Related
The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
I haven't forgot about you guys. Today we had a meeting with XDA owners via telephone. Were just getting everything ready before we make a huge announcement. I told you guys I'm NOT going to let you guys down. Just be a little patient.
Thanks
TwitterSamsungJohn
Nice to hear from you John. Looking forward to hearing the news.
Interesting to hear.. But I wish it wasn't so "hush hush", because otherwise it starts to feel less of an equal community.
i guess i missed the part1.
what is this all about ?
I guess that instead of making another threads/parts it would be good to pin this thread down.
I, honestly, am very happy and interested in seeing how this cooperation will progress in time (and of course I'm not the only one here).
It's very encouraging to see company such as Samsung to start a cooperation (at whatever level) it gives kind of "legitimacy" to what people do here (although legitimacy might be too strong word, but still).
Either way I'm thrilled to see what the feature brings.
Regards,
Pawel
Hi there, John!
I personally am happy to see this sort of reach from a big company toward the ”little people” who often do more that a giant.
I also am wary regarding any possible positive outcome, considering you still have to overcome a strict and rigid hierarchy, while independent devs here are free to move as they please.
But it's nonetheless a great thing if Samsung really wants to be ”more open”.
Only one question: why, of all Sammy subsidiaries, has Seoul chosen Dallas (or any other US city for that matter), given that the most powerful and fruitful development effort was and still is directed towards Europe (SGS's biggest market to date)?
Cheers and all the best,
V.
Does the XDA-site administration actually produce anything on its own? Most (all?) of the people doing the actual hacking are members of the forum rather than working for it. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with... Coding/Hacking challenges? Can't really see much else that would actually need a collaboration with XDA instead of with the coders/hackers directly.
we're doing something but we won't tell you what!
but it's exciting i promise you!! we've discussed it with VIPs (which you are not part of, noob xda forum user!) and you may or may not see something about it later and it may or may not be exciting at all in the end (such as: oh look we opened a sgs 2 section !11)
oh god how much i dislike marketing lol
please, if you're going to do something for the community, just say it straight or don't say it at all
very good step by samsung
bilboa1 said:
we're doing something but we won't tell you what!
but it's exciting i promise you!!
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Last time someone told similar things I had to pay more tax, the kindergarten was more expensive and the atomic power plant contracts were extended instead of using cheap and tiny water power from Norway.
just say it straight or don't say it at all
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+1
Straight talk - that's it.
If it is confidential keep it confidential until a result is ready to be announced officially.
bilboa1 said:
we're doing something but we won't tell you what!
but it's exciting i promise you!! we've discussed it with VIPs (which you are not part of, noob xda forum user!) and you may or may not see something about it later and it may or may not be exciting at all in the end (such as: oh look we opened a sgs 2 section !11)
please, if you're going to do something for the community, just say it straight or don't say it at all
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Excellent points!
+1.
hopefully good news to come!
i'll keep this topic open as long as XDA members behave themselves in a polite manner
lets try to be constructive, and make the best of this endeavor with Samsung.
It's not an every day chance that you see Big corporations willing to listen.
AllGamer said:
i'll keep this topic open as long as XDA members behave themselves in a polite manner
lets try to be constructive, and make the best of this endeavor with Samsung.
It's not an every day chance that you see Big corporations willing to listen.
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There are only two now open, because of all the bashing - I'm cautiously hopeful that this is going to be a great thing, Samsung actually listening.....
I'm sure the bashing and mob mentality being displayed here will endear the manufacturer to this community and force it to listen to us. People use some common sense and stop advertising just how uneducated and uncultured you are. Here we potentially have a manufacturer reaching out and testing the water, hoping to gather information from it's user community to better it's device and service to us but you idiots seem hell bent on driving them off. MORONS!
Thank you so much Samsung for this recognition of our community, it means a lot and we all are thankful. Can't wait to see what comes of this.
Please keep us informed
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I'd like to think 2.3, with input and improvements from the 'XDA elite' (I'll name no names ).
But I won't be upset if this is not the case, nothing bad can come of this joint venture...
