I've been doing lots of research lately to find a tablet for my wife - primarily for work, but also for play. She currently has an old Dell laptop and iPhone 4 for reference. She would be using this new machine to input information as she travels from patient to patient (whether in the car or the office), so portability, battery life, and quick input (aka touch input) are key features.
I've narrowed it down to 3 machines:
HP 2740p (12.1" capacitive screen, windows 7, convertible tablet)
Lenovo X201t (12.1" capacitive screen, windows 7, convertible tablet)
Asus eee pad Transformer 32GB + laptop dock
I know these are quite different machines, basically either a small, but powerful and much more expensive, Windows 7 laptop or a smaller, efficient, relatively powerful (for Android) tablet. I have no problem maintaining / tweaking / hacking both android tablets and Windows 7 tablets and getting them into a more user friendly state for my wife to use, so that's not really an issue.
My question is does anyone have side by side experience with the TF and either the HP or Lenovo? The screens on the windows tablets are matte and do ok outdoors, but how would the TF with a matte screen protector perform outdoors? Is the TF 10.1" screen too small for work? My wife primarily uses the laptop for low complexity word processing and spreadsheets (so a keyboard is crucial), email communications, and internet research, but I am sure how she uses it will change as we explore touch input - so is Android Honeycomb (currently) too limiting? I know my program possibilties are much more capable with a windows machine, but do we really need those. I've read that many have basically replaced their netbook / laptop with the TF, but I think this is based on how one needs to use the machine.
We will also be using this for some personal use (i.e., playing netflix, entertaining the kids, ebook reading, etc.) so that plays into some.
Thanks for any insight one can offer. I'm trying to keep costs out of the decision and get what she needs, but for what it's worth I can get the TF 32GB + keyboard dock for $650 shipped vs a refurbished HP 2740p with an i5 560M for $1,050 + extended slim battery (~10 hrs) for $100 + 1.8" 60GB SSD for $140 = total just under $1,300 and just over 4.5 pounds for somewhat similar battery life and bootup / resume speed as the TF.
Gabes Dad said:
My wife primarily uses the laptop for low complexity word processing and spreadsheets (so a keyboard is crucial), email communications, and internet research, but I am sure how she uses it will change as we explore touch input - so is Android Honeycomb (currently) too limiting?
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YES, Honeycomb is too limiting; the office suits available for it are only good for viewing and small quick edits. Despite having a touch screen, even the smallest word processing task takes too much time. Therefore I wouldn't recommend an Android Tablet for office related tasks.
EDIT : If cost is a factor, then get a 10" netbook, that would be far more efficient than a Transformer with a keyboard.
It should do fine with normal word processing (nothing fancy like graph inserts, etc). I think Quickoffice HD's spreadsheet supports equations and such, haven't tried anything on Excel yet.
Phoenix and frosty, thanks for your input.
Since none of the machines are available locally, I might have her look at the Acer Iconic tab A500, which is in stock locally at Best Big to at least get a feel for Android Honeycomb and the screen size / resolution.
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If I needed it for work I would want to make sure that I was using the same apps that my colleagues used. For me that would be MS Office with full macro and add-in support so would restrict me to a Windows device. Your wife may have similar requirements.
Hi Everyone
I wanted to start this thread because one of the major advantages to Windows 8 is the wide range of devices it can be installed on. The way I see it Windows 8 is not meant to be installed on just a single computer but rather provide users an ecosystem of devices to make there computing needs are as simple as possible.
My intended ecosystem goes like this:
1-Windows Phone 8.
I'm going to get a Lumia 900, but I want something that has expandable memory, dual cores (i know its not needed but think of how awesome it will be), and higher resolution. The Lumia 900 likely will get upgraded to Windows Phone 8, but will lack the features i mentioned above and NFC support also. This will be useful for beam file transfers between a phone and tablet.
2-Home Desktop Computer
I'll probably build a new computer with this as I would like a 2nd generation i7 computer, but I think windows 8 on a desktop is still a must for every home. The UI might be cumbersome at first for a desktop, but the performance is unmatched. Providing a remote desktop will also be extremely useful (more on this later).
