Database Users

Got my Xperia. Phone is awesome, Panels are pathetic

Got my Xperia on Friday. I am amazed, it is easily the best hardware on Winmo. I have a Touch Pro also and have had every other previous decent windows mobile phone you can shake a stick at.
First thoughts.
It is great to get away from Touchflo as I didnt really like that but I am sorry, SE your panels are sh/*e up to now and are not fit for purpose. Unlike some commentators I think the concept is great but it is so buggy it is unbelievable. On certain panels once you open them you got a desktop that has delays of 30 seconds to a minute when you click on items. How can something like that leave the factory.
However, if you steer clear of the panels (or at least a couple of them) the hardware is truly amazing and really sleek. Way better than the sloppy touch pro. It feels like it is made of metal (it is of course), the screen is fantastic.
The keyboard is not as good as the one on the touch pro but it is only slightly different and I am quickly adjusting to it.
I have to say that I am delighted with it (bar the panels) but I reckon there is more to come once they release some updates (or someone else does a rom for it).
Has anyone else got problems with the panels like this?
My two worst ones are the silver home screen which goes really slow and the multimedia one that freezes altogether.

stuartforrest said:
Got my Xperia on Friday. I am amazed, it is easily the best hardware on Winmo. I have a Touch Pro also and have had every other previous decent windows mobile phone you can shake a stick at.
First thoughts.
It is great to get away from Touchflo as I didnt really like that but I am sorry, SE your panels are sh/*e up to now and are not fit for purpose. Unlike some commentators I think the concept is great but it is so buggy it is unbelievable. On certain panels once you open them you got a desktop that has delays of 30 seconds to a minute when you click on items. How can something like that leave the factory.
However, if you steer clear of the panels (or at least a couple of them) the hardware is truly amazing and really sleek. Way better than the sloppy touch pro. It feels like it is made of metal (it is of course), the screen is fantastic.
The keyboard is not as good as the one on the touch pro but it is only slightly different and I am quickly adjusting to it.
I have to say that I am delighted with it (bar the panels) but I reckon there is more to come once they release some updates (or someone else does a rom for it).
Has anyone else got problems with the panels like this?
My two worst ones are the silver home screen which goes really slow and the multimedia one that freezes altogether.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The multimedia panel works nice for me without hickups, but Sony Ericsson Panel 1 and 2 are slow and unusable. But I don´t use the panels often, the phone is so nice even without the panel concept

Hi stuartforrest.
I ve one question for you. . Most of the Touch Pro users (included me) suffer of GPS lag (Not time to fix but arrow 3 or 4 seconds behind you). Could you tell us your experience with Xperia and GPS lag issue?
Thanks
Dani

danielherrero said:
Hi stuartforrest.
I ve one question for you. . Most of the Touch Pro users (included me) suffer of GPS lag (Not time to fix but arrow 3 or 4 seconds behind you). Could you tell us your experience with Xperia and GPS lag issue?
Thanks
Dani
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is already discussed here.
Please do not comment on the GPS in this thread otherwise the information gets lost.

Sorry. As you can see I asked in that thread too and only one answer and the owner hadnt a touch Pro so he couldnt compare. I wanted to know the opinion of a user who owned both phones. I dont really think my question is out of topic

why do you think the keyboard is better on the touch pro?
looks like the xperia would be easier to use with the spacing between keys which should them easier to miss. though it is lacking the extra row. do you find the loss of that row worth the added benefit of smaller size and better accuracy?
i have no idea since i have neither of the phones yet.

I suggest trying the Spb Mobile Shell panel.
I like it.
Working to get a proper install of TCPMP with decent plugins to play all media.
Currently flac, wmv, 3gp and avi, all play decently.
mp4 on the other hand does not.
Luckily the built-in WMP plays mp4 just fine.

I have been using my Xperia X1 for over two weeks now and I have to agree with stuartforrest, the panel function sucks. It is a really useless function.
easycure1974 said:
The multimedia panel works nice for me without hickups, but Sony Ericsson Panel 1 and 2 are slow and unusable. But I don´t use the panels often, the phone is so nice even without the panel concept
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, try this...
Say you want to listen to some music, start the multimedia panel and start playing the music that you want. Then why not look up the artist on google, lets go to the google panel. Press the X panel button, what the .... the music stops. So with the panels you can only do one thing at the time.
It is much more practical to use Spb Mobile Shell, I only miss a quick way to turn WLAN on and off.
Why do people call this phone Sony xperia X1 on this forum when the real name is Sony Ericsson Xperia X1? I would say that the "Ericsson part" has the biggest influence on design and development so I would rather call it Ericsson Xperia X1 then Sony Xperia X1.

