Database Users

Ipad 2 pwned by my Transformer at work.

So my company bought Ipad 2's to integrate with our business. I suggested we get android tablets because they work better. So end result they didn't listen and bought them anyway. We have smart tags all over our showroom that play videos about our products. They wanted to use the Ipad to let the customers walk around and use the tags to watch the videos. So yesterday one of the managers tries to use it and I notice he looks frustrated. So I pull out my Transformer walk over there and scan the tab and the video plays smooth as butter. He looks at me and says WTF. I said oh Steve Jobs doesn't believe in flash. Hmm those ipads are great huh and walked away. PWNED!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA App

Nice!
My Transformer and my DHD pwn iPads and iPhones almost on a daily basis at my workplace.

I don't see why business would pick an iOS tablet over Android. iOs is so restrictive on what you can do and prevents you from being productive in the process.

RRtexasranger said:
I don't see why business would pick an iOS tablet over Android. iOs is so restrictive on what you can do and prevents you from being productive in the process.
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Have you ever worked in IT in a business? Some manager with AP sign off ability makes snap decisions on hardware/software, expects IT to support it and then often it just ends up in a storeroom somewhere until its broken, sold or "lost." Its never touched again because the original idea was abandoned or IT eventually applied what was really needed.
Not that I have any personal experience or anything....

ryan stewart said:
Have you ever worked in IT in a business? Some manager with AP sign off ability makes snap decisions on hardware/software, expects IT to support it and then often it just ends up in a storeroom somewhere until its broken, sold or "lost." Its never touched again because the original idea was abandoned or IT eventually applied what was really needed.
Not that I have any personal experience or anything....
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Ya my boss has a ipad as well and really liked this thing when I took it into work
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

RRtexasranger said:
I don't see why business would pick an iOS tablet over Android. iOs is so restrictive on what you can do and prevents you from being productive in the process.
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That is exactly why a business would pick iOS. Businesss' favorite devices are BlackBerries, not because they have the most powerful processor, best games, and super-quick facebook access, but because they can be remotely wiped/locked, every setting (from bluetooth to language) can be set via group policy, and everything going into/out of the phone (phone calls, texts, Internet access) can be monitored. And it has been that way for a long time.
When you are buying devices for your company, you want that control. iOS are probably second best in that aspect (and do pretty well with the right software loaded like MobileIron). Android is lacking. It wasn't until the last year (I think) that android officially supported "device administrators" and the ability to enforce pin usage and/or remote wipe. It's getting better, but before Android devices are allowed to access company file shares, Exchange servers, etc., they are going to have to improve significantly.
As a personal choice, I would take a Transformer over an iPad any day. If I was buying for my small business of 2-8 employees, it might be a toss up. If I was buying more than 10 devices though or if my business touched anything with PII or government-regulated data, I wouldn't touch Android.

rtadams89 said:
That is exactly why a business would pick iOS. Businesss' favorite devices are BlackBerries, not because they have the most powerful processor, best games, and super-quick facebook access, but because they can be remotely wiped/locked, every setting (from bluetooth to language) can be set via group policy, and everything going into/out of the phone (phone calls, texts, Internet access) can be monitored. And it has been that way for a long time.
When you are buying devices for your company, you want that control. iOS are probably second best in that aspect (and do pretty well with the right software loaded like MobileIron). Android is lacking. It wasn't until the last year (I think) that android officially supported "device administrators" and the ability to enforce pin usage and/or remote wipe. It's getting better, but before Android devices are allowed to access company file shares, Exchange servers, etc., they are going to have to improve significantly.
As a personal choice, I would take a Transformer over an iPad any day. If I was buying for my small business of 2-8 employees, it might be a toss up. If I was buying more than 10 devices though or if my business touched anything with PII or government-regulated data, I wouldn't touch Android.
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Neither Android nor iOS are designed to fit well with existing Microsoft-based infrastructure, and that's precisely the point. If you migrate over to Google Apps, there's no longer any need to purchase several server clusters for the purpose of providing basic email, calendar, and productivity applications to your user base. Just upgrade your pipe with your ISP to handle the increased bandwidth required for cloud services, and then you can toss out a large portion of your local infrastructure, saving massive amounts of money on energy, upkeep, and licensing costs. Apple is in the process of offering the same with the iCloud suite.
The older IT pros typically think it's an incredibly stupid idea to just throw out all that hard work that went into designing and implementing a Microsoft-based business infrastructure, instead focusing on getting all the new technology to play nice with Exchange and Office. But you have to understand that there's a reason why they don't play nice out of the box, and that reason is money, and, to a lesser extent, competition. Where's the profit in it for Microsoft if they make an Android app that makes Exchange integration flawless, when they could wait a year and force feed you Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 with complete support built in? It doesn't make any business sense to run two or more competing operating systems, and therefore you're never going to get seamless integration in such environments.
If you're a business that runs mainly on Microsoft services, then you should only buy Microsoft products in order to assure easy migration and interoperability. If you instead see more usability value in upgrading your client machines to Google or Apple devices, then you should be looking to migrate your infrastructure over as well.

I also bought a Transformer over the advice of many 'experts' to get an iPAd.
Android rules.

I have both an iPad 1 and now a Transformer. While I haven't touched my iPad since I got the Transformer, there ARE a few things I miss about the iPad:
1. Software - Sorry, but right now, even when an app does exist for both iOS and Android, the iOS version is way better. It looks better and it runs better (especially games). For exampe, the LogMeIn app in Android is just horrible, which the iOS version is simply awesome. Pinball HD runs better on my iPad 1, etc.... And that's with half the CPU power!
2. Build quality - I think my iPad 1 is almost indestructible. My Transformer - not so much...
3. Screen - while the screen in the transformer is nice (2nd best I've seen), the iPad display is better.
Of courese, Android is catching up on #1... A little more time should fix this one.
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For #2, hey - strong is nice, but I'm not really that "hard" on my tablets, so this one is not a big deal (for me).
And finally for #3 - Again, the screens in Android tablets are getting better and better. Hopefully, they'll be able to match the iPad screen someday, because I don't see myself going back to iOS - I love the flexibility that Android provides me. Don't get me wrong - Android has it's own shortcomings, but I think it''ll always be more open and more powerful than iOS.
Just my 2 cents...

jtrosky said:
I have both an iPad 1 and now a Transformer. While I haven't touched my iPad since I got the Transformer, there ARE a few things I miss about the iPad:
1. Software - Sorry, but right now, even when an app does exist for both iOS and Android, the iOS version is way better. It looks better and it runs better (especially games). For exampe, the LogMeIn app in Android is just horrible, which the iOS version is simply awesome. Pinball HD runs better on my iPad 1, etc.... And that's with half the CPU power!
2. Build quality - I think my iPad 1 is almost indestructible. My Transformer - not so much...
3. Screen - while the screen in the transformer is nice (2nd best I've seen), the iPad display is better.
Of courese, Android is catching up on #1... A little more time should fix this one.
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For #2, hey - strong is nice, but I'm not really that "hard" on my tablets, so this one is not a big deal (for me).
And finally for #3 - Again, the screens in Android tablets are getting better and better. Hopefully, they'll be able to match the iPad screen someday, because I don't see myself going back to iOS - I love the flexibility that Android provides me. Don't get me wrong - Android has it's own shortcomings, but I think it''ll always be more open and more powerful than iOS.
Just my 2 cents...
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what exactly about the ipad's screen is better? the odd aspect ratio, the lower resolution?
i find the ips panel in the TF to be far nicer than the ips panel from my old ipad.

I can't pinpoint what it is about the screen - I think it's just that the colors aren't as vibrant or as uniform as they are on the iPad (in my opinion, of course). Like I said, it's a nice screen, but I still think the iPads have better screens.
Of course, the iPad cost a lot more too...

jtrosky said:
I can't pinpoint what it is about the screen - I think it's just that the colors aren't as vibrant or as uniform as they are on the iPad (in my opinion, of course). Like I said, it's a nice screen, but I still think the iPads have better screens.
Of course, the iPad cost a lot more too...
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Perhaps it's your rose tinted Apple specs....
Seriously, I know 3 people at work with ipad2s and they all sold them and bought Transformers after using mine.... That's 3 people that might actually spend 10 minutes before a big purchase investigating alternatives, rather than just buying what they know and what's got the biggest marketing budget...

earlyberd said:
Neither Android nor iOS are designed to fit well with existing Microsoft-based infrastructure, and that's precisely the point. If you migrate over to Google Apps, there's no longer any need to purchase several server clusters for the purpose of providing basic email, calendar, and productivity applications to your user base. Just upgrade your pipe with your ISP to handle the increased bandwidth required for cloud services, and then you can toss out a large portion of your local infrastructure, saving massive amounts of money on energy, upkeep, and licensing costs. Apple is in the process of offering the same with the iCloud suite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android and iOS, work okay in Microsoft infrastructures as well as Lotus based infrastructures, but it does take some work and they could be smoother certainly.
The older IT pros typically think it's an incredibly stupid idea to just throw out all that hard work that went into designing and implementing a Microsoft-based business infrastructure, instead focusing on getting all the new technology to play nice with Exchange and Office. But you have to understand that there's a reason why they don't play nice out of the box, and that reason is money, and, to a lesser extent, competition. Where's the profit in it for Microsoft if they make an Android app that makes Exchange integration flawless, when they could wait a year and force feed you Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 with complete support built in? It doesn't make any business sense to run two or more competing operating systems, and therefore you're never going to get seamless integration in such environments.
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While I understand your reasoning at a certain level, Microsoft is very careful here, they were found to be a monopoly and forced to provide APIs for seemless integration at the same level that they use. Microsoft can not hide APIs anymore without some serious scrutiny from the EU and even the US. And honestly, Microsoft doesn't make much on the client side, each client is only gaining them a few dollars, on the servers side, each license is netting them far more money. Making Android seamless to their server makes them money, ignoring Android makes them nothing.
If you're a business that runs mainly on Microsoft services, then you should only buy Microsoft products in order to assure easy migration and interoperability. If you instead see more usability value in upgrading your client machines to Google or Apple devices, then you should be looking to migrate your infrastructure over as well.
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I don't think this will happen for most companies. Large companies do not trust Google to host their emails, and with good reason. There is no assurance that when I delete an email it really goes away on Google. If Google has the feds show up asking for an email and they have it, they will provide it and you may never know about it. Try doing that to a company mail server. Large companies are risk adverse, controlling their space allows them to protect themselves. Now small/mid size companies do see the cloud for their email and other things as a good deal, they don't have to man up data centers and keep the lights on and AC running in them. Leave that to the cloud and just use it.
By the way Google isn't the only game in town either. There are other options for business hosting in the cloud that are also available. What would really help is a normalization of a sync technology that would allow for easy plug-ability into different systems while providing a seamless integration at the glass.

