IRT this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Just wondering about T-Mobile's stance in essentially going against this by openly preventing customization of the OS, if this is enforceable and if they are in fact in violation of anything at this point. Thoughts?
Is this something that could lead to a class-action lawsuit..? Just curious. Looked and didn't see if there were any other threads related to this issue.. if there is, sorry for the redundancy.
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
Pickx said:
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
Overall this isn't T-Mo's fault and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at them. HTC is the culprit. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.
My original understanding of this "agreement" was that Apple/Microsoft/Google couldn't sue the people that jailbroke/rooted/hacked the phones. Meaning, the jailbreakers of the iPhone could literally parade in front of Job's face that "Hey, I am the one who created the jailbreak software" and Apple couldn't sue them. I didn't think the "agreement" had anything to do with companies preventing such customizations. Maybe I just missed it.
I would much rather see these eFuse type chips and what not go away. I understand that root shouldn't be a push button option but a few hours of work by a smart dev should be enough of a deterrent from your avg joe to prevent random bricks.
I agree with what is above - this is in no way T-Mobile's fault. Also, this is a repost as well.
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
t-mobile has responsibilities for any t-mobile branded phone
I have faith the G2 will be fully rooted, in spite of HTC and/or T-Mobile.....HTC really pulled a Motorola on this one (trying to lock the phone up)....I have no doubt that if t-mobile pushed HTC an easy root solution could easily be forthcoming, but T-mobile is just playing the 'not my fault' bs game....
I have to be content knowing the G2 is the best Android phone currently on the market, and that the dev community will defeat root (once radio/hboot is fully dealt with....)....at least VISIONARY temp root allows easy wireless tether and Titanium in the meantime....
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
bigstunta101 said:
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All they did was slap their name on something HTC created. You can't tell me you actually hold T-Mo responsible for something they didn't engineer? If they knew about it and didn't like it what do you think HTC would have done? Gone to ATT or switched it to a CDMA radio... oh wait they already basically have a copy cat coming out for Verizon. HTC can deal without selling through T-Mo. They'll survive.
nighthawk626 said:
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're common sense misleads you.
If you think T-Mo really has ANY influence over HTC you are mistaken. HTC sells through all 4 of the major carriers. They would just take their "G2" somewhere else. Blame the person that engineered the phone not the carrier to prints their name on it and throws a SIM card in it.
gaalaagaa said:
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One problem...
There is a pesky thing called a warranty. If T-Mo/HTC provide a warranty, which they do, then they are obligated to fix/exchange a phone which cannot perform for its intended use. So if you bought a phone, rooted it, and royally F'ed it up because you are stupid and don't know what you are going you could then take it back to T-Mo and say it doesn't do what I bought it for and they would be obligated to fix it/provide a working one.
Consequently, to ensure as few people as possible root it they locked it down with this read-only NAND. They are protecting their arse.
Do I agree with it? No but I understand why they do what they do.
Warranty exchanges costs HTC money... so they want to ensure that as few warranty claims as possible are related to idiots doing something they shouldn't be or don't comprehend what they are doing.
It's a money game... nothing more nothing less.
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good. Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones. Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it. It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible. Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company. Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for.Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine. We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
First off, the article is trying to put blame on google... I just want to know how they cam e around to that. It feels like such a biased article. And how come there's no mention of Apple's practices? Or mentions of RIM? On top of that, it's already been said that this "rootkit" is bunked. Security measures are for the safety of the phone, usually. Why do they need to lock out the phone? You can cause a lot of havoc on the network with root access. (in fact, I kinda remember reading about an app that did just that when installed on rooted phones) It's in the interest of the customers to actually provide these security features. Just because we, as the technically inclined, get it, doesn't mean the average user should be punished.
nighthawk626 said:
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work for a public accounting firm and I'm a CPA... want to try again?
nighthawk626 said:
Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They make their money providing service for the phones they sell...
nighthawk626 said:
Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just silly. T-Mo might exchange handsets but all the costs end up back on HTC depending on their agreement.
nighthawk626 said:
It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, do you think they had any part in the dev of the phone?
nighthawk626 said:
Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? it's that simple?
