Database Users

WM Marketplace on Xperia?

Hi all,
I've heard a lot about Microsoft setting up WM Marketplace this summer. My main question is:
1. Does anyone know if this will be accessible on the SE Xperia?
From what i've read, the Touch Diamond 2 and Touch Pro 2 have been mentioned. Is this only going to be accessible through WM 6.5?
2. What does everyone think about the WM Marketplace?
I think it's been a long time coming, but maybe its too little too late. I've hated the iPhone since it came out but after spending a week with my uncles iPhone i've grown envious of the applications which are on the market for it. Its maybe not the most configurable or indepth phone but there are so many great and useful applications out there for the iPhone. Eventhough WM has been around for so many more years and there are more applications out there for WM, I think it sucks that WM have taken so long to move forward with applications and finally the UI (WM6.5). There are lots of sites from which you can buy WM applications but why are the quality of the programs the same which we saw 3 or 4 years ago - extremely bad. When you are using an expensve touch screen phone like the Xperia, you want applications readily available and also user friendly. If WM had invested more time and effort into getting developers involved then the iPhone would be nothing today. I just feel my X1 is going to waste without the applications which would really utilize the hardware of the Xperia!
3. What do you think about the pricing of applications in the WM Marketplace?
Currently lots of apps for WM cost stupid prices, upto £20 a pop! I think approaching this again like Apple would be to provide free limited versions of the application and charge you £2 or £3 for the full version. This would mean more people would be willing to try out different apps.
Anyways sorry for the long post!
I love forward to reading your replies!
Nav

1. I heard that the WM Marketplace would be compatible with WM 6.1+ devices. It's just a link to a website? I'm not to sure.
2/3. Personally I think it's a good idea. I never ever understood why cell phone applications should cost $10+. Some cost $20+, which I would never pay for. I feel like if more developers can market their applications to wider audience via the WM Marketplace, this would drive down the cost of applications.

After browsing the website, it looks like most of the items are sold via Handango which is already on our Xperia's. I hope the marketplace will catch on, but I doubt it.

I personally think that Marketplace will catch on for WM users.
You see so many adverts for the apps on the iPhone and i'm sure theres loads of people like me who would like to see some of those apps bought to WM.
It's a case of Microsoft encouraging developers to start making these apps by making a centralised Marketplace where they can sell their ideas.
But is it too little too late?

It is "built-in" in Itje´s 6.5 and is just a shortcut to https://client.marketplace.windowsmobile.com which is not ready.

I think that wm will change a lot with the new market , but im agree with your opinion , maybe the important changes comes to late . ive read that wm will include much iphoneapps in their market and that the market will available for wm6.0 and 6.1 devices too but i think that it also will be possible to upgrade your x1 up to 6.5 . so i can wait , i have to wait -.-

I REALLY hope that wind mobile 6.5 does come to the XPERIA

Is it possible to run iPhone apps on WM? maybe they will bring "iPhone style" apps, but its always going to be perceived as Microsoft copying Apple once again!
Is it possible to eventually run iPhone apps on WM? Through an emulator or other software?

comeradealexi said:
I REALLY hope that wind mobile 6.5 does come to the XPERIA
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WM Marketplace doesn't require WM6.5.
I am pretty satisfied with the current development scene but I think the WMMP will spur a new "age" and I really hope it does.
Microsoft is known for being sloppy though.

WOOOT Android will Leapfrog Iphone

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/57664
Watch out, iPhone—Android's nipping at your heels.
Researchers at Gartner (via AppleInsider) are predicting that the global market share for Google's Android mobile OS could overtake the iPhone's in a little over two years, with Android poised to leapfrog Apple into the No. 2 spot.
That would leave the iPhone in the No. 3 position—right where it is now, behind BlackBerry and Nokia's Symbian OS, according to Gartner. The industry researchers believe that by 2012, Research in Motion (the company behind the BlackBerry) will have lost 7 percent of its market share, causing it to slip into fifth place (behind even Windows Mobile). Android, meanwhile, will get a 12.9-percent boost to become the No. 2 smartphone platform in the world, with Symbian still safe in the No. 1 spot (with a dominating, although dwindling, 39 percent of the global market).
Those are just analyst predictions, of course, and two years is an eternity in the wireless world; after all, two years ago today, we were still getting used to the first iPhone.
That said, I think the gist of Gartner's prediction—that Android is poised to take the wireless market by storm—is spot on, and we've seen evidence of that in the past few months and weeks.
Google's open-source Android platform—which boasts one of the finest touchscreen interfaces out there, iPhone included—came slow out of the gates in fall 2008 with the solid, if uninspiring T-Mobile G1. We had to wait almost a year for the next Android phone in the U.S., but we finally got one this past August with the G1's follow-up, the HTC-made myTouch 3G (also on T-Mobile).
Soon after, what started as a trickle quickly became a flood. Sprint trotted out its first Android phone, the eye-catching, touchscreen HTC Hero, and then T-Mobile followed suit with the Motorola Cliq, its third Android handset ... followed by the Samsung Behold II just a few days ago. On Tuesday, Verizon Wireless announced it would launch a pair of Android phones before the end of the year, while Sprint announced its second Android phone—the Samsung Moment—a day later. Oh, and now there's rumors that Dell wants in on the Android action, with a new handset possible slated for iPhone carrier AT&T.
Let's see, that's ... one, two, three, four ... five new Android phones in in the past few months, with two more—and possibly even a third—due by the end of the year, from two (or maybe three) different manufacturers and three (possibly four) carriers. Some will be better than others, but consumers will have plenty of models (and carriers) from which to choose.
Of course, a bunch of new phones on the market doesn't mean diddly unless someone buys them, and for now, Apple has a solid 10.8- versus 1.6-percent lead over Android in terms of global smartphone market share. But Apple is the only company making iPhones, while the open-source (and high-quality) Android platform is available to all manufacturers and carriers—and from what we've been seeing, they're taking the ball and running with it.

