Database Users

WOOOT Android will Leapfrog Iphone

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/57664
Watch out, iPhone—Android's nipping at your heels.
Researchers at Gartner (via AppleInsider) are predicting that the global market share for Google's Android mobile OS could overtake the iPhone's in a little over two years, with Android poised to leapfrog Apple into the No. 2 spot.
That would leave the iPhone in the No. 3 position—right where it is now, behind BlackBerry and Nokia's Symbian OS, according to Gartner. The industry researchers believe that by 2012, Research in Motion (the company behind the BlackBerry) will have lost 7 percent of its market share, causing it to slip into fifth place (behind even Windows Mobile). Android, meanwhile, will get a 12.9-percent boost to become the No. 2 smartphone platform in the world, with Symbian still safe in the No. 1 spot (with a dominating, although dwindling, 39 percent of the global market).
Those are just analyst predictions, of course, and two years is an eternity in the wireless world; after all, two years ago today, we were still getting used to the first iPhone.
That said, I think the gist of Gartner's prediction—that Android is poised to take the wireless market by storm—is spot on, and we've seen evidence of that in the past few months and weeks.
Google's open-source Android platform—which boasts one of the finest touchscreen interfaces out there, iPhone included—came slow out of the gates in fall 2008 with the solid, if uninspiring T-Mobile G1. We had to wait almost a year for the next Android phone in the U.S., but we finally got one this past August with the G1's follow-up, the HTC-made myTouch 3G (also on T-Mobile).
Soon after, what started as a trickle quickly became a flood. Sprint trotted out its first Android phone, the eye-catching, touchscreen HTC Hero, and then T-Mobile followed suit with the Motorola Cliq, its third Android handset ... followed by the Samsung Behold II just a few days ago. On Tuesday, Verizon Wireless announced it would launch a pair of Android phones before the end of the year, while Sprint announced its second Android phone—the Samsung Moment—a day later. Oh, and now there's rumors that Dell wants in on the Android action, with a new handset possible slated for iPhone carrier AT&T.
Let's see, that's ... one, two, three, four ... five new Android phones in in the past few months, with two more—and possibly even a third—due by the end of the year, from two (or maybe three) different manufacturers and three (possibly four) carriers. Some will be better than others, but consumers will have plenty of models (and carriers) from which to choose.
Of course, a bunch of new phones on the market doesn't mean diddly unless someone buys them, and for now, Apple has a solid 10.8- versus 1.6-percent lead over Android in terms of global smartphone market share. But Apple is the only company making iPhones, while the open-source (and high-quality) Android platform is available to all manufacturers and carriers—and from what we've been seeing, they're taking the ball and running with it.

I phone killa!

never touched an iphone and probly never will.

phatmanxxl said:
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
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Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!

unless android devices leap away from qualcomm chipset, i'm not sure about the end user satisfaction
i've tried quite a few qualcomm based devices, some non-smartphones as well, and i have to say they all suck compared to non-qualcomm based devices, sucky multimedia, sucky network performance!
try htc diamond & i-mate 8150 side by side, you'll will know what i'm talking about

X-i-phoner said:
Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
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I got nothing against iphones really. im sure if I got to use one for a day I'd probly like it. But being on T-mobile for over over 5 years I tend to only pay attention to T-mo and At&t phones.
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.

phatmanxxl said:
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
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Agreed, I can also see android doing the same stuff apple is now too.

Back in the early days of the PC when it was Apple vs IBM, IBM won because they licensed their architecture to various manufactures which were then able to make 100% Compatible IBM clones. Apple on the other hand insisted that it keep manufacturing in house, and look what happened.
~20 years later we may see history repeat itself.

You can't assume that apple is going for world domination. Their past successes have been based entirely off the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, which they are likely to hold on to no matter what anyone else does.
The reason for their *temporary* position in the smartphone business is simple; they happened to be in the right place at the right time... and very lucky. A few years ago, palm was in a position to dominate the smartphone market, but they dragged their feet and allowed ugly-as-the-1970's RIM to capture the business user market. Palm *used to* have the business market, and even had a (at the time) very slick and colorful UI with touch screen and more features than you could shake a stick at, and at a time when RIM had clunky black-and-white displays, no graphics to speak of, and that stupid roller wheel. So at a time when a smartphone only really made sense to a business user, palm had devices that were actually quite attractive to just about everybody, but they stagnated rather than taking advantage of what they had, which left them in a very weak state when apple showed up to take the *entire* non-business smartphone market -- right at the time when it started making sense for *everybody* to have a smartphone.
So right before 'droid showed up, the smartphone market was severely skewed... on one hand, you had RIM with all the business market, on the other hand, you had apple with all the pleasure market. Android though, has the potential to be everything for everybody, and by everybody I mean google and the OHA, phone manufacturers, carriers, and even users.
If their computer business is any indication, apple isn't about to drop their prices to anything sensible -- they're still sitting at about FOUR TIMES what it would cost for generic hardware. For whatever reason, this appeals to the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, that, along with the shinyness... MEANING: there are going to be TONS of manufacturers wielding android, COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER regarding prices. Which is a great thing. It means that we can look forward to very inexpensive 'droid devices while the likes of apple price themselves out of the market. Even now, the current i-phony is about $200 CDN more than Dream or Magic -- and don't give any crap that its "better" -- it does, after all, run their crap software.
Somebody said symbian? The fact that the world's cheapest mobile phone manufacturer wants to call their crap proprietary firmware by some name doesn't make it a dominating factor in anyone's opinion. Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of), every provider gives them away for FREE to anybody who signs up for a contract.... since many people already HAVE a phone that they want to use and the carrier forces them into the contract anyways, they get a free phone that may never even get removed from the box. In fact, I have a BOX full of them myself, more of them than any other phone, and yet not a single one of them has so much as been turned on. And yet it counts as a sale in favor of "symbian". So by my math, about half the mobile phones delivered are the "free" ones that come with the contract.

lbcoder said:
Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of),.
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http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online?CMP=KNC-SEM_001&site=Google&device=BuyOnline
The n97 and n900 are sweet phones. Nokias market is dominating in china and japan. Many other places dont get to see all the cool stuff Noika puts out because Nokia doesnt need to advertise it anywhere else. My little bro got the N95 developer edition the day it came out, He still has it and it is still really advanced compared to most phones.

I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.

phatmanxxl said:
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Two things about your prediction...
1. Companies can have more input as to what goes into their business phones.
Imagine my company XYZ starts a contract for the carrier to provide a specific hardware/cellular platform. I can then take that hardware platform and load my customized Android platform onto it. What company wouldn't want that level of control over their business assets? You certainly can't get that with RIM.
2. The carriers, more than anyone, decide what functions a particular phone is marketed towards. From a financial and support perspective, what carrier wouldn't want to have a single OS for all device types and just load in specific apps to cater to specific functions? (Warning: Pie in the sky opinion follows.) Need a business phone? Here is our business suite on our business hardware. Want a gamer device? Here is our game hardware with our game suite. Support would be simplified because under the hood it all works very similarly.
And my prediction...
You will see business class Android devices much sooner than you think. Just because they have not been announced yet does not mean that they are not already in the works. It is a smart move for Google to market towards the prosumers first and businesses later. Let the prosumers work out the kinks and storm the business market later with your well tested and hardened OS. Basically, we (the devs here mainly) are doing most of the work for them... (Queue Adam Sandler) FOR FREEEEEEEE!