(and I know I shouldn't, but I had to laugh )
If ever something does come out of this, I think xda should have a "developers only" sub-section where devs can collaborate with manufacturers. Regular users can still read, but only devs can post. We shall leave it to the owners to decide who is a "dev" and who isn't. That should help keep the riff-raff out. I'm tired of seeing threads in the dev section filled with the same stupid questions over and over again.
locked per OP request
new event coming up soon...
Yes, another thank you thread. This is the one topic that justifies more than one thread. I recently pm'd a developer a lengthy compliment and received an interesting response.
As I read through the development forum I see too many posts asking for eta or complaints of bugs and *****ing about this and that. There is simply not enough thanking these guys for what they do FOR FREE!!!! we take for granted how much time and effort they put into their work and simply want want want and expect them to deliver like it's their dang job or something.
Instead of continuing to ramble, developers thank you for your time, free products, free labor, free mods, and I wish I had the power to banish those who ***** at you or put demands on you.
Guys, respect what our developers do and next time you think about asking about an eta or think about complaining, just say thanks.
From the big ole Note
Could not agree more. Thanks guys! (that includes gals in my book).
As a developer myself, although not in this arena, I know how much work it is, even though we would probably do it anyway just because we're wired that way!
I know the developer I spoke with was very appreciative of the message and stated that he wished there was more appreciation around. I just can't believe the audacity some people have to fuss at a developer or complain to them over trivial things. Obviously they should offer support but that is not what I am referring to.
And your reply reminded me that I did leave out the ladies! Thank you too lady devs! You're all the more sexy
From the big ole Note
There are always some aholes around. XDA is pretty big so by the simple probability there are bound to be few jerks around. You can ignore those people most of the times.
What I dont like that sometimes other members make too big a deal out of simple complaint in the developer section. Lot of people just flame someone because he asked something that has been asked 20 pages ago in thread or complained about something. Those are equally bad.
And then there are few developers themselves who are sometimes very rude to people who are just trying to help by pointing out some things or passing some suggestions to the developers. I wont take names but one developer simply told me that I dont need to give him any advice and I should stop using his work if I dont like the way he does it when I simply suggested something regarding the way he was managing files, that too via PM.
Its all part of the community though.
I agree respect definitely goes both ways. I also never have and never will agree with anyone flaming someone for asking a noob question even if it's been asked a million times. We were all noobs once and Lord knows search is a pain sometimes. And what does flaming a new kid accomplish anyway? Nothing.
Yes I've seen developers have bad attitudes also so you are right it does go both ways. I just hope that this place can begin to become more family and community like and less flame friendly although it's hard as it grows and the members get younger with no manners or respect.
I came from and still occasionally visit the evo 3d forum and it is way worse than this one as far as childish flaming and trolling.
From the big ole Note
Couldn´t agree more, thanks for the thread!
XDA Developers is so much fun! It so much became a hobby of mine, to read through the threads, to try out this and that, to flash roms on new devices (tablets, smartphones).
It was such a great experience to see my old XDA compact (HTC magician) getting reborn again every quartal after cotulla published a new rom for it.
Nearly 383984 devices later (feels like that^^) I´m on my second Note now. And it´s still so much fun to be here and to enjoy the work others are doing for free!
To all developers out there: Thank you so much for giving me that kind of entertainment AND professional support in the same time! Thank you for being allowed to be a part of this incredible community (and with community i refer to the hundreds of devs here, not the millions of users like me ). Thanks for your efforts and time!
If I was a millionaire I would definitely be donating to all of you whether I used your products or not.
And as a side note I wish there was more sharing and helping among some people. Some are too proud, I've seen some in other forums set others up and other dirty stuff which is ridiculous. Pride comes before the fall
From the big ole Note
Without the developers hard work, we all be stuck on using un-rootable slow often horrible looking stock UI from the manufactures with inconsistent update. I’d be better off using an iphone or a Nexus if that is the case.
Been able to run root apps and flash different ROM is what keeps me buying Android devices instead of an iphone.
Also it is great fun leaning how to root devices and flash ROMs.
So BIG thanks to all the developers on this forum for their valuable time and hard work.
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
... +1 ... it's a shame ...
