Database Users

T-Mobile in violation of...?

IRT this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Just wondering about T-Mobile's stance in essentially going against this by openly preventing customization of the OS, if this is enforceable and if they are in fact in violation of anything at this point. Thoughts?
Is this something that could lead to a class-action lawsuit..? Just curious. Looked and didn't see if there were any other threads related to this issue.. if there is, sorry for the redundancy.

Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.

Pickx said:
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
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Agreed.
Overall this isn't T-Mo's fault and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at them. HTC is the culprit. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.
My original understanding of this "agreement" was that Apple/Microsoft/Google couldn't sue the people that jailbroke/rooted/hacked the phones. Meaning, the jailbreakers of the iPhone could literally parade in front of Job's face that "Hey, I am the one who created the jailbreak software" and Apple couldn't sue them. I didn't think the "agreement" had anything to do with companies preventing such customizations. Maybe I just missed it.
I would much rather see these eFuse type chips and what not go away. I understand that root shouldn't be a push button option but a few hours of work by a smart dev should be enough of a deterrent from your avg joe to prevent random bricks.

I agree with what is above - this is in no way T-Mobile's fault. Also, this is a repost as well.

have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.

t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

t-mobile has responsibilities for any t-mobile branded phone
I have faith the G2 will be fully rooted, in spite of HTC and/or T-Mobile.....HTC really pulled a Motorola on this one (trying to lock the phone up)....I have no doubt that if t-mobile pushed HTC an easy root solution could easily be forthcoming, but T-mobile is just playing the 'not my fault' bs game....
I have to be content knowing the G2 is the best Android phone currently on the market, and that the dev community will defeat root (once radio/hboot is fully dealt with....)....at least VISIONARY temp root allows easy wireless tether and Titanium in the meantime....

Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

bigstunta101 said:
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
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Click to collapse
All they did was slap their name on something HTC created. You can't tell me you actually hold T-Mo responsible for something they didn't engineer? If they knew about it and didn't like it what do you think HTC would have done? Gone to ATT or switched it to a CDMA radio... oh wait they already basically have a copy cat coming out for Verizon. HTC can deal without selling through T-Mo. They'll survive.
nighthawk626 said:
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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You're common sense misleads you.
If you think T-Mo really has ANY influence over HTC you are mistaken. HTC sells through all 4 of the major carriers. They would just take their "G2" somewhere else. Blame the person that engineered the phone not the carrier to prints their name on it and throws a SIM card in it.
gaalaagaa said:
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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One problem...
There is a pesky thing called a warranty. If T-Mo/HTC provide a warranty, which they do, then they are obligated to fix/exchange a phone which cannot perform for its intended use. So if you bought a phone, rooted it, and royally F'ed it up because you are stupid and don't know what you are going you could then take it back to T-Mo and say it doesn't do what I bought it for and they would be obligated to fix it/provide a working one.
Consequently, to ensure as few people as possible root it they locked it down with this read-only NAND. They are protecting their arse.
Do I agree with it? No but I understand why they do what they do.
Warranty exchanges costs HTC money... so they want to ensure that as few warranty claims as possible are related to idiots doing something they shouldn't be or don't comprehend what they are doing.
It's a money game... nothing more nothing less.

@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good. Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones. Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it. It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible. Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company. Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for.Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine. We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.

When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.

First off, the article is trying to put blame on google... I just want to know how they cam e around to that. It feels like such a biased article. And how come there's no mention of Apple's practices? Or mentions of RIM? On top of that, it's already been said that this "rootkit" is bunked. Security measures are for the safety of the phone, usually. Why do they need to lock out the phone? You can cause a lot of havoc on the network with root access. (in fact, I kinda remember reading about an app that did just that when installed on rooted phones) It's in the interest of the customers to actually provide these security features. Just because we, as the technically inclined, get it, doesn't mean the average user should be punished.

