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OK guys... I think it's time to have a coming-to-Jesus (or buddha, or Mohamed, or Spaghettimonster) moment. Over many months I have downloaded lots of Roms, followed progress here and there... and quite frankly my opinion is THIS PLACE HERE NEEDS TO GROW UP.
THE PROBLEM
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I mean it's great that everyone and their grandmother can express their creativity by bringing out Roms, by using test releases, adding a few themes and call them stable, by taking dogs and call them fast.
FACT is, most ROMs SUCK, most are unstable don't make it past a few weeks, they start out fast but come to a screeching halt. Or a week in you notice that wifi doenst work, or alarm, or gmail or voice... or gmail works, but you can't send emails... and you'd don't find out until one week later when you really need that feature (at least those of us here who work)
At the end of the day the Roms here are for the most part BS... mine is longer than yours, I am faster then you, I am a pony or not, or stupidfast or or just superfast or superD or fastest or fasttest ...WHATEEVER.. I'd bet that 90% of regular users stop by once, flash a few roms then just get ultimately annoyed by the prepubescent J.O. session.....without any goal or direction or common goal...
THE SOLUTION
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So this place needs to grow up. HOW, well for a start adopt open source dev. principles. Instead of every 12 year old kid with a keyboard releasing their own orgasmicallyfast and ultimaterock stable rom, how about having a few development TREES.
Have different trees, that focus on FAST, STABLE, FUNCTIONAL. Or some mix that is clearly defined in a mission statement. Then have people commit improvements, changes to those trees and have official releases that would actually bring each tree further and add improvements. Have the most respected devs. manage those trees while all the newby devs contribute. Make contributions, being the creator of X or Y be the thing to be known for, not the "being creative in coming up with some dumb rom name".
Why, well it works in the opensource community, and if you look at that model, you'd actually see commercial companies entering the picture, sponsoring developments, donating code, paying salaries of developers, and with the option that some of the best devs. here actually can make a living of the work that is done here. Right now there's so much bs going on, a few minor things are real improvements, a lot is just cosmetic, same thing over with a new label or new mix
With the current situation devs spend hours and hours without the remotest chance that this work is taken seriously by the industry. Do you think they go and flash 100 rom's and test'em all to figure out what works.
Also what is better, to have 1000 Roms out there each used by 1000 people, or 10 used by millions.. in fact it would be a lot more. You'd find more mainstream users using the Rom's and you'd find the industry taking a look and things would move forward, there's evolution.
FINAL WORDS
Sorry to interrupt that happy kumbaya session here, and I am sure I'll get lots of hate/fu comments.. which quite frankly I don't care about - I'll just ignore you.
This is an idea, I want some of the leaders here to think about. Taking this mess and unite devs to actually contribute to some meaningful path forward, that is documented, has a standard, and people and eventually the hardware industry or telecoms or 2nd users (often in developing countries) can rely on, rather than being the side-freak show it is now, mostly created by all the 3rd rate devs that just remix while the people that really make progress are being flooded by the all the garbage out there...
Do whatever you wanna do with this comment... if this ends up being some angry comments flame war thread.. I'll just not gonna come back to it...and if no one sees my point.. then well, feel free to keep dwelling your nice little ecosystem here... and just dream about what this could be... for now I'll move on to my faster android device.. so long everyone.. and would be great if at least a fraction here would agree...
UPDATE:
How about having 2 sections. One for official ROMS - Have the community pick a handfull of ROMs. Each one needs to fulfill a basic set of requirements in regards to bug management/reporting, documentation (including credits), supervision (someone in charge approving code/additions). Also each ROM should have a mission statement as what the goal is of the ROM: f.e. stable and fast, or HERO, or Eclair, or max features, or keeping up with latest Android, etc. The goal is people can read the purpose/strategy/mission of each rom and decide which ROM they want to use and support (also financially) and keep track off. Each ROM needs to have 2 or 3 lead devs in charge.. so if one leaves that continuation is not an issue. If I can follow one Rom and use it for months.. I am much more willing to contribute $ then continually having to jump ship because of abandoned Roms...
If we would structure things this way, the leads for each of those main Roms, likely can live on this part time, we'd get dedicated people, and continuous progress, and results people can use... and it would open the development work to a more mainstream audience...
Cool story, bro.
lol.. your probably gonna get flamed....
but, the thing is they are "PORTING" roms that are not made for the G1/MT3G, most dev's are posting them as "unstable" or "experimental". The problem is that the users are expecting too much. The time it took you to write up all that could have been used to post bug reports.
I agree tho, that there needs to be more centralization with bug reports, more team work involved. Cyanogen and his buddies are doing a great job, I hope the other dev's can learn to work with him, contribute to his builds etc...
Also if your flashing rom's like crazy, its probably a hobby, if you want stable go back to stock and unroot your device
CaptainShanks said:
Cool story, bro.
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quoted for lulz
Bravo! Something that needed to be said since I stopped coming here 5 months ago because of all the bs. Facts are as simple as 4.0.4 was the best g1 roms and most stable since.. well ever. Every rom released since has in my opinion sucked HARD. I've flashed every single freaking one released and I've been visually impressed.. cause the themes are cool.. but i've been slow, and crashing apk's constantly. I don't like where the rom community is going. I believe all themed roms should be put into the Theme section and all of them marked unstable. and all the offical roms posted here. I'd even stretch and say this is one of the reasons Cyanogen removed his threads here. He knows his stuff needs more work and didn't want it here until it was ready. But kids and linking his work and messing around cause they're wannabe programmers and really ruining this site... I'm done ranting but kudo's Alec well said.
I'm hoping Froyo w/JIT comes to the G1/MT3G, Cyanogen will probably be the first with a froyo build, it seems the android dev's are pushing out froyo already Let's wait, be patient, submit bug reports, support the dev's that are spending hours a day porting this **** over..
preach on brother man. but yeah, i mean, the community has always had its drama which whatever..... but really, firerat has been the only one doing what this community used to be about which is helping lend support to other devs roms.
i mean even if you look a couple months back, yeah sure you had about 3 maybe 4 diferent hero roms out there and maybe 3 other 1.6 roms plus Cyanogen's stuff..... but then again the community was alot larger (obviously before 2.1 and before the N1). now we have far less devs, but the same amount of roms. i mean, slide port alone has about 5-6 different ports and it just came out. same with legend and everything else. back then it wouldnt be strange to have several devs on one rom. now its one maybe 2 doing stuff on here (besides CM and teamdouche). they embody what the community used to be about, and the turn is really what has pushed some other mods away.
ive had a cliq and i have talked to eugene and barak about it. the mentality of everyone here basically pushed them away. thats why they dev on the cliq/behold. heck. the cliq community pitched in to get one dev a replacement phone after he bricked and its been sent around to several devs for them to pitch in on the phone since it has different bootloader images etc and its not worth going into bc its a crazy rediculous device. the "community cliq" is basically the phone that gets sent around to make sure development keeps going.
not that im saying we should do that but it just shows that other android devices have much tighter knit communities and dont have anywhere near the bs that we do. for example last night, some guy put out a thread SAYING he took a rom put out by other devs that dropped it, and did some work, then resigned and released. no one said he claimed full ownership of it. then someone has to come into his thread and start uselessly contributing. at that time he replied how he felt which is completely understandable, and he was right in ending the post by saying to continue it on twitter if he wanted to continue the conversation to get on twitter or start something in gen discussion (which where this should prob be btw but i understand the reason for putting it here so more would see). these threads should be for releases and bug repports and ideas for development. not saying awesome! or i cant wait to flash this! or most definatly hey everyone i wouldnt bother flashing this bc someone else is releasing this tomorrow and it will waste your time. that pushed another possible dev away. sure he might not have been super dev who would create his own rom from source, but he might have had a different look at something that might have helped speed up a rom or stop an issue.
moral to the story- were all on the same team, we dont need to shoot ourselves in the foot.