+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..
shanman-2 said:
Maybe it has something to do with Dorimanx calling the kernal his own..!
Everyone uses things created by others but give credit.
But who am I to say maybe it is completely his own.
I did like his roms though..
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all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!
maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 (someone) who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 (everyone) that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta (built a)rim (rom) for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles (Google's) and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u (you) claim they are regonised developers then u (you) as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.
gazzacbr said:
+1 but there is usually more to these stories than appears.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
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Correct.
maddoc1007 said:
all kernel devs do same u dont see teds+gingers+coles3.1.1kernel just the name of who publishes kernel and compiles it together not the name of devs who solved and wrote code for different snippits used in kernel yet they still keep dev status and quite frankly a lot of those devs can be quite obnoxious, rude and contempious and not answer questions unlike dorimanx who always answers and tries to solve problems for us.
UNLIKE THE MODERATORS WHO DEEM THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO ANSWER ANYTHING AND NOW SEEM TO BE A LAW ONTO THEMSELVES!!!!!!
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May I ask how we are a law unto ourselves? We do answer to you (reply within 24 hours to your question is pretty good going), and I have explained the circumstances above.
pulser_g2 said:
Really? Well... What if I told you why it was removed. There is more to life than the HD2 forum, and in this case, there were issues in the Galaxy S 2 forum, pertaining to making unfounded and false allegations against another developer.
At XDA we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title. In this case, going around making false (and very serious) allegations against other developers is NOT acceptable. For this reason it was revoked, although a user subject to this can appeal and it will be dealt with suitably.
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So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements on the subject... and despite the "you weren't involved, dont say anything" montra that presents itself when I choose to post this, I have long thought he deserved his Dev title... (especially since hes been given it once before... even though that was a community wide mistake)
Hammerfest said:
So, from what I gather from both your reply, and this from dorimanx:
"""there was an small war with one more dev.
i was wrong about my clame.
and got insolted many time, from him and his friends, i have apologise, after i found i was wrong, but my title just removed"""
is that he said something in the wrong, then the person he wrongly called out, instead of solving the issue reasonably both him and his friends laid down a **** storm of insults and what-not (I assume here there was equally insulting return-fire), after finding out he was in the wrong, he apologized, but his title was still removed...
am I correct in assuming that none of the persons involved on the other side even got warning? (after-all, I got a warning because someone said something was not possible many times and I not-so-polity told them to bugger off... and then a week later what I requested was posted in the developer section....)
also can I assume that he can appeal his title revocation? he states after-all he did apologize, and he is after-all ACTUALLY a developer with much praise and admiration for his works...
Why not a warning instead of title pull? or temp ban or something? Telling a dev he isnt a dev is a bit more then insulting if you ask me...
*This is going on just what you both have said, if you wished to add more information to the pot, or point out the fiasco for others to read to understand better, I am all for it, but what I have written above is just from my reading both your and his statements ont he subject....
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There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.
re re reinstatement of dev to dorimanx
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others
pulser_g2 said:
There's more to the issue than that.
In order to properly investigate the claim, I did what any developer would do upon seeing that claim - take the original sources he made the allegation against, and then rebuild them from scratch, testing ONLY the change alleged to cause the issues.
This is a fundamental and basic step, and it demonstrated there was no issue with the sources being posted by the other developer.
1 ) I'd ask you, is it acceptable to go around making inflammatory remarks and comments against another developer, ACCUSING them of breaking the GPL (when in fact they are adhering to it beyond what is even required, pushing commits that are not released yet)? What if someone did that to your preferred developer? Wouldn't this be a thread of "OMG STRIP HIM OF HIS TITLE, HE INSULTED OUR FAVOURITE DEV"?
There was ample chance given to resolve the issue amicably, and the accusatory tone used against another developer was not acceptable. Furthermore, missing out on fundamental steps such as checking your own allegations out fully (by testing with clean, unmodified builds) is quite fundamental.
I did say he can appeal it, and he has contacted me with regard to that, and it will be dealt with in due course.
2 ) I'm surprised at you asking about that though - would you rather we temp ban him? I somehow don't think many people would agree with you.