SCtud said:
why do you think the keyboard is better on the touch pro?
looks like the xperia would be easier to use with the spacing between keys which should them easier to miss. though it is lacking the extra row. do you find the loss of that row worth the added benefit of smaller size and better accuracy?
i have no idea since i have neither of the phones yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try to explain..
The keyboard on Xperia is not good. The buttons are small and difficult to feel and when pressed the respons is bad. So typing is difficult, but I'm getting better on it every day..
My pevious phone was the Hermes whitch has a much better keyboard with larger keys.

Press the X panel button, what the .... the music stops. So with the panels you can only do one thing at the time.
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Click to collapse
I noticed that too since the previews, that sucks so badly; but the important question is, will it also stop if you're using 3rd party music player like coreplayer? if so then it IS BEYOND HORRIBLE!

are you able to turn off the panels? like you can shut off touchflo? i'd rather use my mobile without easier, i think...
eric b

According to SE is it not possible to turn panels off.

No it is prefectly viable to use all third party software. In fact I would say it is much easier to do this than on the Touch Pro or Diamond where you have to get inot hacking touch flo 3d to launch a different calendar app etc.
The SE Xperia X1 is easily the best piece of hardware ever on WinMo. Why HTC didnt make their own device as good as they made this third party one I dont know.
The keyboard is not as brilliant as the T/Pro but it is still damn good and you do get more used to it.
I just need to learn how to reprogam the utterly sh*+e panels button to launch SPB mobile shell and I will be happy.

SO,How is XpErIa?

After using the device for last two weeks now i want to think does it really made us happy,if it's then how much? Haven't you guys think for a single moment that it is not worthy. Is there any real competitor or better out there?

i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.

aaahhhhh................ I love this phone. i bought it this afternoon. i think te best thing about this phone is the 3,5inch jackplug (my last phone was a hermes with an mini usb audio plug GGGRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr!!! for 4 times i had to buy a new converter cable because of the crapy quality.)
For a phone with a qwerty keyboard it a pretty slim phone, not?
simply love this one!

i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.

boinger66 said:
i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True
Very very happy...

anheuer said:
i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also own a Diamond and a X1 - I thought the SE would be an great evolution from the Diamond.
The Diamond was the revolution - a great phone. The SE is not really great in any way, however it's - quite good in everything.

I originally upgraded to the C905 but decided to changed it for the X1. So glad that I did as I'm loving it. Had it for 2 weeks now and I'm still finding out new things about it. It's my first WinMob phone so there's so much more you can do with it. Can't wait for more apps to be released and a system upgrade would be nice.

I'm even happier now i've given up on trying to use the TouchFlo CAB's.
I think if you embrace the phone interface as it was intended you'll get much more enjoyment from it.

x1 + tflo3d rulez... quick phone, quick gps, good wifi, hw keyboard needs only some time to get comfortable... I'm very happy

It's great, just... great
I had an Iphone 3G before so even if the screen is more little, the WVGA is great.
The battery is good, the keyboard is nice and at last I can use Real VNC or Remote Desktop to access my servers without a laptop and with a decent resolution.
And of course, it's fast.
There are still some problems (wifi password lost, BT disconnecting) but I guess it can be solved by an updated firmware.
But in the end, I just like it

The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again

The only gripe I have with it is the crappy signal, but that should be amended with a radio upgrade.

From a total package perspective, the X1 is a very good smartphone.
Sure there are some areas that needs more work, but they are not fatal and do not detract from the overall high quality of the device. It is well designed and well built, and the specifications are about one of the best in the market right now.
I am very happy with my X1, and is one of the better buys that I've made over the past year or so.