*yes i know this post has grammar and spelling errors. this isnt english class. thats my .02 cents
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
Not much to say on this since I run cdma hero but I do come over here alot to check up to see if anything new thats good has popped for my girls phone up and although I agree partially with what your saying but your approach is wrong. And if you want a good rom two things you can do is make it your self or buy a sprint hero and come on over to our neck of the woods
Looks like someone forgot to take their 'Happy Pills'.
not sure on this guy himself but ive been looking into it for awhile, have the stock system dumps of a couple of dif sense roms and once i feel as though i have a good understanding of the java aspect/coding of it i fully plan on starting. right now im just messing around with apps. basic stuff. but i would be more than happy if anyone did wanna lend a hand at any time.
i wish that if you wanted to submit a rom, you would do it to a site, that would then take and post the rom with no name on it. users could submit bugs anonymously and the dev can then fix the problems. the users would submit a form having required fields like what type of device, sd card information, any apps added/removed and comments sections as well. this would then make it so it was all annonoymous. it wouldnt be hey have you flashed that new hero 5 v6 rom? or that eclair 3 v2 has a problem with wifi, i reported it and it should be fixed in v3. the only people who would have problems with it are people wanting credit. if no one takes credit and no one gives credit...... then where is the issue. people have problems with person b using person a stuff and getting credit for it. well if theres no way to tell who took what from where then what does it matter? unless your a credit whore it doesnt.
the dev i respect more than anyone out there is Barakinflorida.... guy never asked for a donation from anyone, guy is willing to lend a hand and talk to you about whatever it is you have to ask. by far the nicest guy in the android community. and he did it the right way. untill drizzy put him on blast at the end of his thing outing him as the one who basically helped him when he needed it, he was an unknown besides to the main devs and a small group of others.
and its not like the basic ideal of the OP couldnt be achieved. theres all kinds of sites that you can go to to host where people can go and update with their own edits. and if people want credit who cares. take and have them sign the mods they make or things they add/remove and then throw their name on the big board.
whoever has anything to say about credit, i say this.... take the free apps you use, we wont even use the stock OS' since they get paid by big companies (and i know no one will be able to list a developer who deved on one of the stock os' ne ways), and tell me each person who was on that dev team. sure one or two you might be able to. but on most of them..... you prob wont. ie- level up studios, seesmic. its free. how many people use it? and who created it???
exactly.
XxKOLOHExX said:
Who said you needed to flash them... For a person with the audacity to tell people that there rom sucks or anything of that matter and you haven't even touched a rom except to download, drag, drop, flash, and flame. People start somewhere not knowing what the hell they are doing to great developers like Cyanogen (and team) Firerat, pershoot, dumfuq, etc. I am dumfounded someone with 82 posts could be so belligerent when they have absolutely no idea how long it takes to theme or make a rom. Before you tell people to grow, I suggest you take your own advice and shove it where the sun don't shine.
If you want stable, unroot and get your *** back to stock...
All I am going to say on this topic.
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+1000000000000
The only point the OP got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to Dream/Magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: zach, king, king, king, and king) but I never really expected that a Sense ROM would go super fast on our first gen devices.
Dude, you guys still don't get it... long as you got those big ass "Donate" buttons, and you idiots keep giving them money, and thus, incentive, it's not gonna stop...
I've said it before and I'll say it again (I myself pulled about 500 bucks from two rom series I made):
Contribute code/knowledge, not money. Learn how to do things yourself.
As long as people can make a buck off of simple stuff like porting, they'll continue doing it, subpar as it's always been.
That'll weed out the file-pushers, something every idiot who can use a browser can do, and leave those who actually have something to contribute doing so.
r0man said:
+1000000000000
the only point the op got right is that devs will call almost anything ported to dream/magic as stable and fast (the worst offenders: Zach, king, king, king, and king) but i never really expected that a sense rom would go super fast on our first gen devices.
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hahahahaha
rom
this rom sucks. I tried to flash it and it just hangs. This dev sucks. I thought my g1 was gonna grow up into a nexus one. This **** ain't stable at all. To the op "FIX THE DAMN SMS"
would be neat to see a tree with branches for Ramhack, crazy O.C kernels, stable non-crazy kernels, etc... so that we can actually compare apples with apples when it comes to speed from all these weird and wonderful hacks. but thats about it...
I didnt know 12 year olds were making roms, maybe we need to call authorities since I sense a sweat shop! Also, I dont see you creating any roms. You and many other *****ing bastards are the main reason why we cant have nice things in life.
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
RaffieKol said:
you know he is true.
When I had my windows phone its was a lot of good **** going on hear (and the mods were more understanding)
I never post anything here anymore cause it will get deleted by a mod/admin you cant even ask a question without a million people saying why don't you use search.
Anyways thinks for The roms CyanogenMod or Steve cause in IMO he is the only one that deserves it. Every one just trys to make his **** better and by the time they do get it stable he has already released a stable version
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A very sad but true statement indeed. I have seen many people on here asking a question only to be told: wrong thread, use search, MOD close this thread! All of that is just ridiculous.. oh yeah.. goodbye in case I get BANNED!
Well i do agree there is a bunch of unnecessary roms out there. I think it would be more beneficial to give support to the main roms like Cyan, instead of making a new rom out of each release.
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
I'm using an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
Yes I'm using Cronos Froyo, and I'm an honest user who doesn't care much for xda forums politics.
I've read the comments that the moderators have written in the thread and whilst I understand what they have written, do end users really have to suffer because of a dispute between developers?
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
Also, I wonder if the xda moderators have consulted laywers about the GPL as it is a legal document and thus won't be as black and white as it seems. A lot of companies behave not dissimilarly to feeyo and survive the threat of any action.
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
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Click to collapse
I believe he still releases in his forum - just do a google search
nope, it seems his account has been suspended on the domain, not good.
plonkersaurus said:
sing an AOSP Froyo rom and I can't seem to find any others let alone one which everything works in.
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There's AOSP ROMs. Without even plugging my own, there's the Fusion project for a start.
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
Dude. You might as well turn xda into thepiratebay.Breaking a software licence is illegal no matter if the software is proprietary or open source.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
plonkersaurus said:
Froyd and Fusion are Cyanogen based roms which I've tried and don't work so well for me.
I'd count them as Vanilla roms not AOSP
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Click to collapse
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Hacre said:
The only non AOSP thing about them is:
They include Google Apps
They include proprietary libs grabbed from the phone to make the phone work.
Guess what, that's what AOSP ROMs do too, the ones released here anyway, since they're largely unusable without Google Apps (Market, etc) and the libs needed to make the phone work.
If you want plain AOSP, you better have an ADP1, ADP2 or a Nexus One. There is no such thing as a pure AOSP Hero ROM.
What people mean when they refer to AOSP, is they yanked the git straight from Android and compiled it for X phone, adding in whatever apps along with the Google apps and the prop libs.
Cyanogenmod is also AOSP in that same sense. Only there's a ton of people working on the repo and fixing stuff that Android don't or haven't yet.
If you've run into a CM based ROM that doesn't work well for you then it's still down to the builder. Chances are if they made an "AOSP" ROM, it'd be even worse.
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Cyanogenmod roms change a lot more things than just needed to get android working properly and I'm not a huge fan of all the changes
plonkersaurus said:
Hi,
What should I do if the rom I am using and really like has disappeared and now is unsupported?
.....
Yes I agree in principle that source should be released with the release, but don't other rom devs have a donators only beta testing section before general release for testing which also occurs before source code release? Feeyo as far as I'm aware takes no donations what so ever.
.....
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
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Click to collapse
1... Switch to another ROM, or stick with what you have, they are your two options.
