As an owner of both Samsung and Apple products I think I'm in a position to give a fair opinion on things. The one thing that really gets to me sometimes however is the assumption that Apple are always the pioneer of things, and that if any other manufacturer has a similar feature then they MUST be ripping Off Apple.
This is NOT the case with S-Voice.
The reason I bring this up is because, in light of the introduction of the Galaxy S3, people have been quick to decide that Samsung is ripping off Apple AGAIN with this product. 'It's just like Siri' people are quick to assume. Well as a British user of Siri I beg to differ, and I present these points to the doubters:
S-Talk - is simply a contraction of Samsung Talk, the name given to the Vlingo based app brought about by double tapping the Home button on the Galaxy S2. This app was integrated into the product at launch, and can do many of the things that Siri can do, though with less effective natural speech algorithms. The fact remains though that Samsung integrated a hardware-button-linked voice command feature into the i9100 a full SIX MONTHS before Siri was even announced. What we have here is two large companies buying into a voice command feature created by another company (Siri, in Apple's case; Vlingo in Samsung's case). Both of these pieces of software are or were downloadable for older devices in a less effective way upon release of the respective handset.
So with the S3 Samsung have taken it a step further. With the S3 I will be able to do a huge number of things I cannot do with Siri, such as changing the volume, switching cellular connections on and off and even getting information on businesses in the UK. What a revelation. These are all things I want to be able to do with Siri but can't because Apple, in their infinite wisdom, decide that we don't need these features for the time being. Samsung have beaten them to it. So just as Siri improved upon Vlingo in the S2, six months down the line this improves on Siri in the 4S.
It's natural evolution.
So who's ripping off whom?
I don't think Samsung help their own cause sometimes: the obvious digs at Apple in their adverts are disappointingly childish in my opinion; but I just don't get what they've done wrong here. Are we just supposed to bow down to Apple as the inspiration for voice command just because it was the only compelling feature on their latest phone, on which they spent millions of dollars to ensure that we were blinded by the hype around its features?
I'd be interested to hear everyone else's take on this.
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emmm if anyone say that they copied from apple, then apple copied from nokia. Because this feature nokia had long time ago before iphone however it wasnt so advanced like now siri, but idea was copied ^^
I agree with this assessment.
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Voice control is nothing new. Windows mobile had it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFcqwKrxtO8&feature=related
Yes I know this but I was comparing current market competitors. Windows mobile also had touch screens before Apple but it doesn't really say a lot.
come on~ we all know samsung just improve "voice command" to getting more better features xD
Neither Apple nor Samsung has done anything special other than develop an app based upon third party software....the phrase "rip-off" is a flagrant disconnect of understanding..
For an understanding of the history of speech recognition, wiki Nuance Communications, Dragon Systems, Vlingo & ScanSoft... voice recognition has been a hotbed of incestuous activity in the Boston area since the 80's
Only thing Apple is always pioneer in, is buying patent and societies.
Siri was first developped for android and BB when Apple bought it and maid it iphone only.
And it' what append with chomp.
Seems to me the territory has been sitting there and Samsung, Apple et al have just been mapping it with various levels of success. What I mean is that anybody could predict that voice interaction is an essential evolution, as is gesture actions and augmented reality. It's just a question of developing the tech that can deliver. The idea that Apple 'invented' this via Siri is like saying that the person who invented the horse and cart also invented the notion of speed.
I like to imagine 10 years down the line what we'll be able to do. 'phones' probably won't even exist as we know them now. I guess the goal is to remove the hardware as much as possible from the ability to access data.Another example are bluetooth headphones...great idea but so far audibly poor substitutes for good quality wired alternatives but that bridge will be crossed in a year or two.
The only fear I have is the effect of all this increased radio-activity on our brains...
I had voice commands in my ancient Motorola Slvr L7i.
Who is copying whom?
leoni1980 said:
As an owner of both Samsung and Apple products I think I'm in a position to give a fair opinion on things. The one thing that really gets to me sometimes however is the assumption that Apple are always the pioneer of things, and that if any other manufacturer has a similar feature then they MUST be ripping Off Apple.
This is NOT the case with S-Voice.
The reason I bring this up is because, in light of the introduction of the Galaxy S3, people have been quick to decide that Samsung is ripping off Apple AGAIN with this product. 'It's just like Siri' people are quick to assume. Well as a British user of Siri I beg to differ, and I present these points to the doubters:
S-Talk - is simply a contraction of Samsung Talk, the name given to the Vlingo based app brought about by double tapping the Home button on the Galaxy S2. This app was integrated into the product at launch, and can do many of the things that Siri can do, though with less effective natural speech algorithms. The fact remains though that Samsung integrated a hardware-button-linked voice command feature into the i9100 a full SIX MONTHS before Siri was even announced. What we have here is two large companies buying into a voice command feature created by another company (Siri, in Apple's case; Vlingo in Samsung's case). Both of these pieces of software are or were downloadable for older devices in a less effective way upon release of the respective handset.
So with the S3 Samsung have taken it a step further. With the S3 I will be able to do a huge number of things I cannot do with Siri, such as changing the volume, switching cellular connections on and off and even getting information on businesses in the UK. What a revelation. These are all things I want to be able to do with Siri but can't because Apple, in their infinite wisdom, decide that we don't need these features for the time being. Samsung have beaten them to it. So just as Siri improved upon Vlingo in the S2, six months down the line this improves on Siri in the 4S.
It's natural evolution.
So who's ripping off whom?
I don't think Samsung help their own cause sometimes: the obvious digs at Apple in their adverts are disappointingly childish in my opinion; but I just don't get what they've done wrong here. Are we just supposed to bow down to Apple as the inspiration for voice command just because it was the only compelling feature on their latest phone, on which they spent millions of dollars to ensure that we were blinded by the hype around its features?
I'd be interested to hear everyone else's take on this.
Sent from my iPad
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I agree with this. Please remember that every company has innovative ideas but can get can get caught in the crossfire of legal red tape.
Apple go think of suing samsung n google
APPLE GO THINK OF SUING SAMSUNG N GOOGLE rather than innovating
think abt how pricy th nxt fone vl b
whilst android manufacturers vl think abt hw to offer best in tech at worthy prices
Ppl copy other ppl probably every day. So any innovator probably based his invention on sth. he copied from s/o else.
