Database Users

Windows 8 is now stable on ARM!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-5...-on-arm-going-to-developers-soon-say-sources/

BlackTavern said:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-5...-on-arm-going-to-developers-soon-say-sources/
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Yes but it requires 40ish Gb of space, a secure boot image and OEM branding to function... none of which we have so stop posting about it

evil secure boot: if you get one of those, it won't run Android on it (unless someone cracks their keys)

mrevankyle said:
Yes but it requires 40ish Gb of space, a secure boot image and OEM branding to function... none of which we have so stop posting about it
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so what i dnt think the op was saying it was stable on the tf101so stop being a rudeinconsiderate jerk

Completely off-topic; this thread should be moved to a forum that has anything to do with Windows 8.
And incidentally, Win8 will be the next Vista. It will flop, badly. Microsoft has never managed an even slightly successful touch-screen OS, and Win8 has significant design limitations that will put people off once they finally get to try it.

As much as I agree that Windows 8 may flop, I also disagree about MS never building a decent touchscreen OS. Before Windows 7, absolutely - however the Acer running Windows 7 worked extremely well to my surprise. It worked just as a tablet should and the response time was impressive. Any tablet that has a fan is a fail though, so if it works well on ARM - maybe.....
If Microsoft can make Windows 8 work and improve on the "tiles" portion, I think it could be a reasonable tablet OS.

neofreek01 said:
so what i dnt think the op was saying it was stable on the tf101so stop being a rudeinconsiderate jerk
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I am sorry that you think that that was inconsiderate it just irritates me when someone opens a new thread for a topic that has already been discussed multiple times in the form of a device that will never get that operating system. There is an entire windows 8 section of XDA and i think that this post would have better served to start a discussion there

caseyc said:
As much as I agree that Windows 8 may flop, I also disagree about MS never building a decent touchscreen OS. Before Windows 7, absolutely - however the Acer running Windows 7 worked extremely well to my surprise. It worked just as a tablet should and the response time was impressive. Any tablet that has a fan is a fail though, so if it works well on ARM - maybe.....
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What percentage of Windows7 users are even aware it can operate with a touch screen, much less use it that way?
I rest my case.

What percentage of iPad users know that tablets can be used for things outside of Angry Birds and porn?
The point isn't that Windows necessarily suck at touchscreen capability, it's just that they don't seem to have attracted much attention with it. Whether it's because they also believe that bull**** Apple has created around tablets and want to be seen as a more serious company... or if they're just too damn slow and big to move quickly, who knows?
(By the way, slightly off topic, but where is the best source to gather all past financial history on Apple and Microsoft??)

I wonder how many people will think that Windows 8 on tablets will run Windows applications... Windows 8 is heading for disaster consumer confusion will be the order of the day when Microsoft release 2 versions of Windows 8 that are totally different OSes that run different binary apps.
Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk

CrazyPeter said:
I wonder how many people will think that Windows 8 on tablets will run Windows applications... Windows 8 is heading for disaster consumer confusion will be the order of the day when Microsoft release 2 versions of Windows 8 that are totally different OSes that run different binary apps.
Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk
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Yeah, i really do wonder, how many people are going to buy some w8 tablet thinking that they might run any .exe files from their computer I believe there will be many flames thx to it. Not to mention the catastrophic amount of application after the launch....
And the impossibility to dualboot any other system -> w8 will be doomed and forgotten on arm.

asdfuogh said:
What percentage of iPad users know that tablets can be used for things outside of Angry Birds and porn?
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A pretty good percentage, I'd say, and the same is true of Android users. However, that straw man has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is that Microsoft has had nothing but dismal failure with touchscreen features of every product they've offered.
CrazyPeter said:
I wonder how many people will think that Windows 8 on tablets will run Windows applications... Windows 8 is heading for disaster consumer confusion will be the order of the day when Microsoft release 2 versions of Windows 8 that are totally different OSes that run different binary apps.
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This is one of the key problems I alluded to, and given the number of people in this very forum who don't understand that issue, the answer is "a lot".

CrazyPeter said:
I wonder how many people will think that Windows 8 on tablets will run Windows applications... Windows 8 is heading for disaster consumer confusion will be the order of the day when Microsoft release 2 versions of Windows 8 that are totally different OSes that run different binary apps.
Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk
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I'm one. That's actually what I was expecting =[
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

blestsol said:
I'm one. That's actually what I was expecting =[
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
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Apparently, I am one, too. I am sadly mistaken, and was quite bigoted to have thought otherwise.

We have a ASUS see slate at the hospital that I work at. It runs Windows 7 64bit with a Solid state drive and 2 gigs of ram, able to go to 4 gigs. It is actually a very solid machine, And cost effictive for our hospital. Most doctors have dell xt2 tablets they carry around that are POS, cost around 3500. For like 1200 you can get a slate a eeeslate and keyboard.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

knoxploration said:
What percentage of Windows7 users are even aware it can operate with a touch screen, much less use it that way?
I rest my case.
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Uh, what? I get that the marketing sucks and they only have like 3 tablets out that run Windows 7 (if that), but that doesn't mean it doesn't work well. I'm obviously not saying it is or ever will be as popular as Android/iOS tablets, hahahah.
Microsoft is an OS developer, and until they manufacture the hardware as well (which won't happen) they're going to have to license Windows to tablet manufacturers who actually want to make them. How many manufacturers want to pay a license for Windows when they can just as easily slap Android on any piece of hardware for free? Not to mention they've had to build Windows tablets using x86 architecture all along which isn't cheap when it's not mass-ordered by every other OEM.
That said, my point was that Windows 7 works surprisingly well as a tablet OS, not that it's going to compete for 1st place with the big boys.
Just as Windows Phone 7 is a relative dud, I'm sure Windows 8 ARM will be as well. Not because the OS doesn't work well on a tablet, but because they are FARRRRRR too late in the game. Popular app developers are just now starting to port their catalog to Android, it's not likely that they are going to consider also porting to Windows on ARM when the user base will be virtually non-existent.
---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------
CrazyPeter said:
I wonder how many people will think that Windows 8 on tablets will run Windows applications... Windows 8 is heading for disaster consumer confusion will be the order of the day when Microsoft release 2 versions of Windows 8 that are totally different OSes that run different binary apps.
Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk
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That's a great point, and I'm sure 90% of the people who buy Windows tablets are going to be people who want to take their desktop applications to a mobile platform.
I guess I just saw a glimmer of hope with the Windows 7 tablet I was surprised by in the store, but I'm being reminded how unlikely it is that Microsoft will ever succeed with any sort of a mobile product for regular consumers.

It's unfortunate, but both Windows 8 in it's tablet form, and Windows Phone 7 are relying on consumer ignorance to succeed.
The Tech news community are the ones at fault here, not highlighting these critical problems with the products, instead banking Microsoft's lucrative "advertising" payments in exchange for saying nice things.
Corporate America ****ing disgusts me. Almost as much as the lack of action by the US government in Microsoft's anti-trust practices.
Looking at the list of categories here, Microsoft have violated most of these at one time, and many they still continue to do so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices

I am waiting for win 8 Arm tablet
I am one waiting for an arm tablet on windows 8.

I was at one point looking forward to Win8 on ARM but after reading about how MS is going to be locking down ARM systems that run Win8 I have no desire any longer. When will MS and for that matter HW manufacturers understand that an ARM tablet is NO different than a white box PC. Leave it open and unlocked and if someone chooses to install Windows, Android, iOS, Linux, etc... let them.

@ asdfuogh
Made my Day

A serious Question for us Android tablet users!

Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
As being a previous loyal android user, i found myself quite moved and worried about the rumours regarding Windows 8 tablet taking over the market leaving android tablets to die, upon hearing this i asked myself if is this really possible?? Because if it is then what will become of my transformer after a year? For which to buy i had sold my old laptop.
Please leave your ideas and opinions so that this discussion can be carried on.

alizafar said:
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
As being a previous loyal android user, i found myself quite moved and worried about the rumours regarding Windows 8 tablet taking over the market leaving android tablets to die, upon hearing this i asked myself if is this really possible?? Because if it is then what will become of my transformer after a year? For which to buy i had sold my old laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a year your tablet will be three maybe four generations old and lacking. That said it will be exactly what it is today. Awesome.
Windows 8 sucks. It won't take anything over.. garbage.

