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I'm a freshman at Purdue University studying computer science, and my interest pretty much lays in mobile devices and programming. Just a background about myself.
I've been looking at mobile platforms. I've had some experience with using Windows Mobile and the iPhone OS, but haven't had any experience with Android. My question for all of you is, what OS do you think I, or more generally, current college students should focus on?
Obviously there's the big factor of personal preferences, but looking forward, what is going to be a big market?
The iPhone OS already has a big application market, and I do think it will only grow as the iPhone market share grows, but I fear the iPhone's market will peak before I get out of college in about 3 more years.
Android seems to be the budding OS, since its market share is quite low due to only having one device out, and for a small(er) US carrier. But I feel Android, since backed by Google, will thrive for awhile.
Blackberry OS seems really nice, but for now I think the developer pool and demand for blackberry applications is quite low. But, this means that is could peak about then time I'm out of college.
Finally, Windows Mobile seems to be, and no offense to anyone here, but the laughing stock of mobile OS'. The introduction of Windows Mobile 6.5 will help, and Windows Mobile 7 could spark the WinMo community and userbase.
What are your thoughts?
iPhone will continue to be successful but its closed environment will hinder its full potential. It is likely to reach a critical mass soon that it won't be able to reach beyond as long as it clings to proprietary hardware.
Android is likely to continue to be a niche market, much like Google Docs. Successful only if you define the term in a very particular way, but not in a "mass market" way.
Blackberry, from an applications standpoint, has already stalled and is likely to continue to do so unless the Storm can break through, which seems unlikely at this point. After the initial mania over it, it's become kind of a yawn.
You've not included Symbian, but since I don't know much about it I won't comment on it here.
Windows Mobile is not likely to increase its market share significantly, but it's also unlikely to lose much more market share. Integration with the Windows desktop/server world is only likely to become tighter, and that will remain attractive to business users.
I doubt you will go far wrong with strong skills in both iPhone and WinMo. Others are risky.
But really, you mentioned you want to program for mobile devices. With the OS's you mention you are unnecessarily limiting yourself. Windows CE is a quite powerful mobile platform that many of the largest manufacturers are basing their mobile strategies on - just not telephones or other handheld devices. There are many other mobile technologies that you should investigate and will probably give you far greater opportunities than a phone OS.
Like he said, I would definately not focus on a phone OS but rather on a core OS.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, ajbopp, and I get where you're coming from. But in terms of market share for phones, I feel that the trend is going quickly towards average-user type smartphones like the iPhone. My feeling is that whatever OS can tailor towards the average user is going to be the one that comes out with the biggest market share, but that much is obviously. WinMo and Blackberry at the moment are geared towards businesses and if they stay that way they won't own the market. I'm really looking into what OS will perform well in the mass market.
Gotta disagree with you there. Whatever OS can tailor to business needs is where the market share is at. And I don't mean the device that can integrate with Exchange Server the easiest and most reliably.
The OS that will run the navigation, climate control, GPS, etc. systems in every automobile produced by Toyota, or every transport truck engineered by Navistar, or every driver from UPS...that market will dwarf the personal communication device market. The opportunity for application development is more extensive, and the value of those applications will be immeasurably higher. They already are.
let him go with the FailPhone already...
ajbopp said:
Gotta disagree with you there. Whatever OS can tailor to business needs is where the market share is at. And I don't mean the device that can integrate with Exchange Server the easiest and most reliably.
The OS that will run the navigation, climate control, GPS, etc. systems in every automobile produced by Toyota, or every transport truck engineered by Navistar, or every driver from UPS...that market will dwarf the personal communication device market. The opportunity for application development is more extensive, and the value of those applications will be immeasurably higher. They already are.
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Well right now the iPhone has a sizable market share and is tailored to the average user, no?
And I think the OS that is capable of running the things you mentioned sounds like Android, since it's not limited by hardware or software limitations.
met3ora said:
Well right now the iPhone has a sizable market share and is tailored to the average user, no?
And I think the OS that is capable of running the things you mentioned sounds like Android, since it's not limited by hardware or software limitations.
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But it's also not standard, or well-used. You're banking on Android becoming something as commonplace as Java did so quickly in the 90s. I think that's pretty much a long shot.
Plus, you have to consider code re-use and platform diversity. Today, Windows, Windows Mobile, and WindowsCE is still the target to beat when it comes to marketing plans, project expenses, customer familiarity, legacy product integration, and a host of other considerations.
Java offered platform independence at a time when the WWW was just beginning to burgeon. Had it been developed even 5 years earlier, it probably would not have been successful.
There is no comparable event on the horizon that is likely to make Android the dominant mobile OS. There's just not enough incentive to jump to it.
As someone that sells cell phones for a living (at least while in college), I will give my perspective on what I see and hear from customers, as well, my personal feelings as a multiplatform smart phone user...
Background: I offer multiple HTC devices... the Diamond, TyTN II, Touch Dual, Touch, and S621. I offer 3, soon to be 4, Blackberries, the 8310 Curve(2mp camera, GPS, EDGE), the Pearl 8110 (Same as Curver), and the 8820 (No camera, GPS, EDGE, and WiFi), and shortly the new Curve 8900 (3.2mp camera, GPS, WiFi, and EDGE).
Customer: The majority of my customers go with the Blackberry Curve/Pearl(More Curves than Pearls). They like them for the ease of use, in terms of easy app downloading and use, easy e-mail, easy internet, easy customization with a new theme. They are mostly concerned with rock solid stability, battery life, and easy to use. Business ability plays a very small role in the choice, actually, of a BB.
Helping with business related aspects has more to do with selling a customer on a smartphone than any one brand. Also, as I am on a small tangant, BB has done a lot as of late to make their phones less business centric and more mainstream, and have been very successful with this.
As for customers that go with WinMo based devices they don't mind a slightly more complicated OS. They are a bit more tech savy. They don't really care so much about the phone's camera, as they already have a 12mp digital camera for that. The are looking more at cutting edge, from the touchscreen, to the ability to do anything with the phone. They do get frustrated with how slow out of the box the HTC can be, but they don't mind, because they are likely flashing a ROM anyways, or they don't care because it gives them more abilities out of the box than a BB will ever be able to do with every app loaded onto it.
So what does this all mean in terms of longevity? Well, a couple things...
1. WinMo has a much brighter future than BB. In 3 years, WinMo devices are going to be faster and more capable out of the box. BB's will gain in speed, but they will still be limited to essentially an 'os' inside an OS. Palm ran into the problem BB is fastly approaching, they can't improve on what they have anymore since their ceiling is already reached. That is a huge benefit WinMo has over BB, and the others, except for maybe Android, it's ceiling is much higher in terms of absoluter ability.
2. It means that whoever developes a UI for WinMo, whether it be microsoft, HTC, or someone else, that is as friendly as the BB OS will make a killing!
If I was doing a degree in computing, with my focus geared toward mobile platforms I would focus on WinMo/ Windows CE... I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
As for my personal preference as someone that owns both a TyTN II and a BB 8110 Pearl, I prefer WinMo. I like it because I am not affraid of technology, can customize it ten fold more than the BB, have a more complete web experience, and so forth. Basically, I prefer capability over all other aspects. And like I said already, while WinMo may lack in ease of use and out of box speed right now, it will catch up and prove to be superior.
NOTE: If, and this is a huge IF given Apple's track record, the iPhone OS becomes available for other platforms, it will explode and take over a huge share of the market, I don't think 50%, but it will be one of the top 2 smartphone OS.
pjcforpres, so you're saying that Windows Mobile will start becoming the more prominent OS in the long run?
The release of Windows Mobile 6.5 (I haven't tried it, I've since moved on to a Nokia N95 from my Tilt) looks like it's finally giving a facelift to the standard ugly interface we're all used to.
My concern with WinMo is the lack of an built-in application store. Admittedly I haven't kept up as much as I should on that, but I believe MS has one in the works to be shipped with 6.5? If so and if this takes off, I'd probably look to move into that field.
Has anyone had experience programming in XCode (iPhone/Mac OSX) and can tell how difficult it is compared to other languages such as Java?
pjcforpres said:
As someone that sells cell phones for a living (at least while in college), I will give my perspective on what I see and hear from customers, as well, my personal feelings as a multiplatform smart phone user...
Background: I offer multiple HTC devices... the Diamond, TyTN II, Touch Dual, Touch, and S621. I offer 3, soon to be 4, Blackberries, the 8310 Curve(2mp camera, GPS, EDGE), the Pearl 8110 (Same as Curver), and the 8820 (No camera, GPS, EDGE, and WiFi), and shortly the new Curve 8900 (3.2mp camera, GPS, WiFi, and EDGE).
Customer: The majority of my customers go with the Blackberry Curve/Pearl(More Curves than Pearls). They like them for the ease of use, in terms of easy app downloading and use, easy e-mail, easy internet, easy customization with a new theme. They are mostly concerned with rock solid stability, battery life, and easy to use. Business ability plays a very small role in the choice, actually, of a BB.
Helping with business related aspects has more to do with selling a customer on a smartphone than any one brand. Also, as I am on a small tangant, BB has done a lot as of late to make their phones less business centric and more mainstream, and have been very successful with this.
As for customers that go with WinMo based devices they don't mind a slightly more complicated OS. They are a bit more tech savy. They don't really care so much about the phone's camera, as they already have a 12mp digital camera for that. The are looking more at cutting edge, from the touchscreen, to the ability to do anything with the phone. They do get frustrated with how slow out of the box the HTC can be, but they don't mind, because they are likely flashing a ROM anyways, or they don't care because it gives them more abilities out of the box than a BB will ever be able to do with every app loaded onto it.
So what does this all mean in terms of longevity? Well, a couple things...
1. WinMo has a much brighter future than BB. In 3 years, WinMo devices are going to be faster and more capable out of the box. BB's will gain in speed, but they will still be limited to essentially an 'os' inside an OS. Palm ran into the problem BB is fastly approaching, they can't improve on what they have anymore since their ceiling is already reached. That is a huge benefit WinMo has over BB, and the others, except for maybe Android, it's ceiling is much higher in terms of absoluter ability.