The only thing the iPhone has against the G1 is the fact that its thinner, but now we have the MyTouch which runs Android and is also thin...Suck it Apple!

phatmanxxl said:
...and by far the best damn keyboards ever.
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You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.

lbcoder said:
You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
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lol u tell him
but IMO blackberry devices are very visually appealing. i think the sprint hero, samsung moment, moto cliq, LGs first android, samsung glaxy and lite version all look ugly.
and i like some of the apps apple have. i just want to see a completed multiplayer fps on android.

WM is following iPhone and Android is creating a new market. iPhone is too heavy with the iTune and paid apps as well.
Love my Android G2. Open platform is what we need

I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?

The reasoning is simple... pride. And money.
Android isn't just something that is *there to use*. Many of us have a lot of time invested in the platform and it not only feels good for it to be successful, it is also financially rewarding. i-phony is right now the most recognizable mobile phone, so it is naturally the target to BEAT.
chefgon said:
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
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I'm talking about the pearl, curve and curve 2. well, I really like those keyboards, just my opinion. I never had any problems using them. Microsoft/Danger abandoned project pink (supposed to be the new danger os) sidekicks are rumored to be phased out anyway. Also with the major data outage, they have no access to their contacts, t-mail and calender for almost a month now, a lot of those customers I'm sure will move to Android.
and until corporate and business owners start handing out Google phones instead of blackberrys, RIM does have one up over Android

Windows7 looks and sounds overhyped

i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines

jbanga86 said:
i know im not the only one that thinks this....i love new features and upgrades just as much as anyone but it seems the goal of windows 7 is to take away the customization experience of windows and bring consumers closer with microsoft then closer 2 their device. No flash, No skins, limited apps, and lets be honest who wants a device that looks exactly the same as another person device, u could take a million hd2 and none will look exactly like mines
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I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130

anything short of 5 pages and this thread will be a failure!

dwizzy130 said:
I say save these comments till after it comes out and you actually use it.
And it's Windows Phone 7 Series, not Windows 7.
dwizzy130
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I'd agree if it was for ALL comments on the awesomeness OR failure of WP7s.

lol all im saying is if we wanted a zune we would buy a zune!
seriously ever since the thing came out they been talking about
making it a phone and now this is new news?
psht! they have a few ideas on point though like the whole
finger friendly thing, but to me its like buying a new house
with thin walls or move into a comfy old brick home
yeah the lighting fixtures is up to date but what about the foundation

I love the new interface. I love the accent that is being layed on the text. From what i've seen it's like browsing through a magazine. Well thought, because in the end, mostly it's text with what you're dealing with on this type of devices.
No really, i'm very thrilled about the new design. And with the new silverlight based development framework I think that we can expect more useful applications that are focussed on what they are supposed to do and less on the user interface.

The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.

seed_al said:
The UI is awesome. Other than that, it's just an iPhone copy with the same bad policies, like censorship and no multitasking, no file system access etc.
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WP7S, No cutomizability, locked eco system, no multi tasking.
Dont u think it defeats the purpose of WinMO.
I hope it will be a big failure. The reason i got WinMO instead of anything else is because of the power of freedom it has. WP7S killed that.
and yes, its just as hyped up as iphone before it was release. NOthing more. Its not revolutionary, its just pretty with no brain.
The start or home screen may look pretty, but its functionless. U have to scroll a lot to see info. I think the novelty will wear off faster then the iphone.

Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.

seed_al said:
Good post, Frostlance, very good post... it's sad how they destroyed everything good about Windows Mobile. I'm not at all interested in a stupid locked down system.
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And not only that, they way they made WP7S Backwards incompatible also means MS just killed WinMO6.5 and previous versions.
Developers are abandoning WinMO 6.5 1 by 1, started with adobe , then Skype, and many more to come.
We were waiting for Flash 10.1 anxiously, seeing the beta version test on OUR HD2, but in the end, they discontinued their support for WinMO.
As Steve Ballmer Said " OS are nothing without Developers, Developers Developers , (he goes on saying developers many2 times)
And that is the fate of WinMO 6.5. With no Developer support, Our BELOVED OS, is becoming NOthing.
To tell you the truth,ive been a loyal WinMO user since 2000. I relied heavily on its apps (esp medical applications,helps me a lot with my work as a doctor and manage my patients data). Now ive heard from a friend in skyscape,a major medical apps developer for WinMO, that they will also discontinue support for WinMO. Now this really saddens me really.
For a phone(expensive phone in fact) which i bought just 2 months ago, will no longer provide me new apps, new updates to my medical apps, no flash (A BIG WASTE , With our huge gorgeous screen,we cant even load flash content!).
I envy those using android, updating their OS constantly, and getting apps like google earth,goggle and etc which we were once promised to be given,now all left is a dream.
MS has killed our beloved WinMO. It is a sad news for all of us. WP7S is more like a curse then a blessing.

I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.

Espentf said:
I'd rather buy an iPhone than any WP7S device.
Both are locked down crap systems without multitasking from my POV.
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But WP7S has better hardware and a better UI. So, IF you buy a locked down crap system, you really should get a WP7S phone.
But of course, you shouldn't buy a locked down crap system.

seed_al said:
But WP7S has better hardware
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Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.

Shasarak said:
Do we know enough about the iPhone 4 to be sure that its hardware will be inferior to WP7S phones? We'll be about half way between that and its replacement when WP7 starts to get going.
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We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.

seed_al said:
We know nothing about iPhone 4, but Apple's iPhone hardware has ALWAYS been at least half a year behind HTC's. I don't expect that to change.
iPhone 4 would need a WVGA display, a 1GHz processor, 448MB RAM, a five megapixel camera with dual LED flash, much much better materials... in order to be "only" half a year behind again. In other words: No way. They're not going to catch up anytime soon.
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The strange thing is that if the WP7 is really a closed down system without multitasking it would not need such advanced hardware for it. The need of so much memory and processor power is precisely because of the multitasking when a user can run several applications simultaneously. Otherwise you can have a good user experience with much less memory and processor power like in case of the iPhone.