nighthawk626 said:
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good.
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I work for a public accounting firm and I'm a CPA... want to try again?
nighthawk626 said:
Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones.
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They make their money providing service for the phones they sell...
nighthawk626 said:
Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it.
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This is just silly. T-Mo might exchange handsets but all the costs end up back on HTC depending on their agreement.
nighthawk626 said:
It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible.
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Again, do you think they had any part in the dev of the phone?
nighthawk626 said:
Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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Really? it's that simple?
So does Verizon, T-Mo, AT&T and Sprint take the fall for the Galaxy S debacle? They all have the same issue and all the customers are pissed off for the same reason so it is the carrier's fault? No, it is Samsung's fault. The fault lies with the person who made the phone and the software on the phone. Samsung should be held accountable for their failure of a phone... just like HTC should be held accountable if they are indeed in violation of this accord.
gaalaagaa said:
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
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I have 0 loyalties to T-Mo. This is actually the first T-Mo phone I've owned. In the past 3 years I've moved from VZW to ATT to Sprint to VZW to T-Mo. I don't give a crap about any carrier specifically. Moving on.
gaalaagaa said:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company.
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Click to collapse
Handle what exactly?
gaalaagaa said:
Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for. Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine.
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And what happens when someone roots their phone and takes it back and whines and biotches until they get a replacement? People abuse the warranty system which is why things are so tight these days. I don't disagree with your position, I wish I could basically "one click root" on day 0. It would be sweet but that's not the way the world is.
gaalaagaa said:
We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
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Only for sales purposes? There are 100 other reasons for control over the content besides "sales". What does "sales" even include?
asarousi said:
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
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Bull... I completely disagree with this. If their customizations caused problems then yes it is their fault but just because their put their name on it doesn't make it their fault. HTC designed, manufactured and marketed the phone... T-Mo printed their name on the glass and provided you with service. That's it.

LOL...another "class-action?" thread. Why not take the initiative and start the class action process if you are so curious about it? Speak to a lawyer, read up on the requirements for a class-action suit. I don't think anyone in a forum is gonna actually do that.

For all you people *****in about the locked nand Stop *****in about it yesh. Don't like it get another phone. There are plenty of other phones you can root and such.

Nobody is saying that tmobile made the phone but don't sit there and tell me that when they were picking this phone as part of their lineup, they didn't play with it or even look at it at all. Bottom line is they knew what was in the phone, I'm sure they were hoping the hinge issue wouldn't blow up like it did and also they knew about rooting and tethering some that's why I'm sure they continued to put it in their line up. It wasn't just tossed on their lap. They have phone testers and possibly hired rooters and devs to test how rootable this phone is. Either way they are accountable
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Bull crap. Ill buy the phone i want and root the phone i want because i want. Point blank

Nobody has forbidden anyone to root this phone. They made it hard to do and they put up a very clever stumbling block, but they didn't forbid it.
You can crack the phone open and look at every part of it, nobody will stop you, but they don't have to put a button on the side that makes it fall apart so that you can do it easily.
Similarly, if the community figures out the mechanism used to protect the ROM, then you can root it and install the software you want, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer or carrier are required to make it easy for you to do so.
The zdnet article cites the recent DMCA exclusion as meaning that we have the right to put whatever software we want on the phone. That exclusion provided no such right. It says that the federal courts will not prosecute us for defeating electronic protections in the phone - it doesn't make it illegal for the manufacturers to put those protections in the phone in the first place.
It's like a law limiting the penalties for jumping a fence - such a law wouldn't make fences themselves illegal. In fact, such a law would likely lead to fences that are harder to jump since the property owners could no longer rely on threat of prosecution to keep people from trying. Similarly, the DMCA exclusion is leading to electronic protections that are harder to crack because they are now the only line of defense.
Also, if they sold you a general computing device, but restricted the software you could put on it, then we would have a right to complain because a device isn't a very general computing device if it only runs canned software. Unfortunately, T-Mobile sold us a phone and the phone has to make calls primarily, and a smartphone further should provide some data access for the phone and, nowadays, the ability to install apps through a designed mechanism. There is nothing about the class of device that we were sold that implies the ability to run an arbitrary firmware or system software. They may not be able to stop us from doing that, but they don't have to allow it.
Consider that even in a general computing device, like a PC, there are parts that run software that you cannot modify. The firmware on DVD or Blu-Ray drives tends to be fairly locked down. Nobody cries fowl about that because the DVD/BR drive was sold for the purpose of reading (and sometimes writing) approved discs, not as a general computing device that will run whatever software you choose to load on it...

Gaalaagaa,
So with that logic, you can buy, let's say any car and then just decide that because "you want" or "you can" you'll remove the stock engine and drop in anything you want and then expect the manufacturer to cover it no matter what.
I'm all for root and using my G2 how I please, but that statement is moronic.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

Uh oh for all of us who root noooooooooooo

If true...
http://phandroid.com/2011/04/04/developer-troubled-times-ahead-for-anyone-who-roots/
Oh and where's the tags that the mods add in on My threads about my girl blowing everyone lol I'm still waiting haaaaa update there it is

Oh nooooooeeessss!!!

Sigh.
This really makes me want to just use a laptop for a phone now.
At least I can do what I want with my laptop's data connection.

