Database Users

[Q] Windows 8 arm

Hey i have a question like when is the win 8 arm gonna come im tired of waiting already or is it possible to run any other microsoft os on acer iconia tab a500, or can you run win xp with qemu or something like that please help me really need it. thanks for all

aivashc said:
Hey i have a question like when is the win 8 arm gonna come im tired of waiting already or is it possible to run any other microsoft os on acer iconia tab a500, or can you run win xp with qemu or something like that please help me really need it. thanks for all
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Click to collapse
Nobody really knows when or.. now IF it will come.
Microsoft seems to be hitting issues with and there is not much news in this lately. Somewhere i read is to not expect it until mid 2013 if ever..
NO as far as running any windows os on the iconia. What ever qemu is. if thats a emulator i never seen one to work correctly..so its unlikely and if so would be very slow and buggy..
Sell your A 500.. GET A W500.. i have considered trying to trade mine..
ANYONE INTERESTED .

You can use an app like Splashtop to mirror what your home PC is doing. It will look like it's running Windows...

You can use some Win 8 wallpaper and replicate a Metro look
You can even change the Force Close message to "This program has ended unexpectedly...." AKA Exception Error, AKA General Protection Fault.

ive had this conversation so many times its not even funny.
Mainly, forget about it.
Chances are virtually nonexistant you'll be able to buy windows 8 ARM. Even if there was a way to legally port it, which there isn't, it'd still require a whole new set of drivers (which would be incredibly hard to create) and a proprietary, closed source pre-boot environmentwhich would need to bbe illegally modified to make the os run.
Its pretty much impossible without Microsoft helping, which you know they won't do.
And I also feel it nessarry to point out that you won't be able to run windows x86 programs on windows 8 arm, making it a largely useless platform - you only have access to metro apps, and/or windows phone 7 apps. Stay with android, you'll thank me later.

Android rom on windows hardware . CAN I PLEASE..
Can i install the update .zip .. rom from my tablet to my Windows 7 AMD FUSION Cpu notebook..
can i can i can iiiii can i please....

Windows 8 requirements to battle fragmentation:
http://uk.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleWeb3.aspx?regionid=4&articleid=1911699

Tegra 2 can run Windows 8 !
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/01/tegra-2-cameos-at-ballmer-ces-keynote-with-windows-on-arm-demo/

@akram_1 - Your 2nd link refers to the Jan 2011, presentation at CES where MS talked about running Win 8 on a Tegra 2 Tablet but it got no further and as Erica Renee said in post above yours, the whole idea of that setup bit the dust during 2011 when MS decided to quietly back away from the idea.
In Jan 2012 again at CES, MS Windows Chief Marketing Officer demonstrated Win 8 on ARM but this was on a special one off unit using the Tegra 3 chip and Metro.
So please don't hold your breath waiting for Win 8 on ARM running on the A500 otherwise you'll end up in the Guiness Book of Records as the "A500 owner with the bluest face and least detectable pulse rate".

Windows 8 on ARM? Absolutely
Windows 8 on the A500? Highly unlikely
Apparently there will be Windows 8 tablets coming out by the holiday shopping season. If any device will be able to natively run either Android or Windows (or even both in a dual-boot environment), it would most likely be on a device designed and marketed for Windows. In fact, now that I think about it, Android 5 (Jellybean?) will be expected around the same time. Seeing how Android has matured over the last few years, I expect this next version to blow us away. With any hopeful wishing, some tablet manufacturers may release the same hardware built to run both Windows and Android and sell them side-by-side. For example, a hypothetical Acer A900 and W900 would be exactly the same hardware, only difference being the OS, in which case they might just name such a tablet the T900A and T900W. Of course, this is just speculation. Also, I'm expecting a lot of these next-gen tablets to copy the design of the Transformer and Transformer Prime. These tablets will ship with a dock, and the UI will change according to how it's being used. In tablet mode, it will be in the Metro UI, then switch to a more familiar Windows UI when docked. If the hardware is being used interchangeably between Windows and Android, maybe Jellybean will feature different UI's based on which mode is being used. Take Cornerstone for example. Speculation once again, but this is what I'd like to see.
But yeah, as far as Windows on the A500... keep dreaming

Better luch if MS makes a tablet with a arm processor and some no decides to port it. Then you would have wp7 or whatever version they call it. I think right now that is the best you could hope for.