This thread will be better if it has a poll on it.
I think it is hyped too. I really prefer the HTC interface and customization freedom of the HD2 against the new design of windows mobile 7. I have my device so customized that I can access every feature with a few clicks (AE button plus and multiple button press) I dont see that coming soon in WM7, you need to scroll a lot with your finger to actually go anywhere. And what botters me more is that it looks like "multimedia oriented" and not "bussisness" oriented.
If they close the platform like Apple they will loose al the support of the comunity. I really think WebOs look more interesting as a new modern platform (but they still lack variety of applications)
If there is no oficial WM7 update to the HD2, I really dont care. (we know the chef here will be realising it and even with a newer rom)

What not being said may be the most revealing.
Other than a few picture and limited stories from just a few people (MS insiders) what do we really know about WM7?
With all the stories about what WM7 cannot do, you start to wonder if there is something that we are not being told about the new OS.
For instance:
* MS Voice Command has not had any real updates for a number of years. Is there a (much improved) new version in WM7?
* Wireless/Blue tooth set up? (better setup etc?)
* Haptic interface,
* camera and other elements used in a more interactive way for interface?
* New/updated/Improved version of transcriber?
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!

No option for both? I think bits are great and bits are over hyped.

1) Maybe it´s going to be the same story as with Win Vista: faulty, crappy, resource-hungry, no benefits. Good for the basic user that only surfs with IE, listens to music, watches videos, e-mails and uploads videos on YouTube
2) NO software is uncrackable ! Wonder what the experts here on XDA will do with WM7 ! When I received my HD2 in November it wasn´t much more than my Touch HD, a little bit faster though. Now with all the geniousses here in this forum it is a rocket of a PDA that spared me the investment into a Sony Vaio P
3) I eagerly wait for the HD3 at the end of the year, wait this time some months ´till I buy it. First I will see what the leading programmers here will do with it, then buy it and flash it with a cooked ROM from this forum. And maybe this cooked ROM will be rebased on WM6.5.x or a hacked WM7, able of multitasking.
4) When I will buy HD3 (or whatever it will be called) I buy the hardware (1,5 GHz Qualcomm, ROM/RAM etc.) and I want it to be FAST. Like with Win Vista the hardware will be eaten up by WM7-software giving no speed advantage. Like with my Sony Vaio TT92 which is equipped with WinXP and which is much faster than most of the desktop-PCs for MY use of the Vaio (no gaming, prof. medical work) I will rely on the experts here to cook a ROM that´s faster than lightning for the APPS, ´cause I don´t care if the basic software is WM6.5.x or WM7, TF3D, HTCSense or what, I want my preferred apps to run fast and smooth w/o hangup.
Conclusion: trust the people here, THEY will make the best outa the new HARDWARE, not HTC, not Microsoft ..........

gm_fisher said:
Or is MS really just going to bring out a dumb version of Windows Mobile, for the dummys, and to more directly compete with iPhone, and continue the development of the OS version (6.5) they already have for the business users, and the more adventurous?
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I'm afraid that's exactly what they are doing. Everyone - including MS - is green with envy for the zillion$$$ Apple are making with teenagers and "wanna-look-cool" adults who spend their time on social networks or mms-ing pictures. Little brains, fat wallets. No surprise manufacturers and carriers LOVE them and would do ANYTHING to please them.
MS had a decision to make: continue to fight on two fields (business and dummies) and continue losing to RIM on the former and to Apple on the latter? Or instead concentrate on one, playing the cards (like hardware) where the competition has always been behind?
WPS7 is just that.
Do I like it? Hell, no.
Would I have done the same thing had I been in Steve Ballmer's shoes? Probably yes.
Will their strategy succeed? Probably no. Unless Steve Jobs screws up big-time...
gm_fisher said:
We still remember XP/Vista don't we, lets hope MS learn't something!
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Looking at Win7, I think they learnt that crappy-buggy OS's should never ever make their way into the market. However keeping looking at Win7 on other PC's makes me wish I will still have the option for XP when my laptop replacement is due in June.
I don't think MS will be stupid enough to allow WPS7 to be crappy-buggy like Vista, but most likely WPS7 will be as alienating to business users as Win7 is, leaving them in fact with two choices:
a) BlackBerry (for most)
b) Android (for power users)
Actually there is a third one for the (very few) adventurous: cooked WinMo ROMs.

My next tablet after TF101

After looking at Android's fragmentation, the pain that one has to go through for every damn update is really getting to me! Google has really screwed this one up big time...its funny to even see the number of different screen sizes, hardware configurations android is being used. No standardization makes it a nightmare for developers to write applications that are consistent. Its hard to imagine that google has been so short sighted!
Asus is surely a brilliant company to have come out with a great tablet (and their newer tabs are kick ass too at great price points). But its really bothersome if I'm always in some sort of dependence on the manufacturer to release OS updates - this is just plain crazy! If Google's aim of ICS was to converge all devices to use the same OS, then why aren't they supporting manufacturers or insisting on all manufacturers to push out an update?
To start things, Google has really messed up their long term roadmap with fragmentation issues...and I would expect a company of that scale to atleast put in some sort of contractual commitments with all its manufacturing partners to roll out updates to its customers within a given timeline.
Here is what I would expect Google to have implemented yesterday, if they really need to retain popularity towards Android and keep it growing -
1. No more fragmentation moving forward. Standardization of screen resolutions, minimum performance requirements, ram, storage requirements etc.
2. Device manufacturers must commit to issuing software updates within some timeline from when google has an update.
3. Manufacturers dont decide if the update can run on their device or not - it must be google who decides this, and should be decided based on hardware specs
Now with Windows 8 on the horizon, I would definitely wait it out and move over to a Windows 8 based tablet. Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right. It shows clearly from their development tools/platform, their emulators, clean implementation rather than an iterative approach etc.
Last android tablet for sure! And I'm hoping windows phone 7 will mature too, and its windows 8 variant should be a lot more promising. Thats when I would phase out my Galaxy S and head back to MS
What are your thoughts people?
cheers,
San

dreamtheater39 said:
Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, you made my day XD ...btw. throwing the word "vista" into the ring ^^
coming to win8. i just read an article today that the arm version of windows is most likely not able to run desktop programs. asuming that: WOOOOOW, Windows 8

If you prefer a monolithic OS to the liberty you get with Android that's your choice.
Personally, I do not. I do not like being locked into one vendor who gets to decide how I use my device.
I like having a choice between a smartphone, a 7", 8.9", 10.1" or even 11.5" tablet, or even a laptop that I can run the same OS (Android) on.
I love the Transformer. I have one device that is truly a tablet and, with root, also serves the full functionality of a laptop. What can Windows offer me that does this? What can iOS offer me that can replace my Transformer?
And that's besides the fact that with a Windows device I'm stuck with an OS that I am familiar with the shortcomings of, and unable to do anything about. Or with iOS that, again, no one can fix but the manufacturer (if they feel like it).
Yes, fragmentation of the Android platform is a bit of a problem. The Market addresses this, somewhat, by only showing software you can install on your device. Most Android devs are sensitive to their customer's needs and a polite email is frequently responded to positively, and usually with a fix in short order.
Frankly, I consider the fragmented markets (GetJar, Market, Amazon App Store, etc) to be a far larger problem than fragmentation of the OS, and I don't consider that to be anywhere close to a large problem.

