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A number of posters either dispute or are no sure of the warranty position regarding rooting in particular .
Fact one the phone provider who is usually responsible for the first twelve months warranty can most certainly reject warranty for non original firmware or rooting .In the UK i have checked the position with O2 and Vodaphone who say they will reject under terms of their warranty .
SAMSUNG own warranty which is also usually paid in the first twelve months to the seller/repairer .
Basically say exactly the same rooting or custom rom voids warranty .
The letter on Samfirmware for starters if you don't believe .
http://www.samfirmware.com/apps/blo...cs-?&fw_comments_page=2&fw_comments_order=ASC
Extract from other sources .
ROOTING:
• Corporate recently added an additional reason for an Android handset to be considered as Out-Of-Warranty.
• Android handsets that have been subject to “rooting”, “jailbreaking” or “hacking” are no longer covered under warranty and may be grounds for termination or modification of service.
• Rooting is a process that modifies a handsets software allowing access to services not supported or tested by the Carrier or OEM.
• While there are more applications out there that allow subscribers to gain root access, a specific example seen on a Samsung Galaxy Indulge is shown below.
• If you see this application on the handset, please explain that the handset is out of warranty and be certain to access the customer’s account and add a memo that the handset has been rooted.
The picture they posted of is super user and some other ones.
another source
The reason I'm posting this now is because Samsung have only this week implemented a system for Service Centres to check if the handset has been rooted.
Point is its very easy in most cases to unroot and flash a stock firmware .
Some service guys may well turn a blind eye to rooting others may not .No good saying some guy on XDA said it was ok .
User choice but i have seen enough to convince me 100% ROOT = VOID WARRANTY .
jje
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
Coedy said:
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but its recently been disputed by some so i just pulled out my notes .
jje
^ Some people just don't get it however and seem to think they're still entitled, even if they returned it to stock and reset the counter, etc...
Individual cases may vary, maybe you'll get a "mod friendly" warranty facility, but I wouldn't feel bad for someone who gets denied warranty in the least. If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
True, i already expect that I'll void the warranty once i root my phone.. it's the point of no return..
I keep a safe distance on messing up my phone, make sure i don't get too far and ended up with a dummy display phone..
Sent from The Center of The Earth
mudferret said:
If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I would hope everyone would understand the risk before doing something like this.
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
This should be stickied with a tagline along the lines of:-
"Thinking of flashing a custom rom or kernel ? Consider this..."
I'm with Bell and I had a Rooted Atrix with cyanogenmod 7 beta 3 (back in the days..) and I had screens problems, I gave my phone to Bell and they send it to Motorola and it works flawlessly but they put me back on their motoscrap...
I'm sure Samsung will do the same thing
But thanks you anyways
harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Bam !
Beautifully put Zelendel Rooting/flashing (like throwing rocks) is all fun & games until someone gets hurt
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
They are not going to look that far .
Boot screen Custom rom possible if doing the job check for root apps /root.
As i said a lot dont even bother and just flash stock rom and repair .
But a lot is not all .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the new popularity of rooting, checking these things are becoming standard. To be honest I am glad. It will make people think first before they follow a video on youtube that is normally made by someone that has no idea what they are doing other then following a simple how to.
Modding a device is not ment for everyone. Nor should everyone do it.
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
aloy99 said:
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they can terminate your contract if you mod your phone is anyway. Not to mention charging you the full price of the phone and the rest of the contract left over.
Main reason there are warnings all over the place about knowing and understanding what you are doing before you do it.
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
You may not be entitled to a remedy if you:
damage or use goods in an unreasonable or unintended manner
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Im interested in what the laws are like in the EU.
However my own position on this is that one should be allowed to use any software and mods to software you want.
If there is a hardware malfunction they should fix it whatever software you chose to use. If you brick the bootloader they can JTAG it probably.
And this far i have never had anyone ever say anything about me using custom roms and the like.
However i would still like to know what the laws say.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
rako77 said:
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point.
Amazon repair service didn't use forensic software when I sent them a xperia Neo with the 0%-bug. They replaced it without much ado. Lucky me ;-)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
zelendel said:
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rooting does not mess with the drivers and I am defiantly not touching the cpu clock.
The only reported case of a pc manufacturer that i can find refusing to remedy a hardware problem where the operating system was changed was pc world which later stated that was not there policy and would preform a repair. international law may be different but under Australian law I have full ownership of the device and I think it is outrageous that companies try and weasel there way out of their rights to the consumer.
In my mind if the fault is there's they have to fix it and no way should they be able to say otherwise. Its really just a matter of who has the burden of proof.
I like to stay with stock so I can get movies and drm stuff,, but beginning to wonder if ICS will ever arrive for the Google IO sub model? I don't suppose anyone has authoritive info?
As far as I know they are a different build than the other tabs and will not be updated. You might be able to do it yourself with Odin.
if you do not want to lose your unlocked and fastboot enabled bootloader, do not flash the odin package as is. remove the bootloader.bin from the package and/or create yourself a CWM zip and flash.
you can use any of the HC zips i created in the past as a guide if you go the CWM route. i believe you can also find CWM flashables for it in the dev section.
however, if you get a rolling screen, you will have to modify the LCD output accordingly in the kernel and use that, so it will be compatible with your current bootloader. you can reference this in the galaxy-2636 kernel sources on my github.
