it has grown

snerkler said:
Haha, sorry about that, just hard not to when that's what I've got at the moment. If you're going for something new you do tend to always compare it to what you have already, or at least I do
I didn't realise the marketplace has only been available for such a short time, I just assumed it had been around since the start of windows mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah - it's in its infancy. It's actually grown a lot recently. When I first went on there there was about 10 apps, but then we found out about the region thing and that opened it up a lot. Also, bear in mind that there's a MASSIVE online arena for windows apps (I'll give you a clue... we're in it now ). The marketplace doesn't have the draw that the appstore has, since so many winmo developers have already got their base set up.

snerkler said:
Hi,
Just been looking through the marketplace and have to say it's rather poor, hardly any apps, and a lot of those that are there are very expensive. Whilst a lot of apps on the iphone are very gimicky, there are apps for just about everything, and there are thousands of free apps. As Microsoft are always competing with Apple on just about every front how come they've let apple get so far ahead in this area? I couldn't even find a basic solitaire came, all I found was freecell, which you have to pay for :-/ Will the marketplace always be poor or is it set to explode?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find it bad as marketplace default installs everything onto the device without the option of changing it. This obviously uses up (the very limited) storage on the HD2.
I've heard its possible to move them however its just a pain to do and tbh I can't be bothered, I'd just get it from other sources .... thankyou google.

Marketplace
Marketplace is Microsoft's kneejerk response to iphone's app store.
I have not bothered to look at it.
There are at least a dozen websites I can think of that have been selling thousands of apps from dictionaries to games for over a decade.
Appstore exists because it is apples monopoly.
I cannot believe the public who fall for such cheap tricks.
Look outside the cave!

Xaddict said:
Marketplace is Microsoft's kneejerk response to iphone's app store.
I have not bothered to look at it.
There are at least a dozen websites I can think of that have been selling thousands of apps from dictionaries to games for over a decade.
Appstore exists because it is apples monopoly.
I cannot believe the public who fall for such cheap tricks.
Look outside the cave!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to both agree and disagree with you there mate. I know what you're saying about the kneejerk - it does seem like Microsoft are just getting in line with Marketplace, but it does have its advantages over regular downlading and installing of things.
For example, after flashing the recent ROM upgrade, I went to marketplace and just clicked "my apps" and "install all". All the apps I've downloaded in the past were downloaded and installed for me, in the background while I carried on setting up other things on the phone.
Things are usually both black and white.

johncmolyneux said:
"A bit" off topic, and hardly a problem for Marketplace. It's only a problem if your phone has low program storage, like the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Slightly off, however if users are reluctant to purchase from there (possibly because of storage issues) then developers would think twice about hosting their applications there (as i would also assume MS charge for the service in some way or form), its also not only the HD2 that has the device storage limitations, quite a few other WM phones are in the same boat.

jrrigney said:
Slightly off, however if users are reluctant to purchase from there (possibly because of storage issues) then developers would think twice about hosting their applications there (as i would also assume MS charge for the service in some way or form), its also not only the HD2 that has the device storage limitations, quite a few other WM phones are in the same boat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, I just used the HD2 as an example, but you're also right about devs not wanting to put their work somewhere were it will not be as appreciated. Well, I can see them having marketplace and an alternative - handango for example, or their own site. It's still a useful place, even if you only look there for things to search for and download (you know, like the sky movie channels )

this is the best site i found for apps www.freewarepocketpc.net

Are all apps from over places resolution dependent? or will they go full screen?

Theguru1 said:
Are all apps from over places resolution dependent? or will they go full screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That depends on the app. They're all different

I think the marketplace will only see significant growth when mobile 7 is released. At the moment there are too many devices with different screen resolutions, processor speeds and other hardware like GPS / digital compass. When mobile 7 is released and the basics will be set out (like resolution) the app developers will know what they develop will be available for all win mo users

[Q] [DEBATE] Why is MS issuing the activation codes?

Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?