2. It means that whoever developes a UI for WinMo, whether it be microsoft, HTC, or someone else, that is as friendly as the BB OS will make a killing!
If I was doing a degree in computing, with my focus geared toward mobile platforms I would focus on WinMo/ Windows CE... I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
As for my personal preference as someone that owns both a TyTN II and a BB 8110 Pearl, I prefer WinMo. I like it because I am not affraid of technology, can customize it ten fold more than the BB, have a more complete web experience, and so forth. Basically, I prefer capability over all other aspects. And like I said already, while WinMo may lack in ease of use and out of box speed right now, it will catch up and prove to be superior.
NOTE: If, and this is a huge IF given Apple's track record, the iPhone OS becomes available for other platforms, it will explode and take over a huge share of the market, I don't think 50%, but it will be one of the top 2 smartphone OS.
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Typing on my blackstone right now so will make it short. .
I definately do -not- think the WinMo OS will thrive, nor completely go out of the picture. If they manage to increase their user experience and out of the box situation it might, but I don't see this happening anywhere untill Windows 7.
Looking at your statement about WinMo users I have to completely disagree with you. The biggest share of people that have a WinMo device do nothing with customization at all, nor are they tech-savvy people. The thing that influences phone sales the most is still the outside (Features, looks, branding) before software, looking at the sale figures of let's say the Omnia vs the iPhone in Germany says it aswell. The majority of people that bought a iPhone (average-users which present the highest share) didn't go to the Apple store because they read about the fluid OS it's using, but cause it's from Apple and they had been using an iPod for so long. The biggest reason the iPhone had such a succes was cause of Apple's image in customer-friendly electronics and as a status symbol. (Say all you want, marketing-technical this is the case.)
Most likely if we actually look at Apple's record, theres nearly no chance the iPhone OS will go multi-platform. They've always been extremely tidy-up on enforcing patents and even try to go against x86 hardware Mac OS users.
Fingers getting tired now so that's all for now
pjcforpres said:
I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
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Lol..
Edit: What about Palm's WEB OS???
windows will be thrive i think
This is an interesting discussion. I'm a great fun of the sloppy open OS windows offers for the same reason I dwell on these forums. You asked about an appstore, which wm6.5 has (not functional yet because of the betaness). But I really don't think that's something to base future predictions on, because everyone is catching up to that right now, I do believe nokia has an appstore as well.
As for the thriving osses, I'm quite certain that the general smartfone market share is and will be increasing. People seem to pay EUR 600 to get the newest "dumb" phones, for the same money they can have a smartphone that looks good as well. I do see apple's one provider provider as limiting for Iphone OS as a lot of people are satisfied with the deals providers proir their newest phone deal and getting a simunlocked one is quite a hassle. I have had some big discussions over people who are buying what os, and they seem to believe that the general population thinks of an iphone when they think of a multifunctional phone. That being said I'm looking very much forward to windows 7 as I think it will deal with a lot of the currents uglyness and sloppyness of the phones. It will however mean that the newer WM will be "more" closed than before, but I'll guess we will manage , 12
Right now 3 OS'es are leading the pack: WM, Apples and Symbians.
Symbians will probably continue to prosper since they are still by far the easiest to familiarize devices you can ever have. But I'm sure, until symbian figures out a way to be as pretty as an iPhone or as flexible as WM.. they will slowly come out of the picture like Palm and BBs.
As long as Steve Jobs stays alive, apple will get bigger. They may not call it iPhones anymore but it's gonna be something hip and cool that would certainly appeal to the younger/new generation market.
WM will never die. As long as you have Windows PC's, you cannot kill WM. And right now, WM6.5 is heading the right track.. it maintained the flexibility and power of WM and added an iPhone feel to it. I have no doubt that WM7 will definitely make everything better. Much like what they did from XP to Vista.
Android? Hmm.. until they show more devices that can use it, yeah maybe. But I'd stick to WM and iPhones if you wanna develop mobile apps.
antrak:
I understand what you are saying about marketing and all of that. The success of the iPhone is largely due to marketing and familiarity. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, brands and locks down their technology like Apple does. And the branding they gave the iPhone was ease of use, speed, and customization out of the box.
WinMo devices don't have that as easily out of the box. Overall, you can do more with a WinMo device than an iPhone, but it takes more to get the WinMo device to do it.
And it has been my experience, with WinMo and BB as my only 2 smart phone platforms, that the more tech savvy people go with the WinMo device, and those looking for a simpler more straight forward out of the box experience go with the BB.
At the OP:
Yes, I am saying that in the long run, WinMo will be the overall leader. Just as you see Windows based PCs as the dominant computer in the market, you will see WinMo devices as the dominant smart phone in the market. The only drawbacks WinMo has can be fixed rather easily... The lack of speed is something this community has already addressed and fixed. My TyTN II flies! The touch friendliness is being address as we speak, with Touchflo from HTC and TouchWiz from Samsung and WinMo 6.5/7.0 from Microsoft. I believe that Microsoft coming up with the solution is more likely, and is more important than for HTC or Samsung or some other company to come up with their own UI solution. Also, fingers crossed, better graphics drivers would go a long way in helping out WinMo devices, especially HTC devices.
Also, note that WinMo syncs up much better with all those home PC's than any other platform. People looking to get a smart phone are buying them with the idea that they can use the phone in place of their computer for many regular day tasks. I use my TyTN II to manage the small business I am starting up, my work emails, my schedule, school work, and so much more.
I also have a BB Pearl, and as much as I loved it's simplicity, it wasn't powerful enough or integrated enough with my home PC to cut it. BB is great at making a rock solid idiot proof smart phone that allows you to communicate with ease, and they are doing more for multimedia. But BB is approaching it's limitations as it is an 'os' inside and OS.
WebOS looks amazing, and I am sure it will run amazing as well. Palm does good work, for the most part, but they are similar to BB. The new WebOS is a step above, and will have a higher ceiling than BBs current ceiling for future ability. But it is still going to fall short of WinMo, Android, etc. in long term totality because it is too isolated, just like BB.
The advantages WinMo, and the iPhone as well, have over everyone else is that they have full computer based OS backing them up. WinMo has Windows PCs, the iPhone has Macs. As Apple develops the iPhone OS more and more, it will sync better and better with Macs, and do more and more.
As Android handsets become more plentiful, the development will pick up pace, and it will gain a following, especially with Google backing them. And their is the potential they will sync up multiplatform better than anyone else just because they are open source.
WinMo will gain in out of the box speed and UI friendliness. It will probably be a year for WinMo 7.0 to come out and catch up in speed and UI. But WinMo is already ahead of the game when it comes to everything else. Just look at the market and what is available for WinMo devices compared to the other OS.
WinMo will always sync better with Windows PCs than any other OS. As Apple works on it, the iPhone will sync better with Macs than any other OS. And as time goes on, technology advances, and so forth, the smart phone market will follow the home computer market. WinMo will be the leader, Apple will be second, and the others will still hold on to the market, but they won't ever eclipse WinMo and Apple once the market settles.
Basically, I see the smart phone market as a developing market right now. I don't think today’s numbers and trends are very significant when you are trying to size up long term trends. I believe long term trends, and business school agrees here, will follow several factors, specifically for smart phones those work out like such:
1. Usability: This has to do with speed, UI ease of use, and compatibility with other technologies.
2. Price: The more expensive, the less likely it is to "boom" or "tip" or any of those nice catch phrases.
3. Stickiness: Aka, cool factor, fun factor, hip factor, everyone must have it factor.
I see WinMo, in the long term, leading all others when it comes to usability, as it is a familiar platform that will sync better with already established technologies. It will also be competively priced, except for BB, I don't believe anyone else is as cheap. And stickiness... well the iPhone has that right now, but with proper marketing and better UI, WinMo will catch back up. And FYI, I believe sticky wise it goes 1.iPhone 2. BB Curve 3. G1 4. HTC of sort.
I am rambling and all over the place a bit by now, and since I am not going to edit, I will recap to bring it all together.
Based on my personal experience with WinMo and BB, as a salesman and an end user, as well my knowledge of the market, I believe WinMo devices have the brightest future. Of course, WinMo devices have to overcome their out of the box lack of speed and UI friendliness, but I don't see those as insurmountable obstacles. Rather, I see those as all the more reason to focus on the WinMo platform, as there is going to be a demand for talented programmers capable of achieving that goal, as well, capable of taking advantage of the wide breadth of abilities that WinMo has.
I see where you're going in terms of integration and its benefits towards the future. I guess I'm being a litle short-sighted here, as now I feel the basic smartphone user *isn't* actually integrating.
Admittedly I'm looking primarily (and that's a shortfall of mine) at my own demographic, which is college kids looking for trendiness and wow factor. But I'm willing to bet that if you asked 20 college kids with WinMo or iPhones, you'd find 5 or less of them are actually syncing them to their computer.
As of right now, I believe the general public isn't tieing in their phone with their computer as most, if not all of us on this forum are used to doing. So in terms of integration being a big selling point, I don't see the general public looking at that as highly as us as more tech-savvy people do. Now, I DO believe that when we get far enough in to the future that integration WILL be a major selling point, but I believe the near future still seperates phone from computer.
The question of what attracts people to a phone is a rather interesting one. This is another assumption I'm making, but I believe what draws people to the iPhone is part trendy factor, part status symbol and part "you can do so many things with it so easily". I'm definitely open to being proven wrong, and I guess my argument comes from pure assumption and a bit of knowledge on how the college-kid's-brain functions, but I do see the average college kid as a fairly accurate representation of the general public.
It may look from all my posts that I'm very pro-iPhone, which isn't necessarily true. We can all agree that Apple has done many things right with their phone. I'm just interested in how it gained its popularity. If one were to see just how popular it was going to become and jumped on developing apps on it very early, there is a giant profit to be made here.
That's what I'm looking for-- what will peak in the coming years?
met3ora said:
I see where you're going in terms of integration and its benefits towards the future. I guess I'm being a litle short-sighted here, as now I feel the basic smartphone user *isn't* actually integrating.