adiliyo said:
what exactly about the ipad's screen is better? the odd aspect ratio, the lower resolution?
i find the ips panel in the TF to be far nicer than the ips panel from my old ipad.
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jtrosky said:
I can't pinpoint what it is about the screen - I think it's just that the colors aren't as vibrant or as uniform as they are on the iPad (in my opinion, of course). Like I said, it's a nice screen, but I still think the iPads have better screens.
Of course, the iPad cost a lot more too...
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Im pretty sure its been confirmed that the TFs screen operates at a lower bit depth than the ipad. Being said correct application of software can mostly normalize this, unfortunately the gallery software doesnt, meaning pictures will just plain look better on the ipad because the color ranges that arent covered will have more "noise" in them. Dont know if 3rd party gallery softwares have resolved this.

CrazyPeter said:
Perhaps it's your rose tinted Apple specs....
Seriously, I know 3 people at work with ipad2s and they all sold them and bought Transformers after using mine.... That's 3 people that might actually spend 10 minutes before a big purchase investigating alternatives, rather than just buying what they know and what's got the biggest marketing budget...
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Yea, and out of those three, how many said...gee...browsing sucks compared to my old iPad, or....where is all the honeycomb software..this is all we got?....or how come my transformers battery does not last as long as my old iPad unless I turn it off....or how in the hell do you type on this while on the web....there is a huge lag...or why does the screen lag so bad.....and my favorite one....why cant I get Netflix to work?...or how come games suck...
I hope ice cream will take care of the above problems. Or even kal- el will.

H3llb0und said:
Nice!
My Transformer and my DHD pwn iPads and iPhones almost on a daily basis at my workplace.
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Same set up here same result
DESIRE HD using leedroid. ASUS TRANSFORMER using prime

i got tft few days ago and i love it.
high resolution (ipad lower). battery is great. ipad sucks for os. cant dowload anything.
only thing ipad is better is more apps
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

jtrosky said:
3. Screen - while the screen in the transformer is nice (2nd best I've seen), the iPad display is better.
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Sorry, I cannot agree on this. Screen quality is the same (contrast, colour, unfortunately the glossiness too), but Transformer has better resolution (aspect ratio - I'm not sure which is better). I compared my Transformer to both iPad 1 and iPad 2 and the screen is just the same. (And my cheap EIZO monitor beats both of them in colour reproduction, contrast and black level - but on tablet I don't need those that much . I'm really happy with this monitor though, it's the first LCD I have that beats my old CRT on all fronts, not only on some. )
On the other points you are right.

Magnesus said:
Sorry, I cannot agree on this. Screen quality is the same (contrast, colour, unfortunately the glossiness too), but Transformer has better resolution (aspect ratio - I'm not sure which is better). I compared my Transformer to both iPad 1 and iPad 2 and the screen is just the same. (And my cheap EIZO monitor beats both of them in colour reproduction, contrast and black level - but on tablet I don't need those that much . I'm really happy with this monitor though, it's the first LCD I have that beats my old CRT on all fronts, not only on some. )
On the other points you are right.
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That is a good point (the glossiness) - my iPad 1 has an anti-glare screen protector on it and my Transformer does not - maybe that's the difference that I am seeing...
I just ordered some (two, because I usually screw up the first one) SGP UltaFine anti-glare protectors as the glare drives me nuts.... We'll see if that changes my opinion at all...

I have the answer to why people go with Apple. There used to be a saying in tech., "You can't go wrong buying IBM". For better or worse, an updated saying would be, "You can't go wrong buying Apple".
There is also the general misconception that Apple owns the smart phone market. Primarily caused by the fact that Apple advertises wayyyy more than any tech. company.
I think there is a lot of fear out there that Android is fragmented and less secure. There is probably some truth to the latter, but I think it's overblown.
I have to give Apple the nod for software, but my having compared Apples to Androids (), Android OS is far ahead of iOS. iOS just feels old and clunky compared Android. The caps lock doesn't update the upper/lower case on keyboard, really??? The back button is on the top of the screen and home is on the bottom? This forces the user to hyper extend their thumb or use two hands to use the device. Fail!
FYI: We are looking at mobile and I love telling people that our Flex app. just runs my Transformer.

Android that supports windowing?

I'm just curious - with tablets as popular as they are - and with nice big screens, do you think there is any chance Android will provide any sort of windowing system in the future (so you can see more than one app at a time)? I think that would be awesome on tablets...
Any thoughts??

There is always that onskreen thing that is being developed... i heard conflicting sides to why it's not available on android, but itsounds like google is trying to displace apple instead of overwhelming it by showing that tablets can be more than entertainment..

Hmm, haven't heard of Onskreen - I just looked it up and it looks awesome! Has any OEM actually used it yet?? It says that it IS for Andorid, from what I read!

Well, there are several reasons why onskreen cornerstone is having a hard time launching. But here are the main reasons.
(1) Onskreen wants to make a lot of money out of this. So, they want to go through the formal route of having google and tablet manufacturers incorporate this in the updates.
(2) Unfortunately for onskreen, google and tablet manufacturers are not convinced that people would want this feature on their tablets.
About #2, look at the success of the ipad and ipad 2. And you couldn't even multitask on the ipad. Yet, apple is selling them by the tens of millions. Google and android tablet manufacturers think people don't want multitasking on their tablets. These mega companies are trying to catch up to the ipad's success by tailing it. And that means copying how ipad works.
Last there was any info on the development of cornerstone, google and some manufacturers were making onskreen take surveys to prove that anyone at all would like this feature on their tablet. It's sad, really, that these mega companies are perfectly happy tailing apple instead of trying something new to beat it.

If my tablet had a twenty inch screen I would want Xmonad, never mind that. At 10.1 inches Android is good enough at multi-tasking. Maybe if Android overtakes Windows PC someday in the next billion years, we'll get windowing.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Spidey01 said:
If my tablet had a twenty inch screen I would want Xmonad, never mind that. At 10.1 inches Android is good enough at multi-tasking. Maybe if Android overtakes Windows PC someday in the next billion years, we'll get windowing.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
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No way... imagine being able to watch a YouTube video while browsing Tapatalk. Or open GTalk while watching a movie. A tiling window manager for our TF would be really awesome. Not to mention I hook my TF up to a 24" monitor or 40+" TV for doing development work on (ConnectBot SSH'd into a VPS running vim), which would really really benefit from this.
Sent from my Transformer TF101

Gary13579 said:
No way... imagine being able to watch a YouTube video while browsing Tapatalk. Or open GTalk while watching a movie. A tiling window manager for our TF would be really awesome. Not to mention I hook my TF up to a 24" monitor or 40+" TV for doing development work on (ConnectBot SSH'd into a VPS running vim), which would really really benefit from this.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
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+1 - my thoughts exactly!

Unfortunately it seems running eMMC Ubuntu is the only solution to this at the moment, and without hardware accel it's definitely not the quickest solution.
That being said, I run a full dev environment (with VPN) on my Transformer and it's incredibly convenient.
Also, battery life in Ubuntu is incredible! Surprisingly so for me anyway..
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

Gary13579 said:
No way... imagine being able to watch a YouTube video while browsing Tapatalk. Or open GTalk while watching a movie. A tiling window manager for our TF would be really awesome. Not to mention I hook my TF up to a 24" monitor or 40+" TV for doing development work on (ConnectBot SSH'd into a VPS running vim), which would really really benefit from this.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
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I am a _very_ heavy multi tasker and overloader, as in making my laptop want to halt and catch fire kind of multitasking. At a minimal we're talking code compiling, music streaming, and 3+ IM tabs. while surfing the web. If I have a 24" or 40+" to work with, I'll want them each arranged in tiles automatically like XMonad can.
Over the years I have used the following: 15", 19", 22" wide, 10.1" wide, and 15.4" or w/e the wide format is. Resolutions from SVGA to HD. You know what I found when I was using a 10.1" netbook? Most of the time ALT+TAB was more effective with so little screen space. Whether I was reading or writing, watching or chatting, there just wasn't enough screen screen space for more than 1 and 1/3 programs on a 10.1" at 1024x600. I'd rather ALT+TAB than use smaller windows. The TF101's resolution on the 15.x" laptop wasn't so much better, that I would expect the same resolution on 10.1" to be a serious improvement. To be honest I never notied that big a serious gain until I hit 1920x1080 on a 22" wide screen!!!
At work, I run tmux locally (it's like screen) and connect to dtach'd shells on the development server; at home I skip the SSH part. Chrome and Pidgin being the primary GUI needs that matter and corrisponding to Opera Mobile and IMO+jTalk on my TF101.
So I don't really miss adding the 20" Dell on my desktop to it most times. It is a short comming that I can't hook up my TF to my 22" wide at home and have xterm and chrome side by side, the way my netbook and laptop could, and being able to use xrandr to choose if I wanted a mirror or a second screen, or even to make the big screen the only screen. But hey, I can't really complain because most of the time I would just be filling it with a huge ass xterm. For most people that use a tiling wm, probably the same. Regular users have more need of it and regular users are not going to use their TF the way I do.
It was a nice to have feature not a requirement -- because if it was, I wouldn't have been using anything less mobile than my desktop PC to start with! I just don't need that to be productive...maybe if I spent my job in photoshop instead of vim, idk.
edit: if it was to a vote, I'd rather have better access to things like Chrome's debugging tools than multiple windows. Then I wouldn't need my workstation every now and then!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