I haven't tried Windows 8 on a tablet, but I did try the free preview on a desktop. I am terribly ashamed to admit it.
I installed it on a computer that I don't use as a daily driver and I disconnected the ethernet to keep things relatively safe. Truly, this is more cautious than when I knowingly put viruses on my computer to test out my virus scanner. No joke. After I burned the installation DVD, I wrote "Caution! Windows 8" on it so that I wouldn't install it, thinking it was a linux distro that I wanted to play around with.
At any rate, Windows 8 is a joke. The UI is terrible and it's just a ploy to take your information. It reminds me of Vista and how that was a flop that they turned into Windows 7. Did anyone see the project Mohave videos?. Navigation is not intuitive and the tiles and charms bar are a mess. It's really the stuff that was leftover and fell on the floor. Take all the stuff that iOS and Android never used because it sucked and bam! Windows 8!
In the interest of disclosure, I dislike Windows and Microsoft products in general.

Good Question
This is a good question, and one I thought about myself. Honestly I don't think it would be hard for Windows to overtake Android tablets, Amazon did it with the kindel. I love my transformer and the OP it has basically replaced my laptop in a lot of ways. But honestly, up to this point I haven't seen anything that would suggest Google can compete well against Windows Amazon or Apple. The update process on Android is ridiculous, and developer support although improving is lacking. Google won't put some sort of QC process and organization on the market so tablet specific apps are hard to find. All of these things are off putting to casual consumers and usually why they choose other OS's. That said, all this can be improved and I think Android tablets will sell more but until then I'm keeping my eye on Windows 8. If they can offer me the same functionality with usb ports, user upgraded memory at a resonable price I might consider a Windows tablet.

I also have the Win8 Consumer Preview installed.
It is an interesting blend of a traditional OS and a tablet OS, but it is still not going to take over Android IMO.
There is still a lot of unknowns. Even if Windows tablets take off, the low powered Tegra variety will probably have issues running full software (like Office) since it is designed for x86 and x64 processors. I know the Atom processors struggled with this for a while.
In general, I will be sticking with Windows 7 because the metro UI is not what I want in a desktop OS. Even for a tablet OS, I still prefer Android.

alizafar said:
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
on.
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Click to collapse
Probably should have asked this question the day before yesterday.

I wouldn't rule out Microsoft, I have Windows 8 running on an Acer W500 tablet and although it is not quite ready for prime time, the fact that I can run Office 10, surf any site I want, etc. makes it pretty darn useful compared to Android or iOs. It's almost like iOS has the perfect consumption device for people who are just going to surf a bit and do some light stuff, while Windows 8 could handle that plus serious business stuff. I worry about Android's survival because of the lack of control by Google. Between vendors fighting to see who can put out the cheapest tablet, phone carriers and vendors modifying the heck out of it to "differentiate" themselves, and the inability to predict when or if a particular unit will get an update I can't see too many regular people picking an Android tablet compared to iOS or WIndows 8. By the way, that doesn't apply to the people on this forum who are by definition people who enjoy tinkering with their tablets, but if you start talking to the vast majority of the population about rooting, adb, etc. their eyes will glass over. A small vocal minority makes for a neat foruum experience, but it doesn't keep an operating system alive.

I honestly don't see how windows 8 will capture the hearts of the public with the tiles instead of icons. Icons have become so popular because they take advantage of people's natural ability to recognize shapes and patterns at a glance. With tiles, everything looks the same at a glance. I tried out windows 8 and I very quickly found myself having to concentrate more just to see which tile belong to what app. It was annoying as hell.

I tried wp7 and i must say it feels the same as it looks, blocky as hell and windows 8 looks the same. I love android because i can customize it, install whatever i want, root it, flash it, is fast, lots of updates, innovations etc.
I <3 windows on my pc, but <3 Android on my mobile devices and i think it will remain like that for a long time.

I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.

gee one said:
Take all the stuff that iOS and Android never used because it sucked and bam! Windows 8!
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Bwahahahahahaha!!!! Good one!

If windows 8 tablets run on an x86 platform then you'll be able to run all windows apps including games on it so I could see them taking a chunk out of the existing laptop/tablet market.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

I love my Android tablet but it can't totally replace a PC yet. I've been thinking about the ASUS Eee Slate for a while. Price and the fact that Windows 7 is not really tablet optimized has held me back (plus my dismal experience with ASUS RMA's didn't help much). A well made tablet with a tablet optimized OS and a Wacom stylus interests me. I draw and need an office program to do schoolwork.

bbedward said:
If windows 8 tablets run on an x86 platform then you'll be able to run all windows apps including games on it...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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This is perhaps the most commonly held misconception out there.
---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------
letsgophillyingeneral said:
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
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Click to collapse
Believe it or not, I'm very excited about windows 8. I really am. My gripe with it is for some unfathomable reason they decided to use tiles instead of icons. This one thing will turn most people away.

I think Tweaked hit it on the head.
With nVidia's announced product schedule, one year will bring about huge changes in the tablet market. I don't think you have to worry about Windows 8, but if the huge juggernaut that is the iPad is not killing us right now, then Windows 8 can do absolutely no harm.

Google isn't going to let Android die. It's Google. What Windows 8 will do is bring more competition into the market, which is always a good thing for us consumers.
What will eventually become obsolete are phones and tablets with hardware that can't support Windows 8 or Google's new Android.

Android, and even iOS, are specifically written for a mobile platform.
They are designed to be energy efficient, work with reasonably priced hardware (OK, maybe not in the iOS case) and were built from the ground up for this purpose.
Microsoft is trying to make their desktop environment fit on a tablet.
It was not designed for the mobile platform, not even talking about the interface, I'm talking about efficiency and lack of bloat.
In order to maintain their compatibility they have to add a lot of (in most cases) unnecessary bloat for the few people that may require it.
I'm not bashing Microsoft, I'm just saying the can't shoe-horn their desktop OS on a mobile device and expect it to compete with devices that were specifically designed for the mobile space.

I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to, but from what I've seen and heard it has a horrible interface that makes desktop use a horrible experience. The interface looks like it will be useful on a tablet but Microsoft has come too late into the tablet game and will have to bust their asses to catch up. All their apps for their ARM version has to be rewritten from the ground up so they essentially don't have any apps available compared to Android and iOS which have hundreds of thousands of apps available, the x86 version may have more success since they don't have to completely change everything. Although they do have a lot of work ahead of them because apparently they're ditching .NET and using a new language which developers have to learn, here's the kicker the development tools aren't even finished yet!
I don't think we have a lot to worry about considering that the iPad hasn't killed the Android tablet yet. I think a lot of people are going to get Windows 8 and see how much of a clusterfuck it is and wish they had never spent the money on it. Windows has always been a dirty OS that requires Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software to keep it usable, do you really want to have to use that stuff on your tablet also? I guess we'll have to see how it pans out. I think its going to be a miserable failure just like their phones are. It's their last ditch effort to stay relevant in the changing PC market.
Sent from my Transformer using Tapatalk

brando56894 said:
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to, but from what I've seen and heard it has a horrible interface that makes desktop use a horrible experience. The interface looks like it will be useful on a tablet but Microsoft has come too late into the tablet game and will have to bust their asses to catch up.
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Click to collapse
umm what? Windows 8 does have the standard Windows interface. Metro is basically an overlay GUI. You can turn it on and off.

brando56894 said:
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to,
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Click to collapse
Stopped right there. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you start an argument off like that?
If you had played with one of the early Windows 8 builds, whether it be the Dev Editition or the Consumer Preview, you would've quickly realized that Windows 8 provides the same exact desktop experience as Windows 7 / Vista.
Like I said earlier in the thread:
letsgophillyingeneral said:
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Windows 8 possible?

Is it possible to install Windows 8 (and Android for dualboot) on de tab 7.7?

why to downdgrade the best mobil OS to absolutely limited and not so much supported OS?

