Database Users

WinMo 7 predicitions - HD2 General

What do you think WinMo 7 is going to be like? Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
I think it would be fantastic if they released a Beta version for the public to test like with Windows 7, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, which makes me nervous.
Hopefully the Zune team has a say in the design, cause they seem to have their **** together.

I'm guessing it's going to be a combination between WM 6.5, Android, Iphone OS and Zune. Honestly I'm hoping for something revolutionary.

MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.

I think a beta test would be positive for them anyways, especially to beat down all the rumors and to give people a reason to wait/want those WinMo devices, guaranteeing the availability of WinMo phones by the time it releases to the world in final form.
If they don't act swift in these times there would be no manufacturer left to distribute to and it would pretty much be at the brink of death (= even more pressure)..
However, once they bring out a public beta, IPhone OS and Android might actually get inspired by it and anticipate before it is even released, making it less spectacular.
Yep, there are two sides on this.. I hope it'll be as revolutionary as they are implying.

laserviking said:
Do you trust Microsoft to not screw it up? Do you think HTC will really give us a free update for our Leos?
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No and definitely no.

I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
All of the "iPhone killers" died because of the following reasons:
1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
I just hope MS doesn't market WM7 as some cheap alternative to iPhone. WM7 needs to be a great OS GUI-wise but also offer services equivalent to iTunes on a super-powerful hardware platform with no less than cutting edge specs. It appears MS is on this path but I don't know how great the end product is going to be. My fingers are crossed.

OMG can we please close this? Totally useless speculation.
If you have no clue, just don't post. I know a lot but I won't tell you anything, just wait for MWC and stop the silly speculation.
EDIT: WhyBe, your post is actually very intelligent. That's why I'll give you a hint: Trust MS to do exactly what you expect
(though not all is perfect)
Oh and @Shasarak: I told you before, but I will tell you again: Ruling out any possibility without actually having a clue is stupid
You always pretend to know what you're talking about, but you actually know nothing at all. And, you know, drawing conclusions from nothing at all is just silly. Much more so than those speculators who at least admit that they've got no clue.

Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here

mark0326 said:
MS didn't mess up Windows 7 so there's no reason to think WM7 will be any different.
Think positive.
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Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
WhyBe said:
I hope MS knocks it out of the park. But, I don't understand how they are going to leverage all of the legacy apps and their ugly interfaces and some new-age GUI.
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Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
WhyBe said:
If they decide to kill off all the old stuff and start fresh, then it technically isn't Windows Mobile anymore because none of the 1000's of WM apps will be compatible. Maybe there will be some sort of compatibility mode for the old stuff?
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So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
WhyBe said:
[/B]1) No iTunes. Nowadays, services are more crucial to sucess than hardware specs. Direct-to-device music, movies and books is a killer feature.
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If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
WhyBe said:
2) User-experience less than iPhone's. The iPhones killer feature is it's fluidity and lightning fast response of it's GUI. You can't hate such speed.
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Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
WhyBe said:
3) Single form factor. Developers know how their apps will behave whereas WM apps have to cater to the various types of WM phones. Screen resolution, graphics acceleration, d-pad, optical mouse, fingerprint sensor, accelerometer, touchscreen, keyboard ? All of these options hinder software development for WM.[/I]
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Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is the only company that can battle Apple on all three fronts right away. For services they have Zune, Bing mobile, for gaming XBox, Windows Live/MyPhone, Exchange, Office, Windows Desktop. All of this needs to be thoroughly incorporated into its WM7 platform.
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Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
WhyBe said:
services equivalent to iTunes
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You mean lock-in?

If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
^^^^^zune marketplace says hello

I certain hope there's no 'itunes' or 'single form factor', unless it's going to be their Zune phone, which I won't be buying.
I'm probably not who the new phone OSes are designed for. I just want to be able to copy files directly to it, use it for what I need, don't want to share data with them, don't really use social networks.

Spike15 said:
Basically this.
Also, Microsoft hasn't messed anything up since Windows Vista.
Microsoft is on a hot streak right now, and I don't see any reason that should end anytime soon. Ballmer even beat Jobs to the punch with tablets.
And not only did Ballmer beat Jobs [to the punch], he punched harder too.
The only thing Apple et cetera has going for them at the moment is populism. People like Apple and they don't like Microsoft, probably because Apple tries to make tech appeal to the lowest common denominator, whereas Microsoft makes tech appeal to the enthusiast, while giving the lowest common denominator sufficient attention that they'll be at least able to passably use whatever product is in-question.
Look at Windows and Internet Explorer.
Microsoft is positively the master of backwards compatibility.
So is Windows 7 not Windows because 16-bit Windows 3.1 apps won't run on it?
Not saying at all that Microsoft will kill of backwards compatibility. The Windows Mobile family is just too new for us to see backwards compatibility die off -- at least if Microsoft sticks with their current paradigm.
Windows was backwards-compatible with Windows 3.1 for over 17 years.
If you're insinuating that Microsoft should do anything like iTunes, then I suggest that you just get out right now. iTunes is an example of everything a device experience shouldn't be. The ActiveSync paradigm is brilliant -- an application to sync your device if you want, with your device retaining the ability to act on its own.
iTunes isn't about user experience, it's about locking you in, and that's the biggest strength Microsoft products in general have -- you can do whatever you want.
Look at Windows 7. They're knocking the ball out of the park on GUI design these days, just look at the massive steps forward from 6.1 to 6.5, and now to 6.5.3.
And, they're taking their time on Windows Mobile 7. I'd rather wait and get something great than something that's rushed out of the gates.
Again, I suggest you just get out right now. Go buy your Apple products and enjoy your "single form factor". Microsoft doesn't play this game. You buy Windows, you don't buy a Microsoft computer, you buy Exchange, you don't buy a Microsoft mail server.
Their biggest strength is the fact that they don't have a single form factor. They do what they're good at -- software design -- and let the hardware designers do what they're good at.
Again, if you want Apple-like lock-in, go play with an iPhone. I doubt Microsoft is going to go this route, and if they do, they'll lose me as a customer. The strength of Windows and Microsoft products is the fact that you're not locked in. You're given an operating system and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
If you want someone to tell you how to do what you want to do with your device, rather than merely giving you the choice, go bend over for Steve Jobs.
Get out.
You mean lock-in?
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Well Said. The only problem is that people really beleive what apple says.
If one said RIM & blackbery i would sort of listened. but iPhone! it doesn't do multitasking it's not an OS, it's a frimware
I do believe that WM7 is gonna be something that we didn't even think about. i don't know, maybe bringing another dimention to the scrolling? Vertical + Horizontal + Depth? that would be cool.
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?