So does Verizon, T-Mo, AT&T and Sprint take the fall for the Galaxy S debacle? They all have the same issue and all the customers are pissed off for the same reason so it is the carrier's fault? No, it is Samsung's fault. The fault lies with the person who made the phone and the software on the phone. Samsung should be held accountable for their failure of a phone... just like HTC should be held accountable if they are indeed in violation of this accord.
gaalaagaa said:
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 0 loyalties to T-Mo. This is actually the first T-Mo phone I've owned. In the past 3 years I've moved from VZW to ATT to Sprint to VZW to T-Mo. I don't give a crap about any carrier specifically. Moving on.
gaalaagaa said:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Handle what exactly?
gaalaagaa said:
Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for. Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what happens when someone roots their phone and takes it back and whines and biotches until they get a replacement? People abuse the warranty system which is why things are so tight these days. I don't disagree with your position, I wish I could basically "one click root" on day 0. It would be sweet but that's not the way the world is.
gaalaagaa said:
We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only for sales purposes? There are 100 other reasons for control over the content besides "sales". What does "sales" even include?
asarousi said:
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
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Click to collapse
Bull... I completely disagree with this. If their customizations caused problems then yes it is their fault but just because their put their name on it doesn't make it their fault. HTC designed, manufactured and marketed the phone... T-Mo printed their name on the glass and provided you with service. That's it.
LOL...another "class-action?" thread. Why not take the initiative and start the class action process if you are so curious about it? Speak to a lawyer, read up on the requirements for a class-action suit. I don't think anyone in a forum is gonna actually do that.
For all you people *****in about the locked nand Stop *****in about it yesh. Don't like it get another phone. There are plenty of other phones you can root and such.
Nobody is saying that tmobile made the phone but don't sit there and tell me that when they were picking this phone as part of their lineup, they didn't play with it or even look at it at all. Bottom line is they knew what was in the phone, I'm sure they were hoping the hinge issue wouldn't blow up like it did and also they knew about rooting and tethering some that's why I'm sure they continued to put it in their line up. It wasn't just tossed on their lap. They have phone testers and possibly hired rooters and devs to test how rootable this phone is. Either way they are accountable
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Bull crap. Ill buy the phone i want and root the phone i want because i want. Point blank
Nobody has forbidden anyone to root this phone. They made it hard to do and they put up a very clever stumbling block, but they didn't forbid it.
You can crack the phone open and look at every part of it, nobody will stop you, but they don't have to put a button on the side that makes it fall apart so that you can do it easily.
Similarly, if the community figures out the mechanism used to protect the ROM, then you can root it and install the software you want, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer or carrier are required to make it easy for you to do so.
The zdnet article cites the recent DMCA exclusion as meaning that we have the right to put whatever software we want on the phone. That exclusion provided no such right. It says that the federal courts will not prosecute us for defeating electronic protections in the phone - it doesn't make it illegal for the manufacturers to put those protections in the phone in the first place.
It's like a law limiting the penalties for jumping a fence - such a law wouldn't make fences themselves illegal. In fact, such a law would likely lead to fences that are harder to jump since the property owners could no longer rely on threat of prosecution to keep people from trying. Similarly, the DMCA exclusion is leading to electronic protections that are harder to crack because they are now the only line of defense.
Also, if they sold you a general computing device, but restricted the software you could put on it, then we would have a right to complain because a device isn't a very general computing device if it only runs canned software. Unfortunately, T-Mobile sold us a phone and the phone has to make calls primarily, and a smartphone further should provide some data access for the phone and, nowadays, the ability to install apps through a designed mechanism. There is nothing about the class of device that we were sold that implies the ability to run an arbitrary firmware or system software. They may not be able to stop us from doing that, but they don't have to allow it.
Consider that even in a general computing device, like a PC, there are parts that run software that you cannot modify. The firmware on DVD or Blu-Ray drives tends to be fairly locked down. Nobody cries fowl about that because the DVD/BR drive was sold for the purpose of reading (and sometimes writing) approved discs, not as a general computing device that will run whatever software you choose to load on it...
Gaalaagaa,
So with that logic, you can buy, let's say any car and then just decide that because "you want" or "you can" you'll remove the stock engine and drop in anything you want and then expect the manufacturer to cover it no matter what.
I'm all for root and using my G2 how I please, but that statement is moronic.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Related
if your thinking of buying a droid x and rooting it then think again http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/14/droid-x-actually-self-destructs-if-you-try-to-mod-it/ . if you dont care to root it then disregard this. if you try to even root it you will brick it!?!?!? why would they do that????
If you'd rather not support your product if someone else meddles with it, that's totally fine. Void their warranties; don't kill your own product to spite them.
You are not inventors. You are profiteers afraid of people, at home, doing what you do better than you.
