Related
I like the tablet , but it has limited power next to a laptop or pc ,let me rephrase the power comment , it cant do what can be done on a pc ! I see it being using for many applications , however tablets sit bulky in the hand , as an embedded device for certain functions it will be a desirable device , like for schools or doctors, mechanics ,portable device functions , but it lacks in everything compared to the pc ! Im refferring to pc (macs are the same , I suppose desktops would be better) !
Dont get me wrong I like the Iconia , I just dont see it taking the place of the desktop as the crApple fan bois would like us all to believe , they couldnt come up with the the netbook , so they copied a tablet !
I almost agree with you. The iPad is a great example of a device that'll never handle true desktop productivity. That said, I just upgraded my phone to the Evo 3D and discovered it came with the capability to print to my WiFi printer from most apps that I would want/need to. I can print emails, many attachments, photos, contacts, calendars, web pages, etc.. I believe that system-wide printing will come standard in IceCreamSandwich. Android 3.1 and 2.3.3 already support keyboards and mice, and other input devices too. I'm WiFi scanning capability away from being able to use a modern tablet as a desktop replacement in my university teaching role. Some of the things a tablet can do well the old desktop couldn't do at all, so for me the tablet can be a more productive tool than my desktop was. One more generation will put quad-core processors in these tablets. That's 3 cores more than my last desktop had, and it served me fine. Android, unlike iOS, is moving close and closer to being a workhorse OS. I love it!
It really lacks the heat and noise of my gaming rig when i just want browse the web. Tablets are more in compitition with netbooks. Only fools would walk into a store thinking that this ten inch device would say rip bluerays and convert while playing rounds on tf2. Otherise cool story bro
Even the steve jobs said you will always need a truck to handle the workload and thats a anaolgy for desktop and such
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
No one who doesn't actually have an agenda would claim that tablets are going to replace desktop computers, but they sure do replace netbooks and laptops for many people. Often people buy netbooks and laptops because they want to be able to read their favorite websites, stay in touch with others via e-mail and just generally to have a way of reaching information on-the-go should the need arise, and a tablet literally shines in such situations.
My laptop replaced my desktop years ago. And as of a few weeks ago, my Dell Streak 7 has replaced my laptop. Replaced as in I sold my laptop. I am a writer, I do video blogging, internet security consulting, and I'm a minister. My tablet has replaced all of my media devices except for the tv, and that even gets replaced by my tablet if I am the only one watching. The only thing I need a pc for now it to flash a new ROM onto my tablet, and rip CDs to mp3 so they can be transfered to the tablet. And to back up my tablet storage in case of failure.
I know that most people will not be going to a tablet as their only computing device any time soon, but I can assure you, it is doable, and quite enjoyable. My only agenda is having my entire digital life in my pocket. And an android tablet does that perfectly.
Sent from my awesome HoneyStreak HD7
In my opinion, the tablet market right now is starting to evolve to replace laptops/netbooks. We are still in the early stages and I won't be surprised if a few years from now, netbooks and tablets will be marketed as a single device (Windows8 has the biggest potential for this IMHO). Want to use it casually in bed? Remove it from its dock, Want to be a power user? Dock it and have a complete kb-mouse-monitor package (akin to the transformer).
I myself use my Iconia more than my netbook already. I only open up my netbook when I need to write something or do photoshop - which is more often than not a handful of times a week. It's just plain more comfortable to watch/read stuff with a tablet especially in bed.
What would be really great is a dual core atom netbook with wifi (yes, I know that's standard), AND a good gps biult-in, two usb host ports and a usb mini slave (for connection to full PC).
I'd buy that for $5 - 700, 2G ram or more, 80 - 120G SSD..
WorkingOnWise said:
My laptop replaced my desktop years ago. And as of a few weeks ago, my Dell Streak 7 has replaced my laptop. Replaced as in I sold my laptop. I am a writer, I do video blogging, internet security consulting, and I'm a minister. My tablet has replaced all of my media devices except for the tv, and that even gets replaced by my tablet if I am the only one watching. The only thing I need a pc for now it to flash a new ROM onto my tablet, and rip CDs to mp3 so they can be transfered to the tablet. And to back up my tablet storage in case of failure.
I know that most people will not be going to a tablet as their only computing device any time soon, but I can assure you, it is doable, and quite enjoyable. My only agenda is having my entire digital life in my pocket. And an android tablet does that perfectly.
Sent from my awesome HoneyStreak HD7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are a minister and you are running a DELL?!?!?! REPENT!!!!
Interesting conversation.
At first my Nook Color and now my Iconia have replaced my personal laptop. i have a somewhat powerful work laptop and I am not a big gamer so if I need some heavy lifting done, which is rare, I can do it on my work laptop.
The Acer is much better than my laptop for reading, watching movies, and surfing the web and it is the perfect size for commuting.
WorkingOnWise;15209560My only agenda is having my entire digital life in my pocket. And an android tablet does that perfectly. :-)
[/QUOTE said:
Sir, you have very large pockets if you're keeping an Iconia in them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol! My son gets this for graduating boot camp in February, when I will get whatever the hotrod dual or quad core 7" android device is out. I like this tablet, but Dell made so many needless compromises with it, I don't see myself buying another Dell. Is that enouth repentance?