anaadoul said:
btw, why do we think that WM7 will be blue?
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lol! Blue always comes to my mind when I try to imagine WM7. Maybe because windows xp, vista and 7 are by default blue?
I wonder if WM7 will actually be black! like the zune hd interface. will be really cool!

laserviking said:
Freyberry you are one wound up dude. It's pretty normal to speculate on this kind of thing and hope that there will be change for the better. Given WinMo's awful track record and Windows recent push for usability everyone is speculating how it's gonna be.
"I know a lot but I won't tell you anything"... I'm getting flashbacks to the school playground here
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Yeah school playground... lol, grow up, little child. Maybe I'm not allowed to tell you something? Ever thought about this simple fact?
I already told you too much. Just re-read my post, you'll see it contains a LOT of info.
And NO, I do NOT work for Microsoft, nor HTC.
About all the speculation: It's OK if you speculate what it will/won't be, but what is very annoying is when
a) people complain about things that are pure speculation
b) people pretend they know something by using words like "definitely", despite that they actually know nothing
@anaadoul @mightymn It will be blue/grey
(but only by default, cause it's very customizable)
Btw. those are worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC0cxzLhFqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfJZzeSZ0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0typyfPG_4

@freyberry
In the absense of better information I'm happy to accept that you know 'stuff' and logically, if you do know 'stuff', you probably oughtn't to talk about it.
So in that spirit, if you were to randomly throw a dart at a calendar in the interests of picking a date - entirely at random - when the wider community might start seeing pre-release or beta versions appearing, what would be your hunch for where that random dart might land?

Nice topic, it is fun to hear what everybody expects from WM7
I am very confused about WM7... one day I am all happy and can't wait for WM7.. the next day I am not so sure about it anymore... MicroSoft can really go either way IMO.
At the best:
- Brilliant new OS: Nice looking UI, smooth, stable, NEW features the other OS's don't have, good services like Zune, Xbox Live, etc. But most important...
A GOOD APPSTORE.
If all goes wrong...:
- Minor update of 6.5.3, some small UI changes, Zune, Xbox Live.
-------------------------
In the end if I just look at my HTC HD2, and think very clearly: what is missing? I think of the following:
- HTC Sense is nice, but it just does not come together with WM. I would like it to become 'one'. HTC Sense can also get a little bit slow sometimes. I would prefer a HTC Sense in the styl of HTC Hero, with the widgets.
- I want perfect stability of the OS: no more crashes, no more lagging.
- I want more App Support. I want a decent official AppStore. I don't need 140.000 apps, but I want it to be a succes. So not like the current 'AppStore' which is dead.
That's it. Zune and Xbox Live support are not even so important to me. These 3 points I mentioned are a MUST for WM7. Now that I look at it, the iPhone has all of these 3 points. I guess in the end I can not escape the fact that the iPhone OS is brilliant. That plus the awesome hardware offered by the HTC HD2 will make it a beast.
And regarding if HTC will give us the update for free: I hope so, I thing the chances are 50/50. But even if they want some money for it, I will pay it. Up to 15 euro, not more.
Come on Microsoft, show us you can, like you did with Windows 7, Xbox 360 and Zune!

@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.

freyberry said:
@Gustopher
Nicely put, but unfortunately, I can not give you any satisfying answer.
I have no access to pre-release/beta versions, therefore I can only hope that something will leak soon. I don't think there will be a public/official beta.
After MWC, they will give more people access to the software, which will increase the probability of a leak.
Let's hope we won't have to wait until HTC releases an official upgrade, cause you know how long that usually takes.
WM7 definitely looks good (and yes, I may use the word "definitely", cause I know it). But Microsoft is doing a "great" job at scattering confusing/contradictory pieces of information, thus I'm just as anxious as you to see all the pieces come together.
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Click to collapse
Understood and thanks. If I were to try to paraphrase, your - let's call it a hunch - elements of the OS are coming together but it's not quite at alpha/beta stage...but could be relatively soon.
So maybe waiting is the best tactic...

Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
ppcgeeks said:
-At the Mobile World Congress event on February 15th, 2010, Windows Phone 7 will be unveilved, although at this time plans are only to unveil the user interface of the new platform . Specific indepth functionality of the device will most likely not be shown.
-The User Interface is based upon codename “METRO”. It will be very similar to the Zune HD User Interface with a complete revamp of the “Start” screen. The UI is “Very Clean”, “Soulful” and “Alive” [<-- That I can confirm.]
-Unfortunately there will be no Flash support at the get go as there was not enough time to implement these features.
-Windows Phone 7 will only support application installation through service based delivery. (i.e Marketplace). Application installation via storage card will not be possible.
- No Multi-Task support. Applications will “Pause” when in the background, however will support notifications via push notifications.
-Marketplace will now support “try before you buy” as well as an API
-No NETCF backwards compatibility. This means the original rumor of no backward compatibility for applications holds to be true. That being said, there are high hopes of porting the NetCF to the newer platform easily.
-Microsoft is confident that devices will be ready by September 2010
-Full Zune Integration
-Windows Mobile Device Center will no longer be used. Zune software to take over syncing via PC.
-OEM Interfaces will not be allowed to run on the device. Say goodbye to Sense UI / SPB Mobile Shell / Point UI / Infinity, etc, etc
-Full XBOX Gaming Integration (Gamer tag, achievements, friends, avatars, merchandising, etc)
-Full support for social networking
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Click to collapse
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...

freyberry said:
Waiting is certainly the best tactic. However, I fear some of the most important questions will not be answered at MWC, at least not officially.
(I don't mean the UI, I mean core functionality/services/compatibility etc., cause that's what I don't know about and have lots of questions - that's the pieces I want to see come together)
Ah well, let's turn this into a wild speculation thread, shall we? Just let me get the popcorn first....
...OK, here we go:
Source: http://www.ppcgeeks.com/2010/02/06/...ndows-phone-7-details-emerge-from-the-depths/
Flame on! Hahahaha...
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i don't like that!
let's hope it's not true! i have always loved WM because it's so open.
no .net cf?! no way, this will mean loosing the whole developers community! i disagree with you i'm afraid
@freyberry
how can you tell all this? i'm close to MS here in my region and they didn't say anything and not willing to, notice that they support WindowsPhoneMiddleEast Community which i lead (look at my signature).

Related

Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.

ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/

I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open

The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.

Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.

Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.

give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.

Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...

So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes

Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S

How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!

Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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Click to collapse
nice one !

Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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Click to collapse

mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806

@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.

do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...

"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).

Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.