I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.

kiwiandy said:
The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This I agree with you regarding the poor support of HTC even in Singapore. Before using the X1, I have tried out Diamond which is my first WM device and after Touch Pro launch, I switch to Touch Pro due to the lack of memory and laggy of the Diamond.
Touch Pro is a little better than Diamond as both are also using Touch Flo 3D and Touch Pro has little memory more than Diamond.
I have no regrets switching to X1 as it is a lot faster and responsive than HTC device as SE has a better after sales support in terms of service centre and phone support compared to HTC.
I don't think I will ever buy any HTC product in future too cos after sales support is important to me as there are no product which is perfect and problem free in this world.

contaygious said:
I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude you have failed to internalise the purpose of panels. It's a desktop profile based on the time of the day. You don't switch panels like you switch windows!
before you call the concept stupid, understand it first. Using it for wrong purpose is like buying a 2 door sports car for cargo delivery purpose and claim the car manufacturer stupid for designing the car that don't meet your needs!

I miss something between "very very happy" and "just about OK".
It's better that "just about OK", but it's not perfect.
I love the small overall size, the stylisch metal cover, the keyboard, the good standby time, the good performance, the big memory, the hi-res display, ...
But then again, the panels aren't that great, I miss some application buttons, the soft reset button location is plain stupid, the screen resolution causes troubles with some programs, the screen size is only just big enough, I miss an option to disable the optical DPad per application (it's great in many apps, but esp. in some games, it really sucks...), ... Mostly only minor things, but stopping me from being "very very happy"...

i m proud of using xperia

akechi84 said:
i m proud of using xperia
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Click to collapse
Me too, it is so sexy and light compared to my previous Touch Pro, just like bringing out a BRICK.

contaygious said:
They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen.
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Click to collapse
The "screenshots" in the panel selection screen are only rough examples. They're really only something like "improved icons" for selection, and do not represent the actual contents.
Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded.
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Click to collapse
The device does remember the last panel, if that's what you mean. Just press the red phone button to go back to that.
Though I admit it would've been a way better idea to return to the last panel with the panel button and then open the panel selection with another press of the button. Or even better, show the next panel after a short press and show the selection with a long press.
For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably up to the panel itself. If SPB doesn't save the last panel contents, you can't blame the panel concept. For example, the SE panels do remember the selected blocks. But I think SPB wanted it that way, just like the Now screen in "normal" Mobile Shell always initializes with the same contents.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but not (only) because of the reasons you named.
I think panels are more or less an unnecessary reprogramming of the Today screen (esp. the SE panel "blocks" would have made great plugins...).
With good plugins and a way to have more plugins than just the currently visible ones (e.g. with UltimateLaunch, PocketPlus, some SBSH plugins, ...), you get similar results way faster, more easy to handle, and using less system resources. OK, no nice 3D animations, but except for showing off they've got no use there, anyway...
Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, it's more like shuffling around hi-res icons...
Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually, it takes not even a second on my device.