3-Tablet
Now here is where things could go 2 ways. I have another thread comparing the differences between Intel's cloverfield processors vs WOA (windows on ARM) systems. If you want a full x86 system it would be best to go with the cloverfield processor, however I think these will be more expensive and likely have worse battery life than their WOA counterparts. My ideal tablet would be something very similar to the ASUS Transformer Prime. I like the idea of a keyboard, trackpad, and extend battery addition to a tablet when needed. If a remote desktop solution similar to splashtop comes out on the market for WOA I will definitely get a WOA system. For most tasks the WOA will provide all power needed, and if more is required for games or access to legacy software I'll just remote into my desktop to use over wifi or LTE.
I specifically mentioned splashtop because it is the only remote desktop software I have found on my iPad 2 that offers great frame rates. I can watch movies on my iPad which look like I am sitting at my computer. This would be great for gaming if the iPad would support a mouse. Window 8 won't have that downfall.
I have been going back and forth with this decision, but what made it clear was the ability to have an ecosystem. Cloverfield systems will likely offer netbook type performance which really isn't enough for my everyday needs. I think these systems would be ideal for college students who can afford to only have a single system, however as a working professional I can afford to get more.
4-Xbox 720 (360 2, ???)
I hope the next generation xbox has the windows 8 kernal built into it also. I think it is likely because Microsoft seems to be pushing this ecosystem concept for their next gen software. I also hope it has the same capabilities I have with my Ipad 2 and Apple TV. For example I use this program called AirVideo on my desktop/iPad. This program can transcode any video format (mkv/avi/divx/etc) seemlessly and stream it to my ipad. From my ipad I can use AirPlay to send it to my Apple TV. It is a great hassle free way to get videos from my comp to my big screen without losing quality. i hope windows 8 offers something like this.
Most Notable Devicies I left off.
Kinect Based Systems:
HTPC
I do not see a need for kinect on desktop unless it is a HTPC. A kinect system on a HTPC would offer great controls for viewing TV content, offer a liable way to Skype from your couch, and forever solve the problem of where did you put your remote. HTPCs and Kinect systems go so well it is mind boggling they have no been bundled together before.
Laptop
I have heard rumors that high end laptops will have there webcam replaced by built in kinect sensors. I think this would be really useful on laptops as it offers another mouse input method other than the installed trackpad. While I do not see kinect systems as useful on desktops, I think it could have advantages on a laptop. This is mainly due the portability of a laptop.
A laptop in general would also be a way to combine 2 devices I have on my current ecosystem. With a laptop you won't need a desktop and a tablet as it kind of combines the two. A laptop offers full computing on x86 architecture and still offers portability, however as we all know, it isn't as powerful as a desktop (around the same price point),\ and not as portable as a tablet.
Well thats my ecosystem. I guess you can say I'm going to be going full on metro at some point this year, but at least it will be in a good way . What do you guys have in mind?
right now, i am having an eco system in my house, with a client Windows 7 PC - Windows Phone 7.5 and XBOX 360 + Kinect. I have a TV in my house, which is hooked up with the network line, so i can use the HTC Connected Media to steam the movie from my Hard Drive on PC to the TV without touching the computer.
Or listen to music from hard drive through XBOX in the same way. I just like it this way. Looking forward for the Beta/RC of Windows 8
give it a try
Thank you very much, give it a try
Did Samsung not learn from their law suit not to copy other manufactures? Does this design of the new Samsung windows 8 tablet remind you of anyone else's?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/08/samsung-ativ-smart-pc.jpg
rand33099 said:
Did Samsung not learn from their law suit not to copy other manufactures? Does this design of the new Samsung windows 8 tablet remind you of anyone else's?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/08/samsung-ativ-smart-pc.jpg
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Not really. Looks like a tablet and keyboard to me.
Yup. The Asus Tranformer prime or infinity.
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Got the chance to play with it. Amazing device....
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nnick said:
Got the chance to play with it. Amazing device....
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I like the looks of it. Where did you get a hands on at?
mitchellvii said:
Not really. Looks like a tablet and keyboard to me.