I phone killa!

never touched an iphone and probly never will.

phatmanxxl said:
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
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Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!

unless android devices leap away from qualcomm chipset, i'm not sure about the end user satisfaction
i've tried quite a few qualcomm based devices, some non-smartphones as well, and i have to say they all suck compared to non-qualcomm based devices, sucky multimedia, sucky network performance!
try htc diamond & i-mate 8150 side by side, you'll will know what i'm talking about

X-i-phoner said:
Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
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I got nothing against iphones really. im sure if I got to use one for a day I'd probly like it. But being on T-mobile for over over 5 years I tend to only pay attention to T-mo and At&t phones.
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.

phatmanxxl said:
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
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Agreed, I can also see android doing the same stuff apple is now too.

Back in the early days of the PC when it was Apple vs IBM, IBM won because they licensed their architecture to various manufactures which were then able to make 100% Compatible IBM clones. Apple on the other hand insisted that it keep manufacturing in house, and look what happened.
~20 years later we may see history repeat itself.

You can't assume that apple is going for world domination. Their past successes have been based entirely off the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, which they are likely to hold on to no matter what anyone else does.
The reason for their *temporary* position in the smartphone business is simple; they happened to be in the right place at the right time... and very lucky. A few years ago, palm was in a position to dominate the smartphone market, but they dragged their feet and allowed ugly-as-the-1970's RIM to capture the business user market. Palm *used to* have the business market, and even had a (at the time) very slick and colorful UI with touch screen and more features than you could shake a stick at, and at a time when RIM had clunky black-and-white displays, no graphics to speak of, and that stupid roller wheel. So at a time when a smartphone only really made sense to a business user, palm had devices that were actually quite attractive to just about everybody, but they stagnated rather than taking advantage of what they had, which left them in a very weak state when apple showed up to take the *entire* non-business smartphone market -- right at the time when it started making sense for *everybody* to have a smartphone.
So right before 'droid showed up, the smartphone market was severely skewed... on one hand, you had RIM with all the business market, on the other hand, you had apple with all the pleasure market. Android though, has the potential to be everything for everybody, and by everybody I mean google and the OHA, phone manufacturers, carriers, and even users.
If their computer business is any indication, apple isn't about to drop their prices to anything sensible -- they're still sitting at about FOUR TIMES what it would cost for generic hardware. For whatever reason, this appeals to the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, that, along with the shinyness... MEANING: there are going to be TONS of manufacturers wielding android, COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER regarding prices. Which is a great thing. It means that we can look forward to very inexpensive 'droid devices while the likes of apple price themselves out of the market. Even now, the current i-phony is about $200 CDN more than Dream or Magic -- and don't give any crap that its "better" -- it does, after all, run their crap software.
Somebody said symbian? The fact that the world's cheapest mobile phone manufacturer wants to call their crap proprietary firmware by some name doesn't make it a dominating factor in anyone's opinion. Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of), every provider gives them away for FREE to anybody who signs up for a contract.... since many people already HAVE a phone that they want to use and the carrier forces them into the contract anyways, they get a free phone that may never even get removed from the box. In fact, I have a BOX full of them myself, more of them than any other phone, and yet not a single one of them has so much as been turned on. And yet it counts as a sale in favor of "symbian". So by my math, about half the mobile phones delivered are the "free" ones that come with the contract.

lbcoder said:
Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of),.
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http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online?CMP=KNC-SEM_001&site=Google&device=BuyOnline
The n97 and n900 are sweet phones. Nokias market is dominating in china and japan. Many other places dont get to see all the cool stuff Noika puts out because Nokia doesnt need to advertise it anywhere else. My little bro got the N95 developer edition the day it came out, He still has it and it is still really advanced compared to most phones.

I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.

phatmanxxl said:
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Two things about your prediction...
1. Companies can have more input as to what goes into their business phones.
Imagine my company XYZ starts a contract for the carrier to provide a specific hardware/cellular platform. I can then take that hardware platform and load my customized Android platform onto it. What company wouldn't want that level of control over their business assets? You certainly can't get that with RIM.
2. The carriers, more than anyone, decide what functions a particular phone is marketed towards. From a financial and support perspective, what carrier wouldn't want to have a single OS for all device types and just load in specific apps to cater to specific functions? (Warning: Pie in the sky opinion follows.) Need a business phone? Here is our business suite on our business hardware. Want a gamer device? Here is our game hardware with our game suite. Support would be simplified because under the hood it all works very similarly.
And my prediction...
You will see business class Android devices much sooner than you think. Just because they have not been announced yet does not mean that they are not already in the works. It is a smart move for Google to market towards the prosumers first and businesses later. Let the prosumers work out the kinks and storm the business market later with your well tested and hardened OS. Basically, we (the devs here mainly) are doing most of the work for them... (Queue Adam Sandler) FOR FREEEEEEEE!

