Database Users

Dual Core 1GHz Tegra2 Viewsonic G-Tablet

The Viewsonic 10 inch "G-Tablet" discussed in the link below ($349 from Sears) has the Nividia dual core 1ghz Tegra 2 processor. It sounds like it has pretty decent hardware but lacking in software due to not being an official Google product and having a poor performing UI.
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/tablet/viewsonics-tegra-2-tablet-on-sale-now-at-sears-for-379/
Viewsonic G-Tablet specs include:
NVIDIA Tegra 2 Dual ARM cortex (1Ghz)
Capacitive Multi-Touch/Multi Tasking panel
10.1” 1024 X 600 TFI LCD Screen
512 MB RAM, Mass Memory 16 GB
Mini USB x 1; Full size USB x 1
1.3MP Front –Facing Webcam
Earphone x 1
Micro SD card slot
2 x 1 W speaker
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n
G sensor/Light sensor
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
3500mAh/7.4V Li-polymer Battery Life 8-10 Hours
Slim design (267 x 173 x 14.3mm) Wt. 820 Grams
Buttons: Home/Back/Menu/Volume/Power
OS / Android 2.2
Headphone Jack
Built in Microphone
"Original information out of Viewsonic said this device would cost over $500, but Sears is selling a WiFi-only version that lacks the sim-card slot of the more expensive model. Some overseas models were also reported to include 1 GB of RAM, but the Sears unit is shipping with 512 MB RAM."
"The good news is that this tablet comes with Android 2.2, but that might be there the fun ends. This tablet was not certified by Google so it lacks all the Google Mobile Services including the official Android Market. Thankfully you can still sideload apps and alternative markets like SlideME."
You can buy the "G-tablet" here: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00382001000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1 Use the zoom feature on the picture to get a really good close up of the device buttons and LEDs etc. I like the clean and simple look. Three buttons is nice too and the Wifi only will work perfectly with a tethering Nexus One (see it's not OT). At $380 it is ~$120 cheaper than the equivalent iPad.
I think this would be a good candidate for dev support to take advantage of the hardware to root and optimize for 10" display. If developers are interested in rocking this device I am definitely picking one up.
Do you think developers would work with this device?

At the pricepoint they are selling it for, this device would be appealing if we have developer support.

Let's face it, developer support will be the deciding factor for a lot of people, almost (but not completely) regardless of the hardware...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Let's also face it; it has nothing to do with the Nexus. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=824804

I might pick one up the next time I'm in there browsing the lawn mowers

Archos 101 for 299 is more appealing no ?

Holy Crap - The AT&T LTE 8.9 is Snapdragon

It was announced today for sale starting November 20th. You also get a free Skyrocket LTE phone with it. It's only 16GB but it's great that it's got a different processor than the Teg 2. It actually has the same chip as the HTC Jetstream which is also LTE.
Here's the details...
Samsung Galaxy Tab™ 8.9
Exclusive to AT&T customers, the 4G LTE Samsung Galaxy Tab™ 8.9 is a slim, lightweight tablet, running Android™ 3.2 and packed with optimized services from Google, AT&T and Samsung. The new tablet features a vivid 8.9-inch 1280x800 pixel high-resolution screen, powerful processor 1.5 GHz dual-core processor for fast multi-tasking, and tabbed browsing with support for HTML 5 and Adobe® Flash® Player.
•4G LTE backed by 4G HSPA+
•Android 3.2 (Honeycomb)
•15.9 ounces light, 8.6mm thin
•Brilliant 8.9" HD widescreen
•3.2 megapixel rear facing camera with LED flash, 2 megapixel front facing camera
•Tabbed browsing, Adobe Flash and HTML support
•Snapdragon 1.5 GHz dual core processor
•16 GB internal memory and expandable up to 32 GB via accessory option
•1 GB RAM
•TouchWiz® UX
•Dimensions: 230.9 x 157.8 x 8.6 mm
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-4g-lte-tablet-available-for-att-customers-133825758.html

Neither Tegra 2 or OMAP processors can support LTE (Non verizon for the OMAP) so it makes sense they are using a snapdragon but i read it and was like "Whaaa =/"

I had a Jetstream for a short time and the UI and transitions were fast and smooth - even with Sense. However, as is typical, HTC hosed the video and audio codecs and implementation. It should be really quick with Samsung's better tuned s/w.

anyone know if it's possible to make phone calls with this tablet ?
i read in gsm arena that the LTE model has support for GSM voice and SMS.
does it really works ? is there a dialer ?

