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Hi,
How to have a finger mouse like omnia on Diamon or Touch Pro?
Lele.
i would like to see that on diamond as well as u do !!
I had the Samsung Epix which is the Omnia with a hard-keyboard.
The fingermouse was AWESOME for navigating the OS. After a while you learn to "double-fist" it. I would use one thumb to work the optical sensor while the pointer-finger on my other hand for scroll-flicking, some clicking, press-n-hold menu, and close button.
Being able to use 2 hands really helps alot especially since our screens can not take multiple screen inputs at once. Cool thing is that the touchpad is multitouch capable.
player911 said:
I had the Samsung Epix which is the Omnia with a hard-keyboard.
The fingermouse was AWESOME for navigating the OS. After a while you learn to "double-fist" it. I would use one thumb to work the optical sensor while the pointer-finger on my other hand for scroll-flicking, some clicking, press-n-hold menu, and close button.
Being able to use 2 hands really helps alot especially since our screens can not take multiple screen inputs at once. Cool thing is that the touchpad is multitouch capable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! I wish someone would make the touchpad a mouse. Or allow us to use it in games or something.
There is a piece of mouse software floating around.. Have tried it but cannot remember the name...
Google might be your friend.
How was the mouse software you tried?
theirs "fake mouse" i think it's called, it's free but personally not very good
the one i use and love is "VirtuaMouse" you can adjust the size of the curser to extra small so it is amazing in remote desktop
you can probably find a "trial" if you look around
otherwise just check their site and i think they have an official one there
Everywhere is announced the HD is great because of its multimedia functions.
For myself I have NO USE for multimedia (except taking good pictures for my work). What I need is:
a) a big screen for reading email, html email and so on
b) a big screen for my pocket office excel sheets (the more row/column I can see the better)
c) a touch keyboard not too small
d) a slim and compact device (I think that this eliminates devices with phisical keyboard)
e) a device that fits comfortably in your pocket: doesn't weight "a lot"
f) the best quality possible for pictures, the ideal would be that it can take pictures of documents and that later you are able to actually read them, looking at the picture taken
g) gps included
h) EXCELLENT battery consumption: so that with a "normal" use you can EASILY arrive at night without the need of having chargers all over (car/house/office)
In your opinion is the Touch HD good for the purpose? Maybe something else on the market is better?
Thanks for any comment.
P.S. so far I had Qtek 1010, 2020, Universal (in my opinion the WORST phone I had because of its bulky size and short battery life), Tytn, Cruise.
It's absolutely definitely the best thing you can buy for business if you don't need a qwerty keyboard.
As you mentioned before it has a big screen for web, email and office and it's still slim and light enough to fit in your pocket.
Windows Mobile is the only OS to choose for business (besides Blackberry) and the HD has the second best camera in a Windows Mobile phone which is absolutely sufficient for taking pictures of documents.
There's no better device (if you don't need a querty keyboard).
Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol
You can disable TouchFlo if you don't linke it but I think it's the best interface IMHO even better than the iPhone.
Eriol said:
Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device"
The Touchflo Homescreen shows exactly that. and if you scroll down to switch to the advanced home screen, the clock becomes smaller and the list bigger, so you will see even more appointments. Alsom the screen on the X1 is smaller and as far as i have seen, you will have to use the stylus quite often In that case, the Touch HD is much better. The bigger Screen is also good when working on excel sheets and more. Also, the X1 is said to be a bit laggy sometimes when switching to landscape mode and back. I really recommend that you watch some videos about the interface.
oh and: there is a new "customize tab" feature on the HD. so you may be able to delete tabs and rearrange them
its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...
dazza9075 said:
its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption
Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli
calli said:
Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments wiil be greatly appreciated
Calli
I have a bluetooth keyboard with my current PDA and will pass this onto the HD when it arrives. It is (for me) ideal, the phone is that bit smaller and I have almost full full-size keyboard when I need too.
claudioita said:
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering the same since i heard of this device. But, i will definitly get this phone. I often heard that the diamond had a very bad battery life, but on the other hand, i have got an LG Viewty at the moment. This phone is said to have a very very bad battery. people even said it only lasts around 2 days without doing that much. many people wrote a bad review about this on amazon.
strangely, i use the viewty on a daily basis, for checking mails and writing sms or doing calls. so i even use hsdpa at least 2 or three times a day. and i can get a battery life of around a week!
