Software or Hardware Problems - Droid X General

I am running a Droid X that is just over a year old and the OS is the stock OTA Gingerbread. The phone is not rooted. Recently I have had problems with the phone and I am trying to figure out if the hardware is failing or if it is a software issue.
The phone would frequently restart when I selected it to power down. More seriously, I carry the phone in a belt side case with a velcro flap and I would frequently discover that it had crashed, so I would not be getting calls that came in, requiring a battery pull to restart it. Thinking it might be an overloaded memory problem, I removed a number of apps that sat in memory so that there was plenty of memory available. That didn't resolve the problems so I did a factory reset and, so far, the phone seems OK.
Do Android phones just develop these problems, requiring factory resets from time to time, or could something else be going on? Thanks in advance for the help.

Unfortunately, I think badly written applications probably have a major impact on Android and it's ability to stay stable.
I wouldn't blame Android itself...but the developers of said applications.

Been using the Vzw firmware for quite sometime now from froyo, leaked gb builds to the official gb builds. poorly written apps for GB are the main cause of crashes, fc, and random reboots.
Currently running Vzw signed 4.5.605 OTA - i rooted, deodexed, and debloated. I have had no issues.
You have a rogue app or two causing the issue. Find which one it is and remove it.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I would try uninstalling a few apps, or just go ahead and do a factory reset (wipe data).
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Related

Original VZW Galaxy Tab 7", force closes.

Our G tab has been with us for about 6 months and was great. It was all stock, not rooted, and worked fine.
Suddenly, after doing the 2.3 OTA it started to force close any and everything and very often. I did a hard reset, thinking there was a corruption and maybe that would help. Reloaded some of the applications and then it started to force close again.
So, i thought I could root it and install the Galaxy Cubed 3 Rom, and i did.
I'm back at the same problem, force closes constantly on many apps, often apps that your not actively using. Facebook is un useable, Google maps that is never really used keeps coming up as force close, and just all sorts of random programs keep popping up as force close.
Can this be a hardware related issue? I'm not sure what to try from this point.
Help!
Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt 4G using Tapatalk.
If you are having the same issue across multiple ROMs, it's probably hardware.
It's still in warranty, put the stock ROM on it and have it exchanged.
When you call for support, just yes them and pretend to do what they say.
D
I reloaded the cubed Rom last night and it than great for the hour or so while setting it up. Played on FB for a bit. Today it was with my wife and she was excited that it was doing good, but in the last 5 minutes it force closed on one thing 3 times:
Android.process.acore
So, for now it is not closing all kinds of random items, just android. Can you think of why this would be force closing?
Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt 4G using Tapatalk.
I would still suggest getting it repaired/replaced on warranty. Acore is a very important part of Android and shouldnt be getting force closes let alone regular ones.
Yes, last night while I was using it, acore would FC market back to back, as in about 5 seconds between. I would power off, restart, and in 10 minutes it would come back.
HTC Thunderbolt 4G using Tapatalk.
Glad there is here!
I am in the same boat with both my wife's 7" VZW tab and my own. We both took the OTA 2.3.5 update and within hours started to experience FC errors. My wife's tab is stock (she has never let me mess with it ) Mine was rooted but otherwise stock at the time of the OTA. Her's has continued to have random FC. I have flashed back to stock 2.2 with ODIN and re-taken the OTA 2.3.5 only to have the same FC start up again after a few hours. I have also tried just about every other ROM on this board trying to come up with something that would work with no luck. I am beginning to think that contacting Samsung for both of our tabs is a good idea. Anyone else find anything that works?