Admittedly I'm looking primarily (and that's a shortfall of mine) at my own demographic, which is college kids looking for trendiness and wow factor. But I'm willing to bet that if you asked 20 college kids with WinMo or iPhones, you'd find 5 or less of them are actually syncing them to their computer.
As of right now, I believe the general public isn't tieing in their phone with their computer as most, if not all of us on this forum are used to doing. So in terms of integration being a big selling point, I don't see the general public looking at that as highly as us as more tech-savvy people do. Now, I DO believe that when we get far enough in to the future that integration WILL be a major selling point, but I believe the near future still seperates phone from computer.
The question of what attracts people to a phone is a rather interesting one. This is another assumption I'm making, but I believe what draws people to the iPhone is part trendy factor, part status symbol and part "you can do so many things with it so easily". I'm definitely open to being proven wrong, and I guess my argument comes from pure assumption and a bit of knowledge on how the college-kid's-brain functions, but I do see the average college kid as a fairly accurate representation of the general public.
It may look from all my posts that I'm very pro-iPhone, which isn't necessarily true. We can all agree that Apple has done many things right with their phone. I'm just interested in how it gained its popularity. If one were to see just how popular it was going to become and jumped on developing apps on it very early, there is a giant profit to be made here.
That's what I'm looking for-- what will peak in the coming years?
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I agree with you in general here... I am looking into the future as much as possible as that is what you seem to be asking about... "what will peak in the coming years?"
I also agree that in general, the average user isn't syncing their phone with their computer and are looking more towards ease of use. That is why I tried, and maybe failed, to emphasis that WinMo needs to improve that aspect in order for it to pop as I believe it will.
WinMo as it is right now is not very user friendly. The UI is outdated and not touch friendly. Out of the box the phones are slow and cumbersome for the "trendy" market.
But in 3 years, I don't believe that will be true anymore of WinMo devices. I believe they will increase in speed, and thus useability. I believe the UI will become more friendly to the end consumer, especially the low tech end user that WinMo seems to miss out on.
This isn't to say there are no "non-techy" users of WinMo, there are plenty, probably more than are super techy like us. But even those "non-techy" WinMo users have a bit more tech knowledge than your average BB user.
Basically, what I am getting at is that in the long term, 3 years from now when you are graduating, 10 years from now, and so forth, WinMo has a brighter future than other platforms for the very reason it will integrate better, and its current downsides are easily fixed compared to other OS downsides.
Pocket PC's are not good with cameras, they don't have good battery life, 65 colors and no multitouch, not apps preinstalled, difficut for the average user, they don't handle games right (they are good games out there but they are old),no visibility under sun and on top of that the new models can't handle non converted videos (thanks god I have Asus P535)...
That's why the public doesn't like Windows Mobile. And 6.5 - Wow transperent bars and new start menu - nothing at all. The hope for Windows Mobile is Nvidia Tegra.. !
One thing I have trouble with is gauging how long it takes for things to happen. WinMo is behind on UI's, true, but is trying to be saved by 3rd party UI's like TouchFlo and TouchWiz. I think a lot of the problem is that WinMo DOES have the reputation of being slow and not user friendly. Of course, this reputation is due to the out of the box experience, which is very crucial.
But how long will it take for people to be comfortable with WinMo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most people are now buying WinMo phones that have custom UI's on top of them (HTC, Samsung, etc), and I think this will really help in the revival of WM as a "good" OS.
Now, Android is starting out with the initial impression that it is touch friendly, fast and customizable. WinMo is gonna need to dig itself out of the hole that is its own stereotypes, and I believe Android has the advantage BECAUSE of its initial impression.
Thoughts?
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/57664
Watch out, iPhone—Android's nipping at your heels.
Researchers at Gartner (via AppleInsider) are predicting that the global market share for Google's Android mobile OS could overtake the iPhone's in a little over two years, with Android poised to leapfrog Apple into the No. 2 spot.
That would leave the iPhone in the No. 3 position—right where it is now, behind BlackBerry and Nokia's Symbian OS, according to Gartner. The industry researchers believe that by 2012, Research in Motion (the company behind the BlackBerry) will have lost 7 percent of its market share, causing it to slip into fifth place (behind even Windows Mobile). Android, meanwhile, will get a 12.9-percent boost to become the No. 2 smartphone platform in the world, with Symbian still safe in the No. 1 spot (with a dominating, although dwindling, 39 percent of the global market).
Those are just analyst predictions, of course, and two years is an eternity in the wireless world; after all, two years ago today, we were still getting used to the first iPhone.
That said, I think the gist of Gartner's prediction—that Android is poised to take the wireless market by storm—is spot on, and we've seen evidence of that in the past few months and weeks.
Google's open-source Android platform—which boasts one of the finest touchscreen interfaces out there, iPhone included—came slow out of the gates in fall 2008 with the solid, if uninspiring T-Mobile G1. We had to wait almost a year for the next Android phone in the U.S., but we finally got one this past August with the G1's follow-up, the HTC-made myTouch 3G (also on T-Mobile).
Soon after, what started as a trickle quickly became a flood. Sprint trotted out its first Android phone, the eye-catching, touchscreen HTC Hero, and then T-Mobile followed suit with the Motorola Cliq, its third Android handset ... followed by the Samsung Behold II just a few days ago. On Tuesday, Verizon Wireless announced it would launch a pair of Android phones before the end of the year, while Sprint announced its second Android phone—the Samsung Moment—a day later. Oh, and now there's rumors that Dell wants in on the Android action, with a new handset possible slated for iPhone carrier AT&T.
Let's see, that's ... one, two, three, four ... five new Android phones in in the past few months, with two more—and possibly even a third—due by the end of the year, from two (or maybe three) different manufacturers and three (possibly four) carriers. Some will be better than others, but consumers will have plenty of models (and carriers) from which to choose.
Of course, a bunch of new phones on the market doesn't mean diddly unless someone buys them, and for now, Apple has a solid 10.8- versus 1.6-percent lead over Android in terms of global smartphone market share. But Apple is the only company making iPhones, while the open-source (and high-quality) Android platform is available to all manufacturers and carriers—and from what we've been seeing, they're taking the ball and running with it.
I phone killa!
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
phatmanxxl said:
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
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Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
unless android devices leap away from qualcomm chipset, i'm not sure about the end user satisfaction
i've tried quite a few qualcomm based devices, some non-smartphones as well, and i have to say they all suck compared to non-qualcomm based devices, sucky multimedia, sucky network performance!
try htc diamond & i-mate 8150 side by side, you'll will know what i'm talking about
X-i-phoner said:
Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
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I got nothing against iphones really. im sure if I got to use one for a day I'd probly like it. But being on T-mobile for over over 5 years I tend to only pay attention to T-mo and At&t phones.
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
phatmanxxl said:
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
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Agreed, I can also see android doing the same stuff apple is now too.
Back in the early days of the PC when it was Apple vs IBM, IBM won because they licensed their architecture to various manufactures which were then able to make 100% Compatible IBM clones. Apple on the other hand insisted that it keep manufacturing in house, and look what happened.
~20 years later we may see history repeat itself.
You can't assume that apple is going for world domination. Their past successes have been based entirely off the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, which they are likely to hold on to no matter what anyone else does.
The reason for their *temporary* position in the smartphone business is simple; they happened to be in the right place at the right time... and very lucky. A few years ago, palm was in a position to dominate the smartphone market, but they dragged their feet and allowed ugly-as-the-1970's RIM to capture the business user market. Palm *used to* have the business market, and even had a (at the time) very slick and colorful UI with touch screen and more features than you could shake a stick at, and at a time when RIM had clunky black-and-white displays, no graphics to speak of, and that stupid roller wheel. So at a time when a smartphone only really made sense to a business user, palm had devices that were actually quite attractive to just about everybody, but they stagnated rather than taking advantage of what they had, which left them in a very weak state when apple showed up to take the *entire* non-business smartphone market -- right at the time when it started making sense for *everybody* to have a smartphone.
So right before 'droid showed up, the smartphone market was severely skewed... on one hand, you had RIM with all the business market, on the other hand, you had apple with all the pleasure market. Android though, has the potential to be everything for everybody, and by everybody I mean google and the OHA, phone manufacturers, carriers, and even users.
If their computer business is any indication, apple isn't about to drop their prices to anything sensible -- they're still sitting at about FOUR TIMES what it would cost for generic hardware. For whatever reason, this appeals to the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, that, along with the shinyness... MEANING: there are going to be TONS of manufacturers wielding android, COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER regarding prices. Which is a great thing. It means that we can look forward to very inexpensive 'droid devices while the likes of apple price themselves out of the market. Even now, the current i-phony is about $200 CDN more than Dream or Magic -- and don't give any crap that its "better" -- it does, after all, run their crap software.
Somebody said symbian? The fact that the world's cheapest mobile phone manufacturer wants to call their crap proprietary firmware by some name doesn't make it a dominating factor in anyone's opinion. Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of), every provider gives them away for FREE to anybody who signs up for a contract.... since many people already HAVE a phone that they want to use and the carrier forces them into the contract anyways, they get a free phone that may never even get removed from the box. In fact, I have a BOX full of them myself, more of them than any other phone, and yet not a single one of them has so much as been turned on. And yet it counts as a sale in favor of "symbian". So by my math, about half the mobile phones delivered are the "free" ones that come with the contract.
lbcoder said:
Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of),.
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http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online?CMP=KNC-SEM_001&site=Google&device=BuyOnline
The n97 and n900 are sweet phones. Nokias market is dominating in china and japan. Many other places dont get to see all the cool stuff Noika puts out because Nokia doesnt need to advertise it anywhere else. My little bro got the N95 developer edition the day it came out, He still has it and it is still really advanced compared to most phones.
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
phatmanxxl said:
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Two things about your prediction...
1. Companies can have more input as to what goes into their business phones.
Imagine my company XYZ starts a contract for the carrier to provide a specific hardware/cellular platform. I can then take that hardware platform and load my customized Android platform onto it. What company wouldn't want that level of control over their business assets? You certainly can't get that with RIM.