But remember - as with any windowing system, you would always have the option to run any app in full screen mode.... It would just be nice to have the option to view mutiple apps at once in certain situations... I don't see any drawbacks - just advantages!
The biggest problem I currently have is that when I go back to the home sceeen from some apps, the app actually closes, so there is no way to multitask.... If I had multiple windows on teh screen at once, I wouldn't have that issue...
Currently, I guess it's up to the app to determine if it stays open when going back to the home screen?? It just seems like I don't have the option to multitask all apps....

jtrosky said:
But remember - as with any windowing system, you would always have the option to run any app in full screen mode.... It would just be nice to have the option to view mutiple apps at once in certain situations... I don't see any drawbacks - just advantages!
The biggest problem I currently have is that when I go back to the home sceeen from some apps, the app actually closes, so there is no way to multitask.... If I had multiple windows on teh screen at once, I wouldn't have that issue...
Currently, I guess it's up to the app to determine if it stays open when going back to the home screen?? It just seems like I don't have the option to multitask all apps....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get an ipad.

goodintentions said:
Get an ipad.
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Huh? I have an iPad - it's even worse than Android at Mutlitasking!
Back to the question - what determines if an Android app is multitask-able? Is it up to the author of the app?
Thanks!

jtrosky said:
Huh? I have an iPad - it's even worse than Android at Mutlitasking!
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But... but... according to engadget the ipad is perfect at everything. Surely, the best, most powerful tablet in the world (personally created by St. Stephen and distributed by the Holy Apple Church) would be perfect at multitasking.

goodintentions said:
But... but... according to engadget the ipad is perfect at everything. Surely, the best, most powerful tablet in the world (personally created by St. Stephen and distributed by the Holy Apple Church) would be perfect at multitasking.
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Too funny! I would like the option as well to view both programs similar to cascade in windows. The only thing close I have ever seen is the dual browser whcih is ok but obviously only for internet pages. I truly think android needs a couple more software iterations. However I also don't think eclipse would let u do half of a screen for example because they have specific dimensions and sizes built in. Much like compatibility mode, if the app could default to a smaller size then it could be possible but probably wouldn't look natural.
Fascinate CM7 Stable

jtrosky said:
But remember - as with any windowing system, you would always have the option to run any app in full screen mode.... It would just be nice to have the option to view mutiple apps at once in certain situations... I don't see any drawbacks - just advantages!
The biggest problem I currently have is that when I go back to the home sceeen from some apps, the app actually closes, so there is no way to multitask.... If I had multiple windows on teh screen at once, I wouldn't have that issue...
Currently, I guess it's up to the app to determine if it stays open when going back to the home screen?? It just seems like I don't have the option to multitask all apps....
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Click to collapse
I can't really see the development efforts and the major headscrew for the user expirerence as being worth it until we have the Android PC where most people have a Dell or an eMachine on a desk. Maybe someday if Windows 8 flops but not today w/o a freaky fork of Android.
A great plus of Android to me, I have almost all the power my BSD and Linux based systems have, everything I need (personally) to be productive, some useful propritary apps I might not get with FreeBSD, plus it is so easy to use that my mother can use Gingerbread and Froyo. We have had computers for nearly 20 years and she has used Windows XP since 2001 ---- and still struggles with multiple windows, copying and pasting, browsing/saving files, etc. Holy crap, I think it took 7 years for her to stop asking me, "Left or right click". Google has done an awesome job IMHO.
That is just an awesome combo, plus I could probably use x forwarding/vnc magic and get a 1280x1080 GNU/Linux desktop on my big screen, and use a local VNC connection when getting up to go. Maybe even resize it after rather than scroll around. So I can technically have it if I wanted or needed it for productivity, just not with Android apps.
@the multitasking part, usually you can use the copy buffer as an accumulator when that happens. I tend to use Home or the "Multitasking" buttons / ALT+Tab depending on what I'm doing, and rarely have a problem unless I take too long to switch back or launch something memory intensive. Also another reason I switched from TexTab to Tablet Talk, hehe. Most apps that I use don't cause me troubles and those that do on occasion (TeamSpeak) wouldn't if designed properly for the life cycle of an Android application. Then there are some where the activity just dies out, like MoboPlayer lol.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Spidey, fact is, I'd get a lot of use out of a tiling wm on Android. I know we can go without it, certainly, that's why I'm still using my TF for development! The TF offers so many advantages over a traditional notebook that the loss is worth it, but that doesn't make it useless. There are many, many uses for it, especially for IM and video. I suppose we could probably get IM working with window fragments... I'll have to look into it for my #1 l33t IM app! Also tiling things like connectbot and the browser would be great, for so many reasons. It may not be perfect on such a small screen, but it would be useful most of the time.
jtrosky said:
Huh? I have an iPad - it's even worse than Android at Mutlitasking!
Back to the question - what determines if an Android app is multitask-able? Is it up to the author of the app?
Thanks!
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He tells that to everyone that even hints at Android not being perfect.
Android sends a signal to an app when you leave it, telling it that you left. It sits there for a while, and if you don't enter it again for so long, Android sends it a destroy signal, and it's up to the author of the app to save the current state so it can be resumed next time it's opened. If it doesn't behave like this, then yea, it's because of the author of the app (or it's too complicated an app to save/restore the state... eg imagine a 3d game).
Sent from my Transformer TF101

Gary13579 said:
Android sends a signal to an app when you leave it, telling it that you left. It sits there for a while, and if you don't enter it again for so long, Android sends it a destroy signal, and it's up to the author of the app to save the current state so it can be resumed next time it's opened. If it doesn't behave like this, then yea, it's because of the author of the app (or it's too complicated an app to save/restore the state... eg imagine a 3d game).
Sent from my Transformer TF101
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Thanks for the info! What I've been noticing thuough is that when I try to multitask certain apps, they wont even show in my recents list at all (like tthere is NO chance for multitasking...). From what your saying, it sounds like all apps shoudl be able to multitask to some point, but that's not what I'm seeing... I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the custom ROM/kernel I'm using...
Thanks again! Obviously, not a huge deal, but kinda annoying sometimes.
Regardless, I would NEVER even think of switching back to Apple devices (gave the iPad to the wife) - Android really is so much more powerful!

jtrosky said:
Thanks for the info! What I've been noticing thuough is that when I try to multitask certain apps, they wont even show in my recents list at all (like tthere is NO chance for multitasking...). From what your saying, it sounds like all apps shoudl be able to multitask to some point, but that's not what I'm seeing... I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the custom ROM/kernel I'm using...
Thanks again! Obviously, not a huge deal, but kinda annoying sometimes.
Regardless, I would NEVER even think of switching back to Apple devices (gave the iPad to the wife) - Android really is so much more powerful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only time I've seen this happen is because of launching one app from another. eg if you click a web link within an app and it opens the browser, it won't show both the originating app *and* the browser for some reason, it only shows one (I forget which).
Sent from my Transformer TF101

Gary13579 said:
The only time I've seen this happen is because of launching one app from another. eg if you click a web link within an app and it opens the browser, it won't show both the originating app *and* the browser for some reason, it only shows one (I forget which).
Sent from my Transformer TF101
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thanks for the info. I can't even remember which apps were giving me issues off-hand - I'll have to start paying attention to this again to see if my system is working properly or not.
Thanks again.

Gary13579 said:
Spidey, fact is, I'd get a lot of use out of a tiling wm on Android. I know we can go without it, certainly, that's why I'm still using my TF for development! The TF offers so many advantages over a traditional notebook that the loss is worth it, but that doesn't make it useless. There are many, many uses for it, especially for IM and video. I suppose we could probably get IM working with window fragments... I'll have to look into it for my #1 l33t IM app! Also tiling things like connectbot and the browser would be great, for so many reasons. It may not be perfect on such a small screen, but it would be useful most of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said it was useless but short of the Android PC on almost everyones desk, I don't see that happening; because I can understand why Google hasn't really done that. And I think we will just get refineme ts on what we already have for multi-tasking by Android 6.x.
jtrosky said:
What I've been noticing thuough is that when I try to multitask certain apps, they wont even show in my recents list at all (like tthere is NO chance for multitasking...).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is most probmatic when one activity lauches another, for example openning a PDF in Polaris via Opera. I hope the mukti0tasking button gets better in ICS, since I need the dock to use the okd one.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 vs Window based Tablet experience

I have been a pen/tablet enthusiastic for many years and have owned (and still own) loads of tablet over the years. I currently own and use 4 window based pen-tablets (2 XP, 1 Vista, and 1 Window 7), 2 iPads, 2 iPod touch, Apple Macbook Pro (2009), Apple Macbook Air 13" (2012), Samsung Galaxy Note 5.3, and then the latest Galaxy Note 10.1. I also used to own loads of Window powered PDAs, palm, casio, etc.
As you can see for the list above, I have been looking for the perfect computing experience, especially the pen/tablet experience. I bought the Note 10.1 because of my Note 5.3. IMHO, the Note 10.1 is a decent pen-tablet, and it had made vast improvement over the Ntoe 5.3 in terms of hardware. However, it is the software where I feel is limiting the Note 10.1 from being a perfect pen-tablet machine.
People have already disregard the window based PC as being a serious tablet and they are rightfully so. The XP, Vista, and Window 7 while can be used to run as a tablet, have never been designed for tablet. So my experience with them have always been frustrating. HOWEVER, it was a pleasant surprise to me when I loaded the release preview of Window 8 few weeks ago onto 3 of my old Window tablets.
I have a Samsung Q1UP (6 year old, XP, w/resistive pen, 2GB ram, 64GB SSD), a HP 2710P (4 years old, w/Wavcom pen, 1GB ram, 80GB HDD), an ACER W500 (2 year old, w/touch pen, 2GB ram, 32GB SDD), and when loaded with the Window 8, all 3 machines even though are old have given me a VERY good pen/tablet experience. All 3 tablets now run much faster and very very smooth. The surprise comes when all these tablets are now running more like an Andriod/IOS instead of a typical window os. You can smoothly scroll, zoom, etc just like an iPad or Galaxy Note. The battery life seems to have improved in all these machines, and the time from sleep to logon screen is about 2-3 seconds. Loading programs used to take forever under the old OS, but now I can load excel, word, one-note, etc from cold in about 2 seconds.
Now to the most important part, the pen use with Window 8. The handwriting recognition is much better and faster than the Note 10.1 (for all 3 devices with the resistive pen, wavcom pen, and touch pen). The S-Note in the Note 10.1 is just a tiny program, but the One-Note is a full blown application with seamless integration with Office and Sky Drive, etc.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
PS: I am in absolutely no way affiliated with any of the companies mentioned about, I am just giving my take on using all these devices over the years.