Partial comparison with iPhone

Hello
I have been a happy HTC Touch (regular not HD) user for 12 months, doing extensive customisation on my phone. Recently, mainly because my Touch was really slow (only 64Ko of memory, still slow even after replacing with a faster ROM), I bought an iPhone 3G.
After a few months of use, there are pros and cons of course. Now that the HD is out, I am wondering if I should switch back to the HTC Touch HD.
So here are my first conclusions, but of course since I don't have a Touch HD, I cannot answer many of the points.
Please use this thread to complete a really detailed comparison between the iPhone and the Touch HD, not what you can find on standard sites comparing basic features.
General response time: big disappointment as this was my main driver. The iPhone (I have 4 pages of apps installed, so what, I should not use the phone fully???) is really slow. Calendar or contact can sometimes takes up to 5 seconds to open: UNACCEPTABLE. Inside the apps sometimes it is slow as well. Hope the Touch HD is better than the Touch
Calendar: Iphone standard Calendar is much easier to use with a finger than default WM version. However I was using ThumbCal and it was fine with finger even on small HTC Touch screen. Not sure if HTC Touch HD enlarges standard WM calendar (everything is larger) or simply packs more info on a signle page? Also I don't like the fact in iPhone that tasks are not managed by Calendar, annoying!
Contacts: iPhone is much better than default WM or HTC Touch features (one again mainly because easier to use without a stylus). However replacement app such as PocketCm does a better job on WM than on the iPhone: Easier scroll through contact on main page by showing the first letter that will be displaid if releasing the finger. SMS are visible from the contact directly, no need to open SMS app like on the iPhone. Much better group and filter management also: ability to filter contacts by groups (ok also on iPhone, but management of groups creates constraints in Outlook), by city, by company... no equivalent on iPhone.
Phone: better on iPhone: the screen locks itself while speaking, to prevent pressing keys, this is good, don't think it's available on Touch HD? Bigger keys on dialer. Better display format of phone numbers on dialer (grouping of digits). Good pad showing up when on the phone to have the need options on iPhone (speaker phone, contacts, calendar...). And finally Visual Voice mail is useful!
Internet browsing: hard to compare, as I could not really use opera mini on the Touch. I must say Safari does the job quite well, allowing you to access most sites, without flash of course. Does Opera allow to see flash sites? Safari sometimes crashes, but still acceptable. Speed depends on quality of connection. One great thing is integration with iPhone programs: for instance you look on Google for a store. You find it with phone number displaid on Google search page. CLicking on the phone number allows you to call it directly. If you make the call, in call history it will diplay correctly the name of the store to be entered directly in contacts! Fantastic, probably not available in WM and Opera?
Mail: hard to compare as I was not using it on Touch. But the iPhone feature is excellent. I use Yahoo mail. Configuration was very simple, and mails are pre formatted to the iPhone scrren, making it easy to use. Does Touch HD reformat properly mails?
Other programs in general: I would say most progams are more mature on WM, but harder to use since designed to use with a stylus. Not sure once again if the Touch HD enlarges same surface on the screen or simply packs more info in one page, still requiring use of stylus.
Profile Management: my biggest problem with iPhone: Apple does not allow to create a progam that will switch automatically several profile parameters. What is this? A profile is a set of parameter such as screen brightness, ring tone/vibrate, blue tooth on/off, wifi off, 3G on/off, GPS on/off... With Phoneweaver I was able to create as many profiles as needed and change at the touch of a finger. In iPhone, a real nightmare. Let's say you want to activate 3G and GPS: it takes at least 15 clicks... just for these 2 options. UNACCEPTABLE.
SpringBoard: this is the ability to use icons on the today screen: much better on the iPhone by default, but once again with additional program in WM such as iLauncher I was able to get a better result by creating categories which is not really possible in iPhone (I tried Categories, way too slow! and Stacks is odd to use).
GPS: well without TOmTOm I don't see the use of the GPS in the iPhone...
This is a first shot, please give some input!
Olivier

How is this a comparison if you don't even have the Touch HD? It is just your opinions of the iPhone 3G.......on a Touch HD forum of all places.

You can not compare the htc touch with the iphone 3G
the iphone 3G is a newer model which was released 1 year after the htc touch

Also the HD has all the phone features you are saying are better on the iphone and unavailable on the HD. You can either autolock phone when you make a call or use the light sensor on the earpiece. And you get the pad type thing.

i suggest you actually use the HD before posting a comparison in here.

I dont think this guy has used a windows mobile device at all, let alone the Touch HD. he sounds like an apple fan who has just 'heard a bunch of stuff' about Windows Mobile.
Most of it is unfounded.. I mean, how are iPhone contacts better than the Touch HDs? Which is VERY finger friendly.

Calm down with the fanboi defensive stuff guys.
I've had both (sold the Iphone).
Touch HD pro: great form factor, fabulous screen, the resolution makes it so much more usable for bigger webpages. The tweakability of WM too.
Touch HD cons: lots of little irritating things - it's a shoddy unfinished product in a lot of ways. GPS popping offline, wifi problems, those damn freezes, the incompleteness of T3D, the need to tweak all sorts of things that should already have been done (eg opera tweak so you don't need to zoom before clicking). Youtube app doesn't work at all on mine. No BBC iplayer (not HTC's fault of course, but still an issue for consumers). Lots of other small things that should never have happened with a finished product, let alone one costing more than most laptops.
Now that looks like a lot of cons relative to the pros, but the thing is the hardware is just a baseline, a starting point. The excellence of the screen allows it to be whatever product you want - none of the failings are critical for me, and by tweaking/customizing I've fixed/bypassed most of them.
Basically, the Touch HD is a better product than the Iphone, but let down by software quality control.