The only thing the iPhone has against the G1 is the fact that its thinner, but now we have the MyTouch which runs Android and is also thin...Suck it Apple!

phatmanxxl said:
...and by far the best damn keyboards ever.
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You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.

lbcoder said:
You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
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lol u tell him
but IMO blackberry devices are very visually appealing. i think the sprint hero, samsung moment, moto cliq, LGs first android, samsung glaxy and lite version all look ugly.
and i like some of the apps apple have. i just want to see a completed multiplayer fps on android.

WM is following iPhone and Android is creating a new market. iPhone is too heavy with the iTune and paid apps as well.
Love my Android G2. Open platform is what we need

I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?

The reasoning is simple... pride. And money.
Android isn't just something that is *there to use*. Many of us have a lot of time invested in the platform and it not only feels good for it to be successful, it is also financially rewarding. i-phony is right now the most recognizable mobile phone, so it is naturally the target to BEAT.
chefgon said:
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
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I'm talking about the pearl, curve and curve 2. well, I really like those keyboards, just my opinion. I never had any problems using them. Microsoft/Danger abandoned project pink (supposed to be the new danger os) sidekicks are rumored to be phased out anyway. Also with the major data outage, they have no access to their contacts, t-mail and calender for almost a month now, a lot of those customers I'm sure will move to Android.
and until corporate and business owners start handing out Google phones instead of blackberrys, RIM does have one up over Android

WinMo 7 predicitions

What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.

I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.

MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.

I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.

laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
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No and definitely no.

I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.

OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.

Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here

mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
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Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
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Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
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So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
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If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
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Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
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Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
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Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
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You mean lock-in?

If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello

I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.

Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?

anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!

laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4

@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?

Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!

@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.

freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...

Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...

freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).

Why all the hate for Winmo powered HD2

so i spent a long time trying to decide whether to go with an android phone or hd2
i searched high and wide all over the internet. the only android phone for gsm with a comparable screen is the samsung i9000 which looks like it would come out at about 700 bucks. either that or you take the nexus one/desire which is also in that same ballpark. after all that i went ahead and got the hd2, and i am glad i did. any hardware comparable phone to the hd2 (which there currently isnt because with 1gb rom and 576 mb of ram, beats any other phone)(US version)
After a close look at everything and playing with a friends droid incredible while comparing it to my hd2, the only big advantages i could see to get an android phone would either be the open market place, google maps, speech to text.
Resolution 1:
ok so you decide, hey let me dictate this msg. HERE IS AN IDEA, WHY NOT CALL THEM. (you might even get a chance to dictate it to someone listening).
the only place i can find real use for speech to text is while driving, and in that case, you technically shouldnt be using your phone PERIOD at that time.
Resolution 2:
people keep griping (pronounce gryping) about googlemaps, but as great as googlemaps is, what happens when you lose your bars or do not have a data plan? *gulp* you are screwed. do yourself a favor and get a non-internet reliant gps software (like actual gps devices use), and i also feel that bing does a good job of matching googlemaps.
Resolution 3:
THE MARKET PLACE. I do wish we had a market place, a nice central location where you can find everything you need. But i can tell you this, there are only so many apps you need until you get to the point where you are just trying to justify spending $X on a phone. A friend of mine while justifying how great his mytouch (android) phone is shows me all these apps he has. one app is a barcode scanner, and one app is google goggles. with goggles, the use of the barcode scanner is lost on me. (i think HD2 can also do that though). why go through all the trouble of opening your camera, looking for the barcode sending the item over the internet and all that when you could either just search for the barcode numbers (which funny enough is usually under the barcode) or searching for the items.
granted there are some nice apps like the statefarm pocket agent app out there, and most reputable companies(like banks etc) prefer to release apps for the iphone/android (my bank allows nexus one and iphone users take pics of check and automatically deposits the money into your account) but lets face it, most apps that people will need on a daily basis are also on winmo. An app that is used once or twice a month, while nice to have doesnt seem like that much of a big deal. Its kinda like getting a standby physician. Plus after a quick skim through the top apps on the marketplace, you find that 9/10 of all these apps are games (go figure), and even though they might be nice for your when you have to wait in a line or something, wouldnt a much larger screen be nicer to watch part of your fave tv show instead?
the hd2 has quite a few flaws, but the they are being fixed. Even though app development for windows 6.5 might go down when winmo7 comes out. I still like the HD2. I do not even think i would be switching to winmo7 since if i wanted an iphone, i would go get an iphone, i am not on facebook, twitter or any other social networking site.
only real reason i switched from my att tilt (the first one) was because the screen was so small and it had started to fall apart.
winmo by default sucks ass, but has limitless potential, where else would you find sms spammers, or american idol spammers (lol)
I'm not knocking android either, it has its perks and it would be nice to see what android is like on the hd2, but it makes little sense getting a winmo phone when you already knew you wanted an android phone, and then cluttering the boards asking for android. my winmo phone does everything i need it to do, so i am happy with it, i see my stocks, have my navigation from igo, have my alarm clock, IM, and calendar. ITS JUST LIKE BUYING A LAMBORGHINI AND COMPLAINING IT IS NOT A FERRARI.
only real sore point i can see no way around is flash coming to android. would have been nice to have flash but i guess i just have to take what i get.
Guys wasnt the main reason we fell in love with winmo because of the limitless possibilities?

Could not agree more, and don't forget the selection of UI's available and
the ability to configure your phone as you like it to be. Less than a month ago,
after researching Android and with the option to upgrade to the HTC Incredible
on Verizon vs the T-Mobile HD2, choose the HD2 with no regrets.