2. The carriers, more than anyone, decide what functions a particular phone is marketed towards. From a financial and support perspective, what carrier wouldn't want to have a single OS for all device types and just load in specific apps to cater to specific functions? (Warning: Pie in the sky opinion follows.) Need a business phone? Here is our business suite on our business hardware. Want a gamer device? Here is our game hardware with our game suite. Support would be simplified because under the hood it all works very similarly.
And my prediction...
You will see business class Android devices much sooner than you think. Just because they have not been announced yet does not mean that they are not already in the works. It is a smart move for Google to market towards the prosumers first and businesses later. Let the prosumers work out the kinks and storm the business market later with your well tested and hardened OS. Basically, we (the devs here mainly) are doing most of the work for them... (Queue Adam Sandler) FOR FREEEEEEEE!
The only thing the iPhone has against the G1 is the fact that its thinner, but now we have the MyTouch which runs Android and is also thin...Suck it Apple!
phatmanxxl said:
...and by far the best damn keyboards ever.
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You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
lbcoder said:
You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
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lol u tell him
but IMO blackberry devices are very visually appealing. i think the sprint hero, samsung moment, moto cliq, LGs first android, samsung glaxy and lite version all look ugly.
and i like some of the apps apple have. i just want to see a completed multiplayer fps on android.
WM is following iPhone and Android is creating a new market. iPhone is too heavy with the iTune and paid apps as well.
Love my Android G2. Open platform is what we need
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
The reasoning is simple... pride. And money.
Android isn't just something that is *there to use*. Many of us have a lot of time invested in the platform and it not only feels good for it to be successful, it is also financially rewarding. i-phony is right now the most recognizable mobile phone, so it is naturally the target to BEAT.
chefgon said:
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
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I'm talking about the pearl, curve and curve 2. well, I really like those keyboards, just my opinion. I never had any problems using them. Microsoft/Danger abandoned project pink (supposed to be the new danger os) sidekicks are rumored to be phased out anyway. Also with the major data outage, they have no access to their contacts, t-mail and calender for almost a month now, a lot of those customers I'm sure will move to Android.
and until corporate and business owners start handing out Google phones instead of blackberrys, RIM does have one up over Android
Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.
ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/
I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.
Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open
The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.
Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.
Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.
give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.
Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes
Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806
@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.
do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...
"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).
Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.
@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.
so i spent a long time trying to decide whether to go with an android phone or hd2
i searched high and wide all over the internet. the only android phone for gsm with a comparable screen is the samsung i9000 which looks like it would come out at about 700 bucks. either that or you take the nexus one/desire which is also in that same ballpark. after all that i went ahead and got the hd2, and i am glad i did. any hardware comparable phone to the hd2 (which there currently isnt because with 1gb rom and 576 mb of ram, beats any other phone)(US version)
After a close look at everything and playing with a friends droid incredible while comparing it to my hd2, the only big advantages i could see to get an android phone would either be the open market place, google maps, speech to text.
Resolution 1:
ok so you decide, hey let me dictate this msg. HERE IS AN IDEA, WHY NOT CALL THEM. (you might even get a chance to dictate it to someone listening).
the only place i can find real use for speech to text is while driving, and in that case, you technically shouldnt be using your phone PERIOD at that time.
Resolution 2:
people keep griping (pronounce gryping) about googlemaps, but as great as googlemaps is, what happens when you lose your bars or do not have a data plan? *gulp* you are screwed. do yourself a favor and get a non-internet reliant gps software (like actual gps devices use), and i also feel that bing does a good job of matching googlemaps.
Resolution 3:
THE MARKET PLACE. I do wish we had a market place, a nice central location where you can find everything you need. But i can tell you this, there are only so many apps you need until you get to the point where you are just trying to justify spending $X on a phone. A friend of mine while justifying how great his mytouch (android) phone is shows me all these apps he has. one app is a barcode scanner, and one app is google goggles. with goggles, the use of the barcode scanner is lost on me. (i think HD2 can also do that though). why go through all the trouble of opening your camera, looking for the barcode sending the item over the internet and all that when you could either just search for the barcode numbers (which funny enough is usually under the barcode) or searching for the items.
granted there are some nice apps like the statefarm pocket agent app out there, and most reputable companies(like banks etc) prefer to release apps for the iphone/android (my bank allows nexus one and iphone users take pics of check and automatically deposits the money into your account) but lets face it, most apps that people will need on a daily basis are also on winmo. An app that is used once or twice a month, while nice to have doesnt seem like that much of a big deal. Its kinda like getting a standby physician. Plus after a quick skim through the top apps on the marketplace, you find that 9/10 of all these apps are games (go figure), and even though they might be nice for your when you have to wait in a line or something, wouldnt a much larger screen be nicer to watch part of your fave tv show instead?
the hd2 has quite a few flaws, but the they are being fixed. Even though app development for windows 6.5 might go down when winmo7 comes out. I still like the HD2. I do not even think i would be switching to winmo7 since if i wanted an iphone, i would go get an iphone, i am not on facebook, twitter or any other social networking site.
only real reason i switched from my att tilt (the first one) was because the screen was so small and it had started to fall apart.
winmo by default sucks ass, but has limitless potential, where else would you find sms spammers, or american idol spammers (lol)
I'm not knocking android either, it has its perks and it would be nice to see what android is like on the hd2, but it makes little sense getting a winmo phone when you already knew you wanted an android phone, and then cluttering the boards asking for android. my winmo phone does everything i need it to do, so i am happy with it, i see my stocks, have my navigation from igo, have my alarm clock, IM, and calendar. ITS JUST LIKE BUYING A LAMBORGHINI AND COMPLAINING IT IS NOT A FERRARI.
only real sore point i can see no way around is flash coming to android. would have been nice to have flash but i guess i just have to take what i get.
Guys wasnt the main reason we fell in love with winmo because of the limitless possibilities?
Could not agree more, and don't forget the selection of UI's available and
the ability to configure your phone as you like it to be. Less than a month ago,
after researching Android and with the option to upgrade to the HTC Incredible
on Verizon vs the T-Mobile HD2, choose the HD2 with no regrets.
I agree too
I am really tired of all the people going i ditch my android phone or iphone for this and blah blah blah it windows mobile people what dont you get you can actual do something with this phone i love windows mobile after the years i know i know how could of like windows mobile with this will sense UI did the work to make the HD2 the best phone i had so far. I had a iphone it was okay I spent so much time fixing it to how i like it and boy it was not that easy at times lol but after a while I got the hang and did it but the apps please I stop using it for a while i would play with it for like a week and then i go boring android another story i never had one but i played with it and i was like wtf is with this crap please i don't want a phone that is set to make it easy to use because i was use to setting things to too and i know if i had an android the first thing i would do is flash it just to get to flash it lol but let get to the point if you want a android then get a android stop complaining about the windows mobile. If you want a iphone then go for it but sop you complaining about windows mobile too lol. I love my HD2 because there is a lot of nice roms and many possibility. And I forgot to mention the huge screen lol
The hard thing is trying to make sense of why a winmo phone is not more like iPhone or Android.
Do I buy Microsoft's arguement that they write the OS, but do not control the hardware that a Mobile Operator and a device manufacturer (OEM) put it on, or do I believe that someone is chasing their own tail?
I have the Nexus One, the Cliq and the MyTouch 3g. All are nice phones that I was perfectly happy with. I also owned an earlier version of the iPhone...and yes...my opinions then...and now...it was awesome...even with any faults. Yet, when presented with the HD2, my Nexus One now sits dusty and on my table.
'Good Hardware' is the key here. WinMo on the PURE...sucks. it lasted 48 hrs in my house. The Hardware package around the HD2 makes WinMo work...better. XDA makes WinMo better. So what if they take parts from here...and there....and produce great stuff....shouldn't that be ok.
I think some body in Redmond is watching. Windows Phone 7 has the potential to be GREAT...and I want one. A winmo OS with Zune...and Zune marketplace...on a 1300+ ghz hardware device....makes my toes curl. I saw a couple of models on PDADB.net the other day. I think that Microsoft, controlling more of the hardware...is the right idea. people do NOT realize how much Microsoft Windows Mobile suffers from Mobile Operator spec and boreware ...until they get to XDA and REMOVE that stuff. Right now I have the EnergyRom on my HD2....If I show it to ANYONE....they are surprised but interested. This is the same for any other ROM I may run. EXCEPT...the stock TMO rom...WP7 is supposed to remove that option....
BUT.....but....a winmo based Marketplace...hmmmm....it would be nice. Don't ya think the Apple ads...."We got an app for that"....are cool? With my androids, I could find anything I wanted,....at that moment...for my Nexus One....at the airport....is the flight on time????? Marketplace...tap tap touch...no...flight is delayed by 20 minutes. Try doing that on Windows Marketplace....you can't. Where's the nearest seafood restaurant....on Android...tap tap touch...get directions.....try doing that on Windows Marketplace...you can't. Or, my favorite....touch button..speak...Starbucks near here...get directions. It's not how many apps you can have....its about getting the apps you may want...when you want them....
But Android (or apple) marketplace did not keep me from the HD2. 5 minutes after holding the phone...I knew I made the right choice...XDA proved that anything can be done with the phone. Now, my buddy with the iPhone....says ....Wow...I can't do that with my iPhone. I just tell him...maybe there's a app for that...
After all....Windows 7...was my idea....maybe they'll listen to me about Windows Phone 7 too....
+1 on all of you.
Explain that to most people is really hard. WinMo is Vast, limitless but at the same time also complicated. I can live with that, the OS is so Fun to tweak and tinker. My earlier desicion was HD2 or Milestone thanks god i choose HD2 otherwise i only had free apps to have fun with and then get bores while with HD2 you have tons of Custom ROM just for start.
I think WM7 is too limited and controlled in comparison to WM 6.x and try to be more like "the other -read Android/IPhone" Not sure if i will upgrade but only time will tell.
I dont want to talk about Iphone, it is just boring.
I dont regret buying the Hd2. Windows mobile is nice for customization.