arfster said:
Calm down with the fanboi defensive stuff guys.
I've had both (sold the Iphone).
Touch HD pro: great form factor, fabulous screen, the resolution makes it so much more usable for bigger webpages. The tweakability of WM too.
Touch HD cons: lots of little irritating things - it's a shoddy unfinished product in a lot of ways. GPS popping offline, wifi problems, those damn freezes, the incompleteness of T3D, the need to tweak all sorts of things that should already have been done (eg opera tweak so you don't need to zoom before clicking). Youtube app doesn't work at all on mine. No BBC iplayer (not HTC's fault of course, but still an issue for consumers). Lots of other small things that should never have happened with a finished product, let alone one costing more than most laptops.
Now that looks like a lot of cons relative to the pros, but the thing is the hardware is just a baseline, a starting point. The excellence of the screen allows it to be whatever product you want - none of the failings are critical for me, and by tweaking/customizing I've fixed/bypassed most of them.
Basically, the Touch HD is a better product than the Iphone, but let down by software quality control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, although the Opera thing is not a bug, it's a feature We are spoiled with the HD screen which allows you to actually read huge pages without zooming. On other devices, you hardly can, let alone click a link in any accurate fashion, so you will want to be able to zoom first without accidentally clicking some link in the process... Everyone has their opinion about this of course but this is the reason behind it.

nin2thevoid said:
Agree, although the Opera thing is not a bug, it's a feature We are spoiled with the HD screen which allows you to actually read huge pages without zooming. On other devices, you hardly can, let alone click a link in any accurate fashion, so you will want to be able to zoom first without accidentally clicking some link in the process...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrrm, don't see why. What's the benefit of zooming first? You can still do it if you want.
Looks to me like HTC just installed Opera and didn't bother testing/tweaking it.

arfster said:
Hrrm, don't see why. What's the benefit of zooming first? You can still do it if you want.
Looks to me like HTC just installed Opera and didn't bother testing/tweaking it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently the meaning of this is that one click in zoom out mode means hovering the mouse to that area. Some websites depends heavily on mouse and hover menus, and without this these sites would be unusable.

I have only 1 thing to say...I had Iphone and HTC X7500....Sold both of them and bought Touch HD...I am really happy with it

Why do people insist on compare a toy with professional devices with all features need and many more ? OMG and even comparing devices you don't have with toys, iPhoney is just a toy with many limitations, there's absolutely no way to compare it with the HD, for those who like to use the expression "iPhone killer" you can stop that, that device was already killed by past HTC devices and others. Stop creating Threads like this one.
Best regards

PJMDS said:
Why do people insist on compare a toy with professional devices with all features need and many more ? OMG and even comparing devices you don't have with toys, iPhoney is just a toy with many limitations, there's absolutely no way to compare it with the HD, for those who like to use the expression "iPhone killer" you can stop that, that device was already killed by past HTC devices and others. Stop creating Threads like this one.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but that's just silly. Of course you can compare them - as cameras, as music players, as web browsers, as video players etc etc. Same as any other multimedia phone. Personally my take is that the Iphone still has the best interface going, and benefits from a mass captive market that others don't have. It took until the touch hd before I actually bought a replacement - none of the other potential "iphone killers" were was good as even the original device (including previous HTC products).
What is with all the fanboi rubbish for and against the iphone? It's a device. If you like it you buy, if not you don't. People seem to take to "supporting" their favourite product like a football team.

There are just a few basic things in my opinion that make the HD far superior to the iPhone.
1. iPhone has no copy and paste...how stupid is that?
2. iphone has no working GPS software with built-in maps and voice navigation...huge omission.
3. iPhone doesn't multitask, you have to close an app to start another...OMG!
If these points don't convince someone that they should get the HD over the iPhone then that's fine, different strokes for different folks. The iPhone is iCandy...period.

concerning web browsing, iphone is much better than the touch hd.
Even though its screen is a bit smaller, the pages load much faster and the scrolling is way smoother.
The keypad is also much better on the iphone, at least for me. When pressing a key, you see above your finger whiwh key you pressed.
Not mentionning the audio part for which the hd doesn't come close to the iphone.
I guess you're wondering what i'm doing here and why i haven't sold my hd yet ? The hd is the best wm based device i've ever had. Being able to install whatever you want and to tweak at will is great.
Now, if a good gps software is someday released for iphone, i may reconsider and leave the touch hd unless it's been improved for web browsing notably in the meantime

...
well, on the other hand some pages in Safari doesn´t work correctly and I don´t understand what you mean the audio part - the quality of 3,5 jack output are comparable (according to independent tests - see gsmarena for example)...iphone´s jack output is just good, not outstanding quality.

catinthehat said:
i suggest you actually use the HD before posting a comparison in here.
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Second that....
totally useless post, if u actually not even own a HD

hannawald said:
well, on the other hand some pages in Safari doesn´t work correctly and I don´t understand what you mean the audio part - the quality of 3,5 jack output are comparable (according to independent tests - see gsmarena for example)...iphone´s jack output is just good, not outstanding quality.
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Click to collapse
True. Forgot to mention it's the software side i was talking about : i find it easier to navigate all my music on the iphone. Htc tried to mimic this interface but it doesn't match the original
This is of course subjective, but at least it comes from a guy who has both devices in his pocket =)

well all i have to say on the subject is this....