Finally on regard to "telling a dev he isn't a dev", that is not what RD is about - RD is about the best examples of professional standard developers on XDA. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer. It's a privilege, not a right. And not every developer has it (many do not wish to have it, and have declined to apply even when suggested). It's something that's open to apply for, but people must be at the required level of skills and act in the right manner. If either of these changes, then their status can be reviewed.
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1: TBQH, if a dev came into the dev thread for dori's HD2, and pulled the same thing, and then WE as users and HIM as a developer played the whole two year old fighting game, you can bet your arse I would expect you to put everyone on "time-out" that fired off "conduct not inkeeping" with the expected conduct of the open source community (as you put it), dori and any of us users that participated as well! Additionally, I wouldn't request a title be stripped, because to the users of XDA as a whole, RD might as well just be D, and lets face it, I see far more users here then developers. However as I said, even if one was at fault, if both sides where participating in the argument and insults and "bad conduct", I MYSELF would still punish both sides, even a warning is still more tactful then removal of a title and normally a warning shunts people before it would warrant a ban or title revocation.
2: It was a suggestion made "in passing", and sometimes, people need a few days or even a week to cool down, but your right, not many people would agree with me, but it was throwing out something other then removing a title that IMHO at least, has been deserved by dori for the longest time...
Im not ignoring the rest of your comment btw, I am not a developer, but I am a user and a PC Builder/Tech both as a hobby and a job, and I advocate "full wipes" or "clean testing environments" whenever I play with new rom's, fix issues on customers computers, or even encounter error's myself, so I see the fault in calling out an issue, prior to a "scrub test" as I like to call it myself, and i kinda went into the RD issue in 1: so ill leave it at that
maddoc1007 said:
i have read the explanation from pulser but am somewhat dismayed by his reply shots were fired it seems from both sides, rude or derogatory they may have been but an apology was issued by dorimanx. my amusement stems from why when other devs on xda rant and rave at members for asking questions and call them stupid or thick and other inflamatory remarks you do not take their dev status from them
A we ask people to be respectful to each other, particularly anyone with a developer title.
your words above but yet iv not seen u or other moderators reprimanding those devs or taking their titles of them.
. If your conduct is not inkeeping with what is tolerated in the open source community (which is what this is), then you should not be a Recognized Developer.
more of your words but i have seen from thdeads on here the way ordinary decent people on here are treated and disrespected maybe their english is not too good or they are new and dont know their way around xda or maybe a threas is a few hundred pages long and they cant find what they are looking for and they ask a question. then lo and behold a dev tells them they are 2 stupid to look or too ignorant to.find it themselves or other worse remarks. is that not being disrespctful and NOT FOLLOWING YOUR CODE OF CONDUCT. yet ye take no action against them? as a result of the way people are insulted on here iv seen in threads where membera have said that they are leaving xda over the insults to them. so where were the moderators then and. why werent those devs titles taken??. read through your dev threads and you will see plenty of examples of this.
therefore it is not an even playing field for members here on xda and os if you want to throw me off xda so be it but until you clean up your act on xda you cant make 1 law for some and another law for others
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you make a good point, and I hope the mod reads it, I have seen many dev's for rom's and mods who definitely don't follow any "code of conduct" I have ever heard of, but I have NEVER (and I stress this in only my experience as a User of but a few ROM's) seen a user have his/hers title revoked, and I used to follow links and frequently browse XDA before I registered...
Now in saying that, its possible its due to a lack of "report"ing occurring, and with the latest fiasco regarding the E3D people have become "report" crazy and if it proves true, I should expect to see more "RD" and other "higher then senior member" accounts demoted
Ive noted before, Ill note again, I "assume" things being ok with making an ass out of myself, its part of the learning process, and I have to thank the mod for replying to me/us and taking the time to help us out as supporters of the user turned dev demoted user instead of outright closing the thread. Oh, and I am just a USER... dont taze me bro... (im a bit drunk, forgive me, I just had to...)
The biggest part of being a big open source community, or any community for that matter, is collaborating and the ability to tolerate mistakes. If nobody makes mistakes than the community is not evolving since there is nobody participating.