I just get tired of the layer skinning. My biggest problem with windows mobile is how different the text messaging looks when you get away from the sense ui
I had a g1 and the screen is just to small for me. Love android but hate small screens
well most people want to get these phones and they want it to do everything there is in the world to do. well i say that ITS JUST A PHONE!!!!!!!! sure i have a htc hd2 don't get me wrong its amazing on what it does and what it can do but remember this that its a phone. people want phones to do everything like gps, bank stuff, music, youtube, facebook, and other stuff. I don't really care on what the phone can or can't do, its a phone and its screen is amazing for seeing vids and besides i want a phone for my entertainment, text, calls, and well since it has internet of course use it. Either way The htc hd2 is a multitasker if you ask me and it is one of the most impressive phones out there and thats why i LOVE it.
try me.. its the next best device regardless if its wm 6.5
very solid points addressed! I use Garmin mobile XT, with 2011 maps 3D moving maps that were released in late April. the maps and program take 2 gigs on my 16 gb sd card. It rarely uses data other than to locate gas prices and weather. POI and everything else is stored to the phone. It has the speech step by step direction. I find it to be annoying, and set it to silence. The radio is really powerful, the satellite are found in seconds... unlike my Tp2 that takes around 10 minutes locate.
cookie Ht has a huge advantage on Sense... why even give windows credit other than better, stable drivers and 6.5 start menu vs 6.0 list..... Sense 2.5 covers to whole interface of the hd2 and paints a beautiful device. i have greatly enhanced my skins on sence, keyboard and dialer.
people complain cuz its not intuitive first time out of the box like the iphone that has beautiful eyecandy UI and they feel good knowing a child could use it. nor do they want to spend a cent more for programs to do actually what they want. its a shame. i really dont think the camera should matter, since their not meant for profession use. just a quick snap shot of a memory, all these camera phones in the dark are terrible. im happy for once, these are equipped with a 3.5 jack for music. i could ask for more. but we know that some people cant to be pleased nor willing to make it better by talking to the community to give us what would be it better.... their lose... our treasure... worth more than in the weight of gold. hehe
ok i''ve owned the g1 and them mytouch 3g. ive rooted these phones n played with them to their extreme . now i own the hd2. trust me the Android operating system is very very good also windows os, but there is two things that will make the windows os outstanding over any os ...1 i think that wm have the most apps than any other os in Apple n what they should do is have a complete make over of the wm market n have every app there is n categorize them according to what os version you have....2 finishing touch to this is creating a new os system which its UI is modern n very attractive because to be honest it feels like im running windows 5 on laptop built in 2010...im not fund of Wphone 7 becauseuUI to me isnt that customizable but one thing i do love about it is the gaming. if this is implemented onnn the hd2 you will have close to perfect mobile os ever
I still have a lot to learn about operating my hd2 – but coming from a Palm (680 and Centro) I really am happy with this phone. I wanted to stop carrying around my media player (Archos 604), my thumb-drive, a small fm radio and wanted to have a gps, real internet access , and a phone that I could listen to books on through my Bluetooth while in boring meetings. I feel I have it all in the hd2.
I picked up one of the many iphone books the other day and went through it to see what I would use on the ipone and couldn’t find any, that I would want to do, that I don’t have on the HD2. I’m not knocking the ipone, everyone I know who has one loves it – I’m just not that into texting, games, fart apps, facebbok, twitter ,or any other social media.
It is aggravating though, to walk into Best Buy and see 50 docking stations, 100 cases/covers, etc. and nothing for the HD2.
if you really wanna see how android is gonna fare on the hd2, just check out your local sprint store and check out the htc sprint evo 4g.
that being said, i own both an hd2 and two android handsets that are rooted.
what i like most about win 6.5 is the ability to customize it as much as i can a rooted android phone i.e. overclock the cpu (i just found an app for it), custom theme, save apps to sd card, play flash videos etc etc.
however, i do feel that it is a bit outdated and is more complicated to use. takes a bit of a learning curve v. android os, which is more simple to use. i see tons of potential for windows mobile 6.5 but it's a damn shame that microsoft is moving on to a more closed platform with windows mobile 7.
long term, i will probably head back to android in that regard due to updates and that it just keeps getting better and better (upcoming froyo update and then the gingerbread update which will allow for the saving of apps to sd card, etc)
engineer14 said:
so i spent a long time trying to decide whether to go with an android phone or hd2
i searched high and wide all over the internet. the only android phone for gsm with a comparable screen is the samsung i9000 which looks like it would come out at about 700 bucks. either that or you take the nexus one/desire which is also in that same ballpark. after all that i went ahead and got the hd2, and i am glad i did. any hardware comparable phone to the hd2 (which there currently isnt because with 1gb rom and 576 mb of ram, beats any other phone)(US version)
After a close look at everything and playing with a friends droid incredible while comparing it to my hd2, the only big advantages i could see to get an android phone would either be the open market place, google maps, speech to text.
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ok so you decide, hey let me dictate this msg. HERE IS AN IDEA, WHY NOT CALL THEM. (you might even get a chance to dictate it to someone listening).
the only place i can find real use for speech to text is while driving, and in that case, you technically shouldnt be using your phone PERIOD at that time.
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people keep griping (pronounce gryping) about googlemaps, but as great as googlemaps is, what happens when you lose your bars or do not have a data plan? *gulp* you are screwed. do yourself a favor and get a non-internet reliant gps software (like actual gps devices use), and i also feel that bing does a good job of matching googlemaps.
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THE MARKET PLACE. I do wish we had a market place, a nice central location where you can find everything you need. But i can tell you this, there are only so many apps you need until you get to the point where you are just trying to justify spending $X on a phone. A friend of mine while justifying how great his mytouch (android) phone is shows me all these apps he has. one app is a barcode scanner, and one app is google goggles. with goggles, the use of the barcode scanner is lost on me. (i think HD2 can also do that though). why go through all the trouble of opening your camera, looking for the barcode sending the item over the internet and all that when you could either just search for the barcode numbers (which funny enough is usually under the barcode) or searching for the items.
granted there are some nice apps like the statefarm pocket agent app out there, and most reputable companies(like banks etc) prefer to release apps for the iphone/android (my bank allows nexus one and iphone users take pics of check and automatically deposits the money into your account) but lets face it, most apps that people will need on a daily basis are also on winmo. An app that is used once or twice a month, while nice to have doesnt seem like that much of a big deal. Its kinda like getting a standby physician. Plus after a quick skim through the top apps on the marketplace, you find that 9/10 of all these apps are games (go figure), and even though they might be nice for your when you have to wait in a line or something, wouldnt a much larger screen be nicer to watch part of your fave tv show instead?
the hd2 has quite a few flaws, but the they are being fixed. Even though app development for windows 6.5 might go down when winmo7 comes out. I still like the HD2. I do not even think i would be switching to winmo7 since if i wanted an iphone, i would go get an iphone, i am not on facebook, twitter or any other social networking site.
only real reason i switched from my att tilt (the first one) was because the screen was so small and it had started to fall apart.
winmo by default sucks ass, but has limitless potential, where else would you find sms spammers, or american idol spammers (lol)
I'm not knocking android either, it has its perks and it would be nice to see what android is like on the hd2, but it makes little sense getting a winmo phone when you already knew you wanted an android phone, and then cluttering the boards asking for android. my winmo phone does everything i need it to do, so i am happy with it, i see my stocks, have my navigation from igo, have my alarm clock, IM, and calendar. ITS JUST LIKE BUYING A LAMBORGHINI AND COMPLAINING IT IS NOT A FERRARI.
only real sore point i can see no way around is flash coming to android. would have been nice to have flash but i guess i just have to take what i get.
Guys wasnt the main reason we fell in love with winmo because of the limitless possibilities?
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Each to its own. Now we have HD2, iPod Touch, iPhone 3GS, and iPad. We also got an Android phone in the family. Instead of pitching them against one another, we make them complement and work together. For example, we have the only mobile data plan we need on my iPhone - beside all the goodies it can offer, we use it as a wifi router for all our mobile devices.
The main reasons I bought HD2 were its beautiful/huge screen, and the xda-developers forum. I don't intend to upgrade to WM7 even if it was available.
The same kind of people that complain about WinMo and think their iphone is so much better are the kind of closed minded people that cant think for themselves, try something new, and actually embrace and learn it.
The iphone/ipad are created for one thing mass consumer media consumption, and apple getting a cut of every itunes/app store purchase, with the iphone having a phone built in. It's definitely a very smart business for apple, but not one that I want to be part of, since im quite capable of figuring out how to get apps, and media on my WinMo device without the need of itunes or an app store
Im sure like many others here happy with their WinMo Phones, you have probably been using WinMo phones for a long time already, and some like myself have been using WinMo before it was ever on phones and just a PDA. I still have my 1st WinMo PDA, a toshiba e750, amazing for how old it is, the processor in it is almost as fast as most of last years WinMo phones. I used to BT tether the PDA to my cell phone to be able to do email and web browsing, then finally got a T-Mobile MDA shortly after it came out to merge the 2 devices into one, though at a performance hit, because of the lower processor speed.
These phones are quite literally like having a desktop PC in your pocket, with android also being similar experience from what i've read, though i've not actually owned an android device to play with
I've been fascinated by "palmtop" portable computing for quite awhile, with my 1st such device being an HP 200LX palmtop running DOS 5. I still have that palmtop sitting on my desk and it works still too! I always wanted to get one of the palmtop format windows mobile devices (windows ce), but couldn't justify the expense at the time having just graduated from HS and in college. I also remember the laptop format WinMo devices.
I also find it fascinating to find windows mobile/ce in devices that people would have never expected it in, nor complain about because they cant see the underlying OS. an example is the car stereo I have, a Roadmaster VR3 VRVD640G. There are hacks for it that somewhat let you get into the underlying OS.
I recently recieved my Hd2 and I love it. It is my first WinMo powered device. I owned a G1 (Dream) and while I really liked it and Android, I think that WinMo 6.5 is a much more customizeable and powerful OS. The level of complexity is alot higher, however. That is what I think turns people off of WinMo. I am enjoying the undertaking of learning this new (to me) OS.
