Database Users

What mobile OS is going to really thrive?

I'm a freshman at Purdue University studying computer science, and my interest pretty much lays in mobile devices and programming. Just a background about myself.
I've been looking at mobile platforms. I've had some experience with using Windows Mobile and the iPhone OS, but haven't had any experience with Android. My question for all of you is, what OS do you think I, or more generally, current college students should focus on?
Obviously there's the big factor of personal preferences, but looking forward, what is going to be a big market?
The iPhone OS already has a big application market, and I do think it will only grow as the iPhone market share grows, but I fear the iPhone's market will peak before I get out of college in about 3 more years.
Android seems to be the budding OS, since its market share is quite low due to only having one device out, and for a small(er) US carrier. But I feel Android, since backed by Google, will thrive for awhile.
Blackberry OS seems really nice, but for now I think the developer pool and demand for blackberry applications is quite low. But, this means that is could peak about then time I'm out of college.
Finally, Windows Mobile seems to be, and no offense to anyone here, but the laughing stock of mobile OS'. The introduction of Windows Mobile 6.5 will help, and Windows Mobile 7 could spark the WinMo community and userbase.
What are your thoughts?

iPhone will continue to be successful but its closed environment will hinder its full potential. It is likely to reach a critical mass soon that it won't be able to reach beyond as long as it clings to proprietary hardware.
Android is likely to continue to be a niche market, much like Google Docs. Successful only if you define the term in a very particular way, but not in a "mass market" way.
Blackberry, from an applications standpoint, has already stalled and is likely to continue to do so unless the Storm can break through, which seems unlikely at this point. After the initial mania over it, it's become kind of a yawn.
You've not included Symbian, but since I don't know much about it I won't comment on it here.
Windows Mobile is not likely to increase its market share significantly, but it's also unlikely to lose much more market share. Integration with the Windows desktop/server world is only likely to become tighter, and that will remain attractive to business users.
I doubt you will go far wrong with strong skills in both iPhone and WinMo. Others are risky.
But really, you mentioned you want to program for mobile devices. With the OS's you mention you are unnecessarily limiting yourself. Windows CE is a quite powerful mobile platform that many of the largest manufacturers are basing their mobile strategies on - just not telephones or other handheld devices. There are many other mobile technologies that you should investigate and will probably give you far greater opportunities than a phone OS.

Like he said, I would definately not focus on a phone OS but rather on a core OS.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, ajbopp, and I get where you're coming from. But in terms of market share for phones, I feel that the trend is going quickly towards average-user type smartphones like the iPhone. My feeling is that whatever OS can tailor towards the average user is going to be the one that comes out with the biggest market share, but that much is obviously. WinMo and Blackberry at the moment are geared towards businesses and if they stay that way they won't own the market. I'm really looking into what OS will perform well in the mass market.

Gotta disagree with you there. Whatever OS can tailor to business needs is where the market share is at. And I don't mean the device that can integrate with Exchange Server the easiest and most reliably.
The OS that will run the navigation, climate control, GPS, etc. systems in every automobile produced by Toyota, or every transport truck engineered by Navistar, or every driver from UPS...that market will dwarf the personal communication device market. The opportunity for application development is more extensive, and the value of those applications will be immeasurably higher. They already are.

let him go with the FailPhone already...

ajbopp said:
Gotta disagree with you there. Whatever OS can tailor to business needs is where the market share is at. And I don't mean the device that can integrate with Exchange Server the easiest and most reliably.
The OS that will run the navigation, climate control, GPS, etc. systems in every automobile produced by Toyota, or every transport truck engineered by Navistar, or every driver from UPS...that market will dwarf the personal communication device market. The opportunity for application development is more extensive, and the value of those applications will be immeasurably higher. They already are.
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Well right now the iPhone has a sizable market share and is tailored to the average user, no?
And I think the OS that is capable of running the things you mentioned sounds like Android, since it's not limited by hardware or software limitations.

met3ora said:
Well right now the iPhone has a sizable market share and is tailored to the average user, no?
And I think the OS that is capable of running the things you mentioned sounds like Android, since it's not limited by hardware or software limitations.
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But it's also not standard, or well-used. You're banking on Android becoming something as commonplace as Java did so quickly in the 90s. I think that's pretty much a long shot.
Plus, you have to consider code re-use and platform diversity. Today, Windows, Windows Mobile, and WindowsCE is still the target to beat when it comes to marketing plans, project expenses, customer familiarity, legacy product integration, and a host of other considerations.
Java offered platform independence at a time when the WWW was just beginning to burgeon. Had it been developed even 5 years earlier, it probably would not have been successful.
There is no comparable event on the horizon that is likely to make Android the dominant mobile OS. There's just not enough incentive to jump to it.

As someone that sells cell phones for a living (at least while in college), I will give my perspective on what I see and hear from customers, as well, my personal feelings as a multiplatform smart phone user...
Background: I offer multiple HTC devices... the Diamond, TyTN II, Touch Dual, Touch, and S621. I offer 3, soon to be 4, Blackberries, the 8310 Curve(2mp camera, GPS, EDGE), the Pearl 8110 (Same as Curver), and the 8820 (No camera, GPS, EDGE, and WiFi), and shortly the new Curve 8900 (3.2mp camera, GPS, WiFi, and EDGE).
Customer: The majority of my customers go with the Blackberry Curve/Pearl(More Curves than Pearls). They like them for the ease of use, in terms of easy app downloading and use, easy e-mail, easy internet, easy customization with a new theme. They are mostly concerned with rock solid stability, battery life, and easy to use. Business ability plays a very small role in the choice, actually, of a BB.
Helping with business related aspects has more to do with selling a customer on a smartphone than any one brand. Also, as I am on a small tangant, BB has done a lot as of late to make their phones less business centric and more mainstream, and have been very successful with this.
As for customers that go with WinMo based devices they don't mind a slightly more complicated OS. They are a bit more tech savy. They don't really care so much about the phone's camera, as they already have a 12mp digital camera for that. The are looking more at cutting edge, from the touchscreen, to the ability to do anything with the phone. They do get frustrated with how slow out of the box the HTC can be, but they don't mind, because they are likely flashing a ROM anyways, or they don't care because it gives them more abilities out of the box than a BB will ever be able to do with every app loaded onto it.
So what does this all mean in terms of longevity? Well, a couple things...
1. WinMo has a much brighter future than BB. In 3 years, WinMo devices are going to be faster and more capable out of the box. BB's will gain in speed, but they will still be limited to essentially an 'os' inside an OS. Palm ran into the problem BB is fastly approaching, they can't improve on what they have anymore since their ceiling is already reached. That is a huge benefit WinMo has over BB, and the others, except for maybe Android, it's ceiling is much higher in terms of absoluter ability.
2. It means that whoever developes a UI for WinMo, whether it be microsoft, HTC, or someone else, that is as friendly as the BB OS will make a killing!
If I was doing a degree in computing, with my focus geared toward mobile platforms I would focus on WinMo/ Windows CE... I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
As for my personal preference as someone that owns both a TyTN II and a BB 8110 Pearl, I prefer WinMo. I like it because I am not affraid of technology, can customize it ten fold more than the BB, have a more complete web experience, and so forth. Basically, I prefer capability over all other aspects. And like I said already, while WinMo may lack in ease of use and out of box speed right now, it will catch up and prove to be superior.
NOTE: If, and this is a huge IF given Apple's track record, the iPhone OS becomes available for other platforms, it will explode and take over a huge share of the market, I don't think 50%, but it will be one of the top 2 smartphone OS.