But ofcourse, if i keep running on hsdpa the whole day, by browsing the net for hours for example i get have to plug it in the next day.
i really think that many people just use their mobilephones without ever thinking how much battery life is trained away, when they use gps, wlan and more the whole day. i am pretty sure that, with a normal usage, i can at least get a week or more out of the HD, as it has a better battery and higher standby and usage time as my viewty has got now.
btw, as you mentioned bluetooth keyboards.
are there any good devices out there? can you recommend some?
i am planning to use my Dinovo Mini for my Touch HD (i know it works) but maybe there are better keyboards out there
Business usability of soft keyboard
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol
Eriol said:
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos
Raziel1 said:
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol
Eriol said:
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think so. all the details are out there since weeks. full hardware specs and all the features. there are many videos which show the keyboard and explain it a bit. but as it is the same as on the diamond or touch pro, theres no real change. i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.
Raziel1 said:
... i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol
Eriol said:
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window
Raziel1 said:
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, understand ... so, installing Gsen and probably using a bluetooth keyboard if neccessary will make this device a good business solution (lack of TV-Out is not an issues to me as my experience is that in case of a presentation there will always be someone with a notebook around).
Eriol
Some specs show that there is a TV out. Far more impressive doing a presentation using your PDA though. I realy think that a software and a protable Stowaway keyboard is the way to go.
Calli
Hi all,
I just had an idea: I was wondering, if it is possible to connect the X1 either by bluetooth, WLAN or USB to the PC and use the X1 keyboard as a keyboard for the PC.
I was also thinking, that the touchscreen could be used as a kind of touchpad (like on notebooks) to control the mouse pointer on a connected PC.
So I was searching the Internet if anybody wrote a software that can just do this, but had no luck. So my question is: Does anybody know a software that can just do this?
Cheers,
foo
P.S.: I know there are some remote controls for winamp & co but this is not what I'm looking for. Actually I'd like to have something like this for a much more smaller amount of money by using my xperia and a special software.
foo said:
Hi all,
I just had an idea: I was wondering, if it is possible to connect the X1 either by bluetooth, WLAN or USB to the PC and use the X1 keyboard as a keyboard for the PC.
I was also thinking, that the touchscreen could be used as a kind of touchpad (like on notebooks) to control the mouse pointer on a connected PC.
So I was searching the Internet if anybody wrote a software that can just do this, but had no luck. So my question is: Does anybody know a software that can just do this?
Cheers,
foo
P.S.: I know there are some remote controls for winamp & co but this is not what I'm looking for. Actually I'd like to have something like this for a much more smaller amount of money by using my xperia and a special software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's something on this very forum for a VERY small amount of money - all you have to do is learn how to search and it's yours. I'll even give you a clue - it' in the "Development & Hacking" section.
Go here http://t2remotetouch.blogspot.com
Is there a thing like that that use bluetooth only? like a usual bluetooth keyboard or mouse.
like that: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/features/bluetooth.mspx
Thanks kostis60, this goes in the right direction, though it lacks the touchpad feature which I'd need really badly. This app is more like "Windows Remote Desktop" or VNC.
akp99 said:
There's something on this very forum for a VERY small amount of money - all you have to do is learn how to search and it's yours. I'll even give you a clue - it' in the "Development & Hacking" section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you also referring to the application mentioned by kostis60 or is there something else?
foo said:
Thanks kostis60, this goes in the right direction, though it lacks the touchpad feature which I'd need really badly. This app is more like "Windows Remote Desktop" or VNC.
Are you also referring to the application mentioned by kostis60 or is there something else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nueUSBkeyboard is what I use - nt bothered about track pad - I think there is something that works with this but not sure of name.
And there's a paid for prg that works over bluetooth aswell but again its name slips my mind
Check out Pebbles. It allows controlling of the PC via Touchpad and Keyboard (Hard- and Softwarekeyboard). It is for free and works via Bluetooth and Wifi.
Nice Gadget but a wireless mouse and keyboard is more convenient from my perspective.
You could also use MS Remote Desktop Client to atke remote control of your PC.
Also LogMeIn works even better.
I think he is more looking for software to make the device a mouse/keyboard, not remote desktop software. These are two very different things. +1 for nueUSBkeyboard though.
Mobileremote by mobilesrc is what you are looking for.
Works like a charm for me.
http://www.mobilesrc.com/MobileRemote.aspx
mmaaxxii said:
Mobileremote by mobilesrc is what you are looking for.
Works like a charm for me.
http://www.mobilesrc.com/MobileRemote.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES! That is exactly what I was looking for!
Great! Thanks
MobileSRC MobileRemote Xperia Issues
Okay, is it just me or is anybody else having the following issue with the Xperia keyboard when using MobileSRC MobileRemote..?
When I use the keyboard all of the 'Blue' characters are displayed rather than the letters. The only button that also has a 'Blue' character assigned to it which works correctly is 'Q'.
The buttons without 'Blue' characters (A, S, D, F, G, @, Z, X, C, V, RETURN, TAB, DEL) work fine.
'W' gives me ", 'E' gives me /, 'R' gives me & and so on.
Shift doesn't work either.
I've tried pressing the blue button, Sym and everything else but no change.