There is a distinct line between offering similar features and patent infringement.
Ppl. here have pointed out that voice recognition has been implemented by other handset manufacturers before. But the buck does not stop there. There has been voice recognition on PCs before that and so on...
My answer to the Apple Fanboy, "Thanks for asking, it works very well. I heard that they buried Steve face down, so feel free to swing by and kiss his @ss."
the better analogy is saying that Apple says they invented the horse. given that Siri without the voice recognition is like talking to a brick
The core technology used by vlingo, siri, s voice, dragon systems is all the same..
virgopunk said:
The idea that Apple 'invented' this via Siri is like saying that the person who invented the horse and cart also invented the notion of speed.
...
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I have a friendly rivalry going with a tech savvy iPhone co-worker.
My first smartphone was the Galaxy S, and I remember using Google Voice Actions and voice search to demonstrate Android's coolness way back before Siri. The novelty wore off, but the debate continued on various fronts.
Months later, after a lot of back and forth of whether to go Galaxy S2 or iPhone 4s, he went with Apple. I had downloaded the Android Assistant, and we had the smartphone voice battles going on again. And here we are again half a year later re-hashing the Siri vs Android voice debate.
Samsung had incorporated Sensory's voice-activation technology first in the S2 (which came before iPhone's Siri), then followed with it built into the Note's S-voice and now the Galaxy S3:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...n-to-the-samsung-galaxy-hi-galaxy-1652657.htm
Voice control of computing devices has been a holy grail of AI and pop sci-fi since at least the original Star Trek. The sheep simply have short attention spans and little knowledge of history outside pop culture, of which the iPhone is a centerpiece, yes?
http://socialbarrel.com/sensory-voi...alds-truly-hands-free-mobile-device-operation
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Also, take a look at this picture presented by Sensory, Inc.
http://www.sensoryinc.com/products/trulyhandsfreevoicecontrol.html
It's a clear breakdown of the various parts needed in intelligent voice-controlled computing devices.
The smartphone is going to win this phase of The Singularity.
Related
Well, things are not looking very good for Samsung right at the moment. A judge in Germany has declared that until this whole IP lawsuit by Apple is settled, Samsung cannot sell their new Galaxy Tab 10.1 anywhere in the EU except for the Netherlands. A similar ruling in Australia previously blocked sales down under as well.
Many pundits are saying they expect this to be the first falling rocks of a judicial landslide in Apple's favor that will savage Samsung's reputation as a rising player in the mobile space and force them to either withdraw most of the Galaxy line of products from sale or pay a massive sum to Apple...or possibly both.
This decision and the mindset behind it pisses me off. Remember that a lie unchallenged becomes the truth, and may then be used to support further lies. The lies that have become truth amongst the digital intelligentsia due to being unchallenged (or at least by having the challenges shouted down too often) are that "Apple invented the GUI" (not true, that was Xerox), that "Apple invented the Smartphone" (not true, that was probably Palm with the Treo or Nokia) and that "Apple invented using Apps" (not true, I had some great Apps on my PocketPC and my Treo both, only they were still called Programs). You can read those same fables almost every day, with the word "invented" being used in place of the more honest terms "popularized" or "helped develop", on almost all tech blogs and newspapers on the net.
Those fables are now being used to support the far broader fable that "Apple invented mobile computing" which to a degree was upheld by this German judge when he supported Apple's claim that any flat rectangle with a large touch screen is essential stolen from Cupertino. This sort of thinking, for all kinds of reasons, is just plain wrong.
So at first I fumed...but then I thought it all through again, and saw that the worst case scenario may not be so bad after all, and that to a degree Samsung brought it on themselves. Are Galaxy products similar to Apple iOS devices? Sure, especially the TouchWiz GUI. Faced with a market that clearly loved the way the iPhone looked and operated, Samsung opted to give them a slightly tweaked version of what they loved rather then try to convince them to try something new. It is tough to blame them...look at Microsoft. All critics agreed that Windows Phone 7 was fresh and innovative and a good start that would improve rapidly...and consumers STILL stayed away in droves. MS is staying the course and betting that eventually WP7 will catch on, but that takes a company willing to burn an enormous amount of money and patience...which most companies just can't do the way that Redmond can.
Therefore Samsung pandered to the public's current tastes and may now pay the price for that....but we as users may see something good come out of this.
Am I the only one that is bored to tears by the iOS interface? Can't we move beyond the minimalist Apple design concept that seems to inspire almost every phone and tablet available today? Perhaps if the courts side with Apple in this lawsuit, it will force Samsung and other tech companies to innovate again, to take risks on new form factors and different ways to present content and features, to go beyond the big rectangle with the large touchscreen and the app icons. If products are not allowed to look like an iPhone anymore, what WILL new products look like? I have no idea...and I like that.
People have spent a lot of time looking for an iPhone/iPad killer...but for a product to truly compete with those heavyweights it has to first of all be DIFFERENT from them. Experience has shown that if you try to beat Steve Jobs at his own game, you will lose and just be another snide jab in his next keynote. For a product to succeed it first has to stand out in both form and function. Win or lose, hopefully this lawsuit will make that clear to Samsung....or somebody.
EDIT: Here is an interesting note...Samsung is not alone in being a target for Apple's ire. They are also suing Motorola in Europe over the design of the Xoom. COuld a similar injunction be seen soon that will end Xoom sales in Europe? Read the details at http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/apple-is-also-suing-motorola-in-europe.html
I will hope apple lose in their anti competitive behavior. If apple win this battle, there will be more ridiculous court case eg, Toshiba will sue apple for the 'look and feel' like a computer, IBM will sue cos having the word 'OS' , Ford will sue every car with four wheels, MS will sue any system for having a boot up screen... I want my galaxy tab 8.9 now!!!!