pjcforpres, so you're saying that Windows Mobile will start becoming the more prominent OS in the long run?
The release of Windows Mobile 6.5 (I haven't tried it, I've since moved on to a Nokia N95 from my Tilt) looks like it's finally giving a facelift to the standard ugly interface we're all used to.
My concern with WinMo is the lack of an built-in application store. Admittedly I haven't kept up as much as I should on that, but I believe MS has one in the works to be shipped with 6.5? If so and if this takes off, I'd probably look to move into that field.
Has anyone had experience programming in XCode (iPhone/Mac OSX) and can tell how difficult it is compared to other languages such as Java?

pjcforpres said:
As someone that sells cell phones for a living (at least while in college), I will give my perspective on what I see and hear from customers, as well, my personal feelings as a multiplatform smart phone user...
Background: I offer multiple HTC devices... the Diamond, TyTN II, Touch Dual, Touch, and S621. I offer 3, soon to be 4, Blackberries, the 8310 Curve(2mp camera, GPS, EDGE), the Pearl 8110 (Same as Curver), and the 8820 (No camera, GPS, EDGE, and WiFi), and shortly the new Curve 8900 (3.2mp camera, GPS, WiFi, and EDGE).
Customer: The majority of my customers go with the Blackberry Curve/Pearl(More Curves than Pearls). They like them for the ease of use, in terms of easy app downloading and use, easy e-mail, easy internet, easy customization with a new theme. They are mostly concerned with rock solid stability, battery life, and easy to use. Business ability plays a very small role in the choice, actually, of a BB.
Helping with business related aspects has more to do with selling a customer on a smartphone than any one brand. Also, as I am on a small tangant, BB has done a lot as of late to make their phones less business centric and more mainstream, and have been very successful with this.
As for customers that go with WinMo based devices they don't mind a slightly more complicated OS. They are a bit more tech savy. They don't really care so much about the phone's camera, as they already have a 12mp digital camera for that. The are looking more at cutting edge, from the touchscreen, to the ability to do anything with the phone. They do get frustrated with how slow out of the box the HTC can be, but they don't mind, because they are likely flashing a ROM anyways, or they don't care because it gives them more abilities out of the box than a BB will ever be able to do with every app loaded onto it.
So what does this all mean in terms of longevity? Well, a couple things...
1. WinMo has a much brighter future than BB. In 3 years, WinMo devices are going to be faster and more capable out of the box. BB's will gain in speed, but they will still be limited to essentially an 'os' inside an OS. Palm ran into the problem BB is fastly approaching, they can't improve on what they have anymore since their ceiling is already reached. That is a huge benefit WinMo has over BB, and the others, except for maybe Android, it's ceiling is much higher in terms of absoluter ability.
2. It means that whoever developes a UI for WinMo, whether it be microsoft, HTC, or someone else, that is as friendly as the BB OS will make a killing!
If I was doing a degree in computing, with my focus geared toward mobile platforms I would focus on WinMo/ Windows CE... I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
As for my personal preference as someone that owns both a TyTN II and a BB 8110 Pearl, I prefer WinMo. I like it because I am not affraid of technology, can customize it ten fold more than the BB, have a more complete web experience, and so forth. Basically, I prefer capability over all other aspects. And like I said already, while WinMo may lack in ease of use and out of box speed right now, it will catch up and prove to be superior.
NOTE: If, and this is a huge IF given Apple's track record, the iPhone OS becomes available for other platforms, it will explode and take over a huge share of the market, I don't think 50%, but it will be one of the top 2 smartphone OS.
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Typing on my blackstone right now so will make it short. .
I definately do -not- think the WinMo OS will thrive, nor completely go out of the picture. If they manage to increase their user experience and out of the box situation it might, but I don't see this happening anywhere untill Windows 7.
Looking at your statement about WinMo users I have to completely disagree with you. The biggest share of people that have a WinMo device do nothing with customization at all, nor are they tech-savvy people. The thing that influences phone sales the most is still the outside (Features, looks, branding) before software, looking at the sale figures of let's say the Omnia vs the iPhone in Germany says it aswell. The majority of people that bought a iPhone (average-users which present the highest share) didn't go to the Apple store because they read about the fluid OS it's using, but cause it's from Apple and they had been using an iPod for so long. The biggest reason the iPhone had such a succes was cause of Apple's image in customer-friendly electronics and as a status symbol. (Say all you want, marketing-technical this is the case.)
Most likely if we actually look at Apple's record, theres nearly no chance the iPhone OS will go multi-platform. They've always been extremely tidy-up on enforcing patents and even try to go against x86 hardware Mac OS users.
Fingers getting tired now so that's all for now

pjcforpres said:
I would also make sure my JAVA was up-to-date, as I don't see dumbphones going away anytime soon.
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Lol..
Edit: What about Palm's WEB OS???

windows will be thrive i think

This is an interesting discussion. I'm a great fun of the sloppy open OS windows offers for the same reason I dwell on these forums. You asked about an appstore, which wm6.5 has (not functional yet because of the betaness). But I really don't think that's something to base future predictions on, because everyone is catching up to that right now, I do believe nokia has an appstore as well.
As for the thriving osses, I'm quite certain that the general smartfone market share is and will be increasing. People seem to pay EUR 600 to get the newest "dumb" phones, for the same money they can have a smartphone that looks good as well. I do see apple's one provider provider as limiting for Iphone OS as a lot of people are satisfied with the deals providers proir their newest phone deal and getting a simunlocked one is quite a hassle. I have had some big discussions over people who are buying what os, and they seem to believe that the general population thinks of an iphone when they think of a multifunctional phone. That being said I'm looking very much forward to windows 7 as I think it will deal with a lot of the currents uglyness and sloppyness of the phones. It will however mean that the newer WM will be "more" closed than before, but I'll guess we will manage , 12

Right now 3 OS'es are leading the pack: WM, Apples and Symbians.
Symbians will probably continue to prosper since they are still by far the easiest to familiarize devices you can ever have. But I'm sure, until symbian figures out a way to be as pretty as an iPhone or as flexible as WM.. they will slowly come out of the picture like Palm and BBs.
As long as Steve Jobs stays alive, apple will get bigger. They may not call it iPhones anymore but it's gonna be something hip and cool that would certainly appeal to the younger/new generation market.
WM will never die. As long as you have Windows PC's, you cannot kill WM. And right now, WM6.5 is heading the right track.. it maintained the flexibility and power of WM and added an iPhone feel to it. I have no doubt that WM7 will definitely make everything better. Much like what they did from XP to Vista.
Android? Hmm.. until they show more devices that can use it, yeah maybe. But I'd stick to WM and iPhones if you wanna develop mobile apps.