I agree too
I am really tired of all the people going i ditch my android phone or iphone for this and blah blah blah it windows mobile people what dont you get you can actual do something with this phone i love windows mobile after the years i know i know how could of like windows mobile with this will sense UI did the work to make the HD2 the best phone i had so far. I had a iphone it was okay I spent so much time fixing it to how i like it and boy it was not that easy at times lol but after a while I got the hang and did it but the apps please I stop using it for a while i would play with it for like a week and then i go boring android another story i never had one but i played with it and i was like wtf is with this crap please i don't want a phone that is set to make it easy to use because i was use to setting things to too and i know if i had an android the first thing i would do is flash it just to get to flash it lol but let get to the point if you want a android then get a android stop complaining about the windows mobile. If you want a iphone then go for it but sop you complaining about windows mobile too lol. I love my HD2 because there is a lot of nice roms and many possibility. And I forgot to mention the huge screen lol

The hard thing is trying to make sense of why a winmo phone is not more like iPhone or Android.
Do I buy Microsoft's arguement that they write the OS, but do not control the hardware that a Mobile Operator and a device manufacturer (OEM) put it on, or do I believe that someone is chasing their own tail?
I have the Nexus One, the Cliq and the MyTouch 3g. All are nice phones that I was perfectly happy with. I also owned an earlier version of the iPhone...and yes...my opinions then...and now...it was awesome...even with any faults. Yet, when presented with the HD2, my Nexus One now sits dusty and on my table.
'Good Hardware' is the key here. WinMo on the PURE...sucks. it lasted 48 hrs in my house. The Hardware package around the HD2 makes WinMo work...better. XDA makes WinMo better. So what if they take parts from here...and there....and produce great stuff....shouldn't that be ok.
I think some body in Redmond is watching. Windows Phone 7 has the potential to be GREAT...and I want one. A winmo OS with Zune...and Zune marketplace...on a 1300+ ghz hardware device....makes my toes curl. I saw a couple of models on PDADB.net the other day. I think that Microsoft, controlling more of the hardware...is the right idea. people do NOT realize how much Microsoft Windows Mobile suffers from Mobile Operator spec and boreware ...until they get to XDA and REMOVE that stuff. Right now I have the EnergyRom on my HD2....If I show it to ANYONE....they are surprised but interested. This is the same for any other ROM I may run. EXCEPT...the stock TMO rom...WP7 is supposed to remove that option....
BUT.....but....a winmo based Marketplace...hmmmm....it would be nice. Don't ya think the Apple ads...."We got an app for that"....are cool? With my androids, I could find anything I wanted,....at that moment...for my Nexus One....at the airport....is the flight on time????? Marketplace...tap tap touch...no...flight is delayed by 20 minutes. Try doing that on Windows Marketplace....you can't. Where's the nearest seafood restaurant....on Android...tap tap touch...get directions.....try doing that on Windows Marketplace...you can't. Or, my favorite....touch button..speak...Starbucks near here...get directions. It's not how many apps you can have....its about getting the apps you may want...when you want them....
But Android (or apple) marketplace did not keep me from the HD2. 5 minutes after holding the phone...I knew I made the right choice...XDA proved that anything can be done with the phone. Now, my buddy with the iPhone....says ....Wow...I can't do that with my iPhone. I just tell him...maybe there's a app for that...
After all....Windows 7...was my idea....maybe they'll listen to me about Windows Phone 7 too....

+1 on all of you.
Explain that to most people is really hard. WinMo is Vast, limitless but at the same time also complicated. I can live with that, the OS is so Fun to tweak and tinker. My earlier desicion was HD2 or Milestone thanks god i choose HD2 otherwise i only had free apps to have fun with and then get bores while with HD2 you have tons of Custom ROM just for start.
I think WM7 is too limited and controlled in comparison to WM 6.x and try to be more like "the other -read Android/IPhone" Not sure if i will upgrade but only time will tell.
I dont want to talk about Iphone, it is just boring.

I dont regret buying the Hd2. Windows mobile is nice for customization.
I just get tired of the layer skinning. My biggest problem with windows mobile is how different the text messaging looks when you get away from the sense ui
I had a g1 and the screen is just to small for me. Love android but hate small screens

well most people want to get these phones and they want it to do everything there is in the world to do. well i say that ITS JUST A PHONE!!!!!!!! sure i have a htc hd2 don't get me wrong its amazing on what it does and what it can do but remember this that its a phone. people want phones to do everything like gps, bank stuff, music, youtube, facebook, and other stuff. I don't really care on what the phone can or can't do, its a phone and its screen is amazing for seeing vids and besides i want a phone for my entertainment, text, calls, and well since it has internet of course use it. Either way The htc hd2 is a multitasker if you ask me and it is one of the most impressive phones out there and thats why i LOVE it.