I agree with the above for the most part. I do belive Microsoft under estimated the efforts they would need to put into getting windows to run On arm.When and well If They do get a releasable product
(1) It will surely have one of the 3 fallowing problems . It will maybe run windows LIKE!!! programs And suck battery life.(BAD BAD AND A FAIL)
(2) It will Run windows Program like But be so Huge because of the extra batteries it will be to heavy to be useable.(Like the Current win 7 tabs.To big or no battery life.) This to would BE A BIG FAT FAIL.
(3) It will be a extension of the win phone operating system. The one that people complain about and toss and run back to android. Closed SOURCE very little development for it. Few but expensive apps.. WELL NOTHING MORE TO SAY BUT..
THIS TO IS A Near FAIL . They are huge and bulky or die Quickly..
I have 3 friends that have them. and pack charger and spair battery with them all the time..
The above are what i have been reading all over the web in one form or another..I also think there is something going on in the background behind peoples back.. I THINK LOCKING Devices to the installed OS will eventually be a non flash-able rom chip. with a secondary rom to incorporate updates and fixes to the first.. This would make devices obsolete much Quicker. Its becoming harder and harder for developers to break the boot loaders on these devices.
THE BOOT LOADER and its magic .. i feel is the reason acer has not release ICS. AND I BELIEVE THEY WILL NOT UNTIL THE FIX THIS
Just my Opinion. from what i have read over the last few months . There should be a international Protest NOt TO ACER OR ASUS or samsung .. BUT TO THE WORLD MANUFACTURERS. To get a law to disallow them to lock down NON CONTRACT DEVICES....

will w8 do better than android??

i read somewhere that w8 has the potential of outselling android in the future.. what do you all think?

I think it is very probable that it will do better then android as google has not done very well at least compared to apple in the tablet area. wp8 is touch focused and is a very good OS and google and apple should be very worried.

leftspeaker2000 said:
wp8 is touch focused and is a very good OS and google and apple should be very worried.
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i think your on to something ere

All 3 companies are very good at stealing each others ideas so I doubt any of them will suffer much from Windows 8. Fundamentaly all 3 do the same job, so it comes down too personal preference, with that I should say Mac fans wont buy Windows 8 and nor will Android Fans or visa versa. Windows 8 simply allows Microsoft to play with the other boys in the Tablet field. I don't believe its the killer blow that will knock the others out of the ring.

I don't think it's going to do better than android, but it's going to gobble up a large portion of the market. WindowsPhone 8 is going to have support for MicroSD cards, native code and multi core processors, which all point to it being better than both iOS and Android. I'm honestly considering skipping the SGS3 and waiting for a Windows Phone "Apollo" phone instead.
WP7 is already the fastest OS of the three, and with support for even faster and better hardware, it's going to be just lightning quick.
Exciting times ahead!

m0nkf1sh said:
All 3 companies are very good at stealing each others ideas so I doubt any of them will suffer much from Windows 8. Fundamentaly all 3 do the same job, so it comes down too personal preference, with that I should say Mac fans wont buy Windows 8 and nor will Android Fans or visa versa. Windows 8 simply allows Microsoft to play with the other boys in the Tablet field. I don't believe its the killer blow that will knock the others out of the ring.
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I don't agree so much with this. I'm a Mac and I own an Android phone.
I guess it is down to appreciating the software engineering side of things.
I love how my Mac "just works", however do not appreciate the way iOS devices seem to only be designed for children who need the restrictions and wouldn't do much else than play games, read, learn, etc.
I also appreciate Android devices for the freedom and endless opportunities.
Windows 8... It is pretty cool, however, I'd rather not a tablet that is prone to PC viruses AND locked to only the one OS. Apple are also guilty with the whole "locked to one OS" philosophy.
Then again, the Linux kernel is my preference over the bloated one from Microsoft.