2... No, other devs do not have a "donators only beta testing section", and regardless if they did or not, I think you need to go and re-read all the info the mods have given about the GPL issue before adding your 2 pence worth.
3... I owe feeyo nothing. He may have produced ROMS, but contribute to the community he did not.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
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Click to collapse
Hahaha what. Being a developer doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
EDIT: woah..
plonkersaurus said:
Beyond this, hero users really owe a lot to feeyo for the couple of months before official 2.1 got released as he was the only dev to get 2.1 working properly with long lasting battery life.
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Click to collapse
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
Hacre said:
Hahaha what. Being a develloper doesn't mean you "get" the point of the GPL. Plenty of developers over at Microsoft don't "get" it. That doesn't make it any less valid.
In fact your entire post just screams "I do not understand open source development, what on Earth is wrong with people doing stuff themselves and hoarding it".
The "pioneering development" as you put it doesn't happen by individuals because it happens in groups. You know, lots of minds working towards a common goal.
Jesus on a bike.
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Click to collapse
I didn't mention GPL anywhere in my post.
I mentioned that I wouldn't help this community due to the fact people would be accepting donations for what would be in part my work which I think is immoral.
That is what my post was about.
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
plonkersaurus said:
Plus I think you will find Linus wrote Linux by himself so individuals are capable of greatness.
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Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
plonkersaurus said:
I'm actually a professional software developer.
The Hero community here, as it is, I would never contribute to, because I wouldn't want my work included into someone elses rom that they then take donations for (I would never ask for donations for my work) especially since there seems to be no pioneering development going on by themselves.
So I see feeyo as someone like me, but with a drive to get things working on the hero.
In my eyes he is a bit like a vigilante or I guess like Batman. What Batman does is illegal too you know.
Sometimes there is such thing as the lesser of two evils and the greater good.
He harmed no one doing what he did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't want to share then Android is not for you.
And why the big deal about asking for donations. Its not free to run a site. And a donation is hardly mandatory, the clue is in the name, no-one was bent over and forced to do anything they never wanted to.
I have used Villain on and off since Feb and haven't donated a penny.
.... and Batman? Really? Yes he makes the decisions that no one else can, for the greater good, the bigger picture... he doesn't play hero just to boost his own ego.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Hacre said:
EDIT: woah..
I missed this when I first read the OP. Hahaha no he wasn't. Battery life has to be one of the most done to death topics on these forums and do you know what? Your battery life is solely dependent on you the phone user, providing of course the developer or the cooker hasn't done something utterly retarded to the ROM that causes battery to run down.
Until Froyo was released, Cronos wasn't even a compiled ROM it was a precompiled Sense ROM and as such subject to all the whims of the HTC base that the rest of us were.
Oh and I don't owe him anything. Never used his ROM, never benefited from what he apparently gave back to the community (nothing). He owed me and whomever else asked him for it, source code, which happened to be the one thing he never once provided while being happy to make use of source code provided by others.
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Click to collapse
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
plonkersaurus said:
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
plonkersaurus said:
Ok, so you never used his rom. I did and it was leagues ahead of anything else at the time. It made our phones really usable with 2.1. I remember when it was first released it was in the top 5 threads for a week on the front page of xda so I'm sure I wasn't the only one to experience this.
Also, sometimes it's the way you ask for something. I never once saw you ask for the source code with a view to work with him on it, only to get access to it. I know you are going to spout GPL rules now but I would rather not provide them knowing they will be taken over and most likely I would not be included in development in a "team" way, and rather take the punishment when it came of being banned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right, maybe they wouldn't have let him be in the team, maybe they would have. Who cares, they would have had to credit it to him either way, just as they credit help from other developers now.
The main point is that he wasn't willing to help push things forward. He wanted all the spotlight for himself.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Hacre said:
Re check your history. Linus did not write Linux by himself. He wrote the first kernel by himself. Linux wasn't truly born until he released it along with the source code and people started fixing it, writing drivers for it and writing coreutils/toolchains around it. It didn't approach anything like popular until it got x86 support and the kernel reached a level of maturity in the 2.0.x releases. Collaborative development/debugging. It's an amazing thing. Stunted quickly by the "I will not share" attitude that you're defending and supporting.
I am genuinely curious as to how you can guarantee that people will receive donations for your work. Or why you'd even care. My kernel source tree is used by others, I don't lose a wink of sleep over whether they get donations for their finished ROM or not, it doesn't matter.
Donations are just that, donations. They are not a fee. They are not someone taking someone else's work and then charging for it. They're something that an individual feels that they want to give to someone out of the kindness of their hearts as a thank you as well as the fact that donations are quite a rarity.
I got my first donation today. It'll buy me a few beers. It won't make me rich. I got it for my work on the kernel and my work on the Villain 2.2 ROMs. Have a guess how many people at Villain are now pissy that I got a donation and not the project itself. None. Have a guess how many GNU developers are now hand wringing themselves with pure fret because some guy got bought a beer for some work he did on their code. None.
You didn't have to mention the GPL in your post. The GPL is why these ridiculous threads keep springing up, it was the GPL and the failure to adhere to it, that got Feeyo canned.
People with your attitude toward community development have no place on these forums. Kindly take the door that has a Feeyo shaped hole in it.
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Click to collapse
I think the problem here is your attitude, you seem to think you own the place. I am free to stay here as I wish as far as I know. I also don't believe you are reading my posts correctly as you seem to think I am against community programming which is further from the truth.
I never said I wouldn't share. I wouldn't share with you. I think community programming is great all things being equal. It seems to me that the hero community here is terrible right now and thus I wouldn't help it.
Getting people banned definitely isn't making you friends either. I honestly never saw you wanting to work with feeyo only to get at his work.
I would have no problem helping out trying to get android to work on the Xperia X1 and supplying my source code as that is a true example of people working together.
Hacre said:
My first four or five requests were incredibly polite. There were a plethora of polite request the first time he pulled this stunt too. My reason for asking was irrelevant. However my reason for asking for those particular sources, were twofold:
1: I didn't believe it.
2: If it was true then the community should damn well get access to it so we as a group can get it up to full working order so that EVERY ROM DEVELOPER can make use of it.
Taken over? What? I now don't believe that you're a developer, at least nothing outside pointing and clicking in a GUI based programming tool in some office somewhere, because you clearly have no idea of what collaborative development is. You cannot shut anyone, ANYONE, out of a GPL project, that's the whole frigging point. See my signature? Source code. Source code anyone can take and modify. Source code people are welcome to change, fix, port, patch and if they want to, submit a pull request so I can merge those fixes in.
Click the link. Follow the fork tree. Observe the magic as my changes move upstream to the original cyanogenmod + Hero kernel. Observe further magic as changes they make merge their way down into my kernel. Yeah I/we are really all about shutting people out.
Stop trolling.
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Click to collapse
That's not what I mean by shutting people out. I'm not trolling but replying to your false accusations.
You are also trying to personally discredit me by calling me a point and click GUI programmer which is below the belt. You know nothing about me.
What I mean is, working together as these roms are virtually the same project is about communicating. Something that would not have happened and does in a real collaborative effort.
I'm sick of this thread and having to defend myself because you fail to understand what working together really means. And no it's not just following rules. It's obvious you aren't a professional programmer. People skills and management are just as important as being able to program and that is the point I am trying to get at.
I think you've formed your opinion and regardless of how many times Hacre blows your point out of the water, your not going to be swayed are you. He shouldn't even have to explain himself to you, every point had been covered in the other fan threads already.
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
UPDATE: In the potential circumstance that a leak has been watermarked and job(s) are at stake then I think I speak for everyone in saying that a ROM should not be publicly released unless the watermark has been removed (if that's impossible, then it still shouldn't be released). This petition is not unique to the DK05 leak; it goes for any leak that is not watermarked. The reason I am posting it now is because people have cited bricking problems over watermarking in DK05.