Any ideas?
Regards
Sonny
sonnysoul said:
Okay, is it just me or is anybody else having the following issue with the Xperia keyboard when using MobileSRC MobileRemote..?
When I use the keyboard all of the 'Blue' characters are displayed rather than the letters. The only button that also has a 'Blue' character assigned to it which works correctly is 'Q'.
The buttons without 'Blue' characters (A, S, D, F, G, @, Z, X, C, V, RETURN, TAB, DEL) work fine.
'W' gives me ", 'E' gives me /, 'R' gives me & and so on.
Shift doesn't work either.
I've tried pressing the blue button, Sym and everything else but no change.
Any ideas?
Regards
Sonny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same issue, but the developer announced a new bugfix release in the next couple of weeks also including some bugfixes for hardware keyboards.
I had tried this application before. At that time, it didn't yet work well with the X1. Now, however, it's getting really close to being fully functional.. nice!
Current issues I find annoying:
- HW keyboard support (always in FN mode)
- Touchpad can't go fullscreen (except for LMB and RMB ofc)
- Connecting it is a bit awkward (though should be full auto in retail version)
I'll soon be buying a media center with my TV. I'm hoping I can get my X1 to be the HID. Little more fixes and this app will do all I need.
Angelusz said:
- Connecting it is a bit awkward (though should be full auto in retail version)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought the application and connecting works like a charm.
As I need the touchpad functionality most of the time, I bought it even with the keyboard problem - still worth the money for me
In case I have to enter something, I switch to the software keyboard.
try this
sailing clicker -
does exactly what you ask...with extra media player functions etc.
http://www.salling.com/clicker/windows/
foo said:
I bought the application and connecting works like a charm.
As I need the touchpad functionality most of the time, I bought it even with the keyboard problem - still worth the money for me
In case I have to enter something, I switch to the software keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aye, I'll be waiting for a proper release, might buy it then.
Anyone here is watching CES 2012 on facebook?
Right now that lady is demo-ing the Windows 8 Tablet, i like the original idea about Windows 8 is bringing Metro UI to Desktop, but i think the marketplace / apps for Desktop is something stupid to me.
I think Microsoft has gone too far and almost completely forgotten about PC hardcore User. Ebay apps when we have IE/Firefox/Chrome for Ebay.com?
Maybe i am wrong over here, because until now i have no clue about the idea behind Marketplace for PC.
What do you guys think?
i think such idea of app market on the W8 is for the tablet, that is ok though, as long as they figure out away to port win32 software to run on apps, i would be the first one to get in line to get the tablet, other than that, i am good with my asus transformer
Strike_Eagle said:
Anyone here is watching CES 2012 on facebook?
Right now that lady is demo-ing the Windows 8 Tablet, i like the original idea about Windows 8 is bringing Metro UI to Desktop, but i think the marketplace / apps for Desktop is something stupid to me.
I think Microsoft has gone too far and almost completely forgotten about PC hardcore User. Ebay apps when we have IE/Firefox/Chrome for Ebay.com?
Maybe i am wrong over here, because until now i have no clue about the idea behind Marketplace for PC.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For tablets, maybe netbooks with a little screen, its a good OS. But... on a 24 inch Monitor? Serious, I tested the preview and in Metro the handling with mouse and keyboards sucks! It even interrups the productivity flow in the "desktop app". If I am on the classic desktop and want to open a programm from the start menu: Why do I have to go back to the start screen and type.
This is so unintuitive and doesn't suit to the desktop design at all...
the thing is, Microsoft has focus more on the Tablet than our - PC user.
You can see almost everything on the Keynote of Steve on CES 2012 (which has just ended ) is focus on the mobility of the technology nowday.
Tablet with ARM/ x64 / x86 , nVIDIA Tegra are all cool. But hand down, they didn't notice anything about the original idea of PC , yes, when i mean the mouse and the keyboard.
The idea behind Marketplace for Windows 8 PC is something still new. And i hope, the marketplace is like a place where we can search all kind of applications for PC around the web without having google/bing it around.
Don't get me wrong , i am a Microsoft fan and i own a Windows Phone.
Strike_Eagle said:
The idea behind Marketplace for Windows 8 PC is something still new. And i hope, the marketplace is like a place where we can search all kind of applications for PC around the web without having google/bing it around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats the point! The marketplace is just for Metro apps and I don't understand why I should use an app if I have a internetbrowser (ebay, etc). The apps are optimized for small screens so it's just annoying to swipe with your mouse or use some strange shortcuts to show up the menu bar if you have enough space to display everything you need.
The link for whoever missed the keynote:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/ces/liveevent.aspx
(need silverlight)
^
Yes. The thing is, there is no point from moving to use an app to control the web-based service like Ebay or Amazon. I mean, if you have a touch screen, you would love to do that because i know that typing on the touch screen is such pain in the ass.