Leigh Kennedy said:
I don't agree so much with this. I'm a Mac and I own an Android phone.
I guess it is down to appreciating the software engineering side of things.
I love how my Mac "just works", however do not appreciate the way iOS devices seem to only be designed for children who need the restrictions and wouldn't do much else than play games, read, learn, etc.
I also appreciate Android devices for the freedom and endless opportunities.
Windows 8... It is pretty cool, however, I'd rather not a tablet that is prone to PC viruses AND locked to only the one OS. Apple are also guilty with the whole "locked to one OS" philosophy.
Then again, the Linux kernel is my preference over the bloated one from Microsoft.
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It would be nice to stop insulting people who prefer efficiency more than complexity. It's getting old.

I think the Microsoft strategy is starting to show itself and I with with in 18 months there will be more METRO devices than Android and even IOS...
I expect Microsoft to virtually give Windows 8 away for Free or at least very cheaply. This is because of the huge potential to make money from the APP STORE so they don`t need to charge much for the OS itself.
Now Windows 7 sold 400 Million Licences as of July 2011 so by Windows 8 release in say Oct 2012 there could be 600 Million Windows 7 PC`s in use...
If only 50% upgrade to a Windows 8 within six months you could be talking about 300 Million customers for METRO APPS a year from now. That is even before any new PC`s or Tablets are sold.
This could even impact the smartphone sales numbers going forward as Windows Phone 8 is likely to be very similar to Windows 8 thus increasing it`s awareness and familiarity to the average person.
With a potential market of 300 Million + customers ...I expect METRO APPS to look better and be more feature rich than Android and IOS APPS, I think this will help drive the sales of Windows 8 tablet hardware.
A year from now Android will be finished in the tablet game and Apple will have big big competition!!

jerome snail said:
It would be nice to stop insulting people who prefer efficiency more than complexity. It's getting old.
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Click to collapse
Uh... Okay then.
Definitely nowhere near what I was intending to do.
Unless you were trying to troll.
I was only expressing my opinion. If you don't like it then ignore. The whole fanboy thing is getting old.

Future is full of uncertainty, no body had ever thought that Nokia vl have to compete with other companies for selling dr product, there was time when N series was consider as kind of huge status but now we have only two major OS iOS n Android outrunning symbian. So just wait n watch how win8 gets ported to phones n tablets.

Will Windows have something like Rosetta to support millions of existing programs on ARM? no.
I said programs, not apps because most people want Windows as they have a need to run Windows programs. That is why Linux and even Macs are limited in growth. And these programs are huge and hard to port due by developers due to libraries dependencies. Moreover, some of these program are specific for an industry/product and weren't updated for years, but people still need to use them. That is why Vista failed and people still use vulnerable XP, even when Windows 7 is out.
But do people need to have Windows to run apps? No. There is thousands of apps for Android and iPad. And I don't think that number of Metro apps will be greater than for Android at launch. So why anyone would want Windows on arm instead of iPad/Android?

Well android is still an os for mobilephones... It's not made for tablets. W8 will be good on a tablet so i think you are right..

borjeboy said:
Well android is still an os for mobilephones... It's not made for tablets. W8 will be good on a tablet so i think you are right..
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Android on a tablet works quite well though.
Yes, I do look forward to seeing how Windows 8 would work, however, the UEFI is what I don't agree with.
Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using XDA Premium

The whole "locking the device to only one OS" is why I won't buy an iPad...
Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using XDA Premium

Leigh Kennedy said:
Then again, the Linux kernel is my preference over the bloated one from Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NT kernel is bloated

I think whoever gets the first mid-range tablet out at the right price point will win. This is total opinion, but my gut tells me the magic number for price is the $200-$300 dollar range for a mass market tablet. Saw glimpses of this during the HP Touchpad fire sale and the Kindle Fire before the user complaints of the device started coming in.
This needs to be a full featured tablet and not the ones that feel watered down that are currently offered at this price range. I think Android has the advantage but w8 could do well if they can offer something that is less clunky and can really nail the backward compatibility of x86 programs.

A serious Question for us Android tablet users!

Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
As being a previous loyal android user, i found myself quite moved and worried about the rumours regarding Windows 8 tablet taking over the market leaving android tablets to die, upon hearing this i asked myself if is this really possible?? Because if it is then what will become of my transformer after a year? For which to buy i had sold my old laptop.
Please leave your ideas and opinions so that this discussion can be carried on.

alizafar said:
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
As being a previous loyal android user, i found myself quite moved and worried about the rumours regarding Windows 8 tablet taking over the market leaving android tablets to die, upon hearing this i asked myself if is this really possible?? Because if it is then what will become of my transformer after a year? For which to buy i had sold my old laptop
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Click to collapse
In a year your tablet will be three maybe four generations old and lacking. That said it will be exactly what it is today. Awesome.
Windows 8 sucks. It won't take anything over.. garbage.

I haven't tried Windows 8 on a tablet, but I did try the free preview on a desktop. I am terribly ashamed to admit it.
I installed it on a computer that I don't use as a daily driver and I disconnected the ethernet to keep things relatively safe. Truly, this is more cautious than when I knowingly put viruses on my computer to test out my virus scanner. No joke. After I burned the installation DVD, I wrote "Caution! Windows 8" on it so that I wouldn't install it, thinking it was a linux distro that I wanted to play around with.
At any rate, Windows 8 is a joke. The UI is terrible and it's just a ploy to take your information. It reminds me of Vista and how that was a flop that they turned into Windows 7. Did anyone see the project Mohave videos?. Navigation is not intuitive and the tiles and charms bar are a mess. It's really the stuff that was leftover and fell on the floor. Take all the stuff that iOS and Android never used because it sucked and bam! Windows 8!
In the interest of disclosure, I dislike Windows and Microsoft products in general.

Good Question
This is a good question, and one I thought about myself. Honestly I don't think it would be hard for Windows to overtake Android tablets, Amazon did it with the kindel. I love my transformer and the OP it has basically replaced my laptop in a lot of ways. But honestly, up to this point I haven't seen anything that would suggest Google can compete well against Windows Amazon or Apple. The update process on Android is ridiculous, and developer support although improving is lacking. Google won't put some sort of QC process and organization on the market so tablet specific apps are hard to find. All of these things are off putting to casual consumers and usually why they choose other OS's. That said, all this can be improved and I think Android tablets will sell more but until then I'm keeping my eye on Windows 8. If they can offer me the same functionality with usb ports, user upgraded memory at a resonable price I might consider a Windows tablet.

I also have the Win8 Consumer Preview installed.
It is an interesting blend of a traditional OS and a tablet OS, but it is still not going to take over Android IMO.
There is still a lot of unknowns. Even if Windows tablets take off, the low powered Tegra variety will probably have issues running full software (like Office) since it is designed for x86 and x64 processors. I know the Atom processors struggled with this for a while.
In general, I will be sticking with Windows 7 because the metro UI is not what I want in a desktop OS. Even for a tablet OS, I still prefer Android.

alizafar said:
Hi All
I am new to the Android tablet world, just bought my transformer yesterday actually, rooted it and tweaked the **** out of it
on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably should have asked this question the day before yesterday.

I wouldn't rule out Microsoft, I have Windows 8 running on an Acer W500 tablet and although it is not quite ready for prime time, the fact that I can run Office 10, surf any site I want, etc. makes it pretty darn useful compared to Android or iOs. It's almost like iOS has the perfect consumption device for people who are just going to surf a bit and do some light stuff, while Windows 8 could handle that plus serious business stuff. I worry about Android's survival because of the lack of control by Google. Between vendors fighting to see who can put out the cheapest tablet, phone carriers and vendors modifying the heck out of it to "differentiate" themselves, and the inability to predict when or if a particular unit will get an update I can't see too many regular people picking an Android tablet compared to iOS or WIndows 8. By the way, that doesn't apply to the people on this forum who are by definition people who enjoy tinkering with their tablets, but if you start talking to the vast majority of the population about rooting, adb, etc. their eyes will glass over. A small vocal minority makes for a neat foruum experience, but it doesn't keep an operating system alive.

I honestly don't see how windows 8 will capture the hearts of the public with the tiles instead of icons. Icons have become so popular because they take advantage of people's natural ability to recognize shapes and patterns at a glance. With tiles, everything looks the same at a glance. I tried out windows 8 and I very quickly found myself having to concentrate more just to see which tile belong to what app. It was annoying as hell.