Edit: I do think that in time, as it matures and with devices such as the N1 and the Desire, Android will be a quite powerful OS.
you know im so happy to see that their are others out there that see past winmo on the HD2 and are taking more consideration for the hardware specs...ive had the gsm htc hero,the nexus one,desire,Nokia n900 etc. and honestly, i was completely let down by all of those devices,but,thats just been my experience with them. even though the winmo isnt as snappy as android or the iphone..its still is kick ass phone...not downplay winmos but they are working on the kernals for linux and WM7 and considering most devices,we have one the better devices to date and iam very content with wm6.5 and 6.5.5
Well symbian and windows mobile had been the most hated OS in the US and maybe windows mobile been hated all over the world. I think its a nice OS but I think windows slept on the development, I think it became so critical how much they slept on the OS that alot of people here knows the in and out of the OS with out been hired or took any training about the OS which to me that amazing and probably never seen in any other OS in the world. not to mention HTC took sense and did their part as well but you never see windows team developing anything. I almost didnt buy the HD2 for the simple fact microsoft decided to develop KIN and windows 7 series instead of giving us a better support.
HEY I DISAGREE......... but i must say thank you for the info u gave me more info then any carrier could give the hd2 is a bigger & faster device but the differences u pulled the hd2 also hav hd2 has googlemaps it also has text to speech wat people people fail to see and realize is that the andoid market allows u to demo the product winmo doesnt which is suck and thats why u hav guys like me that searches the web for the product for free its out here it just cost but most of the apps that the andoid market hav winmo also has its just a matter of searching for it. my job on here is test multiple software to see if it can run and work together without issuse and or bugs and to run on the hd2 without error its crazy i go to a site find software and its free then find it at another site that charges for it .... now i dont think i can list the sites because of forum rules and regs but there out there waitin on u but u hav googlemaps with buzz also microsoft myphone and microsoft voice command
ryan562 said:
if you really wanna see how android is gonna fare on the hd2, just check out your local sprint store and check out the htc sprint evo 4g.
that being said, i own both an hd2 and two android handsets that are rooted.
what i like most about win 6.5 is the ability to customize it as much as i can a rooted android phone i.e. overclock the cpu (i just found an app for it), custom theme, save apps to sd card, play flash videos etc etc.
however, i do feel that it is a bit outdated and is more complicated to use. takes a bit of a learning curve v. android os, which is more simple to use. i see tons of potential for windows mobile 6.5 but it's a damn shame that microsoft is moving on to a more closed platform with windows mobile 7.
long term, i will probably head back to android in that regard due to updates and that it just keeps getting better and better (upcoming froyo update and then the gingerbread update which will allow for the saving of apps to sd card, etc)
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wait it out and u will be able to run both the drod and winmo on the hd2 without problems
ryan562 said:
however, i do feel that it is a bit outdated and is more complicated to use. takes a bit of a learning curve v. android os, which is more simple to use. i see tons of potential for windows mobile 6.5 but it's a damn shame that microsoft is moving on to a more closed platform with windows mobile 7.
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I personally wonder if WinMo is as dead, atleast from a MS prospective as people are saying. Yes WinMo is used in many consumer phones which is what I see WinPhone7 replacing, but WinMo is used in MANY other places still.
Like my example of my car stereo in the post lastnight.
Symbol uses it in the "LRT" devices that many stores use for stock tracking. You see target employees carrying them all the time. hell APPLE stores used them with WinMo until they managed to hack a card reader onto their iphone.
The Symbol price check scanners you find at many retail stores are WinMo based. I've seen them crashed at walmart with the floating WinMo keyboard on top of their price check app.
I've seen symbol Pin entry/signature capture/card swipe terminals at stores like JC penny and the now defunct circuit city that i highly suspected to be running windows mobile due to the sound tones played while using the touch screen, they were the default for WinMo.
I highly suspect that Symbol is a huge WinMo customer of MS.
I've also recently been to the Seminole hard rock casino here in Tampa and noticed on some slot machines that the little screens just shows small ads had WinMo intenet explorer windows that had apparently got stuck while loading the next ad and you saw the default IE could not load page screen. I have no idea if the entire slot machine is WinMo based or just certain functions like that screen.
Yes i understand from a consumer prospective its pretty much dead because there will be no more releases for phones and app development is likely to die off as time goes on.
Also in alot of these cases it is more technically Windows CE, which windows mobile is a subset of, but its quite literally all the same code base, just a matter of what modules the OEM loads in their distribution
God knows how many other places it's running, you never know till you see one crashed or notice a few telltale signs. Some ATMs used to be Win98 based. Yes I quite literally saw an old style Win98 BSOD on one of my credit unions's ATM's years back. it was a Diebold machine. Would not surprise me if alot of them are WinMo or embedded XP now.
Hello everyone. I'm writing this review of the 1520 that I got Monday. I've be a android user for the last 3 years, my last android phone I had before switching to the Lumia 1520 was Galaxy Note 2.
Lets talk about my pass history of the Galaxy Note 2. I had the Note 2 for over a year. I me say that I loved it. That phone was everything i wanted in a phone. There was no limits with that phone. However, there that phone did have it own set of problems. Lets talk about the positives, The first big plus was android market. To this day right now, the android market is best, for it flexibility in apps. No other market is better in my opinion. Second, being able to custom note 2 was one the biggest reasons I loved my phone. With infinite amount of options, there was no limit on customizations. Lastly, the big screen. The most unique feature that separated itself from the rest of the other phones. Having a big screen help watching movies, reading docs and etc. As for the cons the two that sticks out for me were OS consist crashes almost daily after 3 months of use. Secondly, not effective in operating day to day use.
As for the Lumia 1520, let me say compared to my note 2 the quality of the device feel sweet. The phone runs fast, I mean really fast compared to my note 2 when i first used it. Granted Note 2 is older tech so I can't fairly use that as a plus.
Getting do the nitty-gritty, the effectiveness of 1520 windows 8 mobile os is much better than before. Microsoft did a nice job making this os user friendly. I find it easy to access the apps I want to use with Es. One of the cons of this OS is that its not really customize it, since it not really hackable yet. Also, windows app store is really lacking. I think for two reason, one windows mobile is new and third parties are not ready to commit to it yet. Lastly, programming apps for wp8 must be a pain in the a$$.
As for stuff like the camera, audio, etc, it all pretty much standard. Nokia camera this is cool, This phone does have SD slot, I don't like the internal storage is small, for such a nice phone.
Overall the phone is apair with note 3 and others. Microsoft has step up their game, but i do have to knock them on not supporting a more open OS so people can create better functionality with their products. That being said, I still think this phone is top notch and will get people buzzing.
A few points I want to address:
1) You claim "Windows Mobile is new". That is wrong for a number of reasons. The simplest one is because Windows Mobile is actually one of the oldest Smartphone operating systems, having been around since well before iOS, Android, Maemo/MeeGo/Jolla/whatever, or (most pertinently) Windows Phone.
Lumia phones do not run Windows Mobile. They run Windows Phone (in the case of the 1520, Windows Phone 8). These are not the same thing. People on XDA have been hacking WinMo for many, many years (again, since before most "modern" smartphone operating systems existed). Oh, and there's no such thing as "Windows 8 Mobile" (or "Windows 8 Phone" for that matter); there's the "Windows" line (which includes Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Win7, Win8, etc.) and the Windows Phone line (which includes WP7 and WP8) plus a handful of others that don't fall cleanly into either of those camps. Do not confuse these things, please!
2) Developing apps for WP is ridiculously easy. By almost any standard, Microsoft has better dev tools than any of the other mainline smartphone OSes. The "requirement" of Win8 for the WP8 SDK is annoying, but WP8 can still run WP7 apps, and the WP7 SDK runs fine on Win7. Besides, it's not hard to install (most of) the WP8 SDK on Win7. Anyhow, the problem is not a matter of difficulty writing apps. It's a matter of whether there's any return on investment. Android has a huge, ridiculous number of users, and while piracy of Android apps is more common than it should be, there's still a huge market. iOS has less market share than Android but is still firmly in second place, and iOS has a lot less piracy and people are a lot more willing to pay for apps, generally speaking, than on Android. WP is way down in third place - barely above fourth, and far below iOS in second - and while it has very little piracy, it barely matters when there are so few users. Complaining abou the lack of software for WP8 is like complaining about the lack of software for Mac OS X; when you're around (or below) 10% of the market, you're a bit player who may be net *loss* to develop for when developers can focus on more profitable platforms instead.
Nice review Vallista, I got my red 1520 last friday and love it, I've had the Dell Streak 5 for 2 1/2years and love that phone to.I was wondering if I wanted to have windows since I really like android, but thought I would try something different since I also recently got the note 8, so I've got a great android device, which I can also make phone and video calls with.I like the effort windows has made and think they will continue making their store better, I'm still trying out different apps,and customizing it like I like it, overall I love the phone and the style of it, my brother just got a red one in the mail yesterday! I made a skype call to my mom's iphone 4 and it works great!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
GoodDayToDie said:
A few points I want to address:
1) You claim "Windows Mobile is new". That is wrong for a number of reasons. The simplest one is because Windows Mobile is actually one of the oldest Smartphone operating systems, having been around since well before iOS, Android, Maemo/MeeGo/Jolla/whatever, or (most pertinently) Windows Phone.
Lumia phones do not run Windows Mobile. They run Windows Phone (in the case of the 1520, Windows Phone 8). These are not the same thing. People on XDA have been hacking WinMo for many, many years (again, since before most "modern" smartphone operating systems existed). Oh, and there's no such thing as "Windows 8 Mobile" (or "Windows 8 Phone" for that matter); there's the "Windows" line (which includes Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Win7, Win8, etc.) and the Windows Phone line (which includes WP7 and WP8) plus a handful of others that don't fall cleanly into either of those camps. Do not confuse these things, please!