@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.

i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines

jbanga86 said:
i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130

anything short of 5 pages and this thread will be a failure!

dwizzy130 said:
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd agree if it was for ALL comments on the awesomeness OR failure of WP7s.

lol all im saying is if we wanted a zune we would buy a zune!
seriously ever since the thing came out they been talking about
making it a phone and now this is new news?
psht! they have a few ideas on point though like the whole
finger friendly thing, but to me its like buying a new house
with thin walls or move into a comfy old brick home
yeah the lighting fixtures is up to date but what about the foundation

I love the new interface. I love the accent that is being layed on the text. From what i've seen it's like browsing through a magazine. Well thought, because in the end, mostly it's text with what you're dealing with on this type of devices.
No really, i'm very thrilled about the new design. And with the new silverlight based development framework I think that we can expect more useful applications that are focussed on what they are supposed to do and less on the user interface.

The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.

seed_al said:
The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7S, No cutomizability, locked eco system, no multi tasking.
Dont u think it defeats the purpose of WinMO.
I hope it will be a big failure. The reason i got WinMO instead of anything else is because of the power of freedom it has. WP7S killed that.
and yes, its just as hyped up as iphone before it was release. NOthing more. Its not revolutionary, its just pretty with no brain.
The start or home screen may look pretty, but its functionless. U have to scroll a lot to see info. I think the novelty will wear off faster then the iphone.

Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.

seed_al said:
Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not only that, they way they made WP7S Backwards incompatible also means MS just killed WinMO6.5 and previous versions.
Developers are abandoning WinMO 6.5 1 by 1, started with adobe , then Skype, and many more to come.
We were waiting for Flash 10.1 anxiously, seeing the beta version test on OUR HD2, but in the end, they discontinued their support for WinMO.
As Steve Ballmer Said " OS are nothing without Developers, Developers Developers , (he goes on saying developers many2 times)
And that is the fate of WinMO 6.5. With no Developer support, Our BELOVED OS, is becoming NOthing.
To tell you the truth,ive been a loyal WinMO user since 2000. I relied heavily on its apps (esp medical applications,helps me a lot with my work as a doctor and manage my patients data). Now ive heard from a friend in skyscape,a major medical apps developer for WinMO, that they will also discontinue support for WinMO. Now this really saddens me really.
For a phone(expensive phone in fact) which i bought just 2 months ago, will no longer provide me new apps, new updates to my medical apps, no flash (A BIG WASTE , With our huge gorgeous screen,we cant even load flash content!).
I envy those using android, updating their OS constantly, and getting apps like google earth,goggle and etc which we were once promised to be given,now all left is a dream.
MS has killed our beloved WinMO. It is a sad news for all of us. WP7S is more like a curse then a blessing.

I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.

Espentf said:
I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But WP7S has better hardware and a better UI. So, IF you buy a locked down crap system, you really should get a WP7S phone.
But of course, you shouldn't buy a locked down crap system.

seed_al said:
But WP7S has better hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.

Shasarak said:
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.

seed_al said:
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The strange thing is that if the WP7 is really a closed down system without multitasking it would not need such advanced hardware for it. The need of so much memory and processor power is precisely because of the multitasking when a user can run several applications simultaneously. Otherwise you can have a good user experience with much less memory and processor power like in case of the iPhone.

This thread will be better if it has a poll on it.
I think it is hyped too. I really prefer the HTC interface and customization freedom of the HD2 against the new design of windows mobile 7. I have my device so customized that I can access every feature with a few clicks (AE button plus and multiple button press) I dont see that coming soon in WM7, you need to scroll a lot with your finger to actually go anywhere. And what botters me more is that it looks like "multimedia oriented" and not "bussisness" oriented.
If they close the platform like Apple they will loose al the support of the comunity. I really think WebOs look more interesting as a new modern platform (but they still lack variety of applications)
If there is no oficial WM7 update to the HD2, I really dont care. (we know the chef here will be realising it and even with a newer rom)

What not being said may be the most revealing.
Other than a few picture and limited stories from just a few people (MS insiders) what do we really know about WM7?
With all the stories about what WM7 cannot do, you start to wonder if there is something that we are not being told about the new OS.
For instance:
* MS Voice Command has not had any real updates for a number of years. Is there a (much improved) new version in WM7?
* Wireless/Blue tooth set up? (better setup etc?)
* Haptic interface,
* camera and other elements used in a more interactive way for interface?
* New/updated/Improved version of transcriber?
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!

No option for both? I think bits are great and bits are over hyped.

1) Maybe it´s going to be the same story as with Win Vista: faulty, crappy, resource-hungry, no benefits. Good for the basic user that only surfs with IE, listens to music, watches videos, e-mails and uploads videos on YouTube
2) NO software is uncrackable ! Wonder what the experts here on XDA will do with WM7 ! When I received my HD2 in November it wasn´t much more than my Touch HD, a little bit faster though. Now with all the geniousses here in this forum it is a rocket of a PDA that spared me the investment into a Sony Vaio P
3) I eagerly wait for the HD3 at the end of the year, wait this time some months ´till I buy it. First I will see what the leading programmers here will do with it, then buy it and flash it with a cooked ROM from this forum. And maybe this cooked ROM will be rebased on WM6.5.x or a hacked WM7, able of multitasking.
4) When I will buy HD3 (or whatever it will be called) I buy the hardware (1,5 GHz Qualcomm, ROM/RAM etc.) and I want it to be FAST. Like with Win Vista the hardware will be eaten up by WM7-software giving no speed advantage. Like with my Sony Vaio TT92 which is equipped with WinXP and which is much faster than most of the desktop-PCs for MY use of the Vaio (no gaming, prof. medical work) I will rely on the experts here to cook a ROM that´s faster than lightning for the APPS, ´cause I don´t care if the basic software is WM6.5.x or WM7, TF3D, HTCSense or what, I want my preferred apps to run fast and smooth w/o hangup.
Conclusion: trust the people here, THEY will make the best outa the new HARDWARE, not HTC, not Microsoft ..........

gm_fisher said:
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid that's exactly what they are doing. Everyone - including MS - is green with envy for the zillion$$$ Apple are making with teenagers and "wanna-look-cool" adults who spend their time on social networks or mms-ing pictures. Little brains, fat wallets. No surprise manufacturers and carriers LOVE them and would do ANYTHING to please them.
MS had a decision to make: continue to fight on two fields (business and dummies) and continue losing to RIM on the former and to Apple on the latter? Or instead concentrate on one, playing the cards (like hardware) where the competition has always been behind?
WPS7 is just that.
Do I like it? Hell, no.
Would I have done the same thing had I been in Steve Ballmer's shoes? Probably yes.
Will their strategy succeed? Probably no. Unless Steve Jobs screws up big-time...
gm_fisher said:
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at Win7, I think they learnt that crappy-buggy OS's should never ever make their way into the market. However keeping looking at Win7 on other PC's makes me wish I will still have the option for XP when my laptop replacement is due in June.
I don't think MS will be stupid enough to allow WPS7 to be crappy-buggy like Vista, but most likely WPS7 will be as alienating to business users as Win7 is, leaving them in fact with two choices:
a) BlackBerry (for most)
b) Android (for power users)
Actually there is a third one for the (very few) adventurous: cooked WinMo ROMs.

http://wmexperts.com/wp7s-apps-no-s...background-multitasking?utm_source=feedburner

double post

If this is true:
Microsoft you are ****ing stupid idiots
ruining the best platform!!!!!
****!