I tried wp7 and i must say it feels the same as it looks, blocky as hell and windows 8 looks the same. I love android because i can customize it, install whatever i want, root it, flash it, is fast, lots of updates, innovations etc.
I <3 windows on my pc, but <3 Android on my mobile devices and i think it will remain like that for a long time.

I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.

gee one said:
Take all the stuff that iOS and Android never used because it sucked and bam! Windows 8!
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Bwahahahahahaha!!!! Good one!

If windows 8 tablets run on an x86 platform then you'll be able to run all windows apps including games on it so I could see them taking a chunk out of the existing laptop/tablet market.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

I love my Android tablet but it can't totally replace a PC yet. I've been thinking about the ASUS Eee Slate for a while. Price and the fact that Windows 7 is not really tablet optimized has held me back (plus my dismal experience with ASUS RMA's didn't help much). A well made tablet with a tablet optimized OS and a Wacom stylus interests me. I draw and need an office program to do schoolwork.

bbedward said:
If windows 8 tablets run on an x86 platform then you'll be able to run all windows apps including games on it...
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is perhaps the most commonly held misconception out there.
---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------
letsgophillyingeneral said:
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not, I'm very excited about windows 8. I really am. My gripe with it is for some unfathomable reason they decided to use tiles instead of icons. This one thing will turn most people away.

I think Tweaked hit it on the head.
With nVidia's announced product schedule, one year will bring about huge changes in the tablet market. I don't think you have to worry about Windows 8, but if the huge juggernaut that is the iPad is not killing us right now, then Windows 8 can do absolutely no harm.

Google isn't going to let Android die. It's Google. What Windows 8 will do is bring more competition into the market, which is always a good thing for us consumers.
What will eventually become obsolete are phones and tablets with hardware that can't support Windows 8 or Google's new Android.

Android, and even iOS, are specifically written for a mobile platform.
They are designed to be energy efficient, work with reasonably priced hardware (OK, maybe not in the iOS case) and were built from the ground up for this purpose.
Microsoft is trying to make their desktop environment fit on a tablet.
It was not designed for the mobile platform, not even talking about the interface, I'm talking about efficiency and lack of bloat.
In order to maintain their compatibility they have to add a lot of (in most cases) unnecessary bloat for the few people that may require it.
I'm not bashing Microsoft, I'm just saying the can't shoe-horn their desktop OS on a mobile device and expect it to compete with devices that were specifically designed for the mobile space.

I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to, but from what I've seen and heard it has a horrible interface that makes desktop use a horrible experience. The interface looks like it will be useful on a tablet but Microsoft has come too late into the tablet game and will have to bust their asses to catch up. All their apps for their ARM version has to be rewritten from the ground up so they essentially don't have any apps available compared to Android and iOS which have hundreds of thousands of apps available, the x86 version may have more success since they don't have to completely change everything. Although they do have a lot of work ahead of them because apparently they're ditching .NET and using a new language which developers have to learn, here's the kicker the development tools aren't even finished yet!
I don't think we have a lot to worry about considering that the iPad hasn't killed the Android tablet yet. I think a lot of people are going to get Windows 8 and see how much of a clusterfuck it is and wish they had never spent the money on it. Windows has always been a dirty OS that requires Anti-Virus and Anti-Malware software to keep it usable, do you really want to have to use that stuff on your tablet also? I guess we'll have to see how it pans out. I think its going to be a miserable failure just like their phones are. It's their last ditch effort to stay relevant in the changing PC market.
Sent from my Transformer using Tapatalk

brando56894 said:
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to, but from what I've seen and heard it has a horrible interface that makes desktop use a horrible experience. The interface looks like it will be useful on a tablet but Microsoft has come too late into the tablet game and will have to bust their asses to catch up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
umm what? Windows 8 does have the standard Windows interface. Metro is basically an overlay GUI. You can turn it on and off.