I just posted (on xda) the many fixes for this issue that i found online. I have the Sprint Samsung Tab, just started on its own. The most popular answer that i found, but didnt work for me, is clearing your contacts cache. Many members from various forums suspect it has something to do with contacts, sync and facebook. So clear your cache.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using xda premium
Just to update on my tablet... I got a warranty reticent replacement from VZW and it immediately vegan to also FC on us. I called vzw and the level 2 tech asked me to remove the memory card and do a complete wipe. he said that there is no way that 2 tablets are doing the same thing with the force closes, and he thinks that I carried some corruption over from within the SD card.
I removed the card, went to recovery and wiped, rebooted and have been running it with no memory card for 3 days. I'm still force closing, but not nearly as much.
Facebook is currently the midst constant of the force closes. Often, she goes to open FB and it never actually opens, it starts to open and then force closes.
Android Acorn is not coming up as a force close since this non SD card wipe.
Gmail is still force closing often, but not near as often as FB.
She will be playing her word games and it still well pop up the various force close errors on gmail and FB repeatedly even though she is not actively in those programs.
My wife wants to beat me about the neck and face area with her tablet at this point. She wants to give up on it and go get a nexus, but we can't sale a Galaxy Tab that is acting like this. Im considering buying out her $230 ETF and closing that line, then reopen it to get her the nexus. What is a husband to do?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
dsb9938 said:
If you are having the same issue across multiple ROMs, it's probably hardware.
It's still in warranty, put the stock ROM on it and have it exchanged.
When you call for support, just yes them and pretend to do what they say.
D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were can I get a stock rom
larry0071 said:
Just to update on my tablet... I got a warranty reticent replacement from VZW and it immediately vegan to also FC on us. I called vzw and the level 2 tech asked me to remove the memory card and do a complete wipe. he said that there is no way that 2 tablets are doing the same thing with the force closes, and he thinks that I carried some corruption over from within the SD card.
I removed the card, went to recovery and wiped, rebooted and have been running it with no memory card for 3 days. I'm still force closing, but not nearly as much.
Facebook is currently the midst constant of the force closes. Often, she goes to open FB and it never actually opens, it starts to open and then force closes.
Android Acorn is not coming up as a force close since this non SD card wipe.
Gmail is still force closing often, but not near as often as FB.
She will be playing her word games and it still well pop up the various force close errors on gmail and FB repeatedly even though she is not actively in those programs.
My wife wants to beat me about the neck and face area with her tablet at this point. She wants to give up on it and go get a nexus, but we can't sale a Galaxy Tab that is acting like this. Im considering buying out her $230 ETF and closing that line, then reopen it to get her the nexus. What is a husband to do?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man just go to manage apps and clear cache on facebook, gmail and a few other programs and your problems should go away ok.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using XDA App
eym said:
Were can I get a stock rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
I have found the stock 2.2 ROM but was hoping to find the 2.3.5 ROM and cannot. Anyone know where to find it?
Stock,.non root.
d01.megashares.com
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Did you do a factory reset before upgrading to ICS?