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don't wanna be a smartshitter but Ford didn't invent the car my friend^^
That was Mr Daimler from Germany who build the "first" car and Mr Benz who build the first "modern" car years before Ford...and who knows what these nasty germans will do^^
greetz
MasterJam882 said:
don't wanna be a smartshitter but Ford didn't invent the car my friend^^
That was Mr Benz from Germany...and who knows what these nasty germans will do^^
greetz
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True, but Ford spent a lot of time and newsprint saying that Ford invented the "mass produced" car, eventually dropping the mass produced part. Now if you ask people what the first car was, a sizable majority (especially in the US) will say the Model T Ford. Just like most people now would say that Apple invented the Tablet.
rschenck did you have a look at the actual community design in question? for me it looks like if this lawsuite is a win for apple, nobody else will be allowed to actually built tablets anymore... so i guess this will just hold back the tab 10.1 for a while on european market, but not stop samsung at all...
edit: and this has solely to do with the case design, nothing about the interface there...
rschenck, an excellent post about a very important subject. I agree that this could be a reason for Samsung and others to boost innovation and creativity.
In general, it seems just madness to me that a company like Apple is able to prevent others using similar form factor. I suppose the German judge is not to blame, he's just doing his job (well I didn't really check if he had a choice. I guess it's the ones that make the legislation who would need to be educated.
Edit:
Btw how likely is it that a person buying a phone accidentally gets a Samsung because he/she thinks it's an iPhone? Come on, tell me people aren't that stupid. Oh well, I guess there must be fair amount of those who can't read, shopping for smartphones. But still, there's the picture of an apple...
I wonder if Apple has thought of suing apple farmers for growing products that resemble their logo. Just think about it: the poor customer thinks he's getting an iPhone and when he gets home he finds out he bought a fruit.
FadeFx said:
rschenck did you have a look at the actual community design in question? for me it looks like if this lawsuite is a win for apple, nobody else will be allowed to actually built tablets anymore... so i guess this will just hold back the tab 10.1 for a while on european market, but not stop samsung at all...
edit: and this has solely to do with the case design, nothing about the interface there...
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I am not sure of your point in the first paragraph, but based on what I think you are saying I agree that if Apple wins all it is asking for, that other companies will need to look to radical new designs and Google may need to relax their hardware restrictions to a great degree to allow companies to compete.
The German decision just hinges on the form factor of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, but the GUI and TouchWiz interface play a big part in the overall legal argument.
Here is a good breakdown of the lawsuit and what Apple is claiming...http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/
Still a bit silly on apple, they think they own the form factor of a tablet. Just like Sony decided they own the invention of the TV screen. The 10.1 is nothing like the ipad, for a start it's 16:4 ratio whether other is 4:3, how on earth one can be mistaken a square for a rectangle. I hope the Beatles start suing apple for the name
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okpc said:
I hope the Beatles start suing apple for the name
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Been there done that....Jobs won.
Ok, I hope LG will sued apple for using 'touch' as an interface.
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See my edit above...Motorola joins the fray as well.
Last year I wanted to buy a new smartphone, and as an Apple fanboy I only thought about buying an iPhone. Unfortunately in my country when the iPhone 4 was launched it costed around €650 which was too expensive for my wallet. Then I met the Galaxy S, which was basically kind of an iPhone rip-off but was €250 cheaper. I bought the Galaxy S and today it's still my phone.
So yes, in the end, if the i9000 didn't exist I guess I would have probably ended up buying the iPhone, and Apple could easily argue that they lost at least one customer because the TouchWiz UI and overall design looks pretty much like the iPhone.
I know there's more people in the world like me, I know how many times non tech savvy people asked me if I had bought an iPhone when they saw my Samsung phone for the first time... so in the end we must admit that Apple has a point
The iPhone has a very strong product image among the consumer and Samsung capitalized on that!
Look at it like this, apple sucks! The mac is a pc! Windows stomped apple for years and still does. Jobs never could get it right. Microsoft wins because they have one, not many ideas. The pc was made to be universal, the outside can be anything you or I want it to be. Ios and android are nothing alike. All apple is concerns about is the fact people are tired of being told what they can do with the crapple they bought! That's why I switched. When jobs dies, see what happens! Apple will rape the ios trying to get back to the top! Can I use words instead of icons to open an app or display the weather, not on crapple! Can a maxi pad hook to a server to fix an issue, nope! It's an over sized ipod! Now samsung screwed themselves with the 10.1! Look at it, one cable that looks just like apples, one port, the damn cheap plastic, it wreaks of copy cat! Apple couldn't patent the use of "market" cause then the flea market and grocery market would eat their lunch! Apple is losing the war and they know it! All they are doing is slowing their eventual death! I say we invent a toy and call it the iplug! Of course as soon as apple hears it, they will sue. An apple with the letter I on top! Only problem apple is unaware that it's an adult toy! How pathetic would they look?
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@rschenk
Nice to take a break from flashing and bricking and then puffing and panting.........
Firstly,their TAB went on sale in India and Australia today I believe.
I reckon the biggest market for Samsung is all-Asia inclusive of big brother China where Apple will not be able to stop anything!In fact,Chinese stores started selling 'Hi-phone 5' today,for virtually a song.
Yes,where these firms make a mistake is the 'Me-too' attitude like you mentioned in the case of the GUI viz TOUCHWIZ in the case of Samsung and of course the form factor.
All said and done,it's 'dog eat dog' out there with android itself being under very severe attack from Apple/Microsoft.The biggest gainer eventually would be the customers with some real differentiating possibilities beyond the mere price of these expensive gadgets!
ps---really enjoyed your post!
i want to sue steve jobs because he looks like someone i know
Great thread ! i totally agree with you on this, I do like the Samsung android devices, BUT they do look a lot like the iphone, just like the MIUI rom (which im using lol)
It would be great if Samsung made massive changes to their devices, and something 10 x better than iOS which to be honest.... is nice..
Who knows whats going to happen, maybe its just bullying on a mass scale, Maybe its for the best... But no matter what happens, I will never own an iphone, I will go back to a nokia 6210 if i have too.
I dont rape iphone users, I havent got the balls (pun intended!) But for me, i hate apple, i hate the restrictions, the forcing of using itunes only. and all the other **** they make you do.
I want a phone that i can suit to my needs, and do what i want to it. And thats why i am an android user. Its not Samsung that i like.... its android, so as long as android continues... i couldnt give a **** !!
To be honest,
I love the quality of Samsung products, and this made me kinda fan-boy of them. Because their quality is superb. If there was a better company I would switch but there is not. (Depending on the device of course, canon makes better reflex camera, no doubt, just as example).