And maybe you should be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Mark Wilson [email protected]
They're using open source software and afraid of the open source community doing what they do better than they do it.
Shame on Moto, good thing I love Htc anyways.
I r n00b.
Sent from my (able to be rooted)Hero CDMA using XDA App
Just saw that on reddit. That's nasty..q
Wonder when HTC will try doing this. :-/
Kcarpenter said:
Wonder when HTC will try doing this. :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if HTC starts doing that, then you can bet Android be screwed over because no one is going to buy them anymore. So the companies that decide to do crap like this are just screwing themselves over.
Kcarpenter said:
Wonder when HTC will try doing this. :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same week I buy an iPhone.
illogic6 said:
The same week I buy an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's like trading one jail cell for another.
dam that rly sucks, but im sure they will figure out ways around it
subcypher said:
That's like trading one jail cell for another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is fairly easy to jailbreak an iphone these days... my dad jailbroke his 3gs a few days after he got it and he is the guy who's VCR always flashed 12:00...
It's all fear mongering. It's the same protection as Milestone devices and the Droid. All of them have the OMAP3 eFuse.
Look up Steven Bird's blog (I can't post links yet) he explains it. Said that it's more than likely not to brick the phone. He's got donations up and going now to try and get one to test it himself.
Yup, this FUD has been debunked. Enough with the eFuse DROID X Talk Already
The response from Motorola was that it wouldn't "brick" the phone, but if the efuse was triggered it would render the phone unusable until it was repaired with motorola software. Which pretty much means the folks here at XDA will likely find a way around the efuse without too much trouble
tatonka_hero said:
The response from Motorola was that it wouldn't "brick" the phone, but if the efuse was triggered it would render the phone unusable until it was repaired with motorola software. Which pretty much means the folks here at XDA will likely find a way around the efuse without too much trouble
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet someone will leak the "motorola software" just like the RUU's have been leaked from HTC.
mrinehart93 said:
I bet someone will leak the "motorola software" just like the RUU's have been leaked from HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or they could, I dunno, download it from Motorola's site. Really, all they're doing is a checksum and giving you the opportunity to flash an RUU if they don't match. No Moto repair required.
Wow Motorola, way to go... u just scared off about 3/4 of u'r customers right there. Talk about BS limiting a user on what he/she is able to load on to HIS/HER own phone. Ridiculous!
It's not FUD. It may not "brick" the phone, but it's another attempt to stop the end user, the person that legally purchased the phone, from tinkering with it. Just as the quote I posted above says, they're not inventors. They are profiteers afraid of people, at home, doing what they do better than them.
My friend and I had this conversation the other day. He stated that Sprint has a right to protect their network and any phone they sell you with a discount for buying a plan. He is correct, to a point. Sprint doesn't want us using our phones for more than they give us (despite claims of "unlimited" data) because they have to protect their profit margins. They also don't want us tinkering with our phones because we, tinkerers, could break them. Insurance doesn't cover "tinkering". Sprint is taking a huge up-front hit by selling us the phone as cheap as they do but they recoup that cost by locking us into 2-year contracts. They need to keep us in those contracts to turn a profit. So, I feel they have a right to protect that until the contract is up.
Or, on the other hand, those that purchase their phones outright, without contracts and without subsidies, should have the right to tinker all they like... including the consequences.
E-fuse, what?
I still don't believe it was FUD because of the reasons I mentioned above, but it was successfully bypassed.
EDIT: The e-fuse wasn't bypassed. They got root, which isn't watched by the e-fuse. Putting a new ROM on the phone would, though. Getting root is a start, though, and should allow them to figure out how the e-fuse works. Then I'm sure they can bypass it. It'll just take some more time.
Droid X Rooted
Like there was any doubt! Devs > Motorola
If true...
http://phandroid.com/2011/04/04/developer-troubled-times-ahead-for-anyone-who-roots/
Oh and where's the tags that the mods add in on My threads about my girl blowing everyone lol I'm still waiting haaaaa update there it is
Oh nooooooeeessss!!!
Sigh.
This really makes me want to just use a laptop for a phone now.
At least I can do what I want with my laptop's data connection.
WTF!??
10char
f***
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
this is me forgetting to thank you.
drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
drmacinyasha said:
ok, this is the kinda stuff where either google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the fcc needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw verizon and every other carrier that does this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+2788786886
I agree this is total B.S.
lost_man10002 said:
+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one should, the consumers run this together we can boycott any carrier who does this dictatorship bull****, I pledge I will not support any carrier who does this.