But with PC is different, a mouse and keyboard are far more advanced than a touch screen. We have been using our browser to do most stuffs, we don't need an app to do that. For example, i can have IE9 , and i can do most stuffs from betting on Ebay to buying stuffs on Amazon without having anything extra installed except for some flash plug-ins. So why choosing install many different apps and make your PC slower while you can get everything just by a click of a mouse on the icon of the browser?
Many people would say to me that if i don't like it then don't use it, but that isn't a point. It is fine that Microsoft try to make a buck over tablets , but they seem to be forgetting about PC user like us, i hear nothing about the original PC in the keynote except some new Laptops and Intel's new path for the future. That's why i am little bit disappointed.
CES is all about what is cool and hip today. Right now that is mobile devices so MS's CES pitch focuses on Windows 8. MS is leaving CES after this year so they can focus on getting the message they want out without having to follow the hot theme and control better the presentation of their message. You can expect that message to be heavily based around HTML 5 and web based apps to the detriment of those that develop windows apps.
I'm new to Windows 8 in general so be gentle...
(These are meant as general comments, not picking on you Strike_Eagle, you were just the last post I read.)
Strike_Eagle said:
The link for whoever missed the keynote:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/events/ces/liveevent.aspx
(need silverlight)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that, watching now!
^
Strike_Eagle said:
Yes. The thing is, there is no point from moving to use an app to control the web-based service like Ebay or Amazon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree completely here. I don't even use those types of apps on my Xoom, if its a browser based service or app, I just use the Xooms browser. It's a real browser, no need for an app.
Strike_Eagle said:
But with PC is different, a mouse and keyboard are far more advanced than a touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree a bit here, the way a touch screen is used is different than that of a mouse, it shouldn't be seen as a replacement for a mouse. Multi touch functions and gestures are what touch screen input excels at. However, emulating simple mouse input, navigating the screen or cursor, etc.. eh, not so much. I added a BT mouse to my Xoom and many things are MUCH faster using it rather than touching the screen, but some things are easier and faster using the touch screen.
Strike_Eagle said:
It is fine that Microsoft try to make a buck over tablets , but they seem to be forgetting about PC user like us <snip>.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see this as much more than MS looking to make a buck on tablets. As power of mobile devices increases, as "cloud" (I hate that term) storage becomes more prevalent, its going to be very important to have a seamless experience across devices. For example, I use Google Music and Chrome. No matter what device I'm on, Xoom, desktop, laptop, all of my playlists and bookmarks are the same. This is where I think MS is going with Windows 8, they're looking to have their OS be everywhere and work the same (or similar) no matter what device you're on. Or at least be flexible enough to do that.
FuturePrimitive said:
I disagree a bit here, the way a touch screen is used is different than that of a mouse, it shouldn't be seen as a replacement for a mouse. Multi touch functions and gestures are what touch screen input excels at. However, emulating simple mouse input, navigating the screen or cursor, etc.. eh, not so much. I added a BT mouse to my Xoom and many things are MUCH faster using it rather than touching the screen, but some things are easier and faster using the touch screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol no.
With multitouch you can zoom, rotate, roll and that's it, with a precision that is useless for most task but browser internet and catalog some photos.
For example, let's say that we have a picture of 2000x1500 and we want to select a square of 256x256... with multitouch you can't do that.
In fact, clicking a single link can become a tedious work of zoom then click.
FuturePrimitive said:
(These are meant as general comments, not picking on you Strike_Eagle, you were just the last post I read.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, don't need to worry about it, it is cool. Forum is a place for discussion, right?
FuturePrimitive said:
I disagree a bit here, the way a touch screen is used is different than that of a mouse, it shouldn't be seen as a replacement for a mouse. Multi touch functions and gestures are what touch screen input excels at. However, emulating simple mouse input, navigating the screen or cursor, etc.. eh, not so much. I added a BT mouse to my Xoom and many things are MUCH faster using it rather than touching the screen, but some things are easier and faster using the touch screen.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, i got your point man. Everything has its own advantage. Something which is so great to use the multi-touch. I never say that the multitouch would be a replacement for the mouse anytime soon. But my point, was like, Something which is designed for Multi-Touch might not be a great deal for mouse and keyboard.
the word "advanced" here , i mean , you can do more stuffs with a keyboard than a touch-screen, or the keyboard and mouse give you more advantages than the touch-screen give you. Don't get me wrong man, if you do photoshop , you would know that you can do stuffs with the picture by mouse and press the short cut on the keyboard for special effect at the sametime, which is can't be done by multi-touch, Because Multi-Touch is like a combination of mouse and keyboard , for the benifit of portable device.