WTF!??
10char

f***

OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.

this is me forgetting to thank you.

drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
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+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap

drmacinyasha said:
ok, this is the kinda stuff where either google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the fcc needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw verizon and every other carrier that does this.
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+2788786886

I agree this is total B.S.

lost_man10002 said:
+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
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No one should, the consumers run this together we can boycott any carrier who does this dictatorship bull****, I pledge I will not support any carrier who does this.
I'd rather take my evo and flash to cricket
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
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+1
This brought tears to my eyes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

Eff that. I will not buy a phone like that... If I have to go back to dumbphones... Then so be it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.

mkhopper said:
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
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Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts

It may be time to dust off my Razr.

Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.

iitreatedii said:
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
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I've heard the "rooted users are the extreme minority" comment countless times, and all logic says it really must be true.
However, when I go to the market, click apps, then all applications, then click top paid, 3 of the top 5 require root. As an honest question, are my market results tailored for my usage history or is that the same "top paid" list everyone sees? If it is indeed the same for everyone then it becomes much harder to quantify rooted users being in the minority.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

dirkyd3rk said:
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
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Click to collapse
Completely agree about the smartphone part but do not about the master key part, it would take years like 75 - 100 if the key is properly secure for many and I mean many super computers to solve that algorithm...look at the droids, the only reason on a side note the ps3 master key was released was because the people who secured it messed up in the formula, and that still took 5 years..

the consequence would never be the same.

this is just pathetic

http://http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/mob/2327488580.html
Hello my name is john.
I am able to modify your
HTC EVO 4g.
to have sprint hots spot for free for lifetime!! nice huh??
that means that your not paying an extra 30$ a month for mobile hot spot.
better yet, you will get full control over your phone!
and i mean if you thought android gave you a lot of customization you have not seen anything yet.
you dont know what your missing.
============Benefits & Features============
I can put phone back to factory settings or in other words unroot your phone if you needed to send it to sprint for service
Upgrade your phone to Ginerbread! (Froyo aka 2.2 is the current version for evo) Gingerbread aka 2.3.3 has not been officially released.
Custom ROMS enable you to get better battery life, and can make your experience better!
Full control over everything in your phone.
you can overclock your phone for better performance!
I will perform a full backup of your contacts so you wont lose anyone.
Free wireless hotspot & tethering to your pc
4g will work with my custom rom i install on your phone.
New animations and you can change your boot startup! yes its possible
Create a recovery just incase of system failure
Get rid off the sprint crap off your phone that slow down your phone!
Hey check this out. when you press the stand by button. there is a cool animation. this is one of my favorite things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wClA8sU5SH8
how cool is that? now whens the last time that you saw a cell phone do that!
For only 60 dollars, and the process takes only about 30 mins or less.
you can sit and watch while i do it.
Cash only accepted. Sorry
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lame

Yep. Old news. People do this. It's stupid. Whatever.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

Eh there's a lot of people that are completely clueless when it comes to this kind of stuff. Not only clueless, but too scared to even try it and don't want to take the time to learn it.
If you can make some change, take advantage of it. *shrug*

I don't think that this is ok at all... he is using free wifi tether to lure people in, people that shouldn't be messing with root and flashing. and wow 60$ glad to know this ass hole is making killer money off of other peoples time and work
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

stimpyshaun said:
I don't think that this is ok at all... he is using free wifi tether to lure people in, people that shouldn't be messing with root and flashing. and wow 60$ glad to know this ass hole is making killer money off of other peoples time and work
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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Haha!
Well, heh... I didn't say he wasn't an asshole. However... I don't care, though. You going to backtrace it and report him to teh cyber police? If some poor fool wants to pay this clown $60 -- well, that's their problem.

I like this part.
============Benefits & Features============
4g will work with my custom rom i install on your phone.
I bet he tells this to people that live in 3G areas. lol Now your 4Geez will work.

KB112 said:
I like this part.
============Benefits & Features============
4g will work with my custom rom i install on your phone.
I bet he tells this to people that live in 3G areas. lol Now your 4Geez will work.
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rofl...
"My custom ROM I install on your phone"
There's no way this guy developed a ROM. Someone needs to email him and ask him for more information.

beesneazy said:
Yep. Old news. People do this. It's stupid. Whatever.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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what? please explain how luring stupid people into paying for something that they can have free, is stupid? he's capitalizing off their laziness and ignorance. that's not stupid at all. how do you think most american businesses make their money? off of stupid/ignorant customers that dont know how to figure things out for themselves. it's no different than soliciting flyers for your lawn care business. yeah, they can mow their lawns themselves, and trim around the house. they can even do a little bit of research so they can figure out for themselves how to keep their lawns green year-round. but do they? hell no. you'd be stupid to not take advantage of that and make a quick buck.
KB112 said:
I like this part.
============Benefits & Features============
4g will work with my custom rom i install on your phone.
I bet he tells this to people that live in 3G areas. lol Now your 4Geez will work.
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Click to collapse
chicago is a 4g area...