When I see all these posts about problems, I honestly can not relate at all because my TF101 with ICS literally has no problems at all. I've downloaded about 30 apps so far.
Other people who say they have no problems also usually mention that they did a factory reset before upgrading to ICS.
Just a coincidence?
I did and haven't had as many issues as others....some tho - tearing when expanding the recent app list, some random app crashes that I'm blaming on the apps....I did have a reboot cycle yesterday after waking up on battery from the dock...a cold boot remedied that.....other than that it's been a good update....
mines running smooooth as well, I did a full wipe so doing a factory rest didnt make sense to me. I'm running AR HD..
No factory reset for me and I'm good so far.. well I just got it back from Asus, I think they might have done one lol
sonspot said:
mines running smooooth as well, I did a full wipe so doing a factory rest didnt make sense to me. I'm running AR HD..
No factory reset for me and I'm good so far.. well I just got it back from Asus, I think they might have done one lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
full wipe does what factory reset does plus more.... so you did do factory reset. Can't believe you are taking it that literally.
horndroid said:
Did you do a factory reset before upgrading to ICS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. And I upgraded directly from a custom ROM.
100+ apps installed before the upgrade and running great afterwards: no random reboots, battery draining or app crashing. The only issue I have is with Chrome occasionally locking up. However I attribute that to its BETA status.
horndroid said:
Just a coincidence?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps ... perhaps not. A problem-free ICS upgrade, however, is not the sole provenance of those who factory reset/full wipe.
--L.
I did a full wipe when updating to ICS. Was fine for the first few days and now I have reboots/shutdowns maybe once a day. I had battery drain once as well. Its actually been pretty good other than that but I have kept it pretty standard with only a few apps as I am waiting for some better ROMS to come out with fixes.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
I did not wipe or factory reset. Have had one LOD 3 hours into sleep mode, one boot loop when I pulled out the SD card and one spontaneous reboot soon after coming out of sleep mode and rotating from landscape to portrait. Have had various Google app issues that are working themselves out.
I was prepared to wipe after I took the OTA, but haven't because I have had zero issues. I use my tf101 everyday, and it hasn't locked up or randomly rebooted once. I have about 60 apps installed.
Nope. I just hit update.
I've had the weird shutdown during sleep only once since first day update was available for USA.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
I only had an error that Android media closed out something like that for the first few days after update.
Clearing caches in my music apps seemed to work at first. Now that is back and my tf had been shutting down while in sleep. Just put it down to sleep for about 20 mins came back to Android logo on the screen with the circle froze.
It seems like this is getting worse for mine. tried everything but a wipe. Stock has not been rooted.
have always been on stock since the beginning. Never had any major issues. Was considering rooting to get cornerstone when it is stable.
Until than what other options can fix the reboots.
For some reason on honeycomb downloading something or the honeycomb status bar would always flash and mess up. I downloaded lots of stuff and tweaked it so that might be why. I wiped after coming from revolver and went to stock ICS. When it updated it was crazy slow and laggy. After every app was restored from the market I reset it and it FLEW. It just flies in terms of speed.
When I did my titanium restore I restored EVERYTHING. Not just apps but system data as well. When I did that I noticed it was slower and laggy and that notifications and download gitch was present.
I did factory reset again and only restored the app data this time and it's perfect now. No more lag or anything. Titanium back ups are fine and everything but if you were currently having lag or weird problems restoring the system settings doesn't help. I did not need them anyways. I love ICS. I really love how we get the status/notification bar that the prime has. Also the sony tablet and other tablets now have the little box markers at the top which let you know what page you are on. I'm glad we get that now as part of ICS too.
Factory reset definitely helps. Also I got to see that cool droid restoration image when it was resetting everything. I have never seen that before and it looked awesome.