Hmmm my thoughts
1. They have set an agreement with there partners. A new timeline that they must update devices within a set life span for a device think it was around a year and a half have a google on it. (p.s year and a half aint bad considering how fast mobile tech is moving)
2. It should not be a problem for devs to write apps for ics and the differences in hardware are accounted for
3. ms well thought out vista ms dos longhorn??? ms dos was not future thinking and very short sighted especially in terms of ram!!!!!! if anyone remembers vista was a plain mess!! and longhorn didnt even meet the public. Not to mention the many other flaws or screw ups (anyone remember xp early days it was hackers heaven)
4. At its roots android is linux google the track record for updates and security between ms and linux then whie you're at it google how many servers in the world run linux compared to ms
5. The biggest flaw of all ms was a single user platform a pc the first pc they now want to make it multi user and move toward cloud computing etc etc linux has been doing this for years so inherantly android can do the same ms on the other hand is having to kick there own ass so hard bills teeth have been replaced with hes toe nails
6. I like win 8 and 7 for one reason gamming and a couple programs i just cant get otherwise but as soon as i can do these things elsewhere or linux based i will.
You do have good points but i just wanted to step in as the other side of the coin.
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings

If you really want to be assured you can run everything on every device I suggest you look at Apple. The iPad will continue to be the dominate tablet for years to come and then you can be assured that everything will be packaged nicely and controlled in the manner decreed in Cupertino.
Open source means a trading a messier support structure for more innovation, and is not for everyone.

blestsol said:
Just leave please and get your ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enough said, whining isn't usefull here.
Seriously what do you want us to say? Good writting nice information, thanks for the info!!
I mean wtf?
Reported the thread.

Klau you do relise where XDA stands for and what the DEVELOPERS word means behind it?
XDA is for developing and helping people when they want to use costum roms or other non officeal related subjects
If you are unsatisfied with a device use the offical forum of ASUS, thats the right place!

Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
blestsol said:
Ooc, you don't agree of disagree... Why you responding? People use words wrong so much... Fan boy? Man you reaching. Foh. You sick of something ignore it and take your own advice. Dip from the thread. Simple ass that for your simple ass.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol

klau1 said:
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't disagree. My post said what I meant. What he was describing is what ios can give him. Please show where my fan boy thoughts are though. In my short sentence.
I'll wait for that though.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium

silversx80 said:
Oh, the irony :
Here's the thing, the OP is an open-ended criticism on things the android community praises about the android platform. Praising those things does not make one a fanboy, nor does calling one a fanboy render an ages-old demotivational poster anything less than a sophomoric response in the hopes that a chuckle will sway the reader over to your point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, face palm has always been my actual sentiment about the responses here, and pictures help prevents a large post from getting ignored.
silversx80 said:
Someone criticizes the platform as a whole, one which others really enjoy (including myself), and makes the declaration that they're moving over to another, which is much better. Their assessment is based only on opinionated observations from their point of view, which is hardly an inconvenience to anyone else. Of course they're going to get a "get the f*ck out" response, and deserve nothing less. It's like when the Christians invaded the Turks and tried to convert the entire group of people.
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
There is nothing wrong with desiring something that is better for your uses, but use that as a premise. Don't start by lambasting the opposition, especially when you know what the system is about and you know the offerings of the competition. Some people may actually enjoy the things you don't.
In my opinion, ALL of the devises and software are AMAZING when you consider what the all do.
Instead, we get a bunch of non-contributing, product-zero, whiny little girls. You know what, that's fine; next time you think of complaining, go make your own. As soon as yours is better, then you can complain about other offerings.
Until then, STFU and GTFO.
P.S. If android will be more successful as a standardized platform, we'll see it move that way. I write that with reservation, as android is currently the #1 mobile platform in the world, so they must be doing something right... much to the chagrin of the OP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, every reasonably intelligent person understands trade-off exist. Simply one comes to mind:
can a "God be powerful enough to create a rock so heavy that even it can't lift it?"
Usability comes at the expense of functionality, everyone should understand that.
But people forget that sometimes, not a big deal, just explain it to them instead of acting like an internet bully. That doesn't help your point across.
silversx80 said:
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive

lol's were had reading this thread.

klau1 said:
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, basically what he did was akin to going over to VW Vortex, complaining about all the reasons why his little 2.5 Golf was not like the current offerings from Toyota, and said that when the new Hondas come out, he's getting one of those.
There is no purpose in his post other than to demean and criticize. There is nothing productive, nor contributory about it. No, I didn't have to read, nor post, but I felt compelled.
If someone want's to leave for a better personal option, that's fine. If they want to make a scene and flip the table on the way out, then they shouldn't expect a positive reception to their announcement.

As much as I hate Apple, I do think that progress requires contrast. What do I mean? We need a solidified company like Apple that keeps pushing the same standard but slightly better (that's like peer-reviewed science). We need a looser society of innovators like Google's associates who play around at the edges of what we expect at the moment (who are like fringe scientists, some contribute great genius ideas, and some who completely **** it up). For me, I like the fringe scientist; I understand the need for peer-review, but I think I'll stick with Android for at least the next tablet too.

A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
Play nice..........
talk nice ........
Or you will be banned.......
And I will close the thread
To those who reported this bad behavior, thank you
Keep it civil, Folks
Thanks ~ oka1 Moderator

Did they demo a Windows 8 ARM device at CES? I am very curious as to how Windows 8 will perform.
This is a very interesting project that could either excel if developers jump onboard, or crash horribly if developers reject the idea of Windows on ARM.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San

dreamtheater39 said:
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a huge problem with this statement, and pretty much the rest of your post. They are not a valid presumptions.
First, the developer and platform support each other. The platform does not live because the developer supports it... I'd argue that it's the other way around, but still a 2-way street. Without the platform, the developer cannot develop.
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Third, screen resolution (and other oddities) may be a contributing factor in some app developers not bringing iOS apps to Android, but the vetting process of the Apple App Store discourages other developers from even trying to release anything onto iOS. Some devs don't even want to program things for iOS based on principle (and visa versa).
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Fifth, one could argue that it's not the big-time devs who got each platform off the ground, but the small-time devs, who released their apps for free. It wasn't the gaming capabilities that sold Android and iOS early on; that's a very narrow perspective.
Sixth, Android isn't being shot in the proverbial foot by different market places, those particular devices may be. The Nook and Kindle Fire come to mind, but keep in mind that those were sold on the premise that they're electronic readers first, that happen to run a modified version of Android.
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
I moved to Windows Mobile phones from Palm devices because I wanted better synching with my computer, use of the .Net framework, and ease of customization ability. Turned out that WM was not intuitive on my early phones.
I moved from WM to webOS. Loved it. It was intuitive, smooth and reliable. Customization wasn't very easy, but I didn't care. Also, it had support of the big app developers and had some pretty good games too. Unfortunately, it didn't have support of the small-time app devs because of the difficulty writing apps for it. Where is it now?
From there, I knew that webOS was going to be short-lived, so I moved to Android. No, it's not as stable as iOS or webOS, but it is still a great OS. Small devs can get a chance in the app market, along with big-time devs who write cross-platform.
Windows 8 may be a great platform, but the big picture is that there is no cult-following for Microsoft as there is for Apple. What they need to do is give potential-customers options. Those options need to range from inexpensive, to top of the line. Different hardware, in other words (a nightmare for devs). If they don't, and since they don't have a die-hard following, I suspect it wont gain as much ground as Android did, or even webOS.
Apple has a good customer base, and knows what that customer wants. It's an easy sell. Windows customers are far too diverse and can't accept a blanket-type device range to cover all the wants and needs like Apple customers can. Android addresses those customers by providing options because it's an open architecture. Fragmentation sucks for the devs, but the user doesn't care because the typical user only has one device. Those users are why the devs exist at all.
To sum up, I think three things:
1. Your assessment of Android's shortcomings are somewhat short-sighted and not applicable to the big picture. The user wants the experience of the phone, not the apps. Apps are just noise now, with hundreds doing the same thing.
2. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears, or ears that cannot do anything about your complaints (i.e. I don't think Android's authors are reading this thread with much merit).
3. Your arguments would be better suited in the iOS, or Windows 8 sub-forums.