Will any of those approaches preserve ability ti get /run DRM content ire from Google Play (movies?)
Short answer: The Google I/O Version of the GT-7510 is supported by Google and not by Samsung. Samsung will not be updating it or posting an OTA update. If it will be updated, it will be directly from Google.
--
Longer answer: I spent about 3 hours on the phone with 6 Samsung techs on 16AUG2012 to get that answer. The group in charge of wifi tablets doesn't handle the Google I/O tablets, and they refer you to the cellular group. The cellular group then tells you that since the tab doesn't have a cell chip, it's not in their realm. In the end, Level 2 support on the cellular group had the answer above.
His recommendation was to "search the internet" for a custom rom and flash with that. He then reminded me that the tablet is out of warranty, so flashing isn't going to void anything. I agreed, but I can only imagine how many devices he's caused people to brick if he tells everybody that.
He also went on to say that Google is preparing their next flagship tablet and it won't be a Samsung device, it'll be an Acer device. When probed, he revealed it will be smaller than the 10.1" tab and it will be out sometime around holiday season 2012. I then told him the Nexus7 was already out and he was really confused.
If anyone else wants to try, the phone number for the cellular group is 1-877-652-4507. If they try to forward you to 1-800-SAM-SUNG, just ask for a manager or level 2.
dartdog said:
I like to stay with stock so I can get movies and drm stuff,, but beginning to wonder if ICS will ever arrive for the Google IO sub model? I don't suppose anyone has authoritive info?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by stock? Vanilla android as in 3.0 and 3.1 as we originally had with these lovely I/O tabs, (so the last "Google supported" roms date from over a year ago now) or the later touchwiz offerings from Samsung not rooted etc? The I/O tab is a 7510 but with a nice exclusive back panel.
If you're still running3.1 you really are missing out on using the potential and power of this great device and can use any 7510 roms on it....
Mine is running 4.0.4 admittedly with touchwiz ( though Samsung have now 'toned it down' and it is far less cartoon-like) and it still remains one of the best performing and my most preferred tab (have zoom, transformer 101 and transformer prime ( complete cr*p).) It is rooted but of course you don't have to do that but even so gives no problems with films or dem that I have seen..
I downloaded latest Gt-p7510 ics rom from Samfirmware and flashed through Odin and it is now really flying and everything works tres bien
Screenshot attached showing movies works if that's what you mean by DRM etc...
I really can't recommend it strongly enough.... it's one of the earliest and best tabs which easily runs the latest iteration of android
Enjoy!!
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda premium
Even tho the official Roms for this device have been close to untouched, there was some Samsung things in there stock. When I had to ship my io tab in I had to use a special number but it was still Samsung. All past updates have been thru Samsung not google. The guy I spoke to also told me the io tab was suppose to b updated to ics. But that was months ago and we see how that turned out. Just flash the one for the retail tabs and take precautions for ur bootloader. I flashed it and now I'm not locked anymore but I also don't have fastboot anymore (which I don't care about anyways.) All DRM stuff will work fine with the retail roms and touchwiz on ics isn't all that bad either
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
What effect does Knox have for rooting the Galaxy Note 3?
It will permanently disable KNOX.
Is that a bad thing?? I know next to nothing about Knox, but my N3 will be here tomorrow and I'm wanting to root it.
i have similar questions.
So much threads just for questions, #Neo3d how bout trying to ask other questions in one thread instead of making heaps of threads cause to me it seems there just attention threads just to build up replys
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Knox is a secure container that is supposed to be hack proof... It is generally NOT used by the stand alone consumer and is targeted more at businesses... Remember, if you use it and something happens to your phone you are pretty much NOT gonna be able to retrieve anythng in the Knox container.
However, once you root your phone, Knox can't be run as there is a security hole if you give root(system) privileges to any non Samsung approved app...
Unfortunately Samsung forced this POS down our throat and are using it as a way to deny warranty claims - Knox warranty void...
It also tries to police what can or can't be used, there were problems with messaging apps at the beginning because of application rights.
These seem to be getting fixed but it another step on the road to us being dictated how we use our devices and not allowing us the freedom to use them as we want...
Since it is pretty clear that Samsung is not going to honor warranty service on knox tripped devices, I'm wondering of they will still fix them for a fee.
Why am I wondering? I'm curious if they can reset knox at the factory. If so, it means we can reset knox ourselves. I'm an electrical engineer and am looking into a hardware modification that would render knox useless.
In non technical terms, it would be similar to bypassing a blown fuse in your car with a piece of metal in place of the burnt fuse.
It is extremely possible, depending on the efuse they use. It's hard for me to imagine they would install the efuse in such a way that even they would be unable to reverse it.
Efuses are not new technology, and their main purpose is to act in a very simiar way to standard circuit breaker. And just like a tripped breaker, they can be reset. Its simply a matter of what type they used, and how it was implemented
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
Since it is pretty clear that Samsung is not going to honor warranty service on knox tripped devices, I'm wondering of they will still fix them for a fee.