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Thats funny!!
rand33099 said:
Did Samsung not learn from their law suit not to copy other manufactures? Does this design of the new Samsung windows 8 tablet remind you of anyone else's?]
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Apple's issue with the OG G-Tab wasn't just its physical design, it was that, in their view, the OS it ran mimicked iOS and the combination would confuse potential customers. They never went after Windows phones even though they are physically similar to the Android phones they sued over because no one will confuse WP7/8 with iOS. The same thing would apply to W8 tablets.
This is far closer in design to the iPad and yet Apple never went after Asus. They pick and choose their targets carefully. I'd assume that in 2015 if all the appeals run out and Samsung loses Apple will then go back and seek damages from all other Android tablet and phone makers using the Samsung win as precedent.
rand33099 said:
Did Samsung not learn from their law suit not to copy other manufactures? Does this design of the new Samsung windows 8 tablet remind you of anyone else's?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/08/samsung-ativ-smart-pc.jpg
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Nice. Depending on user reviews, that may be my next tablet.
toenail_flicker said:
Nice. Depending on user reviews, that may be my next tablet.
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same here. I doubt I'll let Asus sucker me in to buying another 4 tablets to find 1 usable one.
the tablet in the ops link clearly does not look like i pad. that button/ logo is at the bottom middle of landscape mode .. The ipad is bottom middle of portrate mode...
I would buy one if it could get all day use battery life weigh less then 1.5 lbs without keyboard of course. and prices reasonable. Ok well maybe i would consider it...
Here's a review of a W8 Pro tablet from a reporter that used it for a week. Overall, he was pleased. Here's some of the things he questioned which I think are going to be important to a lot of people. The things I bolded we've talked about and I'd bet you create a lot of chatter once W8 tablets are in people's hands. There's an old adage - "you only get a single chance to make a first impression." How W8 tablets launch and are perceived (outside the enterprise) are going to determine their future. So far all our conversations have been about the things people hope to do with them with no discussion about their limitations. The latter is going to get far more press after their launch. Look at maps and the purple camara flair in the iP5.
The split-screen view is one of my favorite new tricks. The OS supports full multitasking, and with a specific finger swipe maneuver, you can open two different Windows 8 apps on screen. For example, your Mail app can occupy the left pane (which is fixed at roughly one-quarter of the display) while Internet Explorer can sit in the right pane (which dominates the screen). If you like, you can flip their positions, moving the skinnier pane to the right side.
Another neat trick: To switch between open apps, simply drag your finger from the left side of the screen. Its the Windows 8 version of Alt-Tab, and once again demonstrates just how powerful--and fun--the system is relative to the competition. To see a thumbnail filmstrip of all of your open apps, quickly drag your finger right and then left, from the left edge of the screen. To access the Windows 8 "charms" bar--a centralized home for search, sharing, and settings functions, among others--swipe in from the right bezel. All these touch maneuvers became second nature once I learned them, but they're not intuitive from the giddy-up, and they're difficult to describe in words. This could emerge as a public relations pain point for Microsoft. If the company is smart, it will build a force-run demo video into Windows 8--something that pops up the first time someone turns on the new hardware.
Challenging learning curves aside, I found the W700's touch controls quick, fluid, and responsive. Screen redraws never lagged or stuttered, and the hardware seemed well-equipped to handle the OS's requirements. We didn't run any benchmarks on our preproduction unit, but if a Core i5 and 4GB of memory can't boss a tablet OS around like a schoolyard bully, Microsoft has serious optimization problems.
Of course, the new Start screen is far from perfect. For one thing, without resorting to third-party utilities, a user who wants to boot straight into the system's desktop mode can't bypass the Start screen. And as Paul Allen recently pointed out, the Start screen has no hierarchical nesting system--so if you have a huge collection of apps, you may find yourself scrolling ad nauseam to find a particular live tile.