This thread was made to unify and organize the voices of those who feel that it is our own responsibility to decide whether or not we should flash potentially unsafe ROMs, specifically leaks.
We feel that it is NOT the responsibility of the developers or the XDA staff to protect us from potentially unsafe ROMs.
We have seen that at least some staff, and at least some developers feel that it is their responsibility to protect us from potentially unsafe ROMs.
We would like to firmly but kindly remind these people that we and we alone should decide what gets flashed onto our phones.
We would like to remind them that we can and will take full responsibility for whatever happens when we flash these ROMs.
We would like to remind them that we can and will use the various guides to restore our phone if something goes seriously wrong.
Finally, we would like to remind them that those people who don't take full responsibility for flashing a potentially unsafe ROM can and should be dealt with through methods that do not impact the community at large.
Sign by posting if you are one of us. Please post only once and do not post if you are not signing. There are numerous other threads open for discussion.
Signed
Though I find when one part if a community is forced to petition another for fair treatment that's a bad sign
WHAT DO WE WANT? BRICKED PHONES! WHEN DO WE WANT EM? NOW!!!!!
xda mods, please dont make my decisions for me. if i want to chug four loko and flash buggy beta roms i should have the right to do so!
i dont need a nanny.
Signed... I don't understand what the problem was with releasing dk05? I am running it just fine. Now if I remember correctly we could brick our phones from flashing to anything not just betas. Isn't that what the devs always put in the op "I do not take responsibility if your phone gets bricked due to flashing this rom" or something along those lines. I do not see why nothing could be said like that and just gave us the damn leak in the first place.. oh well though, I got it anyways. Thanks.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Signed...sgs are unbrickable...u can even jimmy rig some resistors and force into dl mode if u mess up that far ....odin flash ur good to go... All the excuses we have been given r just that...excuses...how about we as a community educate..well ... The community....once a strong base is established..guess what the community will grow and there will be infinitely less useless threads pop up
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
NotATreoFan said:
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
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Click to collapse
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
muyoso said:
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if it's only a thread, you are still demanding. And unless you are that dev's significant other or their boss, you have absolutely no right to do this.
muyoso said:
While I agree with you 100%, when developers post all over the forums and brag about roms that they have and how awesome they are while refusing to share with the rest of us, that is pretty ****ty and does nothing but piss people off. This has happened with EVERY SINGLE LEAK. Even in the thread where the DK05 rom was leaked, the very people denouncing the leak were bragging about having DK17, i mean seriously? The reason that this behavior didn't occur with Windows Mobile was that the devs actually EXPLAINED to their users what was going on and updated them instead of keeping them in the dark. I have no problem with Devs not releasing the roms, but if you are going to brag about having them to the rest of the forum, you better start a damn thread and at least give us updates on what the rom fixes or breaks and the cool features that Samsung is including in said rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally a reply with an argument... Here is the deal. Even if they are hitting you in the face with the leak, that still does not entitle you to have it nor you have any right to demand it. Period, there is no way around it. Nor you, me, the other admins, or anyone in this place can force a dev to do otherwise.
As for the "teaser" threads, I agree... I personally don't like those as more often than not, they are used to drive up donations, which is why Rule 11 is currently being amended to prevent this from happening. It is like eating a 12 oz stake in front of a starving child, not cool. However, there is a thin line between a teaser and a closed beta. This was supposed to be a closed beta, and it ended up being a leaked leak.
BTW, Not Signed either...
NotATreoFan said:
NOT Signed.
What the OP is leaving out in this "petition" is the fact that these leaks are watermarked with specific code that allows "the powers that be" to easily discover the source of said leak.
So basically, everyone signing this "petition" is demanding that developers share their internal/confidential leaks with the public because you have a selfish sense of entitlement, and don't give a rat's a** if someone loses their job over it. Behavior like this, which is 98% exclusive to Android, is precisely why I waited several years before leaving Windows Mobile.
/end my rant as an Android user and someone with a common sense of decency. The preceding post was done not as a Moderator, and is strictly my personal observation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't assume that this is about DK05/any watermarked leak (if DK05 is in fact watermarked). I've updated the first post.
I'll take this opportunity as my 1 post to sign my own petition. Everyone else please return to normal.
Well what is the real case here because I also read a post saying that the exact same korean dudes info is on the SPRINT stock di18 which,if true, would leave all argument moot. So maybe someone will be kind enough to try and confirm compare stock di18, dg27 etc
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Today is a great day to go visit other forums. Too many self-righteous adults acting like spoiled children in xda today.
(not directed specifically at this thread, it's just one of many in the past few days)
NotATreoFan said:
Even if it's only a thread, you are still demanding. And unless you are that dev's significant other or their boss, you have absolutely no right to do this.
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Click to collapse
The point of this petition is that people don't want to be "protected" in that way..it is unrelated to the watermarks or the demands...It is understandable if something is not released due to a watermark that can effect someone's job...BUT if the said case is merely "its for your own good cause you can brick your phone" thats what the petition is about and strictly that..lets not bundle multiple issues in 1.
That said, this should have been a poll rather then people responding as it was bound to get discussion within it >.>
gTen said:
The point of this petition is that people don't want to be "protected" in that way..it is unrelated to the watermarks or the demands...It is understandable if something is not released due to a watermark that can effect someone's job...BUT if the said case is merely "its for your own good cause you can brick your phone" thats what the petition is about and strictly that..lets not bundle multiple issues in 1.
That said, this should have been a poll rather then people responding as it was bound to get discussion within it >.>
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Click to collapse
That would be the dev's prerogative/excuse. Again, still no one is entitled to demand for anything around here, as stated by NATF.
zigarath said:
Well what is the real case here because I also read a post saying that the exact same korean dudes info is on the SPRINT stock di18 which,if true, would leave all argument moot. So maybe someone will be kind enough to try and confirm compare stock di18, dg27 etc
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Heres the part about the "Korean dude" whos name is on DK05 and DI bklah blah whatever.All that is is the name of the machine that built the build in the first place thats all it is nothing more its not the owner of the leaked build just the name of the machine that built it.
Thanks skeet for clearing this up...have enjoyed ur work thus far and thank u for ur time to educate us.. So to end this please no more arguments or discussions of watermarks endangering an employees job as these arguments are now pointless lets keep threads focused to ops topic...and grow from this
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
No problem I am surprised noboby has said that yet in all the times I have seen people talk about that ShinLi or whatever the name is the the server farm/single machine that spends its life building Android for our phones.
egzthunder1 said:
That would be the dev's prerogative/excuse. Again, still no one is entitled to demand for anything around here, as stated by NATF.
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Its a petition..to try to express the beliefs of the community..as stated its a different issue from the watermark or demand..if the dev doesn't want to release thats fine too..its their choice..but one thing we do demand is respect as based on rule 2.5 (if I am interpreting it correctly)...so we don't want an excuse of "We aren't releasing it because it will brick your phone and you won't know what to do" kind of thing...
this is ridiculous
i haven't posted very much in these forums, and don even have an epic yet. i plan on getting one in feb and was doing research since i haven't been on a stock rom for more than a day in years.
that being said i just wanted to say that no one owes any of us anything. the devs in this community are not here to be your slaves. non of us have any right to ask when a rom will be completed, demand any leaked information, or even have access to this site at all. i don't know about you but i haven't paid a penny for this site and I've gotten plenty of benefit by using the information here.
I just want to say thank you to all the devs on these forums and keep up the good work. i look forward to flashing a customer rom on my future epic as i have on my kaiser, rhodium and aria.
also petition not signed.
gTen said:
Its a petition..to try to express the beliefs of the community..as stated its a different issue from the watermark or demand..if the dev doesn't want to release thats fine too..its their choice..but one thing we do demand is respect as based on rule 2.5 (if I am interpreting it correctly)...so we don't want an excuse of "We aren't releasing it because it will brick your phone and you won't know what to do" kind of thing...