I want to do things i can not do in Android. Is it possible to install Windows 7/8 ?

No directly, since 16GB internal storage might not be enough for the OS, besides the arm version of windows is not out yet, in the future perhaps someone will try to port it to the tab 7.7, but I wouldn't count on it.

It's doubtful that Microsoft will sell open copies of the ARM version. Bundling with licensed new devices is what I read. Samsung loves to release tablets, so there will most likely be a Windows 8 Galaxy at some point. Just don't count on being able to install it on your 7.7.

maysider said:
why to downdgrade the best mobil OS to absolutely limited and not so much supported OS?
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i would love to boot windows when wanted,android is cute but windows is a real os and it would be great to have truly everything in 1 device.

Windows ARM Edition will not support x86 Apps so no use in Flashing that

manny1983nyc said:
i would love to boot windows when wanted,android is cute but windows is a real os and it would be great to have truly everything in 1 device.
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Use a vpn, remote desktop tool, or something like Onlive. Depending on your needs of course. What do you want to do on Windows on a 7.7"screen that you can't do on Android? I'm curious.
Sent from my GT-P6800 using XDA

Play pc games with a wireless remote or root peoples phones or add files to them or have a real browser that is much faster and not glitchy at all.Using a android remote desktop app is cool 2 but not as solid.

manny1983nyc said:
Play pc games with a wireless remote or root peoples phones or add files to them or have a real browser that is much faster and not glitchy at all.Using a android remote desktop app is cool 2 but not as solid.
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Not to prejudge Microsoft, but I would not at all be surprised if the ARM version of Windows 8 has the same kinds of issues as Android does. It won't have the flexibility of x86/64 versions of Windows.

hopefully it does

manny1983nyc said:
Play pc games with a wireless remote or root peoples phones or add files to them or have a real browser that is much faster and not glitchy at all.Using a android remote desktop app is cool 2 but not as solid.
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Click to collapse
Again, the windows ARM version will not support the existing x86 infrastructure
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium

trustme_ said:
hopefully it does
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No you have to understand that ARM and x86 are a lot different and apps need to be either ported (a lot of work) or emulated (which would result in bad performance)
Sent from my GT-P6800 using xda premium

isn't it really possible to install windows 8 in this tab? since ics is highly unlikely and hc is just ^**&^%$#@&@()#&)@(&#:|

windows on ARM is a nonsense: no apps, many baby issues, closed platform, no HW support, ...
is there any reason to use W8 on ARM?? please, tell me

It could me more fluid and responsive than hc now. It may nit be guaranteed but its worth a try.
Sent from my GT-P6800 using XDA Premium HD app

so buy a device with ICS if is a fluidness and a responsiveness more important to you

this is also a somewhat pricey tablet. what do you expect me to do with this? i can't just buy a tab when ever i want. i have budget constrains too.

Wow so much bad information, I had to stop reading on the second page.
Lets clarify some things and I will answer some fo the questions that were .....
.... missleading.
1) Windows RT (aka ARM version) will not be opensource, this is true. But this is not to say that it will be "closed hardware" Lets be very realistic for a moment. Hows that Open Source ICS working out for ya?
.... well ?
2) Windows RT will not run 2 things directly: a) unmanaged x86 code ... i mean DUH!! b)unmanaged code for ARM without it being "rooted"
This will take a bit of explaining ...
W8RT is somewhat interesting in how it works. think of managed code as JAVA (that doesn't suck balls) and unmanaged code as C... or Objective C for you poor iphone coders. While unmanaged code requires recompiling for every Instruction set, managed code does not.
What does this mean? Simple ... most apps that work on your WM phone will work on a tablet. That being said .... many will not present well.
3) So will windows ever be ported to the a tablet .... yeah its pretty likely ....
just not the Tab 7.7 .... and I somehow doubt it ever will be because ... well ... why would they do that.
4) but i want to play MW3 on my tablet, why can't I?
because god said use your damn xbox360. Seriously .... if you havn't figured out why that is not going to work ... then that is the best answer i can give you.
5) why would anyone want Windows 8 RT?
Have you used it? Dude seriously, it is the holy f*cking grail of mobile computing. This kit is so nice if will cure cancer. I will end global warming ... errr "climate change" and bring your family back from the dead.
Ok so it won't being them back from the dead, but seriously its a pretty massive leap in usability and compute ergonomics. Oh and its slick as ice.
I mean if we are messuring the viability of an OS .... who the **** would use a unix based hot mess with a **** frontend that is so bad that everyone and thier brother tried to rewrite it.

phigmeta said:
Wow so much bad information, I had to stop reading on the second page.
Lets clarify some things and I will answer some fo the questions that were .....
.... missleading.
1) Windows RT (aka ARM version) will not be opensource, this is true. But this is not to say that it will be "closed hardware" Lets be very realistic for a moment. Hows that Open Source ICS working out for ya?
.... well ?
2) Windows RT will not run 2 things directly: a) unmanaged x86 code ... i mean DUH!! b)unmanaged code for ARM without it being "rooted"
This will take a bit of explaining ...
W8RT is somewhat interesting in how it works. think of managed code as JAVA (that doesn't suck balls) and unmanaged code as C... or Objective C for you poor iphone coders. While unmanaged code requires recompiling for every Instruction set, managed code does not.
What does this mean? Simple ... most apps that work on your WM phone will work on a tablet. That being said .... many will not present well.
3) So will windows ever be ported to the a tablet .... yeah its pretty likely ....
just not the Tab 7.7 .... and I somehow doubt it ever will be because ... well ... why would they do that.
4) but i want to play MW3 on my tablet, why can't I?
because god said use your damn xbox360. Seriously .... if you havn't figured out why that is not going to work ... then that is the best answer i can give you.
5) why would anyone want Windows 8 RT?
Have you used it? Dude seriously, it is the holy f*cking grail of mobile computing. This kit is so nice if will cure cancer. I will end global warming ... errr "climate change" and bring your family back from the dead.
Ok so it won't being them back from the dead, but seriously its a pretty massive leap in usability and compute ergonomics. Oh and its slick as ice.
I mean if we are messuring the viability of an OS .... who the **** would use a unix based hot mess with a **** frontend that is so bad that everyone and thier brother tried to rewrite it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, dude I get what you are saying...those windows 8 previews/demos at Computex 2012 look bad Ass!
As an android fanboy, I will still be first in line to admit that windows 8 with its metro UI is possibly going to trump android unless Google brings their A-game with android 4.1/5.0 (jelly bean/whatever flavor it is this time). every-time I see a preview/demo of the metro UI I ask... WHY IS IT SOO SMOOTH??? AAGHGHH! LOL
But heres to the dreamers: windows 8 RT + ICS dual-booting on the tab 7.7. yikes!
PS - still love my tab 7.7.
PEACE

[Q] Few general questions - before I buy tablet now

Hi (sorry for length of the post!),
I am on the verge of getting new tablet.
I have good, old iPad 1 but unfortunately it is more toy than tool.
I have decided that device like Transformer (hybrid tablet/laptop) would be perfect for what I do. Till few days ago I was all set to wait for such a device with Win8 on-board... but now I am not so sure anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to help me make a good choice.
Currently during day I use at least two PC's with Win7 (and Windows Live services) + Google Chrome and iPad.
As much as I like iPad I hate that it can not sync (in full) like two PC's and especially Chrome (not to mention the lack of keyboard).
Because as I wrote I use Live services I was thinking that by the end of the year I should get a Windows Phone device (few of the things I need to know about WP are here, can you help? : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1643996), Win8 for desktop and tablet with Win8 onboard.
From what I read Win8 will be much more "closed" when compared to prev. vers of Windows.
Questions are:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
All insights are welcome!