Someone inside MS decided to put down their market shares. Interesting...

Hehe. Everywhere I look for WMP7S news I see Apple...why is that?
They kinda turned me out of it as well. Android here I come...
I can emphasize with the comments given on the news page!

Well then I am either off to Android or staying with 6.5.X. My real hope is that, even if MS devotes 75% of their mobile resources on WP7s, they devote 25% to WM6.5.X. It would totally make sense for them to use WP7s to compete with Apple, and WM6.5.X to compete with Android.
I'm waiting for a statement regarding MS's level of support for 6.5.X. If you think we're pissed, just think how companies like SPB and Resco feel.

Good grief!!! MS obviously think the reason for Apple's success is a lack of multi-tasking, restrictive applications portal and no external storage...
This will sink WM7 (before it's been floated) - and open the doors to Android, if it's true

paul c said:
Good grief!!! MS obviously think the reason for Apple's success is a lack of multi-tasking, restrictive applications portal and no external storage...
This will sink WM7 (before it's been floated) - and open the doors to Android, if it's true
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it will make the platform grow actually.
User experience simplified and simple to understand!
Only those geeks like us can go and **** ourselves.
We are minority anyway.
You know, the real business model is not to GIVE as much as possible,
but tie as close as possible to manufacturer,
so everything is under control.
No free market anymore. They will decide where, what and why..
I sincererly hate this,
and if this is true Microsoft: suck my ****.
Sorry.
Is there any platform left for a CHOICE????

Yep. No WM7 phone for me. I will run 6.x builds as long as M$ supports and updates them, and then move to Android.

my expectation is as follows...instead of ppl stuck with old devices requesting a wm7 update rom....this forum will be full of wm7 peeps requesting a dual boot rom booting wm6.5 !!

I just saw swipe right(or left?) application menu and gained lots of fate into WM7, but after this i just hope that this is not true.
Cant wait for Xperioid to get at everyday usable state, so i can start getting used to android.

"they devote 25% to WM6.5.X. "
that sounds like an inc compared to the efford or lack of it they been giving it these last few years

darkhalf520 said:
my expectation is as follows...instead of ppl stuck with old devices requesting a wm7 update rom....this forum will be full of wm7 peeps requesting a dual boot rom booting wm6.5 !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously. I think you are exactly right.

http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14366#idc-container
Maybe we should not believe it?!

doministry said:
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14366#idc-container
Maybe we should not believe it?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is too early for totally negative comments in my opinion. Let's wait and see - I still hope WM7 will be a great step ahead.
Please Microsoft, don't shoot yourself in the foot again! Copy-Paste is a MUST!

There have been a lot of reports like this previously. This one basically just seems to provide more detail.
I believe that as soon as I am off of WM 6.5x I will go to Android for my next device. I am not desirous of an iPhone or an iPhone clone. Microsoft is boldly going where Apple has already gone. I like that they are trying to keep the market from fragmenting, but having an app approval process seems to prevent the need for there to be such restrictions on multi-tasking. The iPhone is a non-starter for me primarily because of the lack of multi-tasking.
I think they would have been wise to offer a "lite version" for people who are looking for an iPhone (why wouldn't they just buy an iPhone?) and a "deluxe version" for those who want to have features. Or perhaps they did and 6.5.X IS the "deluxe version."

funny how one of my hobbys simply gets swiped because all the brainwashed mainstream ****tards want "iphones" and ms cant take how much apple earns.
funny actually. i bet the next windows version for pc will do the same mistake.
we are not allowed to have our fun anymore, everything gets controlled. it should be the other way around, people should learn how a computer ****ing works maybe it would raise the overall IQ.
actually i dont give a **** about the iphone ******s but i want my windows mobile device ffs.
sry if that was to rude but it really pisses me of to just read that in a future prediction.

one thing i don't understand why the hell they have an office hub with all the office applications and multiple exchange emails and twitter and facebook applications and NO copy paste this is... i am if it is true... this is really stupid..
I foresee the stock of android to sky-rocket in the next months and if the iPhone will have multitasking then me an "Apple hater" i might consider an iPhone to buy or most likely an Android (That rumoured HTC Supersonic sounds very sexy) or the Nokia N900.
Seriously i can't believe the news.. this is a major blow to many people here in this forum.

i actually kinda see this coming already. Microsoft is gonna use the WP7 as a direct competitor to iPhone. Pretty smart, marketing wise, because they can then target and select bigger segment, the kind of everyday-not-power-user thing.
Which leaves us, the power users, to go and play with the customizable 6.5.X.
It sucks, but i can see their point. Microsoft always, and i repeat, always target global domination. They cant stand seeing Apple starting to dominate the field. Android? they'll let it face off against the 6.5.X

mr_sheen said:
i actually kinda see this coming already. Microsoft is gonna use the WP7 as a direct competitor to iPhone. Pretty smart, marketing wise, because they can then target and select bigger segment, the kind of everyday-not-power-user thing.
Which leaves us, the power users, to go and play with the customizable 6.5.X.
It sucks, but i can see their point. Microsoft always, and i repeat, always target global domination. They cant stand seeing Apple starting to dominate the field. Android? they'll let it face off against the 6.5.X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But frankly, it's a dumb strategy. In a few years mobile "phones" will probably have dual-core 2 GHz processors and nasty battery life. Multitasking won't be a problem, and more and more people will be realizing how much they can do with their phones.
The only way this would make sense would be if MS either (1) plans to evolve WP7 to a multitasking platform or (2) plans to ramp up support for WM 6.5.X as a major platform in the future.

I just tired on fighting with this piece of crap.
In fact, I just surrender and just leave all the Windows Mobile 6.5 platform behind.
The X2 is a marvell Hardware device, but it's Software support it's a shame. I even think that SE Android support will be the same: low quality updates, no information.
I swear i'll never buy or it recommend a Sony Ericsson product again.
On the other hand, the Windows Mobile platform is really outdated and unsupported. Low quality apps, even for Twitter and Facebook (Twikini is the best out there and really is a shame compared to the iPhone or BlackBerry), no more Skype. Do I really need to tell you the Internet browser experience? Windows Mobile has NO future at all.
When the iPhone appeared in 2007, it was a shame operating system, we all agree. But, in 2010, iOS 4 is from another planet. There's no more excuses. Everyone should see it.
I'm affraid that Windows Phone 7 will take a couple years just to catch the progress on the Apple iOS. It doesn't have Copy/Paste, no multitasking, so...
I'm selling this piece of crap X2 that never got to work at a basic quality level, I'm jumping for good of the Windows Mobile world and I'm buying an iPhone 4 in the coming days. No need to find stupid arguments in defense of WM, a piece of crap operating system in our days (2010, not 2000 or 2002).
Cheers and sorry for my english (of course! an Spanish X2 user that never got his desired MR2 GENERIC_ES Update: f**k Sony Ericsson.
Jolo.