You can look at this as a step to the future because companies now might improve their product designs, but we are talking about tablets. What do you think tablets look like? I don't see tablets in a pyramid case... honestly, for me it is just a huge "what the f*ck".
Thumbs down for Apple and the Judge who is a complete retard.
Regards
There's why our xoom has the funny crap way of being used. Microsoft did it! Let's all mass email Microsoft and tell 'em we are switching to Mac and ios! See what happens to apple. I am sick of buying devices and being told I can't do what I want with it! Next they will stop selling printing paper cuz it's white and rectangled! Then there's the saying the alphabet....abcdefghjklmnopqrstuvxyz! Apple didn't invent crap! They stole most of everything they make! I say we start a petition to stop apple's lawsuits. Or we can file a class action against apple for being idiots! And another thing! Why do Mac's work with windows? Oh yeah apple's CPU sucked!!!!!
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Well, it's a company's job to make money to its shareholders. Can we really blame Apple alone for using methods like this? After all it seems that (legally) Apple has a case here so it's worth trying. Imo the question is should there be patent and IP laws that allow patenting a rectangular shape
Intelligent thinking. Very well written too. You deserve a pat on shoulder.
Im talking about the hate between different platforms Os etc just get what you like and thats it! I own galaxy note and an iphone 4s and i think that both phones cover up for each other one's pros and cons. No matter is it about the phone itself or apps or something else! But then again it is just my opinion
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So which Note cons do the iPhone cover? Can't think of any myself.
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Well for instance app availability before android market,maybe not that noticable,but still. And having two different OS's.good enough for me
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I posted this in another thread but its perfectly relevant here as well:
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon occuring on both the Android and Apple side:
1. Someone points out that x feature is missing from one platform, in terms of hardware or software
2. The people on the bandwagon ***** that person out, telling them to switch platforms or just shut up. Often they will say "We don't need X feature, which is why we don't have it." or "Go do this lengthy process to get X feature kinda sorta implemented if you want X feature".
3. Rinse and repeat.
Now this is very general and doesn't always happen but it's something we need to be aware of. As someone studying business and software, it's been beat into my head that there is only one true way to succeed when this situation happens - engineer it into the product and make it BETTER than the competitor.
So, instead of trolling or *****ing people out, I believe the correct procedure is to identify what features and benefits the competitor has and start working on engineering them into our platform in such a way that it is both better than the competitor's and it fits well with our current platform. We can always do better, and taking ideas from a competitor in this way is not in any way stealing - as long as you do not directly copy and change it significantly it's okay (see the paraphrasing versus plagiarizing arguement in education for a good example). And I'm not just talking about Apple here, I'm talking about any competitor.
If we put our energy towards making the platforms and apps better, rather than arguing or otherwise getting getting political/fanboyish, then everyone wins. People on our platform get that new feature, and the other platform has to step up their game so the people on the other platform either get the same feature or some other new feature. This is the basis of constructive competition that drives our economy.
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mainly because whatever the person has then its the best and everything else is rubbish, its the mentality of people
android users rubbish every other os especially ios and vice versa
Liquid Nitrogen, very well said. Agree 100 %.
can't really be ignored that FANBOYISM is rampant in some if not most forums that talk about this and that...
dzhankijs said:
Im talking about the hate between different platforms Os etc just get what you like and thats it! I own galaxy note and an iphone 4s and i think that both phones cover up for each other one's pros and cons. No matter is it about the phone itself or apps or something else! But then again it is just my opinion
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Compared to many forums, this forum is surprisingly civil.
Haters will always be hating though.
dzhankijs said:
Im talking about the hate between different platforms Os etc just get what you like and thats it! I own galaxy note and an iphone 4s and i think that both phones cover up for each other one's pros and cons. No matter is it about the phone itself or apps or something else! But then again it is just my opinion
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Totally agree with u as i use all 3 platforms-Android, iOS n Symbian-and find each one suited for specific purposes.
But one particular platform will appear as the best for one particular user based on user preferences.For me,its Android.But that doesnt conclude that its better than iOS in each n every aspect.
I find it rather silly when people fight ferociously trying to establish that one particular platform is the best...
Exactly I use 3 OSes too. And there are pros and cons. Symbian is good at how each app can be assigned different network, that means email can be given cellular net and data hungry apps can be given wifi. So at a given time, both connection can be active which neither iOS nor Android can do.
One interesting feature of iOS allows syncing of different Exchange Contacts folder which I still couldn't do with Android. iOS is easyphone (vs geekphone) and I always recommend this to my gf, mom, aunt etc.
Android is like - if you can dream a feature then that is already there.
I don't particularly hate the iphone, I owned 2. It's a personal preference thing for me. For me it's the openness and personalization. I do hate apple as a company. They are a bunch of cry babies and if they can't beat someone then they sue them. They have more lawsuits going than anyone right now. Them aholes are even suing Kodak who is freaking bankrupt! They buy patents for the sole purpose of filing a lawsuit.
They are sore losers and would rather sue and buy a patent than come up with their own ideas
From the big ole Note
So I get that all platforms are useful. But WHAT is the deal with the lame press reviews on the NOTE. These kind of fanboy issues grow because of the uneven press given by supposedly people who care about and discuss innovation. Yet they discount the Note and are fine with constantly using a made up marketing term like Retina Display ( I am the Dir of a Cog Sci university program and I know that has nothing to do with the science) even though it means nothing. Samsung truly innovated with the Note, but gets no credit. Google seems to try hard to stick with their "do not evil" mantra (left CHina, backs alt energy, supports open and Mozilla, ...) while Apple now trumps 1980s MS for evilness, yet again they get treated the same there. If everything was more fair, you would see less fanboyism, although there would always be some, it is in our genes.
---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------
So I get that all platforms are useful. But WHAT is the deal with the lame press reviews on the NOTE. These kind of fanboy issues grow because of the uneven press given by supposedly people who care about and discuss innovation. Yet they discount the Note and are fine with constantly using a made up marketing term like Retina Display ( I am the Dir of a Cog Sci university program and I know that has nothing to do with the science) even though it means nothing. Samsung truly innovated with the Note, but gets no credit. Google seems to try hard to stick with their "do not evil" mantra (left CHina, backs alt energy, supports open and Mozilla, ...) while Apple now trumps 1980s MS for evilness, yet again they get treated the same there. If everything was more fair, you would see less fanboyism, although there would always be some, it is in our genes.