That being said, the bad blood which came across both Dorimanx and the other developer is a part of an active community, and it has been proven to be the only way somebody can truly learn; this is the main reason you have authority (moderators) present.
IMO stripping one user from his title but leaving the other is unfair prejudice, its like saying, "you were both wrong in your act, but he was wrong-er".
As a moderator, I suggest you ask yourself what is your message to the community, do you want more people participating but in a mannered, polite way or do you want people being afraid to challenge somebody?
As I see it, if you came here to learn, you ought to make mistakes; its a collaborative effort not a memorial for those who already know "everything" and came here to boost their ego, or am I wrong?
As a Retired Senior Mod and since i was involved in Dorinmax issue, i could say more about but this will be not fair against XDA, period.
XDA have rules and you are expected to follow them even if you are ERd, RD, RT, RC or a Mod, you cannot use a pubblic thread to make accuses, troll or to partecipate in a flaming war hence you will be punished with infraction points and/or ban and this happened in that case but yet i disagree with easy titles revoking and as said here, many other so called devs should be without the title.
The moral of the story is: When you have a problem or if you see any issue, contact you Forum Specific Moderator or any Senior Moderator, these people are doing a great job and they are always ready to help or to suggest how to address the problem in the better way.
maddoc1007 said:
to the moderators xda. what is developer? it is some1 who takes something and strides and makes it better hence Dorimanx. why was his status as dev taken away?
i know the argument is that he took parts from other members and improved upon them, but hey isnt that what every 1 that has developer status on xda has done? no dev on this site has created or builta rim for our hd2s on their own tyrung, raphiga etc etc they have all taken something that was originally googles and improved upon it whether sense, gingerbread or ics. they have taken improved code from other devs or google and made changes to it. or have taken roms from devs that stopped working on them and improved them.
So why then were their developer status not removed?????
if that is the case then no 1 on xda are really developers they are all senior members.
and if as u claim they are regonised developers then u as moderators of xda have no option in my opinion but to REINSTATE DEVELOPER STATUS TO DORIMANX............
if not then you in all conscience have to take away DEVELOPER STATUS FROM ALL DEVS ON XDA.
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Thanks man, you have stirred a bit o' thought.......
Sent from my HTC HD2 using xda premium
Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
shanman-2 said:
Looking again at this thread..do not politics come into everything that's worth talking about!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
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thats the crux of it all no wonder so many great developers have left xda!!
Such is life in the virtual world and the real world ta boot .. .LOL,
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
Thank you to all who have helped me over the years on XDA. And thank you to all the DEVs for your hard work and efforts. I will be leaving the community indefinitely just as soon as @MikeChannon receives and processes my request for full account removal. Many of you have been great and a few of you have not. Those few unfortunately have outweighed the many. Incessant *****ing and rude behavior have played a major role in this decision. XDA is not what it used to be, and while I'd like to say it is getting better, it is not. The current internet generation of "give me give me give because I'm entitled" is just downright unpleasant. All links, and contributions that have been shared by me site wide over the years are now inactive. I wish you all the best in your Android endeavors.
Only way to stay afloat is to ignore the negative n annoying.
It sometimes seems like it's the majority.. but there are some good users out there.. just like you. Sad to see you go.. would like you stay (but I get it).
tribalartgod said:
Thank you to all who have helped me over the years on XDA. And thank you to all the DEVs for your hard work and efforts. I will be leaving the community indefinitely just as soon as @MikeChannon receives and processes my request for full account removal. Many of you have been great and a few of you have not. Those few unfortunately have outweighed the many. Incessant *****ing and rude behavior have played a major role in this decision. XDA is not what it used to be, and while I'd like to say it is getting better, it is not. The current internet generation of "give me give me give because I'm entitled" is just downright unpleasant. All links, and contributions that have been shared by me site wide over the years are now inactive. I wish you all the best in your Android endeavors.