Sry, didn't have the time to answer all of your questions but hopefully some parts will be clearer in some minutes ^^
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
4.) If Google is willing to release Chrome for Windows 8 RT (the ARM version), you will be able to install it on all your W8 devices. But you could buy a x86 tablet and the desktop version of Chrome will run.
So, have to go...
Some last words: Tablets with x86 are just like a desktop pc for win7 with a touchscreen, a new look and feel and in one little case

galtom said:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps. So an ARM version will force you unless you: Have a developer account, Are on a Domain, or Use an items signed by a trusted cert provider and make some registry settings.
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
galtom said:
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
galtom said:
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
galtom said:
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
galtom said:
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 yes. Metro requires an App. I use this today on Windows 8.
galtom said:
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 is completely open. ARM is restricted to things that install on ARM, and in most cases to things that are acquired through the METRO store (except for the exceptions listed in item 1
galtom said:
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.

most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too

First of all thank you all for your time (and answers).
Since (as usual) answers to questions raise new questions... we... here we go
hanswurst24 said:
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I am not so sure... and I think even for MS "all this" might be a problem.
On one hand they should not change "philosophy" of Windows because no one would swap Win7 to Win8 if they would have to buy all software form 1 (or few) stores only).
On the other hand Windows Phone is showing the way they want to/would like to go (which company would not want to make extra cash on apps the way Apple, Google and Amazon are doing??? - to find balance will not be easy).
All this shows (in my opinion) another problem - system fragmentation. Only iOS is safe as Apple has full control over system and devices (but THANK GOD - is not that stubborn on geo/market restrictions as Google or Ms).
If you remember how confusing for customers it was with Vista and Win7 versions imagine what will happen now?
To be honest (if those versions RT and x86) will differ so much in terms of practicability, options, openness, functions of hardware I cant imagine how everything will be introduced, market and advertised in order for "Mr Average Joe" to comprehend and not run back next day to the shop with complaints - about system, software, compatibility, etc...
Looks like a pure nightmare and I think this is the reason (they do not know what to do exactly with all this mess) we have so little information on how it all is going to work and c0-work with each other :-(
2). You see... as far as I know if I would buy Windows Phone (or RT Win8 tablet - by the end of the year) I will be limited to apps available only in my location. If Live ID is assigned to UK than forget (even free!) apps for US market (and others). In my case it is a disaster... For my pleasure and entertainment I use apps (on iOS and Android [if I can find them - it is way more difficult than on iOS] from UK, US and Poland.
Installing Netflix or BBC iPlayer on a dive form other parts of the world on iOS is very simple and does not require any hacking/rooting/jaibrakes/etc/.
On Android one has to know how to root the device and than simply search the net... not alwys finding what he/she wants.
On Windows Phone if you create new Live ID (like on iOS), switching those equals HARD RESET of the device.
If that will be the case with Win8 RT... that is a very bad news! Even if x86 ver will have less restrisctions those news will be bad for ARM manufacturers as they will get like "handicapped" system when compared to x86... - would you be happy about it if you were Nvidia or Qualcomm?
hanswurst24 said:
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it will, maybe it will not... question are:
- will it at all?
- how difficult it will be to install (root? bootloader? other restrictions? unauthorized software when compared to what your Live ID has bought from the shop?)
- how many AVERAGE people will want to go into all this mess?
michiganenginerd said:
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... if there will DESKTOP mode on Win8 RT don't you think it will limit its general appeal. If it will be so restricted, without desktop mode... why would you want it over Android?
michiganenginerd said:
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you are right... this move from MS would mean that hardly anyone will buy ARM version of the system -> ARM devices with Win8 will not sell. If that would be the case what would be the point for ARM ver of Win8 in first place if no sane manufacturer would invest money to produce devices that can not compete with x86 devices because of system they have. Unless they are very, VERY cheap (looking at cost of Android devices is not making me hopeful in this matter) or if people do not much care for the system but for batt. life - again why would you want Win8 over Android or (well established) iOS. It is worth to remember that it will be even more difficult to win customers who already own Android or iOS device - there is a good chance that they have spend quite a lot of cash so far on apps.
QUESTION (off topic): if you got iOS, purchased apps are assigned to account, not device -> meaning if you buy an app for iPad 1 you can still use it on iPad3. How dose it work on Windows Phone and Android devices?
michiganenginerd said:
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proxy/VPN is not a problem - problem is in Live ID that is assigned to a specific country during creation and registration. In this case your IP does not matter. It is the same with Google Play. Once you have your Google account you can connect to the store form any location but it will not allow you ti install software not in your market (even if you can see it).
michiganenginerd said:
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if it will be so difficult with getting those apps it might influence sales and opinions outside of the US.
It looks to me that if only manufacturers of x86 devices will resolve problem with heating and active cooling (which imho have no please on tablet or hybrid laptop) it will be the only ver of Win8 that will make sense to buy.
Shame, as I would love to have "all this freedom" on an ARM device - I do not need computing power on mobile device but I also do not want to be limited in what I can install and from where/who.
michiganenginerd said:
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happens now 9on x86 Win8) if you try to add shortcut to Chrome on Metro UI? It dose not shows... or what?
If so, you mean you can lunch any software from desktop but not from metro screen? Does not make much sense... does it?
I understand that a "Metro app" will be easier to use and more touch friendly that current range of apps designed for mouse but still... it should be my choice. If I want to use it let me start it from any interface.
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering buying now something like TF Prime or TF 300 - it might do what I need. And with some outside help (perhaps from here) beside usual stuff I should be able to get VPN client, Hulu +, Netflix and BBC on it. I am not worried about text editors as there should be quite few of those that will work with docx files and skydrive and hotmail.
And if Win8 will be a hit (I already bought Vista on a first day of sale - never again the same mistake! ) than I will consider getting it for my desktop and perhaps swapping a hybrid mobile device.
Does it make sense?
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what I wrote above .
dazza9075 said:
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I see your points, but...
It is still long wait for Win8, devices, decent reviews, all the hype and prices to settle and actual (physical) choice in the shop. I remember all the hype about competition to iPad 1 when it came out - it took almost a over year for devices to get to shops (remember CES and MWC in 2010 and 2011) - it is 2012 and not all devices are here.
How long it took Xoom to get to shops outside USA...?
Although Win8 (RT as well???) will go on sale after holidays... time for actual devices with the system (laptops, ultrabooks, netbooks, desktops, all in one PC's, tablets and hybrid tablets [have I missed anything?]) to get to the shop is a whole different story.
Meaning.... if it will take another (at least) 6-8 months to have an actual choice in the shops is it worth to wait and suffer in the mean time? But if I do get a TF300/Prime now - will I need a Win8 replacement for it?

sounds like you already made your mind up what you want to do and that Win 8 will not be as good as we think.
So perhaps save yourself to hassle and don't bother with it.
As for buying now that's up to you, but Win 8 wont be that long, hardware will be out soon and if you don't want that new hardware the older stuff will be a lot cheaper. 8 months after launch is way to far down the line, MS will be bending OEMs over backwards to get hardware out for launch.
You would be completely Bonkers buying now, we are about to get an RC of win 8, ARM will be getting developed in parallel, OEMs will have hardware taped out already to test the OS, which is something Apple doesn't have to worry too much about as they build the OS and hardware around one another where as Windows needs to support it all hence the longer development cycle and early gear in the wild
IF you get something now, there is no guarantee it will work or work well with Win RT or x86, so yes, potentially you will need to get new gear, and of course Win RT is OEM only meaning you can only get it with hardware soo.... you choice I guess.