try me.. its the next best device regardless if its wm 6.5
very solid points addressed! I use Garmin mobile XT, with 2011 maps 3D moving maps that were released in late April. the maps and program take 2 gigs on my 16 gb sd card. It rarely uses data other than to locate gas prices and weather. POI and everything else is stored to the phone. It has the speech step by step direction. I find it to be annoying, and set it to silence. The radio is really powerful, the satellite are found in seconds... unlike my Tp2 that takes around 10 minutes locate.
cookie Ht has a huge advantage on Sense... why even give windows credit other than better, stable drivers and 6.5 start menu vs 6.0 list..... Sense 2.5 covers to whole interface of the hd2 and paints a beautiful device. i have greatly enhanced my skins on sence, keyboard and dialer.
people complain cuz its not intuitive first time out of the box like the iphone that has beautiful eyecandy UI and they feel good knowing a child could use it. nor do they want to spend a cent more for programs to do actually what they want. its a shame. i really dont think the camera should matter, since their not meant for profession use. just a quick snap shot of a memory, all these camera phones in the dark are terrible. im happy for once, these are equipped with a 3.5 jack for music. i could ask for more. but we know that some people cant to be pleased nor willing to make it better by talking to the community to give us what would be it better.... their lose... our treasure... worth more than in the weight of gold. hehe

ok i''ve owned the g1 and them mytouch 3g. ive rooted these phones n played with them to their extreme . now i own the hd2. trust me the Android operating system is very very good also windows os, but there is two things that will make the windows os outstanding over any os ...1 i think that wm have the most apps than any other os in Apple n what they should do is have a complete make over of the wm market n have every app there is n categorize them according to what os version you have....2 finishing touch to this is creating a new os system which its UI is modern n very attractive because to be honest it feels like im running windows 5 on laptop built in 2010...im not fund of Wphone 7 becauseuUI to me isnt that customizable but one thing i do love about it is the gaming. if this is implemented onnn the hd2 you will have close to perfect mobile os ever

I still have a lot to learn about operating my hd2 – but coming from a Palm (680 and Centro) I really am happy with this phone. I wanted to stop carrying around my media player (Archos 604), my thumb-drive, a small fm radio and wanted to have a gps, real internet access , and a phone that I could listen to books on through my Bluetooth while in boring meetings. I feel I have it all in the hd2.
I picked up one of the many iphone books the other day and went through it to see what I would use on the ipone and couldn’t find any, that I would want to do, that I don’t have on the HD2. I’m not knocking the ipone, everyone I know who has one loves it – I’m just not that into texting, games, fart apps, facebbok, twitter ,or any other social media.
It is aggravating though, to walk into Best Buy and see 50 docking stations, 100 cases/covers, etc. and nothing for the HD2.

if you really wanna see how android is gonna fare on the hd2, just check out your local sprint store and check out the htc sprint evo 4g.
that being said, i own both an hd2 and two android handsets that are rooted.
what i like most about win 6.5 is the ability to customize it as much as i can a rooted android phone i.e. overclock the cpu (i just found an app for it), custom theme, save apps to sd card, play flash videos etc etc.
however, i do feel that it is a bit outdated and is more complicated to use. takes a bit of a learning curve v. android os, which is more simple to use. i see tons of potential for windows mobile 6.5 but it's a damn shame that microsoft is moving on to a more closed platform with windows mobile 7.
long term, i will probably head back to android in that regard due to updates and that it just keeps getting better and better (upcoming froyo update and then the gingerbread update which will allow for the saving of apps to sd card, etc)
engineer14 said:
so i spent a long time trying to decide whether to go with an android phone or hd2
i searched high and wide all over the internet. the only android phone for gsm with a comparable screen is the samsung i9000 which looks like it would come out at about 700 bucks. either that or you take the nexus one/desire which is also in that same ballpark. after all that i went ahead and got the hd2, and i am glad i did. any hardware comparable phone to the hd2 (which there currently isnt because with 1gb rom and 576 mb of ram, beats any other phone)(US version)
After a close look at everything and playing with a friends droid incredible while comparing it to my hd2, the only big advantages i could see to get an android phone would either be the open market place, google maps, speech to text.
Resolution 1:
ok so you decide, hey let me dictate this msg. HERE IS AN IDEA, WHY NOT CALL THEM. (you might even get a chance to dictate it to someone listening).
the only place i can find real use for speech to text is while driving, and in that case, you technically shouldnt be using your phone PERIOD at that time.
Resolution 2:
people keep griping (pronounce gryping) about googlemaps, but as great as googlemaps is, what happens when you lose your bars or do not have a data plan? *gulp* you are screwed. do yourself a favor and get a non-internet reliant gps software (like actual gps devices use), and i also feel that bing does a good job of matching googlemaps.
Resolution 3:
THE MARKET PLACE. I do wish we had a market place, a nice central location where you can find everything you need. But i can tell you this, there are only so many apps you need until you get to the point where you are just trying to justify spending $X on a phone. A friend of mine while justifying how great his mytouch (android) phone is shows me all these apps he has. one app is a barcode scanner, and one app is google goggles. with goggles, the use of the barcode scanner is lost on me. (i think HD2 can also do that though). why go through all the trouble of opening your camera, looking for the barcode sending the item over the internet and all that when you could either just search for the barcode numbers (which funny enough is usually under the barcode) or searching for the items.
granted there are some nice apps like the statefarm pocket agent app out there, and most reputable companies(like banks etc) prefer to release apps for the iphone/android (my bank allows nexus one and iphone users take pics of check and automatically deposits the money into your account) but lets face it, most apps that people will need on a daily basis are also on winmo. An app that is used once or twice a month, while nice to have doesnt seem like that much of a big deal. Its kinda like getting a standby physician. Plus after a quick skim through the top apps on the marketplace, you find that 9/10 of all these apps are games (go figure), and even though they might be nice for your when you have to wait in a line or something, wouldnt a much larger screen be nicer to watch part of your fave tv show instead?
the hd2 has quite a few flaws, but the they are being fixed. Even though app development for windows 6.5 might go down when winmo7 comes out. I still like the HD2. I do not even think i would be switching to winmo7 since if i wanted an iphone, i would go get an iphone, i am not on facebook, twitter or any other social networking site.
only real reason i switched from my att tilt (the first one) was because the screen was so small and it had started to fall apart.
winmo by default sucks ass, but has limitless potential, where else would you find sms spammers, or american idol spammers (lol)
I'm not knocking android either, it has its perks and it would be nice to see what android is like on the hd2, but it makes little sense getting a winmo phone when you already knew you wanted an android phone, and then cluttering the boards asking for android. my winmo phone does everything i need it to do, so i am happy with it, i see my stocks, have my navigation from igo, have my alarm clock, IM, and calendar. ITS JUST LIKE BUYING A LAMBORGHINI AND COMPLAINING IT IS NOT A FERRARI.
only real sore point i can see no way around is flash coming to android. would have been nice to have flash but i guess i just have to take what i get.
Guys wasnt the main reason we fell in love with winmo because of the limitless possibilities?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Each to its own. Now we have HD2, iPod Touch, iPhone 3GS, and iPad. We also got an Android phone in the family. Instead of pitching them against one another, we make them complement and work together. For example, we have the only mobile data plan we need on my iPhone - beside all the goodies it can offer, we use it as a wifi router for all our mobile devices.
The main reasons I bought HD2 were its beautiful/huge screen, and the xda-developers forum. I don't intend to upgrade to WM7 even if it was available.