I would highly doubt that the AT&T branded Galaxy Tab would support regular GSM phone calls. I have explained this before in different threads, but long story short, allowing a device that "does it all" on their network would be bad for business, and as such, they would never support that. They would rather you buy a tablet -AND- a smartphone, and pay data for both. Two devices, two line subscriptions, and the evil corporation laughing maniacally as they run to the bank with the extra money they gouged from you.
That's why the GSM calling abilities of the original Tab were locked down and disabled.

Just picked one up... this snapdragon @ 1.5 feels much faster than my 10 @ 1.4... now to figure out root...

^^^ tks! keep us posted re: root

Crapdragon is a disappointment compared to Exynos, but it might be an improvement from the Tegra 2. I didn't realize how crappy the T2 was until I used an Exynos device.

My feelings exactly. The snapdragon feels faster day to day than my tegra10 does. The lack of root is a bummer however.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

After Careful Analysis of Trends and Rumors, here is what I think of the S3 / Note 2!

Well, after cross-referencing other sources, it is very well likely for the below specifications to appear on new models this year. Applicable to S3 and Note 2. - Cheers!
Next Month Samsung will be announcing who knows, how many new devices. One of the expected models is the Galaxy S3 and possibly, Note 2.
I can say the S3 will have the following after doing a careful analysis of trends and rumors,
4.5" OR 4.65" SAMOLED HD Pentile or RGB/Plus Display with 3D (also known as Super AMOLED III) with 1280x720 Resolution, Lotus Glass
1.5 GHz Quad Core Processor 32nm (Exynos 4412 with Mali T604)
2gb LPDDR2, DDR2 or DDR3 Ram (Dual Channel)
16 or 12 Megapixel Lens Rear Camera (Samsung Technology)
3.2 Megapixel Front Camera with Face Detection
16gb or 32gb Built in Memory Expandable up to 64GB
Bluetooth 4.0
Built In NFC
Ice Cream Sandwich
2000mAh Battery
HzO Technology--water-proof technology
ETA--Late Spring, 2012
Who wants to bet?!
I can say the Note 2 will have the following after doing a careful analysis of trends and rumors,
5.3" SAMOLED HD Pentile Display with 3D (also known as Super AMOLED III) with 1280x800 Resolution, Lotus Glass
1.8 GHz Quad Core Processor 32nm (Exynos 4412 with Mali T604) or 2.0GHz Dual Core Processor 32nm (Exynos 5250 with Mali T604)
2gb LPDDR2, DDR2 or DDR3 Ram
16 or 12 Megapixel Lens Rear Camera (Samsung Technology)
3.2 Megapixel Front Camera with Face Detection
16gb or 32gb Built in Memory Expandable up to 64GB
Bluetooth 4.0 (or possibly 5.0)
USB 3.0
Built In NFC
Ice Cream Sandwich
2750mAh Battery
HzO Technology--water-proof technology
ETA: mid-Summer, 2012
Who wants to bet?!
A 4.5" inch screen is more probable. I agree.
Well, a possible release date of Jelly Bean has yet to be confirmed. And if released in August this year, this certainly will not be in the Note 2. Jelly Bean will first arrive in Nexus 4 and it will take developers a few weeks to overlay their UI's on newer models
Touchwiz 5.0 is obvious for new devices coming out with ICS, so no need to include that in the specifications. Existing S2 and and Note will have ICS soon, but with the existing Touchwiz 4.0 interface.
16MP looks promising since sensors were already introduced late last year, Oct. 2011
Battery seems to be appropriate for the S2, since the battery compartment size will be able accommodate larger batteries due to the .2" inch increase in screen size.
3D may or may not appear. What remains suspicious is how Samsung decided to refer their new AMOLED displays as SAMOLED 3. HEY, YOU NEVER KNOW!
HzO is a possibility, but seeing that Samsung has to shell extra money out of their pockets puts this feature into question.
2GB will be able to accommodate more processes to run in the background, and since the CPU will be bumped, 2GB doesn't look like too much.
The Exynos 5250 (A15) that you are referring to may be featured in Phablets and or Tablets. This we will have to wait and see.
I think a lot of these updates are obvious, so as the clock ticks, we sit down and think.