rotfl... +1 you now have 4geez and the wifi's isn't that a deal

Ha ha I was making.money of jailbraking my friends iPhone and ipods for $10 bucks each but it all started for free but this one for 60$ mm I should start doing that Lmao jk
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

cnstarz said:
what? please explain how luring stupid people into paying for something that they can have free, is stupid? he's capitalizing off their laziness and ignorance. that's not stupid at all. how do you think most american businesses make their money? off of stupid/ignorant customers that dont know how to figure things out for themselves. it's no different than soliciting flyers for your lawn care business. yeah, they can mow their lawns themselves, and trim around the house. they can even do a little bit of research so they can figure out for themselves how to keep their lawns green year-round. but do they? hell no. you'd be stupid to not take advantage of that and make a quick buck.
chicago is a 4g area...
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How is not knowing that you are capable of rooting your phone make you "lazy...ignorant...stupid"
Most people simply do not know what rooting its and that is in know way there fault....
What this guy is doing is wrong and is unjustifiable.
$60 reallY? I bet he's as pathetic in real life as he is online.

starplaya93 said:
How is not knowing that you are capable of rooting your phone make you "lazy...ignorant...stupid"
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are you ignorant of the definition of "ignorant?" laziness, is a definite possibility because maybe they dont feel like doing all the research required to know how to root your phone, and learn all the lingo too. also, maybe people are scared to root their phones.
starplaya93 said:
Most people simply do not know what rooting its and that is in know way there fault....
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again, that is ignorance. in today's society, you cannot possibly tell me that "most" people are 100% unaware of what rooting is, or that it even exists. stop lying to yourself. even if someone that saw the post didn't know what it was, they could easily ask one of their nerd friends what is is. and if they don't, and they just decide to pay the dude $60 to root their phone -- guess what that makes them? stupid.
starplaya93 said:
What this guy is doing is wrong and is unjustifiable.
$60 reallY? I bet he's as pathetic in real life as he is online.
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not unjustifiable at all. as i mentioned earlier, it's no different than soliciting flyers for a lawn-care business, or any other business that capitalizes on skills/knowledge that is freely and widely available for anyone to obtain.

cnstarz said:
what? please explain how luring stupid people into paying for something that they can have free, is stupid? he's capitalizing off their laziness and ignorance. that's not stupid at all. how do you think most american businesses make their money? off of stupid/ignorant customers that dont know how to figure things out for themselves. it's no different than soliciting flyers for your o care business. yeah, they can mow their lawns themselves, and trim around the house. they can even do a little bit of research so they can figure out for themselves how to keep their lawns green year-round. but do they? hell no. you'd be stupid to not take advantage of that and make a quick buck.
chicago is a 4g area...
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Click to collapse
Everything about this is garbage ... do I care? No. Some folks definitely have a stronger opinion of this than others. He takes others work and 'passes it off' as his own. I don't deny that people can't be bothered to do this stuff and will pay others for the 'work' but the wording is always the funny part. Its like me posting a listing and utilizing everyone else's contributions.
Its stupid. It's ****ing stupid and you are ****ing stupid if you pay someone to do something like this. Its like charging people to upgrade their HDD in their PS3 because they're too dense to do it themselves. Its laughable. I say whatever because there isn't anything really 'wrong' with it as this **** happens all the time ... doesn't make it any less stupid / hilariously lame. I don't, personally, care. But its still stupid.
For all I know its someone here doing it .. hell, I could do this. Its sad and cheap.
End of story.
*for your argument with lawn care ... its like cutting the grass, trimming and tossing down weed killer but you act like you are the one working the magic. 'My lawn fertilizer and weed killer is unlike anything you've ever seen. But, if in the future, weeds pop up then I cannot he blamed.' Its the wording that irks me. And it is stupid. I don't deny there are stupid and worthless people out there ... but that doesn't change the fact that this is bull****. As said, some get more worked up over this than others ... I think it would he funny to meet up with this chode and call him out though. 'Personally the screen off animation I love' or whatever he says ... c'mon, grade A chode. He is using other people's work ..
.... it would ALMOST be like 'borrowing' your neighbor's lawnmower to mow someone elses grass and get paid for it. Following along with your stupid lawnmowing analogy. Its not the end of the world ... but it is stupid. No ifs, ands or butts. Again, I don't care. Whatever, as I said. Still, stupid. And, yes - it's a fact - the majority are morons. And at the rate of Android's growth ... potential gold mine here ... doesn't change the fact its 'semi-bull****.'
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've seen people on CL ASKING to pay for someone to root their phone. I always email them right away, tell them about the one click root method with the video walkthrough, and to save their money. Craigslist is full of ****heads and scammers, but this is a service that people want, and just don't know where to get good information. I always get thank you emails after for showing them XDA, and saving them money.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what the guy is doing. He's offering his services for a fee... Capitalism at its best!
You think how much time you've spent learning how to do this, familiarizing yourself with the process. Learning what to do when something goes wrong, etc, etc. If you're a youngin or unemployed, you have time to do this. Some people are not tech savvy, not computer literate, and think cmd is some highly technical code. These people will pay you for results.
If you know what you are doing and can deliver, there's nothing wrong with marketing your skills. There is information out there on how to change the head gasket for my car, or install a new clutch. I don't have the right tools or the inclination to get under the hood to do this myself. I take the car to a repair facility. Same concept here.
Or better yet, why go to a doctor... There are books you can read to research your illness and determine a course of therapy. The list goes on and on.