I'd rather take my evo and flash to cricket
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
This brought tears to my eyes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Eff that. I will not buy a phone like that... If I have to go back to dumbphones... Then so be it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
mkhopper said:
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
It may be time to dust off my Razr.
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
iitreatedii said:
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard the "rooted users are the extreme minority" comment countless times, and all logic says it really must be true.
However, when I go to the market, click apps, then all applications, then click top paid, 3 of the top 5 require root. As an honest question, are my market results tailored for my usage history or is that the same "top paid" list everyone sees? If it is indeed the same for everyone then it becomes much harder to quantify rooted users being in the minority.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
dirkyd3rk said:
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree about the smartphone part but do not about the master key part, it would take years like 75 - 100 if the key is properly secure for many and I mean many super computers to solve that algorithm...look at the droids, the only reason on a side note the ps3 master key was released was because the people who secured it messed up in the formula, and that still took 5 years..
the consequence would never be the same.
Please sign this petition to put a stop to htc and their locked bootloaders. Takes 5secs. Even if your not getting this phone you should still sign it, so this wont happen to fututure phones.
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
Already signed and added to sig, thanks.
Signed allredy. Hope in the future we have free Android.
thanks for this. signed up. they just lost a Sensation customer because of this.
Come on people. Hit this up
Bump again..
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That didn't even make sense. Dumbest thing I heard all day. Thanks for the laugh. Anyways back on topic, hit this up.
greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a way, it may be. If you think of it, MOST HTC phones come with locked bootloaders. If you have not seen already, please read:
http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...otloader-but-its-big-problem.html#post2725969
I signed the groubal anyway
Signed...................
e334 said:
In a way, it may be. If you think of it, MOST HTC phones come with locked bootloaders. If you have not seen already, please read:
http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...otloader-but-its-big-problem.html#post2725969
I signed the groubal anyway
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, its an interresting post. But this concerns mostly (if not only) us the customisers. But the avarage Joe (which is like 99,9% of the sold phones) is happy with the phone as it comes and he doesnt need open or unlocked bootloader or phone. The point is, the avarage Joe is save from bricking his phone and thats a good thing from Joes point of view and also from the phone manufacturers (they want to sell phones, not swap the damaged ones). Ofcourse i would like to get open bootloader or phone straight out of the box, but i fully understand why the companies do not want it.
greg17477 said:
Yes, its an interresting post. But this concerns mostly (if not only) us the customisers. But the avarage Joe (which is like 99,9% of the sold phones) is happy with the phone as it comes and he doesnt need open or unlocked bootloader or phone. The point is, the avarage Joe is save from bricking his phone and thats a good thing from Joes point of view and also from the phone manufacturers (they want to sell phones, not swap the damaged ones). Ofcourse i would like to get open bootloader or phone straight out of the box, but i fully understand why the companies do not want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bricking... that's one thing but you didn't mention the big picture.
Money
I love it, you love it, and HTC sure as hell does too. Nothing personal it's just business, business as usual... simple as that.
If it weren't for this fabulous forum I would of probably upgraded my phone twice by now if not at least once since owning the HD2, provided I had enough funds... All these "unauthorized" OS updates I'm getting has definitely been a factor for NOT upgrading my phone. That's profit loss for both HTC and the carriers that sell them. Then there's all these "unenlightened" ones who come to this forum and brick their phones because they've failed to properly follow directions. Then turn around and claim fraudulent warranty damage. I don't know how much net loss this actually costs but I'm pretty sure it's enough that it makes a difference. Either way, at the end of the day it's all about maximizing profits. This isn't a charity folks..... HTC has expensive mouths to feed.
do you really need 2 threads going? 1 in gneral and 1 in android?
presonally it doesnt bother me if they lock it or not, they are doing it for business reasons and as stated above money, i was going to reply to this yesterday but after typing out what i was going to put, most people would get pissy and *****y
calc said:
Bricking... that's one thing but you didn't mention the big picture.
Money
I love it, you love it, and HTC sure as hell does too. Nothing personal it's just business, business as usual... simple as that.