Why am I wondering? I'm curious if they can reset knox at the factory. If so, it means we can reset knox ourselves. I'm an electrical engineer and am looking into a hardware modification that would render knox useless.
In non technical terms, it would be similar to bypassing a blown fuse in your car with a piece of metal in place of the burnt fuse.
It is extremely possible, depending on the efuse they use. It's hard for me to imagine they would install the efuse in such a way that even they would be unable to reverse it.
Efuses are not new technology, and their main purpose is to act in a very simiar way to standard circuit breaker. And just like a tripped breaker, they can be reset. Its simply a matter of what type they used, and how it was implemented
Yea its possible with a unlocked boot loader cause removing knox itself from the system is not hard but that counter is in the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jparasita said:
Yea its possible with a unlocked boot loader cause removing knox itself from the system is not hard but that counter is in the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it truly is an efuse, they are physically blown transistors due to intentional electromigration , inhibiting electron flow through the channel, basically, preventing the gate from allowing electron flow through the channel.
however, if the efuse is an external chip (most of them are, it would be added to the motherboard, just like ram, wifi chip, wacom digitizer.. etc) then that chip will either have a reset (by applying voltage to the latch) or can be bypassed physically (pulled up to Vcc).
In this case, an unlocked boot loader would not be able to bypass the blown fuse link. It may, however, be able to forgo checking the status of the efuse, but I really don't know know how its all assembled, since getting a datasheet on the board from samsung would be impossible. The only hope I have as an engineer is to examine the board and attempt to find the location of the fuse.
Here is some efuse Education:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
You may want to read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2561658
So it seems as if there is some misinformation running around on all ends. Seems logical to me to go with the Samsung knox website, where they say that hardware warranty is separate from knox warranty.
I'm going to email samsung and try to get a straight answer. I'll setup a claim for my device. I'll say it has a bad home button or something silly, then mention the knox bit is tripped. The 2 are totally unrelated, so seems like a good test.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
So it seems as if there is some misinformation running around on all ends. Seems logical to me to go with the Samsung knox website, where they say that hardware warranty is separate from knox warranty.
I'm going to email samsung and try to get a straight answer. I'll setup a claim for my device. I'll say it has a bad home button or something silly, then mention the knox bit is tripped. The 2 are totally unrelated, so seems like a good test.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be intesting to follow. Looking forward to see what happens.
An efuse is not like a standard circuit breaker at all. It is like a regular fuse. Circuit breakers are designed to be reset. They are not permanently physically modified in any way when tripped. Efuses and fuses, on the other hand, are physically burned when they are tripped, and cannot be reverted.
As far as being on a separate chip: I highly doubt this to be the case. First, to minimize power consumption no one wants to drive an extra package. Second, virtually all SoC designs incorporate an efuse bank somewhere on their chip. Though I could be wrong on this point, as there could be incentive to include them off-SoC if device remanufacturing (read: refurbishing) is a significant source of revenue for the OEM.
Source: I am a SoC design engineer for an industry outside the mobile personal electronics sector, and they are pretty much commonplace in every SoC made in at least the last 5+ years.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
flinttownbrown said:
An efuse is not like a standard circuit breaker at all. It is like a regular fuse. Circuit breakers are designed to be reset. They are not permanently physically modified in any way when tripped. Efuses and fuses, on the other hand, are physically burned when they are tripped, and cannot be reverted.
As far as being on a separate chip: I highly doubt this to be the case. First, to minimize power consumption no one wants to drive an extra package. Second, virtually all SoC designs incorporate an efuse bank somewhere on their chip. Though I could be wrong on this point, as there could be incentive to include them off-SoC if device remanufacturing (read: refurbishing) is a significant source of revenue for the OEM.
Source: I am a SoC design engineer for an industry outside the mobile personal electronics sector, and they are pretty much commonplace in every SoC made in at least the last 5+ years.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right, but my assumption is that they are not using SoC efuse's. If this were the case, they would be forced to toss boards with blown fuses. Since their goal with the efuse is not to prevent damage, but to indicate intrusuon, a way to "reset" the fuse would seem preferable.
We use several efuse's that are circuit breaker style, and not fuse.
http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/content.do?id=17031
Just one several. These can be added to any design for protection, but could also be used in this application. Once tripped they would stay tripped until reset. If the reset pin is left unused, then it can only be reset exrernally, which I suspect is the case.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
I actually contacted Samsung Canada to know if tripping Knox voids hardware warranty. This is the response I got:
Dear XXXXXX,
Thank you for contacting Samsung Customer Care.
After going through the email, we understand that you want to know if rooting voids the warranty.
I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.
I need to inform you, rooting of device will void standard manufacture's warranty.
Click on the below weblink for details about Samsung products warranty info :
http://bit.ly/1d1MfW4
For details about Knox, please contact our dedicated support for Knox at +1 855 567 5669 for further assistance.
We hope we’ve answered your inquiry. Please let us know if there are any additional questions or concerns.
You can also visit our How To & FAQ >section on the website for more product information.