cnstarz said:
are you ignorant of the definition of "ignorant?" laziness, is a definite possibility because maybe they dont feel like doing all the research required to know how to root your phone, and learn all the lingo too. also, maybe people are scared to root their phones.
again, that is ignorance. in today's society, you cannot possibly tell me that "most" people are 100% unaware of what rooting is, or that it even exists. stop lying to yourself. even if someone that saw the post didn't know what it was, they could easily ask one of their nerd friends what is is. and if they don't, and they just decide to pay the dude $60 to root their phone -- guess what that makes them? stupid.
not unjustifiable at all. as i mentioned earlier, it's no different than soliciting flyers for a lawn-care business, or any other business that capitalizes on skills/knowledge that is freely and widely available for anyone to obtain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Am I ignorant? I don't know, i'll let god be the judge of that. I do know one thing though, i'd much rather be ignorant than a low life moron.
The majority of people who do not know how to root there phones are not ignorant or lazy simply because they "lack knowledge". First off, you can't be ignorant and lazy at the same time wise guy...think about it for a second (just don't think too hard and hurt yourself)
Secondly, how are people supposed to know that rooting even exists if no body tells them? Are they just supposed to assume that when they purchase their device that it has a stock rom on it and is un-rooted? I'm sorry, but very few people are as wise or psychic as you or they may not have nerd friends to explain to them what rooting is, therefore they can not possibly know to look on the internet for how to root there phone because they have no clue that such a process exist.
this does not make them ignorant because they aren't choosing to not know how to root, they simply haven't learned the facts (and yes, the majority of people have no clue what rooting is, so go pat yourself on the back for being superior to all of these ignorant lazy people)
Lastly, most of these people on craigslist doing this junk tend to focus their advertising on customizable roms, free tethering, overclockingg, etc etc. They rarely emphasize the fact that they are rooting the phone which is wrong.
Taking advantage of consumers lack of knowledge is not a good thing. Just because it's the status quo doesn't justify it...That is ignorant.

gpz1100 said:
If you know what you are doing and can deliver, there's nothing wrong with marketing your skills. There is information out there on how to change the head gasket for my car, or install a new clutch. I don't have the right tools or the inclination to get under the hood to do this myself. I take the car to a repair facility. Same concept here.
Or better yet, why go to a doctor... There are books you can read to research your illness and determine a course of therapy. The list goes on and on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not quite the same ... I mean, I get what you're saying ... but, skills? You aren't doing anything but taking someone else's work and using it for your financial betterment. Your argument would make more sense if you were repairing hardware or something ... acknowledgment isn't given for the people that have set up these simple and idiot proof root methods ... or the ROMs themselves. Sure, they might not say they 'made' the ROMs or rooting methods ... but they didn't say they didn't, either. And they don't have to do as much. I really don't care, and dont take my multiple posts as such, but its not really the same as all the things mentioned. Especially the doctor ****. LOL
Again, Im up late so that's the only reason I'm posting ... not hating, and if you are too dense or too busy to bother .... so be it. But I wont try to trivialize it with some bull**** analogies. I get people are lazy and stupid ... but don't throw the word 'skills' out here when my 13 year old cousin with some random palsy could pull this off. Its a cheap way to take advantage of people. Nothing more. Wording and acting like it's so much more than it is ... its a crock. Throughout time people have been doing this ... doesn't make it right or less garbage. This is a specific exploitation of someone else's work / services. This isn't changing some gasket in an automobile that fits across the board. This is a pretty specific exploitation.
Surgery is a skill and service ... coming over to make you a sandwich is about what this equates to. Don't mix 'skills' and 'near still born babies incapable of doing anything for themselves' as a service or a skill. More power to you if you can make money doing this ... but it is stupid. And sad.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