brando56894 said:
I think Windows 8 is going to fail miserably in the desktop market. I haven't tried it yet because I don't care to,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stopped right there. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you start an argument off like that?
If you had played with one of the early Windows 8 builds, whether it be the Dev Editition or the Consumer Preview, you would've quickly realized that Windows 8 provides the same exact desktop experience as Windows 7 / Vista.
Like I said earlier in the thread:
letsgophillyingeneral said:
I find it hilarious that people are bashing Windows 8 so much. Reminds me of the Win7 beta and RC days.
EDIT: It also reminds me of the jump from Office 2003 to Office 2007/2010. Or jumping from XP to Win7. Familiarity can be a *****; change is good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

[Q] Few general questions - before I buy tablet now

Hi (sorry for length of the post!),
I am on the verge of getting new tablet.
I have good, old iPad 1 but unfortunately it is more toy than tool.
I have decided that device like Transformer (hybrid tablet/laptop) would be perfect for what I do. Till few days ago I was all set to wait for such a device with Win8 on-board... but now I am not so sure anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to help me make a good choice.
Currently during day I use at least two PC's with Win7 (and Windows Live services) + Google Chrome and iPad.
As much as I like iPad I hate that it can not sync (in full) like two PC's and especially Chrome (not to mention the lack of keyboard).
Because as I wrote I use Live services I was thinking that by the end of the year I should get a Windows Phone device (few of the things I need to know about WP are here, can you help? : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1643996), Win8 for desktop and tablet with Win8 onboard.
From what I read Win8 will be much more "closed" when compared to prev. vers of Windows.
Questions are:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
All insights are welcome!

Sry, didn't have the time to answer all of your questions but hopefully some parts will be clearer in some minutes ^^
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
4.) If Google is willing to release Chrome for Windows 8 RT (the ARM version), you will be able to install it on all your W8 devices. But you could buy a x86 tablet and the desktop version of Chrome will run.
So, have to go...
Some last words: Tablets with x86 are just like a desktop pc for win7 with a touchscreen, a new look and feel and in one little case

galtom said:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps. So an ARM version will force you unless you: Have a developer account, Are on a Domain, or Use an items signed by a trusted cert provider and make some registry settings.
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
galtom said:
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
galtom said:
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
galtom said:
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
galtom said:
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 yes. Metro requires an App. I use this today on Windows 8.
galtom said:
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 is completely open. ARM is restricted to things that install on ARM, and in most cases to things that are acquired through the METRO store (except for the exceptions listed in item 1
galtom said:
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.