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Click to collapse
You are not out of line in wanting respect, once it has been earned. For the record, I am not trying to say that is the case here. But resorting to demands and petitions will not help the overall situation. If you or anyone else feels like someone is behaving in a questionable or suspicious/cocky manner, please use the Report Post option, and we will review and address the situation accordingly.
I understand, after 2+ years, that ROM development and the forums for the EVO are gonna slow down. Devs are going to move on to other devices, but there is a really disturbing trend here that is irritating the hell out of me.
ROMs used to be released as Aplha's Beta's RC's, final, etc. You could look at the OP and see everything about the ROM. Devs took their time crafting something unique.
Now, I'm seeing these ROMS come out at a rapid pace and I'm not liking it for several reasons.
1) Poorly written OP's that don't even list the Android base version or the kernel, etc.
2) The same ROM with different names and the only real differences are a few 3rd party apps, or a slight theme change.
3) ROMs released as finals, with a ton of bugs. I'm not talking about FFC, Netflix, 4G bugs on ICS/JB ROMS; I'm talking about ROMS with no Wifi, for example. The majority use WiFi. Why the HELL would you release something where one of the most important aspects doesn't even work?? It's like not paying attention to details is suddenly OK
Settings that don't stick. Sounds that don't stick. Constant System Process Errors. These are pre-release errors, and I don't see them getting fixed, because it's become like a race to port every other ROM from every other device and tweak to boot up on the Evo, then letting it go.
I REALLY wish I could take the time and learn how to properly cook up my own ROM. My OCD of paying attention to details would probably make it great.
Hipkat thats the best thing ive heard in weeks,someone finally speaking out about the BS thats being posted now days and its like everyones in a race to see who can come out with the most borked roms,lol,like you said,they are all the same,except the apps and some themeing and half of them cant do that either,i'm sure this isnt meant to be a bashing session,its just getting rediculous with the drama some are causing and all the crappy ass roms being released,some guys do know what their doing,theres been 1 or 2 that i've put out that i shouldnt have,but come on guys at least take your time and try to do it right,only takes a little common sense and effort.If you havent noticed,over half the members and devs have left because of the BS,when i started doing roms,it was fun,nows its just a big joke,lol.
I dont care if anyone gets pissed about this and i'm sure they will,but oh well life goes on,you will eventually get over it.
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
HipKat said:
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't Dev, Cook, Build, Port or whatever term is used so I have alot of respect for those that do. With that being said I would also state that I am in complete agreement with you and Diablo.
I look at damned near every topic started in the Dev forum just to see what is being made. I take weeks to look at a new ROM and follow the threads to see what comes of it (with the only exception being Mazda's new CAJB ROM. On that one I went with name recognition and am pleased that I did)
In regards to the mass influx of ROMs I'll say this: If you guys don't take the time to keep up with each item you produce, work on bugs, add new options, answer questions from the users then you'll soon find yourself out of favor. Your reputation here, just like in RL, is something of value. It takes very little to earn trust, respect and loyalty. Most people will always give you the benefit of the doubt. Do something to devalue that trust and it can be nearly impossible to regain.
I think some wisdom can be gleaned by the following quote:
jamieg71 said:
I've seen devs, chefs, hackers, w/e, that make statements like "I do this for myself and just choose to share" or things to that effect. I call BS. I won't speak for anyone else but myself when I say, I do this for the thrill of it, for the challenge, to learn, and to share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about d/l numbers or that seeing my thanks meter grow did not give me some juvenalalistic (is that a word?) thrill. The fact is, guys like me doing this stuff get off on it...
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Click to collapse
We know why you do it, and if you want to keep your junkies and not lose your rep, then make sure you take the time to Develop your craft and thereby make a better product for the masses...
Sorry for the rant
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
HipKat said:
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...lol, 'nuff said!
I think everyone needs to remember the difference between Development and Port / Theme / Tweak / Mod. That simple labeling would be a start
Over in Evo LTE land, they have finally recognized this distinction by creating entirely separate forums for "HTC EVO 4G LTE Android Development" and "HTC EVO 4G LTE Original Android Development"
One is for tweaks or ports, and the other is for people who actually compile something.
I made a request for the same original dev section but got denied as our device is to old.
I agree that there are a ton of ports and not enough originality or bugs being fixed. What I would like to state us that the op is stating that a lot have some third party apps but that's like calling the kettle black. You yourself have a rerelease of a miui from where all you did was slap your team name in the thread. I believe the original thread still exists. I'm not calling you out at all but at the same time the work that goes into all these ports or mods or what not is a ton. I myself have my rom thread and some new stuff coming out but I don't call people out usually on their stuff unless its a pure kang(meaning an actual using of ur work with out permission) not a duplicate port.
Yeah some of the revs here could put a little more work in and for sure learn to organize their rom thread a whole hell of a lot better but at the same time who else do u see bringing the newest and best to a two year old device.
XDA Moderator
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
HipKat said:
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can agree with that there. sloppy op's without all the listings of what is added or taken out and what its running with a q & a section amoung other things.
I feel like we developers and porters alike should make a check list. Every time you want to post something, run through the list and then once everything is there, read again. If it seems like a business proposition (detailed, understandable, provocative and complete) then, that is the right moment to unleash it.
Thats exactly what i do,i make a list in notepad of what i want to do to the rom,then i go through and check it off as i go,wahla,i have a channelog,so to speak,then post it on the thread.Just like in my 4 Kornerz thread..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1612933
Same thing I'm gonna do as I try and update this MIUI GB ROM
What's funny is that the main reason I always hated opening ROM threads is because I'm completely OCD and feel like the posts have to make perfect sense. I try for my thread to make a little bit of sense at least at this point. And I try to keep change logs, bug reports & FAQs up to date.
But then again, I only have one ROM thread in this device section.
----------------------
Current Device: HTC EVO 4G LTE | ROM: toasted-deck CM10 | Kernel: Stock
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
smelkus said:
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, you forgot 'Lather, Rinse...'
Who else clicked the link
While I agree with the OP 100%, I think at the end of the day there is NO rule that states that you need to do all that..... This is for FREE, and therefore we should be happy with we get on our EVO's nowadays..... I wish developers took their time to put a fully detail change log, bug list Q&A's section, but honestly if we don't like the way certain devs handle their threads, then just move on to the next Rom either way I don't develop, and I can figure out most stuff regarding a Rom by myself now, so I'm just thankful for all the roms out for the og EVO.
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Sorry, but while I appreciate the freeness of the work done and am grateful for it, there should still be enough info to identify exactly what you're getting into.
Perfect example. A lot of ICS/JB ROMS require the patched A2SD file. Good luck finding it. Why not add a link to the OP?? Same with GAPPS
And the date that it was released is much appreciated, although not as critical. The Android version if it's a Sense and/or GB ROM is definitely something that should be there, along with the kernel.
PHE-NOM said:
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two teams merged. Some people have left teams. I myself left td to not look partial towards a certain group.
XDA Moderator
If you are stuck with a phone for which the manufacturer has stopped releasing updates, or if you are bored with your current Android version and want to try something new, or if you want to be on the latest Android security patches, or if you want to make use to theming engines such as Substratum (which may not work with your phone's default OS), or if you are just a hobbyist looking for something fresh…custom android roms provide you with the perfect solution for your needs. Made by developers and enthusiasts, custom roms illustrate the power of diversity that can come from an open source ecosystem.
In theory, at least.
Below is my commentary on my trysts with custom roms over the last year and half.
Disclaimer: My experiences are based mostly on three phones - Moto G4, Redmi Note 3 (kenzo, not kate), and OnePlus 3.