2) Developing apps for WP is ridiculously easy. By almost any standard, Microsoft has better dev tools than any of the other mainline smartphone OSes. The "requirement" of Win8 for the WP8 SDK is annoying, but WP8 can still run WP7 apps, and the WP7 SDK runs fine on Win7. Besides, it's not hard to install (most of) the WP8 SDK on Win7. Anyhow, the problem is not a matter of difficulty writing apps. It's a matter of whether there's any return on investment. Android has a huge, ridiculous number of users, and while piracy of Android apps is more common than it should be, there's still a huge market. iOS has less market share than Android but is still firmly in second place, and iOS has a lot less piracy and people are a lot more willing to pay for apps, generally speaking, than on Android. WP is way down in third place - barely above fourth, and far below iOS in second - and while it has very little piracy, it barely matters when there are so few users. Complaining abou the lack of software for WP8 is like complaining about the lack of software for Mac OS X; when you're around (or below) 10% of the market, you're a bit player who may be net *loss* to develop for when developers can focus on more profitable platforms instead.
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let me address this, WP8 or whatever proper name you want to call it is still Windows 8 mobile. I don't want to get into a fight over the proper names. Should I be calling android by it proper name? KitKat? Icecream? Jellybean? and etc? As far I and most common users are concern its windows. Why? Mainly because people are starting to be aware of windows now as a real os option for phones. You couldn't say that 5 years ago.
Secondly, You really think its that easy? Then why aren't all of these apps that are so easy to get in iOS and android not on windows? For and example, I have three banks I use. Out of the three, one has mobile app for windows. These are all major banks. You can say all you want "it because of this or that" at the end of the day windows is lagging behind. Microsoft needs to do a better job of promoting their os. That all I was trying to say. In fact, in my class this morning, my professor ask us "How many people had apple or android" as a phone device. Over 80% had apple and 20% android. It didn't cross his mind to ask if people were using some outside of those two. My point here is now that Microsoft owns nokia, The market will view them as new competitor in the phone market. They might have had this os for long time, but as of now, common users will view them as new. Me walking around with my phone today, people asked me who makes that. Once I told them, they were surprised.
GoodDayToDie said:
A few points I want to address:
1) You claim "Windows Mobile is new". That is wrong for a number of reasons. The simplest one is because Windows Mobile is actually one of the oldest Smartphone operating systems, having been around since well before iOS, Android, Maemo/MeeGo/Jolla/whatever, or (most pertinently) Windows Phone.
Lumia phones do not run Windows Mobile. They run Windows Phone (in the case of the 1520, Windows Phone 8). These are not the same thing. People on XDA have been hacking WinMo for many, many years (again, since before most "modern" smartphone operating systems existed). Oh, and there's no such thing as "Windows 8 Mobile" (or "Windows 8 Phone" for that matter); there's the "Windows" line (which includes Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Win7, Win8, etc.) and the Windows Phone line (which includes WP7 and WP8) plus a handful of others that don't fall cleanly into either of those camps. Do not confuse these things, please!
2) Developing apps for WP is ridiculously easy. By almost any standard, Microsoft has better dev tools than any of the other mainline smartphone OSes. The "requirement" of Win8 for the WP8 SDK is annoying, but WP8 can still run WP7 apps, and the WP7 SDK runs fine on Win7. Besides, it's not hard to install (most of) the WP8 SDK on Win7. Anyhow, the problem is not a matter of difficulty writing apps. It's a matter of whether there's any return on investment. Android has a huge, ridiculous number of users, and while piracy of Android apps is more common than it should be, there's still a huge market. iOS has less market share than Android but is still firmly in second place, and iOS has a lot less piracy and people are a lot more willing to pay for apps, generally speaking, than on Android. WP is way down in third place - barely above fourth, and far below iOS in second - and while it has very little piracy, it barely matters when there are so few users. Complaining abou the lack of software for WP8 is like complaining about the lack of software for Mac OS X; when you're around (or below) 10% of the market, you're a bit player who may be net *loss* to develop for when developers can focus on more profitable platforms instead.
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Trail70rider said:
Nice review Vallista, I got my red 1520 last friday and love it, I've had the Dell Streak 5 for 2 1/2years and love that phone to.I was wondering if I wanted to have windows since I really like android, but thought I would try something different since I also recently got the note 8, so I've got a great android device, which I can also make phone and video calls with.I like the effort windows has made and think they will continue making their store better, I'm still trying out different apps,and customizing it like I like it, overall I love the phone and the style of it, my brother just got a red one in the mail yesterday! I made a skype call to my mom's iphone 4 and it works great!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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This phone is soo sick.
Vallista said:
let me address this, WP8 or whatever proper name you want to call it is still Windows 8 mobile. I don't want to get into a fight over the proper names.
Why aren't all of these apps that are so easy to get in iOS and android not on windows? In fact, in my class this morning, my professor ask us "How many people had apple or android" as a phone device. Over 80% had apple and 20% android. It didn't cross his mind to ask if people were using some outside of those two. My point here is now that Microsoft owns nokia, The market will view them as new competitor in the phone market.
They might have had this os for long time, but as of now, common users will view them as new. Me walking around with my phone today, people asked me who makes that. Once I told them, they were surprised.
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It does matter. Its like calling android something else before it was android. Like GoogleOS, instead of Android. Windows Phone is completely different from Windows Mobile. Windows Phone 7 and 8 is like comparing XP to 7 or 8. Windows XP and Windows Mobile 4-6.5 is extremely easy to modify compared to Windows Phone 7 or its desktop counterpart. Windows Phone 7 was their 'aha! Scrap everything and start over!' moment. WP8 is essentially their solution to fix what was wrong with WP7 and make it easier to manufacture e.g. GDR2 (support more ram) and GDR3 (supports full 1080p).
Windows Phone apps do take longer to publish when coming over from another platform. Most of the gamers who use WP know, because a game will essentially launch on all devices and then launch on Windows Phone MONTHS later sometime a whole year afterwards. SEGA is one those companies that are terrible about this. But this is understandable because of how "effectively" just about all apps run on WP7 or 8. They don't murder your ram or kill your battery. All background stuff is scheduled to run instead of being an evil TSR just taking more up as it runs longer and longer.
If you re writing a WP app from scratch and not porting it, you can "design" one in a matter of time. Heck, all of my apps I didn't even code. I generated them and semi-published them in a matter of an hours of work.
Sure its just a bunch of URLs, but it gets the job done. I intend on tweaking it again soon anyways.
I don't ever get asked about windows phones, except when a friend mine borrowed it for taking a picture in a dark environment e.g fancy winery dinner. Most of the place was candle lit and everything looked great for a smartphone, good for a camera.
Anyways Motorola is to Google as Nokia is to Microsoft. They were just following suit...
Sent from my Lumia 928 using Tapatalk
"Windows 8 mobile" is a remarkably (pardon my bluntness) stupid term for this OS. "Windows Phone 8" is very nearly as stupid (and that one is Microsoft's fault), but it does at least have two advantages: it distinguishes the Windows line from the Windows Phone line, and it's official. Besides, if you actually wanted to call something "Windows 8 mobile", it would make at least a *little* bit of sense to apply that term to Windows RT, which is a "mobile" (tablet, specifically) OS that actually looks like, and runs a lot of the same software as, Windows 8.
Suggesting that Windows Phone "is still Windows" is ridiculous, patently absurd on the face of it. They don't have the same UI (even ignoring the desktop, "Metro" apps in Win8 look and are interacted with differently from those on the phone, and the Start screens look and are arranged and interacted with differently). They don't run the same software (even where processor architecture isn't an issue, such as with pure .NET apps), although at some point in the future they may be merged to do so. They don't use the same user model (Windows Phone is a single-user system with only an "unlock the screen" protection; Windows - 8 or any other version of the NT desktop line - is a multi-user operating system where users must log into their accounts to use the system). They don't communicate with other computers the same way (Windows supports "Windows networking", including Homegroups, over SMB; Windows Phone has no SMB support but can act as an MTP client device over USB). They don't use the same security model (there's no support for user-accessible "full-trust" apps on Windows Phone; everything must run in an app sandbox). They don't run on the same hardware... do I really need to go on?
There are really only two meaningful similarities between Windows and Windows Phone (no, Microsoft's bone-headed branding does not meet the bar of "meaningful"). First, they both use the Win32 and WinRT APIs (well, sort of; the phone tries to block access to most of Win32 and is missing some of WinRT that the desktop has, the desktop is missing some of the stuff that the phone has too, though). Second, they both use the NT kernel. That's it. The way they sandbox apps is kind of the same, but only kind of (they don't even use the same capability lists, which incidentally is going to make that hypothetical merging of the app ecosystems kind of tricky). The UI has about in much in common between Windows Phone and Windows as Windows (7 or 8, at least) have in common with OS X.
Android's proper name is "Android" (OK, you can append a version number, or version name, if you want). It runs on the Linux kernel, just like MeeGo, WebOS, Ubuntu, and RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux). Turns out that using the kernel as a determiner of "these operating systems are the same" is a really bad idea. Besides, if you were going to do *that*, then you'd have to argue that Windows Phone is one of the oldest smartphone operating systems, since WP7 runs on the CE kernel whose earlier versions powered handheld "smart" devices clear back to 1996.
As for the apps thing... how many WP apps have you written? Do you actually have the least idea how hard or easy it is? I've been writing WP apps for three years now, and I've also written Android apps and reviewed iOS apps. Neither one has as good of tools, and both require more work on the part of the developer to make the app *work*.
Vallista said:
You can say all you want "it because of this or that" at the end of the day windows is lagging behind.
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I *told* you the reason! It wasn't a "it's because this or that" in the least. Apparently, though, you are wither too wrapped up in your own prejudices to face facts, or you're illiterate... In any case, MS is spending a ton of money trying to promote WP. I happen to think their marketing sucks, but c'est la vie.
GoodDayToDie said:
"Windows 8 mobile" is a remarkably (pardon my bluntness) stupid term for this OS. "Windows Phone 8" is very nearly as stupid (and that one is Microsoft's fault), but it does at least have two advantages: it distinguishes the Windows line from the Windows Phone line, and it's official. Besides, if you actually wanted to call something "Windows 8 mobile", it would make at least a *little* bit of sense to apply that term to Windows RT, which is a "mobile" (tablet, specifically) OS that actually looks like, and runs a lot of the same software as, Windows 8.