All of which brings us to the question of how the W700 and Windows 8 performed in desktop mode. It was far better than some critics have made it out to be, but a device like this definitely presents some compromises. The bigger problem with using the W700 as a traditional PC productivity machine lies in the rendering of the Windows desktop. A resolution of 1920 by 1080 on an 11.6-inch screen makes for tiny fonts, icons, and scroll bars. And because all of these interface elements were so small, I had trouble seeing text in the URL field of Internet Explorer, for example. Likewise, using touch gestures to collapse and exit out of windows--or, for that matter, just navigating around the basic Windows experience that I've been using since Windows 3.1--was a challenge.
Though Windows 8 hasn't even launched yet, it's off to a rocky start. Power users are slamming Microsoft for all the new "features" that subjugate the desktop, and as we reported on Monday, the Windows Store inventory is looking alarmingly thin.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/windows/3402233/acer-w700-review/?pn=1
erica_renee said:
the tablet in the ops link clearly does not look like i pad. that button/ logo is at the bottom middle of landscape mode .. The ipad is bottom middle of portrate mode...
I would buy one if it could get all day use battery life weigh less then 1.5 lbs without keyboard of course. and prices reasonable. Ok well maybe i would consider it...
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Here's what I'm talking about.... Not I-pad
http://www.netbooknews.com/wp-content/2012/07/asus_transformer_infinity_original.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/08/samsung-ativ-smart-pc.jpg
All of which brings us to the question of how the W700 and Windows 8 performed in desktop mode. It was far better than some critics have made it out to be, but a device like this definitely presents some compromises. The bigger problem with using the W700 as a traditional PC productivity machine lies in the rendering of the Windows desktop. A resolution of 1920 by 1080 on an 11.6-inch screen makes for tiny fonts, icons, and scroll bars. And because all of these interface elements were so small, I had trouble seeing text in the URL field of Internet Explorer, for example. Likewise, using touch gestures to collapse and exit out of windows--or, for that matter, just navigating around the basic Windows experience that I've been using since Windows 3.1--was a challenge.
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And this my friends is why Windows tablets will fail. The screen is simply too small to be a laptop replacement and too expensive to be a tablet replacement. Of course some people will like it but it will not find wide acceptance. Add to that that enterprises HATE Windows 8 and you have a recipe for failure.
mitchellvii said:
And this my friends is why Windows tablets will fail. The screen is simply too small to be a laptop replacement and too expensive to be a tablet replacement. Of course some people will like it but it will not find wide acceptance. Add to that that enterprises HATE Windows 8 and you have a recipe for failure.
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I would so have to agree with this. A
As far as the tablets looking alot . well the look is directly related to how it works. the layout and so on . that is why the icrap lawsuits and patents should be tossed out. as well as some other design patents .. its not just a common sense function.. not a design..
The Samsung Ativ Smart PC (series 5 slate) is on presale btw for 650 at staples.
http://www.staples.com/Samsung-Series-5-Slate-Tablet-Pre-Sale/product_477673?catalogId=10051&fromUrl=home&cmSearchKeyword=series+5+slate&cmArea=SEARCH&langId=-1&storeId=10001&ddkey=http:StaplesSearch
Also at Amazon 650 for tablet only and 750 for bundled tab and keyboard for the atom version.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-ATIV-Smart-500T-Tablet/dp/B009LL9U50/ref=sr_1_46?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350074504&sr=1-46&keywords=samsung+ativ+smart+pc
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-ATIV-...074504&sr=1-44&keywords=samsung+ativ+smart+pc
i5 version at 1,200
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-ATIV-Smart-Pro-700T/dp/B0098O9TRO/ref=sr_1_45?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350074504&sr=1-45&keywords=samsung+ativ+smart+pc
mitchellvii said:
And this my friends is why Windows tablets will fail. The screen is simply too small to be a laptop replacement and too expensive to be a tablet replacement. Of course some people will like it but it will not find wide acceptance. Add to that that enterprises HATE Windows 8 and you have a recipe for failure.
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but i think this is closer to true mobile computing. a tablet that "transforms" into a laptop and you can hook up to a monitor and other external components when at home. all with the power of a full OS and better application support than any other tablet.
it's definitely not what everyone wants or needs, but it's something i'm looking forward to.
madsquabbles said:
but i think this is closer to true mobile computing. a tablet that "transforms" into a laptop and you can hook up to a monitor and other external components when at home. all with the power of a full OS and better application support than any other tablet.
it's definitely not what everyone wants or needs, but it's something i'm looking forward to.