David Balfour said:
well all i have to say on the subject is this....
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hehehe you missed the battery....

will the lack of stylus be an issue?

while the gigantic 4.3" helps in making everything finger (or even foot) friendly, its still a windows mobile device. and many of the apps require some precision are written to be used with a stylus. i cant imagine using "Pocket Artist" or copy and pasting text using my finger on a WM device.
You guys think that this will be a problem with this device.

it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen? I don't remember ever using the stylus on my HD...never needed it. I don't expect I'll need it on this device either

twisted-pixel said:
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen?
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Because iPhone applications are written on the assumption that they are being used on an iPhone without a stylus. Plenty of Windows Mobile apps are written on the assumption that you are using a stylus; this includes a number of utilities built into the operating system.

I used the Leo ROM on my Xperia X1 and can say as long as you stay inside windows (or said different inside the shipped software) you won't get any problems, its very finger friendly and I never went down to an old wm 6 skin. concerns are only there if you want to use some 3rd party software. there might be a problem with finger usage like said above or somewhere else as they don't have to be finger optimized.

Personally - I think it will be fine. Also with later revisions of WM6.5 and then hopefully WM7 I think the phone will get easier IF there are any issues. The issues will only occur when you come out of the HTC Sense layer anyway, which won't be that often.

I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?

Lack of stylus will not be a issue at all with that huge screen...I think. We see when its in our hands. Hope it will be very soon

I'm using a TyTN II and almost never dig out the stylus. Over time I moved to apps that were finger friendly. And with the current design trends, I'm guessing even more apps will become available that don't require a stylus.
-Bob-

12aon said:
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
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Click to collapse
afaik yes but on no pics can you find where it is placed i think and then they will probably release it with a largish price tag like the car dock...

All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".

Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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What makes you say this? There have been plenty off leo roms out that seem to leave that function intact

Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
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Click to collapse
I don't use my Touch Diamond's stylus, and the Touch Diamond has a much smaller screen so I think the huge screen of the HD2, coupled with the capacitive touch sensivity, should be fine.
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...

And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
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True, because the TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO were sold on devices with *resistive* screens, these devices can handle Windows Mobile screens without any trouble. The HD2 on the other hand has the capacitive screen, and HTC knows that operating the WM UI with such device is going to be a problem, such a problem that no one even believe capacitive will reach WM before version 7.0, yet HTC came with the MANILA 2.5 solution, so I can very much understand them when they say they don't want you to defeat MANILA 2.5.

O2 are offering me this phone as an upgrade. I need a decent keyboard and am loathed to part with my TP2!
Does anyone have any experience of using any of the screen "keyboards" for emails etc? If so, can it really replace the hardware keyboard?

May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD

kjt57 said:
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
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Click to collapse
You need a special kind of stylus for capacitive screens.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CAPACITIV...ries_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item2ea897a251

Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!