antrak:
I understand what you are saying about marketing and all of that. The success of the iPhone is largely due to marketing and familiarity. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, brands and locks down their technology like Apple does. And the branding they gave the iPhone was ease of use, speed, and customization out of the box.
WinMo devices don't have that as easily out of the box. Overall, you can do more with a WinMo device than an iPhone, but it takes more to get the WinMo device to do it.
And it has been my experience, with WinMo and BB as my only 2 smart phone platforms, that the more tech savvy people go with the WinMo device, and those looking for a simpler more straight forward out of the box experience go with the BB.
At the OP:
Yes, I am saying that in the long run, WinMo will be the overall leader. Just as you see Windows based PCs as the dominant computer in the market, you will see WinMo devices as the dominant smart phone in the market. The only drawbacks WinMo has can be fixed rather easily... The lack of speed is something this community has already addressed and fixed. My TyTN II flies! The touch friendliness is being address as we speak, with Touchflo from HTC and TouchWiz from Samsung and WinMo 6.5/7.0 from Microsoft. I believe that Microsoft coming up with the solution is more likely, and is more important than for HTC or Samsung or some other company to come up with their own UI solution. Also, fingers crossed, better graphics drivers would go a long way in helping out WinMo devices, especially HTC devices.
Also, note that WinMo syncs up much better with all those home PC's than any other platform. People looking to get a smart phone are buying them with the idea that they can use the phone in place of their computer for many regular day tasks. I use my TyTN II to manage the small business I am starting up, my work emails, my schedule, school work, and so much more.
I also have a BB Pearl, and as much as I loved it's simplicity, it wasn't powerful enough or integrated enough with my home PC to cut it. BB is great at making a rock solid idiot proof smart phone that allows you to communicate with ease, and they are doing more for multimedia. But BB is approaching it's limitations as it is an 'os' inside and OS.
WebOS looks amazing, and I am sure it will run amazing as well. Palm does good work, for the most part, but they are similar to BB. The new WebOS is a step above, and will have a higher ceiling than BBs current ceiling for future ability. But it is still going to fall short of WinMo, Android, etc. in long term totality because it is too isolated, just like BB.
The advantages WinMo, and the iPhone as well, have over everyone else is that they have full computer based OS backing them up. WinMo has Windows PCs, the iPhone has Macs. As Apple develops the iPhone OS more and more, it will sync better and better with Macs, and do more and more.
As Android handsets become more plentiful, the development will pick up pace, and it will gain a following, especially with Google backing them. And their is the potential they will sync up multiplatform better than anyone else just because they are open source.
WinMo will gain in out of the box speed and UI friendliness. It will probably be a year for WinMo 7.0 to come out and catch up in speed and UI. But WinMo is already ahead of the game when it comes to everything else. Just look at the market and what is available for WinMo devices compared to the other OS.
WinMo will always sync better with Windows PCs than any other OS. As Apple works on it, the iPhone will sync better with Macs than any other OS. And as time goes on, technology advances, and so forth, the smart phone market will follow the home computer market. WinMo will be the leader, Apple will be second, and the others will still hold on to the market, but they won't ever eclipse WinMo and Apple once the market settles.
Basically, I see the smart phone market as a developing market right now. I don't think today’s numbers and trends are very significant when you are trying to size up long term trends. I believe long term trends, and business school agrees here, will follow several factors, specifically for smart phones those work out like such:
1. Usability: This has to do with speed, UI ease of use, and compatibility with other technologies.
2. Price: The more expensive, the less likely it is to "boom" or "tip" or any of those nice catch phrases.
3. Stickiness: Aka, cool factor, fun factor, hip factor, everyone must have it factor.
I see WinMo, in the long term, leading all others when it comes to usability, as it is a familiar platform that will sync better with already established technologies. It will also be competively priced, except for BB, I don't believe anyone else is as cheap. And stickiness... well the iPhone has that right now, but with proper marketing and better UI, WinMo will catch back up. And FYI, I believe sticky wise it goes 1.iPhone 2. BB Curve 3. G1 4. HTC of sort.
I am rambling and all over the place a bit by now, and since I am not going to edit, I will recap to bring it all together.
Based on my personal experience with WinMo and BB, as a salesman and an end user, as well my knowledge of the market, I believe WinMo devices have the brightest future. Of course, WinMo devices have to overcome their out of the box lack of speed and UI friendliness, but I don't see those as insurmountable obstacles. Rather, I see those as all the more reason to focus on the WinMo platform, as there is going to be a demand for talented programmers capable of achieving that goal, as well, capable of taking advantage of the wide breadth of abilities that WinMo has.

I see where you're going in terms of integration and its benefits towards the future. I guess I'm being a litle short-sighted here, as now I feel the basic smartphone user *isn't* actually integrating.
Admittedly I'm looking primarily (and that's a shortfall of mine) at my own demographic, which is college kids looking for trendiness and wow factor. But I'm willing to bet that if you asked 20 college kids with WinMo or iPhones, you'd find 5 or less of them are actually syncing them to their computer.
As of right now, I believe the general public isn't tieing in their phone with their computer as most, if not all of us on this forum are used to doing. So in terms of integration being a big selling point, I don't see the general public looking at that as highly as us as more tech-savvy people do. Now, I DO believe that when we get far enough in to the future that integration WILL be a major selling point, but I believe the near future still seperates phone from computer.
The question of what attracts people to a phone is a rather interesting one. This is another assumption I'm making, but I believe what draws people to the iPhone is part trendy factor, part status symbol and part "you can do so many things with it so easily". I'm definitely open to being proven wrong, and I guess my argument comes from pure assumption and a bit of knowledge on how the college-kid's-brain functions, but I do see the average college kid as a fairly accurate representation of the general public.
It may look from all my posts that I'm very pro-iPhone, which isn't necessarily true. We can all agree that Apple has done many things right with their phone. I'm just interested in how it gained its popularity. If one were to see just how popular it was going to become and jumped on developing apps on it very early, there is a giant profit to be made here.
That's what I'm looking for-- what will peak in the coming years?

met3ora said:
I see where you're going in terms of integration and its benefits towards the future. I guess I'm being a litle short-sighted here, as now I feel the basic smartphone user *isn't* actually integrating.
Admittedly I'm looking primarily (and that's a shortfall of mine) at my own demographic, which is college kids looking for trendiness and wow factor. But I'm willing to bet that if you asked 20 college kids with WinMo or iPhones, you'd find 5 or less of them are actually syncing them to their computer.
As of right now, I believe the general public isn't tieing in their phone with their computer as most, if not all of us on this forum are used to doing. So in terms of integration being a big selling point, I don't see the general public looking at that as highly as us as more tech-savvy people do. Now, I DO believe that when we get far enough in to the future that integration WILL be a major selling point, but I believe the near future still seperates phone from computer.
The question of what attracts people to a phone is a rather interesting one. This is another assumption I'm making, but I believe what draws people to the iPhone is part trendy factor, part status symbol and part "you can do so many things with it so easily". I'm definitely open to being proven wrong, and I guess my argument comes from pure assumption and a bit of knowledge on how the college-kid's-brain functions, but I do see the average college kid as a fairly accurate representation of the general public.
It may look from all my posts that I'm very pro-iPhone, which isn't necessarily true. We can all agree that Apple has done many things right with their phone. I'm just interested in how it gained its popularity. If one were to see just how popular it was going to become and jumped on developing apps on it very early, there is a giant profit to be made here.
That's what I'm looking for-- what will peak in the coming years?
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I agree with you in general here... I am looking into the future as much as possible as that is what you seem to be asking about... "what will peak in the coming years?"
I also agree that in general, the average user isn't syncing their phone with their computer and are looking more towards ease of use. That is why I tried, and maybe failed, to emphasis that WinMo needs to improve that aspect in order for it to pop as I believe it will.
WinMo as it is right now is not very user friendly. The UI is outdated and not touch friendly. Out of the box the phones are slow and cumbersome for the "trendy" market.
But in 3 years, I don't believe that will be true anymore of WinMo devices. I believe they will increase in speed, and thus useability. I believe the UI will become more friendly to the end consumer, especially the low tech end user that WinMo seems to miss out on.
This isn't to say there are no "non-techy" users of WinMo, there are plenty, probably more than are super techy like us. But even those "non-techy" WinMo users have a bit more tech knowledge than your average BB user.
Basically, what I am getting at is that in the long term, 3 years from now when you are graduating, 10 years from now, and so forth, WinMo has a brighter future than other platforms for the very reason it will integrate better, and its current downsides are easily fixed compared to other OS downsides.

Pocket PC's are not good with cameras, they don't have good battery life, 65 colors and no multitouch, not apps preinstalled, difficut for the average user, they don't handle games right (they are good games out there but they are old),no visibility under sun and on top of that the new models can't handle non converted videos (thanks god I have Asus P535)...
That's why the public doesn't like Windows Mobile. And 6.5 - Wow transperent bars and new start menu - nothing at all. The hope for Windows Mobile is Nvidia Tegra.. !