Good post.
What's your take on the new slate 5 vs surface pro?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to better understand your argument, are you including Windows 8 RT in your Windows 8 grouping? Because, that's the version that you want to use when comparing apples to apples (e.g., Android/Apple tablets to Windows 8 tablets), not the X86 Intel versions as you did in your post. For instance, the price point argument, as well as the Ford Focus vs. 911 analogy, will not be applicable, because the products are in different categories/segments (I can't imagine someone cross-shopping a Focus and a 911).

My point is that pound for pound, at least with the Samsung units, you will pay signficantly more for the same level of tablet, even the RT. As a matter of fact the W8 RT offering from Samsung will be slightly worse than the SGN10.1 since the screen is larger with roughly the same resolution. If you dont like the SGN10.1 screen youll hate the W8 RT screen.
For me at least, the primary benefit of Windows over Android is Office programs like Access. Word and Excel are emulated on Android just fine. I dont believe W8 RT will even run Access and if it does I believe the screen is too small to use it effectively with forms designed for a larger screen.
Again, what is the benefit to the consumer of using touch with Office? There is none. So you are trading in a big screen that you do need for touch that you dont.
Tablets are not laptop replacements and if you price them like one you are going to have a problem. They need to be priced like an accessory. Right now at least, Android does that better at the SGN10.1 price. Even $500 is close to being too high.
My conclusion is that W8 Tablets will be too much for a tablet and do too little to replace a laptop. Just my opinion. It may sell gangbusters but I dont think so. We'll have to wait and see. Nevertheless, its presence in the marketpalce will make Android products better
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

mitchellvii said:
Well you are comparing apples and oranges and also making the logical fallacy that just because you like something others will as well. Based upon your large collection of tablets, price is not a big issue for you. You just want the best tablet experience, period. Thats all good, but the majority of buyers don't share your enthusiasm.
Keep in mind that most people think of their tablets as an accessory and not a primary computing device. As soon as you get much above the $500 price point you are getting into primary computing device territory. But with an 11.6 inch screen, tablets do not offer enough real estate to be an ultrabook replacement, especially for a business person running larger format legacy corporate software. I would go blind trying to read my company's database forms on an 11.6 inch HD screen - they cant just be resized as a Word document can be.
Also, will most business people think touch and pen input are worth trading in their 15 inch ultrabook screens for? I have been using Office for 20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen. Office needs two things - lots of screens space and a mouse, a W8 Tablet offers neither.
Samsung makes a good profit on the SGN10.1. They could easily drop the price another $50 and still make money. In addition, one would assume that Samsung will be updating the SGN10.1 to the Note 2.0 software which is far far superior. Whereas W8 is a bit of a lumbering behemoth that will take years to see any major upgrades, Android can change and improve quickly. Also Android is far more customizable. Dont forget that word on the street is Windows 8 as a true desktop OS sucks and wont see broad corporate acceptance.
So you have to ask yourself, will the market as a whole be ready to pay 30% more for a device that does a lot of things (touch and pen) on a Windows device they may not need? Don't forget that we are already competing with very good 7 inch tablets that cost less than a third the price of the new W8 tablets.
Windows 8 tablets will be stuck in the middle. Too expensive for the casual user and too small for the serious user. When it comes to tablets most people want one that costs the least and does the job well enough. Think of it like cars. They sell a lot more Ford Focuses than Porsche 911's. The Porsche is a better car but the Ford just does the job for less. SGN10.1 will continue to be the cheapest usable pen input large format tablet on the market for the foreseeable future. It may not work quite as well as the W8 tablet but it works well enough for 1/3 less.
The good news is the competition will force Android to be better but no, I think Android has got little to worry about from Windows 8.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
The observation in my original post is based on actual experience. Yours seemed to be based on pure speculations and imaginations. I truly doubt you have similar experience before making your comments. I welcome you to try them first and proof me wrong, or stop making illogical fallacy.
1. I read many of the owners who bought the Note 10.1 because of the S-Pen. Some owners even suggested potential buyers to look elsewhere if they are purely looking for an Android tablet as there are better alternatives out there. At present, only the Note 10.1 and Window tablets offer pens experience, so I don’t understand why you think it is an apple to orange comparison.
2. When I composed the list of devices I own, I was hoping to give some background on the wide variety of devices/OS I have used, so that I can make my points. But you turned it into a show-off list.
3. You mentioned “…20 years and never once felt the need to touch the screen”, then you went to buy the Note 10.1 and other touch devices, interesting!
4. The ACER W500 Win 7 tablet I bought 2 years ago brand new was $550 then (the Note 10.1 is about the same price range). The hardware was mediocre at the time, and it sucked with Win 7. I was amused how Window 8 has turned it into a very respectable tablet, with very fast and accurate hand writing recognition, and good note experience with One-Note, then further suggested today’s hardware could only do better. You turned it into a Ford and Porsche comparison. I bet you had never owned a Porsche before, so it is a mood point arguing with you here.
5. You must be the CFO of Samsung as you knew how much profit they are making on the SGN10.1, and can easily drop the price by another $50. BTW, Samsung also makes the upcoming Window 8 tablet with MSRP of $649 and respectable hardware (S-PEN, 11.6” , 1366 x 768, 2GB Ram, 9 hrs battery life, 750g, and 64GB SSD http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/29/samsung-announces-series-5-slate-series-7-slate/). Based on your insider knowledge, Samsung could also easily drop the price by another $50 for the Window tablet. Then there are other tablets makers that produce cheaper devices.
6. I had never once suggested Window 8 will take over Android or even compete with it, so I think you are making your comments based on illusion.
Best wishes!

Lol, i guess your definition of "troll"is anyone who disagrees with you? You come to the SGN10.1 Forum announcing that our tablet is "just ok" while the W8 tablets will be the Second Coming and you don't expect any pushback?
I made the argument that the W8 tablets will have a difficult time finding their place in a competitive market. Many pundits online agree with me. Too expensive for a tablet, too small for a laptop. You imply that I said you were bragging about all your tablets. I simply said that you were concerned more about performance than price. How did you get from that that i said you were bragging?
As far as knowing the Samsung can cut the price of the SGN10.1 and still make money that is a well established fact. Google is your friend.
Oh well, if you must leave I am sorry. Im sure there is someone in here that will miss you praising the W8 tablets and putting down the SGN10.1.
P.S. Actually I am a BMW man myself. The center console on Porsche is too wide and presses against my shin because I am tall. The Ford/Porsche comparison was an attempt to compare a tool which can do the job at a lower cost vs one that offers good things but perhaps things that cost conscious people dont need.
Touch with Office is a perfect example of this. Why does anyone need touch with Office? Id rather have a 15 inch screen.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------
For those who feel, as the OP does, that I am pulling my concerns about W8 Tablets from my backside, here is a quote from PCWorld Magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent..._8_tablets_have_what_it_takes_to_succeed.html
There are a number of issues that could make Windows 8 tablets dead on arrival, or at least a very tough sell. Two of the biggest will be price, and confusion over differences between Windows on ARM (WOA) tablets, and x86/x64 architecture tablets.
ARM-based devices will probably be better tablets than their x86/x64 counterparts. WOA tablets will most likely be lighter, cooler, have longer battery life, and--most importantly--be cheaper. ARM-based tablets will be more on par with the competing tablets already in the market like the iPad, Motorola Xoom, Samsung Galaxy Tab, and others.
That all sounds great, but WOA tablets also come with significant handicaps that nullify most of what makes a Windows 8 tablet appealing. For example, WOA tablets can’t run traditional Windows software--they require apps written for the Metro UI.
Wes Miller from GetWired.com and Directions on Microsoft poses the question, “For enterprises who will have to rewrite their (non-Web) applications in Metro for WOA anyway, the question comes up, "why wouldn't I rewrite it for iOS instead?", since there is no way to run non-Microsoft Win32 apps on WOA.”
The bigger issue for WOA tablets is that Microsoft has revealed they are intended for “unmanaged environments”. What that translates to is that WOA tablets will not be able to connect to Windows domains and be managed like x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets, and other Windows systems.
Amobi says that there are arguments to be made for and against WOA tablets, and it’s still too early for a final verdict. But, he stresses, “If they cant join domains--game over.”
No worries. We still have x86/x64 Windows 8 tablets to fall back on, right? True, but there are some caveats.
An x86/x64 tablet is just squeezing a notebook or desktop into a touchscreen, flat-panel form factor. That has advantages, but we also know that running Windows takes a fair amount of processing horsepower and memory. While it may be possible to run Windows 8 with less RAM, 4GB is probably the minimum for acceptable performance. That is four times what most ARM tablets use.
When you build a tablet on x86/x64 architecture, and try to beef up the RAM to deliver adequate performance, the tablet starts to face other issues. As previously mentioned, users want tablets that are thin, light, and have endurance to last all day on a single charge. It is unlikely that x86/x64 tablets can truly compete with ARM-based rivals in these areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I have stated, W8 Tablets will be stuck in the middle. RT too underpowered to run true Windows software and Pro too small to run true Windows software properly.
DOA.
Hopefully these facts have taken some of the emotion out of this argument.