Zamboney said:
So which Note cons do the iPhone cover? Can't think of any myself.
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I own both of these as well.
Outlook syncing with iOS makes android look sick, it is sick, because Google want you to give THEM all your personal data, this "open" OS is not as open as some would have you believe, especially when it comes to choosing what to connect to for PIM.
All the 3rd party software for Android syncing [plus Kies and HTC sync] is utter rubbish, including very expensive software like Companionlink/deja.
Android has some pretty substantial high's, especially the Note with it's stylus and large screen, but it sucks balls as much as any other android device I've had for basic PIM without Google
Everything has pro's and con's, even the Note
The real problem with Iphone/Apple products is the cost is more, the features are not any better, both Samsung and Apple are about the same in quality but the App costs are WAY higher on a Apple App store compared to Android store. That and the lack of control (being locked out of something I own) of the phone.
The bottom line I advise ppl I know....... If you want an out of the box phone that you will never change never customize and are willing to buy off the shelf in the box apps....... and that...... will satisfy your every need for the phone........get an I phone......
..... BUT....... if you want to pay less and want to customize and have real control over the item YOU bought.............. get an Android.
I think paying retail plus•90% is unnecessary but then....... like my father used to say........ Never underestimate the power of stupidity!!!....... and those that think paying more for less is ok then stay with Apple......... But I do have to say Apple is fantastic at marketing........ they really Are !!!
My "problem" with iPhone fans is their arguments.
Android is so hard to use, Android is so sluggish, there are more apps in AppStore (but not a single example of ONE app that is missing from Play - i.e not existing on the Android platform) or bragging about the fantastic quality of the iPhone.
Unfortunately, I have not heard any good arguments for the iPhone since 2007. Just those "arguments" that is like a parody.
I agree. I Google app #s the other week and android just passed half a million apps in Google market. Where iphone is barely ahead with just over 600k so the whole app argument is lame and not true!
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SNES vs Genesis, anyone?
There's nothing wrong with most current mobile devices that bigger batteries or a decent bluetooth keyboard case wouldn't fix. The rest is time better spent on tuning our chosen products to whatever esoteric tastes suit us.
drachers said:
SNES vs Genesis, anyone?
There's nothing wrong with most current mobile devices that bigger batteries or a decent bluetooth keyboard case wouldn't fix. The rest is time better spent on tuning our chosen products to whatever esoteric tastes suit us.
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Dream on! Only Android can be tuned at all.
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i find it kind of funny that everyone will go back and forth about the i phone and the android but the windows phones don't even come up in this i guess wether u like i phone or android u have one thing in commin nobody really wants a windows phone
I have a Note and an iPhone 4S. They are both excellent but different.
Buy an iPhone to have iTunes, iCloud and have everything just sync, iTunes as a central point to manage your media, the 4S has a better camera and audio quality, in a manageable screen size.
Buy a Note to have a different hardware form factor. A screen that makes everything sexy. Lots of customisable options. A unique device and well put together.
The classic take. The Apps and Games. On Apps the field between android and iOS is closer. Sometimes it goes to Apple, other times to Android. Think of Apps with widgets and there own shop store. Games goes to Apple. The Note needs more developers to write better made games for the Note.
According to http://mashable.com/2012/05/24/apple-stylus/this article Apple applied for a stylus patent. Is this a sign of next iphone will include a stylus or what? How cool is that?
Article tells apple's stylus will be different then others as follows. Apple’s idea of the stylus, however, is slightly different from the simple styluses you usually get with tablets today. It’s an optical device that can determine (via a pressure sensor) when it’s in contact with a surface and can capture an image using a built-in camera.
Does it sound familiar to you? I think it's Sammy's turn now to sue Apple for copying GNote's Spen
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You can't patent the stylus.
You can however patent your own specific implementation/take on it. Read the actual patent filing, Apple's optical stylus design includes THREE different sensors in the stylus, including a camera. It's designed to detect itself in 3D space and is actually very cool.
Don't be an unthinking fandroid and post rubbish like Samsung should sue Apple over a stylus.
That being said, it's interesting to see Apple now apparently acknowledging the utility of the stylus after publicly scoffing at it when they revealed their iPhone way back when.
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they blew it
Also samsung didn't create the stylus in the note, wacom did.
They wont be putting stylus in iPhone or iPad, they did it just to limit Samsung if they decide to make new and better stylus for newer phones/tablets... Now they won't be able to put gyroscope or camera into it, because its Apple's patent ... Apple is becoming serious patent troll ...
Lol apple.... I'll never buy apple products again, fking hypocrites. I'm soooooo happy with android and my galaxy note!!
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I like Apple products but I just HATE Apple.
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I love my Macbook Pro. But this is annoying....Apple is either: A) Just trying to prevent Samsung from doing something cool with a new version of the Note or B) They are changing their mind and since Steve Jobs isn't around they are making a stylus and copying Samsung because they see "oh, people might actually like that.
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing. They always copy features that Android started first, typically. If Android manufacturers make a "feature" on their phones and the consumers love it, Apple will come around and say "Oh, ya'll actually like that, we just thought it wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but because you like it we'll add it now".
Aggravating. But, Apple is doing something right, they are making billions on people. I'll stick with Google, Android, and manufacturers, namely Samsung.
Its an ingenious little patent I'll grant that. The Note has proved that designers want to use a mobile device for their work and Apple obviously wants a piece of that. This device will allow much more refined stylus experience.... using the top part as a rubber...(Although Wacom already have this) using the pen at an angle to deliver a light shading effect.
That being said.... Apple won't release it for a long time and they'll release an incredibly basic version with minor upgradea up until the iNote 5
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rlaw said:
That being said, it's interesting to see Apple now apparently acknowledging the utility of the stylus after publicly scoffing at it when they revealed their iPhone way back when.
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Yup, like when Jobs was saying what a stupid idea tablets were initially and then Apple releasing the iPad a few years later.