One thing I have trouble with is gauging how long it takes for things to happen. WinMo is behind on UI's, true, but is trying to be saved by 3rd party UI's like TouchFlo and TouchWiz. I think a lot of the problem is that WinMo DOES have the reputation of being slow and not user friendly. Of course, this reputation is due to the out of the box experience, which is very crucial.
But how long will it take for people to be comfortable with WinMo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most people are now buying WinMo phones that have custom UI's on top of them (HTC, Samsung, etc), and I think this will really help in the revival of WM as a "good" OS.
Now, Android is starting out with the initial impression that it is touch friendly, fast and customizable. WinMo is gonna need to dig itself out of the hole that is its own stereotypes, and I believe Android has the advantage BECAUSE of its initial impression.
Thoughts?

An Open Letter to Android via Google and Forwarded to Samsung

Hi XDA-Samsung Users,
I've been a member of XDA since Jan last year. I went from owning a Nexus One to a Samsung Galaxy S i9000. The reason for the change was for the better specs and superior hardware of the Samsung Galaxy.
The phone is an incredible piece of machinery, but is severely hampered by the modifications that Samsung makes to the Android OS. I admit that the codec support within TouchWiz is impressive, but too much of the core framework of the phone is inefficient and sluggish.
Even using the latest release of unofficial firmware Samsung, Android 2.2.1 (JPY), there is still the occasional hang and the missing RAM (which is there somewhere, but not for user applications).
Samsung is mostly to blame, but there is also a quality control element that Google should be responsible for.
I have prepared an open letter that I sent to Android via Google Press and then forwarded on to Samsung for their reference. This were all through publicly available channels so will have to filter through customer service centers and the like.
I'm not expecting much, Google appears to use Amazon's customer service approach, "No customer service is good customer service".
But would like to post it here to hopefully get it out into the wilderness.
I tweeted it here http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/27528781828722688
and would appreciate if you agreed with the content to retweet it. Hopefully it should give it a bit more weight.
It would be interesting to get the communities feedback on how mature they believe Android is.
Do they need to keep trying to make everyone happy or can they start to use the weight of their OS to get manufacturers to align the user experience?
Dear Android Team,
I am writing this letter to air my frustrations and to hopefully get some peace of mind that your strategy for Android will resolve some of the main issues plaguing the platform.
I have now been with Android for over 12 months. I used to be an iPhone user, but couldn’t stand the walled garden that Apple put me in. I couldn’t download directly to the phone, replace the messaging app or sync wirelessly. I went to Android because I wanted the freedom to use my phone more as a desktop replacement than as a phone/mp3 player.
When I joined the Android family (January 2010), I started with the Google Nexus One. I was so keen to get into the Android community I didn’t even wait for it to be on sale in Australia to get it, thus I hit eBay and bought it outright.
I was very pleased with the platform but could still see a few rough edges around the Operating System. It had the usability I was looking for but was lacking the polish I had grown use to with Apple. There was good news on the horizon with an Éclair update that would give the already beautiful phone a nudge in the right direction. As I was in Australia and the phone wasn’t here yet, I had to push the update through myself, after seeing how easy this was and getting the feeling of being a little phone hacker, I was hooked, I started preaching Android to the masses. Australia is still building momentum for the platform and it’s taking some time. Most of the major carriers stock between 4-6 Android devices, most of which are low end or outdated in the overseas markets.
I follow all the key players in the industry through Twitter and have a majority of Google News trackers picking up articles with android related words. I have also now converted my Wife to Android (HTC Desire Z, also not available in Aus) and I picked up the Samsung Galaxy S and gave my sister the Nexus One. The problem I face now is that I’ve run out of money and can’t go out and buy a new Android phone just to be up to date with the latest Android OS (Gingerbread), this would also be the case for most consumers. The Nexus S is so similar to my current hardware that I must be able to leverage the extra performance from the update.
But alas, we reach the major problem with the platform. Fragmentation. I’m not referring to the Fragmentation of the various app stores and apps available based on different OS versions but more to the Fragmentation of the OS based on the custom skins and manufacturer update cycles. The open platform that is closed at 2 levels, Manufactures and Carriers. I will continue to buy my phones outright as it gives me the freedom and flexibility to upgrade my plans as better ones become available. This always guarantees that I’m free from the bloatware that is preloaded on most Carrier bought phones and free from 1 of the barriers to the true AOSP experience. The next barrier is one that is running rampant in the interwebs rumour mill at the moment and that’s manufacturer updates and in my case I refer to Samsung.
Samsung Galaxy S phones come loaded with Android 2.1, most of them internationally are running Android 2.2 and just recently as select group of the devices is getting Android 2.2.1. This is now a month after Android 2.3 was released. For Samsung I would consider this largely negligent, considering they had the opportunity to work with Google to build a Google Experience Phone (Nexus S). The specs of this phone are so similar to the Galaxy range that a port shouldn’t be too difficult. I understand that there are a lot of constraints and dependencies in the development cycle that could cause delays as well as manufacturers agendas (mostly in unit sales). It is great that Samsung have sold so many devices globally but at a cost of the user experience as well as potential damages to long term retention.
I understand the Open nature of Android and the push to encourage manufacturers to put there own spin on the platform, but Android is getting bigger and more mature, it doesn’t need to be High school girl bending to the whims and peer pressure from the carriers and manufacturers.
There are a team of Devs in Germany who are working to port CyanogenMod 7 (Gingerbread) to Galaxy S i9000, but these guys have now spent over four months just trying to get through Samsungs drivers. The team didn’t start just to customise the phone but to actually make the phone work properly, I of course refer to the RFS lag issue and Samsungs modification to the framework that slowed it down. The goal of the team is to maximise the potential of the hardware and operating system.
It would be great to see some muscle from Google thrown into the mix, there doesn’t need to be requirements dictated, but maybe ethics encouraged.
There seems to be a few options here:
- Encourage device manufacturers to share their drivers, if it is too sensitive to share at least work with the community to help them do it themselves.
- Start to break down the way the platform is customised so that way the manufactures (Samsung/HTC/Motorola) skin the platform can sit a layer above the core code, thus be a quick implementation/customisation to get their skins working.
- Get each manufacturer to offer the AOSP experience to advanced users. This can be done through an agreement between the user and manufacture that states this will void the warranty and have its own terms and conditions.
- This last one is a long stretch, but how about taking all the manufacturers drivers into a repository, the way Windows do updates. When a new Android version is developed the drivers can be updated or incorporated and be packaged out through the Android SDK.
I may be completely off the mark. I’m not a developer and couldn’t pretend to know what effort is involved at any stage of the process, from building Android to rolling it out into the latest and greatest phone. The one thing I am though is an End User, a person that wants my phone to do more, to get close to being a desktop replacement.
Maybe I’m also being a bit idealistic.
I hope the Android platform continues to flourish and for it to become the Windows of the mobile era.
Sincerely,
Irwin Proud
E: [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It's really an excellent summary. Consider there're even more black sheeps out there. For example Sony Ericcson which ones recently made a statement like Android is their favourite Smartphone OS and left Symbian in Nokias hands.
But we found also the good ones like HTC, which every Manufacturer should have HTC as its Paragon concerning Android Software Development.

Great write-up; I agree 100%

I agree with your post fully, and concur that the Windows Phone 7 model for OS updates is more efficient, and strikes a happy medium between iOS and Android's approach to upgrades. However it is also more restrictive in terms of handset hardware limitations
I suppose the idea is that customers should vote with their wallets and buy from companies with good software and firmware support. The problem with that is a majority of phone users (android or otherwise) are technically savvy enough to take such support into consideration when looking at the latest and greatest fancy phone in a store. We could all buy the Nexus One or Nexus S only, but this too is restrictive to the customer as other phones offer more/different features

my 2 cents worth:
I agree on your points - but I'd skip the first few paragraphs if I were the one who write the letter. Other than that, thank you for making the effort.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.