Jolo_ said:
I just tired on fighting with this piece of crap.
In fact, I just surrender and just leave all the Windows Mobile 6.5 platform behind.
The X2 is a marvell Hardware device, but it's Software support it's a shame. I even think that SE Android support will be the same: low quality updates, no information.
I swear i'll never buy or it recommend a Sony Ericsson product again.
On the other hand, the Windows Mobile platform is really outdated and unsupported. Low quality apps, even for Twitter and Facebook (Twikini is the best out there and really is a shame compared to the iPhone or BlackBerry), no more Skype. Do I really need to tell you the Internet browser experience? Windows Mobile has NO future at all.
When the iPhone appeared in 2007, it was a shame operating system, we all agree. But, in 2010, iOS 4 is from another planet. There's no more excuses. Everyone should see it.
I'm affraid that Windows Phone 7 will take a couple years just to catch the progress on the Apple iOS. It doesn't have Copy/Paste, no multitasking, so...
I'm selling this piece of crap X2 that never got to work at a basic quality level, I'm jumping for good of the Windows Mobile world and I'm buying an iPhone 4 in the coming days. No need to find stupid arguments in defense of WM, a piece of crap operating system in our days (2010, not 2000 or 2002).
Cheers and sorry for my english (of course! an Spanish X2 user that never got his desired MR2 GENERIC_ES Update: f**k Sony Ericsson.
Jolo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****!
If you are on MR1 the experience is miserable indeed!
And WM 6.5.2 was bad.....
Pity because MR2 and WM 6.5.3 is a heaven tu use.
Much better interface in every area, modern and smooth.
X2 itself on MR2 is smooth too including great screen sensitivity.
There are issues of course but I would not like to have any other OS...
iPhone 4 may be great but it's limitations are too much for me. And it's boring.....
As for Windows future I think you may be wrong.
WP7 looks really promising.
Good luck anyway!!!!

doministry said:
Holy ****!
If you are on MR1 the experience is miserable indeed!
And WM 6.5.2 was bad.....
Pity because MR2 and WM 6.5.3 is a heaven tu use.
Much better interface in every area, modern and smooth.
X2 itself on MR2 is smooth too including great screen sensitivity.
There are issues of course but I would not like to have any other OS...
iPhone 4 may be great but it's limitations are too much for me. And it's boring.....
As for Windows future I think you may be wrong.
WP7 looks really promising.
Good luck anyway!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but I already using MR2 Spanish Vodafone, without personalization.
I just reset the phone at the end of the calibration screen, and I've installed all cabs from US MR2 ROM manually. The ROM is faster, ok, but stability problems remains.
And also, MR2 not resolve the primary problem with Windows Mobile: stupid old, pointless and bad mobile operating system. That's why I'm switching. I could buy an HD2 or other WinMo Device, but why?
There are issues of course but I would not like to have any other OS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the point. At this moment, iOS 4 DOESN'T HAVE problems. That's the very big difference.
Cheers.

Jolo_ said:
I just tired on fighting with this piece of crap.
In fact, I just surrender and just leave all the Windows Mobile 6.5 platform behind.
The X2 is a marvell Hardware device, but it's Software support it's a shame. I even think that SE Android support will be the same: low quality updates, no information.
I swear i'll never buy or it recommend a Sony Ericsson product again.
On the other hand, the Windows Mobile platform is really outdated and unsupported. Low quality apps, even for Twitter and Facebook (Twikini is the best out there and really is a shame compared to the iPhone or BlackBerry), no more Skype. Do I really need to tell you the Internet browser experience? Windows Mobile has NO future at all.
When the iPhone appeared in 2007, it was a shame operating system, we all agree. But, in 2010, iOS 4 is from another planet. There's no more excuses. Everyone should see it.
I'm affraid that Windows Phone 7 will take a couple years just to catch the progress on the Apple iOS. It doesn't have Copy/Paste, no multitasking, so...
I'm selling this piece of crap X2 that never got to work at a basic quality level, I'm jumping for good of the Windows Mobile world and I'm buying an iPhone 4 in the coming days. No need to find stupid arguments in defense of WM, a piece of crap operating system in our days (2010, not 2000 or 2002).
Cheers and sorry for my english (of course! an Spanish X2 user that never got his desired MR2 GENERIC_ES Update: f**k Sony Ericsson.
Jolo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jolo_ said:
I'm sorry, but I already using MR2 Spanish Vodafone, without personalization.
I just reset the phone at the end of the calibration screen, and I've installed all cabs from US MR2 ROM manually. The ROM is faster, ok, but stability problems remains.
And also, MR2 not resolve the primary problem with Windows Mobile: stupid old, pointless and bad mobile operating system. That's why I'm switching. I could buy an HD2 or other WinMo Device, but why?
That's the point. At this moment, iOS 4 DOESN'T HAVE problems. That's the very big difference.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but I don't get "stupid, old, pointless OS".
For me WM is the most sensible OS.
Maybe you just don't like it? There's nothing like what you described in WM 6.5.3.
Besides some small issues with stability.
As for iOS 4 - you must be kidding.....

doministry said:
Sorry but I don't get "stupid, old, pointless OS".
For me WM is the most sensible OS.
Maybe you just don't like it? There's nothing like what you described in WM 6.5.3.
Besides some small issues with stability.
As for iOS 4 - you must be kidding.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why I'm kidding?
Well, this is just a debate, don't worry. I appreciate your help.