If it weren't for this fabulous forum I would of probably upgraded my phone twice by now if not at least once since owning the HD2, provided I had enough funds... All these "unauthorized" OS updates I'm getting has definitely been a factor for NOT upgrading my phone. That's profit loss for both HTC and the carriers that sell them. Then there's all these "unenlightened" ones who come to this forum and brick their phones because they've failed to properly follow directions. Then turn around and claim fraudulent warranty damage. I don't know how much net loss this actually costs but I'm pretty sure it's enough that it makes a difference. Either way, at the end of the day it's all about maximizing profits. This isn't a charity folks..... HTC has expensive mouths to feed.
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yeah i mentioned it (they want sell and not swap the damaged ones), but not as clearly as you did
"There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we've listened. Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience," Peter Chou, CEO of HTC
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https://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150307320018084
was just gonna post the same thing
greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
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Ha. You got anything else to say? Didnt think so
mattfmartin said:
Ha. You got anything else to say? Didnt think so
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Haha awesome. its amazing when the people speak and those in charge actually listen.
signed it!
Subject says it all... let me know what you think!
http://s4gru.spruz.com/pt/Will-it-s...ilbreak-or-MOD-your-personal-devices/blog.htm
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
The funny thing is that is Apple is the one crying about it. I don't think it will affect us since Google is open source. And with the nexus line these phones are considered" developer phones" so I don't think it will affect the Android community.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Screw apple. Now that steve jobs is gone, I hope they crumble as a company. He was the power source that brought them such big business and now they're crying about every little thing android does. Waaa waa cry us a river. Oh, and its illegal to do a lot of things. We'll keep doing them if it makes us feel good.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Well i dont think it gonna pass and if it does who is gonna stop me from rooting/hacking my own sh*t..
It's useless to try and legally ban people from customizing the tech they own. If governments/corporations try, they'll fail and only harm themselves.
That would have to reverse the supreme court ruling that once purchased we can do what we want with our device. This was a suit for the PS3. Sony still had the right to deny services but could do no legal action on modded PS3s. The same will stand for our phones. The worst that could happen is a clause is added to our contracts giving the carrier the right to refuse service to rooted devices.
I Hope your wrong about the phone service
Still, being able to deny service would suck considering the only reason why I rooted my device to begin with was for the WiFi Hack. However, if any one out there know answer me this. How would sprint or another service provider figure out that your phone is rooted? From a noobs point of view I see no way of them finding out anything unless they sell you a phone that's bugged. But if you think about it for you window 7 users out there, windows gives the option to install a bug that determines if your windows is genuine but does not come preinstalled.
I really don't think it will effect us I been hacking before the bill passed an I will b if I don't get exstented, nothing changed really I don't think. I'm more worried about sopa
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
Frostacious said:
Still, being able to deny service would suck considering the only reason why I rooted my device to begin with was for the WiFi Hack. However, if any one out there know answer me this. How would sprint or another service provider figure out that your phone is rooted? From a noobs point of view I see no way of them finding out anything unless they sell you a phone that's bugged. But if you think about it for you window 7 users out there, windows gives the option to install a bug that determines if your windows is genuine but does not come preinstalled.
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Google knows every app on your phone. If you have 1 app for rooted phones then you are probably rooted. Sprint can ping your phone and get the kernel, firmware and baseband you are running. If it doesn't show stock numbers, they know you are rooted.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
kennyglass123 said:
Google knows every app on your phone. If you have 1 app for rooted phones then you are probably rooted. Sprint can ping your phone and get the kernel, firmware and baseband you are running. If it doesn't show stock numbers, they know you are rooted.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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They don't care because half ifnot moe of the Android community is rooted, what's pathetic is there people who work for sprint and othr cariers are rooted. But then you have some assholes who think they know it all and don't care if you rooted your denied.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
txtmikhail said:
Well i dont think it gonna pass and if it does who is gonna stop me from rooting/hacking my own sh*t..
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Assuming you can do it all on your own and don't require any outside information or collaboration then technically nobody will stop you or likely even know. However if this decision does expire and it becomes a potential crime then you will see a lot less innovation.
XxLostSoulxX said:
They don't care because half ifnot moe of the Android community is rooted, what's pathetic is there people who work for sprint and othr cariers are rooted. But then you have some assholes who think they know it all and don't care if you rooted your denied.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
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If you're referring to the 'Android community' as the 'Android userbase' then I think you're WAY off. Not a chance 50% of the people with an Android phone are rooted. I mean, think of all the 40+ year olds that have android phones and hardly know how to use a touch screen, let alone anything about root. It may appear that way considering we're on this forum together or the friends you have, but I assure you, that number is probably much, much closer to 5-10% if that. Even that's a stretch. Doesn't android have like 300,000 activations per day going or something like that? There is no way half those people are rooting their phones.