What Google should do?
Toss3 said:
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please allow me to politely disagree. Google can do a lot about this and they have done this also. When I say they have done this - I am talking about not having Market application on Android OSes which come on non-phone hardware.
Google should put similar restrictions for loosley coupled skins, upgradable drivers. I had been giving this a lot of thought lately. I will sum up my thoughts with above letter as above:-
i) Device manufacturer skinning - Google should mandate that it should be just another APK within AOSP and users should be given a choice to turn it off.
ii) Device Drivers - Google should mandate there should be a better way of installing device drivers - similar to what we have in MS Windows (MS Windows is an excellent model of how hardware device should be handled - this lead to the exponential growth Windows is enjoying now).
iii) Android OS Update - If Google can achieve the above two, then the choice to upgrade the OS should be at user discretion. Of course, Google should mandate that there is OTA availble as an option. And obviously this OTA would be served by Google, not by device manufacturers. This would also free up time, effort and cash spent by device manufacturers in upgrading the OS.
So this is in the best of interest of everybody.
These restrictions if put in place, would free us all from this phenomena of running outdated OS.

Not sure what ti say on this one. It's true that Samsung has failed on some levels, however I must say that this is the first phone that has allowed me to get to know so much about the internals of the Android OS.
Modifying kernels, ROM's, reading about different file-systems etc... it's not a thing for the common user but I expect the people on this forum to be interested in such things.
Ok, if Samsung had done it right, we may have discussed these things anyway but it would've drawn less attention as people would not be looking for solutions to their problems.
But of course we have to strive to quality for everyone and this letter may just open some people's eyes at both Google and Samsung.

Thank you so far for the feedback.
poundesville said:
my 2 cents worth:
I agree on your points - but I'd skip the first few paragraphs if I were the one who write the letter. Other than that, thank you for making the effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember most members of XDA would be a cut above the average user. The reason this letter was written the way it was, was to demonstrate that I am a typical end user. Although I would consider myself leaning slightly to the more advanced side I wrote the letter based on a very general experience of the platform, an experience a lot of consumers would go through.
Toss3 said:
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What am I trying to achieve with this letter?
I really don’t know, but it helps to just get the thoughts out there.
With approximately 300,000 activations daily, I don’t think Android sees the true reflection of how their platform is received.
When the Galaxy range of phones was released in the US, they would have been seen as the closest thing to an iPhone that non-AT&T customers could get. So sales and activations shouldn’t be seen as the indicator of clever consumers or consumers wanting an open platform, but of consumers who wanted an iPhone but for the various reasons didn’t want to go with AT&T.
Remember: The international Samsung Galaxy is the only Android phone I know of that looks more like an iPhone than any other phone.
What I would really like to see is, that annually google will release a major version of Android. So V1, V2, V3, etc…. the mobile manufacturers commit to any minor or incremental updates per major version. So if Google says they are releasing Android 2.4 then they are saying to the manufacturer that this version will also work on any phone that currently supports v2.1 to v2.3.
As more and more people move to smartphones and tablets, more and more will we see hackers, spammers, botnets and so on attempt to access our devices. If we can’t have the latest updates that close any open holes then our phones become a huge liability.
Pierreken said:
Not sure what ti say on this one. It's true that Samsung has failed on some levels, however I must say that this is the first phone that has allowed me to get to know so much about the internals of the Android OS.
Modifying kernels, ROM's, reading about different file-systems etc... it's not a thing for the common user but I expect the people on this forum to be interested in such things.
Ok, if Samsung had done it right, we may have discussed these things anyway but it would've drawn less attention as people would not be looking for solutions to their problems.
But of course we have to strive to quality for everyone and this letter may just open some people's eyes at both Google and Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really sure if Samsung has failed as such, but have put too much focus on unit sales rather than quality control and great user experience. They started releasing different iterations and modifications to the same phone without considering that each minor tweak to the hardware would mean more resources to develop updates and maintain each device.
I also agree that without Samsung I would know very little about linux filesystems, kernel and custom roms, but shouldn't all of these be more to push the phone above it's limits and not to just get it working properly?
There's nothing wrong with knowing the advanced stuff, however it shouldn't be a necessity.

The problem ironically is that Android is open source. I agree wit the letter above, but I can;t see how you can stop manufacturers doing what they want.
Also the Drivers being proprietary isn't going to change and device manufacturers aren't going to suddenly start releasing their closed driver sources.
Agreed Google should stand up and restrict the Skins to a single APK that can be removed, this would stop all the associated problems with HTC and Samsung skinning too deep in to the OS that it becomes impossible to remove it. The problem with that is, then any manufacturers APK will be installable on any phone. Which is something we know they don't want.
We already know Androids biggest downfall and so does Google. Fragmentation.
I believe once Google has the strong position they want and users demand Android when they buy a new phone, they will start to put their foot down and try to enforce standardisation across Manufacturers, but until they get to what they feel is that point, we're stuck.
Anyway much luck with the letter, I hope someone who matters get's to see it.
Logicalstep

Poll--Better Cornerstone build

Just wanted your opinions on which dev has the best Onskreen Cornerstone build right now. I have installed both CM9 and Eos i personally prefer Eos' build they are doing a great job with the dev so far. Great job on both roms though. And are there any other roms with OSCS built in these are the only two im aware of.
I can deal with the minor bugs I really couldn't see my TF without OSCS now im spoiled

I'd personally love a completely stock with cornerstone and stock buttons. I like the Asus quick panel and soundset
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium

I like the Team EOS better.
After using Cornerstone for a day, you cannot imagine life without it. I know the feeling.

jinsoku3g said:
I'd personally love a completely stock with cornerstone and stock buttons. I like the Asus quick panel and soundset
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is pretty much what I'm holding out for, a nice stock rom with cornerstone.

st0nedpenguin said:
This is pretty much what I'm holding out for, a nice stock rom with cornerstone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which can't happen right now because we ain't got no source code yet.

i flashed back to ARHD to many bugs for me to use as daily (especially now with the dock) waiting for a good solid CS build screen swapping would be cool if they release the source for that (not likely soon)