IMHO wm is the best os for mobile devices, it is flexible and it has sofisticate software. You have to approach like a computer, a PC, where hardware is different from software. Apple makes hw and sw, Blackberry makes hw and sw. Sonyericsson makes hw (the project?) and Microsoft makes the os. When Htc made HD2 (capacitive) or Diamond2 (resistive) or others, it used wm and made great devices. If x2 doesn't work the cause is se. I had a lot of wm devices but only x2 is such a disaster. I only hope for a good chef

Jolo_ said:
Why I'm kidding?
Well, this is just a debate, don't worry. I appreciate your help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I just don't believe in OS without trouble.
Personally iOS has things I just don't like at all
and it also has many kinds of issues, you can be sure of that.
But I basically wish you luck!

vitc said:
IMHO wm is the best os for mobile devices, it is flexible and it has sofisticate software. You have to approach like a computer, a PC, where hardware is different from software. Apple makes hw and sw, Blackberry makes hw and sw. Sonyericsson makes hw (the project?) and Microsoft makes the os. When Htc made HD2 (capacitive) or Diamond2 (resistive) or others, it used wm and made great devices. If x2 doesn't work the cause is se. I had a lot of wm devices but only x2 is such a disaster. I only hope for a good chef
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A phone is not a PC. You control a phone with your fingers and with your hands, and maybe with a small keyboard. But, pointers, stylus and other devices are outdated. The capacitive display are an very high innovation, and it will be present on every mobile device on the market.
That's why Windows Mobile fails, and that's why is discontinued and Windows Phone 7 was created. A 'front skin' update (like WM 6.5.3) isn't just good enough.
On other hand, WM6.5 could be a good operating system, but... there's no apps. All developers had go to other platforms. WM has no future.
You can see Skype dropping all support for WM. The only 'decent' app for Twitter, Twikini, had no see Updates since December... That's 7 months ago! The Facebook app has also outdated.
The only developer that has some interest on WM is the own Microsoft, updating Office Mobile to... a 'new' version that trully doesn't contain any new features. Even, the Windows Live suite for mobile is really outdated and always worked really bad. Instead, MS prefer to develop a new Windows Live official suite for the iPhone.
Windows Mobile has no future. It's the true, and all we must accept it. No more devices will appear with this OS. And now, we doesn't have a good number of applications. It's time to go.
Cheers.

Just thought I would drop by and say hello
Since my move to the X10, I am very happy indeed
They achieved root this week and this is going to open up a world of goodies
As far as IOS 4 is concerned, LOL! Don't be fooled by the Apple advertising campaign. Just google "iPhone security issues" and you will see what I mean. Besides, they just added features that should have been there in the first place! Nothing new, but they sure make the world think "Oh gosh! look at this shiny new phone! It's got all these cool new features!"
What a freaking joke!

mtechfan said:
Besides, they just added features that should have been there in the first place!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they have done it, finally. So, what are the complaints now?
A really honest question: What feature is missing on the iOS now that we REALLY use day by day?
You can say:
- There's no 3G Videocall... I don't have ANY contacts with a video phone, and even, the first ones sure will be iPhone 4 owners. And, by the time that videocall be a REALLY standard, it will be the APPLE Standard.
- There's no Bluetooth Send and Receive files... Why? We have Internet, Mail, and the last time that I sent a file via BT was 2 or 3 years ago. BT transfer is unreliable, slow and unnecessary.
- SD Card, why? There are a 16GB and a 32GB version iPhone 4. Probably it will be even a 64GB version on the future.
- Removable battery, why?
And that's it.
Really... There's no more excuses. A year or two ago it really was. But not today.
Even, Windows Phone 7 will appear with a lot of cons: No Copy/Paste, No multitasking... I insist: it will take a couple of years to catch iOS and even Android. And, of course, there's an App Market that it will no show really interest: Skype dropped support, Mozilla too.
And even, the most important and the most relative thing to this thread: Apple really CARES about the Software support on these products. Users of 2008 iPhone 3G can Upgrade to iOS4, a two years ago phone.
What happened to the Xperia X1?
What is happening to us? We can even use officialy the accelerometer on our phones.
Some we're complaining about even cannot upgrade to MR2 by a clean language-localized version.
Do you think that the iPhone cannot notify a received SMS? Please...
This war is over. There's a winner, iOS, and even contenders, but they're still fighting: Android, BlackBerry, even WP7 in the future.
Windows Mobile? nope. It's dead, really.
Cheers.

hahahaahhaha

Jolo_ said:
You can say:
- There's no 3G Videocall... I don't have ANY contacts with a video phone, and even, the first ones sure will be iPhone 4 owners. And, by the time that videocall be a REALLY standard, it will be the APPLE Standard.
- There's no Bluetooth Send and Receive files... Why? We have Internet, Mail, and the last time that I sent a file via BT was 2 or 3 years ago. BT transfer is unreliable, slow and unnecessary.
- SD Card, why? There are a 16GB and a 32GB version iPhone 4. Probably it will be even a 64GB version on the future.
- Removable battery, why?
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha!
These are quite essential things on my device.
You say a bit of a bull**** here mate, sorry.
Bluetooth? It's marvellous. Instead of stupid sending email (?!)
or beeing forced to use iTunes I send files Phone -> PC or PC -> Phone. The best way.
Somebody is NEXT TO ME - so why the **** I should send EMAIL when
I can immediately send whatever by BT?! Funny...
SD card - well, first I can transfer content to any device without PC or whatever. I can also extract all the files from it even if my device is broken!!
And use the card for multiple devices, man that's easy to understand.
Removable battery?! ****. So when my iPhone battery is broken
I have to SEND my personal device to the company and WAIT? A joke?
Also when it freezes completely - no way to turn it off...
I can replace it with new...
Buy your iPhone, probably WM is just not for you.
WM is still superior to any iCrap anyway.

I suggest you another key to read: Microsoft has won the battle with Apple in computer war for a reason that isn't "oh great!" but... cheap. Apple has success with smartphones for a reason that isn't "oh cool!" but... marketing. Iphone (a good device anyway) has caught the market of cellphones users, not professional user who prefers to sync outlook or use a portable word processor.
Smartphones ARE computers, little computers, if you don't understant this one it's difficolt to explain the rest. Mouse and pens are everything but outdated, I makes graphical works and it would be difficult to use... fingers to work (...waiting for the Iphone with physical keys )
Anyway, it's important you have found a device suitable for your needs, the perfect one doesn't exists.
Bye
P.S.: Apple was not born with Iphone, it is as old as Microsoft and they are old partners so don't think Windows is dying...

I guess its all just based on preferences
because in my opinion iphones are ****. hardware is outdated, UI is ugly, and phone is virtually locked (memory, kill switch). yeah it may have a Capacitive screen which supports multi-touch, but why? multi-touch only forces you to hold the device with two hands (ex. pinch zoom hold phone in one had use other hand to pinch) which i i would just prefer a double tap, plus the Capacitive screen requires you to use the fat part of your greasy finger (yes my hands get sweaty) where the resistive touch screen allows you to use both the fat part of your finger, or you fingernail/stylus for more accuracy. as for web browsers, according to some test i just ran (which included 8 browsers, safari, IE, skyfire, fennec, android 2.2 browser, uZard web p, opera mini 5, and opera mobile 10) safari tested almost as badly as IE and fennec (opera and android 2.2 browsers performed the best) and once more iphone will NEVER support flash, and they act like HTML5 is the future and is all you really need, but hell i still play farmvill, bloons tower defense, and watch youtube videos with skyfire with practicly no lag. Oh and the lack of hardware buttons on these modern phones... why?
moving on to windows mobile 7, looks very promising. app integration is well planned, the hardware on these phones will blow aways iphones, the panoramic UI is just damn sexy. trust me it'll be great, from what i saw (youtube videos) it will be an iphone killer
and as for your accelerometer issues you may want to check out this forum http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=681982 if you keep your phone, it fixes some of the bugs sorry for typing so much i have a lot to say. when ever i have an issue with winmo i find a fix, if something is wrong with the iphone they are stuck with it until the next update.