Sent from my awesome HoneyStreak HD7
still not quite there,
But I think with the power these devices will soon have. Tablets may be the next console device for gaming. Just look at the partnerships that have developed. Sony already has a phone that pretends to be a PSP. And they will soon have a tablet too. Couple years from now, I could see these tablets running console style games, maybe even a ps4 tablet that omits the stay at home console box. Dock and play, or undock and play on the go. Plus look at all the people trying to link ps3 contollers to run with their emulators. I know others have mentioned the rumors, just give it a bit of time.
As for PC replacement, I am already there. It does not replace my desktop rig for burning bluray. It DOES eliminate my laptop in every way. Web, basic games, email, video chat, can even use torrent services. The future just looks better, even if that means another brand tablet, but love iconia for right now.
For me, the Iconia is perfect as a mobile solution, since I am frequently on the train. Much more handy than a netbook or laptop for when you are actually on the move and you have lots of stuff with you, so every extra kilo is precious. Laptops are rather bulky for watching a movie on the go and even netbooks now feel quite bad in comparison (same screen size, double the weight, half the battery time).
On the other hand, I also have my gaming rig at home, where I can do my movie converting, store my music collection etc. Iconia (or the next generation of tablets) certainly can't replace all that for me. But I can easily see it chomping at the laptop share of the market.
sittin here at work... thinking... I gotta start that batch conversion when I get home... wait! I have splashtop... I can load my pc's desktop on my iconia and do my batch right now... then I can run netflix and watch something or maybe txt my wife to put the other dvd/blueray in the drive so I can start that rip from here...
although I haven't replaced my desktop at home... I certainly have eliminated the need to be there to operate it... I love my iconia!!!
Tablets aren't replacing desktops anytime soon for people on these forums.
But, think of this - what about the mom's, grandmoms and others who just want to check email and browse the web? Why would they NEED anything more than a tablet?
My wife uses a tablet almost exclusively now. Only when she needs to print something does she go to the desktop, and that's very rare (school forms, etc.) And if they can ever get printing built into Android it would go a long way towards doing away with need for a desktop for a lot of people.
At least half of my employees could easily replace their home PC with a 10" tablet and be better off for it.
Of course the people on these forums are more the desktop PC experts and techies and we will never be able to do away with our desktops.
For work, we're investigating replacing some employee laptops with Honeycomb tablets and a special app we are writing. It would provide better mobility for those specific job functions than a laptop ever could, and allow us to better control the devices, spend less on them, and ensure the data security better. Because most of our desktops are used for massive data entry, a tablet doesn't make sense there, but a tablet with a docking station, HDMI screen and keyboard might make sense in the future for some employees...
If only Google would put out a real tablet Docs app...
great conversation
I have been a avid computer user since the late 1980's and holding this a500 in my hands still amazes me after nearly a month owning it.
The only reason I find myself sitting at my IBM desktop machine is when I need to pull some files from a DVD/CD or need to print something, or have spare time for some gaming.
This thing has replaced 90%+ of what I use a desktop for - and just think - the tablet market has barely gotten started. Imagine what these will be like in ten years
On a side note; no chance 3.1 can use a USB based external dvd-rom drive, is there?
This is not a thread bashing the Xoom or Android. I love them both.
I have moved my company to Droid (1's) and Incredible, and fought the IPAD in the enterprise at every turn.
I have also worked hard to install Linux on every desktop I can, where ever I can.
My question is, where are we going?
Android is perfect for a small pocket device. Small screen, limited resources, touch, and hopefully extended battery life. Tweaking and Developing Android allows us to squeeze even more functionality out of our powerful pocket computers. Adroid makes our phones cool. It is the hackers switchblade.
However, with the tablet form factor, we are all attempting to take an embedded device, with a purposefully designed lean Linux installation, and patch it back to a full fledge desktop operating system. We are slowing undoing Android on Xoom and turning it into a Linux Desktop without a keyboard.
Some very skilled devs have placed Ubuntu on the Xoom. I was thrilled when I heard the news. My very next thought was... Wait. Full Chrome, Full Codec Support, full everything! Its all ready to use, in a small Xoom shape and size. However, Ubuntu has poorly designed touch interfaces for most apps, and most things require a keyboard. (or right click mouse)
So. My question is. Why not continue to develop Linux, any flavor, ( I like debs) and create great user interface, that runs on X, and a great GTK with big touch buttons, et, so that we can run already developed software?
Why are recreating the wheel? Isn't Android going to simply develop into a full Linux Distro fork, that diverts talent away from the whole?
….And Discuss....
Plain and simply.. Linux is not Android. Android is not Linux. One does this and the other does that. One is Google owned one is not. One is made for handheld devices while one is not. Comparing apples and bananas never works no matter what the situation may be.
Each has its own purposes.
I somewhat agree. I think its more like a comparison between Red Delicious Apples and Granny Smith. They are both apples.
Comparing a Windows 7 Phone and Android is Apples and Oranges because have a different underpinning.
Both run the Linux Kernel. Both run several GNU packages. It is true that they have different interface layers, and Android relies alot of Java (Although Linux (GNU) can and does run Java as well.
I guess that is my point. Most of what needs to be written to run on a Linux kernel (Like Android's) to make a great terminal device (Which really is what Android is) has already been written, and vetted, some software since the 1970's. Why rewrite it in Java, using the Android framework, making it incompatible with the larger Linux Ecosystem? Or, if Java is key to app portability between architectures, why change the java engine so that it isn't compatible with the Java we already run on our desktops?