The Trouble with custom Roms
1. Barriers to Entry
Before you can even venture into the world of installing and trying out new roms, you must ensure that your phone is, in fact, ready for it. This requires steps like getting the bootloader unlocked (can be tricky with phones like Xiaomi etc.), installing custom recovery, and then flashing roms, and then flashing GApps. For most users, this is too much hassle that they can be bothered with. There is a significantly steep learning curve for the layperson.
Thereafter, you must see which ROMs are available for your phone, which are still in active development, which have less bugs etc. This requires a lot of time going through the forums. Otherwise, you will waste more time flashing and then reflashing continuously.
Which brings us to the second point.
2. Official, Unofficial, MOD….Abandoned!
So, you found your way around XDA forums…good job! Now, you must start figuring out the differences between Official and Unofficial roms, and what that implies. The situation gets even more complex, because often we assume that Official tag would imply active development and bugfixes, and security updates, and the like. However, there are many "Official" roms that are dead, but "unofficial" roms that are alive, with more bugfixes, and a wider community.
One example is Citrus-CAF for Kenzo Official, which is dead…but Customized LOS build by Umang, which is unofficial, which is going well.
So after a while, the user realizes that whether there is an Official tag or Unofficial tag, really doesn't matter for all practical purposes, and is quite frankly just confusing. So why even bother with the tags? Official builds are equally likely to be abandoned by the developers without any prior notice, as are unofficial builds. Which takes us to the next issue.
3. Abandoned!
Remember, why you hopped on to the custom roms scene in the first place? That your manufacturer has abandoned your device and you wanted something new and more up to date? Well, guess what?! Custom rom developers abandon their roms all the time, without any warning whatsoever, and you are stuck waiting for the next build, which never comes.
This is hidden under the courteous pretenses of asinine etiquettes such as… "Don't ask for ETAs..the developers have a life you know, they are doing this for free, so just wait."
Here is my gripe with this all-pervasive norm. The developers knew they have a life, and yet decided to commit to a project, and attracted other people to their roms. And people put their trust in the developer (phones have all our data, so allowing a random person's code willingly on our phones is an act of utmost good faith), reported bugs, went through the trouble of the learning curve. Some even donated to the projects. If you start a pet project in your backyard, which no one else is affected by, then by all means go ahead and abandon it whenever you like. But when you are making OSes, then have some accountability. Especially the Official tag ones.
So many developers are just computer science students who have exams and what not, and so although the title of the ROM thread might claim weekly updates, they are gone for a month (Eg. Resurrection Remix for Redmi Note 3). This gives the whole rom an amateurish feel, and often a user might decide to stick with the OEM because of a lack of confidence in such roms.
And what is so wrong with asking for ETAs? It requires the developer to make a commitment which they may not be in a position to honor. That's the problem. Which leads me to the next point.
4. Communication
There are some developers who are really good at communication and keeping their user base updated on what's happening behind the scenes. However, this is still a rarity. I wish more developers did that. Some start new threads, promise you the best experience there ever was in the history of humanity, stay online for a month, and then vanish without a trace…(Eg. dotOS).
I wish there were more developers like xyyx, and Franco who communicate, even when they are not uploading builds. It instills confidence.
5. Accountability
I recently directed a friend of mine to go to one of the many rom threads available for his phone, the OnePlus 5. He spent one night browsing the forums, and decided he did not want to install anything. I asked why, and he said, "All this is fine, but I cannot get past, the initial disclaimer itself. When a manufacturer messes up an update and bricks your phone, they are held accountable. It is their legal responsibility. But here, every single rom starts with … you are on your own, if I release an update which breaks your phone, then too bad, go cry somewhere else. I cannot abide by that."
And this got me thinking…for those of us, who are not so tech savvy, custom roms are indeed a scary proposition. Can we do something about it, to ensure a little bit more accountability and quality checks for Official roms at least?
6. Userbase/ Community
While the general populace here at XDA is extremely helpful, I have found that this forum is divided into sub-communities of varying degrees of niceness. The stark difference can be found in the sub-communities of Oneplus 3 custom rom versus that of Redmi Note 3. While the former group seems more mature and accepting of mistakes newcomers might make, that of the latter, is less forgiving.
Please take a look at the below just some of the thousands of examples of such conversations live on the forums.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Once you are done wondering about the relevance of an inquiry on your sexual orientation by a homophobic imbecile, on a custom rom forum, you find yourself guided by experts like this...
But the most common, useful advice of them all, repeated many times on custom rom forums is this....
Now I know the moderators clean the threads at regular intervals, but think from the perspective of that new user, a potential fellow enthusiast, who perhaps could have ventured into the custom rom scene and helped in various ways…think from that person's point of view….would they ever return to that rom? Every three pages of any rom, you will find such comments.
And this is a huge problem, I feel. Custom roms thrive on the community around them, much like Linux distributions. Developers and moderators must take more steps to ensure a more harmonious and cordial interaction on their forums.
Conclusion
Here are my takeaways from this journey so far
Installing custom roms is difficult, and a pain. With locked bootloaders, custom recoveries, Error 7, etc etc. There is very little a developer can do about this.
Currently, there seems to be no difference between Official and Unofficial roms from a user's perspective, so the tags are meaningless and confusing. That Official tag will start to mean something, only if there are more stringent conditions on quality, accountability, communication, and expectation of support and development. Otherwise, it is useless.
The community needs to be better moderated than it is, currently. Trolls are a fact of modern life, I know. But perhaps, we as a community can also moderate and shut down any such conversations, and help each other, better than we are doing.
Overall, I think, rather than depending solely on the developers and maintainers of a custom rom, I think it is upon us, the community, as a whole to make this ecosystem better for users and developers, enthusiasts and hobbyists, geeks and layperson, alike.
Lol
---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------
BTW good post
You should post this on medium and also email sites like androidpolice! You can get it published.
Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
It you don't want, then don't use custom roms. Developers don't force you to use them. Please atleast try to code for a simple app. Then complain about developers. Don't show disrespect to the developers who makes our phones awesome. If you don't want, then stick to stock rom.
At least with MIUI, you'll still be getting UI and security updates even if the kernel base is several generations behind. I love custom ROMs but they're not for the faint of heart, you have to be willing to fix a hard brick before you even think of flashing.
I also don't complain about ROMs or developers because these are all volunteer efforts. When I get home from work, I like to relax with a good ebook and a good workout... Developers spend their down time coding for all of us.
The real targets for indignation should be device and chipset vendors. They black-box most of their code using proprietary blobs and they delay or never release kernel sources, hindering the work of custom ROM developers. The unfortunate truth is that the mobile industry is obsessed with numbers and wants everyone to buy new phones every few months, old devices usually being thrown away. Custom ROMs keep these older phones working for a lot longer but this means reduced profits for the industry.
1emrys1 said:
You should post this on medium and also email sites like androidpolice! You can get it published.
Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Haha thank you.
karthikkarthik said:
It you don't want, then don't use custom roms. Developers don't force you to use them. Please atleast try to code for a simple app. Then complain about developers. Don't show disrespect to the developers who makes our phones awesome. If you don't want, then stick to stock rom.
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Click to collapse
Thank you for illustrating my point no. 6 very well. I was actually waiting for a comment like this.
To the readers who come here after, please see this post as an example of what is wrong with the community of Redmi Note 3 sub forums especially. If you don't like something, don't use it, but we will not improve or change or even consider how you the user might be feeling. In fact, we are really fine with using half-baked, buggy, and abandoned roms, because we defend this action in the above manner. And if you, the reader, don't like it, you can go to hell.
Thank you, for this illustration. I am sure xda would not be where it is today without such fanboys, and knights defending the honor of developers-in-hiding.
But, to others...We must be better than this.