Here is some important information from the CEO of Onskreen directly to Diane Hackborn of Google, I've not read this on this site, I was directed here after an email with consumer relations with Onskreen while asking if the window-swappng option was going to be re-implemented..their reply was basically "no, and here is why; read this comment" so here is what they said..
(my emphasis)
hansmeet sethi - I am the CEO of Onskreen and felt it was about time we weighed in on the public discussion. To start off with, we have been impressed by the level of discussion on this thread on the topic of compatibility. We take it very seriously and are glad that the rest of the community do as well.
+Dianne Hackborn - Thanks for sharing specific concerns and we can appreciate their gravity and the need for a dialogue. However, outside of the implementation details perhaps some background will help. Onskreen saw an obvious need in the UX of Android on larger screen devices (that is our business after all), and we worked to address that with Cornerstone. During the process, we have invested heavily to respect Android's intentions and compatibility of the Frameworks you helped build. When you get a chance to review the code, you will see that we went out of our way to not introduce app requirements, leverage the patterns already used, and treat running Applications in a way that they are oblivious to the Cornerstone experience. We rejected many features along the way to optimize for compatibility. The result is a product that we are proud of, respects the Android project, that the user and mod communities are excited about, and OEMs love. And frankly, once you use a tablet with multi-tasking there is no going back. We are the first to admit the product is not perfect, but was at a point where we felt comfortable sharing with the community to use, help improve and polish. We see the goal of this conversation as a way to come to an agreement on some of the aspects of Compatibility and deliver multi-tasking on Android.
Now - a few of your concerns:
- Orientation - Good points, and we spent a ton of time thinking through the UX here. Cornerstone adheres to the desired orientation of the Application running in the Main Panel (and rotation of the device). Cornerstone restricts the user from opening an app that won't support all orientations in the Cornerstone panel, so there is not a case where an app running there is forced into an orientation the app developer did not intend to run in (try opening Angry Birds in the Cornerstone and you will see this). There is more here but I will leave it at that for the time being.
- Screen size changes - You point out the complexity of a changing screen size on an app. We agree and this is the reason that swapping panels (applications moving from the main area to the cornerstone or vice versa) was removed from the product. Apps at this point just aren't enforced to consider this, so Cornerstone imposing it on them would be incompatible and we don't (although we all sorely miss the feature). One area we are still considering is the Config of the main app. Logically this should change when the user minimizes/maximizes the Cornerstone, however the implementation is not doing that because of compatibility issues it would introduce. To be fully compliant we are aware that we will may have to remove the ability to minimize/maximize the Cornerstone (we will miss that feature too). Perhaps you have some suggestions here?
- ProcessRecord/ActivityThread Configurations - As you mentioned, while the ActivityStack was refactored out during your exploration, other inherent dependencies on a static Configuration do still exist. Some interesting features could be enabled by expanding this, but we didn't make these changes so that the Cornerstone codebase could more easily be used in customized Android trees of OEMs and others, as well as perhaps in upcoming Android releases.
- CDD Compliance - We take this one very seriously and you bring up good points. However, our intention is that each area (the main panel and cornerstone panels) be designed as CDD compliant sizes. That is not fully the case in the .85 release that was open sourced. As we made the switch to v4.0.3_r1 and the 1280x800 reference device (Xoom), we haven't made all these changes yet. It may require that some of the panels in certain orientations run in a pseudo compatibility mode similar to how the Android OS supports legacy apps already so that their config is CDD compliant and the UX is optimized.
- CTS - One test in CTS calls for any Activity that doesn't have the focus to be moved to the paused state. This is obviously not the case in Cornerstone as Activities do stay resumed when not having the focus and still are visible on the screen. Google could ding Cornerstone for that and in truth they would be technically correct. However this would be silly considering the nature of the test when applied to a real multi-tasked environment. That is not our call however.
In short, we think about the same problems you do and we believe in the product as well as maintaining the integrity of Android applications and devices. You of all people can appreciate the complexity in working with the Android framework in the way we have to get Cornerstone built, and to call it a fork is doing the design and engineering effort that went into it a disservice. We see the point of AOSP and contributions like Cornerstone to create a dialogue, come to agreement and add great features to the platform. To that end, we are more than happy to continue this conversation. Some of us are in the bay area and happy to drop by Google if you prefer.
hansmeet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

thats pretty cool but i will miss having the features im sure the community will implement our own twist on it though. to bad for the screen swapping though .
on a different note CM9 with cornerstone is moving along quite well a lot more stable ROM can i vote again lol

Cornerstone is just a placeholder for me until Windows 8 is released for tablets.
Definitely switching to Windows 8 unless Google adds to Android a comparable multitasking capability.

Just stock, I like stock ICS on TF101 (after reboot and pc connection issue removed...) and don't see any pro's in any other ROM for me...

Pretty much all of the concessions that they have or are discussing making to cornerstone are quickly removing the reason for having it at all. There are plenty of apps that already are not compatible with many devices and resolutions. Crippling a feature because you "can't" create new app requirements is silly. This is the area where google(and cornerstone) have the potential to destroy apple. As these devices get faster and bigger, you can't stick with the one app at a time paradigm.
I understand google is trying to remove the "fragmentation" but your OS can't evolve if that outweighs everything else.

gottahavit said:
Pretty much all of the concessions that they have or are discussing making to cornerstone are quickly removing the reason for having it at all. There are plenty of apps that already are not compatible with many devices and resolutions. Crippling a feature because you "can't" create new app requirements is silly. This is the area where google(and cornerstone) have the potential to destroy apple. As these devices get faster and bigger, you can't stick with the one app at a time paradigm.
I understand google is trying to remove the "fragmentation" but your OS can't evolve if that outweighs everything else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google will add better multitasking to Android. They have to or they will lose to Windows 8.
Cornerstone is just not Google's answer to multitasking on Android. I bet Google has something better.

horndroid said:
Google will add better multitasking to Android. They have to or they will lose to Windows 8.
Cornerstone is just not Google's answer to multitasking on Android. I bet Google has something better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with windows 8 is that a windows tablet will always cost 100 dollars more than the same android tablet. Add to that the fact that you'll have to re-buy all your apps for ARM or Metro and they have a tough battle ahead in the consumer market.
Personally I Find Metro totally annoying on my 17" laptop, I think Microsoft is having an identity crisis with windows 8. The last thing I want on my laptop is forced full screen apps. Honestly Metro is a little to Android(ish) for what I would want on a tablet once they get a little more powerful and have better rez.
EDIT: I should qualify this with the fact that I am a die hard windows fan, I LOVE windows 7, prefer coding for windows over any other OS EVER, and absolutely hate MAC OS.

gottahavit said:
The problem with windows 8 is that a windows tablet will always cost 100 dollars more than the same android tablet. Add to that the fact that you'll have to re-buy all your apps for ARM or Metro and they have a tough battle ahead in the consumer market.
Personally I Find Metro totally annoying on my 17" laptop, I think Microsoft is having an identity crisis with windows 8. The last thing I want on my laptop is forced full screen apps. Honestly Metro is a little to Android(ish) for what I would want on a tablet once they get a little more powerful and have better rez.
EDIT: I should qualify this with the fact that I am a die hard windows fan, I LOVE windows 7, prefer coding for windows over any other OS EVER, and absolutely hate MAC OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care. All that matters is that Windows 8 will motivate Google to add some real multitasking capability to its Android OS. We all know how competitive Google is. They will do it, and it won't be Cornerstone. It will be something better.

horndroid said:
I don't care. All that matters is that Windows 8 will motivate Google to add some real multitasking capability to its Android OS. We all know how competitive Google is. They will do it, and it won't be Cornerstone. It will be something better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kinda, my point. have you used Windows 8 Multitasking? it looks too much like Honeycomb except they keep apps actually running. This is of course Metro, native apps are still good old windows. This isn't Microsoft putting out something for google to steal or envy, it's Microsoft going "OHHH everybody love android and IOS, they must all want "one app at a time" style OS.

I ask you your opinion (Android vs iOS)

I currently have two tablet: ASUS Transformer and new iPad. I am writing an article on the Android vs iOS (only the operating system).
I would like to hear users' opinions about why you chose Android, or do you own both? What is good or bad is in Android/iOS. What Apple/Google is doing better than Apple/Google. If your answer is, Apple is crap, do not bother to comment.

Andoid: Open source
iOS: closed source with limited functionality.
Enough said.

People hold strong opinions so watch out because this article will flame like hell. I will say that Apple is crap, but I will explain why I say this. Given the freedom of Android, I'd choose nothing else. Given the advanced level of control over your device, I'd choose nothing else. Given the open source availability of our beloved OS, I'd choose nothing else. Given the diverse choice of apps on the Play Store and the larger amount of free apps, I'd choose nothing else. Aside from that sort of stuff, Apple's BS just plain ticks me off. How these a-holes can actually try to monopolize the technology industry and file all of these lawsuits against their competitors (not to mention the fact that they are being goddamned hipsters and trying to claim that they invented the slide-to-unlock and face unlock features... I'm truly surprised they haven't dug up the inventor of the wheel and tried to sue him). Samsung, Google, and all of their competitors are forking out an arm and a leg to lawyers. Sorry if I seem like I'm pissy, I just don't like the fact that Apple is trying to ruin Android, when it's so beautiful.
This is my Tapatalk 2 signature. Rockin' the app on my Nook Color running ICS 4.0.4, courtesy of Dalingrin, Fattire, and our other beloved XDA weenies (nemith, keyodi, arcee, hacdan, etc.)