The same kind of people that complain about WinMo and think their iphone is so much better are the kind of closed minded people that cant think for themselves, try something new, and actually embrace and learn it.
The iphone/ipad are created for one thing mass consumer media consumption, and apple getting a cut of every itunes/app store purchase, with the iphone having a phone built in. It's definitely a very smart business for apple, but not one that I want to be part of, since im quite capable of figuring out how to get apps, and media on my WinMo device without the need of itunes or an app store
Im sure like many others here happy with their WinMo Phones, you have probably been using WinMo phones for a long time already, and some like myself have been using WinMo before it was ever on phones and just a PDA. I still have my 1st WinMo PDA, a toshiba e750, amazing for how old it is, the processor in it is almost as fast as most of last years WinMo phones. I used to BT tether the PDA to my cell phone to be able to do email and web browsing, then finally got a T-Mobile MDA shortly after it came out to merge the 2 devices into one, though at a performance hit, because of the lower processor speed.
These phones are quite literally like having a desktop PC in your pocket, with android also being similar experience from what i've read, though i've not actually owned an android device to play with
I've been fascinated by "palmtop" portable computing for quite awhile, with my 1st such device being an HP 200LX palmtop running DOS 5. I still have that palmtop sitting on my desk and it works still too! I always wanted to get one of the palmtop format windows mobile devices (windows ce), but couldn't justify the expense at the time having just graduated from HS and in college. I also remember the laptop format WinMo devices.
I also find it fascinating to find windows mobile/ce in devices that people would have never expected it in, nor complain about because they cant see the underlying OS. an example is the car stereo I have, a Roadmaster VR3 VRVD640G. There are hacks for it that somewhat let you get into the underlying OS.

I recently recieved my Hd2 and I love it. It is my first WinMo powered device. I owned a G1 (Dream) and while I really liked it and Android, I think that WinMo 6.5 is a much more customizeable and powerful OS. The level of complexity is alot higher, however. That is what I think turns people off of WinMo. I am enjoying the undertaking of learning this new (to me) OS.
Edit: I do think that in time, as it matures and with devices such as the N1 and the Desire, Android will be a quite powerful OS.

you know im so happy to see that their are others out there that see past winmo on the HD2 and are taking more consideration for the hardware specs...ive had the gsm htc hero,the nexus one,desire,Nokia n900 etc. and honestly, i was completely let down by all of those devices,but,thats just been my experience with them. even though the winmo isnt as snappy as android or the iphone..its still is kick ass phone...not downplay winmos but they are working on the kernals for linux and WM7 and considering most devices,we have one the better devices to date and iam very content with wm6.5 and 6.5.5

Well symbian and windows mobile had been the most hated OS in the US and maybe windows mobile been hated all over the world. I think its a nice OS but I think windows slept on the development, I think it became so critical how much they slept on the OS that alot of people here knows the in and out of the OS with out been hired or took any training about the OS which to me that amazing and probably never seen in any other OS in the world. not to mention HTC took sense and did their part as well but you never see windows team developing anything. I almost didnt buy the HD2 for the simple fact microsoft decided to develop KIN and windows 7 series instead of giving us a better support.

HEY I DISAGREE......... but i must say thank you for the info u gave me more info then any carrier could give the hd2 is a bigger & faster device but the differences u pulled the hd2 also hav hd2 has googlemaps it also has text to speech wat people people fail to see and realize is that the andoid market allows u to demo the product winmo doesnt which is suck and thats why u hav guys like me that searches the web for the product for free its out here it just cost but most of the apps that the andoid market hav winmo also has its just a matter of searching for it. my job on here is test multiple software to see if it can run and work together without issuse and or bugs and to run on the hd2 without error its crazy i go to a site find software and its free then find it at another site that charges for it .... now i dont think i can list the sites because of forum rules and regs but there out there waitin on u but u hav googlemaps with buzz also microsoft myphone and microsoft voice command