no factory reset, Everything working good
This thread is complete nonsense, and to prove it, I have two TF101 tablets here. One was wiped before *and* after the ICS update, and had almost nothing reinstalled on it. The other was not wiped before *or* after. There are pretty-much no programs installed in common on both. Both are experiencing random, spontaneous reboots. Both are experiencing lockups. I've yet to see a boot loop on the one that wasn't wiped, but that's just chance -- I'm quite certain if I left it long enough, it would boot loop too, just like the one that was wiped.
horndroid loves to try and suggest this is somehow a user problem, but it's not. It's a fundamental problem of the stock Asus ICS ROM.
My result;
Normal upgrade from HC to ICS = strange behauvor and reboots.
Factory reset and upgrade to ICS = works like a dream, no big complains...
After ICS I have notice that some times ( one or maybe two times a day) screen is flash /flickering - but only for a micro second. Statusbar sometimes flickering when open, but not a big deal...
I have about 200 apps installede, many from 2 parts Market ( read Aptoide)
---------- Post added at 08:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 AM ----------
My result;
Normal upgrade from HC to ICS = strange behauvor and reboot.
Factory reset and upgrade to ICS = works like a dream!
After ICS I have notice that some times ( one or maybe two times a day) screen is flash /flickering for a micro second. Have you observed this?
knoxploration said:
This thread is complete nonsense, and to prove it, I have two TF101 tablets here. One was wiped before *and* after the ICS update, and had almost nothing reinstalled on it. The other was not wiped before *or* after. There are pretty-much no programs installed in common on both. Both are experiencing random, spontaneous reboots. Both are experiencing lockups. I've yet to see a boot loop on the one that wasn't wiped, but that's just chance -- I'm quite certain if I left it long enough, it would boot loop too, just like the one that was wiped.
horndroid loves to try and suggest this is somehow a user problem, but it's not. It's a fundamental problem of the stock Asus ICS ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea it's definitely something that will be patched by Asus. I have the random reboots and the flickering screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
I had a small problem when I updated my asus tf. Sometimes. when I pressed the home button, all the icons disappeard and I couldn´t do almost nothing with the launcher.
Then I decided to do a factory reset and now all is going well on my transformer
knoxploration said:
horndroid loves to try and suggest this is somehow a user problem, but it's not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. It is hard not to notice this in about everyone of his replies. I am glad his works, but a growing majority of people it does not.
So i hope this anticipated fix which ASUS is rolling out NW fixes the probs-- Hum!! I seem to recall being called out as spreading rumors in another thread about the ASUS fix. - Well like i said the fix is on its way.
No wipe from rooted stock ... the odd second of screen flicker when running onskreen but nothing to cry about. All good really
My EEE Pad was running like **** (i.e. sleep of death, rapid drain, huge lag, random reboot) I have upgraded from stock 3.2 without performing factory reset.
I tried cold boot and that did not help anything.
So I took the plunge and did full wipe + cold boot. So far have not had a single issue. Just FYI.
Mine actually appears to be getting worse and worse, quickly. The stock apps are going o pieces. Google Maps repeatably crashes if I zoom in beyond a certain level, or if I enable the satellite view layer. Gmail is near-unusable -- email counts are frequently incorrect, or are correct but new emails that are visible through a web browser don't show up when you reload in the app, the app repeatably crashes when I click on certain email threads to view them, and randomly crashes at other times, sometimes within seconds of opening the app in the first place. Google Reader likewise often locks up, doesn't mark posts as read when you click on them, doesn't reload posts correctly, etc.
It's *only* the Google apps that are misbehaving; well, other than the OS itself regularly, randomly rebooting, freezing, or getting stuck in boot loops, this is.
And this is all on a stock, unrooted TF101 that has relatively few apps installed, and was wiped both before and after the ICS update.
Looks like when this new patch arrives, I'll be wiping and starting from scratch yet again, in the hopes of resolving this mess.