Hi!!,
I currently have iPad 1stGen and TF101
I just decide to change to Android becouse of many mods and tweaks i can do (open source), it's very funny for me, and with patience and read, you can play withot kill your data.
I have to say that iOS (Without jailbreak) is boring for me. But iOS have a year of advantage versus android, in terms of quality and performance hardware-software, and they sell more devices, and more, and more, so they have more customers, more potential buyers and much more money to spend.
Both are similar, a store... a developer community... the fact is that in a future, I think one cannot survive without the other. And android is growing too!.
rjarl

Goatshocker said:
Andoid: Open source
iOS: closed source with limited functionality.
Enough said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if that's a benefit to the end user.
Some would argue that android is buggy and has low quality apps because it's so "open", while apples tight reign over the iOS ecosystem ensures a reliable, consistent and high-quality experience for the user.
Honestly, the "average person" doesn't give a damn about open or closed source. They just want something that works with minimal fuss, and that's why Apple can sell more iPads in a week than all Android manufacturers can in a quarter.
I love android because it can do everything I need it to do. My wife loves iOS because it allows her to do everything she wants it to do. The difference is that I'm always maintaining my Android devices, that is, I'm always monitoring the battery or checking for excess wake locks or apps that don't play nice, which she doesn't have to worry about those things at all.

Both are around to suits difference preference in term of functionality, design and fashioned for end users like us..
Some really like to customised, root, flashing and all those freedom you would get in Android world but some doesn't bother and use what the gadget has to offer officially and some just follow others or the latest technology without knowing what best..
I have a friend who just follow and get what others have. Everybody in the office bought iPad and so does she but all she knows and do is playing the build-in facebook mini games.. Jailbreaking an iPad/iPhone wouldn't be as good as rooting an Android devices ..
I choose Android both phone and tablet for the easy customise(root, CWM and custom roms) and the ability to connect to PC as removable drive without needing another program to run..
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium HD app

I love my android tablet. The flexibility is key for me. Maybe the average user doesn't care about open source, but the average user could care about things like, widgets, different keyboards, customization of the homescreens. For me I like, and pick my android products based on the development community around it. I had a G-tablet first, now an asus slider. And I own an HTC incredible, running ICS, something it was never thought it would be able to do, and its all because there is a great community around it.

farsight73 said:
.... the ability to connect to PC as removable drive without needing another program to run..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to that, one of his greats features!!!! just like a removable disk

Need to ask question in other venues. Asking here is like asking if you should buy a chevy truck on a ford truck forum.

I use both. The IOS platform is largely an application launcher. As such it has some limitations on it's functionality. This is by design to make it easy for new users to learn and use, and most of all remember. The ISO interface is very clean and simple and was built by some amazing designers. Given the numbers of IOS users it is obvious this strategy of clean design and simplicity has worked.
Android looks very much like what I see in a lot of application designed by developers. It has a lot of developer centric features such as extensive settings and customizations. The UI has some behaviors that must be learned and remembered to operate effectively. One example is press and hold to get to additional functionality.
Because it was developed by developer instead of UI designers, Android is more feature rich. It makes extensive use of multi-tasking and multi-threading. Also, Intents makes functionality sharing and extensions to the UI such as different keyboards very easy. But, this also increases the complexity
At the end of the day neither system is right or wrong. They are just right for different sets of users.
- IOS is easy to learn and remember. Everything works by apps and you can press one button to get back to familiarity of home. This restricts the options you have in apps which is perfect for a more casual user.
- Android allows for complex UIs which can let users interact with apps in complex manners. This can result in a very powerful app, or a complex mess. But, this is the type of apps and Android is the type of OS that power users want.
Jerry

The question Android vs iOS is same Linux vs Windows...
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

I've owned both iOS and Android devices. I'm currently using an iPad2 64GB 3G. Android has the potential to be a great tablet OS, but as it stands currently it's just too much of a mess IMHO. In order of importance (too me) I feel that display, followed by OS stability, functionality, developer support, and customization are the deciding factors in choosing a device. The custom ROMS within the Android camp are nice (I primarily used the Revolver ones), however all the goodness that ICS was suppose to bring about fizzled. Perhaps the communities expectations were high. The TF201 (which i tried and returned) was rushed to market for bragging rights (Quad Core and Ice Cream), while overlooking so many design flaws (MicroSD Slot, WiFi performance, GPS, colour saturation, and most importantly OS Stability). In addition ASUS position on locking the unit down means that those wishing to try a Developers ROM are forced to void their warranty. So what do I miss now in iOS? Well widgets are the biggest thing. Those and live wallpapers tho I'd bet chew into one's battery.
One thing that nagged at me was the disparity of data plans. I use an older Palm Pixi Plus (cell phone). On that I pay $10 for 100MB. When I was living with the TF101 I could tether it to the Palm (but it was slow), so I looked into the portable hotspot solutions. The problem I saw was the huge price differences (data regardless of the device accessing it should be priced the same IMO) 5GB on a Flex Plan costs $70, whereas 5GB on the iPad costs $35.
Prior to the iPad I've never owned a single Apple device and a despised iTunes for all it's bloatware and autostart services, I've ran Windows (since 3.11 ) and Ubuntu (since Hardy) on my systems.
There are alot of biases between these 2 camps, frankly I just want a device that works as advertised, doesn't crash and force me to reboot or cold start. The first time any of us pick up a device to complete a task while wondering if the device will work as we hope, is the time we should be asking ourselves is that device honestly meeting our needs

It should be noted that while we have the option of customizing Android to our hearts content, customizing can lead to a drop in stability and poor battery life. Custom ROMS can often break basic functions of the OS and make apps incompatible or just plain unstable.
What Apple users miss from android, they gain in device stability, app compatibility, amazing battery life, consistent app experience and a simple "pickup and go" experience. This is what most people are looking for. Even the average android user won't take advantage of widgets, custom keyboards, custom ROMS and kernels , etc. That stuff is often reserved for the power users who like to tweak and control everything on their device... And power users make up a small percent of the total user base.

worldindo1 said:
People hold strong opinions so watch out because this article will flame like hell. I will say that Apple is crap, but I will explain why I say this. Given the freedom of Android, I'd choose nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kind of freedom are you talking about? I can't even root this thing, so it might as well be IPad in my hands right now..
I haven't used any apple device and probably won't. Because of the price. That's what makes difference between Apple and Android devices before I even have got any

EP2008 said:
It should be noted that while we have the option of customizing Android to our hearts content, customizing can lead to a drop in stability and poor battery life. Custom ROMS can often break basic functions of the OS and make apps incompatible or just plain unstable.
What Apple users miss from android, they gain in device stability, app compatibility, amazing battery life, consistent app experience and a simple "pickup and go" experience. This is what most people are looking for. Even the average android user won't take advantage of widgets, custom keyboards, custom ROMS and kernels , etc. That stuff is often reserved for the power users who like to tweak and control everything on their device... And power users make up a small percent of the total user base.
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Agreed the vast majority of users have no interest is hacking their device. They want it to simply work!
Further someone mentioned that price is a factor. Yes however now that we've seen a price drop on the iPad2 it's a moot point

hairpower said:
What kind of freedom are you talking about? I can't even root this thing, so it might as well be IPad in my hands right now..
I haven't used any apple device and probably won't. Because of the price. That's what makes difference between Apple and Android devices before I even have got any
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To answer your question simply. Without jailbreaking an ios device you cannot:
1ownload roms or any emulators, this includes all SNES,n64,psx etc etc
2:You cannot run freeware music software like grooveshark ( my favorite), it was banned from appstore, and now only resides in cydia (jailbreak + montly fee is required)
3:You cannot download torrents. Jailbreak is required, even then it is a not a good experience.
4: you cannot transfer files directly to folders, an SHSH connection is required, which requires jailbreak.
All these things you can do without rooting, so you are not holding an ipad device my friend, you would have notice it.
The best thing about android is that developers can make their own apps and spread them for free to the community, that experience can be obtained with iOS and cydia, but It can cause some real problems in your phone, and decrease its battery time.
When you use cydia apps, sometimes you will notice very unstable behavior from your idevice, like winterboard or dreamboarder, which caused my phone to brick itself.
in more simple words, To get an android experience on an apple device, you will make the iOS more unstable than applefanboys claim android to be.