I think option 1.

would go for option 1.
only marketshare that would go up is web browser marketshare... they do not sell more phones this way.
what could be a fourth option is that microsoft actually uses the XDA community to test every security system in their OS for loopholes and bugs in an early stage so they can fix all that (without having to look for the problems theirselves) and make sure people are unable to hack their OS when the OS goes into a more complete and final form as the OS is now only in 7.0 and not even released globally.
still option 1 is more likely. they possibly do not have a database with all s/n or imei numbers for all (sold) wp7 phones so they are unable to check.

aenedor said:
I think option 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its Option 1. I remember reading on their support site that on some cases that the verification fails (the did not mention the possible reasons) on any windows phone out of the box.

homer.web said:
...
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely #1. When I called technical support, it seemed like the woman I talked with had done this before and she knew exactly what I was talking about. She asked if I was using WP7 and when I said yes, she even said "Oh, well that's why you need an activation code." I think I read somewhere that even if you're using a WP7 device, doing a hard reset on the phone would cause you to need a new activation code, so it's not out of the ordinary for them to receive calls about it I suppose.
#3 is something I'm a bit worried about in the back of my mind, but the thing is my phone identifies itself as an HD7, so I'm not sure if MS would be able to tell it wasn't. I also don't think it's worth their time and money to look into the issue since in the bigger picture, the amount of users who haven't bought an "offical" WP7 device is relatively small I would think. Another thing is they're now getting money from me, since while I have absolutely no interest in buying a new WP7 device, I'm now buying apps/games and will probably buy some music through Zune (really digging the software).

I don’t think there is a downside for MS at the moment. From what I understand, the HD2 is one of the few (last gen) phones capable of running WP7 and the more people that use WP7 the sooner that apps that are popular for other OS's will be created for WP. More money for MS but more importantly, quicker adoption by the general public because the marketplace will quickly catch up with Apple and Droid.
From my limited use of WP7, it’s a great addition. Different thinking in its design but a distinct lack of business and productivity tools in the marketplace is going to hold me back from a using this as my daily OS.

Not a bad thought
I say #1 for sure, though i fear #3 to be honest ;-)

I am highly impressed with Windows Phone 7, and Microsoft may have realized that someone like me may make a WP7 device their next phone purchase.

1 and 2, please not 3.

It's obviously 1 as there have been several actual WP7 handsets needing activation also - that said, there is nothing stopping them from killing all the HD2 codes at any given time. The IMEI still identifies the phone as a HD2 rather than an HD7 so whenever they feel the need...
They could also go as far as banning your Live account from any future access to Zune and Xbox Live due to this - both the one used on your phone and the one you [may have] given them during your phonecall.

I was thinking #2, but i'm reading more and more people now not getting codes. therefore i guess it's #1.
will be very interesting to see what happens when the update comes along. ?will you dare to try it? will marketplace and apps stop working even if you don't install it?

Why should MS actually have a problem with 5 to 10 000 enthusiats that are flashing WP7 on their HD2's? I don't think that will affect sales of new WP7 phones as the HD2 is not produced anymore anyway.

ill take number 3 for 500.00 Alex kidding
I truly believe MS is going to lock us out from Live services similar to the same issue the xbox 360 with a custom FW have,they do a massive band of xbox 360 systems from xbox live service a couple of times a year.
Although we are not pirating any games such in the case of xbox 360 flashed with custom firmware (and yes some people are going to say some use their flashed xbox 360 to backup their games I truly don't care, save it for your mama) just modifying our phones but it seems to me as one way for them to screw us over.

1 & 2 & - I fear - even 3

homer.web said:
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that Microsoft and HTC along with the rest of them actually read everything posted on these XDA forms.
Why did HTC stop giving out sd cards when everybody started saying there cards were faulty!
Think about it!!!!!!
Russ

Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?