But yes, Stylus's (Stylii?) have been around for decades, and just because Apple have applied for a patent for their version doesn't mean they'll be granted one, although given how pathetic the patent system is, they probably will be.
A decent stylus would make the ipad much more attractive to people wanting to do design work. They need to do something different other than just sticking a faster processor, better screen or LTE modem, in the next iteration, maybe this will be it.
Samsung and Apple already have more than enough lawsuits in progress against each other, they hardly need to add more at this stage.
Also - Apple has probably thought of the market for accessory stylus's, they can sell lots of different coloured ones other than the inevitable white or black one they'll release initially and make even more bank.
knightnz said:
Yup, like when Jobs was saying what a stupid idea tablets were initially and then Apple releasing the iPad a few years later.
But yes, Stylus's (Stylii?) have been around for decades, and just because Apple have applied for a patent for their version doesn't mean they'll be granted one, although given how pathetic the patent system is, they probably will be.
A decent stylus would make the ipad much more attractive to people wanting to do design work. They need to do something different other than just sticking a faster processor, better screen or LTE modem, in the next iteration, maybe this will be it.
Samsung and Apple already have more than enough lawsuits in progress against each other, they hardly need to add more at this stage.
Also - Apple has probably thought of the market for accessory stylus's, they can sell lots of different coloured ones other than the inevitable white or black one they'll release initially and make even more bank.
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This is actually really intelligent on Apple's part. They're recognizing that creative minded people want to use their products for art creation. Releasing their own special, branded stylus with some bells and whistles is a no brainer. Especially since it looks like they're not going to license wacom tech. They'll be making some healthy margins on a beefy markup.
That being said, this seems like it may be another area where Google cedes a niche market to Apple, the other being audio related tasks. Android's audio latency is pretty terrible.
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andreww88 said:
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing.
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Totally agree. Marketing, and timing.
It all started with the iPod, and that ingenious marketing campaign with the black silhouettes and white headphones. Didn't take long before the iPod became the dominant mp3 player in the market - despite there being better alternatives.
onehundredbullets said:
Totally agree. Marketing, and timing.
It all started with the iPod, and that ingenious marketing campaign with the black silhouettes and white headphones. Didn't take long before the iPod became the dominant mp3 player in the market - despite there being better alternatives.
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This is why other companies aren't anywhere near Apple in profit and mindshare right now. This manner of thinking.
You're focusing on the pieces and not the whole. Apple doesn't simply sell a function or a stand-alone piece - they sell an experience to accompany a lifestyle. Which is where other companies wanna buy.
Despite there being technically superior options as far as audio quality, support goes - none of the other solutions were designed with the whole package in mind.
None had the whole shebang together. None had the build quality (those 1st/2nd gen iPods still work to this very day), none had the ease of use and intuitiveness (the click wheel is really where the iPad came into its own), the software solution. Drag 'n' drop is simple but Average Joe doesn't want to mount his storage device and manually send things over, he wants to connect, forget and let the computer do things for him. I hate iTunes with a passion but if you don't mind locking down your collection and being part of the Apple ecosystem (preferably with a Mac cos the iTunes Windows experience is torture), you won't find a more polished complete package.
Apple markets exactly what they sell - an experience that comes along with a lifestyle. And with that comes healthy margins and insane profits. Why d'you think Samsung wants to be more Apple-like in approach, design and marketing (Sony tried to be the Apple of Japan for a while but they screwed the pooch on that one)?
Most people don't want to reconcile themselves around technology, they want the technology to fit them. And Apple is genius at that.
So take your irrational hate of Apple, stick it in a pipe and smoke it. Recognize what they've done well and recognize what competitors can take out of their book. Let's see if you continue to blithely stand by Samsung once they adopt more and more Apple-esque business, design and marketing (hello S3 announcement event) practices.
Why would they do that? Because when you're no longer a commodity, you can command higher pricws, margins and profits.
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andreww88 said:
I love my Macbook Pro. But this is annoying....Apple is either: A) Just trying to prevent Samsung from doing something cool with a new version of the Note or B) They are changing their mind and since Steve Jobs isn't around they are making a stylus and copying Samsung because they see "oh, people might actually like that.
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing. They always copy features that Android started first, typically. If Android manufacturers make a "feature" on their phones and the consumers love it, Apple will come around and say "Oh, ya'll actually like that, we just thought it wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but because you like it we'll add it now".
Aggravating. But, Apple is doing something right, they are making billions on people. I'll stick with Google, Android, and manufacturers, namely Samsung.
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They couldn't have copied android when they released the iPhone first. Remember who was on apples board of directors....
That said, seems like a cool patent & as someone said many creative people use the iPad now as an art device. So this makes sense as another accessory.
monkeyluis said:
They couldn't have copied android when they released the iPhone first. Remember who was on apples board of directors....
That said, seems like a cool patent & as someone said many creative people use the iPad now as an art device. So this makes sense as another accessory.
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Right, an iPhone with no apps or app store. Steve Jobs said the iPhone would never run apps...hmmm
Steve Jobs said that Stylus is dead and we should be grateful to Apple for killing it so if Samsung did not patent it, they're probably just trying to acquire it for licensing fees.
But again they said that 4" screen is just not good and not ergonomic etc. Now they'll probably use 4" screen because people actually want it - and call it magical and revolutionary ( not to mention amazing ).
Yes, sarcasm intended
http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/2051/20120609/what-samsung-galaxy-s3-users-will-miss.htm
"Apple has claimed that Samsung violated its patent for SIRI, the voice controlled assistant as it introduced "S-Voice" in its newest flagship phone Samsung Galaxy S3 and also infringed the automatic detection of certain types of data such as phone numbers, email addresses and hyperlinks as reported by The Inquirer."
Considering voice recognition has been around for over a decade if not closer to two, it's really one more pathetic attempt by Apple to control the market! I really hope they get some judges in there that have an understanding of technology!
Meh voice control is just a gimmick, not to mention you look like a ****ing retard talking to a machine.