I was thinking about the horror of all the different Android devices when looking at them from a Dev's point of view (which I am NOT) so I appreciate your openness and insight.
The main reason why I will stay away from an iOS tablet for a long time is simply that the interface on a tablet needs to be more flexible than simply arranging icons to start apps. In other words, as long as iOS does not support widgets there's no appeal to me to buy an Apple tablet. Very narrow-minded, I know. Having an iPh*one (3GS) is not optimal but I am still waiting for an Android phone that intrigues me and is NOT linked to VZW.
dreamtheater39 said:
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
I do agree that fragmentation exists but only between Android versions such as those running 1.5, 1.6, 2.2, 3.0, 4.0, etcetera but you can deal with this. I doubt they'll standardize hardware. Maybe screen sizes, maybe screen resolutions but manufacturers are there to make money, not play equal to every other manufacturer. If HTC wants to release a better phone with a better resolution to make more money Google isn't going to tell them to do otherwise. The only reason this is different with Apple is because Apple is the only one making hardware for their iOS so there are no companies fighting over each other for profits. They can control the whole platform. Obviously with Android you have multiple hardware manufacturers and they're not all part of the same company, they're looking to make profits over each other and that means devices have varying features. That's just how Android is unless Google makes their own devices and restricts Android to Google devices.
I think I would like the idea of uniformity better too, not as strict as Apple but certain things being the same across all vendors. We're heading that way in a sense since Google is requiring all ICS devices to support the Holo theme. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we get more restrictions from Google but as for forcing manufacturers to make certain hardware? That I truly doubt. Google has made it possible to work with different devices by allowing you to query for different device features such as checking for a keyboard or a trackball or an accelerometer, use resolution independent practices such as DP measurements and relative positioning, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.
different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...

Tubular said:
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, a lot of work is done to make things resolution independent. But this is not always easy when you want to have some really complex games designed which is heavy on 2D UI. Full screen dialog boxes, Floating UI options etc. are all part of many big game titles developed and ends up being incredibly hard to port across multiple resolutions/aspect ratios. Try looking at some of the user reviews on games - people complain about the smallest of things and randomly throw in a 1 star rating. For a development company, ratings are everything. If your app gets low ratings, it goes unnoticed and thereby killing your chances of earning decent revenues for breaking even - let alone profitability! The cost of development goes up due to higher requirements for development & testing (multiple devices and other fragmentation issues).
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several things here - PVR textures, many open gl calls behave differently on certain devices - for instance the filtering doesnt work as expected on the samsung line of devices because they have their own driver tweaks applied, some devices crash out on a minor opengl warning, while the other devices ignore and continue to run etc. The point here is, you cant see it running on 1 "TYPE" of device which represents a family (same res, performance specs) and assume it will run on the rest. You can release and iteratively respond to user feedback - but you risk getting low ratings and then your game gets buried under.
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[/QUOTE]
When you build games, the objective is to provide the best graphics to the end user with excellent gameplay. Now, if i have to support several hardware configurations i either have a fallback mechanism to have lower quality on lower device (more dev effort, more costs, more testing), or reduce overall quality of graphics all across (bad quality game - low ratings, low revenues), blacklist lower specced devices (killing potential market share - cutting total revenues, risking break even). This becomes extremely critical especially because the games and apps are sold for a measly $1 and every sale is important!
silversx80 said:
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all developers need to follow this. But any large sized company will invariably follow this approach - mainly from the point of view of monetization. Right now, the fact is, Android is yet not a platform where the big bucks come from. Its still unfortunately the damn fruit company. And the sheer fact about the difficulty in have a game run on android is a deterrent to release on android first. Its much easier to finish a game for ios, throw it on the marketplace, and quickly see how the game did. If people like it, and you made decent revenues, then you could expand to android - which would take a lot more time, money, effort.
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true, and thats what i mean by the effort it takes on testing and development makes it a costlier bet! Imagine the capital investment - to house all the phones to test on!
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I barely find it hard to earn my paycheck Its my company which has to invest the $$$ to get every game out of the door to hit android markets! And just seeing all the chaos involved in shipping an android title, just makes me wonder why google has made this so complicated! If i have to think from the perspective of having my own startup company making android games - it would give me shivers! Not all companies have the lucky streak of Rovio and those few company that i could handcount.
-San

I ask you your opinion (Android vs iOS)

I currently have two tablet: ASUS Transformer and new iPad. I am writing an article on the Android vs iOS (only the operating system).
I would like to hear users' opinions about why you chose Android, or do you own both? What is good or bad is in Android/iOS. What Apple/Google is doing better than Apple/Google. If your answer is, Apple is crap, do not bother to comment.

Andoid: Open source
iOS: closed source with limited functionality.
Enough said.

People hold strong opinions so watch out because this article will flame like hell. I will say that Apple is crap, but I will explain why I say this. Given the freedom of Android, I'd choose nothing else. Given the advanced level of control over your device, I'd choose nothing else. Given the open source availability of our beloved OS, I'd choose nothing else. Given the diverse choice of apps on the Play Store and the larger amount of free apps, I'd choose nothing else. Aside from that sort of stuff, Apple's BS just plain ticks me off. How these a-holes can actually try to monopolize the technology industry and file all of these lawsuits against their competitors (not to mention the fact that they are being goddamned hipsters and trying to claim that they invented the slide-to-unlock and face unlock features... I'm truly surprised they haven't dug up the inventor of the wheel and tried to sue him). Samsung, Google, and all of their competitors are forking out an arm and a leg to lawyers. Sorry if I seem like I'm pissy, I just don't like the fact that Apple is trying to ruin Android, when it's so beautiful.
This is my Tapatalk 2 signature. Rockin' the app on my Nook Color running ICS 4.0.4, courtesy of Dalingrin, Fattire, and our other beloved XDA weenies (nemith, keyodi, arcee, hacdan, etc.)