Again, I'm thinking out loud, not argue, but because I think something is missing from the community plan? What if all of the time put into the different Phone ROMS on XDA (based on Android) was used to make a more compatible, and universal Linux for Tablets?
remote sessions
I use pocketcloud and splashtopHd all the time on my xoom, barely worth it on a phone form factor, but this way I have full desktop support with touch ui integrated and at the same time I have all the great things android offers over desktop systems as well if I'm off the grid.
From what I've read android is a base of Linux but from the point of programs and interaction its all google design. Which is why we can Ubuntu nativley but will have the issues the op mentioned for drivers an ui interface, but I imagine as touch becomes defacto we'll see drivers and ui 's designed with more touch orientation integrated...win8 already looks to be shapping up that way from the looks of it. So possibly we'll be able to run future versions of Linux distros on the xoom, so long as the specs still meet the requirements
I totally agree with your point of view, I hear ya. But, the idea of having Linux on the tablets rather than Android... isn't that a battle between the big companies as to what OS they want to support on their own devices? Motorola and HTC are two big companies and they choose to support Android on their devices all the way. I guess if there would be a company out there that would prefer Linux OS on their devices we could very well see this as an ultimate possibility. One never knows.
>But where are we going?
The only people who can answer that are Google. They've yet to articulate a comprehensive roadmap for Android. The only strategy thus far has been to throw out a freebie to vendors and let them adopt it as they will.
The problem is that what vendors want (differentiation through proprietary enhancements) isn't what the public want (uniform UI, cross-product interoperability). Add to that are gaping holes in basic functionality in Android, like peripheral support--printers, scanners, 3G modems, etc.
I suspect that Goog themselves don't really know. If they did, there wouldn't be overlapping efforts like the Chrome OS (which is apparently DOA for now). Rubin bud needs to figure it out soon.
Win8 beta in Sept will determine the extent of Windows' viability for the mobile space. From simple extrapolation of Win7's capabilities + touch GUI + ARM support, it's a relative safe bet that Win8 will have a big presence in tablets next year.
The picture for Android-on-tabs is more vague. ICS should clarify things a bit, one way or another.
e.mote said:
>But where are we going?
The only people who can answer that are Google. They've yet to articulate a comprehensive roadmap for Android. The only strategy thus far has been to throw out a freebie to vendors and let them adopt it as they will.
The problem is that what vendors want (differentiation through proprietary enhancements) isn't what the public want (uniform UI, cross-product interoperability). Add to that are gaping holes in basic functionality in Android, like peripheral support--printers, scanners, 3G modems, etc.
I suspect that Goog themselves don't really know. If they did, there wouldn't be overlapping efforts like the Chrome OS (which is apparently DOA for now). Rubin bud needs to figure it out soon.
Win8 beta in Sept will determine the extent of Windows' viability for the mobile space. From simple extrapolation of Win7's capabilities + touch GUI + ARM support, it's a relative safe bet that Win8 will have a big presence in tablets next year.
The picture for Android-on-tabs is more vague. ICS should clarify things a bit, one way or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ICE CREAM SANDWICH?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
I think it is not so much recreating the wheel so much as trimming down and adapting.
X with gnome/kde is not currently a good fit for a touch screen only device. Even if the window manager could be adapted to work well for touch screen only, interaction with most applications would still be problematic. Getting application developers to go in a common direction is hard enough as is.... and you want to ask all of them to rewrite the apps to work in a touch screen environment? Still if you want to try this route you could get a meego or work in KDE embedded. The effort (as Nokia discovered, and Open Moko before them) is non trivial however.
Android, and by extension Android applications, are designed to work with a touch screen interface from the beginning. It is less work to extend the structure to support larger screens than the adaptation X based applications would have to go through.
Android is not a general purpose computing platform though. It was originally written to work in a cell phone environment, with the attendant limitations and advantages. I think this core concept has not changed with the introduction of the tablet. We are still dealing with a connected device whose primary purpose is the consumption of information. What I mean by this is that android is not meant for creation (such as creation of MS office documents, programming, photoshop, etc...) but consumption (playing games, reading mail, browsing the web, reading MS office documents, etc...)
Where I think Android should be going for the near future is refining and improving the ability to consume information:
- Make web browsing more robust, including html5
- Improve video decoding with better codec and container support.
- Make it easier to read documents on the device.
- improve resolution independence at the API level.
- Improve round trips from desktop to cloud to device and back. Make the device used neutral to the information being consumed. e.g. bookmark and open tab syncing in the browser. better dropbox like functionality for availability of files that have been worked on.
Where I want to see it going in the long run can be seen in a nascent form with the Atrix and the Lenovo U1:
- Based upon available resources (keyboard, mouse, monitor) shift from a touch screen interface to a conventional desktop interface. (extend what the Atrix does)
- Make it easy to extend the functionality of the core device by connecting it to resources. (extending the idea behind the Asus Transformer)
- In a perfect world I would like to see a full desktop OS run when requested and be able to use external CPUs (think Lenovo U1). In essence I would like the device to be able to be a boot disk for the user, connect it do a desktop for raw power, connect it to a laptop base for on the go functionality, and use just the phone/tablet for ubiquitous computing. This dream is still a few years from being practical though.
- Make the android OS an installable and user upgradeable OS just as desktop OSes are now. This is even further out but I can see a future where mobile device hardware and OS are separate. This might never come to fruition though due to the way carriers control the phone experience.
And tangentially we could see the Android platform espouse device centric ideals as seen in Japan currently.
- Use the phone as a payment system.
- Augment magazines and stores with tags to feed the phone contextual information.