As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
galtom said:
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
You have two types of devices: Windows & Windows RT
You have two types of applications: Metro & Classic
RT devices are low power tablets running metro only.
Windows devices are likely to be ultrabooks, convertible laptops, and desktops running what they run today.
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Not letting Diablo II & HALO run on Windows RT isn't just an arbitrary restriction. It won't run. It wasn't written, compiled, and tested on an ARM architecture.
galtom said:
Restrictions / curation:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
galtom said:
Flash Support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
galtom said:
Why would I buy Win8 RT over android if it is restricted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
galtom said:
It is still long wait for Win8 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.

michiganenginerd said:
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is true but only to a point.
At the moment I think I will give ICS on Asus TF a try and byt the end of the year if x86 tablets with W8 will get good reviews I think I will jump the ship.
My concern (I had Asus 1201n with Atom 330 onboard and have Samsung NC10) is performance of current Atom chips - is it really better (forget about watching smooth YT video on NC10 - and it is not a problem on iPad!).
Heat! - cant have tablet with active cooling system.
Weight! - the likes of current fliptop netbook/tablets its just not nice (heavy and hot).
Battery life - 8h is a must (basically x86 W8 tablet [with a dock] has to be able to work (videos, internet, e-mail - nothing very heavy) to work 1 day
michiganenginerd said:
Originally Posted by galtom
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not exactly what I have asked or at least not what I meant.
It is clear from me that x86 and ARM are two different platforms and I have never, ever expected old software to work on ARM devices.
But! If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT? If someone wants to create an ARM app that will support both modes, if users will want to use it...? Why not let us have the option to do so.
Second is the limitation of the sources of the software.
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is. But since iOS i way ahead of Windows and there is lots of Android devices on the market I can not see this as a PLUS point for W-RT, quite opposite.
W-RT (and devices with this system) will have to compete with:
- iOS: that is well marketed, well known, still cool, less restricted (no problem in swapping iTunes accounts), people already spend cash on software for their iPads, there is Office for iOS + lots of other business & entertainment software - why would current Apple customers ditch iPads?
Why would and iOS device owner said - OOO, another closed and restricted enviromet just looking different - I want it! - somehow I do not see that happening
- Android: envelope of openness that surrounds Android, no problem with root, community support, ROMS, apps from Google (or from wherever you want), probably a bit lower prices of devices, as iOS (in most cases) works with all Microsoft services + points as in iOS - folks have already spent cash on software, some devices are already in second or third generation
- Windows 8 x86 it has everything W-RT has + lots of more. Beats iOS and Android in terms of software availability, it is basically what you now have on desktop and laptop but with the proper support for touch (when you need it), if Intel&Friends will solve problems of weight/heat/battery life and price range will not be as for current line of Windows tablets it looks like a winner to me.
Having said (wrote) all that - why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things :-(
+ Office for iOS should be here any moment (I thought it is already out). As much as MS would love to ignore iOS and keep Office out of iPAD I do not think they can. how many millions devices is already out there? If only 25% of those people would want one of Office products... its quite a lot of cash...
+ to all points above - there is also a question of price of the software for all platforms and system itself.
What's more, considering how big profit Apple is making on iPad it seems as lots of room for price adjustment once Windows8 & RT devices are out.
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite true, but since I miss this sort of functionality every day (and I doubt I am only one) why not go for TF300 or TF Prime now?
There is nothing wrong with those devices and when I look at ICS and what RT will bring to table I do not see any reasonable points that would convince me to wait (that was the reason I wrote here - to see I my line of thinking is correct. So far (unfortunately for W-RT) you have not wrote that I am wrong or that I have misunderstood something about Windows RT.
The only thing worth considering are devices with x86 Windows onboard but:
- its still few months (in the mean time I could give ICS a try?
- they are unknown in terms of battery/heat/weight and price!
Windows RT seems like a great idea that was f...up during creation. If Windows RT would be first on the market (before iPad with iOS and Android) - no problem. They could do all that and people would still get it... nowadays, whey MS is trying to chase others... I do not really see it happening with Windows 8 RT looking as it is.
It is pretty similar to situation with Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either. In some case is like or a bit worse than iOS in some it is like or a bit worse than Android - but it is not BETTER.
And just look how iPhone and Android phones are selling. look where is manufacturers focus.
Samsung/LG/Sony/HTC - how many Android models and how many WP models?
I got strange felling that W-RT will share the same fate. It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
michiganenginerd said:
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.[/qoute]
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with this... especially that (I hope) with x86 version we will always keep the choice where we want our software to get from.
Looking at the history (of thing in general) I can not remember 1 good exaple where introduction of more and additional restrictions actually worked well. It is against human nature.
If in 10-15 Windows will become completely shut... than Linux (or something else) might raise its head and actually win hearts of customers - like Apple did not so far ago!
michiganenginerd said:
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can not agree! It is bad for every one - even developers as they will be forced to accept any policy and conditions from Microsoft (similar to what it is right now with Apple ).
Limiting the choice is never good for anyone beside "The Man" in control.
michiganenginerd said:
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with recent news that RT will not support other browser but its own, best it is another point against this system.
It looks to me as MS is doing all it actually can to make it bad.
michiganenginerd said:
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY! If all above is true... who is going to get W-RT???
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying, who dont really need it and who will not really use it (will not buy additional apps). Because if they do, if that will think before they buy... W-RT will be the last on the list (unless it will be the cheapest - which I doubt!)
michiganenginerd said:
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only there would be an x86 ver of transformer with no fans to cool it down I would already be on it and this thread would not exist.
I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing something about Windows RT or situation in general.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Short version:
W-RT is not for targeted at You, I, or many xda-readers. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a place or that the option existing is bad.
galtom said:
Heat, Weight, Battery Life!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel is getting closer, but you just can't pull off an iPad size / weight device with 8h+ battery life on x86. The tech isn't there yet.
galtom said:
If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
W-RT is OEM only. It is meant to be an 'appliance' not a PC.
Whether you agree with the approach or not, the justifications for limiting are somewhat explained here:
Microsoft's Windows chief Steven Sinofsky:
If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today's Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ndows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
galtom said:
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Less immediate need to jailbreak it. There are supported methods of sideloading, but I am sure there will be other people who extend it beyond that.
galtom said:
why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe may work for a BYOD company, or Joe is buying for his company.
Joe may be my Father, who would like a tablet device he could do email, netflix, hulu, office, and wireless screencasting.
Some Joe's this will work for, other's it won't. We have to recognize, just because we aren't the target market doesn't mean their isn't one.
Many Joe's will buy an iPad or an Android, some will buy W-RT, some will buy none of the above.
A device that is 300-500 dollars, that comes with a free copy of office, and integrates well with a enterprise, has a market.
galtom said:
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excel, OneNote, PowerPoint and Word are expected to support all of the same Office 15 x86 features.
galtom said:
Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, except in the base security model, and as a feature phone replacement. The phone is massively ahead in terms of sandboxing and enforcing secure practices. It would also be a better phone in terms of ease of use and simplicity for a subset of users. Would I replace my Android with it? no. But that doesn't mean it doesn't do some things well, and that their are users who would find the experience simpler than iPhone or Android when buying their first smartphone.
galtom said:
It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does something have to be an 'iPad Killer' for there to be a place for it? Why is choice a bad thing?
galtom said:
Restrictions .... bad for every one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some consumers the security and curation makes their experience better, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For some developers the market will be better than one not existing, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For most people on this board the restrictions outweigh the upside.
As a developer, while I hate the restrictions Apple and MS impose, I also now have a market to sell to that did not exist 10 years ago.
I will continue to be a proponent of more open options, and an end to restrictions put in place to support a business model rather than architecture or security, but that doesnt' mean that the app store's existance is a net negative on my life.
galtom said:
RT will not support other browser but its own
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. RT will not support other browsers in 'Classic / Desktop' mode.
I think MS should work with major vendors to allow them to deliver 'classic' mode applications on ARM, but this isn't a ban on other browsers, it's a ban on all software that does not run in the sandbox.
galtom said:
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I share concern in this area. I believe that most people who bought netbooks did not get what they expected.
I do think there is a place for these devices for a larger group of users than netbooks had a place for.
But I do think they need to make sure it is sold / marketed in a way that makes it clear what it is, and what it is not.
I will probably get my Father one for Christmas. I probably will not get one of my own. Different users have different needs, hopefully the marketing, sales, and staffs at stores do a better job of directing them.

[Q] Put windows 8 on ipad for free

Hello guys! I have an iPad 2 (I dont know if apple talk is even allowed here) but what I want to do is to install Windows 8 on non-jailbroken iPad 2 with iOS 5.0.1 for free. Spashtops paid offer is unfair since Windows slate users can get it for free. So where do I get win8 for free?

install win8 on ipad2? you're kidding, right?