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"better application support than any other tablet."
Wait till the product is out for a while before making a claim like that. It reallly puts me off considering a win8 tablet when people proclaim something is this and that, when the damn things not even out yet...........
Saying that, as a current android user i wish the win8 tabs a sucess in a FREE MARKET, because COMPETITION benefits us all
An 11.6 inch tablet at same basic resolution as this tablet is going to look like crap. Seriously. These Windows 8 Tablets are too expensive for a tablet and too small for a laptop replacement.
Stuck in the middle. They won't sell.
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banderos101 said:
"better application support than any other tablet."
Wait till the product is out for a while before making a claim like that. It reallly puts me off considering a win8 tablet when people proclaim something is this and that, when the damn things not even out yet...........
Saying that, as a current android user i wish the win8 tabs a sucess in a FREE MARKET, because COMPETITION benefits us all
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guess i should have been more specific since there will be 2 versions of the w8 tablet, but i was referring to the pro version from barry's post. it's already a fact that windows has more applications than any tablet (but not necessarily all tablet friendly) - possibly combined. sure i'll be giving up battery life, but that's what i'll have my ARM tablet for - who knows what OS that one will be.
one thing i'm hoping for on windows rt is the ability to tie multiple devices to one account but only allow certain devices to actualy access the mail and personal settings of the main account, like IOS does. i don't like tying all my android devices share with my daughter to my gmail account and i don't want to make two account and have to buy an app twice to share it with her (amazon is a decent solution, but no for apps i've already purchased). i've got app blockers on her tablet now, but one day she may get smart enough to get around them.
madsquabbles said:
guess i should have been more specific since there will be 2 versions of the w8 tablet, but i was referring to the pro version from barry's post. it's already a fact that windows has more applications than any tablet (but not necessarily all tablet friendly) - possibly combined. sure i'll be giving up battery life, but that's what i'll have my ARM tablet for - who knows what OS that one will be.
one thing i'm hoping for on windows rt is the ability to tie multiple devices to one account but only allow certain devices to actualy access the mail and personal settings of the main account, like IOS does. i don't like tying all my android devices share with my daughter to my gmail account and i don't want to make two account and have to buy an app twice to share it with her (amazon is a decent solution, but no for apps i've already purchased). i've got app blockers on her tablet now, but one day she may get smart enough to get around them.
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You can put another account on her device and use apk extractor to share paid apps with her without the need to buy them twice, i do this allot with my brothers
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Hi,
With Windows 8 about to be publicly released (which I'm already using on my desktop PC and really like) I was interested to hear what people think about 'touch' on laptops (not tablets)?
I'm not really looking for criticisms of the idea - I could easily do that - instead I'm hoping to get a feel for how it might positively enhance the experience? It can be hard to see how a new feature, new device, new way of working will matter to you until you've had it a while - but later on you can wonder how you ever lived without it - and I wonder if that's going to be the same with touch on laptops.
It would be great to hear your ideas. I ask because I'm just about to buy a new laptop and I'm wondering whether I would regret it later if I didn't get one with a touch screen (despite not currently understanding why I would want/use that feature).
Thanks!
Ian
otherworld said:
Hi,
With Windows 8 about to be publicly released (which I'm already using on my desktop PC and really like) I was interested to hear what people think about 'touch' on laptops (not tablets)?
I'm not really looking for criticisms of the idea - I could easily do that - instead I'm hoping to get a feel for how it might positively enhance the experience? It can be hard to see how a new feature, new device, new way of working will matter to you until you've had it a while - but later on you can wonder how you ever lived without it - and I wonder if that's going to be the same with touch on laptops.
It would be great to hear your ideas. I ask because I'm just about to buy a new laptop and I'm wondering whether I would regret it later if I didn't get one with a touch screen (despite not currently understanding why I would want/use that feature).
Thanks!
Ian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using the laptop to do work and traditional stuff you wont miss much esp if you get a windows 8 multi touch gesture mouse to go with it. I think if you want to take advantage though of things like the cool touch based games them multi touch is a bonus - try playing fruit ninga on a laptop touch pad and you get the idea.