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I 2nd what Mr. Prime said and hope you have a change of heart.
tribalartgod said:
Thank you to all who have helped me over the years on XDA. And thank you to all the DEVs for your hard work and efforts. I will be leaving the community indefinitely just as soon as @MikeChannon receives and processes my request for full account removal. Many of you have been great and a few of you have not. Those few unfortunately have outweighed the many. Incessant *****ing and rude behavior have played a major role in this decision. XDA is not what it used to be, and while I'd like to say it is getting better, it is not. The current internet generation of "give me give me give because I'm entitled" is just downright unpleasant. All links, and contributions that have been shared by me site wide over the years are now inactive. I wish you all the best in your Android endeavors.
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Thank you for your hard work! Sending you positive vibes on your future endeavors!!! :good:
I understand your decision, but i don't understand why make all your post contributions inactive. Doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what your did before but I assume it was very helpful. If so, why not just let it be for other good people that will need help? Your decision of course. Good luck!
I have been digging in your posted threads and i see you have many threads started. Im sure many of them are helpful to others. I might not be a developer myself (yet) however, every time i see people complaining as if developers have to actually please them, I would really love that xda give them a suspension between 1 week and 6 months, in extreme case 1 year or indefinitely. One thing is to complain, and another is to let know to the developers about bugs, or problems or request or similar things in a respectful way. I, and i m sure many others, will be sorry to see you go. Of course, it's your decision to make. Best wishes
So... I have received a reply from Mike and have read the posts here about my departure... because of select members here and Mike's reply to me, I will not be leaving XDA. I take offense when people don't respect the community and it's contributors. I've been a long time member here and have seen many changes on these forums... Some of them have been great, but quite a few have not. I still feel this place is quickly being over run by "whining entitled gimme gimme's" but moving forward, I will not allow that to bother me (as much). Lastly... Thank you to those who spoke up when I made the decision to leave... It's because of you that I am staying... It shows me that there is indeed still some good people left here. I have also opened up the things that have been shared again... So if anyone has an issue with a link, let me know, and I'll edit the post to correct it. In closing...Mods, you can now lock this thread if you wish.
tribalartgod said:
So... I have received a reply from Mike and have read the posts here about my departure... because of select members here and Mike's reply to me, I will not be leaving XDA. I take offense when people don't respect the community and it's contributors. I've been a long time member here and have seen many changes on these forums... Some of them have been great, but quite a few have not. I still feel this place is quickly being over run by "whining entitled gimme gimme's" but moving forward, I will not allow that to bother me (as much). Lastly... Thank you to those who spoke up when I made the decision to leave... It's because of you that I am staying... It shows me that there is indeed still some good people left here. I have also opened up the things that have been shared again... So if anyone has an issue with a link, let me know, and I'll edit the post to correct it. In closing...Mods, you can now lock this thread if you wish.
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Glad to read this. If the thought re-emerges again. Just remember that the world has a balance. You will find good people, and you will find bad people. And XDA is not an exception to this (THE LAW OF BALANCE). Just try to ignore the beggars that seem to be too unreasonable and reckless. But also, try to sympathize with those which have a problem and at their best behavior are trying to explain the problem so the devs can solve them. Of course, Always remembering that You have the right to be "selective" of what you want to do or not. :good: :good: :good:
tribalartgod said:
So... I have received a reply from Mike and have read the posts here about my departure... because of select members here and Mike's reply to me, I will not be leaving XDA. I take offense when people don't respect the community and it's contributors. I've been a long time member here and have seen many changes on these forums... Some of them have been great, but quite a few have not. I still feel this place is quickly being over run by "whining entitled gimme gimme's" but moving forward, I will not allow that to bother me (as much). Lastly... Thank you to those who spoke up when I made the decision to leave... It's because of you that I am staying... It shows me that there is indeed still some good people left here. I have also opened up the things that have been shared again... So if anyone has an issue with a link, let me know, and I'll edit the post to correct it. In closing...Mods, you can now lock this thread if you wish.
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I've been around for a long long time. XDA for the most part has provided enthusiasts and developers a means to do things they otherwise wouldn't have the ability to do which is share information and maybe get some recognition for it. The "new" people who have flocked here have made things a bit more annoying, but its just the nature of most things as they become more mainstream. (We are all hipsters) It was a whole lot worse when android was first released.
Thread closed as per OP request.
-XDA Staff