We deeply value your loyalty to Samsung and are committed to provide you with the highest level of customer
service. If for any reason theinformation we provided did not resolve your issue, we have various
contact channels that are available to assist in resolving your concern
For immediate assistance with a live agent, you can chat with us here
For support by phone, you can reach us at 1-800-SAMSUNG(726-7864)
Samsung’s Social Media Team is available to assist with providing up-to-date information or answering questions.
Visit us on Facebook
Visit us on Twitter
Thank you for being a Samsung Customer!
Kind Regards,
Sandy
Samsung Customer Care
http://www.samsung.com/ca
Our goal is to provide our customers with the best customer service possible. Please complete the following customer service survey based on customer experience with your agent.
Your feedback will enable us to see how we're doing overall and find out how we can improve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't really seem like they understood the question, but whatever. Guess I'll avoid rooting until someone figures out a 0x0 method, if at all. Its weird because people in the S4 forum asked the same thing about Knox and warranty and Samsung's response was that the phone should still retain hardware warranty.
i just wanted to note that samsung will still cover hardware defects if you use knox.
smac7 said:
i just wanted to note that samsung will still cover hardware defects if you use knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source of your sentence?
It depends on which defects they are... and the proof that the issue is related to factory defects is on your charge...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
francanna said:
Source of your sentence?
It depends on which defects they are... and the proof that the issue is related to factory defects is on your charge...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
transcript from my conversation.
General Info
Chat start time Oct 9, 2013 6:59:14 PM EST
Chat end time Oct 9, 2013 7:10:06 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:10:51
Operator Vivian C
Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
info: All Samsung Agents are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A Samsung Agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Vivian C'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK111790932073X
Vivian C: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
shane: Hi.
shane: i have a question in regards to warrenty on the new galaxy note 10.1
Vivian C: Hi, please go ahead with the query?
shane: I understand that rooting will void the warranty for software issues and anything related to rooting, but does it also void it for issues such as a broken power button or a physical problem with the screen.
shane: Basically, are hardware issues unrelated to root still covered?
Vivian C: Yes, they are covered but no physical damages to the unit.
Vivian C: I can understand how important this is to you.
shane: so you mean as long as it doesn't appear to be the consumers fault (drops for example) then its fine?
Vivian C: I could certainly relate to what you are going through as I am a consumer myself.
Vivian C: The hardware issues are covered if it is under warranty.
shane: ok thank you for the info. that's all i wanted to know before i went through with my purchase
Vivian C: I appreciate the patience you displayed while we worked together on this issue.
Vivian C: Thank you for chatting with us. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
smac7 said:
transcript from my conversation.
General Info
Chat start time Oct 9, 2013 6:59:14 PM EST
Chat end time Oct 9, 2013 7:10:06 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:10:51
Operator Vivian C
Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
info: All Samsung Agents are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A Samsung Agent will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Vivian C'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK111790932073X
Vivian C: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
shane: Hi.
shane: i have a question in regards to warrenty on the new galaxy note 10.1
Vivian C: Hi, please go ahead with the query?
shane: I understand that rooting will void the warranty for software issues and anything related to rooting, but does it also void it for issues such as a broken power button or a physical problem with the screen.
shane: Basically, are hardware issues unrelated to root still covered?
Vivian C: Yes, they are covered but no physical damages to the unit.
Vivian C: I can understand how important this is to you.
shane: so you mean as long as it doesn't appear to be the consumers fault (drops for example) then its fine?
Vivian C: I could certainly relate to what you are going through as I am a consumer myself.
Vivian C: The hardware issues are covered if it is under warranty.
shane: ok thank you for the info. that's all i wanted to know before i went through with my purchase
Vivian C: I appreciate the patience you displayed while we worked together on this issue.
Vivian C: Thank you for chatting with us. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's all and nothing. Samsung VP told in knox website that warranty policies may be different country by country. In general it is true what I said before. You are supposed to prove that the defect is non software related. E.G. zif your screen stops working or you experience motherboard issues, Samsung may say it depends on overclock or other root related stuff.
So what remains you is just power button failure...
Inviato dal mio GT-N5100 con Tapatalk 4
^ Nice, I should follow up with Samsung Canada through live chat because at the very least this gives me a bit more confidence to root without having any hardware warranty concerns. However I wonder if they can still refuse warranty "just because" even though it may have been confirmed by their online agents.
I am left wondering how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, and all the case law that led to it's enactment, would relate to Samsung's apparent unwillingness to honor a warranty claim related to hardware issues on a rooted (modified) device when Samsung is unable to show that the rooting of the device was the direct cause of the hardware failure.
I think it is time that a group of consumers tripped the Knox counter on their devices by rooting, and sent them in to Samsung for a hardware related repair such as a bad home button or a screen failure and then see if Samsung will honor the warranty or deny the claim solely based on said tripped Knox counter.
If Samsung denies the claim without showing just cause, the group could then show harm and either file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (here in the US) or they could file a class action law suit against Samsung if they could find an attorney(s) stupid enough to do it.
There is nothing in the Samsung Terms of Service that precludes class actions as AT&T does.