But if I were to respond to you, I'd say...no one forced the developer either to publish his crappy rom, promise you regular updates, make a commitment to you, beg you for donations, promise you continuous support, gain the user's trust and....once his crappy rom has been flashed on your device....to just abandon it and leave...because well "he has a life".
Don't commit, if you can't follow through on your commitment. If you like making roms, make roms, and keep them to yourself. But when you make a promise, and when you get hundreds, if not thousands of people, to install your code on their device, then have the basic decency of accountability. Show your userbase the same respect you demand of them.
oatcooky said:
At least with MIUI, you'll still be getting UI and security updates even if the kernel base is several generations behind. I love custom ROMs but they're not for the faint of heart, you have to be willing to fix a hard brick before you even think of flashing.
I also don't complain about ROMs or developers because these are all volunteer efforts. When I get home from work, I like to relax with a good ebook and a good workout... Developers spend their down time coding for all of us.
The real targets for indignation should be device and chipset vendors. They black-box most of their code using proprietary blobs and they delay or never release kernel sources, hindering the work of custom ROM developers. The unfortunate truth is that the mobile industry is obsessed with numbers and wants everyone to buy new phones every few months, old devices usually being thrown away. Custom ROMs keep these older phones working for a lot longer but this means reduced profits for the industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I agree with you. It is really a pain...and when after a lot of efforts let's say someone manages to get something to work (Eg. VOLTE video call, Goodix fp etc), it is still mostly unreliable and buggy. This is not a developer side problem, but the manufacturer side issue like you correctly said.
My post is not only about developers. But about a lot of other things, including the community interactions and the whole sub-forum ecosystem. But just because it is a volunteer effort, doesn't mean you should not have certain standards. But anyway, I think the developer side of the issue is not as big as the community side of the issue. There is rampant abuse, personal attacks and what not, for asking simple questions and doubts, which are completely unnecessary. Everyone would leave like that, and what you are left with a bunch of people like the second post above quoted, who really don't give the community a better name. And its a vicious cycle that repeats itself. Perhaps, we can stop worrying about OEM strategies because it is not something that we can control, and start by things that we can control....like the interactions we have here.
The guys on posts that you screenshotted are doing what has to be done. If everyone stops spoonfeeding other people, posts like "plezz gimme the latest room link" will disappear eventually.
scrubjay55 said:
The guys on posts that you screenshotted are doing what has to be done. If everyone stops spoonfeeding other people, posts like "plezz gimme the latest room link" will disappear eventually.
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Click to collapse
So you happen to be one of the people who condone online abuse under the pretext of not 'spoonfeeding'? There are many ways to respond to the same queries without resorting to abuse and questioning people's sexual orientation. It's called being civilised. Which seems to be a rarity in these sub forums. Hence it is inaccessible to most newcomers.
And while many developers do post updated links and changelogs on the first post itself, and diligently update it periodically... Not all do.
The whole point of the article is to take more responsibility in being a more helpful community rather than abusing people.
Those guys should find other vents to take out their frustrations of life, elsewhere.
vypers said:
So you happen to be one of the people who condone online abuse under the pretext of not 'spoonfeeding'? There are many ways to respond to the same queries without resorting to abuse and questioning people's sexual orientation. It's called being civilised. Which seems to be a rarity in these sub forums. Hence it is inaccessible to most newcomers.
And while many developers do post updated links and changelogs on the first post itself, and diligently update it periodically... Not all do.
The whole point of the article is to take more responsibility in being a more helpful community rather than abusing people.
Those guys should find other vents to take out their frustrations of life, elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree with the OP in general, I disagree with this particular point. There are hundreds of people who just hop onto a thread with the usual dumb questions - "SOT?" "Muh VoLTE?" and so on without reading anything. They don't read the original dev posts, nor the following posts, not even the posts that are just above theirs, which sometimes even have the answer. They expect to get everything given to them - the links, the tutorial, the bug reports to the point where they basically expect you to install everything for them and even wipe their ass while you're leaving. You say, be cordial and don't abuse people, but that goes both ways. People should read more and stop abusing devs with utterly moronic questions.
Alan Ryan said:
While I agree with the OP in general, I disagree with this particular point. There are hundreds of people who just hop onto a thread with the usual dumb questions - "SOT?" "Muh VoLTE?" and so on without reading anything. They don't read the original dev posts, nor the following posts, not even the posts that are just above theirs, which sometimes even have the answer. They expect to get everything given to them - the links, the tutorial, the bug reports to the point where they basically expect to install everything for them and even wipe their ass while you're leaving. You say, be cordial and don't abuse people, but that goes both ways. People should read more and stop abusing devs with utterly moronic questions.
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Click to collapse
Yeah this is what i was trying to imply.
vypers said:
Haha thank you.
Thank you for illustrating my point no. 6 very well. I was actually waiting for a comment like this.
To the readers who come here after, please see this post as an example of what is wrong with the community of Redmi Note 3 sub forums especially. If you don't like something, don't use it, but we will not improve or change or even consider how you the user might be feeling. In fact, we are really fine with using half-baked, buggy, and abandoned roms, because we defend this action in the above manner. And if you, the reader, don't like it, you can go to hell.
Thank you, for this illustration. I am sure xda would not be where it is today without such fanboys, and knights defending the honor of developers-in-hiding.
But, to others...We must be better than this.
But if I were to respond to you, I'd say...no one forced the developer either to publish his crappy rom, promise you regular updates, make a commitment to you, beg you for donations, promise you continuous support, gain the user's trust and....once his crappy rom has been flashed on your device....to just abandon it and leave...because well "he has a life".
Don't commit, if you can't follow through on your commitment. If you like making roms, make roms, and keep them to yourself. But when you make a promise, and when you get hundreds, if not thousands of people, to install your code on their device, then have the basic decency of accountability. Show your userbase the same respect you demand of them.
Yes, I agree with you. It is really a pain...and when after a lot of efforts let's say someone manages to get something to work (Eg. VOLTE video call, Goodix fp etc), it is still mostly unreliable and buggy. This is not a developer side problem, but the manufacturer side issue like you correctly said.
My post is not only about developers. But about a lot of other things, including the community interactions and the whole sub-forum ecosystem. But just because it is a volunteer effort, doesn't mean you should not have certain standards. But anyway, I think the developer side of the issue is not as big as the community side of the issue. There is rampant abuse, personal attacks and what not, for asking simple questions and doubts, which are completely unnecessary. Everyone would leave like that, and what you are left with a bunch of people like the second post above quoted, who really don't give the community a better name. And its a vicious cycle that repeats itself. Perhaps, we can stop worrying about OEM strategies because it is not something that we can control, and start by things that we can control....like the interactions we have here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like I said earlier. Nobody forces you to use their custom rom. And nobody begs for donations. First try to code atleast a line before posting such s*** posts. Then you will know how hard it is. You are just a noob trying to showoff by showing your hollow brain ?. Just pathetic.
karthikkarthik said:
Just like I said earlier. Nobody forces you to use their custom rom. And nobody begs for donations. First try to code atleast a line before posting such s*** posts. Then you will know how hard it is. You are just a noob trying to showoff by showing your hollow brain . Just pathetic.
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Click to collapse
To Other Readers:
Dear Reader, this is an example of personal attack by a member of the custom rom community. When such a person has nothing substantial to say, they will assume things about you (In the screenshot in the original post it was questioning someone's sexual identity, and here that one doesn't know "a line of code" and is a "noob"). They will then proceed to abuse you by trying to dissolve any credibility that you might have. Actually their entire message will not have anything of substance, and will not contribute in any meaningful way to a productive discussion.
In fact, it might be factually incorrect too.
Eg. "nobody begs for donations". As you can see below, the above respondent is actually more ignorant than what they may accuse you of being.
1.
2.
3.
4.
Oh and BTW,
In fact, the respondent himself has solicited donations in the past, it would seem...:silly::silly:
Before abandoning that project, as was one of the points in the original post.