But with Multi-Touch , you can also do stuffs that you would not ever archieve with a mouse. Well, you know what i mean, like drawing. But the limitation of technology nowday can't take that advantage *yet*. the screen is not that sensitive enough to make a perfect drawing like with Pencil and paper.
This agrument seem to be valid, keep it up man. , i don't hate multi-touch device, because i have myself a HTC Titan and probably a Windows 8 Tablet soon.
ok, you are a hardcore user, then just keep using the desktop. why are you mad that other people will get to use metro.
Tablets and apps are popular nowadays,so you cant ignore it. That is why windows 8 integrated metro. If you dont like it,you dont have to use it. Windows 8 desktop is bringing a bunch of new features as well. The OS is leaner and faster,and more secure.
Now i realized that we forgot about Kinect for PC... Are they trying to have us buy the kinect to use it for the metro UI on PC?
Strike_Eagle said:
Anyone here is watching CES 2012 on facebook?
Right now that lady is demo-ing the Windows 8 Tablet, i like the original idea about Windows 8 is bringing Metro UI to Desktop, but i think the marketplace / apps for Desktop is something stupid to me.
I think Microsoft has gone too far and almost completely forgotten about PC hardcore User. Ebay apps when we have IE/Firefox/Chrome for Ebay.com?
Maybe i am wrong over here, because until now i have no clue about the idea behind Marketplace for PC.
What do you guys think?
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I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU!
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Isn't the idea of Marketplace that it will have all types of Apps and full applications like Photoshop, office etc? Similar to the Mac App Store?
Hopefully this doesn't have much effect on the gaming industry, mainly shooters. First, they were dumb'd down for consoles, now they could be severely dumb'd down for Tablets. I shudder at the thought.
There will probably be plenty of crossovers from other touch platforms (iOS, Android), but it shouldn't affect the *real* games.
Blacklac said:
Hopefully this doesn't have much effect on the gaming industry, mainly shooters. First, they were dumb'd down for consoles, now they could be severely dumb'd down for Tablets. I shudder at the thought.
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Microsoft has something called " Windows PC Game Marketplace" *if i am not wrong* already.
I have heard about it, i have seen it (Operation Flashpoint : Red River) but i never used it. Valve's Steam is the solution most people looking for. Even Origin can't compare to Steam.
Strike_Eagle said:
Microsoft has something called " Windows PC Game Marketplace" *if i am not wrong* already.
I have heard about it, i have seen it (Operation Flashpoint : Red River) but i never used it. Valve's Steam is the solution most people looking for. Even Origin can't compare to Steam.
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"Games for Windows Live" I think is what you're referring to.
x ZackehSoul x said:
"Games for Windows Live" I think is what you're referring to.
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Yes, thanks for pointing that out.
I wonder if XNA games will play a large role in the Windows App store?
Despite some criticisms regarding its incredibly touch-centric user-interface that doesn't perform as well as a traditional desktop when using a standard mouse and keyboard, there will likely still come a time when Windows 8 is the only viable operating system for everyday use due to Windows' far superior application support by developers over Linux and Mac alternatives. Since versions after Windows 8 are likely still going to employ the touch-centric UI with Microsoft clearly determined to harken in the death of traditional computers in place of tablet/laptop hybrids, it seems to me that I may as well merely upgrade and become accustomed to the new user-interface. Whilst the discounted upgrade offer until the end of January also offers even further incentive to upgrade, the lack of an input method optimised for Windows 8 on my laptop is concerning and making me reluctant to do so.
I distinctly remember reading in articles a few months ago of purchasable styluses that also came included with a clip that attached to the top of a laptop's screen and, when using the stylus, it effectively turned said screen (so long as it was under 17 inches in size) into a touch-screen. Has anything become of these, because they seem very well-fit towards Windows 8 and the price for such a device is still likely to be much cheaper than purchasing a new laptop with a touch-screen or standalone touch-screen monitor?
Alternatively, as some of you have recommended, a mouse or touch-pad optimised for usage with Windows 8 may also prove a very viable alternative. The Logitech® Wireless Touchpad T650 is a really nice device that arguably even has benefits over even using any touch-screen, since you will not be subjected to fingerprints on your monitor from touching it all the time. However, I really do need something that still allows for traditional mouse input with a left-click and right-click simultaneously, which is needed for gaming. Any ideas of such a device, if any exists?
I've seen the same. It's one of those nice ideas that go fetal when facing commercial reality. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.
IMO the most practical way to use Metro on a non-touch system (whether laptop or desktop) is to have a good touchpad with updated drivers to allow edge-swiping. Much of Metro's functionality is from the edge swipes, and the other functions--pinch zoom, scroll, gestures, etc--are old hat. A touchpad isn't as intuitive as directly touching the screen, but it is ergonomically superior (you don't have to lift your arms up to the screen for every touch), and you don't have to deal with fingerprint city.