JACK4HIRE said:
I am left wondering how the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, and all the case law that led to it's enactment, would relate to Samsung's apparent unwillingness to honor a warranty claim related to hardware issues on a rooted (modified) device when Samsung is unable to show that the rooting of the device was the direct cause of the hardware failure.
I think it is time that a group of consumers tripped the Knox counter on their devices by rooting, and sent them in to Samsung for a hardware related repair such as a bad home button or a screen failure and then see if Samsung will honor the warranty or deny the claim solely based on said tripped Knox counter.
If Samsung denies the claim without showing just cause, the group could then show harm and either file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (here in the US) or they could file a class action law suit against Samsung if they could find an attorney(s) stupid enough to do it.
There is nothing in the Samsung Terms of Service that precludes class actions as AT&T does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People, it will be exactely as it has been so far: do you remember that Samsung has put a modified device counter in its device for years? What happens to you warranty today if you root a Galaxy S2 and do not use CF Triangle Away?
Some hardware issues have been passed under warranty, some others not.
Some display failures may depend on kernel settings; motherboard issues may depend on voltage and frequencies that are kernel related. Be sure this will not covered.
Hardware buttons are not sw related and will be repaired.
But who wants to keep a warranty limited to 3 hw buttons?
francanna said:
People, it will be exactely as it has been so far: do you remember that Samsung has put a modified device counter in its device for years? What happens to you warranty today if you root a Galaxy S2 and do not use CF Triangle Away?
Some hardware issues have been passed under warranty, some others not.
Some display failures may depend on kernel settings; motherboard issues may depend on voltage and frequencies that are kernel related. Be sure this will not covered.
Hardware buttons are not sw related and will be repaired.
But who wants to keep a warranty limited to 3 hw buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that we do not have custom kernels, all root has given us is apps like titanium, and other root style apps. We can't modify any voltage settings, or anything that could damage the device. Need a kernel for that.
The only thing you could do right now is flash bad firmware, and brick. But that's possible with or with out root. Any time you flash firmware there is a possibility of bricking. Seems illogical that just because I can use titanium backup and xposed, means a failed update from mk1 to ml1 would be the fault of root. They are not even related. That's like saying installing a new stereo in my car caused the engine to blow a headgasket.
Remember, root only affects the running and booted operating system. Once you are in recovery, or download mode.. root has nothing to do with it. just like in windows. When you install a windows program, if you shutdown and boot to bios.. that program doesn't exist as far as the computer is concerned. Only after it has booted the main hard drive and read the proper master boot record, and loads windows does that program exist.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
Given that we do not have custom kernels, all root has given us is apps like titanium, and other root style apps. We can't modify any voltage settings, or anything that could damage the device. Need a kernel for that.
The only thing you could do right now is flash bad firmware, and brick. But that's possible with or with out root. Any time you flash firmware there is a possibility of bricking. Seems illogical that just because I can use titanium backup and xposed, means a failed update from mk1 to ml1 would be the fault of root. They are not even related. That's like saying installing a new stereo in my car caused the engine to blow a headgasket.
Remember, root only affects the running and booted operating system. Once you are in recovery, or download mode.. root has nothing to do with it. just like in windows. When you install a windows program, if you shutdown and boot to bios.. that program doesn't exist as far as the computer is concerned. Only after it has booted the main hard drive and read the proper master boot record, and loads windows does that program exist.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, BUT...
Today we have no custom kernel on Note 2014, but as soon as Samsung releases the source code we will have. For Note 3 custom kernels do exist.
So, generally speaking, I may root the phone, flash a custom kernel and, in case of disaster, restore stock kernel.
That is why even a simple root is considered non samsung system modification... and Knox activates the efuse in case of any non samsung system modification because it needs the system to be perfectly integer and Samsung certified for business reasons (BYOD strategies).
Finally: no root means no kernel no rom... no problem for Samsung.
I am not justifying Samsung. Only trying to explain their logic.
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk
francanna said:
You are right, BUT...
Today we have no custom kernel on Note 2014, but as soon as Samsung releases the source code we will have. For Note 3 custom kernels do exist.
So, generally speaking, I may root the phone, flash a custom kernel and, in case of disaster, restore stock kernel.
That is why even a simple root is considered non samsung system modification... and Knox activates the efuse in case of any non samsung system modification because it needs the system to be perfectly integer and Samsung certified for business reasons (BYOD strategies).
Finally: no root means no kernel no rom... no problem for Samsung.
I am not justifying Samsung. Only trying to explain their logic.
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, although they should make a business version and a consumer version. But......like THAT would ever happen lol. Seems silly to force business solutions onto a consumer, non business customer experience. I assume samsung is going to be pushing knox into all their new devices.. which kinda blows the whole "for business" slogan of knox. I have to think , not many samsung smartphone/tablets are used in a Purley business application.
Ahh...such is life. If they can make it, we can break it....
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Serinety said:
True, although they should make a business version and a consumer version. But......like THAT would ever happen lol. Seems silly to force business solutions onto a consumer, non business customer experience. I assume samsung is going to be pushing knox into all their new devices.. which kinda blows the whole "for business" slogan of knox. I have to think , not many samsung smartphone/tablets are used in a Purley business application.
Ahh...such is life. If they can make it, we can break it....