What the heck OP, please respond to my original question!
New slate 5 vs surface pro. Based on your experience, should we (consumers) wait for the SP release before purchasing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.

tenderidol said:
mitchellvii, you are assuming too much and treating your "opinion" as the gospel truth.
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Just like the OP, I'm not putting down the Note 10.1; I'm actually waiting for the UPS truck to bring a 32GB version today. However, you don't have to blindly defend it when an alternative view is presented. Just embrace the fact that for every device with additional features (e.g., being able to run OneNote and a full OS on a tablet), there's a segment out there. If you are outside of that segment or find some of those features not very useful for your way of using a tablet, it's perfectly fine, as long as you realize the advantages and disadvantages of each device with an open mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP said:
"Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.

mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, "just making up stuff" you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really must love the Note 10.1 like your significant other. Calling it a "decent machine" is an insult? As I mentioned above, keep an open mind, and you'll be able to see the strengths and the weaknesses of each device.

mitchellvii said:
The OP said:
Nice of him to let us know our SGN10.1 is "a decent machine" (compared to the glowing oracle of W8). I consider that a put-down.
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are. You posted an article filled with opinions from Mar and think that these are facts. They are not.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda app-developers app

mitchellvii said:
"Blindly defending"? As in, just making up stuff you mean? Did you even bother read the article? Lol. Read it and get back to me on my blind defense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, stating someone else's opinion is a fact, now? Got it! Let me find that Verge review and link it here as the "fact" about Note 10.1.
Again... I purchased the damn thing and will be using it to its full potential. However, unlike you, I'll keep an open mind and try the Samsung Smart PC offerings (specifically the Series 5). If it performs well, it'll replace the Note 10.1 (or I may keep both, since they serve different functions); if not, I'll continue to use it happily.

tenderidol said:
Have you used OneNote on a tablet computer? S-Note is the extremely light version of OneNote when it comes to note-taking (not doodling or sketching, etc). It is certain that it will get better over time, but the current/first generation is a good introduction to what it can do in the future.
From drawing and sketching point of view, I can make the same argument that you are making for Office and touch. Note 10.1 most likely won't replace anyone's Wacom tablet to produce art on a 10.1" screen. With the same perspective as yours, this falls right in the middle: not enough for professionals and little more than people who aren't into drawing/sketching necessarily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."​

BarryH_GEG said:
Three things are missing from this conversation to make it worthwhile.
1) Everyone uses their tablets differently. A gamer, heavy productivity user, graphic artist, reader, and someone who uses it primarily for consumption all have different needs. And someone's personal weighting of those things determine which product is "best" for them. I could easily see someone needing OneNote (and MS Office in general) jumping on W8 just for that. Same thing for a graphic artist who wants access to desktop versions of tools they typically use. How many of them there are and how well W8 tablets do more pedestrian things will determine their success, not our discussion.
2) We're comparing something that doesn't exist to something that does. Unless you all intend to go out and buy an Acer W500 with 4 hours of battery life and that weighs two pounds this is at best a theoretical conversation until actual W8 tablets are in people's hands and can be evaluated in real-world use. And don't forget the Pro tablets come with all the stuff we love about Windows: 1) driver incompatibilities, 2) control panel, and 3) multiple menus, clicks, and "enters," to launch or access something. The UI formally known as Metro doesn't hide the fact that there's a huge resource intensive hulk of an OS to be tamed running in the background. How many general-use iPad candidates do you think will find that acceptable? And they’re MS’s bogie, not the 20% of the tablet market that’s using Android.
3) Until the complete feature set is known for both RT and Pro tablets and what apps will be available to them initially you can't have a price-value conversation. I highly doubt entry-level consumer targeted RT tablets will do some of things being discussed. Similarly if a loaded Pro tablet is $1K that changes the conversation when comparing it to a $500 Android tablet.
I'll check back in with you guys once the tablets are in people's hands for a while and then we can have a legitimate conversation of the pros and cons of each.
BTW, here's an excerpt of a review of the HP TouchPad when it was first released. Just because a monolithic company launches something its success isn't guaranteed. It’s too early to say whether W8 tablets will be a Zune or an XBox 360 for MS and no one here can do anything but proffer an opinion as to which way it will go.
"You would almost think that webOS had been designed for tablets from the very beginning. It feels more native to tablets than any other software on any other tablet, despite being an almost exact translation of the phone interface (minus almost all of the bezel gestures). Multitasking on anything else feels almost stupid compared to Cards. An open app is a card. You can stack them, sort them, re-arrange them, and when you're done, close them. Juggling a bunch makes you feel like you're getting stuff done. Palm's big tablet adaptation, panes, is a straight riff on the iPad Twitter UI. So in email and other complex apps, you slide layers—inboxes, message lists, actual messages—back and forth to move between them. Notifications, which pop down from the top of the scree, let you flip through the pile, one at a time, without ever opening the app-handy if you get IMs from five different people. They're great ideas."​
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Click to collapse
With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here. Below is an excerpt from the OP. To me, it overlaps very well with your points and my argument. Somehow, this was turned into "How dare you put down Note10.1? Windows 8 tablets are DOA!" bickery.
With the new tablets coming designed specifically with Window 8 in mind, I think Microsoft has risen the par on tablet competition. As the upcoming Samsung Series 5 hybrid tablet, for example, is coming with a $650 based price, 11 hrs battery life (with the optional keyboard), 750g weight, and can run all window software. Even though I have not seen, touch or used one of these new machines, the fact that Window 8 has turned my 6 years old tablet into a brand new machine is exciting for me.
Please don't get me wrong. I think the Samsung Note 10.1 is a decent machine which I will definitely keep. I bought it because I can carry it all day and not worry about battery, and I hardly need to run any PC applications these days when I am out. More importantly if I plan to use the PC all day, I probably need to bring the charger with me which will bring the weight up to 1kg or more. Since I carry my camera with me all day, the Note 10.1 is a better choice for me.
However, if you are looking into serious note taking and also need to run pc applications, I think the Window 8 tablets may be a good alternative. We will all know if this is true when the machines are officially announced in late Oct.
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Click to collapse

[email protected] said:
WOW!! I wished someone had warned me about troll living here and that no comments other than good Note 10.1 comments are allowed in this forum. This will be my last post in the forum, leaving you alone to harass other people.
Best wishes!
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Click to collapse
[email protected], welcome. Sorry about the resident W8 Hater. I recommend to just ignore him.
Thank you for sharing your experience with your Note(s) and your tablets with Windows 8! My experience with my Note 10.1 is pretty much the same as yours. I am really looking forward to trying out a Surface Pro or one of the other new W8 tablets that are coming out. Your post has just seriously reinforced that!
When you use One Note on a tablet, does it give you inking features for drawing pictures and hand writing notes similar to what S-Note does? I have W8 and One Note, but no Ink-enabled device to put them on to play with it myself.

tenderidol said:
With the exception of one person, we are all on the same page here.
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Click to collapse
Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.

BarryH_GEG said:
Who are "we?" I have no idea what everyone here's needs are. I also have no idea what the "cons" are going to be that will without doubt go along with the rosy PR blurb “pros” being thrown out. I'm in marketing so perhaps I'm less susceptible to spin than some of you guys because I create it. MS lost their way and have a bunch of simultaneous "Hail Mary's" launching concurrently (Cloud, W8 the OS, and W8 the tablet). I wish them nothing but the best. But I'd like to see some traction gained before drinking their Kool-Aid and declaring their success. And that will take months to realize. I'm a heavy productivity user and use OneNote, MS Office, and SharePoint so therefore a candidate for a W8 tablet. Only I'm not as eager to throw out my fairly evolved Android device to experience V1 of the h/w and s/w of an alternative. Months from now I may own a W8 tablet. Based on my personal needs and usage there's absolutely no rush. You guys can go first and if the world's not flat I'll follow you.
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Click to collapse
"We" as in "people who currently own the Note 10.1 and wanted to try and see the potential of upcoming Windows 8 tablets without forming any assumptions based on others' opinions". As you can see, nobody is saying that this will be a huge success, it's going to be "superior" or will definitely trump other tablets, etc. Let's see if the potential of the device is met by the hardware and the software first. As I stated, I have my reservations for the Atom-based CPU and 2 GB RAM in the Series 5. If it can't handle the load, I won't be moving over to the Series 7, because it's too heavy and pricey for me. I thought this was the original discussion.

tenderidol said:
see the potential
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Click to collapse
Promise and potential are very different from practice and reality. And sometimes when they collide it isn’t pretty. Since this entire conversation is theoretical there can never be a decisive conclusion. I really don't have an opinion and won't until I can personally play with a W8 tablet and see how well it does the things I need it to do. Even then, my conclusion will only apply to me and my individual needs.
Think about this. Here's the iPad demographic.
iPad ownership is skewed toward young customers, with 27% of owners between 25 and 34. The average iPad owner is affluent, with a median income of $85,000 a year. Most importantly, they are much more likely to be buying things.​
Don't you think that audience is using MS Office and OneNote professionally to earn the higher median income they do? Apple's sold 100MM iPads with no native access to MS Office. Taking a broader view I don't think it's the "killer app" many of you believe it will be. Especially if it comes at the price of a less refined h/w and s/w experience. There's also a certain cache that comes from owning an iPad. Android tablet owners tend to be classified as rugged individualists and technology enthusiasts. What will W8 tablet owners be? People that need access to MS apps? Pretty low on the "cool" scale, no? There’s more to a product’s success than just functionality.
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.