If your laptop's trackpad is of the throwaway variety, or if you have a desktop, would suggest a good external trackpad. Unfortunately, I have no firsthand experience with any, but a cursory search on Amazon yields this below, the Logitech T650. Looks good, but fairly expensive at $80. Assuming Win8 doesn't do a faceplant, I'm sure there'll be more like this.
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/195406/Logitech-Wireless-Touchpad-T650-Silver/
As e.mote said, a multi-touch trackpad is your best bet!
I have the T650 and it is a good, inexpensive, portable solution. Bonus - it uses Logitech's unifying driver, so you can also add a compatible Logitech mouse or trackpad and they will all work off the one usb dongle. (At the same time!)
But, in my opinion, the BEST solution is the Dell dell S2340T touch screen monitor. Yeah, it costs $550 more - but this is the experience you are looking for.
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DoogieDC said:
I have the T650 and it is a good, inexpensive, portable solution. Bonus - it uses Logitech's unifying driver, so you can also add a compatible Logitech mouse or trackpad and they will all work off the one usb dongle. (At the same time!)
But, in my opinion, the BEST solution is the Dell dell S2340T touch screen monitor. Yeah, it costs $550 more - but this is the experience you are looking for.
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Looks nice...I wasn't thinking about something like that at the time I made my reply.
I picked up the T650 from best buy to try it out. I'm returning it. Works as advertised but just isn't worth the $80.
Number one, they've got a software kink or two to work out (lags with double tap). I'm sure that'll be fixed, but.... eh. Two, the printed Logitech logo actually interferes with the input near the top of the device. Not a huge deal- hard to notice, but still. Three, no support for momentum. Four, something stained or smudged or... did something to the glass surface not an hour after I unboxed it. Doesn't seem to have hurt it at all, but I can't clean it off. The surface isn't incredibly fragile but it sure isn't going to stay pretty for long. Five, touchpads are generally inferior input devices. If you want an input device that is stationary, get one of the mice that has the ball you move with your thumb. The T650 is really sort of a gimmick device- I'd only recommend it as a low-profile/visually pleasing/easily-hidden remote input for a computer hooked up to a tv or similar scenario. Even then, I'd recommend a wiimote over this, if you know how to configure it of course. The T650 is zero configuration.
Honestly I have no issues using metro with a mouse on a desktop. Really, you're not disadvantaged or having to work around anything. Move the cursor up to the corner, move down a few pixels. Or Win+c / Win+tab on the keyboard. Right click and the context menu button certainly aren't disadvantaged (I've honestly never used that button before!). Actually using the mouse is better- it's faster to navigate the previews on the left than arbitrarily swiping through apps as with touch. As for closing an app- you don't need to. But if you must, alt+f4 works. Also I have no problems dragging down to close on my mouse or touchpad, though I would imagine that it could get annoying if you use a very low sensitivity setting. But you're doing it wrong if you do- a good rule of thumb for any input device is that the cursor should be at least 1:1 with the screen; you should be able to reach all corners of the monitor without having to readjust your hand (that is, reach every corner of the screen without lifting a finger on the touchpad, and without lifting a mouse). So the gesture should be easily done on mouse/touchpad with minimal effort.
Whilst I have yet to see a single review of the Logitech Wireless Touchpad or even hear of it prior to this thread, I absolutely love the idea of it and can easily see it as a solid replacement for the touch-screen on a Windows 8 machine. The problem is that I really do need a traditional mouse for playing games. Looks like I shall not be upgrading to Windows 8 then...
Sounds like what you're looking for is a touch mouse, ie one that allows 4-way touch scrolling plus Win8-specific gestures. Logitech has the T620 ($70) and MS has a whole suite of touch mice, although I think only the top-end MS Touch Mouse ($80) is Win8 optimized.
Logitech T620 (at 1:20 mark)
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/10/...-t650-touch-mouse-t620-zone-touch-mouse-t400/
Logitech T620 Win8 gestures
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/articles/win8-t620-gestures
MS Touch Mouse Win8 gestures
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/touch-mouse/3KJ-00001#windows-8
e.mote said:
Sounds like what you're looking for is a touch mouse, ie one that allows 4-way touch scrolling plus Win8-specific gestures. Logitech has the T620 ($70) and MS has a whole suite of touch mice, although I think only the top-end MS Touch Mouse ($80) is Win8 optimized.
Logitech T620 (at 1:20 mark)
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/10/...-t650-touch-mouse-t620-zone-touch-mouse-t400/
Logitech T620 Win8 gestures
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/articles/win8-t620-gestures
MS Touch Mouse Win8 gestures
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/touch-mouse/3KJ-00001#windows-8
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The two mice look, frankly, awful. The touch-pad is a very nice idea once you learn the shortcuts, but its performance in traditional applications that need a left and right click at the same time (such as games) is going to be poor. Thanks for the suggestions though.