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you know Blackberry is almost out of the market and Windows Phone has not such a great appeal. That is a huge oppotunity for Samsung, but they have to face Android bad reputation as an "unsecure" system.
That is the main reason for Knox.
"Security" and "data integrity" are marketing messages they decided to spend also in consumer market... although we know that most of people would not need neither use Knox.
Moreover Samsung well knows that modders are only a very small part of the consumer universe. Although Samsung NEEDS modder's community.
My note: IMHO Android security problems are NOT directly related to rooting... on the contrary, rooting (URDLV, for example) would use system exploits... but it is true that having a rooted device increases the possibilities of possible security issues for un-aware people.
People still think that rooting is required for having "cracked applications" and things link that.
I am just another angry user, after the "fabulous" android 4.4.2 implementation made by Samsung for my (previously) beloved note3.
This is intended to be a an indictment made for a public conviction of Samsung, for what they did, and also a cry for help.
Please, if you have counterarguments and/or practical advices, expose them here.
I'm expecting at least an official position from Samsung, considering that customers of a 700 Euro flagship phablet deserve their complete attention.
I'm an Orange Romania customer, and I was one of the happy users of note3 (Orange firmware) until several days ago, when I decided to give up to the upgrade invitation message arrived, to move up to 4.4.2.
What I received:
1. The first and most important problem: no call recording program is working anymore. I do need such a program, because I receive a lot (I mean A LOT) of tasks and situations, only by voice calls, daily. Anyway, i really do not think I need to justify my needs, but I'm prepared to do it if absolutely necessary. Where is the solution, my "dear" Samsung ?
2. I'm not able anymore to read my IMAP4 mail account without activating synchronization. In the previous 4.3 version, with synchronization disabled, I was able to refresh manually the mail. Of course, with synchronization now enabled, the battery is drained in a day or less.
3. iGO cannot be used with maps and content kept on SD Card anymore. I've taken that SD card especially for my phone, now I am not able to use it. This is like a curse of Samsung, thrown in my face !
4. Adobe flash is now completely unusable. I used flash with dolphin very well on previous 4.3. Now, that hacked version presented here (thank you XDA) is extremely slow even on this monster hardware that is note 3. Where is that big difference from Apple, one of the reasons I've switched to Android several years ago, to be able to browse flash sites ?
5. If I'm not happy with an "improvement" offered by manufacturer, I think I'm entitled to request to keep my previous system, without any penalties (only at most with some excuses), but Samsung do not let me go back to the previous behavior of my phone. So, I'm not free anymore to use my own device as I wanted to do ? What the hell? What is then the difference that Samsung made in terms of freedom of use compared to Apple, well-known for their restrictions paranoia ? The freedom of Android and the efficiency of Samsung made me switch from Apple for good, several years ago, without regrets, but now Samsung seems that they started on the same path of restrictions. Maybe is time to look somewhere else and switch again...
I really think Samsung has to solve this. But not next month or next week, nor even tomorrow. Samsung must do something NOW: or a patch, or the ability to switch back to the exact previous behavior with 4.3
Thank you all for your opinions and (of course) valuable solutions.
LE:
Finally, after a long pain, a lot of nerves, but thanks to the supporting messages posted here, I've succeeded to "downgrade" my Note3 with kitkat , by changing it with a new one with latest JB 4.3 version, just asking for tech support at Orange and Samsung. If anyone interested, please read all thread, I simply asked them to restore lost functionalities, but I think I was really angry so their solution was to change the device.
Maybe some sticky messages (suggested in my post here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=51890578&postcount=22 would be useful for a lot of us).
The biggest problem is the Knox trigger that voids the warranty. I paid a lot of money for this phone and I should be able to use it however I want, rooted or unrooted, and they should have no right to void my warranty based on this.
I'm thinking to root this device and if I ever need to send the phone for repair and they won't, I'll play dumb and call for consumer rights.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3
lvnatic said:
The biggest problem is the Knox trigger that voids the warranty. I paid a lot of money for this phone and I should be able to use it however I want, rooted or unrooted, and they should have no right to void my warranty based on this.
I'm thinking to root this device and if I ever need to send the phone for repair and they won't, I'll play dumb and call for consumer rights.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to buy this phone later but after reading the op I think I will wait first or look elsewhere. Samsung is really copying apple and apple should sue them again...
1. Call recording is working, there's a mod for that, but ur device should be rooted.
2-3. I dunno never use.
4. Flash player is working. There's a way to enable it in Kk, and can be used with boat browser (dunno others).
As for go back to 4.3, it is unable due to the bootloader installed. They keep on making patches to the bootloader. Something that we cannot stop them.
@nm8 : samsung vs apple = never ending stories.
Sent from N7105, DN3 with AGNi kernel.
I could understand why all android devices manufacturers are trying to keep their customers away from rooting, this is just because possible increases in customer support expenses.
But of course, I don't want to break my warranty agreement, and with 4.3 I didn't feel the need to root the note 3, it was completely functional.
@nm8 - Yes, Apple could sue Samsung again, now Samsung is copying even the worst habits from Apple, I don't understand that crayziness of Samsung.