Hi!!,
I currently have iPad 1stGen and TF101
I just decide to change to Android becouse of many mods and tweaks i can do (open source), it's very funny for me, and with patience and read, you can play withot kill your data.
I have to say that iOS (Without jailbreak) is boring for me. But iOS have a year of advantage versus android, in terms of quality and performance hardware-software, and they sell more devices, and more, and more, so they have more customers, more potential buyers and much more money to spend.
Both are similar, a store... a developer community... the fact is that in a future, I think one cannot survive without the other. And android is growing too!.
rjarl

Goatshocker said:
Andoid: Open source
iOS: closed source with limited functionality.
Enough said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if that's a benefit to the end user.
Some would argue that android is buggy and has low quality apps because it's so "open", while apples tight reign over the iOS ecosystem ensures a reliable, consistent and high-quality experience for the user.
Honestly, the "average person" doesn't give a damn about open or closed source. They just want something that works with minimal fuss, and that's why Apple can sell more iPads in a week than all Android manufacturers can in a quarter.
I love android because it can do everything I need it to do. My wife loves iOS because it allows her to do everything she wants it to do. The difference is that I'm always maintaining my Android devices, that is, I'm always monitoring the battery or checking for excess wake locks or apps that don't play nice, which she doesn't have to worry about those things at all.

Both are around to suits difference preference in term of functionality, design and fashioned for end users like us..
Some really like to customised, root, flashing and all those freedom you would get in Android world but some doesn't bother and use what the gadget has to offer officially and some just follow others or the latest technology without knowing what best..
I have a friend who just follow and get what others have. Everybody in the office bought iPad and so does she but all she knows and do is playing the build-in facebook mini games.. Jailbreaking an iPad/iPhone wouldn't be as good as rooting an Android devices ..
I choose Android both phone and tablet for the easy customise(root, CWM and custom roms) and the ability to connect to PC as removable drive without needing another program to run..
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium HD app

I love my android tablet. The flexibility is key for me. Maybe the average user doesn't care about open source, but the average user could care about things like, widgets, different keyboards, customization of the homescreens. For me I like, and pick my android products based on the development community around it. I had a G-tablet first, now an asus slider. And I own an HTC incredible, running ICS, something it was never thought it would be able to do, and its all because there is a great community around it.

farsight73 said:
.... the ability to connect to PC as removable drive without needing another program to run..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to that, one of his greats features!!!! just like a removable disk

Need to ask question in other venues. Asking here is like asking if you should buy a chevy truck on a ford truck forum.

I use both. The IOS platform is largely an application launcher. As such it has some limitations on it's functionality. This is by design to make it easy for new users to learn and use, and most of all remember. The ISO interface is very clean and simple and was built by some amazing designers. Given the numbers of IOS users it is obvious this strategy of clean design and simplicity has worked.
Android looks very much like what I see in a lot of application designed by developers. It has a lot of developer centric features such as extensive settings and customizations. The UI has some behaviors that must be learned and remembered to operate effectively. One example is press and hold to get to additional functionality.
Because it was developed by developer instead of UI designers, Android is more feature rich. It makes extensive use of multi-tasking and multi-threading. Also, Intents makes functionality sharing and extensions to the UI such as different keyboards very easy. But, this also increases the complexity
At the end of the day neither system is right or wrong. They are just right for different sets of users.
- IOS is easy to learn and remember. Everything works by apps and you can press one button to get back to familiarity of home. This restricts the options you have in apps which is perfect for a more casual user.
- Android allows for complex UIs which can let users interact with apps in complex manners. This can result in a very powerful app, or a complex mess. But, this is the type of apps and Android is the type of OS that power users want.
Jerry

The question Android vs iOS is same Linux vs Windows...
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

I've owned both iOS and Android devices. I'm currently using an iPad2 64GB 3G. Android has the potential to be a great tablet OS, but as it stands currently it's just too much of a mess IMHO. In order of importance (too me) I feel that display, followed by OS stability, functionality, developer support, and customization are the deciding factors in choosing a device. The custom ROMS within the Android camp are nice (I primarily used the Revolver ones), however all the goodness that ICS was suppose to bring about fizzled. Perhaps the communities expectations were high. The TF201 (which i tried and returned) was rushed to market for bragging rights (Quad Core and Ice Cream), while overlooking so many design flaws (MicroSD Slot, WiFi performance, GPS, colour saturation, and most importantly OS Stability). In addition ASUS position on locking the unit down means that those wishing to try a Developers ROM are forced to void their warranty. So what do I miss now in iOS? Well widgets are the biggest thing. Those and live wallpapers tho I'd bet chew into one's battery.
One thing that nagged at me was the disparity of data plans. I use an older Palm Pixi Plus (cell phone). On that I pay $10 for 100MB. When I was living with the TF101 I could tether it to the Palm (but it was slow), so I looked into the portable hotspot solutions. The problem I saw was the huge price differences (data regardless of the device accessing it should be priced the same IMO) 5GB on a Flex Plan costs $70, whereas 5GB on the iPad costs $35.
Prior to the iPad I've never owned a single Apple device and a despised iTunes for all it's bloatware and autostart services, I've ran Windows (since 3.11 ) and Ubuntu (since Hardy) on my systems.
There are alot of biases between these 2 camps, frankly I just want a device that works as advertised, doesn't crash and force me to reboot or cold start. The first time any of us pick up a device to complete a task while wondering if the device will work as we hope, is the time we should be asking ourselves is that device honestly meeting our needs

It should be noted that while we have the option of customizing Android to our hearts content, customizing can lead to a drop in stability and poor battery life. Custom ROMS can often break basic functions of the OS and make apps incompatible or just plain unstable.
What Apple users miss from android, they gain in device stability, app compatibility, amazing battery life, consistent app experience and a simple "pickup and go" experience. This is what most people are looking for. Even the average android user won't take advantage of widgets, custom keyboards, custom ROMS and kernels , etc. That stuff is often reserved for the power users who like to tweak and control everything on their device... And power users make up a small percent of the total user base.

worldindo1 said:
People hold strong opinions so watch out because this article will flame like hell. I will say that Apple is crap, but I will explain why I say this. Given the freedom of Android, I'd choose nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kind of freedom are you talking about? I can't even root this thing, so it might as well be IPad in my hands right now..
I haven't used any apple device and probably won't. Because of the price. That's what makes difference between Apple and Android devices before I even have got any