I would lower the CPU frequency to 1.8 Ghz, the camera to 12 megapixels and the battery to 2000 mAh (you wrote mV, that's not the correct unit for refering to charge).

SAlmighty said:
Who wants to bet?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Money or peanuts /
jje

I don't see why they would use a weaker cpu in the Galaxy Note 2.
2Ghz A15 dual-core >>1.5 Ghz A9 quad-core

The Mali T604 still won't beat the SGX543/4MP2, so for all your fan boys who bums benchmark don't get too over excited. Unless its a Mali T604MP2.

It's too early for the Galaxy Note 2

I'll take that bet because this is totally wrong.
SIII will not ship with 5250 because it won't be ready in time. It will use the quad-core 4412 since that's the most powerful SoC that will be available for mass production for SIII timetable. Heck, there are no devices even running 4412 yet it's so new, 5250 is even newer and won't be used in devices until later in the year, most likely next top end tablet.
It will not have 2GB of ram, too big of a jump, but 1.5GB instead max.
Camera 12MP at most.
Note II ..come on, that's a year away.

Note 2 won't be announced in WMC if we go by the timing of last year's announcements.
Definitely Note 2 won't be using 1280*800 Super AMOLED. It would either be a RGB (+ moniker) at this resolution or something like PenTile at 1600*1000 resolution.
Don't think 2Ghz for GS3. Samsung will "surely" reduce the clock speed to save battery. This was the same strategy they used for GN where they under-clocked OMAP 4460 to 1.2GHz instead of stock 1.5Ghz. This will require a lower operating voltage. Dropping core voltage yields a more than a linear decrease in power consumption. So, if they using 5250, my guess is like 1.5Ghz. A lot of discussion and recent press from Samsung about battery-life. But I doubt they can do something extraordinary because of the large AMOLED screen. Unfortunately all websites are smitten with white. They had to reduce the brightness drastically in
AMOLED's to save battery. In GN, it barely crosses 200 Nits.
I am expecting HD Super AMOLED "Plus" in GS3.
About camera, you may want to check this: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/newsView.do?news_id=1262
Too early to speculate about Note. But definitely it would be clocked higher than GS3 and will have bigger battery - like 3000 mAh and will have better resolution.

"About camera, you may want to check this: http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...o?news_id=1262 "
pretty certain it get a 16mp camera ,60 fps HD recording ....

I would say that a 720 samoled+ (rgb) screen is likely, not sure if the a15s are even samplerling yet so I wouldn't expect one, higher clocked exynos or maybe the quad (but that would be murder on the battery IMO).
Rumor is rumor, zzz
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

I remember a lot of threads in the HD2 general section, saying "The HD3 will have this" and "The HD3 will have that".
Has the SGS3 actually been officially confirmed?

rd_nest said:
Note 2 won't be announced in WMC if we go by the timing of last year's announcements.
Definitely Note 2 won't be using 1280*800 Super AMOLED. It would either be a RGB (+ moniker) at this resolution or something like PenTile at 1600*1000 resolution.
Don't think 2Ghz for GS3. Samsung will "surely" reduce the clock speed to save battery. This was the same strategy they used for GN where they under-clocked OMAP 4460 to 1.2GHz instead of stock 1.5Ghz. This will require a lower operating voltage. Dropping core voltage yields a more than a linear decrease in power consumption. So, if they using 5250, my guess is like 1.5Ghz. A lot of discussion and recent press from Samsung about battery-life. But I doubt they can do something extraordinary because of the large AMOLED screen. Unfortunately all websites are smitten with white. They had to reduce the brightness drastically in
AMOLED's to save battery. In GN, it barely crosses 200 Nits.
I am expecting HD Super AMOLED "Plus" in GS3.
About camera, you may want to check this: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/newsView.do?news_id=1262
Too early to speculate about Note. But definitely it would be clocked higher than GS3 and will have bigger battery - like 3000 mAh and will have better resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offence but your wrong for the clockspeed anyways. The reason why they downclocked it, yes was to save battery BUT was manufactured on 45nm whereas these are 32nm WHICH IS a huge difference between power comsumption and heat different. So 1.5Ghz seems fine to me since it'll either provide equal power or less. Nanometer plays quite a huge role in power consumption