@antique_sonic - Thank you, I know about the mod for call recording, but as I said, I want to play fair and safe, to keep my warranty. And the same with adobe flash, it worked perfectly in 4.3, why do I need now that headaches ?
There are also a lot of other troubles with SD Card in 4.4.2, just another example: I'm not able to keep my apps backed up with ES file explorer on SD Card anymore. I used to make copies of my apps because I've met sometimes problems with some apps after updates, so I was able to return to the previous version of that app (AirFun from Realtek is just an example of an app that lost some functionalities after update, so I was able to install the previous working version from backup).
I wonder if there are some "eyes" from Samsung staff on this forum, what is their official opinion about all these complains ?
Thank you,
You do realize the SDcard issue is GOOGLE's doing, not Samsung's?
Google updates the Kitkat permissions, Samsung had nothing to do withit. Any issues with apps you need to complain to their developers to update their permissions.
Thank you ShadowLea, most probably you're right in technical terms.
BUT the real problem is, if I'm not happy with this change in Google's android policy, as a Samsung's customer, I need to be able to choose to keep my previous functions as they were before upgrade. In other words, I must be able to revert to 4.3, without any pain, penalties and so on, at most with excuses from Samsung. Because Samsung is now forcing me to stay at 4.4.2, not Google ! Is it fair ?
Thank you,
The flash player problem is also Google and not Samsung.
Life isn't fair and Samsung already have your money so why should they care?
It's not like the other options are any better. None of the other manufacturers care about you either.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
dr.m0x said:
The flash player problem is also Google and not Samsung.
Life isn't fair and Samsung already have your money so why should they care?
It's not like the other options are any better. None of the other manufacturers care about you either.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He should root the monster and be happy. Like me. Lol
Sent from my ME173X using xda premium
He should root the monster and be happy. Like me. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you're right, but what about losing the warranty, if I will really need it in the future ?
Or maybe there is already out there a complete reversable rooting method for 4.4.2 that I don't know about ?
Thank you,
@dr.m0x - Ok, let's try to change something about this !
Still have no idea how to do it, but there must be a solution ! We must be the real owners of our paid devices, and we must be able to use them by our own rules, not their rules!
Thank you,
nick61 said:
Maybe you're right, but what about losing the warranty, if I will really need it in the future ?
Or maybe there is already out there a complete reversable rooting method for 4.4.2 that I don't know about ?
Thank you,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
reversable in terms of unroot = YES
reversable in terms of KNOX flag = NO (bounty hunter for this has reached $3K+, yet no one claims)
nick61 said:
@dr.m0x - Ok, let's try to change something about this !
Still have no idea how to do it, but there must be a solution ! We must be the real owners of our paid devices, and we must be able to use them by our own rules, not their rules!
Thank you,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at the moment to be the "real owner" in terms to be able to fully utilize is only to root your device, and those "headache" setting for flash player. But "real owner" to be able to reverse KNOX flag is still a NO answer at the moment.
And "real owner" to be able to reverse/downgrade bootloader (without any problem), also stil a NO at the moment
Just do a few testing of common issue on Note 3 + read properly on how to root + use any other custom thingy (follow properly what the thread said), you are good to go.
Warranty so far is needed for those who never try to understand first what is the thread said.
Though all the devs here develop thing just for hobbies and free (donation is optional), they will do all the necessary testing on their device first before releasing it out. So, if their device can work, similar device to them should be able to work properly (doesn't necessary to claim your warranty, unless there's a hardware failure due to several tweaking you eager to try yourself without reading properly)
All I wrote here is just my opinion, just a thought. You may not agree, and not necessary to follow.
I'm totally with you... This actually looks like a "Double - penetration" by Sammy AND Google two companies destined to lose costumers... See? http://bbc.com/news/business-26933449
My unrooted, bloatware-ated, kit-kat-ed note 3 is half useful in practical terms than the rooted S3 I gave to my wife, if it weren't for the screen size, I would have change it with the old S3.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
I'm samsung user from galaxy s2, note 1. And now note 3. I'm happy to use both devices on previous.
But since knox implementation on note 3. I feel like stuck in some where I cannot do any what I want on the phone.
I though that having note 3 will same as having note 1 and s2. Freedom...
So, this probably will my last samsung device. Will switch to other brand if i change phone.
Sent from my SM-N9005
When you look at the perspective of root/ void warranty everybrand is more or less the same except nexus and sime new china brands like xiaomi or oppo. In htc you void your warranty by unlockibg bootloader. Sony same thing (sony devices you can backup your ta) lg as qfuses and the list can be larger.
I had twice problems with samsung knoxed devices (2 s4) and they never rejected warranty repairs. And you can allways kill your device in order to cheat samsung service. Like they cheat you putt a flag on your phone. So I decided to trip mine again and if they refuse warranty I will be give them a nice war.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Thank you all for your empathy and support.
Encouraged by all these messages, I've succeeded yesterday to CHANGE THE NOTE3 with a new one with latest 4.3 version at Orange service.