OptimusLove said:
Hello guys! I have an iPad 2 (I dont know if apple talk is even allowed here) but what I want to do is to install Windows 8 on non-jailbroken iPad 2 with iOS 5.0.1 for free. Spashtops paid offer is unfair since Windows slate users can get it for free. So where do I get win8 for free?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a quick question, what is it you are wanting to do?
im not sure if you quite understand what is going on with Splashtop , your not installing Windows 8, your using a remote VM that's streamed to your ipad.
besides that, Win 8 ARM isn't available to us, its not a retail product, we have no idea how hard it is going to be to rip out the OS and install it on other devices, or indeed if its possible at all
What you could try, and I don't have an ipad so I cant be sure it would work, is use a web service such as logmein,
setup a win 8 desktop somewhere, then install logmein, if your ipad will allow it log on to the logmein service and connect to your Win 8 desktop, technically you now have a crude version of Splashtops product

OptimusLove said:
Hello guys! I have an iPad 2 (I dont know if apple talk is even allowed here) but what I want to do is to install Windows 8 on non-jailbroken iPad 2 with iOS 5.0.1 for free. Spashtops paid offer is unfair since Windows slate users can get it for free. So where do I get win8 for free?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, Apple doesn't even let you transfer any sort of files except media on their devices. Secondly, if you could manage to get something on there using SSH or something, you can't execute it at bootup. This proves yet a impossible thing to install Windows 8 on iPad but who knows? Someone can prove me wrong and put Win 8 on iPad. That would be awesome as I also own a iPad (1st-Gen).

??? how will that work ???
How will that work? I mean Apple and Windows on a machine?

This will never be possible =[

Taimur Akmal said:
First of all, Apple doesn't even let you transfer any sort of files except media on their devices. Secondly, if you could manage to get something on there using SSH or something, you can't execute it at bootup. This proves yet a impossible thing to install Windows 8 on iPad but who knows? Someone can prove me wrong and put Win 8 on iPad. That would be awesome as I also own a iPad (1st-Gen).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention that iBoot is very particular about what it downloads during recovery.
Cogixo: it's possible with both Mac and Windows PCs, Bootcamp and Hackintoshing (respectively). But on Apple's ARM based tablet? Probably not (in fact, definitely not going to be too possible)
Sent from my LS-LS670 using XDA

Kabayan, it is possible but the hardware is not compatible, you have been seeing windows 8 running on iPad but it was a remote session, using ipad to control another PC running windows 8. AFAIK, there was no single project being produced installing windows 8 in iPad. Splashtop's tool is being used to connect an iPad to a Windows 8 PC, making an illusion of running windows 8 on ipad.
there are windows 8-based tablets in the market now(samsung, ehem) amd windows 7-based tablets can also accommodate windows 8.
if you have enough funds, you can commission few programmers to make a hacked wiindows 8 pc(arm version is better) to make the sources of it compatible to iPad.

junpeikawada said:
Kabayan, it is possible but the hardware is not compatible, you have been seeing windows 8 running on iPad but it was a remote session, using ipad to control another PC running windows 8. AFAIK, there was no single project being produced installing windows 8 in iPad. Splashtop's tool is being used to connect an iPad to a Windows 8 PC, making an illusion of running windows 8 on ipad.
there are windows 8-based tablets in the market now(samsung, ehem) amd windows 7-based tablets can also accommodate windows 8.
if you have enough funds, you can commission few programmers to make a hacked wiindows 8 pc(arm version is better) to make the sources of it compatible to iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had to explain the same thing to my friend who switched from iOS to Android and asked me why he couldn't use Java when "cloud browse for iOS could". Had to explain to him that all he was seeing was a Linux system shunting the images from the java site to his iPod.
Sent from my LS-LS670 using XDA

:laugh: this is kind of joke.... :laugh:

hA....... Jobs is rolling over in his grave. Do some people think first? I'm gonna have to use this one at work.....
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

bzmotoninja83 said:
hA....... Jobs is rolling over in his grave. Do some people think first? I'm gonna have to use this one at work.....
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the idea of Steve jobs perpetually rolling around and around and around in his grave
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium

androidcues said:
I like the idea of Steve jobs perpetually rolling around and around and around in his grave
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!

If this is possable, I will go to the store and buy a iPad just for this use....
As I am not interested in it for iOS (sorry fanboys)

Put DOS on your macbook. U can really do it for free)

cogixo said:
How will that work? I mean Apple and Windows on a machine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is,questions like this show why the Surface is going to be a trainwreck. Windows on Apple hardware was done. First by some guy with quite a bit of talent and skill,then by apple themselves. The thing is,most endusers are so clueless they dont realize why this was possible OR why it was difficult.
It was possible of course becuase the newer apple hardware really IS PC hardware with a slightly different EFI firmware. Therefore running windows on it is possible.
The thing is,there are TWO versions of the Surface,and TWO version of windows 8,which are both completely different. One version of the surface is an ARM based tablet,and it runs a special ARM windows. It needs to run special ARM windows software and cant run normal apps. They call it Windows 8 RT. (presumably for RISC Tablet or RISC Technology)
Then there is the Pro version. It runs "real" windows 8,and can run normal windows programs. Its like a PC in a tablet form factor and will use an Intel Atom CPU. It also costs almost twice as much.
This will confuse people. They will go buy the RT tablet,thinking they can run all the WIndows software and be very angry and dissapointed when they find out the expensive tablet they bought is "useless". Microsofts promises of vast amounts of Metro enabled vaporware wont cut it.
Many of those people will probably STILL not understand. They will think that "Windows 8 wont run your old WIndows programs" and not only wont buy Windows 8 for their PC,they wont even buy a new PC becuase they will think that Windows 8 does not run their software. They saw it with their own eyes,and the guy at windows tech support told them that,or at least thats what they THINK they were told,the guy was hard to understand. Those people will be very angry at Microsoft. Macs will get a nice shot in the arm from this,after all,if you have to buy all new software,then Microsofts lost its barrier to people switching. Perception IS reality in this case.
In the end,this wont kill MS or anything,but they will have to spend a fortune to undo the damage. They will have to run commericals to explain the difference. The RT tablets will dissapear not long after they are released. MS will try to salvage the Windows 8 Pro tablet line. That will anger the people that shelled out 600 dollars for a new tablet and te OEMs that are dumb enough to jump on the bandwagon. (Apperantly HP is one such company thats dumb enough)
Thats not getting into the UI. Windows 8 probably works as well as anything else on a tablet,but it sucks on a desktop.
I expect to see the Metro UI dialed back or eliminated in the Windows 9,which should basically be a rebadged version of 8 with Metro turned off and a normal windows desktop. It will probably drop around early to mid 2014. Service pack one will probably make Metro default to off as well,at least for newly installed machines.
The worst thing will be the confusion. There are too many things they are coming out with called "windows 8". My mother cant even figure out how to create a new document and has to call me every time she does it. How is she going to keep "Windows 8 RT on a Surface","Windows 8 on a Surface pro","Windows 8 Home","windows 8 professional","Windows 8 Ultimate" and "Windows 8 Phone" strait. Which one runs what software again? thats the thing,it used to be,if it ran windows,it ran windows software. People understood that. They also came to understand that really old versions of software that ran on older versions of windows might not run on newer computers with their newer versions of windows. (Although they didnt understand why). This is going to be too much for end users to keep track of.
Now for the real question. Is it theoretically possible to put Windows 8 RT,the ARM version on a I-Pad. The answer is,yes,but it wont happen. Apple does not use standard chips like ,say the HP Touchpad. The chipset is different. The drivers wont exist for a i-Pad and its not a trivial thing to write them. Now,tablets like the Touchpad might someday have a custom Windows 8 RT rom for them. Thats becuase they use a qualcom chipset used in dozens of other devices. As such,its quite likely that drivers for the hardware will exist for Windows 8 RT for those tablets. This is how they were able to port Android to the Touchpad. Even that is a huge undertaking. Its almost a year later and its working quite well but its still not finished and many things (like the camera) do not work right.
---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------
DavidinCT said:
If this is possable, I will go to the store and buy a iPad just for this use....
As I am not interested in it for iOS (sorry fanboys)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not a fanboi but I question why you would want Windows 8 RT. Its going to be a disaster. You might as well run webOS. There are two tablets operating systems right now that are successful and then there are the also-rans. The ones no one in their right mind will pay 500 dollars for.
Theres Android,and theres iOS. Thats it. In fact,many android users would rather have a iPad but its too expensive. Thats both good and bad for android. If you look at it one way,maybe 1/3 of Android users are people who would rather have the competitions product but could not afford it. On the other hand,perhaps 1/3 of Android users were potential Apple customers who were swayed by the lower price and better value of Android tablets. Windows RT however is just like WebOS. Its something thats not an iPad,costs as MUCH as an iPad and is not as GOOD as an iPad.
You can beat apple by being as good as an iPad and being far cheaper. You can beat apple by costing as much as an iPad and being far better. However,you cant beat apple by being as good as an iPad and costing as much as one,becuase at the end of the day,Apple has one thing going for it,its product IS an iPad. Thats the one most people want. Microsoft is trying to beat Apple by selling a product that costs as much or more than an iPad,and is not as good as one. (HP tried it too) Now before the fanbois start flaming me,let me say,I dont think Windows 8 RT or WebOS worked nearly as well as Android or iOS,but lets just say they are actually a little better. Thats the thing,they are a little better,but not a lot better,on their own. But then there are apps. The tablet is worthless without apps. WebOS has hardly any. Windows 8 hardly has any. Therefore the iPad and Android are better.
A little better with the promise of some vaporware in the future wont do it. You need apps,and you need them NOW,or you at least have to convince people that you have a winner. You can do it if your just WAY better. But if your just a little better,or the same,or even worse,then no one will make apps,so no one will buy it,so no one will make apps (becuase theres no one to buy them)
Android can compete with iOS becuase for some people,Android is better. Its more open. For others,the closed nature of the iPad is "better". Windows 8RT however has all the disadvantages of iOS with none of the benefits.