Strange "black" Reboots

Hi!
I'm suffering from reboots on my Note (also on my S2...). I call them "black" reboots because the screen becomes black, there's no start-up animation , I only hear the sound, and the home screen don't comes up, or it do it after a long delay. So, the screen is mostly black. Until 2-3 minutes pass, and reboot again.
-Sometimes occurs simply starting up the phone in the morning. I'm advised of a slow launcher load (Go Launcher, but it can occurs on TW).
If I go to System Monitor (System Panel app), I see the 2 cores working hard, toghether or alternating. The "System" app goes mad. The battery drain becomes quick, and the phone back around the camera begins to warming...
After 2-3 minutes with this behaviour, the "black" reboot comes up. Often, after rebooting, the message "Unable to run System process"- Force Close-Wait (or so) appears in the black...etc
If I force shut-off, then I wait and then shut-on again, all things seem normal, until...reboot
-Factory reset (through Recovery, of course) seems arrange all things, until I load again the apps. I've unistalled all "tweaking" apps for overclocking, Ram managing, etc. I only have Root explorer and Speed Boost as Root operating things...
- My Rom is an odex Pre-rooted XXLC1, Modem XXLB2, but the multiCSC is not from it.
How the phone can become so unstable with only the half memory app capacity occuped? (800 Mb or so of 2GB)?
And how can it often occurs on updating apps from damned Google Play Store?
Is worth to flash another Rom (not ICS...), or re-flash same with its CSC included?
Sorry if I've been too long. In my searchs I only see things about bricks or another type of reboots.
Thanks for read me!
i get these once every two weeks or so.
I also get these type of reboots, I get them on RocketROM and on previous roms I've had installed the only way I've found to get out of them is to boot into recovery and wipe the caches. Before I was rooted I removed some of the apps I'd moved to the SD Card and that sometimes stopped the boot loop. I now only update apps one by one someone suggested it was to do with the amount of apps moved to the sd card and the multiple updating of them. I'm still not sure of the cause I know its the only flaw on my Note that I'm fed up with.
Im running stock ics rom straight from samsung only with root and getting the same behaviour as yourself. About 2 to 3 times a week...
Sent from my GT-N7000
Ive posted a poll as i also experience this issue. Can you vote on the poll here please with how many reboots you are getting etc - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1706343
tallen3 said:
I also get these type of reboots, I get them on RocketROM and on previous roms I've had installed the only way I've found to get out of them is to boot into recovery and wipe the caches. Before I was rooted I removed some of the apps I'd moved to the SD Card and that sometimes stopped the boot loop. I now only update apps one by one someone suggested it was to do with the amount of apps moved to the sd card and the multiple updating of them. I'm still not sure of the cause I know its the only flaw on my Note that I'm fed up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gnikolakis said:
Im running stock ics rom straight from samsung only with root and getting the same behaviour as yourself. About 2 to 3 times a week...
Sent from my GT-N7000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guys, i don't know if I'm going to cry of pain or to laugh of huge joy, after seeing this is almost ..."normal"
We have a beautiful 500€ plastic and metal block which is unable to perform the half of things it's supposed to do! And we don't know exactly why...
Sure I do wipes, but most of times this fixes nothing, and the reboot returns.
If I re-install with Titanium, I am very careful unsellecting into the batch which things can cause problems, installing only a few apps.
After some days, I go on installing manually some others.
The Play updates are critical, as I see... Why? How it's possible that this "beasts" with so much RAM and so much App Memory (2 GB on S2 and Note!) fail down handling its management, with their super 2 core CPU's?
It's too serious. How we can live with a 500€ phone rebooting bad 2 times a week?
Can you imagine that on your computer, forcing you to re-install OS and apps once or twice a week? It's crazy. Is Android going crazy?
Maybe Samsung don't like Root users? Have HTC same problem?
There's someone with a non rooted phone with same problem?
Are you guys running stock? Had custom rom installed or still have?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
baz77 said:
Are you guys running stock? Had custom rom installed or still have?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have this Rom, based on strict stock, but rooted: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=24690725&postcount=154
Mine is the XXLC1
No tweaks, no overclocking, no CWM...
I had the same problem when my GN was on rooted LC1. I disappeared after I made a factory reset and let my apps reinstall by Play Store.
Yes me too got out of this strange reboot by a factory reset today morning.
Something is messed up .....
Very difficult to find that something ...
better idea would be a factory reset .....
I think the problem is with the Stock Samsung Rom, it doesnt happen in CM9 Roms. I had this problems wen on ROcket rom, but vanished when on Asylum Rom.
go wild...
"I had the same problem when my GN was on rooted LC1. It disappeared after I made a factory reset and let my apps reinstall by Play Store"
Thanks, milesabords, I'll try that the...(glappps) next time.
.
prabhu1980 said:
Yes me too got out of this strange reboot by a factory reset today morning.
Something is messed up .....
Very difficult to find that something ...
better idea would be a factory reset .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yesss, very difficult. I'm not on advanced technical stuff, but my intuition says that is something deep inside the Rom, something that is related to CPU-Memory management.
By the way, do you have/had many apps (250+)? Have you made recently massive update and/or installing apps, or massive "App to SD" moves?
bhasg1007 said:
I think the problem is with the Stock Samsung Rom, it doesnt happen in CM9 Roms. I had this problems wen on ROcket rom, but vanished when on Asylum Rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are pushing me a little step more to the wild side of Android.... Here I'll go!
It seems to me that the Note is a strangely different phone of, say, S2. Some apparently "simple" apps that I carry on from 2 years ago don't run right.
And the little lags that sometimes appear on touching icons, never, never appear on the fast S2.
Lol be carefully factory on ICS resetting...
Try and official rom, haven't seen it myself
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
baz77 said:
Lol be carefully factory on ICS resetting...
Try and official rom, haven't seen it myself
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry, baz77, I don't touch ICS by now even with gloves & calipers...