I don't know if they agreed to solve my request only because my old client status, but the service tech guy from Orange, specialized in Samsung devices, spent over 4 hours looking for all the flaws and troubles I've mentioned with 4.4.2. Also, he had several long phone conversations with a tech guy from Samsung.
My advice to everyone in the same situation is to try everything they could try, and also, if possible, DO NOT UPDATE TO 4.4.2 !
Now my device is completely restored to full functionalities: call recording, flash sites with the last official adobe flash apk and dolphin and reasonable speed, battery is again lasting at least 2 days of heavy use (calls, net, video, mails, everyday notes etc.)
Also, I've learned that even the "inside" guys from tech support have no other clever solution to downgrade or to solve my problems.
Both Orange and Samsung tech guys promised to inform and escalate my complaints about 4.4.2 implementation so maybe there will be a patch in the near future.
Thanks again XDA,
nick61 said:
I am just another angry user, after the "fabulous" android 4.4.2 implementation made by Samsung for my (previously) beloved note3.
This is intended to be a an indictment made for a public conviction of Samsung, for what they did, and also a cry for help.
Please, if you have counterarguments and/or practical advices, expose them here.
I'm expecting at least an official position from Samsung, considering that customers of a 700 Euro flagship phablet deserve their complete attention.
I'm an Orange Romania customer, and I was one of the happy users of note3 (Orange firmware) until several days ago, when I decided to give up to the upgrade invitation message arrived, to move up to 4.4.2.
What I received:
1. The first and most important problem: no call recording program is working anymore. I do need such a program, because I receive a lot (I mean A LOT) of tasks and situations, only by voice calls, daily. Anyway, i really do not think I need to justify my needs, but I'm prepared to do it if absolutely necessary. Where is the solution, my "dear" Samsung ?
2. I'm not able anymore to read my IMAP4 mail account without activating synchronization. In the previous 4.3 version, with synchronization disabled, I was able to refresh manually the mail. Of course, with synchronization now enabled, the battery is drained in a day or less.
3. iGO cannot be used with maps and content kept on SD Card anymore. I've taken that SD card especially for my phone, now I am not able to use it. This is like a curse of Samsung, thrown in my face !
4. Adobe flash is now completely unusable. I used flash with dolphin very well on previous 4.3. Now, that hacked version presented here (thank you XDA) is extremely slow even on this monster hardware that is note 3. Where is that big difference from Apple, one of the reasons I've switched to Android several years ago, to be able to browse flash sites ?
5. If I'm not happy with an "improvement" offered by manufacturer, I think I'm entitled to request to keep my previous system, without any penalties (only at most with some excuses), but Samsung do not let me go back to the previous behavior of my phone. So, I'm not free anymore to use my own device as I wanted to do ? What the hell? What is then the difference that Samsung made in terms of freedom of use compared to Apple, well-known for their restrictions paranoia ? The freedom of Android and the efficiency of Samsung made me switch from Apple for good, several years ago, without regrets, but now Samsung seems that they started on the same path of restrictions. Maybe is time to look somewhere else and switch again...
I really think Samsung has to solve this. But not next month or next week, nor even tomorrow. Samsung must do something NOW: or a patch, or the ability to switch back to the exact previous behavior with 4.3
1....pe forum gasesti versiunea modificata pentru adobe flash care merge f bine pe kitkat cu firefox de exemplu.
2. Daca copiezi continutul igo pe internal nu pe external o sa iti functioneze perfect. Oricum asta e vina google si nu samsung, si mai avem si 32 interni, deci destul loc
3. Pentru mail iti recomand K-9 mail client il regasesti pe play store.
4. Inregistrarea convorbirilor e putintel ilegala fara mandat...deci...cred totusi ca te plangi prea tare pt niste chestii care din cate stiu eu au toate rezolvare pe aici pe la xda
My poit is that all of his problems has an workaround here on xda. Only first one need a root. The rest of them is a metter of minutes of searching xda.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@calinormy
Thank you for your message (let's keep it in english if anyone else is interested).
Point by point (in fact covered in the first post):
1. Yes, I've already tried the hacked flash for 4.4.2, is unbelievable slow on such a monster (hardware speaking) as note3. Official old version is stable and flawless in 4.3
2. Ok, that's true, but I want to use the internal speedy memory for other stuff, and I want to organize files on my own rules, not their's... yes, this is a Google's problem, but my request to Samsung is to let me downgrade from 4.4.2 if I do not like it.
3. I'll check it
4. Concerning call recording, the legal issues are exclusively my problems, not Samsung's. In fact, is not even a legal problem, if the other person is informed about recording.
But please read my last post, they've changed my phone with another new one with 4.3 !
Thank you,
Glad you got your problems sorted. KK is ****, said the man who refuses to try it. Because it's ****
New firmware doesn't always mean better. For me, Gingerbread was a hell of a lot better than ICS.
To be frank... I don't know what the hell is beneficial "for me" by upgrading to kitkat All the changes in KitKat are about implementing restrictions by Samsung or Google If I wanted to be restricted I would have chosen an iPhone in the first place... They simply sh&#tted on what all android is about :silly: and the as#hole sammy even lured people into upgrading. Never again will I trust all those official phone reviewers on forums or youtube... the ordinary man's experience is what counts.