pflatlyne said:
The thing is,questions like this show why the Surface is going to be a trainwreck. Windows on Apple hardware was done. First by some guy with quite a bit of talent and skill,then by apple themselves. The thing is,most endusers are so clueless they dont realize why this was possible OR why it was difficult.
It was possible of course becuase the newer apple hardware really IS PC hardware with a slightly different EFI firmware. Therefore running windows on it is possible.
The thing is,there are TWO versions of the Surface,and TWO version of windows 8,which are both completely different. One version of the surface is an ARM based tablet,and it runs a special ARM windows. It needs to run special ARM windows software and cant run normal apps. They call it Windows 8 RT. (presumably for RISC Tablet or RISC Technology)
Then there is the Pro version. It runs "real" windows 8,and can run normal windows programs. Its like a PC in a tablet form factor and will use an Intel Atom CPU. It also costs almost twice as much.
This will confuse people. They will go buy the RT tablet,thinking they can run all the WIndows software and be very angry and dissapointed when they find out the expensive tablet they bought is "useless". Microsofts promises of vast amounts of Metro enabled vaporware wont cut it.
Many of those people will probably STILL not understand. They will think that "Windows 8 wont run your old WIndows programs" and not only wont buy Windows 8 for their PC,they wont even buy a new PC becuase they will think that Windows 8 does not run their software. They saw it with their own eyes,and the guy at windows tech support told them that,or at least thats what they THINK they were told,the guy was hard to understand. Those people will be very angry at Microsoft. Macs will get a nice shot in the arm from this,after all,if you have to buy all new software,then Microsofts lost its barrier to people switching. Perception IS reality in this case.
In the end,this wont kill MS or anything,but they will have to spend a fortune to undo the damage. They will have to run commericals to explain the difference. The RT tablets will dissapear not long after they are released. MS will try to salvage the Windows 8 Pro tablet line. That will anger the people that shelled out 600 dollars for a new tablet and te OEMs that are dumb enough to jump on the bandwagon. (Apperantly HP is one such company thats dumb enough)
Thats not getting into the UI. Windows 8 probably works as well as anything else on a tablet,but it sucks on a desktop.
I expect to see the Metro UI dialed back or eliminated in the Windows 9,which should basically be a rebadged version of 8 with Metro turned off and a normal windows desktop. It will probably drop around early to mid 2014. Service pack one will probably make Metro default to off as well,at least for newly installed machines.
The worst thing will be the confusion. There are too many things they are coming out with called "windows 8". My mother cant even figure out how to create a new document and has to call me every time she does it. How is she going to keep "Windows 8 RT on a Surface","Windows 8 on a Surface pro","Windows 8 Home","windows 8 professional","Windows 8 Ultimate" and "Windows 8 Phone" strait. Which one runs what software again? thats the thing,it used to be,if it ran windows,it ran windows software. People understood that. They also came to understand that really old versions of software that ran on older versions of windows might not run on newer computers with their newer versions of windows. (Although they didnt understand why). This is going to be too much for end users to keep track of.
Now for the real question. Is it theoretically possible to put Windows 8 RT,the ARM version on a I-Pad. The answer is,yes,but it wont happen. Apple does not use standard chips like ,say the HP Touchpad. The chipset is different. The drivers wont exist for a i-Pad and its not a trivial thing to write them. Now,tablets like the Touchpad might someday have a custom Windows 8 RT rom for them. Thats becuase they use a qualcom chipset used in dozens of other devices. As such,its quite likely that drivers for the hardware will exist for Windows 8 RT for those tablets. This is how they were able to port Android to the Touchpad. Even that is a huge undertaking. Its almost a year later and its working quite well but its still not finished and many things (like the camera) do not work right.
---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------
Im not a fanboi but I question why you would want Windows 8 RT. Its going to be a disaster. You might as well run webOS. There are two tablets operating systems right now that are successful and then there are the also-rans. The ones no one in their right mind will pay 500 dollars for.
Theres Android,and theres iOS. Thats it. In fact,many android users would rather have a iPad but its too expensive. Thats both good and bad for android. If you look at it one way,maybe 1/3 of Android users are people who would rather have the competitions product but could not afford it. On the other hand,perhaps 1/3 of Android users were potential Apple customers who were swayed by the lower price and better value of Android tablets. Windows RT however is just like WebOS. Its something thats not an iPad,costs as MUCH as an iPad and is not as GOOD as an iPad.
You can beat apple by being as good as an iPad and being far cheaper. You can beat apple by costing as much as an iPad and being far better. However,you cant beat apple by being as good as an iPad and costing as much as one,becuase at the end of the day,Apple has one thing going for it,its product IS an iPad. Thats the one most people want. Microsoft is trying to beat Apple by selling a product that costs as much or more than an iPad,and is not as good as one. (HP tried it too) Now before the fanbois start flaming me,let me say,I dont think Windows 8 RT or WebOS worked nearly as well as Android or iOS,but lets just say they are actually a little better. Thats the thing,they are a little better,but not a lot better,on their own. But then there are apps. The tablet is worthless without apps. WebOS has hardly any. Windows 8 hardly has any. Therefore the iPad and Android are better.
A little better with the promise of some vaporware in the future wont do it. You need apps,and you need them NOW,or you at least have to convince people that you have a winner. You can do it if your just WAY better. But if your just a little better,or the same,or even worse,then no one will make apps,so no one will buy it,so no one will make apps (becuase theres no one to buy them)
Android can compete with iOS becuase for some people,Android is better. Its more open. For others,the closed nature of the iPad is "better". Windows 8RT however has all the disadvantages of iOS with none of the benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While there is quite a lot of misinformation in your post, as I don't have a laptop at the minute, I'll only point out a few.
One, your using "vaporware" to describe metro apps on a system currently in active development. This is like you releasing a program currently in development and people calling it vaporware during it's beta release because there's no plugins "yet". Metro applications do exist and are growing in number.
Two, Microsoft has stated many times that RT would not run standard windows applications and I'm sure that will be in the advertising for the surface RT as well. Metro has enough apps for your causal tablet user. If casual joe wants standard windows applications, he'll buy a Surface Pro.
Three, Microsoft stated that Windows 8 was not going to have so many editions in this release. Not to mention that Windows 8 on a Surface Pro and RT (and probably WP8) will run the same Metro applications. Windows 8 on a surface pro will run the same applications as the normal computer.
Four, Microsoft is probably not going to scrap Metro. They've got enough of a user base on Windows 8 (since Developers Preview) to have enough information about metro. IMHO, if there was to be any inclination to scrap metro, we would've seen it in Release Preview with an on/off switch. Besides, they've put so much work into the interface and making that interface unified across their services and software.
As I said, I would write more if it weren't for the fact that I'm currently in the process of a move and my laptop's charger died on me.
No offense is meant by my post here, just thought I'd clear up some confusion that you seem to have.
Sent from my LG-LS670 using XDA