starplaya93 said:
Am I ignorant? I don't know, i'll let god be the judge of that. I do know one thing though, i'd much rather be ignorant than a low life moron.
The majority of people who do not know how to root there phones are not ignorant or lazy simply because they "lack knowledge". First off, you can't be ignorant and lazy at the same time wise guy...think about it for a second (just don't think too hard and hurt yourself)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can't be ignorant and lazy at the same time? what the **** are you even talking about??? mind = blown. please, please, please explain why it is absolutely, without a doubt, physically impossible to be lazy and ignorant at the same time.
starplaya93 said:
Secondly, how are people supposed to know that rooting even exists if no body tells them? Are they just supposed to assume that when they purchase their device that it has a stock rom on it and is un-rooted? I'm sorry, but very few people are as wise or psychic as you or they may not have nerd friends to explain to them what rooting is, therefore they can not possibly know to look on the internet for how to root there phone because they have no clue that such a process exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no doubt that are people out there that don't know about rooting. i'm not arguing that. you said that "most" people don't know it even exists. that's a made-up statistic that you concocted in your head, probably around the same time that you started believing that it's impossible to be ignorant and lazy.
regardless, how does one know that rooting exists without anybody telling them? this is probably going to sound like i'm dividing by zero, but a possible answer is... they discover it themselves! yes, people are capable of doing that! the human brain is indeed quite impressive and capable of independent thought and education. people don't have to be told by someone that something exists. it is possible for things to be discovered without being told by someone. (how do you think america, or any physical element was discovered?)
put yourself in your grandma's shoes. she doesn't know anything about this technology stuff, but she is learning because recently she discovered that are phones out there that can do many things. these phones can let you browse the internet, use your phone as a hotspot, will even let you video chat with your grandchildren, and they even have these touchscreens that allow you to just use your fingers instead of having to press a bunch of buttons! amazing! being the curious little grandma that she is, she goes home, opens up internet.com, and decides to type "evo smartphone" into her AskJeeves toolbar that she has installed. Her mind is opened to a plethora of information where she discovers what is possible with these phones. She does her research and decides that she wants one.
the moral of the story? she wants a ****ing smartphone because of its capabilities, and she didn't learn everything she knew about because of someone telling her about it -- she did her research. "most" people dont just walk into a sprint store and buy an android smartphone not knowing what it is capable of. these people have played with sprint's demo phones, they have played with their friends' phones, they have watched youtube videos of it in action. they know what the **** the phone is capable of. being the curious humans that we are, a majority of us know for a fact that the things we buy are not limited just to what the manufactures make us believe. so don't give me that bull**** statement that you have to be psychic or have nerd friends with gadget toys to figure things out for yourself.
starplaya93 said:
this does not make them ignorant because they aren't choosing to not know how to root, they simply haven't learned the facts (and yes, the majority of people have no clue what rooting is, so go pat yourself on the back for being superior to all of these ignorant lazy people)
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okay okay, i see what you're talking about now. you seem to think that being ignorant requires one to CHOOSE to not be informed or educated. very wrong. look it up.
starplaya93 said:
Lastly, most of these people on craigslist doing this junk tend to focus their advertising on customizable roms, free tethering, overclockingg, etc etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i concur.
starplaya93 said:
They rarely emphasize the fact that they are rooting the phone which is wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
explain further. what is it that you are saying is wrong: not telling people that you are rooting the phone; or the simple act of rooting the phone?
starplaya93 said:
Taking advantage of consumers lack of knowledge is not a good thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this sentence is very subjective. it's good for the person taking advantage of it because that means money in his pockets and some extra food on the table for his family. it's not good for the person being taken advantage of because he/she could be doing all this for free. being taken advantage of, and then realizing that you've been taken advantage of could be good for the customer because maybe that's what it takes to open his eyes and learn from his mistakes. in that case, it could be a good thing for both parties.
now, i dont necessarily agree with his tactics. i do feel that he should just be educating people; doing it for free or even much cheaper; or be more clear (and honest) when explaining what he is doing. but, that is not the case. he's simply trying to make a quick buck, and it might be working. that doesn't make him stupid or a moron. shady? sneaky? sure, but definitely not stupid.

Some people are mad they aren't doing this....
Sent from my spaceship!