To be honest I have not given it much thought. I am interested to see where Google is going with the platform however.
youngproguru said:
So. My question is. Why not continue to develop Linux, any flavor, ( I like debs) and create great user interface, that runs on X, and a great GTK with big touch buttons, et, so that we can run already developed software?
Why are recreating the wheel? Isn't Android going to simply develop into a full Linux Distro fork, that diverts talent away from the whole?
….And Discuss....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The main differentiator between Linux or other free 'nix-likes these days, and Android, is that Android enforces, encourages, and _guarantees_ a standardized uniform development platform, a single UI standard, standardized set of software in the platform, and a standardized user experience.
Linux et al guarantees none of this.
If you want those specific freedoms Linux offers you, then it is there, by all means. The beauty of having open devices like the Xoom and other devices with open bootloaders is you are free to make your choice.
I have a feeling that three to six months from now the whole picture will come to bare. We will have the "cloud" and chrome PC, Android phones, Android tablets, TVs, Google+, Google music all wrapped into one. Google is renaming blogger to Google blogs, picassa into Google photo.
It is scary a little but it seems like it is all coming together. It is almost there, each boundary has bumps but me thinks Google is trying to make it seamless.
JanetPanic said:
I think it is not so much recreating the wheel so much as trimming down and adapting.
X with gnome/kde is not currently a good fit for a touch screen only device. Even if the window manager could be adapted to work well for touch screen only, interaction with most applications would still be problematic. Getting application developers to go in a common direction is hard enough as is.... and you want to ask all of them to rewrite the apps to work in a touch screen environment? Still if you want to try this route you could get a meego or work in KDE embedded. The effort (as Nokia discovered, and Open Moko before them) is non trivial however.
Android, and by extension Android applications, are designed to work with a touch screen interface from the beginning. It is less work to extend the structure to support larger screens than the adaptation X based applications would have to go through.
Android is not a general purpose computing platform though. It was originally written to work in a cell phone environment, with the attendant limitations and advantages. I think this core concept has not changed with the introduction of the tablet. We are still dealing with a connected device whose primary purpose is the consumption of information. What I mean by this is that android is not meant for creation (such as creation of MS office documents, programming, photoshop, etc...) but consumption (playing games, reading mail, browsing the web, reading MS office documents, etc...)
Where I think Android should be going for the near future is refining and improving the ability to consume information:
- Make web browsing more robust, including html5
- Improve video decoding with better codec and container support.
- Make it easier to read documents on the device.
- improve resolution independence at the API level.
- Improve round trips from desktop to cloud to device and back. Make the device used neutral to the information being consumed. e.g. bookmark and open tab syncing in the browser. better dropbox like functionality for availability of files that have been worked on.
Where I want to see it going in the long run can be seen in a nascent form with the Atrix and the Lenovo U1:
- Based upon available resources (keyboard, mouse, monitor) shift from a touch screen interface to a conventional desktop interface. (extend what the Atrix does)
- Make it easy to extend the functionality of the core device by connecting it to resources. (extending the idea behind the Asus Transformer)
- In a perfect world I would like to see a full desktop OS run when requested and be able to use external CPUs (think Lenovo U1). In essence I would like the device to be able to be a boot disk for the user, connect it do a desktop for raw power, connect it to a laptop base for on the go functionality, and use just the phone/tablet for ubiquitous computing. This dream is still a few years from being practical though.
- Make the android OS an installable and user upgradeable OS just as desktop OSes are now. This is even further out but I can see a future where mobile device hardware and OS are separate. This might never come to fruition though due to the way carriers control the phone experience.
And tangentially we could see the Android platform espouse device centric ideals as seen in Japan currently.
- Use the phone as a payment system.
- Augment magazines and stores with tags to feed the phone contextual information.
To be honest I have not given it much thought. I am interested to see where Google is going with the platform however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your vision for the future of android/tab computing is fantastic. I already have replaced my laptop for the type of on-the-road computing work I need to do...with my bt keyboard and mouse and the cloud, I am creating MS Word documents and printing when back in the office. It's a good start. I use my charging docks when I'm stationary so additional functionality from docking stations and connected peripherals would be welcome. I think the current size of the Xoom is optimal. It needs to stay small enough to haul around easily but big enough to be more than a toy or large phone.
It is already my favored way to consume information...I'm pretty happy with my browsing experience and have no real issues streaming music, video, reading news/books. I think that this will only get better.
>X with gnome/kde is not currently a good fit for a touch screen only device. Even if the window manager could be adapted to work well for touch screen only, interaction with most applications would still be problematic. Getting application developers to go in a common direction is hard enough as is.
It's the same with Win7. That Win8 will (reportedly) rectify this while Linux fiddles is the main weakness of open-source--getting everybody to agree on a direction. I expect that, as mobile computing diversifies, that Linux will, as before, follow Windows' lead.
>Android is not a general purpose computing platform though. It was originally written to work in a cell phone environment, with the attendant limitations and advantages. I think this core concept has not changed with the introduction of the tablet.
I agree with this.
>Where I think Android should be going for the near future is refining and improving the ability to consume information:
I disagree with this. Whereas the physical size of a smartphone is the main impediment, lack of an integral physical input device is the tablet's sole limitation in being a productivity device. This limitation is very surmountable.
On the demand side, looking at the app mix on the iPad should indicate that content creation on tablets have high demand. The clamor for Office-type apps is strong. The tablet may not yet be able to do heavy productivity, but it should be able to do light ones.