pflatlyne said:
The thing is,questions like this show why the Surface is going to be a trainwreck. Windows on Apple hardware was done. First by some guy with quite a bit of talent and skill,then by apple themselves. The thing is,most endusers are so clueless they dont realize why this was possible OR why it was difficult.
It was possible of course becuase the newer apple hardware really IS PC hardware with a slightly different EFI firmware. Therefore running windows on it is possible.
The thing is,there are TWO versions of the Surface,and TWO version of windows 8,which are both completely different. One version of the surface is an ARM based tablet,and it runs a special ARM windows. It needs to run special ARM windows software and cant run normal apps. They call it Windows 8 RT. (presumably for RISC Tablet or RISC Technology)
Then there is the Pro version. It runs "real" windows 8,and can run normal windows programs. Its like a PC in a tablet form factor and will use an Intel Atom CPU. It also costs almost twice as much.
This will confuse people. They will go buy the RT tablet,thinking they can run all the WIndows software and be very angry and dissapointed when they find out the expensive tablet they bought is "useless". Microsofts promises of vast amounts of Metro enabled vaporware wont cut it.
Many of those people will probably STILL not understand. They will think that "Windows 8 wont run your old WIndows programs" and not only wont buy Windows 8 for their PC,they wont even buy a new PC becuase they will think that Windows 8 does not run their software. They saw it with their own eyes,and the guy at windows tech support told them that,or at least thats what they THINK they were told,the guy was hard to understand. Those people will be very angry at Microsoft. Macs will get a nice shot in the arm from this,after all,if you have to buy all new software,then Microsofts lost its barrier to people switching. Perception IS reality in this case.
In the end,this wont kill MS or anything,but they will have to spend a fortune to undo the damage. They will have to run commericals to explain the difference. The RT tablets will dissapear not long after they are released. MS will try to salvage the Windows 8 Pro tablet line. That will anger the people that shelled out 600 dollars for a new tablet and te OEMs that are dumb enough to jump on the bandwagon. (Apperantly HP is one such company thats dumb enough)
Thats not getting into the UI. Windows 8 probably works as well as anything else on a tablet,but it sucks on a desktop.
I expect to see the Metro UI dialed back or eliminated in the Windows 9,which should basically be a rebadged version of 8 with Metro turned off and a normal windows desktop. It will probably drop around early to mid 2014. Service pack one will probably make Metro default to off as well,at least for newly installed machines.
The worst thing will be the confusion. There are too many things they are coming out with called "windows 8". My mother cant even figure out how to create a new document and has to call me every time she does it. How is she going to keep "Windows 8 RT on a Surface","Windows 8 on a Surface pro","Windows 8 Home","windows 8 professional","Windows 8 Ultimate" and "Windows 8 Phone" strait. Which one runs what software again? thats the thing,it used to be,if it ran windows,it ran windows software. People understood that. They also came to understand that really old versions of software that ran on older versions of windows might not run on newer computers with their newer versions of windows. (Although they didnt understand why). This is going to be too much for end users to keep track of.
Now for the real question. Is it theoretically possible to put Windows 8 RT,the ARM version on a I-Pad. The answer is,yes,but it wont happen. Apple does not use standard chips like ,say the HP Touchpad. The chipset is different. The drivers wont exist for a i-Pad and its not a trivial thing to write them. Now,tablets like the Touchpad might someday have a custom Windows 8 RT rom for them. Thats becuase they use a qualcom chipset used in dozens of other devices. As such,its quite likely that drivers for the hardware will exist for Windows 8 RT for those tablets. This is how they were able to port Android to the Touchpad. Even that is a huge undertaking. Its almost a year later and its working quite well but its still not finished and many things (like the camera) do not work right.
---------- Post added at 04:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 AM ----------
Im not a fanboi but I question why you would want Windows 8 RT. Its going to be a disaster. You might as well run webOS. There are two tablets operating systems right now that are successful and then there are the also-rans. The ones no one in their right mind will pay 500 dollars for.
Theres Android,and theres iOS. Thats it. In fact,many android users would rather have a iPad but its too expensive. Thats both good and bad for android. If you look at it one way,maybe 1/3 of Android users are people who would rather have the competitions product but could not afford it. On the other hand,perhaps 1/3 of Android users were potential Apple customers who were swayed by the lower price and better value of Android tablets. Windows RT however is just like WebOS. Its something thats not an iPad,costs as MUCH as an iPad and is not as GOOD as an iPad.
You can beat apple by being as good as an iPad and being far cheaper. You can beat apple by costing as much as an iPad and being far better. However,you cant beat apple by being as good as an iPad and costing as much as one,becuase at the end of the day,Apple has one thing going for it,its product IS an iPad. Thats the one most people want. Microsoft is trying to beat Apple by selling a product that costs as much or more than an iPad,and is not as good as one. (HP tried it too) Now before the fanbois start flaming me,let me say,I dont think Windows 8 RT or WebOS worked nearly as well as Android or iOS,but lets just say they are actually a little better. Thats the thing,they are a little better,but not a lot better,on their own. But then there are apps. The tablet is worthless without apps. WebOS has hardly any. Windows 8 hardly has any. Therefore the iPad and Android are better.
A little better with the promise of some vaporware in the future wont do it. You need apps,and you need them NOW,or you at least have to convince people that you have a winner. You can do it if your just WAY better. But if your just a little better,or the same,or even worse,then no one will make apps,so no one will buy it,so no one will make apps (becuase theres no one to buy them)
Android can compete with iOS becuase for some people,Android is better. Its more open. For others,the closed nature of the iPad is "better". Windows 8RT however has all the disadvantages of iOS with none of the benefits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i disagree with you completely, just cause something has changed doesnt mean it is bad, metro is an amazing UI for both touch and keyboard and mouse, sure it takes some getting use to but it will always be like that and i dont think you have even tried windows 8, the windows store already has a bunch of metro apps and the os isnt even released as a final product yet. as for windows rt, i feel that will succeed because it is enough for average joe blow to browse the web and play some small games, and even if you need to run pc programs, im 100% sure there will be emulation for x86/x64 programs whether its native or its from a third party company like vmware.
tbh you are being a fanboy so please dont lie to yourself by saying you're not, you're comparing an unreleased os to a failed os because webos doesnt have any apps and windows 8 doesnt have many in its current state and on top of that, you're defending current tablet os's at every chance you get just because they have more apps
heck the reason you NEED an app to do something on ios and android is because you cant do much with the built in apps, have you tried using facebook's desktop site on your android tablet, the experience is terrible, nothing clicks right, you cant hover over drop menus, ect. while on IE10 everything works the way it should, it doesnt freezee or try to click something behind a drop menu, everything just works
and yes i am being a fanboy, windows 8 is the future for mobile computing, especially when there are going to be so many hybrid laptop tablets coming out in the near future, windows 8 would have done what the ipad and android tabs have failed to do, kill the laptop

I agree with you completely pflatlyne, though as previously stated there are many inaccuracies in your post.
One thing I want to point out that hasn't been already corrected: the SurfacePro will run an x64 inter i-Core series CPU, not an Atom

mtmerrick said:
I agree with you completely pflatlyne, though as previously stated there are many inaccuracies in your post.
One thing I want to point out that hasn't been already corrected: the SurfacePro will run an x64 inter i-Core series CPU, not an Atom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but it could do, future Atoms will be developed and improved uppon, there is no technically reason Win8 Pro wont run on an Atom or an i7!
infact id put money it there being mid level devices released some time after the initial release to fill the void between ARM and i5 although in saying that there is apparently only 10w difference between the two so perhaps new i3s will become the new Atom ultra low watt SKUs