Freeze on charge

I recently rooted and unlocked the bootloader on my Razr M and installed a nightly build of CyanogenMod (I like to live on the edge, I guess.) The first week or so with it was going great, no issues as far as I could tell.
Then I installed a social application that requires GPS location. I noticed that the first time after enabling this the phone would freeze when plugged in to charge. It would freeze to the point where hitting the wake up button wouldn't even activate the screen. Not always, but it has happened on several occasions. So now whenever I charge it (daily), I have to force reboot (hold down Up, Down, Power in that order.) Sometimes it'll even go through the process of "Optimizing Apps" as if they were all just installed.
Firstly, has anyone else experienced this? And if so, is there an "easy" workaround? I can't quite pinpoint how to reproduce the bug, though I've got 3 different Cleaning applications installed that are used daily. That in mind, it's unlikely this is a memory leak bug.
Second, if there's no "easy" workaround, when can one expect the next Stable build of CyanogenMod, if ever? Is it still in development? I see that the last Stable release for this phone was in 2013. It seems like I'll have to downgrade to an earlier build, but just want some input before I do it.
Thanks much in advance
Sounds like an issue with the app, not the ROM. You said yourself that the issues started AFTER installing that app. So, delete that app and report back. Also, a lot of those cleaner apps out there will just bork your phone if you're not careful.
Sent from my Nexus 5

New Nexus 6P User, problems out of the gate

So like the title says, I'm a new Nexus 6P user, and I had problems out of the gate.
I bought the device 2nd hand from a guy off craigslist, after my S6 edge started over heating after I had the screen replaced (don't buy Samsung "edge" phones, I know your careful, but on the off chance you drop it, your in a world of trouble).
I tested the phone, before I bought it, it appeared pretty much brand new, everything worked. When I got home, and hard reset it again for good measure all hell broke lose.
After a hard reset the phone wanted to update to build 19 something. After the update and a reboot, the phone app kept crashing before I could finish the setup process. The only thing I could do is factory reset it again. This appeared to clear up that problem. I did the near by device thing, and restored it from what Google could find out about my S6 edge. I wish it was more of a restore like what you can do in the iOS world, but it's better then what we had before so it's cool. I noticed that Chrome would crash everytime you tried to use it only in less I uninstalled the update. After I got the phone to the point where I wanted it, I thought I was free in the clear. When I started trying to use music apps, they all crash. Apple Music, Spotify, Soundcloud. Then I noticed YouTube also crashed the same way. When I tried to make a phone call, the phone app would crash too... So the phone was useless. I downloaded the SDK and the most current build which I think was 20 something. I followed a guide on here and formatted the phone reinstalling everything around build 20. The only thing this fixed was the phone issue.
I could now make phone calls without it crashing, but I was in the same boat with some applications working, and the same ones that didn't work not working. I flashed this phone 5, or 6 times, with the last time me formatting the userdata. I read that it wasn't a good idea because it could lock me to only 32GB ( I had a 64GB version), but after I did the flashing along with the usedata format, I still had 64GB of useable space, however I still had the same issue with the same types of applications crashing. I tried older builds, same issue (also the older builds all had the problem with the phone app crashing to the point that the phone wasn't usable).
I ended up sending the phone to the manufacturer, which appears to be in the same metroplex I live in. Hopefully they can find a hardware problem under warenty and fix it. I'm making this post to see if anyone else ran into similar issues, and if anyone knows if this is a hardware build issue, that was hopefully resolved.
I'm sorry to be so long winded...
Is the phone rooted and running a custom ROM?
Pappy35 said:
Is the phone rooted and running a custom ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything appeared to be stock, I don't know if it was rooted before, but when I was finished with it it was stock, I even locked the boot loader again (it was locked before I started flashing it)
vmiyoshi said:
Everything appeared to be stock, I don't know if it was rooted before, but when I was finished with it it was stock, I even locked the boot loader again (it was locked before I started flashing it)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much did you pay for it?
Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk
RidinNerdy said:
How much did you pay for it?
Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I paid 4 for it...

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