My contract ends tomorrow, currently I have sgs2 do you think it is worth upgrading now to maybe Galaxy Note or wait for the new devices?

brodzik said:
My contract ends tomorrow, currently I have sgs2 do you think it is worth upgrading now to maybe Galaxy Note or wait for the new devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait. Your phone is good enough to last you for another year at least. Compare to other phones on the market and what is being planned to be released of what we know off you have still one of the best if not the best android phone in the market..So enjoy your phone slap ICS when that comes out and wait for the S3 when it gets released

Archer said:
I remember a lot of threads in the HD2 general section, saying "The HD3 will have this" and "The HD3 will have that".
Has the SGS3 actually been officially confirmed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mhm. And the successor was the HD7, in a way Lawl.
$1 gets you a reply

cokeman2 said:
"About camera, you may want to check this: http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...o?news_id=1262 "
pretty certain it get a 16mp camera ,60 fps HD recording ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope they wont go any higher with the mp count as it actually decreases picture quality in terms of noise and lowlight. Its a phone and 8mp is more than enough. Hell my dsrl has 12mp wich is plenty and that on a sensor that is like 20 times bigger than the one in the gs2 and 4s.. More is not always better....
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

JJEgan said:
Money or peanuts /
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Peanut Brittle..
Sent from TAPAKING using Tapatalk

Lol 3D? Not a chance in hell... If Sammy does that ( which I'm nearly 100% sure they will not ) after HTC and LG failed miserably with Evo3D and Optimus3D, respectively, then I will consider them idiots....

@OP: After less than careful analysis of your post I can confidently say that you are wrong.

Whoops, Physics 101, didn't proofread, thanks.
Filiprino said:
I would lower the CPU frequency to 1.8 Ghz, the camera to 12 megapixels and the battery to 2000 mAh (you wrote mV, that's not the correct unit for refering to charge).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Tab 7.7 vs iPad Mini

So let's match up the latest contender against the current king of "pocketables" (our beloved Tab 7.7) in terms of hardware:
Specs of the main rivals (as of Nov 2012):
Code:
Galaxy Tab 7.7 iPad Mini Nexus 7 Kindle Fire HD
Dimensions 196.7 x 133 x 7.9 mm 200 x 134.7 x 7.2 mm 198.5 x 120 x 10.5 mm 193 x 137 x 10.3 mm
Weight 340 g 308 g 340 g 395 g
Resolution 1280 x 800 1024 x 768 1280 x 800 1280 x 800
Screen 7.7" 196 ppi 7.9" 162 ppi 7.0" 216 ppi 7.0" 216 ppi
Cams 3.15 & 2 MP 5 & 1 MP 1.2 MP 1.3 MP
Micro-SD yes no no no
CPU Dual-core 1.4 GHz A9 Dual-core 1 Ghz A9 Quad-core 1.3 GHz A9 Dual-core 1.2 GHz A9
GPU Mali-400MP PowerVR SGX MP4+ GeForce PowerVR SGX540
RAM 1 GB 512 MB 1 GB 512 MB
GPS yes no yes no
Misc voice call support NFC
Verdict:
Dimensions: draw
Weight: iPad Mini
Resolution: Tab 7.7
Screen: Tab 7.7
Cams: draw
Micro-SD: Tab 7.7
CPU: Tab 7.7
GPU: Tab 7.7
RAM: Tab 7.7
GPS: Tab 7.7
Looking at the hardware it looks like a clear win for the Tab 7.7.
For those looking for LTE data: supported by both Verizon's Tab 7.7 and iPad Mini LTE version
So, to summarize the iPad Mini:
The Good: light weight, good back cam
The Bad: front cam, no expandable memory, no USB peripheral connectivity, no GPS
The Ugly: 162ppi (in 2012) is going to be pushing it when reading full size PDFs, non-uniform bezel not really great design choice
What do you guys think?