EP2008 said:
It should be noted that while we have the option of customizing Android to our hearts content, customizing can lead to a drop in stability and poor battery life. Custom ROMS can often break basic functions of the OS and make apps incompatible or just plain unstable.
What Apple users miss from android, they gain in device stability, app compatibility, amazing battery life, consistent app experience and a simple "pickup and go" experience. This is what most people are looking for. Even the average android user won't take advantage of widgets, custom keyboards, custom ROMS and kernels , etc. That stuff is often reserved for the power users who like to tweak and control everything on their device... And power users make up a small percent of the total user base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed the vast majority of users have no interest is hacking their device. They want it to simply work!
Further someone mentioned that price is a factor. Yes however now that we've seen a price drop on the iPad2 it's a moot point

hairpower said:
What kind of freedom are you talking about? I can't even root this thing, so it might as well be IPad in my hands right now..
I haven't used any apple device and probably won't. Because of the price. That's what makes difference between Apple and Android devices before I even have got any
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer your question simply. Without jailbreaking an ios device you cannot:
1ownload roms or any emulators, this includes all SNES,n64,psx etc etc
2:You cannot run freeware music software like grooveshark ( my favorite), it was banned from appstore, and now only resides in cydia (jailbreak + montly fee is required)
3:You cannot download torrents. Jailbreak is required, even then it is a not a good experience.
4: you cannot transfer files directly to folders, an SHSH connection is required, which requires jailbreak.
All these things you can do without rooting, so you are not holding an ipad device my friend, you would have notice it.
The best thing about android is that developers can make their own apps and spread them for free to the community, that experience can be obtained with iOS and cydia, but It can cause some real problems in your phone, and decrease its battery time.
When you use cydia apps, sometimes you will notice very unstable behavior from your idevice, like winterboard or dreamboarder, which caused my phone to brick itself.
in more simple words, To get an android experience on an apple device, you will make the iOS more unstable than applefanboys claim android to be.

EP2008 said:
Not sure if that's a benefit to the end user.
Some would argue that android is buggy and has low quality apps because it's so "open", while apples tight reign over the iOS ecosystem ensures a reliable, consistent and high-quality experience for the user.
Honestly, the "average person" doesn't give a damn about open or closed source. They just want something that works with minimal fuss, and that's why Apple can sell more iPads in a week than all Android manufacturers can in a quarter.
I love android because it can do everything I need it to do. My wife loves iOS because it allows her to do everything she wants it to do. The difference is that I'm always maintaining my Android devices, that is, I'm always monitoring the battery or checking for excess wake locks or apps that don't play nice, which she doesn't have to worry about those things at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree, ios is for the simpler person, who do not care about reaching the full potential of their device, they just want it to work.
Sent from my HTC_A510c using xda premium

worldindo1 said:
People hold strong opinions so watch out because this article will flame like hell. I will say that Apple is crap, but I will explain why I say this. Given the freedom of Android, I'd choose nothing else. Given the advanced level of control over your device, I'd choose nothing else. Given the open source availability of our beloved OS, I'd choose nothing else. Given the diverse choice of apps on the Play Store and the larger amount of free apps, I'd choose nothing else. Aside from that sort of stuff, Apple's BS just plain ticks me off. How these a-holes can actually try to monopolize the technology industry and file all of these lawsuits against their competitors (not to mention the fact that they are being goddamned hipsters and trying to claim that they invented the slide-to-unlock and face unlock features... I'm truly surprised they haven't dug up the inventor of the wheel and tried to sue him). Samsung, Google, and all of their competitors are forking out an arm and a leg to lawyers. Sorry if I seem like I'm pissy, I just don't like the fact that Apple is trying to ruin Android, when it's so beautiful.
This is my Tapatalk 2 signature. Rockin' the app on my Nook Color running ICS 4.0.4, courtesy of Dalingrin, Fattire, and our other beloved XDA weenies (nemith, keyodi, arcee, hacdan, etc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
totally agree on all points!!!
---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------
from what i gather, iOS is simple whereas android is sophisticated!!!

A year ago I bought an iPad to replace my laptop. I did this because I used my android phone more then my laptop to place things on internet. For example on auction sites.
It wasn't what I expected. iOS is too secure. Something simple like searching a foto in your filesystem and upload it isn't possible. Even when iOS is jailbroken!
Now I have an android tablet, which can replace my laptop completely.
An iPad is nice for internet or reading your mail. Or for an electronics noob.

I can understand if people like iOS more for its stability, but for the generation that's under 35, how can anyone be too stupid to use Android? It's honestly not more complicated (I got my first tablet, TF101, last year in the summer, then my first smartphone about a month ago, SGi777) and you can do so much more. I've used my girlfriend's iPhone a lot (waiting at the bus stop, hanging around her place without anything to do.. etc.) and it's really hard to believe that anyone would want an iOS product for its "simplicity" because I'd say that it took me maybe two hours to understand how to manipulate Android as much as you can manipulate iOS (and of course, I learn more ways to manipulate Android as time goes on because it has so many possibilities that open up as you root and gain more control..).
Now, I'm a physics major, and I work with some computer programming languages, but none of which would really help for my learning experience with Android. I play games, but not much since early high school, so that wasn't it either. I use my computer, but not really for anything that requires super knowledge about computers. I've used iOS on a computer before, I've used Windows on a computer before, and I've used Ubuntu (really awesome, except it doesn't play certain Windows games which made me not completely switch over).
I guess the real difference between the two is the perception held by the masses. Yeah, Android is also cheaper (kind of, I mean, the good phones cost as much as iPhones but go on sale sometimes) so that kind of fuels the perception in lots of places. I know that in China, many of the wealthier folks like to buy things that are superfluously expensive for the reason that they are more expensive (my postdoc mentor being an example), and that's probably one thing that keeps this "iOS is the elite, Android is the poor man's choice" kind of thing going.
Sorry for the rant.
tl;dr: Android is as simple as iOS if you want to do only what iOS can do, but Android gives the user the potential to go farther. The main difference is the perception in the eyes of the masses, and that perception is tied to marketing and prices.