Back on topic, the carrier can certainly check to see what's running on your phone as kenny (I think) posted previously. Also as stated above, I don't think this is anything to worry about as there has already been a precendent set about making it illegal. Carriers denying service to your handset knowing it's rooted is another topic though.
See, I remember when competition was about innovation, and if you wanted to keep yourself in business, the best way was to make something revolutionary. If Apple wants to keep itself in business, at least in the mobile market where they make the majority of income, they need to out innovate Android. Naysaying, and saying this is infringing on something, is not innovation. I mean the lockscreen is one thing that gets me, on Google it goes two ways, Google INNOVATED better then Apple, yet that is what they sue them for. Really?
hayzooos said:
If you're referring to the 'Android community' as the 'Android userbase' then I think you're WAY off. Not a chance 50% of the people with an Android phone are rooted.
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I fully agree. While all 4 of my Android phones are rooted, over the couple dozen people I know that have Androids, only 1 other person has rooted their phone.
Well this sucks..... if of course it passes anyways
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
saramon said:
See, I remember when competition was about innovation, and if you wanted to keep yourself in business, the best way was to make something revolutionary. If Apple wants to keep itself in business, at least in the mobile market where they make the majority of income, they need to out innovate Android. Naysaying, and saying this is infringing on something, is not innovation. I mean the lockscreen is one thing that gets me, on Google it goes two ways, Google INNOVATED better then Apple, yet that is what they sue them for. Really?
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Its sad how true this is. Before apple would just do their own thing, creating their products like the Ipod, not caring about what other MP3 devises may be out there. They just made it better. Now they get upset that the idea they stole has been modified and used by google... give me a F* break. end rant
txtmikhail said:
Well i dont think it gonna pass and if it does who is gonna stop me from rooting/hacking my own sh*t..
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Your comment makes sense none.
There's nothing to pass. This is about an existing law/exemption permitting smartphone hacking to expire.
Personally, I could care less. Samsung isn't going to sue us (though Sprint could), and Samsung already has open bootloaders.
The folks that should be worried are iPhone hackers. Apple will sue them into oblivion, and shoot themselves in the process.
I dont think they would go after the users, but they would go after source of information. Eitherway i dont like it. our devices we buy, should be for us to do as we please. i dont like restrictions, goverment should focus on other things more important than to stop innovation for the sake of companies profit. And companies should concentrate on putting quality products out there.
Fantastic.Ergo said:
I dont think they would go after the users, but they would go after source of information. Eitherway i dont like it. our devices we buy, should be for us to do as we please. i dont like restrictions, goverment should focus on other things more important than to stop innovation for the sake of companies profit. And companies should concentrate on putting quality products out there.
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Agree 100%! Once you buy a device it is yours to do what you please with it! If you want to risk bricking it or voiding the warranty, that should be your prerogative and nobody should be able to tell you otherwise! No matter if its a windows phone, iphone, or android you should be able to do as you please once you own the device...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
if i can buy a phone and smash it to the ground into a million little pieces just because, with no repercussion, i should be able to mod the software with out any problems as well.
CALL LG CUSTOMER SUPPORT. The phone is under a year old, so the 12 month warranty covers it regardless of how you voided the warranty. I sent mine to Texas, they repaired it (I assume they jtag'd it) and fedex'd it back to me.
Sorry, in a previous mention I instructed to lie and say a friend did it so you don't know how, not only is that wrong, but the pretext of how you bricked your device is irrelevant.
It's quite qood news, but to be honest, due to 'exploiting' warranty like this LG is making devices much harder to unlock. I mean, user f**k up his phone, sends it on warranty with any "I don't know how this happened" story and they have to replace it. Several cases are barely noticeable, but when countless number of people starts to do so, they loose some serious money
Fraud
Vivasanti said:
Fraud
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Seriously.
Amazing how ppl publicly post their fraudulent activity as if they want a high five? Warranty isn't even supposed to transfer from original owner
meyerweb said:
Seriously.
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Fraud - wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
So yea
Vivasanti said:
Fraud - wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
So yea
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I was agreeing, not doubting.
This is why lg and others do not want to unlock bootloaders.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
I don't see the problem? It's so easy for LG to fix the phone. Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the appropriate software or just replace the memory card.