The only good thing here, is that there will be a lot of accessories for the ipad mini and there is a slight chance that some of these might fit the 7.7 .
I do feel that samsung might come out with another amoled tab in january at CES but I could be wrong.

ascariss said:
The only good thing here, is that there will be a lot of accessories for the ipad mini and there is a slight chance that some of these might fit the 7.7 .
I do feel that samsung might come out with another amoled tab in january at CES but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope so too. A 7.7 successor with stylus, 1920x1080 (286 ppi) screen and wireless charging would be a game changer.
Accessories wise I'm pretty happy handling the device without any bulky covers; and the screen protectors won't be compatible, not sure what the Mini could contribute..

I'll pass on the Mini, if only to have it just play with. One dealbreaker too many -- no microsd slot. End of story.

I might jump ship for a Asus padphone 2

Tab 7.7 definitely wins here. The iPad mini isn't worth it.

Tab 7.7 has the native Voice Call !!!!!
Absolutely the must-have feature.

7.7 original innovation. Ipad Mini same as ipad 2 but smaller no innovation. And waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to expensive for it to compete with anything else. Sure the 7.7 was over $600 US but I would gladly pay that anytime over a shrunken down version of an old product
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium

While the hardware of the 7.7 is great and the fact that Samsung got it right on the size (a fraction of an inch really does matter in the 7inch tablet market) -- Apple's advantage is it's ecosystem. It is a fact that their tablets will be upgraded to iOS7 and iOS8. Until Android and/or Samsung get down to a good software support model we won't win. Give me a 7.7 Nexus that has an annual software update and isn't discontinued and I think I'll be happy.

Agreed the Gtab 7.7 is superior, and it was a device announced in 2011!

FrostByte1906 said:
While the hardware of the 7.7 is great and the fact that Samsung got it right on the size (a fraction of an inch really does matter in the 7inch tablet market) -- Apple's advantage is it's ecosystem. It is a fact that their tablets will be upgraded to iOS7 and iOS8. Until Android and/or Samsung get down to a good software support model we won't win. Give me a 7.7 Nexus that has an annual software update and isn't discontinued and I think I'll be happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as some people from Team Hacksung don't jump ship, we'll have newer OSs. The 7.7 is mostly the same as a Galaxy SII, and almost the same as a Note. Both devices are being worked on by people from the Team, and most of the Exynos 4212's stupidities are known and somewhat understood. Although our device isn't as well supported as the Note, we will get whatever CM version the Note gets; right now locerra is working to avoid the rough edges, but if he stops doing so someone from the community will step up. We won't get a TouchWiz Android 4.2+, but we will get it (and future versions) on AOSP.

A 1024x768 4:3 screen vs 1280x800 SAMOLED+? It's not even fair.

Apparently the Mini doesn't include a GPS either, whereas the Tab7.7 comes out of the box with GPS enabled Google Maps. Then add (compass enabled) Streetview and Google Earth (and compare it to Apple maps w/o GPS) and it's not even a contest in this category.
Amended in original post.

nephridium said:
I hope so too. A 7.7 successor with stylus, 1920x1080 (286 ppi) screen and wireless charging would be a game changer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 to that. My wish

I would say the nexus 7 is better based on the specs I do not like apple products at all but will probably buy the iPad mini when available to test it out and see how good the screen is compared to the nexus
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda app-developers app