Can't help but think everyone is being a little binary here
The UI is the launch pad for the device ... It will be possible to disable TouchFlo3D. HTC were probably saying this to detract people from the ever present concerns with exposure to the native OS UI.
All the other apps you use on the device have their own UI. Once launched, it is almost (back to that in a moment) irrelevant what the OS UI is. The concern will be if those desktop class apps we love on WM in spite of WM itself are not easy to use on the HD2.
I don't see many apps I have that will be a problem ... infact, the only ones would be Resco Explorer, utilities like SKtools, data entry tools like Softmaker Office and PhatNotes (although I'll probably be ok with the on screen keyboard given the capacitive touch and size of display ... and for laptop 'replacement' use, I'll use the BT Stowaway keyboard and mouse) and drawing tools .... which some I'm sure want .... I personally (and therefore subjective) have never used them ... so it isn't an issue for me.
It is true to say that PI and Flexmail could do with more focus on touch ... and given the iPhone apps Alex was working on (I'm a little out of date) ... I'm sure that will come soon.
Also .. I'm not sure if it waning enthusiasm or a change of focus ... but having used PI extensively for years ... when using Mobile Shell 3 and things like PocketBreeze, I realised I rarely went to PI any more .... With FlexMail ... it is a superb product ... but it always had problems with storage ... and after the WM client supported HTML ... it was less needed ... with TF3D ... again ... makes it even easier ... so PI will remain for micro text month view and tasks ... FM will remain for when I need to do complex searches of mail (a real weakness of the native clients on all phones), but I will rarely touch them in normal daily use.
So ... although I resisted the 'hype' around capacitive ... and thought a stylus would always be needed .... in practice ... I'd like to get an HTC capacitive stylus if it ever makes it off the drawing board ... but I doubt I'll really need one.
I used to always want the keyboard ... but after having 4 TyTNs and 3 TyTNIIs respectively before I got one that didn't have some keyboard or mech / ribbon issue .... and the TP2 that had the loose mech issue ... I finally decided I wanted to simplify all mechanical bits ... so I'm looking forward to the HD2. I like others think the 5 buttons + the rocker will allow aebutton+ control where needed in older games.
And the benefit to the Capacitive screen for me will be a smoother more responsive touch (I'm not commenting of accuracy ... because no one that hasn't used it can really comment ... and they certainly can't comment on what it maybe like if and when the HTC Stylus comes out ... if it does) .... and it should also be less reflective ... and therefore clearer in different light conditions ... and it will have a harder surface ... which will (to me) feel better.
So in summary ... given TF3D or MS3.5 will cover most of the OS UI requirements ... as well as the front end to native apps which are touch optimised and most of the big apps I will use will be fine with their own UI ... I think the HD2 with it's display and external simplicity has hit the market at the right time and will in practise be more than fine for everyone happy with a device this size that doesn't need drawing apps on day one.
I also suspect that the internal 512M + a good fast 16 or 32 GB MicroSDHC will more than meet the requirements of the WM7 1 chassis .... and in a year or 18 months ... when I have itchy feet .... I will get a ROM from XDA .... that will rejuvinate the machine ... I can't say this for certain ... and no one at present can say it will or won't be a possibility ...
Mine is on order for Clove ... it is genuinely the first time I've been excited about a WM device since the TyTNII was announced ...

Moandal said:
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should try it before drawing any conclusions?
Really interested in seeing how Opera performs on the HD2 and whether or not clicking links is difficult.

It's easy to tap small links on the iphone, why should it be difficult on the HD2? All this "it won't be possible to use because of the capacitive screen" debate is just FUD, IMO.