They could also use these phones for parts :/
What?
xRamz said:
I don't see the problem? It's so easy for LG to fix the phone. Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the appropriate software or just replace the memory card.
They could also use these phones for parts :/
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Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the software? How long have you been on XDA that you don't even know how a phone operates. If it were as easy as just putting the software on the memory card, then people wouldn't have to send their phones back to LG in the first place. Some morons physically damage the motherboard of their phone by flashing incompatible kernels or firmware and cause heat issues that lead to short circuits. These kind of bricks are much more costly to fix than a software issue (which is call a soft-brick btw, a hard-brick is when the phone is in an unrecoverable state). It is people like you and the OP that keep companies like LG locking their boot loaders down. They're too worried about idiots like you messing their phone up and then screwing LG by claiming you don't know which idiot put software on your phone, knowing very well it is YOUR fault. As others have stated, it is quite shocking how many people are willing to brag about their illegal activity on a publicly available forum.
acparker18 said:
Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the software? How long have you been on XDA that you don't even know how a phone operates. If it were as easy as just putting the software on the memory card, then people wouldn't have to send their phones back to LG in the first place. Some morons physically damage the motherboard of their phone by flashing incompatible kernels or firmware and cause heat issues that lead to short circuits. These kind of bricks are much more costly to fix than a software issue (which is call a soft-brick btw, a hard-brick is when the phone is in an unrecoverable state). It is people like you and the OP that keep companies like LG locking their boot loaders down. They're too worried about idiots like you messing their phone up and then screwing LG by claiming you don't know which idiot put software on your phone, knowing very well it is YOUR fault. As others have stated, it is quite shocking how many people are willing to brag about their illegal activity on a publicly available forum.
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Haha alright bud calm down. What I was trying to say is I'm sure it's easy as hell for LG to repair the phone or replace a component. If I'm wrong how about teaching me rather than throwing insults hmm?
xRamz said:
Haha alright bud calm down. What I was trying to say is I'm sure it's easy as hell for LG to repair the phone or replace a component. If I'm wrong how about teaching me rather than throwing insults hmm?
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Maybe people like you and the OP should stop supporting illegal activity that harms the entire development community by encouraging phone manufacturers to lock down bootloaders. So no I will not teach you because if you screw something up you'll just give these manufacturers another reason to make it harder for us to unlock their next device.
f2bacon said:
MODERATOR EDIT: XDA RULES
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Yea not sure why you would want people to do that????
Definitely not for XDA
~/$ THREADCLOSED.sh
oposiasty said:
It's quite qood news, but to be honest, due to 'exploiting' warranty like this LG is making devices much harder to unlock. I mean, user f**k up his phone, sends it on warranty with any "I don't know how this happened" story and they have to replace it. Several cases are barely noticeable, but when countless number of people starts to do so, they loose some serious money
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acparker18 said:
Maybe people like you and the OP should stop supporting illegal activity that harms the entire development community by encouraging phone manufacturers to lock down bootloaders. So no I will not teach you because if you screw something up you'll just give these manufacturers another reason to make it harder for us to unlock their next device.
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What about this is illegal? Maybe in my case because I purposely bought a bricked phone but many people paid a good amount of money for phones that are no longer functional. That sucks, and considering LG has no issue fixing it, it's obviously under warranty, or I'd like to think they'd really bust my balls about it.
Maybe if the bootloader wasn't still locked people would be soft bricking their devices, instead of hard bricking. In my opinion if you want a phone that fights you in customization get an iphone, and stay off xda. This is where people make actual tutorials on how to purposely void your warranty.
=f2bacon;56020451]What about this is illegal? Maybe in my case because I purposely bought a bricked phone but many people paid a good amount of money for phones that are no longer functional. That sucks, and considering LG has no issue fixing it, it's obviously under warranty, or I'd like to think they'd really bust my balls about it.
Maybe if the bootloader wasn't still locked people would be soft bricking their devices, instead of hard bricking. In my opinion if you want a phone that fights you in customization get an iphone, and stay off xda. This is where people make actual tutorials on how to purposely void your warranty.[/QUOTE]
It's not a matter of legality regarding just voiding the warranty it's about fraud and purposefully lying about how you screwed your phone up after you read a legal agreement that stated you were knowingly abolishing your rights to your warranty by performing certain actions. The worst part is that this is a prime example of what LG is trying to stop by locking bootloaders. So this kind of behavior, regardless of being in protest or not, only adds fuel to the fire for LG. I apologize if I was rude but I just don't like seeing this kind of information on a public forum that LG definitely monitors and will look to for excuses to make it harder on all of us in the future.
acparker18 said:
lying about how you screwed your phone up after you read a legal agreement that stated you were knowingly abolishing your rights to your warranty by performing certain actions.