I personally love the way it works with mouse so I don't think you will regret it in any way. Though some uses are as I said multi touch gestures like zooming in/out is a main one but there is a load of others in there. Also i don't know about other people but a laptop mouse sucks and i don't like having to mind some ware to use a normal one if say im on a train, plain or taxi etc so being able to touch the screen is much faster and easier.
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...89ECFD45CA0654775864CDBAD2606AC7#.UIA8UsU0WSo
Lenovo has had this forever with thinkpad x tablet. It is a laptop with a touchscreen that can flip back on its keyboard and become a laptop. It also comes with a stylus and wacom digitizer on the screen for pressure sensitivity. These things work great on windows 7 and I expect them to be even better on windows 8.
Dell and HP are beginning to roll out their variants now that touch will be deeply integrated into the OS.
It's very interesting the idea of a stylus; thanks for mentioning that. That might be a significant reason to get one. I wonder what kind of accuracy it will have in that respect (i.e. will it just be the equivalent sensitivity as a finger touch, or enough accuracy to e.g. touch up a specific pixel of a photo). I can definitely see how that would enhance the graphics packages I use, and the idea of note taking & sketching ideas is an interesting one (e.g. in onenote).
Games is a good one too - rearranging e.g. cards/pieces/.. on screen is so much more natural to do with touch. It will be interesting to see if the popularity of touch will influence more game like interfaces on standard applications and web sites in any way, and drag & drop in any application can be awkward with a trackpad.
I wonder what the ergonomics will be like on a laptop with touch; on a tablet it's obviously very quick to say tap a hyperlink; but in a laptop setup (apart from if folded flat) I can't see it being particularly comfy to keep reaching out. As you said though; on a train (or just sat on the sofa) it might make quite a difference.
Anyway thanks for your posts! Very helpful.
otherworld said:
It's very interesting the idea of a stylus; thanks for mentioning that. That might be a significant reason to get one. I wonder what kind of accuracy it will have in that respect (i.e. will it just be the equivalent sensitivity as a finger touch, or enough accuracy to e.g. touch up a specific pixel of a photo). I can definitely see how that would enhance the graphics packages I use, and the idea of note taking & sketching ideas is an interesting one (e.g. in onenote).
Games is a good one too - rearranging e.g. cards/pieces/.. on screen is so much more natural to do with touch. It will be interesting to see if the popularity of touch will influence more game like interfaces on standard applications and web sites in any way, and drag & drop in any application can be awkward with a trackpad.
I wonder what the ergonomics will be like on a laptop with touch; on a tablet it's obviously very quick to say tap a hyperlink; but in a laptop setup (apart from if folded flat) I can't see it being particularly comfy to keep reaching out. As you said though; on a train (or just sat on the sofa) it might make quite a difference.
Anyway thanks for your posts! Very helpful.
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In my experience the stylus is extremely accurate. I have a professor with this laptop (or an older version) right now and she draws on powerpoint slides with great precision. I have also seen someone with one taking notes in OneNote (you know that useless Office program since 2007) effectively.
I just bought the HP Stream 7 and hardware wise it is a pretty great device, but software is a different story. Yes full Windows 8.1 might sound great at first, but it is on a 7" screen with touch controls making it very difficult to use when not hooked up to a mouse and keyboard. I was wondering if anyone as anyone been able to make Windows 8.1 more mobile friendly? Web browsing is terrible because it loads the desktop version of everything meaning no mobile support anywhere forcing you to try and tap on links that are extremely small. Maybe a modified user agent for IE11 could fix that? I'd even accept any sort of hacking on this thing, like maybe an Ubuntu OS with some kind of touch friendly front end. What have you guys done with your small 7 - 8" tablets to make them more usable when mobile?
I second this. Have mine comming in in a few days. This was exactly my concern. Anyone with experiences with Windows on small screens?
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I got a stream 8 and I basically purchased a stylus for it. I recommend the adonit jot pro. Kinda pricey (29.99), but is worth it considering g the headaches I got trying g to use with does 8.1 with my finger