I just bought a gtab 7.7 and am well within my 14 day return period. Here are the reasons I am not going to get the ipad mini:
- GPS. How can apple not include this? Unbelievable.
- screen quality. While I have not seen the ipad mini, I love the display on the gtab 7.7. It is the best I've seen on any device.
- build quality. Better than any android device and at least as good as the ipad.
- expandable memory.
- haptic feedback. I love to use this while typing. It amazes me that apple, amazon and Asus do not include this on their devices and nobody complains.
The primary advantages for apple in my eyes include :
- great app eco system and developer support.
- warranty and service are Lexus like... at least in my experience.
So I'm keeping my gtab 7.7. This replaces my old school gtab 7 that I've had for two years.
Sent from my SCH-I815 using xda premium

besides the app ecosystem, the tab 7.7 wins on everything to me.
to get an equivalent cellular model, with 64gb space (to compensate for no microsd slot) you'd be paying 600 bucks for the mini.
the tab 7.7 is a year old as well and it still kicks the llama's ass. samsung nailed it, was ahead of the game, but somehow didn't know how to market the best tab in this size range.
i really wish that android apps would catch up on the tablet-optimized space. the apps taht are tablet optimized are a much better experience than blown up phone app interfaces.
i personally wish google would put some android specifications that all manufacturers have to follow. enough so it is easier to develop for without affecting the different choices we can get.

idiotekniQues said:
besides the app ecosystem, the tab 7.7 wins on everything to me.
to get an equivalent cellular model, with 64gb space (to compensate for no microsd slot) you'd be paying 600 bucks for the mini.
the tab 7.7 is a year old as well and it still kicks the llama's ass. samsung nailed it, was ahead of the game, but somehow didn't know how to market the best tab in this size range.
i really wish that android apps would catch up on the tablet-optimized space. the apps taht are tablet optimized are a much better experience than blown up phone app interfaces.
i personally wish google would put some android specifications that all manufacturers have to follow. enough so it is easier to develop for without affecting the different choices we can get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why he have Paranoid Android - to change per app DPI.

I just installed Paranoid Android v2.5. It's a very good ROM. You can change the looks from tablet mode to phone mode, or hybrid mode - phanblet mode.

freaksamael said:
That's why he have Paranoid Android - to change per app DPI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
totally agree
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium

[Q] buying s4?

Hello,
i want a amoled screen for my next phone, with complete options, infrared, nfc, wirless charging (it optional but exist), 2 Gb og ram, removable battery, sd card slot, and for its accesoiry.. etc
i think that s4 answer to my needs.
But, i hesitate because of stocks updates, its 2013 models, and become old!
My question is if s4 is still worth this position on the 2015, and if there is equivalent new phone (full option) to him, for 300 euro budget
Thank for your answers and sorry for english

OTA_ said:
Hello,
i want a amoled screen for my next phone, with complete options, infrared, nfc, wirless charging (it optional but exist), 2 Gb og ram, removable battery, sd card slot, and for its accesoiry.. etc
i think that s4 answer to my needs.
But, i hesitate because of stocks updates, its 2013 models, and become old!
My question is if s4 is still worth this position on the 2015, and if there is equivalent new phone (full option) to him, for 300 euro budget
Thank for your answers and sorry for english
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GT-I9515 (GALAXY S4 VE) in my opinion :highfive:.

Well, the S4 GT-I9506 seems to have hardware that can somewhat match the latest models
S4 GT-I9506 specs:
Chipset: Qualcomm MSM8974 Snapdragon 800
CPU : Quad-core 2.3 GHz Krait 400
GPU : Adreno 330
Internal 16/32 GB, 2 GB RAM
And in comparison, the S5 specs:
Chipset Qualcomm MSM8974AC Snapdragon 801
CPU Quad-core 2.5 GHz Krait 400
GPU Adreno 330
Internal 16/32 GB, 2 GB RAM
As you can see, there is not a huge difference. The newer chipset model and 200Hz more processing power. But I don't think those 200Hz will make any big impact on performance. If it's going to be any performance differences then it's because of the newer chipset and maybe ram speeds.
Though the normal S4 GT-I9505 is still a good competitor today. Many people still use it as you can probably see by the activity on this forum.
It can still keep up with today's requirements. And it will for another 1-2 years at least.
If developers made apps only for the high-end smartphones then only those who can afford those kind of phones can use the app. And that's just not profitable for them, right?