The impetus to productivity is, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the upcoming Win8. Ignoring its immense userbase for the moment, when a user has a choice between a tablet for consumption-only, and one that does both consumption and (light) creation, it's an easy choice. The smartphone killed the PDA/MP3 player/digicam/etc because it can do more than any one of these erstwhile devices.
More succinctly, Android doesn't have the luxury of a slow ramp.
>[various improvements for consumption]
I agree that these are probably what we'll see in ICS. They're incremental. I see them as insufficient in light of the upcoming competition.
>Where I want to see it going in the long run can be seen in a nascent form with the Atrix and the Lenovo U1:
This is where fragmentation rears its ugly head (as if it hasn't already). What you're referring to requires brand interoperability, which vendors are loath to do without a strong hand from the OS supplier. Google have yet to be that strong hand. To wit, both of the above examples only work within the respective vendor's product lines, and both are marketplace failures.
Fragmentation is the other issue Android needs to deal with. Other than the 18-month upgrade "pledge," I don't see much inclination from Goog to deal with this.
>- In a perfect world I would like to see a full desktop OS run when requested and be able to use external CPUs (think Lenovo U1).
>- Make the android OS an installable and user upgradeable OS just as desktop OSes are now.
Both of these are realizable with Win7 (on tablets) now, and I expect them to extend to Win8. The ideal desktop-tablet synergy I think will require better short-range connectivity, probably some flavor of UWB in the pipe.
Microsoft just released a detailed information on Windows For Arm. There will be touch friendly version of Office for Windows.
IMO, I think a windows tablet would be perfect for my needs. All the tablets our right now provide no productivity. With windows phone apps as well as full windows 8 on the tablet, it might just replace my laptop.
Source
I think it will be great...
Imagine a tablet with great battery life, full microsoft office and exchange functionality - and when you dock it (like Asus Transformer Prime) it becomes a full laptop running in "normal" desktop mode with even greater battery life. Great for business users.
Now imagine a tablet with integrated social network functionality, zune pass, spotify, youtube, and Xbox Live games... Great for home/casual users.
Seems like Windows 8 with its desktop/laptop/tablet/phone vertical integration will be the one OS we have been waiting for.
Although people are concerned with lack of legacy apps and x86 compatibility, i think that it's good people at Microsoft finally gathered enough courage to dump a lot of legacy stuff and make a clean start.
Although older apps won't be ported, newer apps made with Microsoft dev tools will be easily compiled for both x86 and ARM.
For most users having Windows&Office will be enough for most things - browsing, multimedia, casual games and I'm sure there will be lots of apps in Marketplace to satisfy hardcore users soon enough
P.S. I'm not a MS fanboy... I own SGS running ICS and iPad
would be cool if i could develop android apps on my tablet and dual boot windows and android
Win8 on cotton candy-like HW: Plug it to your tv's usb port and use a wireless keyboard+touchpad to use it.
Is win8 for arm ready to play this game?
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
needspractice said:
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm like you and was stuck and didn't know what to do. After researching online it seems Haswell tablets wont be out until the end of this year, but I needed a tablet now. I went with the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. It's faster than my SurfaceRT was and I absolutely love the digitizer. I use the pen mainly as a mouse when in the full desktop. It makes a huge difference having the pen to use as a mouse. If they refresh the Thinkpad2, I plan to sell my current one to acquire the haswell version. You always have that choice if you don't mind ebay/craigslist.
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
me too.
customise 128GB SSD.
on dual booting 7 and 8:good:
too use separated.
I would definitely consider an iPad for educational use. They're excellent for note taking and reading textbooks. No, I'm not kidding.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
But he wants Win 8.
veeman said:
I would definitely consider an iPad for educational use. They're excellent for note taking and reading textbooks. No, I'm not kidding.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, let's pay more than a Win8 tablet to get a fourth of the usability (and I'm being generous with the iPad's usefulness)
I am in the same boat. I want a windows 8 tablet sooooooo much. I want to trade my laptop which weighs 7lbs for a nice, light tablet and I want to build a cheap pc for home gaming. However I don't want the Atoms. Not enough performance. And I wouldn't mind paying 600-700 bucks for an i3/i5 tablet right now, but I would hate myself if the Haswells came out with almost double the battery life and more performance for the same price.
So I've decided to be patient and work through this school year using my laptop. All the while saving up for my upgrade. Then at the end of next summer the Haswells should be on sale or cheaper. Or if they weren't as much of an improvement as we expected I can get the current tablets for dirt cheap. Next summer the surface pro will probably be around $500 at some places.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Censura_Umbra said:
Yeah, let's pay more than a Win8 tablet to get a fourth of the usability (and I'm being generous with the iPad's usefulness)
I am in the same boat. I want a windows 8 tablet sooooooo much. I want to trade my laptop which weighs 7lbs for a nice, light tablet and I want to build a cheap pc for home gaming. However I don't want the Atoms. Not enough performance. And I wouldn't mind paying 600-700 bucks for an i3/i5 tablet right now, but I would hate myself if the Haswells came out with almost double the battery life and more performance for the same price.
So I've decided to be patient and work through this school year using my laptop. All the while saving up for my upgrade. Then at the end of next summer the Haswells should be on sale or cheaper. Or if they weren't as much of an improvement as we expected I can get the current tablets for dirt cheap. Next summer the surface pro will probably be around $500 at some places.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
veeman said:
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shows how much attention you've been paying.