maybe this could help HTC revive themselves

so we all know HTC is in trouble. The cellphone market is constantly moving forward and looking to the future for their next big thing. I, however, suggest that htc should take a page out of their old book and come out with a next-gen hd2. When I think about freedom in a handset, I think about this phone first and THEN android's early days. We live in a time where mainstream phone manufacturers give us a product and thats that whether we like it or not. my last 4 android phones weren't able to be rooted and so I gave up altogether. I'm currently an iphone user. Not because I think it's better but because I just gave up. I am not happy with todays offerings. I feel like phones should be more advanced now. I mean yeah there are very nice phones today with tiny bezels and crazy specs but I'm speaking more from a OS perspective. Yes pixels are nice, yes samsung has amazing phones but at the end of the day they're only still running android. Android has evolved but, in my eyes, just barely. It's still the same at its core. Back on topic, I think it would be in everybody's best interest if htc were to look back to this phone for the future. This time next year will mark the 10th anniversary of the HD2 and they're in a very troubled state right now so why not? HD3, the all new HTC HD, whatever they may call it is irrelevant as long as they just do it. The smartphone market is stagnant right now, there's countless evidence to support this claim. Manufacturers should start focusing more on operating systems than bezels. It is clearly inevitable that there will eventually be new contestants in the duopoly we have right now.
I'm not sure how to approach this but let's just put it like this. If i had it my way; it's November 2019 and HTC releases the hd3, theres a whole back to the future campaign. they trademark the phrase "the future is in your hands." it's on billboards and ads with the phone sitting comfortably in a pair of palms. there's black hands, white hands, brown hands, robot hands to show that this is the phone for everybody. it runs android by default but it is meant to run other operating systems. HTC has invested money into smaller os manufacturers and home-based devs to develop/port their existing OS. they run competitions and such for people to show off their OS offerings. Not for them to purchase and license but to show that the whole movement is about the people and their freedom phone. the device is a tinkerers dream. The app stores are limited but that isn't the point. We're approaching a time where AI is slowly eliminating the need for 6 billion apps. XDA is the go-to spot again. We need a more capable mobile OS and why shouldn't HTC be one of the first to push that with their hardware. I know microsoft will be putting out the surface phone soon and I'd be willing to bet it will run full windows 10. Why not have a legitimate early competitor to push the agenda? If I want to run ubuntu desktop or kali linux on my phone fluidly why can't I? This may very well be a niche product but it will be huge for developers and will most definitely be a big conversation. That alone would gain some traction. hardware revisions thereafter could include multiple usb-c connectors, maybe an x86 architecture, maybe modularity, maybe this maybe that. I just dream of a pocketable device that would truly feel free of restraints and I believe HTC is the one for the job. Manufacturers are always giving us what THEY think we need instead of actually leaving it up to us. Ask any savvy person what the most legendary smartphone was and they'll say the HD2, ask them why and I guarantee every answer is the same. This is something I am passionate about and I haven't slept yet and I know the format is all messed up but I just wanted to put the idea in peoples heads.

I second this motion. The HTC HD2 Leo I own is a beast. I will admit that it was frustrating at first. I must have soft bricked it half a dozen times messing with settings and software I had no business touching as I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Then I found some good tutorials and finally, the promised land. XDA DEVELOPERS FORUM.
I found that the HD2 was an incredibly versatile and robust piece of tech. I did soft brick it again a time or two, but always I was able to rejuvenate it. The downfall, I believe was Microsoft ending the 6.5 os right after release. That coupled with the power house of android and the backing and resources it had soon overshadowed the HD2. But quite a few kept a place in there heart for it. The capability of the device and the developers to modify and utilize the platform to do extraordinary things has, in my opinion, never been matched. HTC needed a flagship. They were in the pack, but had a desire and opportunity to pull to the forefront. With the HD2 they did surge ahead. They didn't fail us, the market and consumer failed them. Too many got overly frustrated as they failed to understand the accessibility and basic root to pathway to app to accessories. The various models also caused consumers, who were hearing of this wonder of Google and Android, some with the apple iPhone in hand and its "friendly yet restrictive" os, and they rage quit on the HTC.
After reading the above post, I have thought long and hard on what was, what is, and what could be for HD devices. I have several interesting observations.
1. The versatility of the HD2 opened it up to power-users, techs, devs and wide eyed dreamy technophiles like myself. The ability of the HD2 to use Java, WinMo, PPC software, Android and linux gave so many a highly adaptable device for personal preference, personalization and experimentation.
2. The HD2 could act as a PDA, Phone, PC, Diagnostic tool, Microsoft Office companion and controller... The list goes on. Yes you can do all those things with an android or apple device now, but the ability to adjust the hardware settings, application features, information export and format has been greatly handicapped by a gap between developer abilities an end users abilities. Rooting helps with this, but rooting itself is a tricky and iffy prospect. I have noticed that certain areas of focus and purpose for applications have software that does not cover everything desired, or is entirely too broad and basic to be fully accurate. I have found myself and others needing 2 or three applications to accomplish with accuracy what could be done with one openly versatile and layered 'package'.
3. The HTC HD2 is still capable of competing with most of the low to mid level devices on the market today. I can hear some of you rolling your eyes, but I stick by that statement. Even with some outdated components and slower buss and cache speeds, it can hold its own. I attribute that to the versatility.
4. The vision of the HTC HD3 MODULAR COMPONENT ENGINE. Yup. I may be insane after all. Yet my madness has reason, I am just not linguistically skilled enough in Techaneeze to put it to words. Basically, the device by itself is a fully functioning phone with the latest capabilities and trends. The average user will be able to use it straight out the box, though with multiple new options such as dual OS preinstalled, dual SD card slots, Mega More than anyone needs camera resolutions, speakers that actually work loud and clear, maybe predocked gizmos, chochkies and dodads like Bluetooth earpiece(beats me on the design so far), NFC tags or keyring fobs(whatever those are called), a hidden micro sim/sd card compartment, an actual headphone jack, plasma lighter/taser, multi use survival card, toothpick, tweezers, det-cord crimper. OK OK i am being silly, but its late and I am hungry.
The added wow factor is that the HD3 is a driver/interface for a modular expansion platform that can be customized for various trades. IT tools like frequency counter, component tester, etc.; scientific lab tools and sensors; in the field career specific tools for geologist, meteorologist, anthropologists, etc.
So far, i just have envisioned a framework buss with plug in ports for specific electronics and sensors, etc.
I will try to expand on this idea, but I am now at the point that I believe I need to poll the public. I will attempt to create an effective poll(s) at a later time when I have all cylinders firing.
Good night, and good luck!

I just stumbled on to this forum browsing xda in the new year..and as each year passes i feel sad that these HD2 forums get more and more silent ( I bot the HD2 in 2009, the year of its launch) ...strange this phone got so many people to love their device like no other, I guess people remember the joy they felt when they used it and the fact that it was probably the most modded phone on the planet....fact that it ran android marshmallow not too far back is testament to the loyalty of developers and users of this phone who never gave up on it, kept it alive and relevant .... I guess we all miss the extreme flexibility of our beloved device today, of course also miss the huge flutter of activity on the xda forums for this phone, the forums were always buzzing with something new ( ROM, app ) the phone could run or some feature that was finally made to work...so so great to see the above 2 posts in 2018, good to see activity and that people still remember this great device and are still hoping it will be reborn in some form in the future, cheers to that!!!!

Same sentiments here. I bought the hd2 on release in 2009 and it was a lovely device. I remember installing the latest Android ROMs and kernels on it, was so fun. We're at a point if perfection though, most modern devices run at well you hardly need to tinker with them anymore. My Galaxy note 9 and Huawei mate 20 pro are proof to that, these 2 phones are Android in it's perfection but the hd2 will always have a place in our hearts!

I am still amazed to see what the HD2 achieved.. I also bought it in 2009.. had loads of fun flashing it (or may i say them, i ended up having 4 of them at the same time ) whith android and windows.. I still have 2 or 3 of them laying around somewhere.. was an incredible device that gave loads of fun