I want a form of input for Windows 8 that either is, or closely mimicking that of, a touch-screen whilst still offering the traditional input that I need for games and also retaining a reasonable price. Until I can find such a thing, I shall never be upgrading to Windows 8.
Brad387 said:
Whilst I have yet to see a single review of the Logitech Wireless Touchpad or even hear of it prior to this thread, I absolutely love the idea of it and can easily see it as a solid replacement for the touch-screen on a Windows 8 machine. The problem is that I really do need a traditional mouse for playing games. Looks like I shall not be upgrading to Windows 8 then...
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Are you serious? I mean, if you don't have $40 to spare, fine. But your decision on whether or not to upgrade to a faster, slimmer version of windows is hanging on something so trivially stupid as, "I need to buy another device because I've convinced myself that touch input is the only way to use 8"! You do realize you can turn off anything that you think "requires touch"? Did you read my post, which mostly consisted of me explaining why it's stupid to think you need touch for any of it?
That touch mouse is ridiculously silly. Do you realize you could just buy a gaming mouse with extra buttons, then map all the "touch gestures" to each button? Basing your decision on something so incredibly arbitrary is... frustrating.
Touch input is *NOT REQUIRED*.
Get the Logitech G700 if you don't have a gaming mouse yet- honestly there is no other mouse comparable on the market (unless you need an MMO mouse, that's a different beast).
link68759 said:
Are you serious?
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Am I serious in that the lack of an input system I am comfortable with using for an operating system puts me off of said operating system? Absolutely. I have seen videos about using Windows 8 with traditional mice and, frankly, it looks a less than desirable experience. How you interact with an operating system, despite your strange reaction to my issues, are actually really important.
Sorry I edited a lot and didn't realize you already replied, go read my post again.
For the record, you can disable all the "touch" things and it behaves exactly like 7. In fact if you don't use metro at all, you don't even need to access the related metro commands... So I fail to see what the issue is.
Also, I assume you were watching videos of someone moaning about how excruciating it is. Self confirmation bias isn't research.
link68759 said:
Sorry I edited a lot and didn't realize you already replied, go read my post again.
For the record, you can disable all the "touch" things and it behaves exactly like 7. In fact if you don't use metro at all, you don't need to access the related metro commands... So I fail to see what the issue is.
Also, I assume you were watching videos of someone moaning about how excruciating it is. Self confirmation bias isn't research.
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I like the new Metro UI, but just feel that I may need a slightly better form of input. If I want the same Windows 7 UI, I'd just keep Windows 7.
There is a lot more to 8 than just the superficial UI additions, is my point. The under the hood improvements are very good and well worth snatching while 8 is still $40.
To name a few changes; generally faster and more optimized, uses less RAM, and the entire graphics subsystem has been rewritten, so when NVidia gets around to taking advantage of the new features with their drivers, we should see better gaming performance too.
link68759 said:
There is a lot more to 8 than just the superficial UI additions, is my point. The under the hood improvements are very good and well worth snatching while 8 is still $40.
To name a few changes; generally faster and more optimized, uses less RAM, and the entire graphics subsystem has been rewritten, so when NVidia gets around to taking advantage of the new features with their drivers, we should see better gaming performance too.
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My other worries are regarding drivers. I don't want to upgrade and lose drivers for my laptop, which would be a nightmare. Also, software support seems pitiful at the moment. Does Steam and iTunes work on Windows 8? Finally, do you need a Microsoft account to utilise Windows 8?
But, back on topic, I'd still rather just keep to Windows 7 unless I can actually enjoy the new UI. Windows 9, or whatever it is likely to be called, should be released next year as part of Microsoft's new annual upgrade plan for Windows and I will likely just get that or even the one after that. The performance increase might be there, but I haven't read of any performance increases on Windows 8 anywhere. "No UI = No New OS" is my policy here. I want the Metro UI, but a nice form of input with it.
All I need is a touch mouse that allows for all the otherwise touch-screen Windows 8 gestures, but still retains physical left and right mouse buttons for gaming. After that, I am sold so long as everything in terms of drivers and stuff checks out.
Brad387 said:
My other worries are regarding drivers. I don't want to upgrade and lose drivers for my laptop, which would be a nightmare. Also, software support seems pitiful at the moment. Does Steam and iTunes work on Windows 8? Finally, do you need a Microsoft account to utilise Windows 8?
But, back on topic, I'd still rather just keep to Windows 7 unless I can actually enjoy the new UI. Windows 9, or whatever it is likely to be called, should be released next year as part of Microsoft's new annual upgrade plan for Windows and I will likely just get that or even the one after that. The performance increase might be there, but I haven't read of any performance increases on Windows 8 anywhere. "No UI = No New OS" is my policy here. I want the Metro UI, but a nice form of input with it.