Educational use, the RT has a full blown office suite, printing and usb storage, all useful and unavailable on an iPad. Well, office suites there are some but none even nearly match Microsoft office. Printing on RT is no different from a normal PC, no specialised printers required (my old school would have had to spend £40000 on printers if they were to replace with an iPad compatible model, the RT tablet a classmate bought in worked fine already). Usb storage, hah, you don't even get a usable file system let alone mass storage.
But we aren't using RT. We're talking windows 8, you know, that OS on your laptop or desktop. Intel atom, ivy bridge and haswell tablets as discussed here are all full blown x86 tablets and will run your full PC software which I would love to see you do on your iPad. That and many have active digitiser pens which are even better for nite taking than a capacitive screen which has no way to palm block (and I cannot contort my hand in such a way to write with a stylus on a capacitive screen without wearing gloves as a palm blocker).
So, cheaper and more useful for productivity which seems to be what was desired.
veeman said:
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha more useful apps than every single "app" I use on my PC everyday? Like gimp and Photoshop? Sony Vegas? Real games like DmC and Call of Duty? Wow. What are you even doing in this part of the forum?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Censura_Umbra said:
Hahahaha more useful apps than every single "app" I use on my PC everyday? Like gimp and Photoshop? Sony Vegas? Real games like DmC and Call of Duty? Wow. What are you even doing in this part of the forum?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You aren't going to be able to run any of those apps on Windows RT tablet. And if you do go up to the x86 windows 8 tablet, unless you're willing to spend $1000+, you won't get a tablet that runs Photoshop or Call of Duty well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------
SixSixSevenSeven said:
shows how much attention you've been paying.
Educational use, the RT has a full blown office suite, printing and usb storage, all useful and unavailable on an iPad. Well, office suites there are some but none even nearly match Microsoft office. Printing on RT is no different from a normal PC, no specialised printers required (my old school would have had to spend £40000 on printers if they were to replace with an iPad compatible model, the RT tablet a classmate bought in worked fine already). Usb storage, hah, you don't even get a usable file system let alone mass storage.
But we aren't using RT. We're talking windows 8, you know, that OS on your laptop or desktop. Intel atom, ivy bridge and haswell tablets as discussed here are all full blown x86 tablets and will run your full PC software which I would love to see you do on your iPad. That and many have active digitiser pens which are even better for nite taking than a capacitive screen which has no way to palm block (and I cannot contort my hand in such a way to write with a stylus on a capacitive screen without wearing gloves as a palm blocker).
So, cheaper and more useful for productivity which seems to be what was desired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Apple has a very good Office Suite for iPads
2. Most universities will have printers that are compatible with wireless printing.
3. You seem to be misinformed as you can connect USB mass storage devices to iPads. (Though it does require jailbreak)
4. You said it's cheaper but for a tablet to have all the features you listed, the price point is close to $1000 or more.
5. Many medical fields write their software specifically for iPads. I know the hospital my mom works at does.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
veeman said:
You aren't going to be able to run any of those apps on Windows RT tablet. And if you do go up to the x86 windows 8 tablet, unless you're willing to spend $1000+, you won't get a tablet that runs Photoshop or Call of Duty well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------
1. Apple has a very good Office Suite for iPads
2. Most universities will have printers that are compatible with wireless printing.
3. You seem to be misinformed as you can connect USB mass storage devices to iPads. (Though it does require jailbreak)
4. You said it's cheaper but for a tablet to have all the features you listed, the price point is close to $1000 or more.
5. Many medical fields write their software specifically for iPads. I know the hospital my mom works at does.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did I say university anywhere? I'm not there until september. And besides, wireless printing does not mean an iPad will print to it, has to support some stupid apple protocol which although many do, most don't. And besides, in my old school the printing was not inherently wireless. The entire school was covered with a local network (a very large network which is also a rather convenient example of mixed topology within a network for computer science lessons), all printers were normal network printers. If you found a wireless access point then any windows device had no problem printing, if you had an ethernet connection then you could print fine from any normal computer too, a few of the printers in the school were even recognised by some android devices (although that was hit and miss), windows RT was able to print to them fine, iPads insisted that there was no printer present, even for the wireless one over in A11. There were only 2 iPad compatible printers in the building, 1 in the head masters office and one in my computer science room which my tutor bought himself.
The only office suites for iPads (pages is probably best and I presume the one you mean) are all far inferior to MS Office in terms of available functionality. Credit where credit is due, pages does work rather nicely as a basic office suite but leaves alot to be desired for things like .DOC support etc. Openoffice was able to open my 130 page coursework fine, MS Office was fine, Pages loaded a few pages, then gave up. The demo surface RT in john lewis, loaded it into MS office fine, no lag, nothing broken. Then on top of that, all RT tablets have office pre installed already, iPad its a seperate purchase. Same for windows 8 admittedly, but at least on windows 8 there are incredibly good free alternatives which are all fully fledged yet run fine on the atom processors of the CHEAPER tablets.
USB mass storage even on jailbroken iPads is buggy, its a native feature in Windows (for storage one can assume RT and 8 to be the same thing, as they do use the same feature set on this front). Windows supports more file systems, try using an NTFS drive on your iPad, or even on OSX for that matter, OSX has read only support, iPad apparently is hit and miss for that. You have to jailbreak which most users appear incompetent enough to not be able to do. Windows you get support for various forms of network storage too. Windows 8 you get FTP etc, with jailbreaks that is available on RT although not everyone wants to jailbreak (although those that need FTP are probably capable of jailbreaking). You get a normal file system presented on desktop, with apps in Start too, a proper file system, excellent, even android has that.