DirtyShroomz said:
Some people are mad they aren't doing this....
Sent from my spaceship!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With all the money made from selling weed on the side ... who can be bothered with such trivial exploitation? You think THIS is easy money? Pssh.
And I never said HE was stupid ... but that this practice is stupid. And old. Its been discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. Its been happening for a while ... old news ... its so 'whatever.' *gimpy Hipster wrist*
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

HTC is listening

Thanks so much for providing feedback, we hear your concerns. Your satisfaction is a top priority for us and we're working hard to ensure you have great experiences with our phones. We're reviewing the issue and our policy around bootloaders and will provide more information soon. Thank you for your interest, support and willingness to share your feedback.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/htc/update-on-bootloaders/10150305151453084

Yeah just read that. Surprised they actually responded.
Sent from the Evo

so am i so am i

They should listen if they don't want their sales to plummet (im assuming the majority of consumers root their phone) Lol!

Well atleast they're listening. Probably wont accomplish anything but it doesn't hurt to voice your opinion. I know I wrote on the page 3 times
Sent from "The EVO" using XDA Premium VIA your moms house.

i bet the bean counters are looking over whether or not pissing off the dev community will cause excessive loss on the consumer end...
if it doesnt affect the bottom line, htc wont do a thing
^

they may be listening, but thats probably it. Its already too late to do anything for the EVO3D unless HTC happens to "accidently" release the decryption key.

Yea. Too little too late
sent from somewhere using something ...

captblaze said:
i bet the bean counters are looking over whether or not pissing off the dev community will cause excessive loss on the consumer end...
if it doesnt affect the bottom line, htc wont do a thing
^
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Click to collapse
I am a little curious how it would affect them. I have no doubt that most of us loyal Evo users have pushed our friends and family to purchase HTC phones. My wife wanted the Epic but I urged her to get the Evo Shift due to the difference in quality and history of software updates. I have friends who now have the Evo because of my input.
I have to imagine that we do have the power to make a difference in HTC's sales but is it enough to matter to them?

Sprint will shut this effort down.
Unless people at HTC are geniuses and can quickly figure out a way to disable or limit tethering w/o locking the phone.

nabbed said:
Sprint will shut this effort down.
Unless people at HTC are geniuses and can quickly figure out a way to disable or limit tethering w/o locking the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... we can tether with root. Please educate yourself.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

nabbed said:
Sprint will shut this effort down.
Unless people at HTC are geniuses and can quickly figure out a way to disable or limit tethering w/o locking the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sprint is the ONLY carrier that is doing ANYTHING to support openness so I'm really not sure what in the world you're talking about.
This signed bootloader BS is pure HTC.

Just saw this. If they listen, I might get the 3D, otherwise its back to an iPhone, because really, what's the different without root? Not much.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Sprint could care less whether you can hack tethering or not. They are pushing the air cards anyways. My account manager told me this today.

You guys act like HTC/Sprint need the dev community to stay afloat. Truth is we make up less than 1% of their sales and the only reason we are heard at all is because we put forth much more effort and have a lot more knowledge than the common user.
In all reality HTC can make a completely unlock-able/uncrackable boot loader and their sales will take absolutely no significant hit...It sucks, but it's reality and it's the way it is...
This is still very good news and i'm happy to hear that HTC is at least hearing us out, no matter how insignificant we may be...Or maybe they just realize that no matter what they do, our devs are better than theirs and can crack anything they try to lock in due time so the effort they put forth to lock us out isn't really worth it...

captblaze said:
i bet the bean counters are looking over whether or not pissing off the dev community will cause excessive loss on the consumer end...
if it doesnt affect the bottom line, htc wont do a thing
^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
most users dont root their phones.

mattykinsx said:
Sprint is the ONLY carrier that is doing ANYTHING to support openness so I'm really not sure what in the world you're talking about.
This signed bootloader BS is pure HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sprint does not condone rooting.

starplaya93 said:
You guys act like HTC/Sprint need the dev community to stay afloat. Truth is we make up less than 1% of their sales and the only reason we are heard at all is because we put forth much more effort and have a lot more knowledge than the common user.
In all reality HTC can make a completely unlock-able/uncrackable boot loader and their sales will take absolutely no significant hit...It sucks, but it's reality and it's the way it is...
This is still very good news and i'm happy to hear that HTC is at least hearing us out, no matter how insignificant we may be...Or maybe they just realize that no matter what they do, our devs are better than theirs and can crack anything they try to lock in due time so the effort they put forth to lock us out isn't really worth it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might as well expand your consumer base as much as you can. The other 99% who don't root their phones don't really care if the bootloader is locked or not. With an easily unlockable bootloader, that 1% that does root their phones can grow. Devs are smart, and HTC could take some hints from them.

they may change their bootloader policy in future phones, not the 3d which is about ready to ship.