From TouchPro 2 to HD 2: my opinion

Greetings here! A few months ago, when I saw the "new" touch pro 2 phone, I knew it was "THE" phone for me. Well, I must say it really was, but I just decided to try the new HD2. So, from TP2 to HD2, what can I say? Perhaps my point of view coul help some tp2 owners to choose between "I keep my tp2" or "I buy the hd2"? Here is my opinion:
1) ROM / programs / games / ect...
Well... I can't say. It's the same basically. Evertything the hd2 has, the tp2 can have (with cooked roms at least). Of course, the hd2 is much faster, and can launch many more app in the same time (much more memory). Even after some days without soft-reseting, the thing is still fast and good responding (I must say I use some taskmanager to kill apps I don't use)
2) Keyboard
I must say I write about 4-5 emails each day. The lack of physical keyboard on the hd2 was my worst fear. Well, I was quite disappointed with the hd2 software keyboard, as many people in this forum. Then I tried fingerkeyboard, it was better. Then again, I tried Touchpal, and it was MUCH better. Of course, I can't type as fast as I was used to with my tp2 but... I can type quite fast using touchpal. I can say I'm satisfied with typing on this phone.
3) Battery life
Well, 1'500 Mah for the tp2, and "only" 1'200 for the hd2. I can see the difference. But I'm not using the battery too much (average use: 30 min phone, 1 hour music, 1 hour reading / answering mails, perhaps 30 min on internet, no wi-fi, no bluetooth, and some playing with differents apps), and the hd2 can do it for 2 days without problems.
4) Screen
Is there any need to comment? 3.6' resistive VS 4.3' capacitive? The difference is HUGE!
5) Size
Well, I find that, finally, the hd2 isn't so big compared to the tp2. Much more thinner. I use my hd2 with 2 hands... but I was used to do the same with my tp2 (I didn't ever tried to use it single-handed)
6) Phone / Signal quality
It's still a phone, isn't it? I find the signal quality is the same as it was with my tp2 (flashed with the last radio). Phone quality is very good. The sound is clear and good, better (in my opinion) than on the tp2.
7) GPS
The fix is quite fast, nothing to say, I'm satisfied. Perhaps faster than it was on the tp2.
8) Windows mobile 6.5
My tp2 was 6.1 version (at least until I flashed it). I don't see much differences, and I don't care, actually. I like windows mobile. Why is that? simply because I can choose exactly what I want for my mobile phone. I mean I can choose between (at least):
* Manilla "Sense UI"
* WM6.5 Titanium (not so bad)
* SPB Mobile shell 3.5 (using it right now and quite pleased)
* PointUI Home 2 (long to test and configure, but you can do everything you want with this one. I had some lag with my tp2, but everything runs fine with the hd2)
* ...
9) Camera:
I don't think the hd2 is much better than the tp2... Well, I don't really care. If I want to take a picture, I generally use a "real" camera...
10) Keys:
There is 1 more hardware key on the hd2 (if you don't consider the tp2 hardware keyboard and on/off button). I don't really care about the key functions as I remap them all using AE Button (which I use as taskmanager mapped on a button also). I must even say AE button works better with the hd2 (no idea why... but finding which button was what on the AEB button list was harder on the tp2).
Well... I think that's all. I see many threads flaming the hd2 here, and I don't really understand why so... I decided to share my experience.
PS: Sorry for my english, it's not my main language

Thanks for sharing your experience I upgraded from Touch HD to HD2 and it was a right decision. This phone is just great.

hey mate, well I have a TP2 from work and a HD2 as my personal phone.
Some good points above but I'll add the following:
A)- The TP2 is atrociously slow with the newer 'sense' official ROM's from HTC - Seems the 1Ghz CPU really does make allot of difference when using the WM6.5 ROM's.
B)- The camera is way better than the TP2 - no flash on the TP2 for a start but the overall quality is better on the HD2....
C)- I find the TP2 bulky but thats the compromise you have to make for having a keyboard - one well worth it taking into account the excellent well spaced out keyboard on the TP2 - And I agree with you - the HD2 keyboard is quite sensitive - takes some getting used to.
The way I see it - The TP2 is an excellent business tool and the HD2 is an excellent multimedia / consumer tool. I wouldn't give up my TP2 for work use as I type on the excellent keyboard allot (using MS Communicator) but don't need it for personal use hence the HD2 is well suited for that purpose.
Usual principles apply - everyone has their personal preferences

hehe thanks for your sharing
I'll probably switch from my s710 to the hd2 (what a huge change)

• The speaker in TP2 is the double of sound volume (it has 2 speakers). You can watch films without headphones without any problem as it is very loud and clear
• The screen in TP2 is brighter than HD2 even when both are to the maximum of bright. Also TP2 by default is always in the maximum when HD2 is not to keep the weaker battery safe. The extra bright doesn’t compensate the screen size but makes easier to see it in sunlight and movies with dark-night environments
• TP2 is extremely reliable out the box, HD2 is buggy. Simply don’t try to upgrade TP2 to 6.5 than offers little new and uses more memory.
• TP2 keyboard is perfect, the best ever. HD2 is faulty but you always can train yourself to compensate it.
• TP2 touch screen is predictable; it does what you try to do. HD2 screen is unpredictable. It doesn’t really work in a lot of programs with old menus.
• HD2 browsing internet and movie player is very powerful and way ahead to TP2.
I find very handy also the tilt support of the TP2 when placed in a table. You can have the correct vision angle to see movies at same time you have the keyboard to pause, go backwards and forwards etc. When I see a movie in HD2 everything is ok except if I need to do these operations as the touch screen is not acurate and send me to any part of the movie except the one that I'm looking for.
In general I find HD2 a god with broken legs and TP2 and well rounded hero.

touchpro2 all the way
Honestly I think HD2 has some software issues and do not recomend it. Some programs that work on windows mobile 5,6,6.1, for some reasons do not work on HD2. Especially the games . Wait for an update before getting HD2.