You will find that most establishments (including medical and educational, I know people from both backgrounds) who are migrating to iPads from existing windows solutions already have software for windows devices. Well, newsflash, a full windows 8 tablet will run these systems no porting required. But this is a hugely irrelevant point as we are not discussing the medical profession. In most cases these businesses are having to write their new shiny iPad apps from scratch, well if they are writing new software anyway they can just as easily write it for android or windows Start, so that further nullifies your point.
And no, a Asus vivotab smart costs less than an iPad. And does what needs to be done. Photoshop, devil may cry and call of duty were not on the criteria list, he said note taking and that he specifically is not gaming. Another newsflash, photoshop actually runs on the atom surprisingly well, sure your not going to be editing 500 megapixel images and applying 42 filters to it and having them done in 1 second, but quickly touching up the contrast on a 5mp phone photo is well within its abilities, more than that is but thats another null point as thats not a criteria so it doesnt matter.
I understand you want to defend your over-priced purchase but if your going to slate a windows tablet, use actual or relevant facts.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Did I say university anywhere? I'm not there until september. And besides, wireless printing does not mean an iPad will print to it, has to support some stupid apple protocol which although many do, most don't. And besides, in my old school the printing was not inherently wireless. The entire school was covered with a local network (a very large network which is also a rather convenient example of mixed topology within a network for computer science lessons), all printers were normal network printers. If you found a wireless access point then any windows device had no problem printing, if you had an ethernet connection then you could print fine from any normal computer too, a few of the printers in the school were even recognised by some android devices (although that was hit and miss), windows RT was able to print to them fine, iPads insisted that there was no printer present, even for the wireless one over in A11. There were only 2 iPad compatible printers in the building, 1 in the head masters office and one in my computer science room which my tutor bought himself.
The only office suites for iPads (pages is probably best and I presume the one you mean) are all far inferior to MS Office in terms of available functionality. Credit where credit is due, pages does work rather nicely as a basic office suite but leaves alot to be desired for things like .DOC support etc. Openoffice was able to open my 130 page coursework fine, MS Office was fine, Pages loaded a few pages, then gave up. The demo surface RT in john lewis, loaded it into MS office fine, no lag, nothing broken. Then on top of that, all RT tablets have office pre installed already, iPad its a seperate purchase. Same for windows 8 admittedly, but at least on windows 8 there are incredibly good free alternatives which are all fully fledged yet run fine on the atom processors of the CHEAPER tablets.
USB mass storage even on jailbroken iPads is buggy, its a native feature in Windows (for storage one can assume RT and 8 to be the same thing, as they do use the same feature set on this front). Windows supports more file systems, try using an NTFS drive on your iPad, or even on OSX for that matter, OSX has read only support, iPad apparently is hit and miss for that. You have to jailbreak which most users appear incompetent enough to not be able to do. Windows you get support for various forms of network storage too. Windows 8 you get FTP etc, with jailbreaks that is available on RT although not everyone wants to jailbreak (although those that need FTP are probably capable of jailbreaking). You get a normal file system presented on desktop, with apps in Start too, a proper file system, excellent, even android has that.
You will find that most establishments (including medical and educational, I know people from both backgrounds) who are migrating to iPads from existing windows solutions already have software for windows devices. Well, newsflash, a full windows 8 tablet will run these systems no porting required. But this is a hugely irrelevant point as we are not discussing the medical profession. In most cases these businesses are having to write their new shiny iPad apps from scratch, well if they are writing new software anyway they can just as easily write it for android or windows Start, so that further nullifies your point.
And no, a Asus vivotab smart costs less than an iPad. And does what needs to be done. Photoshop, devil may cry and call of duty were not on the criteria list, he said note taking and that he specifically is not gaming. Another newsflash, photoshop actually runs on the atom surprisingly well, sure your not going to be editing 500 megapixel images and applying 42 filters to it and having them done in 1 second, but quickly touching up the contrast on a 5mp phone photo is well within its abilities, more than that is but thats another null point as thats not a criteria so it doesnt matter.
I understand you want to defend your over-priced purchase but if your going to slate a windows tablet, use actual or relevant facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually don't have an iPad. My mom, however does have an iPad that was given to her by her work.
The Asus vivopad does not have a digitizer (which you were saying is a big plus on Win8 tabs) And according to a review I just read, it lags once a few apps are open so I doubt a resource hungry application like Photoshop will even run on it. I believe the comment about gaming and Photoshop were in response to someone else.
But the problem is that the medical companies aren't moving to Android because of security issues, build quality, and reliability.
USB mass storage works fine on the iPad. My mom uses it to type her papers. (A lot of which are well over 130 pages) Also I was not talking about you when I mentioned university. I assumed that the person I originally asked to consider an iPad was moving on to higher education. There are printing apps that allow you to print to almost every printer as well as accessories for USB only printers.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
So going back to the original question and ignoring iPads...
I would say that you should wait for Haswell. It's literally right around the corner and you will get much better performance than Atom currently offers with the same, if not better, battery life. Also keep in mind that Intel just announced that Atom will be released with the newest architecture AFTER Haswell, meaning that the current generation is already very obsolete.
needspractice said:
I was wondering if anyone knew of the latest or best phone that has the greatest ROM rooting following at the moment greater than the Galaxy Nexus?
I have a Galaxy Nexus right now and its great but I am just bored with it. I would like to upgrade. The only problem is that I use [GNEX TOOLKIT V11.1.0] Drivers, Backup, Unlock, Root, Recovery, Flash + MORE [SPRINT] which is the best tool around.