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I didn't screw my phone up, someone else did, and sold it on ebay, for a pretty cheap price. I bought it with the intent of fixing it, couldn't, found out its covered by warranty, and sent it to LG to fix. I admit I'm definitely taking advantage of the warranty, and I guess I did break the legal agreement regarding the warranty, but it turns out I didn't have to. I could've just said "Hi, my phone is broken. I need an RMA #, and an address to send my phone to"
f2bacon said:
I didn't screw my phone up, someone else did, and sold it on ebay, for a pretty cheap price. I bought it with the intent of fixing it, couldn't, found out its covered by warranty, and sent it to LG to fix. I admit I'm definitely taking advantage of the warranty, and I guess I did break the legal agreement regarding the warranty, but it turns out I didn't have to. I could've just said "Hi, my phone is broken. I need an RMA #, and an address to send my phone to"
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You're missing the entire point. This kind of behavior is harmful to the entire development community and just gives phone manufacturers incentive to keep us from being free to do what we want with our device in the future. Regardless of how you view the legality of the situation, you sent a phone back to LG knowing the warranty had already been voided by someone else. This is the exact reason that boot loaders are locked and our phones don't allow root access without exploits. Phone manufacturers see people like you who knowingly send in a user damaged phone and end up costing LG more money to repair it. Whether or not you think this hurts LG monetarily is aside the point. To those at LG, this is a problem that is solved by trying to keep people from making modifications like this to their phone at all, and that is the way LG is going to view the situation for the foreseeable future. So whether or not you violated warranty agreements or broke any laws doesn't matter now and I know that no further action will be taken, but what does matter is the fact that threads and advice like yours are only going to hurt the relationship between phone manufacturers and the indie developer community. If you are going to do this kind of thing, well I can't stop you. However, I do ask that you not publicly post your taking advantage of the system as it only causes more tension between us and the companies that make the devices we are trying keep from being locked down in the first place.
But no matter what, people are going to bork their own phones, bootloader locked or not. By having the bootloader unlocked it wouldn't be a hard bricked situation, and they wouldn't have to inhouse jtag these devices. And more importantly what do you suggest? That the people who paid $700 for a phone, that tried something like installing xposed on a phone without root or something, should just be happy with their brick? I mean sure it's their responsibility, their phone, but they come to developers, to see how to fix it, and if it's soft bricked they can fix it themselves, or have some dingus fix it for them. I'm just pointing out LG will fix it. If they start noticing damn so many people are sending back hard bricked devices, maybe they should make it so that doesn't happen. Don't lie about voiding your warranty, just don't mention it. At no point did they ask how it was bricked.
I'm not trying to debate the ethics, I'm just saying LG can and will fix hard bricked g3's for free. For the many other people who are just holding a $700 literal brick, there is a fix.
f2bacon said:
But no matter what, people are going to bork their own phones, bootloader locked or not. By having the bootloader unlocked it wouldn't be a hard bricked situation, and they wouldn't have to inhouse jtag these devices. And more importantly what do you suggest? That the people who paid $700 for a phone, that tried something like installing xposed on a phone without root or something, should just be happy with their brick? I mean sure it's their responsibility, their phone, but they come to developers, to see how to fix it, and if it's soft bricked they can fix it themselves, or have some dingus fix it for them. I'm just pointing out LG will fix it. If they start noticing damn so many people are sending back hard bricked devices, maybe they should make it so that doesn't happen. Don't lie about voiding your warranty, just don't mention it. At no point did they ask how it was bricked.
I'm not trying to debate the ethics, I'm just saying LG can and will fix hard bricked g3's for free. For the many other people who are just holding a $700 literal brick, there is a fix.
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The solution is, if someone bricks their phone by messing with it then they pay the repair.
Believe it or not it costs lg big money to cope with things like this and this is why they keep it locked.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
Richieboy67 said:
The solution is, if someone bricks their phone by messaging with it then they pay the repair.
Believe it or not it costs lg big money to cope with things like this and this is edgy they keep it locked.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
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But by keeping it locked, they're making it a bigger issue! If the bootloader wasn't locked, users could get into recovery mode. Hard bricks would be soft bricks, and the fix would be easier, regardless of who does it.