It may be just me, but I absolutely don't get this thread. Jolo_, if you've decided that you want to switch your mobile OS, fine, but why do you have to bother writing anything in here? You think you'll enlighten us by your opinion? There are many different ones and what makes you think yours is the best? Suit yourself and let everyone else suit themselves. Also, stick to the people that share your opinion, who we're obviously not. I believe there was much more than enough pointless arguing all over the Internet, it's time to let it go. Yet again, it might be just me...

totally agreed. sony [email protected] is a crap. sigh...

See what you want to see.
If it's not dead yet, Windows Mobile life ends in a three or four months, when WP7 arrives.
Then, all our crappy WM phones will became useless, pointless (no new applications, no new developers). And gets worse: impossible to re-sell because NOBODY will want a Windows Mobile phone.
Think about it: we even haven't HardSPL for the X2 yet. And of course, this is never going to happen because the X2 is so locked that anyone isn't really working on it.
It's now or never: get rid of this crap or you'll stay the same and you'll lose money.
Cheers!
P.D.: Last post, sorry.

Jolo_ said:
See what you want to see.
If it's not dead yet, Windows Mobile life ends in a three or four months, when WP7 arrives.
Then, all our crappy WM phones will became useless, pointless (no new applications, no new developers). And gets worse: impossible to re-sell because NOBODY will want a Windows Mobile phone.
Think about it: we even haven't HardSPL for the X2 yet. And of course, this is never going to happen because the X2 is so locked that anyone isn't really working on it.
It's now or never: get rid of this crap or you'll stay the same and you'll lose money.
Cheers!
P.D.: Last post, sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Silly.
So you really mean people use only devices purchased yesterday?
Nonsense.
So your beloved iPhone: people use the first gen one till today.
So what will happen to X2 when WP7 arrives?
My phone will explode? Disappear?
It will be working as it is now. There's plenty of apps to choose from anyway.
I don't install new thing every day..

Jolo_ said:
See what you want to see.
If it's not dead yet, Windows Mobile life ends in a three or four months, when WP7 arrives.
Then, all our crappy WM phones will became useless, pointless (no new applications, no new developers). And gets worse: impossible to re-sell because NOBODY will want a Windows Mobile phone.
Think about it: we even haven't HardSPL for the X2 yet. And of course, this is never going to happen because the X2 is so locked that anyone isn't really working on it.
It's now or never: get rid of this crap or you'll stay the same and you'll lose money.
Cheers!
P.D.: Last post, sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*shrug* I'll buy it for $100, if you think it's impossible to resell.

everybody who reads this needs to first watch this video http://www.break.com/index/iphone-4-vs-htc-evo.html trust me it will make you laugh i guarantee it! and will hopefully settle some differences

Viva windows mobile 6.5 with all its goodies and flaws!!
Who wants an upgrade to an OS with these specs.....???
* No system-wide file manager
* No videocalling
* Limited third-party apps availability
* No Bluetooth file transfers
* No USB mass storage mode
* No memory card support
* No multitasking
* No copy/paste
* Too dependent on Zune software for computer file management and syncing
* No music player equalisers
* No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
* No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
* No DivX/XviD video support
* No internet tethering support
http://www.gsmarena.com/windows_phone_7-review-521.php
WTF??!!
Come on people we r way past the stone age!!
talking about iphone os limitations!!
no thanx, i'll stick to 6.5 and ofcourse to my tremendous HD2!!

Thanks for bringing me back to Earth, I just saw a WP7 video and actually got hyped...
No sarcasm, thanks man.
EDIT: I just noticed the problem, the average consumer doesn't care about most of those things (eg. third-party apps, multi-tasking), they just want a phone that seems "fast" and looks flashy.

Key features:
•Premium mobile OS (high minimum hardware requirements)
•Clean, uncluttered interface with distinctive design language
•Easy and thumbable user interface
•Smooth operation with cool animations and transition effects
•A fresh start with no legacy support needed
•Backed up and developed by one of the largest software companies in the world
•Excellent MS Office mobile implementation
•Top-notch social integration
•Excellent cloud services integration (SkyDrive, Windows Live, Xbox Live)
•Wireless syncing of multimedia content
Seriously how many times would you have used those features that are missing..??
also what about all the crappy things about 6.5 -- like lack of apps, crappy touch performance, sheer ugliness....
I'm sorry your arguments may hold valid against Android... but not windows phone Crapic, ie 6.5.X

When / if wp7 devices can dual boot 6.5.... I will cream my pants.....
Until then I'm not 100% on wp7
Sent From Your Bathroom Using Your Dirty Socks

nipuna said:
also what about all the crappy things about 6.5 -- like lack of apps, crappy touch performance, sheer ugliness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Noob, welcome and thanks for sharing a few of the finer points of all your accumulated wisdom
There are plenty of useful free applications for WM 6.5, the touch performance on the HD2 is great and most users don't see windows under the bonnet of Sense.
Meanwhile, look at the hardware specs of the latest WP7 devices
LUCKILY Microsoft are already promising updates to its unfinished FUGLY OS.
..... sometime Q1 2011 !!
It's almost like Microsoft wasn't watching Apple lurch drunkenly into the market !
Apple has the lemming market to buy into their lamer phones Microsoft doesn't.
Someone at Microsoft has pulled the trigger before taking the gun out of their collective holster, neatly shooting themselves in the foot.

not my cup of tea at all im afraid. looks like i'll defo be jumping over to android in a years time. untill then im more that happy with my totally customizable hd2.......

donwhann said:
not my cup of tea at all im afraid. looks like i'll defo be jumping over to android in a years time. untill then im more that happy with my totally customisable hd2.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ive been running android for about 2 weeks and its getting old very quickly.......
might just sell my upgrade and buy a spare hd2...... then spend the rest on pies lol......

conantroutman said:
ive been running android for about 2 weeks and its getting old very quickly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is a very young OS and, like all babies, Android will grow quicker than you realise and will take a lot of looking after.
WP7 is only now having a difficult birth after an overly long and pointlessly complicated gestation.

compact_bijou said:
Android is a very young OS and, like all babies, Android will grow quicker than you realise and will take a lot of looking after.
WP7 is only now having a difficult birth after an overly long and pointlessly complicated gestation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like that analogy....
works for me because I hate kids lol......
personally I think id rather be around for the birth of a newborn than adopt a toddler...... if you see what I mean
you are right about android though I guess.....

conantroutman said:
I like that analogy....
works for me because I hate kids lol......
personally I think id rather be around for the birth of a newborn than adopt a toddler...... if you see what I mean
you are right about android though I guess.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android at 2.2 is, effectively, still in beta.
To elaborate on the baby analogy, WP7 is like taking a baby home from the hospital today, taking it back in January
to have the arms fitted, in March to have the legs fitted and then (probably) going back every first Tuesday in the
month to have it patched ffs ! - just like most other Windows software
When device hardware is 1.5 Ghz - dual core - and 32/64GB internal / 64/128 GB external is standard, then I'll call upgrade.
Everything else on the new devices is pretty much already here on the HD2.