I was wondering if there are tools like this or better for other newer phones that I may upgrade to or should I just stay with my Nexus for while?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering: WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ASKING IN THIS THREAD.
Alright, i want to make this flat out, i am at the middle of almost everything when considering picking up an tablet.
Right now, i have already owned a massive computing in a form of a laptop (i7 3610QM + GTX 675M + 16GB RAM) and i do all the heavy stuffs on it (Photoshop, Vegas rendering ... blah).
But with the growing of the tablet market, i find myself a little bit out of place and really considering of picking up a tablet myself, a Windows Tablet ( i don't like anything that related to iOS and find Android to be unsecured) . Just because i think the tablet might come very handy in some situation that you can't always bring out the 17-inch laptop like what i have. But the thing is, i am stuck between choosing the nVIDIA Tegra 3 Windows RT tablet with the Intel Atom Clovertrail series with x86 Windows 8. Sure, Microsoft has Surface Pro and i love that thing, but i don't necessarily need the power of the i5 in such a small tablet like that, because i have already had my i7 do all the heavy work.
The thing is, with all the review that i have read so far, 10/10 of them said that the Atom is seriously underpowered and will cause "not-pleasant" Windows Experience, but in this case, they are running the x86 version of Windows 8, that mean all the Legacy Programs will work. While the Tegra 3 (Surface RT) has been claimed to give a smooth experience with Windows RT, but then again, sometime you will feel out of place because you can't run any x86-based App.
So my question is , what is your suggestion? I am leaning a little bit over to the Atom x86 side, just because it can run the Legacy apps, but the Windows RT won't really bother me to the point that i can't handle it. I would love to hear anybody here that are using the RT version, and also the x86 version of Windows 8 but with the Atom Chip.
I use the Surface RT (Tegra 3 ARM chip), but I make heavy use of the hacks available to unlock third-party desktop software and have compiled several such desktop apps myself. I also sometimes use the x86 compability layer that mamaich (on this forum) has hacked together; it's far from fast but suffices to run some software that I was unable to port.
I make very, very little of Windows Store apps except for a handful of games. With a genuinely full web browser available (including Flash and ad blocking), and the Touch Cover trackpad, I find myself using the browser probably more than all non-game apps, including Mail and Skype (the only two I use much at all) combined. I do use Office on the tablet, however (again, in desktop mode).
GoodDayToDie said:
I use the Surface RT (Tegra 3 ARM chip), but I make heavy use of the hacks available to unlock third-party desktop software and have compiled several such desktop apps myself. I also sometimes use the x86 compability layer that mamaich (on this forum) has hacked together; it's far from fast but suffices to run some software that I was unable to port.
I make very, very little of Windows Store apps except for a handful of games. With a genuinely full web browser available (including Flash and ad blocking), and the Touch Cover trackpad, I find myself using the browser probably more than all non-game apps, including Mail and Skype (the only two I use much at all) combined. I do use Office on the tablet, however (again, in desktop mode).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So there are actually a way to run Legacy App on the RT with an extra layer of Virtualization? I mean, most of the time i can just use the laptop, so i don't require the tablet to be able to run 100% what i want to run with Windows 8, but some x86 app like Foobar2000, i would like to see it run because i also have a lot of music in FLAC and others type that XBOX Music App doesn't play.
And are there any news on the VLC for RT? Heard that they have been developing that, would be nice if they can play MKV files.
It's an emulation (well, technically dynamic recompilation) layer, not virtualization in the usual sense. The performance hit is massive - I certainly would not recommend trying to run a software media decoder through it - but it doesn't require running a whole additional OS (the way virtualization usually does). My point was basically that RT works for me because I ignore at least 50% of its intended use cases and add a bunch of new ones - something that a normal user would not do. If I were limited just to what's in the store, I would feel that the RT is a waste of money, but that's because I don't like the way the store apps work and have yet to discover one that was A) worth using and B) couldn't be done better using a desktop app.
The x86 emulator is very slow. 0.1ghz as an incredibly rough guess that's not entirely accurate but gives a vague idea of performance. The original Age of empires plays ok as do a few other old applications but chances are most things you run through the emulator won't actually run.
There is a jailbreak for windows RT that allows installation of non store applications, but these applications need specifically porting to windows RT. The advantage of the ported applications is that they aren't being emulated, they are run natively utilising the full power of the tablet. However few applications have been ported so far but the situation is improving.
If you need desktop apps then you are best off with the atom tablets. They aren't as slow as the media make out, they just aren't fast either. The chips in current tablets are a bit more powerful than those in netbooks and are at a higher clock speed but they still won't come anywhere near your other machine. I do know a few people that happily use minecraft and visual studio on atom netbooks.
i've got both the 700t and 500t but find myself using the 500t far more. mainly it's used for media consumption and artwork. i use sketchbook pro, sai, and photoshop 12 (cs5) with no real problems. sure it's not as fast as the 700t, but i can keep on going for 12+ hours on the atom where the i5 dies after 5.5 hrs (faster when watching a movie). i generally keep my screen at 0% brightness since i'm indoors and the battery life still sucks on the 700t. if i have to remain tethered to an outlet i'd much rather be using something more powerful.
i have no regrets about getting the atom, but the i5... i should have sent that back and bought a gaming laptop. i'm not saying that the 700t is a bad tablet, it's pretty dang good, but the way i use my tablets battery life is more important. i thought i could squeeze 6-7 hours out of the 700t since i keep the screen dim.