BarryH_GEG said:
Just food for thought while we're discussing the potential mass-market (in other words, not us) success of W8 tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which we weren't until some folks hijacked the thread and went totally OT from the OP...

Super Dilemma! Buy Dell Latitude 10 Now or Wait for Haswell! – Tablets!

I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice

needspractice said:
I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm like you and was stuck and didn't know what to do. After researching online it seems Haswell tablets wont be out until the end of this year, but I needed a tablet now. I went with the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. It's faster than my SurfaceRT was and I absolutely love the digitizer. I use the pen mainly as a mouse when in the full desktop. It makes a huge difference having the pen to use as a mouse. If they refresh the Thinkpad2, I plan to sell my current one to acquire the haswell version. You always have that choice if you don't mind ebay/craigslist.

I absolutely love the new super long battery life of the Atom Z2760. By reading reviews of the Tablets I am finding out that all day battery life is absolutely no problem. Especially with the battery upgrade you can do with Dell on the Latitude 10 optional “60 WHR 4-Cell Battery”. People are getting like days of battery life.
I was really torn between the Microsoft Surface Pro which seems like a beast with all the loves and kisses of an amazing tablet but the battery life is horrid. I am currently going back to college and am looking for a note taking power house that will absolutely last all day, let’s say 8 hours. I know the Microsoft Surface Pro will be fast and the perfect size but will not last all day maybe 4 to 5 hours.
So battery life is my absolutely main objective. Even though I would love to have the Surface I prefer battery life. Other people might only need 4 hours of battery life and the Surface will be fine for them.
So back to my main question about the famous Haswell chip. I really want to pull the trigger on the Dell Latitude 10 because of the upgraded battery but I am reading about the Haswell chip and it seems to be everything tablets are not right now. I know you will always be in a 6 month loop with technology with something always better around the corner but this is something different. They say this is revolutionary and will increase performance and battery life by leaps and bounds. They are building the chip and tablet from the ground up with the Haswell.
What do I do? I mean will the Haswell actually be the amazing new Tablet revolution that everyone is talking about or is it just a bunch of hype? I mean how much more battery life can you pour into a Tablet over the Clovertrial.
I really do not need the performance upgrades of Haswell so much because I will be mainly using the tablet for note taking. I do not care about gaming, but same price and better performace is always nice in case you ever need it.
Please give me your thoughts or similar experiences. Will you be buying a Tablet now or waiting? Do you think it’s worth it to wait or just buy now? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I only want a full blown windows 8 experience as well, not RT, Android, or anything else.
Best,
Needspractice
me too.
customise 128GB SSD.
on dual booting 7 and 8:good:
too use separated.

I would definitely consider an iPad for educational use. They're excellent for note taking and reading textbooks. No, I'm not kidding.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

But he wants Win 8.

veeman said:
I would definitely consider an iPad for educational use. They're excellent for note taking and reading textbooks. No, I'm not kidding.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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Click to collapse
Yeah, let's pay more than a Win8 tablet to get a fourth of the usability (and I'm being generous with the iPad's usefulness)
I am in the same boat. I want a windows 8 tablet sooooooo much. I want to trade my laptop which weighs 7lbs for a nice, light tablet and I want to build a cheap pc for home gaming. However I don't want the Atoms. Not enough performance. And I wouldn't mind paying 600-700 bucks for an i3/i5 tablet right now, but I would hate myself if the Haswells came out with almost double the battery life and more performance for the same price.
So I've decided to be patient and work through this school year using my laptop. All the while saving up for my upgrade. Then at the end of next summer the Haswells should be on sale or cheaper. Or if they weren't as much of an improvement as we expected I can get the current tablets for dirt cheap. Next summer the surface pro will probably be around $500 at some places.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

Censura_Umbra said:
Yeah, let's pay more than a Win8 tablet to get a fourth of the usability (and I'm being generous with the iPad's usefulness)
I am in the same boat. I want a windows 8 tablet sooooooo much. I want to trade my laptop which weighs 7lbs for a nice, light tablet and I want to build a cheap pc for home gaming. However I don't want the Atoms. Not enough performance. And I wouldn't mind paying 600-700 bucks for an i3/i5 tablet right now, but I would hate myself if the Haswells came out with almost double the battery life and more performance for the same price.
So I've decided to be patient and work through this school year using my laptop. All the while saving up for my upgrade. Then at the end of next summer the Haswells should be on sale or cheaper. Or if they weren't as much of an improvement as we expected I can get the current tablets for dirt cheap. Next summer the surface pro will probably be around $500 at some places.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

veeman said:
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shows how much attention you've been paying.
Educational use, the RT has a full blown office suite, printing and usb storage, all useful and unavailable on an iPad. Well, office suites there are some but none even nearly match Microsoft office. Printing on RT is no different from a normal PC, no specialised printers required (my old school would have had to spend £40000 on printers if they were to replace with an iPad compatible model, the RT tablet a classmate bought in worked fine already). Usb storage, hah, you don't even get a usable file system let alone mass storage.
But we aren't using RT. We're talking windows 8, you know, that OS on your laptop or desktop. Intel atom, ivy bridge and haswell tablets as discussed here are all full blown x86 tablets and will run your full PC software which I would love to see you do on your iPad. That and many have active digitiser pens which are even better for nite taking than a capacitive screen which has no way to palm block (and I cannot contort my hand in such a way to write with a stylus on a capacitive screen without wearing gloves as a palm blocker).
So, cheaper and more useful for productivity which seems to be what was desired.

veeman said:
A fourth of the usability of a Windows RT tablet? Heck no. The iPad has way more stable, useful apps.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha more useful apps than every single "app" I use on my PC everyday? Like gimp and Photoshop? Sony Vegas? Real games like DmC and Call of Duty? Wow. What are you even doing in this part of the forum?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium

Censura_Umbra said:
Hahahaha more useful apps than every single "app" I use on my PC everyday? Like gimp and Photoshop? Sony Vegas? Real games like DmC and Call of Duty? Wow. What are you even doing in this part of the forum?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You aren't going to be able to run any of those apps on Windows RT tablet. And if you do go up to the x86 windows 8 tablet, unless you're willing to spend $1000+, you won't get a tablet that runs Photoshop or Call of Duty well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------
SixSixSevenSeven said:
shows how much attention you've been paying.
Educational use, the RT has a full blown office suite, printing and usb storage, all useful and unavailable on an iPad. Well, office suites there are some but none even nearly match Microsoft office. Printing on RT is no different from a normal PC, no specialised printers required (my old school would have had to spend £40000 on printers if they were to replace with an iPad compatible model, the RT tablet a classmate bought in worked fine already). Usb storage, hah, you don't even get a usable file system let alone mass storage.
But we aren't using RT. We're talking windows 8, you know, that OS on your laptop or desktop. Intel atom, ivy bridge and haswell tablets as discussed here are all full blown x86 tablets and will run your full PC software which I would love to see you do on your iPad. That and many have active digitiser pens which are even better for nite taking than a capacitive screen which has no way to palm block (and I cannot contort my hand in such a way to write with a stylus on a capacitive screen without wearing gloves as a palm blocker).
So, cheaper and more useful for productivity which seems to be what was desired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Apple has a very good Office Suite for iPads
2. Most universities will have printers that are compatible with wireless printing.
3. You seem to be misinformed as you can connect USB mass storage devices to iPads. (Though it does require jailbreak)
4. You said it's cheaper but for a tablet to have all the features you listed, the price point is close to $1000 or more.
5. Many medical fields write their software specifically for iPads. I know the hospital my mom works at does.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