ryan562 said:
if you really wanna see how android is gonna fare on the hd2, just check out your local sprint store and check out the htc sprint evo 4g.
that being said, i own both an hd2 and two android handsets that are rooted.
what i like most about win 6.5 is the ability to customize it as much as i can a rooted android phone i.e. overclock the cpu (i just found an app for it), custom theme, save apps to sd card, play flash videos etc etc.
however, i do feel that it is a bit outdated and is more complicated to use. takes a bit of a learning curve v. android os, which is more simple to use. i see tons of potential for windows mobile 6.5 but it's a damn shame that microsoft is moving on to a more closed platform with windows mobile 7.
long term, i will probably head back to android in that regard due to updates and that it just keeps getting better and better (upcoming froyo update and then the gingerbread update which will allow for the saving of apps to sd card, etc)
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wait it out and u will be able to run both the drod and winmo on the hd2 without problems

ryan562 said:
however, i do feel that it is a bit outdated and is more complicated to use. takes a bit of a learning curve v. android os, which is more simple to use. i see tons of potential for windows mobile 6.5 but it's a damn shame that microsoft is moving on to a more closed platform with windows mobile 7.
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I personally wonder if WinMo is as dead, atleast from a MS prospective as people are saying. Yes WinMo is used in many consumer phones which is what I see WinPhone7 replacing, but WinMo is used in MANY other places still.
Like my example of my car stereo in the post lastnight.
Symbol uses it in the "LRT" devices that many stores use for stock tracking. You see target employees carrying them all the time. hell APPLE stores used them with WinMo until they managed to hack a card reader onto their iphone.
The Symbol price check scanners you find at many retail stores are WinMo based. I've seen them crashed at walmart with the floating WinMo keyboard on top of their price check app.
I've seen symbol Pin entry/signature capture/card swipe terminals at stores like JC penny and the now defunct circuit city that i highly suspected to be running windows mobile due to the sound tones played while using the touch screen, they were the default for WinMo.
I highly suspect that Symbol is a huge WinMo customer of MS.
I've also recently been to the Seminole hard rock casino here in Tampa and noticed on some slot machines that the little screens just shows small ads had WinMo intenet explorer windows that had apparently got stuck while loading the next ad and you saw the default IE could not load page screen. I have no idea if the entire slot machine is WinMo based or just certain functions like that screen.
Yes i understand from a consumer prospective its pretty much dead because there will be no more releases for phones and app development is likely to die off as time goes on.
Also in alot of these cases it is more technically Windows CE, which windows mobile is a subset of, but its quite literally all the same code base, just a matter of what modules the OEM loads in their distribution
God knows how many other places it's running, you never know till you see one crashed or notice a few telltale signs. Some ATMs used to be Win98 based. Yes I quite literally saw an old style Win98 BSOD on one of my credit unions's ATM's years back. it was a Diebold machine. Would not surprise me if alot of them are WinMo or embedded XP now.

Is Windows Mobile an application desert?

I'm fairly new to smartphones, having had the Tilt2 for only about six months after about four years with a Treo 650, but one thing seems to be increasingly true about Windows Mobile phones: If you want the greatest capabilities, you just have to get an iPhone, not a Windows phone.
It just drives me crazy that all the good apps are iPhone. Deposit checks to Chase Bank without deposit slips or going to the bank using your iPhone camera AND THE CHASE DEPOSIT APP FOR iPHONE! Netflix, play movies on iPhone or trailers on Windows. AT&T U-verse download and play movies...on your iPhone. These are three fairly new ones that come to mind, but it is this way for seemingly everything. Even TCM's new movie schedule app is for iPhone, Droid, and Blackberry...Blackberry for crying out loud...but not Windows.
It's another 18 months before we can upgrade for a reasonable price from our two HTC Tilt2 phones to iPhones. If Microsoft wants to increase its market share, it needs to offer subsidies to developers. Windows 7 Mobile is not the answer...we don't buy computers for the sake of the operating systems. It's for the programs that run on the OS. Isn't it the same with smart phones? They all make calls and take bad photos. It's the other stuff that is the difference.
Am I wrong?

Youre absolutely right, however with over 300,000 downloads of the windows phone 7 SDK already, I think the next version of windows will have plenty of apps to enjoy. Microsoft is also wanting developers to release a free demo of all software, so we can check out any app to make sure we want to buy it. With the integration of XBOX Live, playing games online with other windows 7 users and the focus on gaming, WP7 is going to be awesome. UI definitely looks great and there are rumors that the day the marketplace opens up there will be over 100,000 aps submitted and available. Things really are looking up for microsoft phones. I know I'm getting one!

MPlayer: will let you stream hulu and bbc and others.
Movies for rental: Check out Amazon Unbox. It's part of amazons video service, where you can rent and buy movies and tv shows. You can have the settings set to automatically download a mobile version of the movie or show you are getting. Though I've never tried it with a rental. I usually just buy tv shows for 99 cents. Downside is it is not streaming, but download to pc and then transfer to your phone. Another option is to use
It's true that some of the very new apps will probably never see a WinMo 6.x port since the platform is switching to WP7, but calling it an "application desert" is a stretch. I have over 100 different programs installed to my phone, with everything from musical instrument simulators to various business tools and games. There's a huge number of free programs as well as a lot of high quality paid-for programs. Check the "apps worth installing on the tp2" for a good sample of the free applications you can get.