So Apple can take it imo their users are just a bunch of left handed facerolling dribble-sheep anyway
Haha there is already a topic like this but yes they really can go f themselves. I dont think we are going to hear much about the case until tomorrow but im just praying that this phone does not get delayed/banned
slight22 said:
http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/2051/20120609/what-samsung-galaxy-s3-users-will-miss.htm
"Apple has claimed that Samsung violated its patent for SIRI, the voice controlled assistant as it introduced "S-Voice" in its newest flagship phone Samsung Galaxy S3 and also infringed the automatic detection of certain types of data such as phone numbers, email addresses and hyperlinks as reported by The Inquirer."
Considering voice recognition has been around for over a decade if not closer to two, it's really one more pathetic attempt by Apple to control the market! I really hope they get some judges in there that have an understanding of technology!
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Have you seen the new iphone design samsung should sue them for copying there round shape housing.. lolzz
I'm not gonna go into how bad the editorial but just gonna go ahead and say that Samsung still have time to show them the source code and prove that they didn't infringe anything. The final verdict isn't out yet
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The funny thing about source code, is that if the language is the same, the syntacs will be the same #main() is the same whether you a programing in windows, android or iOS. The proof is only in the comments not the code.
I could rebuild both Siri and the samsung voice system from ground up and there is a very real chance the code will look VERY similar. And when even the smallest program has hundreds of lines of code trying to prove this code or that is yours or theirs is very VERY hard. I personally think apple is trying to stop something that will decimate their iphone 5 before it's even out in market.
S-Voice is using Google's voice recognition API. Doubt Siri uses that.
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Well Apple is going at the Gnexus as well, but they haven't stopped the selling in the US, so why are they trying to ban the S3?
The same thing for HTC. Apple was/is trying to go after HTC for the second infringement from the OP. They are going after almost every HTC phone, but are only trying to ban the One Series and not the other phones that they are going after.
Apple is just trying to stop all of these new phone's that will put then to shame when they release the new iCrap 5 lol.
Interesting thread topic if anyone has produced the capabilities of a phone to do just that then Apple is more likely to lead the way .
jje
I'd rather Samsung pull S-Voice rather than risk delaying US shipments. They can add it back later as an update. S-Voice, like Siri, is a gimmick and a waste of time. Not worth going to the mat over.
JJEgan said:
Interesting thread topic if anyone has produced the capabilities of a phone to do just that then Apple is more likely to lead the way .
jje
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the people who want "just" a phone these days is so small a number, it don't make sense to even sell them anymore.
As for apple leading the way, doubt it.
tekhna said:
I'd rather Samsung pull S-Voice rather than risk delaying US shipments. They can add it back later as an update. S-Voice, like Siri, is a gimmick and a waste of time. Not worth going to the mat over.
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Right now, shutting apple down in any way is worth going to the mat over. Apple has to be stopped as they think they own everything.
So true, I think apple is really worried, if I was Samsung I would tell them to stop hassiling us or find someone else to make the amazing screens, they advertised the iPad3 with an amazing one of a kind screen but Samsung made the screen, all apple has every been doing is taking an idea, changing it a little and saying that they created it and ever since Steven jobs died they have run outta proper new things to do and iOS users are noticing that, all my iPhone friends want me to put android on there phone cause whenever apple updates something the system gets slower not faster and they hate the control apple has over them.
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slight22 said:
Right now, shutting apple down in any way is worth going to the mat over. Apple has to be stopped as they think they own everything.
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No, right now selling phones is Samsung's job. It's not a crusade, it's a business.
I think Apple is just being a sore-loser because Samsung topped Apple in sales. Svoice is not gonna work for me anyway because I am not a natural-born english-speaking person. lol.
Even if Apple is successful, I will not buy an iPhone anyway, I'll probably end up with another HTC like the EVO LTE. Screw Apple.
This thread is different from the other similar thread and I would like it to be open. I believe the purpose of this thread is to curse Apple. So here are my two cents:
Apples made up of money grubbing entrepreneurs who take gorilla glasses up their asses.
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tekhna said:
No, right now selling phones is Samsung's job. It's not a crusade, it's a business.
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Click to collapse
No business is about making money. Apple has never been about business, Apple has always been a "crusade" against things. First it was IBM, then it was Microsoft, now it's everyone who has a product remotely similar to them. Apple's entire history has been "us VS them". Hell steve jobs even had bar "fights" where he would pit his teams against each other.
No this is a crusade to stop a [email protected] company from selling anymore products that they can try to control how you run your day to day online activities.
I don't know, can anyone else see the irony of Apple today from their "1984" super bowl commercial??
ceo.mtcl said:
This thread is different from the other similar thread and I would like it to be open. I believe the purpose of this thread is to curse Apple. So here are my two cents:
Apples made up of money grubbing entrepreneurs who take gorilla glasses up their
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Lets try and not get the thread closed for profanity
It would be nice if Samsung got so much money behind them that they could stop making parts for Apple, think 30 or 40% of the iphone 4 is made by Samsung.
There would be other companies out there...lg? who would step up but the change over would cripple Apple.
Always makes me laugh when Apple boys dis Samsung, if were not for them their phone would not even turn on.
slight22 said:
No business is about making money. Apple has never been about business, Apple has always been a "crusade" against things. First it was IBM, then it was Microsoft, now it's everyone who has a product remotely similar to them. Apple's entire history has been "us VS them". Hell steve jobs even had bar "fights" where he would pit his teams against each other.
No this is a crusade to stop a [email protected] company from selling anymore products that they can try to control how you run your day to day online activities.
I don't know, can anyone else see the irony of Apple today from their "1984" super bowl commercial??
Lets try and not get the thread closed for profanity
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Click to collapse
The us vs them mentality is about making money. Apple will go after anyone that produces a product that could take sales away. Apple is all about business and their business is to make money at all costs.
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apple is the new anti technology, anti innovation, anti consumer company!!!
There OS is stale and they know it...this includes there computer OS, windows 8 rocks apples mountain lion. There going to be the old n out fashion, and believe it or not Microsoft and android will be new fashion.
Just a matter of time Apple will steal the live tiles from MSFT..find out in about an hour.
I saw this article on CNN, I tought it might interest some people here.
Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/18/tech/gaming-gadgets/samsung-apple-innovation/
(CNN) -- There's no arguing that Apple set the standard for modern mobile devices with the iPhone and the iPad. It didn't take long after those two products launched for competitors to rush out their own copycat devices.
Even then, it took another few years before Android was good enough to go toe to toe with iOS, Apple's mobile operating system.