All I need is a touch mouse that allows for all the otherwise touch-screen Windows 8 gestures, but still retains physical left and right mouse buttons for gaming. After that, I am sold so long as everything in terms of drivers and stuff checks out.
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I am running Steam on W8 fine. I don't use iTunes, but there haven't been any complaints yet. Most games I have tried run on W8, with the exception of Command & Conquer Generals. Whats's this about the annual upgrade plan, by the way? Also trackpad drivers for Windows 8 have Windows 8 gestures built in (if it is a Synaptics trackpad you should have no issues). Finally, if you are worried about losing W7, you can just dual boot.
And fyi, I am not a fanboy. I would rather use Linux if I could, but until there is software and driver support for what I do, that is not going to happen.
JihadSquad said:
I am running Steam on W8 fine. I don't use iTunes, but there haven't been any complaints yet. Most games I have tried run on W8, with the exception of Command & Conquer Generals. Whats's this about the annual upgrade plan, by the way? Also trackpad drivers for Windows 8 have Windows 8 gestures built in (if it is a Synaptics trackpad you should have no issues). Finally, if you are worried about losing W7, you can just dual boot.
And fyi, I am not a fanboy. I would rather use Linux if I could, but until there is software and driver support for what I do, that is not going to happen.
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http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/28/3693368/windows-blue-update-low-cost
So, my trackpad built into my Acer which is a Synaptics will gain all the Windows 8 gestures?
Brad387 said:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/28/3693368/windows-blue-update-low-cost
So, my trackpad built into my Acer which is a Synaptics will gain all the Windows 8 gestures?
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If Acer has released drivers for it. My Thinkpad did not get drivers until about a month after RTM, but I would expect any decent manufacturer to have them out. If not, the generic Synaptics drivers work, but some trackpads may have issues.
If you are planning to dual boot the system, you may want to check this out first. Set it up in dual boot and see if everything works. If you are satisfied, you can install Pro over it. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/jj554510.aspx
Brad387 said:
My other worries are regarding drivers. I don't want to upgrade and lose drivers for my laptop, which would be a nightmare. Also, software support seems pitiful at the moment. Does Steam and iTunes work on Windows 8? Finally, do you need a Microsoft account to utilise Windows 8?
But, back on topic, I'd still rather just keep to Windows 7 unless I can actually enjoy the new UI. Windows 9, or whatever it is likely to be called, should be released next year as part of Microsoft's new annual upgrade plan for Windows and I will likely just get that or even the one after that. The performance increase might be there, but I haven't read of any performance increases on Windows 8 anywhere. "No UI = No New OS" is my policy here. I want the Metro UI, but a nice form of input with it.
All I need is a touch mouse that allows for all the otherwise touch-screen Windows 8 gestures, but still retains physical left and right mouse buttons for gaming. After that, I am sold so long as everything in terms of drivers and stuff checks out.
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Software support is pitiful? Literally almost nothing in regard to how a program runs has changed. If itunes doesn't work that's because itunes is a crappy piece of **** software. Steam has never not worked, idk where you heard that. As far as I can tell, everything that worked on 7 will work on 8, with the obvious exception of 7 tweakUI and related customization utilities.
As for an MS acount, no you don't need one. You can create a local account just like you always could, and if you want you can log into the store with an MS account, so you can still use metro without tying your local account to the MS account. But if you do this you obviously lose the neat sync features.
As for the mouse, trust me when I say you do not want to buy into a gimmicky piece of hardware like that. If you find something, it's not going to be suitable for gaming as the hardware will probably be pretty shoddy. I don't know why you keep insisting that you need touch input, I've tried to tell you but you just won't listen! Touch input is just unnecessary! It's not going to add to your windows 8 experience in any significant way. Save yourself the money, just get a conventional mouse from razer or logitech. Stop convincing yourself that the input is "touch based"- the mouse actually uses different gestures than the touch input does so each new addition can be accessed by mouse gesture or touch gesture. Insisting that you need touch to use it the touch way is just stupid.
"No UI = No New OS"
You are the worst type of person. It's that kind of horrible attitude that turns good software into ****. Behind the scenes improvements and minor efficiency optimizations to the established UI(s) is what the focus should be. I'm not even going to try and explain to you why that's so stupid...
/abandon thread
If you have a synaptic touch pad on your laptop aready then just download the latest drivers, they work fine, to be honestmate you've read to much in to the touch centric UI its just as easy with a keyboard an mouse, use it, learn it, and I promise once you get the Hang of it you won't miss the touch screen, that then allows you to freely learn the OS an when your ready you can buy a new laptop or tablet when the time an price is right for you, don't believe all the negativity you read on this, its almost all complete FUD
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