Suggesting that Windows Phone "is still Windows" is ridiculous, patently absurd on the face of it. They don't have the same UI (even ignoring the desktop, "Metro" apps in Win8 look and are interacted with differently from those on the phone, and the Start screens look and are arranged and interacted with differently). They don't run the same software (even where processor architecture isn't an issue, such as with pure .NET apps), although at some point in the future they may be merged to do so. They don't use the same user model (Windows Phone is a single-user system with only an "unlock the screen" protection; Windows - 8 or any other version of the NT desktop line - is a multi-user operating system where users must log into their accounts to use the system). They don't communicate with other computers the same way (Windows supports "Windows networking", including Homegroups, over SMB; Windows Phone has no SMB support but can act as an MTP client device over USB). They don't use the same security model (there's no support for user-accessible "full-trust" apps on Windows Phone; everything must run in an app sandbox). They don't run on the same hardware... do I really need to go on?
There are really only two meaningful similarities between Windows and Windows Phone (no, Microsoft's bone-headed branding does not meet the bar of "meaningful"). First, they both use the Win32 and WinRT APIs (well, sort of; the phone tries to block access to most of Win32 and is missing some of WinRT that the desktop has, the desktop is missing some of the stuff that the phone has too, though). Second, they both use the NT kernel. That's it. The way they sandbox apps is kind of the same, but only kind of (they don't even use the same capability lists, which incidentally is going to make that hypothetical merging of the app ecosystems kind of tricky). The UI has about in much in common between Windows Phone and Windows as Windows (7 or 8, at least) have in common with OS X.
Android's proper name is "Android" (OK, you can append a version number, or version name, if you want). It runs on the Linux kernel, just like MeeGo, WebOS, Ubuntu, and RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux). Turns out that using the kernel as a determiner of "these operating systems are the same" is a really bad idea. Besides, if you were going to do *that*, then you'd have to argue that Windows Phone is one of the oldest smartphone operating systems, since WP7 runs on the CE kernel whose earlier versions powered handheld "smart" devices clear back to 1996.
As for the apps thing... how many WP apps have you written? Do you actually have the least idea how hard or easy it is? I've been writing WP apps for three years now, and I've also written Android apps and reviewed iOS apps. Neither one has as good of tools, and both require more work on the part of the developer to make the app *work*.
I *told* you the reason! It wasn't a "it's because this or that" in the least. Apparently, though, you are wither too wrapped up in your own prejudices to face facts, or you're illiterate... In any case, MS is spending a ton of money trying to promote WP. I happen to think their marketing sucks, but c'est la vie.
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wow what an ego. Look its a Windows Phone period. If your gonna be butt hurt over the name, have a it hoss. Secondly, for a guy who he thinks know everything about Microsoft you really know nothing. You have no idea how or why Microsoft operates the way they do. So when make you own OS or phone device then you can talk. This was suppose be a basic review on windows phone I liked. But some want to focus on names.
A) I actually worked at MS, years ago. In fairness, though, I would never have expected the company to make some of the more braindead policy decisions it's made recently. I still know people who work there, though (living in this area, in the tech sector, you pretty much can't help it), and it doesn't seem like much has changed.
B) It doesn't take a lot of brains to understand how the software industry (including smartphone operating systems and apps) works, even if you *haven't* worked in it your entire adult life. But I suppose you do have to actually attempt to understand the problem, instead of throwing up your hands and complaining about it.
C) I actually have designed and written my own (tiny) OS for an embedded device, not that that makes me unusually qualified to talk about smartphone OSes.
D) I was trying to be helpful and informative, but apparently that point - like so many others - passed you by. Cool, you liked the Lumia 1520. Too bad you apparently didn't even know what OS it runs (hint: not Windows). I wouldn't have bothered writing anything past the first post, which was just to set the record straight (for both yourself and the people who might read your review and become confused) on a couple points, but I guess you couldn't have that...
Well, it made sense when it actually had a resemblance to Windows way back, but that's before they called the whole thing Windows Compact edition. Sure it was the base of a lot of various small devices that didn't have the power of their laptops then and was way more portable, like some cell phones. You could almost compare them with Palm, and at the same time RIM, but that's before they ever had the Blackberry if I recall correctly.
They could have dropped the windows name on their phones, but I'm not too sure it would have lost its product familiarity, and could have been obscured like the Kin and Kin II.
WP7 was obscure on anything besides at&t, and they didn't support CDMA day one either. This kinda messed up the US market, while the rest of the world couldn't have cared more, except Korea? and china (they use a derivative of CDMA.)
To think of the wp7 market share was so small, it was almost unheard of. It still buggs me that Cincinnati Bell still calls it Windows Mobile...
To get back on track, they could use a lesson with customization. It would be cool to swap fonts or change the text on the lock screen so it doesn't take up a quarter of the screen. Its bad for ricing and doesn't sit well with some people. But I don't ever actually see it happening. After all they haven't budged on changing some core features yet....
Sent from my RM-860 using Tapatalk
I like how you say the 1520 is on par with the note 3 even though you've never actually used it for an extended period (if at all) - instead you're comparing a prev gen phone (with probably fixable software issues) with a current gen one...
Just saying...
Apps, WP8 OS and its restrictiveness (some call it security) aside, the core problem with the 1520 and other Phablet phones on WP8 at the moment is simply this: WP8 is not optimised for phablets.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/the-lumia-1520-enormous-hardware-troublesome-software/2/
liqn7 said:
I like how you say the 1520 is on par with the note 3 even though you've never actually used it for an extended period (if at all) - instead you're comparing a prev gen phone (with probably fixable software issues) with a current gen one...
Just saying...
Apps, WP8 OS and its restrictiveness (some call it security) aside, the core problem with the 1520 and other Phablet phones on WP8 at the moment is simply this: WP8 is not optimised for phablets.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/the-lumia-1520-enormous-hardware-troublesome-software/2/
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I never said it was on par with note 3. I'm saying this phone does everything I did on my note 2. The note 3 has tech the 1520 doesn't have.
Good review, Nice to hear something positive for a change, I have a White Lumia 1520, Got it Monday and love it, Compared to my previous Lumia 920 and other Windows Phones I have owned it simply is the best, That is just my opinion, Some ppl will find it too large to handle comfortably, I have large hands so not a problem, It is perfect for my usage,
Have to agree that the OS does need some further optimisations for Phablets as some things and Apps display just too large
Thank for you for the review Vallista.
As for your little back and forth...I could call anything well anything, it doesn't mean people would understand me. Using proper terminology seems to me...to be akin to using the correct syntax and terminologies when going into your local swag bar and asking for 2 fingers of Laphroaig, neat. One can not simply order a Scotch and expect the same result.
From A Note 1 to the 1520
I was given a Surface at work pilot in our environment, and was very impressed with it. My Note 1 was long overdue to be replaced (but flapjax ROM's ran so great its kept up fine), and so I opted to give Windows Phone 8 a go. I had previously used WinMo 5 and 6, followed by a very brief run with the iPhone, and stuck with Android for about 3 years.
I miss the ability to customize, a lot. Admittedly I didn't do a lot of research going into WP8, but not being able to change DPI etc is disappointing. I feel like I'm back in the iPhone sandbox. I do really like the hardware of this device, and there are some aspects of WP8 that I really appreciate. Having Office on my phone has been a lifesaver for school. I like trying new things so it's still fun finding a lot of the nuances, but I really wish I could start flashing something better than the stock ROM.
The Lumia 1520 is an awesome device, and WP8 runs very smoothly on it out of the box. I would consider WP8 better than iOS, but Android will still win until Microsoft allows the users of their device to fine tune more settings of their device. I won't hold my breath for that, but I'll contribute as much as I can here on XDA to help a dev make it happen.
Got Lumia
I have similar story - moved from Note 2 to White Lumia 1520. I wrote some programs for android before and I like android and never had any problem with Note 2 but.. sometimes it is useful for people to get out of comfort :laugh:
I wrote programs for WM too but SDK for WP8 is completely different and more complex in my opinion. Maybe this is just first impression.
The device itself is really cool, I like it. WP8 is too strict and have few applications. Similar was when I had Dell Streak 5 with Android 1.6 as my first android device - at that time people laugh at me like I see in this thread. Hope that Microsoft will catch up, improve WP8 fast.
Check out our stunning photos made with Lumia 1520 and Nokia Camera
More inside
http://www.windowsmania.pl/dyskusja...przy-swiecach-czyli-seria-wigilijna-raw-7809/
Too bad the marketing department at Microsoft and Nokia didn't capture my wife's opinion of the 1520 because it would be a good commercial. My wife hates technology and has no interest in learning new devices...If fact she didn't want to even upgrade her iphone. Then the other day we walk into the Microsoft Store and she sees the 1520 and immediately said she wanted it. I thought that was particularly interesting since she laughed at the size of my Note 3. She left Sprint and the IPhone to move to the Nokia. She even had to pay more per month. She loves it. Not much more I can say except I love it too. I am not ready to give up my Note 3 and Galaxy Gear but think the 1520 is really well done.
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djtonka said:
Check out our stunning photos made with Lumia 1520 and Nokia Camera
More inside
http://www.windowsmania.pl/dyskusja...przy-swiecach-czyli-seria-wigilijna-raw-7809/
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What settings did you use to get that photo?
Sent from my Xperia™ Tablet Z
Vallista said:
This was suppose be a basic review on windows phone I liked. But some want to focus on names.
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Thanks for the review . Like you I used to own a Note 2 and liked it.. at first, but I found it was a little big for me. I must be honest though, I mustve owned about 10 Android phones and I was never happy, even with the stunning hardware of the HTC One.. i traded and sold them back and forwards and it was only when I bought my first Ativ S, I was instantly converted. Now I own a 925 and love it, wanting a 1020 when its price comes down.
The question I asked myself was .. What makes WP8 great over Android?. which the simple answer is "It just works flawlessly".