EP2008 said:
Not sure if that's a benefit to the end user.
Some would argue that android is buggy and has low quality apps because it's so "open", while apples tight reign over the iOS ecosystem ensures a reliable, consistent and high-quality experience for the user.
Honestly, the "average person" doesn't give a damn about open or closed source. They just want something that works with minimal fuss, and that's why Apple can sell more iPads in a week than all Android manufacturers can in a quarter.
I love android because it can do everything I need it to do. My wife loves iOS because it allows her to do everything she wants it to do. The difference is that I'm always maintaining my Android devices, that is, I'm always monitoring the battery or checking for excess wake locks or apps that don't play nice, which she doesn't have to worry about those things at all.
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I completely agree, ios is for the simpler person, who do not care about reaching the full potential of their device, they just want it to work.
Sent from my HTC_A510c using xda premium

worldindo1 said:
People hold strong opinions so watch out because this article will flame like hell. I will say that Apple is crap, but I will explain why I say this. Given the freedom of Android, I'd choose nothing else. Given the advanced level of control over your device, I'd choose nothing else. Given the open source availability of our beloved OS, I'd choose nothing else. Given the diverse choice of apps on the Play Store and the larger amount of free apps, I'd choose nothing else. Aside from that sort of stuff, Apple's BS just plain ticks me off. How these a-holes can actually try to monopolize the technology industry and file all of these lawsuits against their competitors (not to mention the fact that they are being goddamned hipsters and trying to claim that they invented the slide-to-unlock and face unlock features... I'm truly surprised they haven't dug up the inventor of the wheel and tried to sue him). Samsung, Google, and all of their competitors are forking out an arm and a leg to lawyers. Sorry if I seem like I'm pissy, I just don't like the fact that Apple is trying to ruin Android, when it's so beautiful.
This is my Tapatalk 2 signature. Rockin' the app on my Nook Color running ICS 4.0.4, courtesy of Dalingrin, Fattire, and our other beloved XDA weenies (nemith, keyodi, arcee, hacdan, etc.)
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totally agree on all points!!!
---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------
from what i gather, iOS is simple whereas android is sophisticated!!!

A year ago I bought an iPad to replace my laptop. I did this because I used my android phone more then my laptop to place things on internet. For example on auction sites.
It wasn't what I expected. iOS is too secure. Something simple like searching a foto in your filesystem and upload it isn't possible. Even when iOS is jailbroken!
Now I have an android tablet, which can replace my laptop completely.
An iPad is nice for internet or reading your mail. Or for an electronics noob.

I can understand if people like iOS more for its stability, but for the generation that's under 35, how can anyone be too stupid to use Android? It's honestly not more complicated (I got my first tablet, TF101, last year in the summer, then my first smartphone about a month ago, SGi777) and you can do so much more. I've used my girlfriend's iPhone a lot (waiting at the bus stop, hanging around her place without anything to do.. etc.) and it's really hard to believe that anyone would want an iOS product for its "simplicity" because I'd say that it took me maybe two hours to understand how to manipulate Android as much as you can manipulate iOS (and of course, I learn more ways to manipulate Android as time goes on because it has so many possibilities that open up as you root and gain more control..).
Now, I'm a physics major, and I work with some computer programming languages, but none of which would really help for my learning experience with Android. I play games, but not much since early high school, so that wasn't it either. I use my computer, but not really for anything that requires super knowledge about computers. I've used iOS on a computer before, I've used Windows on a computer before, and I've used Ubuntu (really awesome, except it doesn't play certain Windows games which made me not completely switch over).
I guess the real difference between the two is the perception held by the masses. Yeah, Android is also cheaper (kind of, I mean, the good phones cost as much as iPhones but go on sale sometimes) so that kind of fuels the perception in lots of places. I know that in China, many of the wealthier folks like to buy things that are superfluously expensive for the reason that they are more expensive (my postdoc mentor being an example), and that's probably one thing that keeps this "iOS is the elite, Android is the poor man's choice" kind of thing going.
Sorry for the rant.
tl;dr: Android is as simple as iOS if you want to do only what iOS can do, but Android gives the user the potential to go farther. The main difference is the perception in the eyes of the masses, and that perception is tied to marketing and prices.

Motorola/Google Project Ara, Phonebloks etc.

http://www.xda-developers.com/android/motorola-announces-modular-smartphone-project-ara/
[Holy ****] Motorola Announces Project Ara, An Open, Modular Smartphone Hardware Platform
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...an-open-modular-smartphone-hardware-platform/
Motorola is inviting people across the globe to become Ara Scouts. Over the next 6 - 12 months, we'll be doing research to shape the direction of Project Ara. You can help by collaborating with us on special missions.
http://www.dscout.com/ara
After the trip, we asked ourselves, how do we bring the benefits of an open hardware ecosystem to 6 billion people? Meet Ara. - See more at:
http://motorola-blog.blogspot.ca/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html
My post at http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...ip-and-offers-another-glimpse-of-project-ara/
I'm excited too, though still cautious/skeptical.
I'm sure MANY people have thought about such a concept Lego-type phone/everything device over the decades. My first serious but skeptical thoughts were in 2001, noting that it seemed wasteful to buy a digital video/still camera (at 2001 prices) over and over again for many different devices. But 12 years have made me even more skeptical about the practical realities.
This holds promise, but without specific guarantees; I look forward to seeing what happens.
Many/most engineers started with Lego or Mechano (my fave) when young and want to see similar in the real, practical world.
Linux is the Lego of Operating Systems.
Android AOSP is the Lego of Mobile Operating Systems.
Google, then MIT App Inventor is at least one of the Lego's of Android app development.
Arduino shields and similar are Lego for micro-controller hardware.
I look forward to Lego like pieces for phones, tablets, "laptops" and other devices.
I guess I'll sign up for the special missions of an "Ara Scout" and hope to not be disappointed: http://www.dscout.com/ara#
EDIT: Uh, oh, looks like DScout is some weird 3rd party thing that makes this all look like a lame-ish marketing ploy at this time...
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Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.

I'm hoping it really happens. And if it is true that Moto has been working on this for a year already then I think its at least somewhat encouraging.

My OP was moved here from the Hardware Hacking forum.
This new section is named "MDK Hacking".
MDK = Module Developer's Kit which will allow 3rd party module development. It's supposed to be released sometime "this winter".
I'm personally interested in getting an FM receiver, AND transmitter module created. While were at it, maybe w/ a chip for HD/Dab+/DMB radio. Might as well keep wishing and go for digital broadcast TV and effectively anything with a Software Defined Radio, LOL.
As for Project Ara in general, a few days of sober second thought, and the reading and thought processing of the several hundred posts I read, have put me more back in the skeptical range.
But I'd be happy even if this went no further than a reasonably successful hobbyist oriented eco-system, like Arduino.
Jane and Joe average "6 pack" could not care less how their phone or tablet were built. But the people who run custom ROMs, and they number in the many millions now, may find this compelling.
I'm imaging a robot, with an Android tablet as a head (with face(s) LOL.) Hooked to the head/brain are redundant communications paths to the rest of the body. The rest of the body may have their own small USB flash drive or less sized Android devices for specialty tasks.
Heck, with the right parts, the robot could disassemble and re-assemble itself, as needed. We've seen Futurama's Bender do so many times, ROFL.
And there are thousands of other cool and interesting non-robot uses for all this stuff. Someday soon, if not already, a sizable percentage of science fair projects will contain a connected Android device.
There may even be many useful business use cases, to add to all the fun stuff.

I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)

Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.

hai vl con bo
sharknado said:
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.
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---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------
mikereidis said:
Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.
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navg fghj fduyhjm
---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------
sharknado said:
I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)
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con bo