TheOnly1 said:
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. You have hit the nail on the head. HTC & Microsoft like what the XDA Devs do with these ROMs, as it will enhance them to produce better ones. Just think back a few months, they were going to release the wp7 update for the HD2. And then not? Why.. Probably to see if the Devs could do a hack. Also why would microsoft make some tools available to enhance these ROMs. Yes you are correct, they like what's being accomplished.
Its the same with the activation keys, they now have none stop requests!! But they will issue them. Will have to wait and see if the new update works, or crashes it?? I will give it a try.
Russ

A 'carphone warehouse' insider has informed me that they recieved a bulliten stating that some batches of HTC phones were shipped prior to being activated by MS.
MS apparently have a list of new activation numbers for these handsets but may not have a record of any IMEI numbers etc (he wasn't sure how much they knew about the handsets)
Basically it seems that authentication will also fail on some original HTC WP7 handsets (like the HD7) so MS are prepared to issue those with new activation numbers.
Personally, when I gave my IMEI for my HD2 to get the activation code I changed the last 3 digits and they still said 'ah..yes it's a HTC phone, is that correct?', so might be a good idea to base a made up IMEI on a real one.

The way I see it:
This community and the readers are the one who have spent their time to make their phone compatible with Microsoft so they can use MICROSOFT more. They are saving Microsoft marketing money and expanding its share and generate revenue through apps for them.
Microsoft has always been smart with this. They let the piracy of Windows in ASIA to slit through on basis of expansion of market share. Microsoft should know better than anybody else, why most of the planet use windows,
Microsoft has got the label of M$ but in all fairness, they have been nice considering the power and their dominance. They have special discounts for students, their OS provides the opportunity for people to build any system they want at very very affordable costs.
Their Windows Mobile 7 app development kit virtually has made it simple for app developers to develop apps and make money.
(obviously, they win but at the same time, reduces the production budget for start up folks)
I bought 4 copies of Windows 7 PRO x64 through student discount. Who else would give me so much discount to enable me to buy so many fantastic products?
sorry for the rant and fanboyism. I thought it was justified.

ever thought that maybe they don't know about the hd2 running wp7, my friend had to contact ms for activation for his hd7...

The Future Of Windows Mobile

A lot of people have been asking me this very difficult question: What is the future of Windows Mobile? Do you think it will die in a few years(about 2)? And other questions that are about the death of Windows Mobile. On this post I will say about my thoughts of the future of Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I've made this article to say every thing I think about a very polemic topic: The death of Windows Mobile... For sure it won't die in 2 years, it will take a lot more...
The article is on my blog, feel free to share it every where you want, but remember to give the credits
http://developmentcloud.blogspot.com/2011/02/future-of-windows-mobile.html
Leave a comment about the topic and my article. Happy reading
PS: I've made this article at midnight, so it may contain some errors and crazy stuff

Windows Mobile without Sense for sure is pretty crappy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to write this, but your statement is truly ridiculous, skip to very end of my post before you read rest, to understand why i said that.
As a matter of fact, death of wm started when HTC destroyed whole idea of PDA with its feeble, slow, but VERY popular devices(well..PDA's were made for work, HTC changed PDAs into just phones - popularity(money) rose, niche changed and this tendancy progresses now in absurdal way resulting with WP).
They just started to load their bloatware(manila,sense), in EXCHANGE for specs(and dpad/buttons), specifically. I know LOTS of people, that left WM platform just because of that, and even HD2 wasn't able to change that(FAR too late, too ridiculous, too buttonless, to expensive, etc, etc).
XDAdev forums took some part in whole process, imho(you NEED manila, you NEED sense - what a bull****).
HTC seem to be VERY happy after gigantic success of manila's, sense's resulting in destroying of many of old wm software developers(yes, by marketplace,my friend).
Finally, androidz and ridiculous iphone took rest.
95% of cooks i know and i respect would NEVER add manila, nor sense to their roms, as a matter of fact, actually most of them left wm platform already(well, rest bought...hd2, rich happy people mhmm.).
I will stay with my device(PDA with phone module, not HTC), as there is NO software i am using made for android, nor wp(sorry to say, old wm software is totally different league from actual promoted software, all about that).
So all i can say, have fun with your sense, twitter and facebook, but remember, there was something more few years ago, when future looked bright and good.
sorry for engrish, topic not suscribed(i have no nerves for that, you know, i am able to make skin for hs++ with functionality of whole sense, but it takes 143 kb, not 65MB, this is what made me posting my thoughts, i doubt you can understand me).