So you, dear reader, may choose to ignore such comments. You will find such comments and aggression littered across all custom rom sub forums. But it is not representative of the larger XDA community, I assure you, which is more helpful and forthcoming than this.
***
P.S. Yes, I can code. Been at it more than 8 years now. Not custom roms, of course (otherwise why would I post the article). So much for assumptions of me being a 'noob' and 'not knowing how to code' LOL. :good:
Nice post. :good:
vypers said:
To Other Readers:
Dear Reader, this is an example of personal attack by a member of the custom rom community. When such a person has nothing substantial to say, they will assume things about you (In the screenshot in the original post it was questioning someone's sexual identity, and here that one doesn't know "a line of code" and is a "noob"). They will then proceed to abuse you by trying to dissolve any credibility that you might have. Actually their entire message will not have anything of substance, and will not contribute in any meaningful way to a productive discussion.
In fact, it might be factually incorrect too.
Eg. "nobody begs for donations". As you can see below, the above respondent is actually more ignorant than what they may accuse you of being.
1.
2.
3.
4.
Oh and BTW,
In fact, the respondent himself has solicited donations in the past, it would seem...:silly::silly:
Before abandoning that project, as was one of the points in the original post.
So you, dear reader, may choose to ignore such comments. You will find such comments and aggression littered across all custom rom sub forums. But it is not representative of the larger XDA community, I assure you, which is more helpful and forthcoming than this.
***
P.S. Yes, I can code. Been at it more than 8 years now. Not custom roms, of course (otherwise why would I post the article). So much for assumptions of me being a 'noob' and 'not knowing how to code' LOL. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you does stalk on my profile and abuse me personally. Bravo ???? wasn't you the one whining about them ?.
And I didn't beg for donations as you can see.
And as far as I can see, "8 years experienced code expert" doesn't seem to have contributed anything to community other than some whining posts about s***.
I don't think you are even worth the reply.
---------- Post added at 03:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 AM ----------
If you don't want to use other developers custom rom. Fine. The device tree is in github. You can easily make one yourself instead of whining. Then only noobs like you would know how hard it is. I don't think you know even to reboot to recovery. ?
karthikkarthik said:
So you does stalk on my profile and abuse me personally. Bravo wasn't you the one whining about them .
And I didn't beg for donations as you can see.
And as far as I can see, "8 years experienced code expert" doesn't seem to have contributed anything to community other than some whining posts about s***.
I don't think you are even worth the reply.
---------- Post added at 03:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 AM ----------
If you don't want to use other developers custom rom. Fine. The device tree is in github. You can easily make one yourself instead of whining. Then only noobs like you would know how hard it is. I don't think you know even to reboot to recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Let's try your own logic of "nobody is forcing you to use custom roms etc etc." I posted something. I didn't ask you personally to read it or comment on it. If you didn't like what you were reading, then you could have have stopped after the first paragraph and left the page. There was no need to start commenting from the very beginning with nothing but assumptions about me and aggression.
Wouldn't this be accurate as per your logic?
2. Which made me wonder....why, when every other respondent seems to be fine with the general ideas mentioned in the OP, you took it so personally and started raging right on a forum thread. It makes sense to me now, since you actually had done some of the things I had mentioned in the OP that I thought were wrong with the custom rom scene (like abandoning projects after donations and commitments etc.,... then making unhelpful aggressive posts and name calling for no reason...exactly my points mentioned in the OP). This obviously is just a theory that I have.
3. Commenting on something that one feels can be improved, is not called whining.
There is a reason why Franco (the kernel dev) called the RN3 community on XDA 'cancer'. I understand fully why.
4. If it helps you sleep better...sure, mate, I don't know how to even boot to recovery. In fact, I just learnt how to tie my shoelaces this morning. It's a miracle! We done now?? :good:
I think the thread here is at risk of taking a turn which it was meant to avoid. Perhaps, the next comments by other people can be on a constructive note. It is my sincere hope that at least some ideas can come, which can make this ecosystem more friendly, more supportive, with a focus on quality checks over the diversity of abandoned custom rom projects.
I also hope that someone can shed more light on this "Official/Unofficial" tags that I mentioned in the OP. Like, how can we make that Official tag more meaningful?
Lineage OS seems to be coming up with something along the lines of minimum set of quality requirements for it to be called Official. Perhaps something like that which is actually tangibly enforceable would be something custom rom users could benefit by.
I kind of agree with OP but of course It's not really a problem with custom ROMs but instead a problem with how messy this forum is and the search function is.. I'm sorry to say almost useless, that results in many questions asked over and over again. And most of the time questions seem to be ignored (even when they are new) but yeah custom ROMs can be amazing and I am thankful for all guys doing work on android but be prepared to be alone with your questions and bugs.. btw, I have had contact with Xiaomi regarding bugs in their ROMs and they ignore just as much I learned how to fix them myself...
vypers said:
1. Let's try your own logic of "nobody is forcing you to use custom roms etc etc." I posted something. I didn't ask you personally to read it or comment on it. If you didn't like what you were reading, then you could have have stopped after the first paragraph and left the page. There was no need to start commenting from the very beginning with nothing but assumptions about me and aggression.
Wouldn't this be accurate as per your logic?
2. Which made me wonder....why, when every other respondent seems to be fine with the general ideas mentioned in the OP, you took it so personally and started raging right on a forum thread. It makes sense to me now, since you actually had done some of the things I had mentioned in the OP that I thought were wrong with the custom rom scene (like abandoning projects after donations and commitments etc.,... then making unhelpful aggressive posts and name calling for no reason...exactly my points mentioned in the OP). This obviously is just a theory that I have.
3. Commenting on something that one feels can be improved, is not called whining.
There is a reason why Franco (the kernel dev) called the RN3 community on XDA 'cancer'. I understand fully why.
4. If it helps you sleep better...sure, mate, I don't know how to even boot to recovery. In fact, I just learnt how to tie my shoelaces this morning. It's a miracle! We done now?? :good:
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Click to collapse
Just pathetic. Your not worth wasting my time ?
---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------
And also stop stalking you creep.
karthikkarthik said:
Just pathetic. Your not worth wasting my time
---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------
And also stop stalking you creep.
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Click to collapse
1. Please then don't waste your time, and leave this thread alone. (Your own logic of ..don't like custom roms, then leave).
2. From the very beginning, you have done nothing but name calling and assuming things. You continue to do so, proving my points further and further.
Didn't you say I am a "noob". And aren't noobs told to "use the search function" before posting things?? How is then using the search function to find publicly available things creepy??
Every single inconsequential point you have made, since you started raging against me from the first post onwards, for no reason whatsoever, has been proved hypocritical. I think it is only fair that we stop this altercation now. It is leading nowhere.
Good day!
tangoviking said:
I kind of agree with OP but of course It's not really a problem with custom ROMs but instead a problem with how messy this forum is and the search function is.. I'm sorry to say almost useless, that results in many questions asked over and over again. And most of the time questions seem to be ignored (even when they are new) but yeah custom ROMs can be amazing and I am thankful for all guys doing work on android but be prepared to be alone with your questions and bugs.. btw, I have had contact with Xiaomi regarding bugs in their ROMs and they ignore just as much I learned how to fix them myself...
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Yes thank you. People are asked to use search function quite rudely all the time. And I agree, for things like SOT, VoLTE etc etc it's easy to go back a few pages and find the answer. But for more complex queries, although something may have been answered before, the XDA search is inadequate. Google site search is better.
And just to clarify, in case it seems that way, I am in no way saying that developers work less, or that I don't appreciate their efforts. In fact, I am taking my cue from some of the highly regarded devs like xyyx, Franco etc, to suggest that what they do should be done by more devs...like communication, accountability, not vanishing without a word, consistent support, thereby instilling confidence in their users.