But it's no longer about being just as good as Apple. You have to be better. Competitors have built upon the foundation Apple laid in mobile and are now leapfrogging it with bunch of useful features you can't find on iPhones and iPads.
The evidence is everywhere, but it's most apparent in products made by Apple's biggest mobile rival, Samsung.
By now, Samsung's Galaxy devices have become synonymous with Android, to the point that the manufacturer has more brand recognition than any other phone or tablet running Google's operating system. A lot of that has to do with Samsung's massive marketing budget, but you can't ignore the fact that the company has innovated a lot by creating popular new product categories that Apple is wary to try.
The best example of this is the Galaxy Note, a smartphone-tablet hybrid with a giant screen. When that device first hit the United States about a year ago, critics (including me) slammed the device for being too large. It couldn't fit comfortably in your pocket. It was really thick. And it came with a stylus, that relic of the Palm Pilot era, making the Note feel like a step backward.
None of that mattered. Samsung sold at least 10 million Galaxy Notes. The company came out with an updated version with an even larger screen called the Galaxy Note II a few months later and sold another 5 million (at last count), a very big achievement for a single Android device.
But more importantly, Samsung created a new category of smartphone that people didn't even know they wanted, much like Apple did when it released the first iPhone.
Samsung isn't afraid to tout its cool factor either. Since the first commercial debuted in late 2011, you've probably seen those "Next Big Thing" ads that make fun of starry-eyed Apple fans waiting in line for the next iPhone. Whether it's boasting about the bigger screens or sharing content by tapping phones together, Samsung seems content to blast Apple for its stuffiness while showing in a practical context what its devices can do.
On the software side of things, Samsung is taking advantage of its mobile devices' processing power to layer premium features on top of Android, such as the ability to run two apps at once in a split screen or separate window. Samsung's best tablet, the Galaxy Note 10.1, can do all that plus take advantage of a stylus so you can draw and take notes on the screen.
There is a downside to the split-screen thing, however. Developers have to tweak their apps to work in split-screen mode on the Note 10.1. There are only about 20 apps right now that can do it.
But what's most important is how nimble Samsung has become at improving its mobile devices through software updates. The Note 10.1 launched last fall, but it received a software update with a new version of Android and a slew of other features like the voice assistant Google Now, which is a lot more impressive than Apple's original Siri.
Samsung's director of product planning, Shoneel Kolhatkar, said the company takes user and reviewer feedback into account when preparing to deliver new software updates. Instead of making users wait a year for new features, Kolhatkar said Samsung can use that feedback to deliver "incremental innovation that keeps the product alive."
"We want to keep the product relevant to consumers," Kolhatkar said. "It's about how to fit our devices into people's lives versus changing their behavior."
Samsung isn't alone, of course. Microsoft's new Windows 8 operating system is built for touchscreen devices like tablets, too, and it offers a lot of advantages over iOS. All Windows 8 apps can run in a split screen so you can run two at once, plus the main menu is capable of displaying real-time updates for stuff like news and weather. Microsoft even has its own line of Surface tablets that blur the line between PC and laptop thanks to a clever snap-on keyboard cover.
Based on all this evidence, Apple feels behind. Take a look at its newest fourth-generation iPad. It has a killer processor and other great hardware features, but the operating system doesn't take advantage of any of that. The home screen is still just a grid of static icons that launch apps.
Apple also isn't nearly as versatile at adding new software features to its devices. Apple usually makes users wait a year or more for a new version of iOS, and even then some older devices can't access all the latest and greatest features.
Apple CEO Tim Cook likes to say tablets -- not laptops -- are the future of computing, yet it feels like Apple's software goes out of its way to limit what you can do on the machine.
Meanwhile there are others, especially Samsung, that appear to be innovating at a pace faster than Apple can.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steve Kovach.
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Tim Cook is wrong, the future of computing is... SMARTPHONES!
Good Find. Apple has been stuck on its original mentality and although it innovated a huge field, they have definitely stagnated
Re: How Samsung is out-innovating Apple
Apple? Sounds familiar is that the company that made that funny square phone with non movable icons back in 1999 ??
Re: How Samsung is out-innovating Apple
Yeah, the company that makes phones for senior citizens.
Far from being an Apple fan, I think we should be grateful to them. The first iphone really woke up the smartphone industry by giving them a kick in the butt. Without the first iphone maybe we wouldn't have our awesome SGS3.
Kremata said:
Far from being an Apple fan, I think we should be grateful to them. The first iphone really woke up the smartphone industry by giving them a kick in the butt. Without the first iphone maybe we wouldn't have our awesome SGS3.
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Well put. They do innovate. But then Samsung takes over and kills them at their own game. Some prime examples are TV's, home appliances and memory chips.
jinosong said:
Well put. They do innovate. But then Samsung takes over and kills them at their own game. Some prime examples are TV's, home appliances and memory chips.
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Memory chips? Apple never made memory chips. Actually (funny fact) even today they still use Samsung memory chips. Latest news was they were looking for another supplier. And I never seen an Apple TV or DVD player.
Kremata said:
Memory chips? Apple never made memory chips. Actually (funny fact) even today they still use Samsung memory chips. Latest news was they were looking for another supplier. And I never seen an Apple TV or DVD player.
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I was merely mentioning that Samsung takes hold of other companies' innovations and perfect them to become the industry leader in their respective markets.
jinosong said:
I was merely mentioning that Samsung takes hold of other companies' innovations and perfect them to become the industry leader in their respective markets.
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Interesting that a while ago most people thought that about Apple.
Apple is stagnant, hopefully Samsung will not. A great catalyst of innovation is the open nature of Android and the heavy competition.
drakester09 said:
Interesting that a while ago most people thought that about Apple.
Apple is stagnant, hopefully Samsung will not. A great catalyst of innovation is the open nature of Android and the heavy competition.
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Personally I'm a fan of Android but not necessarily Samsung. Now I'm with Samsung because they have the most powerful phone but if later on HTC or other come up with a better one I will go with them. Frankly I hate Samsung's interface. I find the green toggles and the grey sms box so ugly. But I love S-Voice. I hope they will improve their UI in the future. In the mean time I will keep flashing ROM to my liking.