As I've said, that's my opinion and I respect your point of view

I liked your article very much. i tried lot of OS on my HD2 and the worst one was WP7. it is a ugly clone of iPhone OS. Windows mobile gives you full control of the device and you can customize it as much as you can...
I hope Microsoft will continue development on WM.

adempozhari said:
I liked your article very much. i tried lot of OS on my HD2 and the worst one was WP7. it is a ugly clone of iPhone OS. Windows mobile gives you full control of the device and you can customize it as much as you can...
I hope Microsoft will continue development on WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes.. hope microsoft still continuing it...

Nice article, and it was interesting to hear from someone who has tried out the majority of OS's out there. I got my first WinMo device back in 2005, though it still had WM2003 running on it. Since then, I have been hooked on WinMo. Like you, I also have an iPod Touch and the OS is smooth, but the customisation abilities are next to none (even if its jailbroken). Anyway, in general, I agree with most of what you say.
However, where I differ in opinion, is that I think WinMo is going to disappear sooner than you predict. WinMo hasn't had an update since 6.5 (was 6.5.x ever on a commercially available device?). And even HTC haven't offered an update on Sense since the HD2 came out. Thank goodness for XDA-Devs and Cookies Home Tab! I am sure that through this community, WinMo will live on for as long as there are working devices out there (I'm in no rush to swap my HD2 for anything else). But even now, you can see that Android and WP7 are becoming more and more popular within this community. And outside, in public, if you pull out a smartphone (regardless of model, or OS) someone will ask "Oh is that an iPhone?"
The beauty of the HD2 (I'm on my second HD2 as the first one was stolen) is that it will run many different OS's. So far, I have run several versions of Android, WP7 and Ubuntu. But I always come back to WinMo as it still offers the best for customisation and features. The iPhone for me is only a toy/fashion device that is over hyped and seriously over-advertised (which is why it sells so well- that and Apples nice design).I liked WP7, which I ran for nearly a week. Currently in it's first version it is a bit lacking but it is FAST! And when I do eventually get to the point of having to give up my HD2, I am hoping that Nokia will have a seriously good WP7 device on offer.
I am sure that XDA-Devs will continue to breath life into WinMo and drive it on to places Microsoft never thought to take it. But sad to say, I think WinMo has been abandoned by MS, forever. When did you last see a new device come out with WinMo on board? Even HTC seems to have totally hopped ship to Android and WP7. And it's getting harder to find new apps for WinMo (where as, iOS and Android have zillions of apps to offer - most of them are junk, but there are some gems among them).
Sorry to ramble on, but that was/is my opinion. Bleak, but with very fond memories of what is still in my mind, the best OS.

Copied from a post I made in here but worth an inclusion here.
**********************************************
When you visit the Expansys website here in the UK and filter available phones using Windows Mobile, it only lists six models, the same applies to Phone 7.
If you select available phones by Android, you get nearly fifty, although some of these are duplicated as different bundles, +SD card, cradle etc. The writing is clearly on the wall.
Interestingly, one of the Windows Mobile phones is an Airo Wireless. At over £500, it is a rather expensive item, but it is a waterproof, rubber armoured device that would probably survive being fired out of a cannon.
Post #38 by Tpimp420 in the thread link above, mentions Microsoft have rebranded WinMo as Microsoft Embedded Handheld, in the much larger Windows Embedded arena, and are targeting these types of devices for use in enterprise business applications/solutions.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembe.../overview.mspx
Microsoft has wised up to the fact that there are countless thousands of these things already in use, in warehouses and factories as barcode readers and pick-list terminals, in airlines (as Point-of-Sale (POS) terminals), data capture devices as meter readers, or in the field as customer survey recording devices, etc... etc..... The list goes on and on. These devices may occupy a niche market, but it's still quite a big one, which needs and will continue to need supporting. In the field these devices get a lot of use/abuse, and when they need replacing, with what do you replace them? An I-Phone or Android device? They wouldn't last a week!
WinMo as we know it, might not evolve much further, but Windows CE, and Embedded versions of XP and Windows 7 live on, for new generations of tablet devices. Microsoft has announced that it wants a lot more Windows stuff to run on ARM devices.
Meanwhile, there are still millions of WinMo devices out there, and sites like this, that try to keep them running.