veeman said:
You aren't going to be able to run any of those apps on Windows RT tablet. And if you do go up to the x86 windows 8 tablet, unless you're willing to spend $1000+, you won't get a tablet that runs Photoshop or Call of Duty well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------
1. Apple has a very good Office Suite for iPads
2. Most universities will have printers that are compatible with wireless printing.
3. You seem to be misinformed as you can connect USB mass storage devices to iPads. (Though it does require jailbreak)
4. You said it's cheaper but for a tablet to have all the features you listed, the price point is close to $1000 or more.
5. Many medical fields write their software specifically for iPads. I know the hospital my mom works at does.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did I say university anywhere? I'm not there until september. And besides, wireless printing does not mean an iPad will print to it, has to support some stupid apple protocol which although many do, most don't. And besides, in my old school the printing was not inherently wireless. The entire school was covered with a local network (a very large network which is also a rather convenient example of mixed topology within a network for computer science lessons), all printers were normal network printers. If you found a wireless access point then any windows device had no problem printing, if you had an ethernet connection then you could print fine from any normal computer too, a few of the printers in the school were even recognised by some android devices (although that was hit and miss), windows RT was able to print to them fine, iPads insisted that there was no printer present, even for the wireless one over in A11. There were only 2 iPad compatible printers in the building, 1 in the head masters office and one in my computer science room which my tutor bought himself.
The only office suites for iPads (pages is probably best and I presume the one you mean) are all far inferior to MS Office in terms of available functionality. Credit where credit is due, pages does work rather nicely as a basic office suite but leaves alot to be desired for things like .DOC support etc. Openoffice was able to open my 130 page coursework fine, MS Office was fine, Pages loaded a few pages, then gave up. The demo surface RT in john lewis, loaded it into MS office fine, no lag, nothing broken. Then on top of that, all RT tablets have office pre installed already, iPad its a seperate purchase. Same for windows 8 admittedly, but at least on windows 8 there are incredibly good free alternatives which are all fully fledged yet run fine on the atom processors of the CHEAPER tablets.
USB mass storage even on jailbroken iPads is buggy, its a native feature in Windows (for storage one can assume RT and 8 to be the same thing, as they do use the same feature set on this front). Windows supports more file systems, try using an NTFS drive on your iPad, or even on OSX for that matter, OSX has read only support, iPad apparently is hit and miss for that. You have to jailbreak which most users appear incompetent enough to not be able to do. Windows you get support for various forms of network storage too. Windows 8 you get FTP etc, with jailbreaks that is available on RT although not everyone wants to jailbreak (although those that need FTP are probably capable of jailbreaking). You get a normal file system presented on desktop, with apps in Start too, a proper file system, excellent, even android has that.
You will find that most establishments (including medical and educational, I know people from both backgrounds) who are migrating to iPads from existing windows solutions already have software for windows devices. Well, newsflash, a full windows 8 tablet will run these systems no porting required. But this is a hugely irrelevant point as we are not discussing the medical profession. In most cases these businesses are having to write their new shiny iPad apps from scratch, well if they are writing new software anyway they can just as easily write it for android or windows Start, so that further nullifies your point.
And no, a Asus vivotab smart costs less than an iPad. And does what needs to be done. Photoshop, devil may cry and call of duty were not on the criteria list, he said note taking and that he specifically is not gaming. Another newsflash, photoshop actually runs on the atom surprisingly well, sure your not going to be editing 500 megapixel images and applying 42 filters to it and having them done in 1 second, but quickly touching up the contrast on a 5mp phone photo is well within its abilities, more than that is but thats another null point as thats not a criteria so it doesnt matter.
I understand you want to defend your over-priced purchase but if your going to slate a windows tablet, use actual or relevant facts.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Did I say university anywhere? I'm not there until september. And besides, wireless printing does not mean an iPad will print to it, has to support some stupid apple protocol which although many do, most don't. And besides, in my old school the printing was not inherently wireless. The entire school was covered with a local network (a very large network which is also a rather convenient example of mixed topology within a network for computer science lessons), all printers were normal network printers. If you found a wireless access point then any windows device had no problem printing, if you had an ethernet connection then you could print fine from any normal computer too, a few of the printers in the school were even recognised by some android devices (although that was hit and miss), windows RT was able to print to them fine, iPads insisted that there was no printer present, even for the wireless one over in A11. There were only 2 iPad compatible printers in the building, 1 in the head masters office and one in my computer science room which my tutor bought himself.
The only office suites for iPads (pages is probably best and I presume the one you mean) are all far inferior to MS Office in terms of available functionality. Credit where credit is due, pages does work rather nicely as a basic office suite but leaves alot to be desired for things like .DOC support etc. Openoffice was able to open my 130 page coursework fine, MS Office was fine, Pages loaded a few pages, then gave up. The demo surface RT in john lewis, loaded it into MS office fine, no lag, nothing broken. Then on top of that, all RT tablets have office pre installed already, iPad its a seperate purchase. Same for windows 8 admittedly, but at least on windows 8 there are incredibly good free alternatives which are all fully fledged yet run fine on the atom processors of the CHEAPER tablets.
USB mass storage even on jailbroken iPads is buggy, its a native feature in Windows (for storage one can assume RT and 8 to be the same thing, as they do use the same feature set on this front). Windows supports more file systems, try using an NTFS drive on your iPad, or even on OSX for that matter, OSX has read only support, iPad apparently is hit and miss for that. You have to jailbreak which most users appear incompetent enough to not be able to do. Windows you get support for various forms of network storage too. Windows 8 you get FTP etc, with jailbreaks that is available on RT although not everyone wants to jailbreak (although those that need FTP are probably capable of jailbreaking). You get a normal file system presented on desktop, with apps in Start too, a proper file system, excellent, even android has that.
You will find that most establishments (including medical and educational, I know people from both backgrounds) who are migrating to iPads from existing windows solutions already have software for windows devices. Well, newsflash, a full windows 8 tablet will run these systems no porting required. But this is a hugely irrelevant point as we are not discussing the medical profession. In most cases these businesses are having to write their new shiny iPad apps from scratch, well if they are writing new software anyway they can just as easily write it for android or windows Start, so that further nullifies your point.
And no, a Asus vivotab smart costs less than an iPad. And does what needs to be done. Photoshop, devil may cry and call of duty were not on the criteria list, he said note taking and that he specifically is not gaming. Another newsflash, photoshop actually runs on the atom surprisingly well, sure your not going to be editing 500 megapixel images and applying 42 filters to it and having them done in 1 second, but quickly touching up the contrast on a 5mp phone photo is well within its abilities, more than that is but thats another null point as thats not a criteria so it doesnt matter.
I understand you want to defend your over-priced purchase but if your going to slate a windows tablet, use actual or relevant facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually don't have an iPad. My mom, however does have an iPad that was given to her by her work.
The Asus vivopad does not have a digitizer (which you were saying is a big plus on Win8 tabs) And according to a review I just read, it lags once a few apps are open so I doubt a resource hungry application like Photoshop will even run on it. I believe the comment about gaming and Photoshop were in response to someone else.
But the problem is that the medical companies aren't moving to Android because of security issues, build quality, and reliability.
USB mass storage works fine on the iPad. My mom uses it to type her papers. (A lot of which are well over 130 pages) Also I was not talking about you when I mentioned university. I assumed that the person I originally asked to consider an iPad was moving on to higher education. There are printing apps that allow you to print to almost every printer as well as accessories for USB only printers.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

So going back to the original question and ignoring iPads...
I would say that you should wait for Haswell. It's literally right around the corner and you will get much better performance than Atom currently offers with the same, if not better, battery life. Also keep in mind that Intel just announced that Atom will be released with the newest architecture AFTER Haswell, meaning that the current generation is already very obsolete.

needspractice said:
I was wondering if anyone knew of the latest or best phone that has the greatest ROM rooting following at the moment greater than the Galaxy Nexus?
I have a Galaxy Nexus right now and its great but I am just bored with it. I would like to upgrade. The only problem is that I use [GNEX TOOLKIT V11.1.0] Drivers, Backup, Unlock, Root, Recovery, Flash + MORE [SPRINT] which is the best tool around.
I was wondering if there are tools like this or better for other newer phones that I may upgrade to or should I just stay with my Nexus for while?
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I'm wondering: WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ASKING IN THIS THREAD.

A nexus 10 can help me?

I owe a nexus 4 and also owe laptop and desktop pc. Is the nexus 10 gonna help me?
First of all I want it since in august I'll start university so it will help for books on pdf, taking notes and since I'll enter to computer sciences I expect to use it for others things that I'll reach on school.
But I don't really know what is having a tablet, maybe I can do it all with a laptop but sometimes I think watching movies, comics, books, gaming and surfing Web is enough + utilities on school for getting it.
Any advice?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

Nethojs29 said:
I owe a nexus 4 and also owe laptop and desktop pc. Is the nexus 10 gonna help me?
First of all I want it since in august I'll start university so it will help for books on pdf, taking notes and since I'll enter to computer sciences I expect to use it for others things that I'll reach on school.
But I don't really know what is having a tablet, maybe I can do it all with a laptop but sometimes I think watching movies, comics, books, gaming and surfing Web is enough + utilities on school for getting it.
Any advice?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
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I've got a beastly desktop, laptop, and a decent phone. The tablet goes with me to stores and such so I can look things up on the go, or to work (I'm a teacher) so that I can take attendance on it. Its much more mobile than a laptop while providing, with the right apps. most of the functionality.

I would wait to see what the next galaxy note tablet is going to be. You could use a bluetooth keyboard if you'd rather type your notes and use the spen if you need to jot down formulas or charts.
If you have a newer laptop, I wouldn't recommend getting a regular tablet like the nexus 10 if you want it for school.
Me personally, I have a powerful desktop with two monitors for my main bulk of school work at home. I bring a netbook to class for notes (I download the PowerPoint's and convert them to PDF. Using acrobat pro, I can type notes just like if I were writing on the print out). The netbook is a bit old and weak but gets the job done for now.
With something like the galaxy note, you can have everything consolidated on your tablet(PDFs, PowerPoint's,hand written notes, types notes, ebooks ect) all in a compact device. Then use your desktop for more productive things and you could probably sell your laptop.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

Nethojs29 said:
I owe a nexus 4 and also owe laptop and desktop pc. Is the nexus 10 gonna help me?
First of all I want it since in august I'll start university so it will help for books on pdf, taking notes and since I'll enter to computer sciences I expect to use it for others things that I'll reach on school.
But I don't really know what is having a tablet, maybe I can do it all with a laptop but sometimes I think watching movies, comics, books, gaming and surfing Web is enough + utilities on school for getting it.
Any advice?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Personally, I don't find tablets with (solely) capacitive touch screens to be useful for notetaking. They aren't accurate enough to take down diagrams and formulas much better than pen and paper. In fact, the best solution I've found has been using a LiveScribe pen to import those kinds of information into OneNote. On the other hand, if you've got any professors who are enamored of open-source formats like PDF, tablets are a great way to read on the go, and for that purpose I highly recommend them.
They're also great for most of what you named, but importantly tablets can go into "tighter" places. Your dorm room bed, a couch, or some other random place on campus are good candidates. If you've got a small bag, they're also one of those things you can toss in as a "just in case" if you need to do something your phone is unsuitable for, but don't want to bring your laptop for.
I'd recommend honestly looking into a Windows convertible, or, if you don't like the big M, go for an active-digitizer tablet. That basically means the Note at this point, unless you go hunting for one of Lenovo's offerings.
The Nexus 10 is a great tablet though, so buy with confidence if you feel a tablet is for you.