Yeah, their response is stock customer service response..
of COURSE their listening. Of COURSE they're considering. Of COURSE they care.
I think, I KNOW... there is absolutely ZERO chance they will change their course of action publicly.
It might however increase the chance of some leak happening tho......pleeaase!

!!! Exemption Legalizing Rooting And Jailbreaking Will Expire SOON !!!

Exemption Legalizing Rooting And Jailbreaking Will Expire, Let’s Petition To Renew It!
Saw THIS article in the XDA portal. I thought it would be in everybody's best interest to check it out. Basically is that the exemption that allows us to legally Root, modify, Hack, or whatever ours phones is going to be Expire SOON. If we don't act it could quite possibly become illegal to Root your own phone. So guys I really think you should check the links out. I believe the deadline is Feb. 10th. Come on guys protect your rights.
Exemption Legalizing Rooting And Jailbreaking Will Expire, Let’s Petition To Renew It!
Submit a comment to the US Copyright Office
SIGN THE PETITION

If that kind of crap passes we all just need to boycott the big boys. That's just a bunch of bulls**t.

Like I've said before. If we don't stand up and be counted, they will slowly take all our rights.

If android is open source then we should be okay if the law passes? I can see it affecting apple which I don't care cause I will never own one of there products
Sent from my PG06100 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk

YoungCorruptionV2.0 said:
If android is open source then we should be okay if the law passes? I can see it affecting apple which I don't care cause I will never own one of there products
Sent from my PG06100 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android (A.O.S.P.) may be open source but sense, motoblur, touchwiz, and any other manufacturers ui are all closed source builds... If those companies want to be dicks they can say we are messing with copyrights...
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

This is why I hate the united states government I mean really we should stand against them, they don't own us or anything we buy, I hate the fact that the ONLY reason we have a "free country" is they can't touch amendment #2 and I think its about time we take our country back, the government does absolutely nothing but screw us....I could go on all day about that things I literally hate about our government and the funny thing is I can't think of one thing I appreciate from them...and im going to stop it at that....I hope one big ass mistake amaerica reads this too, he knows who he is
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Oh geez, first sopa and now this bs. Honestly I don't care anymore. People were unlocking all types of phones (not just smartphones) before all of this even became legal. There were various hacking sites and guides that never got shut down...people never got arrested ect. They can't stop people from doing whatever the f*** they want to their own phones plain and simple. They can try but I don't think they'll get too far especially now that it's already been exempt once.

sparksco said:
Oh geez, first sopa and now this bs. Honestly I don't care anymore. People were unlocking all types of phones (not just smartphones) before all of this even became legal. There were various hacking sites and guides that never got shut down...people never got arrested ect. They can't stop people from doing whatever the f*** they want to their own phones plain and simple. They can try but I don't think they'll get too far especially now that it's already been exempt once.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, if you didnt outright buy the device, you are "renting" it... I hate to say it but if you look at your T.O.S. it's in there... Kinda sucks, but... What sprint doesnt know, wont hurt sprint...
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

Yes but if you read the Bill Proposel in one of the links. They actually mean all phones. Which is kind of like telling you, that you can only paint the inside of your house White. Regardless if it's yours or not.

drob311 said:
Technically, if you didnt outright buy the device, you are "renting" it... I hate to say it but if you look at your T.O.S. it's in there... Kinda sucks, but... What sprint doesnt know, wont hurt sprint...
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I remember the G1 days when a lot of people weren't use to rooting phones and the methods were a lot more difficult such as flashing your eng hboot in a crapy recovery. The brick risk was a lot higher then it is now and easier for people to turn their phones into a paperweight lol. Now days it seems a lot easier to root and if you have some issues to just unroot everything back to stock and your still covered in your T.O.S.

I can still remember when the FCC would not allow retailers to sell phones. They could only be rented from the phone company, and were those clunky square units with the front number pad (or rotary in some cases). Things really have not changed.
PS Before making your jokes about how old I must be, this really was not that long ago (I am younger than 35).

cloverdale said:
I can still remember when the FCC would not allow retailers to sell phones. They could only be rented from the phone company, and were those clunky square units with the front number pad (or rotary in some cases). Things really have not changed.
PS Before making your jokes about how old I must be, this really was not that long ago (I am younger than 35).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im with ya... The nokia 910 was one of those old school phones, or what about the 6 inch thick moto flip phones (my very first cell phone ) I remember with the moto there wasn't even text messaging...
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

all of the current legislation surounding the tech industry is crap lately. at least SOPA is done with (for now)
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium

Well bottom line is we either speak, or get swept under the carpet.
TEAM MiK
Mik Roms Since 3/13/11