WP7 sucks big time!!!
Another thing you all didn't mention, no synchronization with Outlook with your contacts and your agenda! Yes, it has Office Mobile, but no synchronization with Outlook on your desktop PC! WTF?! This is a MAJOR drawback, especially for the business market.
No people, this is like going back to the stone age. Sorry Microsoft, you spoiled a good thing, instead of evolving you into something better, you made a Neanderthal OS system compared to your Homo Sapien WM 6.5.
I hope for HTC that they let Microsoft foot the bill for putting so much restrictions on their hardware in order to use their OS. Like, what is a phone without expandable memory??!
I will be keeping my HD2 for the time-being and I know you guys here on XDA will keep the ROM's coming for it. And besides, I NEED my navigation! Can't do without it, and as long as no third-party apps are available for WP7, I won't be switching!
I agree with the part that Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot with this OS, it's doomed from the beginning. iPhone and Android have evolved much further and nobody is looking for a restricted copy of any of these, that's what was nice with WM, totally customizable and flexible the way WE wanted it.
One bit of advice to Microsoft: Stick to PC's and leave the Phone OS market behind.

nipuna said:
Key features:
(...)
Seriously how many times would you have used those features that are missing..??
also what about all the crappy things about 6.5 -- like lack of apps, crappy touch performance, sheer ugliness....
I'm sorry your arguments may hold valid against Android... but not windows phone Crapic, ie 6.5.X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, the "main disadvantages" list has 14 entries.
10 of those (1,4,5,6,7,8,10,12,13,14) would directly affect my daily life, would i exchange my hd2 for a hd7. i think most people would agree if i said that for me, wp7 SUCKS A**. (first time ever to use bold letters)

compact_bijou said:
When device hardware is 1.5 Ghz - dual core - and 32/64GB internal / 64/128 GB external is standard, then I'll call upgrade.
Everything else on the new devices is pretty much already here on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
word (+ some more characters so i'm allowed to post this reply)

They gotta fix these
* No Bluetooth file transfers<- again basic 6.X feature
* No USB mass storage mode<- yeah this is a bummer
* No memory card support <-proabably due to the unified memory space presented to the user
* No multitasking <- I think they are going to reverse this decision
* No copy/paste <-this should have been in there from the start as there is no excuse that MS can come up with as to why this most basic of windows features is missing
MS may be leaving this up to individual carriers to add
* No internet tethering support
hopefully someone will add this
* No music player equalisers
not sure I care for this slowing down my phone, but again they can fix this with an update once they streamline it (silverlight) and Adobe is gonna have to do the flash thing and we all know how slow those guys are
* No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
MS will fix this especially now that Bing is getting popular
* No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
We are going to have to wait until someone supplies a codec and then this problem will be resolved
* No DivX/XviD video support

Come on .. this is the same as with any OS. First version can do basically nothing. All these features without doubt will be there in two years. Except maybe not. I think WP7 will not live that long. I see totally no reason why would anyone want it, especially at this state. They don't even plan to offer anything different then iPhone or Android.
I even HOPE that WP7 will die in world in which Palm's WebOS has real troubles.
For me, I'm going for Desire HD or something like that. 4" screen Android without keyboard.

Does the fact that there's no legacy support mean that I need to buy the £1,000 worth of applications I've acquired over the years again? I think that might account for some of the positive reviews.
I can't afford to move to Phone 7.

DrATty said:
Does the fact that there's no legacy support mean that I need to buy the £1,000 worth of applications I've acquired over the years again? I think that might account for some of the positive reviews.
I can't afford to move to Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would depend on developers. Some do provide applications for more platforms and you only need to pay once. But the, some other developers don't do that. And then again with some applications you will have to go to different developer to get the same functionality. So yeah, most of your money will be wasted, if not all.

Dr.Sid said:
That would depend on developers. Some do provide applications for more platforms and you only need to pay once. But the, some other developers don't do that. And then again with some applications you will have to go to different developer to get the same functionality. So yeah, most of your money will be wasted, if not all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought as much. It's quite a bitter pill to swallow for someone who's been loyal over the years.
It's becoming a problem in other areas too. Microsoft isn't supporting some of its newer functionality in XP. I can't afford to move everything to 7 just yet (I jumped Vista.) The file format of several of my desktop applications has changed recently meaning an upgrade is needed to remain compatibility with colleagues. I don't know how Phone 7 works with Outlook yet but I can see £ signs already. Software has always had a finite life but it seems to me that this life is getting shorter. Actually, WM has lasted in its current form for far longer than most; that's been a problem for it for a while now.
What I've seen of Phone 7 so far suggests that it's an OS in the vein of iOS4. It works very well but doesn't encourage experimentation. I like WM because I've always been able to hack the OS into working how I want it too. Perhaps the average user doesn't add much in the way of 3rd-party applications; that's left to corporate users and they have the money. Big changes like this aren't very enthusiast-friendly.

wergor said:
ok, the "main disadvantages" list has 14 entries.
10 of those (1,4,5,6,7,8,10,12,13,14) would directly affect my daily life, would i exchange my hd2 for a hd7. i think most people would agree if i said that for me, wp7 SUCKS A**. (first time ever to use bold letters)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, these functions I have become dependent upon and I will be sticking with 6.5 until I can no longer get a phone that supports it.
At that time, I will start carrying a couple of cans with string between them, have a very large wallet with all my pics, and a brief case with all of my documents, and a portable tv with all of my funny videos on it.
That WP7 looks no better than the Iphone with some fancy dynamic social network updates.
No Thanks!
Jeff
I have spoken...

DrATty said:
Does the fact that there's no legacy support mean that I need to buy the £1,000 worth of applications I've acquired over the years again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure. Probably.
You will be able to do something with your Xbox from your phone and update what you've done to your Zune on FacePalm or something ?