Nethojs29 said:
I owe a nexus 4 and also owe laptop and desktop pc. Is the nexus 10 gonna help me?
First of all I want it since in august I'll start university so it will help for books on pdf, taking notes and since I'll enter to computer sciences I expect to use it for others things that I'll reach on school.
But I don't really know what is having a tablet, maybe I can do it all with a laptop but sometimes I think watching movies, comics, books, gaming and surfing Web is enough + utilities on school for getting it.
Any advice?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
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This hits it on the head:
Rirere said:
They're also great for most of what you named, but importantly tablets can go into "tighter" places. Your dorm room bed, a couch, or some other random place on campus are good candidates. If you've got a small bag, they're also one of those things you can toss in as a "just in case" if you need to do something your phone is unsuitable for, but don't want to bring your laptop for.
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I only use my tablet around the house and it's perfect for the living room or the bed, when I don't want to carry my ultrabook with its superfluous keyboard with me. The ultrabook is pretty light, a little less than 3 lbs, but the Nexus 10 is less than half that at 1.33 lbs. I can have a nice big, high-res screen with me at all times, one that isn't as heavy as lugging my ultrabook around.
With a tablet, you too can have a computer at your fingertips at all times! :victory:
That said, I agree with Sher and Rirere that the Nexus 10 may not be the best for writing with a stylus, though I haven't tried it. I'd guess the Note 10 would be better for that, since it has a digitizer built in. I always suggest that you try these devices out in a store before buying. I don't think an Android tablet will help you in computer science classes either, as they probably don't do anything with Android, plus you'll need a stand to keep the tablet up and a bluetooth keyboard to get any serious typing done. All the other content consumption stuff you mentioned is perfect on a tablet though.
The fundamental question is whether you value having a high-res computer with you in more places, because it is more portable than a laptop but with a bigger screen than a smartphone, albeit a computer that isn't that easy to type on unless you get a bluetooth keyboard also.

I have a Nexus 10, a Kindle, a S4 and a good/average laptop, I can tell you that for what you want the Nexus is amazing, if you want to watch a movie on it you'll see how amazing the screen is, surfing the Web is great too, and Android is with some top games, so you can enjoy it easily. If you most want to read comics and books I'd recommend you a Kindle (not the tablet), which is really the best option. Nexus 4 is already a good cellphone, but there are things that after you get hands on a tablet you see how easily they can be.
About school now. Formulas and such has no better companion than pen and paper, I already played a little with a Note 10 on a store, and it's great to handwrite, but I still think that for my math counts using a paper is the best option. However about the computer classes you can use it! Search on amazon for a case with keyboard and there is one which I really like (and have), which is so good that I typed my fanfictions on it, also I used to learn java on my Xoom with an app called "Droid Edit", which is a text editor with syntax highlight, then I installed Terminal IDE and had compiler and everything ready to learn. Guess what? It worked finely !"
And at least, you can install Linux distros on it, so you can get some more things to be done! And also it works greatly .
Hope it helps
~Lord
"This Story Ends Where It Began" - Octavarium (Dream Theater)
Sent from my GT-I9505

Here's another long response:
I would try and wait till the end of summer to make your decision. Toshiba has just announced three tablets - one lower end tablet, a 2560x1600 Tegra 4 tablet and another identical one, but with a wacom digitizer. Asus has a new 2560x1600 Infinity Transformer also with a Tegra 4. HP has there x2 android tablet coming out which didn't look too bad. Most of these are due for release in Q3 of this year. And on top of it, Samsung is holding a "Galaxy and Ativ" event on the 20th. Ativ will be a Windows device and Galaxy is an android device. Besides the Galaxy camera 2, no one really knows what to expect. Hopefully a new note tablet with better resolution, cause the current resolution is a deal breaker for a lot of people.
The Nexus ten is now a good 7 months old, although will probably be better priced than all of the above. The Tegra 4 could be great, but also could be terrible. I enjoyed my Nexus 10 when I had it earlier this year, but I think there are much better options for a school tablet coming out.
Also, I believe Intel is releasing there updated Atom processor (what Netbooks and lower range windows tabs use) towards the end of the year and is supposed to have greatly improved graphics, power, and battery life. Some of the current lower end Windows tablets run full windows 8 (like the Ativ 500T and also has a wacom digitizer for about $550) and they aren't terrible, though can be a bit sluggish. There battery life is also comparable to an android tablet.
Lastly, for school, a windows tablet may be a better choice since you won't have any compatibility issues like with android browsers. If your teacher uses online problems, demos, or chat rooms, you could run into issues running these things. I'm leaning slightly more towards Windows at the moment just for those reasons, but it all depends on how these products compare. If the android tablet is much smoother and has better battery life for 2/3 of the price, I'll just wait to get home to do something not compatible.
I've been in the same boat looking for something for school and my netbook is holding me off till the new products are released. I would recommend doing the same with your laptop, unless you can't afford more than the $400 for the Nexus 10.

Sher The Love said:
Here's another long response:
I would try and wait till the end of summer to make your decision. Toshiba has just announced three tablets - one lower end tablet, a 2560x1600 Tegra 4 tablet and another identical one, but with a wacom digitizer. Asus has a new 2560x1600 Infinity Transformer also with a Tegra 4. HP has there x2 android tablet coming out which didn't look too bad. Most of these are due for release in Q3 of this year. And on top of it, Samsung is holding a "Galaxy and Ativ" event on the 20th. Ativ will be a Windows device and Galaxy is an android device. Besides the Galaxy camera 2, no one really knows what to expect. Hopefully a new note tablet with better resolution, cause the current resolution is a deal breaker for a lot of people.
The Nexus ten is now a good 7 months old, although will probably be better priced than all of the above. The Tegra 4 could be great, but also could be terrible. I enjoyed my Nexus 10 when I had it earlier this year, but I think there are much better options for a school tablet coming out.
Also, I believe Intel is releasing there updated Atom processor (what Netbooks and lower range windows tabs use) towards the end of the year and is supposed to have greatly improved graphics, power, and battery life. Some of the current lower end Windows tablets run full windows 8 (like the Ativ 500T and also has a wacom digitizer for about $550) and they aren't terrible, though can be a bit sluggish. There battery life is also comparable to an android tablet.
Lastly, for school, a windows tablet may be a better choice since you won't have any compatibility issues like with android browsers. If your teacher uses online problems, demos, or chat rooms, you could run into issues running these things. I'm leaning slightly more towards Windows at the moment just for those reasons, but it all depends on how these products compare. If the android tablet is much smoother and has better battery life for 2/3 of the price, I'll just wait to get home to do something not compatible.
I've been in the same boat looking for something for school and my netbook is holding me off till the new products are released. I would recommend doing the same with your laptop, unless you can't afford more than the $400 for the Nexus 10.
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I honestl yplan to hold on to the N10 until December 2014 and THEN upgrade, since I dropped the $500 on the 32GB model.

dibblebill said:
I honestl yplan to hold on to the N10 until December 2014 and THEN upgrade, since I dropped the $500 on the 32GB model.
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How does the Nexus 10 compare to a Nook HD+?

dalcowboys1993 said:
How does the Nexus 10 compare to a Nook HD+?
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Way above it in every way, so far as I know, as well as more expensive.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app

dibblebill said:
Way above it in every way, so far as I know, as well as more expensive.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
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If you don't mind hacking it up though, the Nook HD+ looks like a fun little investment to slap somewhere (like a wall or something as a control panel). It may not make the best tablet but the hardware is good.
+1 for the people recommending paper/pencil. I can't do formulas another way. OP however might want to look into the LiveScribe Sky and a tablet (or use their PC); I believe I saw an ad somewhere showing off live, instant syncing from paper to tablet, which I'll have to look into myself (got a LiveScribe Echo as a work bonus, so I'm sticking with that for the moment).
It's not just a question of having an active digitizer; while the Note pen will wow in stores, writing with a stylus for any duration of time can quickly become, well, annoying. Glass just doesn't have the same tactile feel that a good pen on paper will, you'll get the "clicking" sounds from contact, and you could generally be doing something a lot more useful with your electronic device (like typing bullet points) than scrawling into it with a digitizer.
Unless, of course, by tablet, we're talking about a Wacom drawing pad.

Rirere said:
If you don't mind hacking it up though, the Nook HD+ looks like a fun little investment to slap somewhere (like a wall or something as a control panel). It may not make the best tablet but the hardware is good.
+1 for the people recommending paper/pencil. I can't do formulas another way. OP however might want to look into the LiveScribe Sky and a tablet (or use their PC); I believe I saw an ad somewhere showing off live, instant syncing from paper to tablet, which I'll have to look into myself (got a LiveScribe Echo as a work bonus, so I'm sticking with that for the moment).
It's not just a question of having an active digitizer; while the Note pen will wow in stores, writing with a stylus for any duration of time can quickly become, well, annoying. Glass just doesn't have the same tactile feel that a good pen on paper will, you'll get the "clicking" sounds from contact, and you could generally be doing something a lot more useful with your electronic device (like typing bullet points) than scrawling into it with a digitizer.
Unless, of course, by tablet, we're talking about a Wacom drawing pad.
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Everyone will of course have their preferences, so I'm not trying to argue right or wrong. However, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ATo3ohdwok has certainly influenced me to getting something with a wacom digitizer. She has some other videos showing note taking as well. I hate having a lot of printouts with notes on them. I also don't like typing notes on a computer but then having to draw out charts and math examples on a separate piece of paper. I'd rather have a device I can carry around almost anywhere with great battery life where everything in consolidated. It's also possible to sync to dropbox so you can get the notes on your phone(in PDF, not SNOTE format). Imagine staying on campus for whatever reason and wanting to do work for a class that you didn't bring your notes or text for. You could have everything in your Note tablet to include general handwritten notes.
Also, the note tablet comes with two different tips. One plastic that will feel like super smooth writing on glass and one rubber that has some drag to it that doesn't make "clicking" noises. I would prefer real pen and paper as well mostly because its what I'm used to, but I really like the idea of consolidating everything into one device backed up to the cloud that I can get anywhere. I'm currently doing it with powerpoint notes in dropbox and typed notes in Evernote, but unless I scan or take pictures, I can't get anything I hand write somewhere else.
Edit: I just looked up the Livescribe pen. That is pretty neat. I feel like I'd lose it though. I will continue looking into that as another option.