bowserb, as you said, you are new to smartphones, so with a lot of respect i want to share something, my experience with smartphones is a little more than yours, motorola q, blackberry, htc 8125, samsung epix, samsung blackjack, htc touch and know i have a tilt2, and beleive me its much more phone than the iphone
windows mobile and iphone are two differents worlds, windows is more for professionals and business people, focussed in getting the job done, excellent in word, excel, pp, (create and edit), emails capabilities, outlook and exchange sync, etc,etc, then as a second priority is the music, videos, etc,etc
on the other hand iphone is the phone for teenagers, to play, to think they have the ultimatte machine (go to a high school and teel me if dont see al least a hundred of them in 110 kids), you need aplications for everything, let me explain, when you are to compare a phone you have to do it from the box, which one is more capable without going to itunes or marketplace, there the iphone dont have a chance, in others words if you dont jailbreak the iphone its almost useless, my sister and my brother have them, so i know what im talking about
if you want real games and real tv, you have xbox, playstation and a flat screen

MS doesn't care about its market share for Windows Mobile 6. Mobile is a tiny part of MS's business, completely insignificant compared to sales of PC operating systems, Office, etc. It remains to be seen how much MS will even care about Windows Phone 7. With WP7, its possible they can make money off the mobile market like Apple and Google have, but that remains to be seen. It would require a whole new level of support and financial commitment than MS has shown in the past. MS has proved they can make money from a new market (XBOX), if they see it as a viable potential opportunity and throw enough resources at it. But if they go into half-hearted, they will fail now that Apple and Google already have a substantial hold on the market.
Yes, commercial developer support for WM6 is drying up with WP7 coming in the next couple months. But there is still a huge user supported base, many will argue. If you want more support from MS and other commercial developers, its not going to happen. They have all moved on.
The underpinnings of WM6 is just too old for developers to make backwards compatible applications. All the WM products up to version 6 are based on the same Windows CE code from 2000. So you can see why there is little desire to make an application for this outdated OS, when there is a modern updated version coming out in a few months.
And don't forget about Android. The iPhone is all the rave for the uninformed. But if you want a OS that has a huge user community, and tons more customization and function than the iPhone, then Android is what you want. Unless MS can really turn things around, I'm almost certainly going Android for my next phone.

Since you want an Iphone so bad.....
Here is my two cents on an iPhone.
Yes, I agree with you it has a lot of nifty apps, in various categories. On of the other side, a "phone" is for making calls. I have 3 cousins, and a few family friends who have Iphones, they hate the "phone" part of it because it drops calls, and lags on the phone screen severly. I know many people who have smartphones who send internet to their iPhone's to do what you were talking about with the Chase banking things and stuff. The new iPod Touch has a camera and mic if I'm not mistaken.
My dad used to be subscribed to a PocketPC magazine, and they ranked iPhone top of the line for apps, but worst for phone usage. Even worse than regular phones (ie non-smartphones).
Whatever you want to do is up to you though.

App desert?
Thanks for the comments, guys. I had no idea that WM6.5 was an update of Windows CE. Last time I used that OS was on a Casio PDA...a really long time ago. (Note for the younger crowd: A PDA was smartphone without the phone.) About Windows 7 mobile--will I have to buy a new phone to get it, or will there likely be an upgrade available from HTC?
MS Office. I can't imagine iPhone Contacts being a clumsier, more limited application than on the Tilt2, where contacts show up multiple times and all with m next to the name. Word and Excel are OK, but I almost never use them, even though they are indispensable on my desktop computer.
Dropped calls on iPhone. I suspect that is an AT&T problem, not iPhone. My Tilt2 drops calls all the time, as did the Treo 650 before it and the Sony/Erikson before that. Isn't that the reason people are clamoring for iPhone on Verizon?
iPhone is for teenagers? How do you know I'm not one? And even though I'm not, why should they have all the fun? No I don't really care about music and movies on my phone, but the ever growing list of useful and practical apps for the iPhone would seem to make that platform the choice of all age groups!
Anyway, this reply is mostly rhetorical. In 18 months, it will be time to survey the smartphone landscape.

redpoint73 said:
MS doesn't care about its market share for Windows Mobile 6. Mobile is a tiny part of MS's business, completely insignificant compared to sales of PC operating systems, Office, etc. It remains to be seen how much MS will even care about Windows Phone 7.
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They better start caring, mobile phones are going to be replacing PC's for many folks in the future.

txrider said:
They better start caring, mobile phones are going to be replacing PC's for many folks in the future.
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They do. They are investing billions into WP7.

bowserb said:
About Windows 7 mobile--will I have to buy a new phone to get it, or will there likely be an upgrade available from HTC?
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WP7 will be for new phones only, and an official upgrade is out of the question. The Tilt2/TP2 does not meet the stiff hardware requirements mandated by WP7. From the processing power all the way to the hardware button layout, it doesn't meet the new WP7 standards. Wouldn't be surprised if the smart folks on XDA will get some form of hacked version to work on Rhodium, but propably won't be quite the same experience as on a phone that runs WP7 natively.

redpoint73 said:
WP7 will be for new phones only, and an official upgrade is out of the question. The Tilt2/TP2 does not meet the stiff hardware requirements mandated by WP7. From the processing power all the way to the hardware button layout, it doesn't meet the new WP7 standards. Wouldn't be surprised if the smart folks on XDA will get some form of hacked version to work on Rhodium, but propably won't be quite the same experience as on a phone that runs WP7 natively.
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Even the high end HTC HD2 will not get an official upgrade to WP7, it has been said by Microsoft and HTC....
If the people on here can do it...that's another story...