most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too

First of all thank you all for your time (and answers).
Since (as usual) answers to questions raise new questions... we... here we go
hanswurst24 said:
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I am not so sure... and I think even for MS "all this" might be a problem.
On one hand they should not change "philosophy" of Windows because no one would swap Win7 to Win8 if they would have to buy all software form 1 (or few) stores only).
On the other hand Windows Phone is showing the way they want to/would like to go (which company would not want to make extra cash on apps the way Apple, Google and Amazon are doing??? - to find balance will not be easy).
All this shows (in my opinion) another problem - system fragmentation. Only iOS is safe as Apple has full control over system and devices (but THANK GOD - is not that stubborn on geo/market restrictions as Google or Ms).
If you remember how confusing for customers it was with Vista and Win7 versions imagine what will happen now?
To be honest (if those versions RT and x86) will differ so much in terms of practicability, options, openness, functions of hardware I cant imagine how everything will be introduced, market and advertised in order for "Mr Average Joe" to comprehend and not run back next day to the shop with complaints - about system, software, compatibility, etc...
Looks like a pure nightmare and I think this is the reason (they do not know what to do exactly with all this mess) we have so little information on how it all is going to work and c0-work with each other :-(
2). You see... as far as I know if I would buy Windows Phone (or RT Win8 tablet - by the end of the year) I will be limited to apps available only in my location. If Live ID is assigned to UK than forget (even free!) apps for US market (and others). In my case it is a disaster... For my pleasure and entertainment I use apps (on iOS and Android [if I can find them - it is way more difficult than on iOS] from UK, US and Poland.
Installing Netflix or BBC iPlayer on a dive form other parts of the world on iOS is very simple and does not require any hacking/rooting/jaibrakes/etc/.
On Android one has to know how to root the device and than simply search the net... not alwys finding what he/she wants.
On Windows Phone if you create new Live ID (like on iOS), switching those equals HARD RESET of the device.
If that will be the case with Win8 RT... that is a very bad news! Even if x86 ver will have less restrisctions those news will be bad for ARM manufacturers as they will get like "handicapped" system when compared to x86... - would you be happy about it if you were Nvidia or Qualcomm?
hanswurst24 said:
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it will, maybe it will not... question are:
- will it at all?
- how difficult it will be to install (root? bootloader? other restrictions? unauthorized software when compared to what your Live ID has bought from the shop?)
- how many AVERAGE people will want to go into all this mess?
michiganenginerd said:
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... if there will DESKTOP mode on Win8 RT don't you think it will limit its general appeal. If it will be so restricted, without desktop mode... why would you want it over Android?
michiganenginerd said:
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you are right... this move from MS would mean that hardly anyone will buy ARM version of the system -> ARM devices with Win8 will not sell. If that would be the case what would be the point for ARM ver of Win8 in first place if no sane manufacturer would invest money to produce devices that can not compete with x86 devices because of system they have. Unless they are very, VERY cheap (looking at cost of Android devices is not making me hopeful in this matter) or if people do not much care for the system but for batt. life - again why would you want Win8 over Android or (well established) iOS. It is worth to remember that it will be even more difficult to win customers who already own Android or iOS device - there is a good chance that they have spend quite a lot of cash so far on apps.
QUESTION (off topic): if you got iOS, purchased apps are assigned to account, not device -> meaning if you buy an app for iPad 1 you can still use it on iPad3. How dose it work on Windows Phone and Android devices?
michiganenginerd said:
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proxy/VPN is not a problem - problem is in Live ID that is assigned to a specific country during creation and registration. In this case your IP does not matter. It is the same with Google Play. Once you have your Google account you can connect to the store form any location but it will not allow you ti install software not in your market (even if you can see it).
michiganenginerd said:
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if it will be so difficult with getting those apps it might influence sales and opinions outside of the US.
It looks to me that if only manufacturers of x86 devices will resolve problem with heating and active cooling (which imho have no please on tablet or hybrid laptop) it will be the only ver of Win8 that will make sense to buy.
Shame, as I would love to have "all this freedom" on an ARM device - I do not need computing power on mobile device but I also do not want to be limited in what I can install and from where/who.
michiganenginerd said:
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happens now 9on x86 Win8) if you try to add shortcut to Chrome on Metro UI? It dose not shows... or what?
If so, you mean you can lunch any software from desktop but not from metro screen? Does not make much sense... does it?
I understand that a "Metro app" will be easier to use and more touch friendly that current range of apps designed for mouse but still... it should be my choice. If I want to use it let me start it from any interface.
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering buying now something like TF Prime or TF 300 - it might do what I need. And with some outside help (perhaps from here) beside usual stuff I should be able to get VPN client, Hulu +, Netflix and BBC on it. I am not worried about text editors as there should be quite few of those that will work with docx files and skydrive and hotmail.
And if Win8 will be a hit (I already bought Vista on a first day of sale - never again the same mistake! ) than I will consider getting it for my desktop and perhaps swapping a hybrid mobile device.
Does it make sense?
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what I wrote above .
dazza9075 said:
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I see your points, but...
It is still long wait for Win8, devices, decent reviews, all the hype and prices to settle and actual (physical) choice in the shop. I remember all the hype about competition to iPad 1 when it came out - it took almost a over year for devices to get to shops (remember CES and MWC in 2010 and 2011) - it is 2012 and not all devices are here.
How long it took Xoom to get to shops outside USA...?
Although Win8 (RT as well???) will go on sale after holidays... time for actual devices with the system (laptops, ultrabooks, netbooks, desktops, all in one PC's, tablets and hybrid tablets [have I missed anything?]) to get to the shop is a whole different story.
Meaning.... if it will take another (at least) 6-8 months to have an actual choice in the shops is it worth to wait and suffer in the mean time? But if I do get a TF300/Prime now - will I need a Win8 replacement for it?

sounds like you already made your mind up what you want to do and that Win 8 will not be as good as we think.
So perhaps save yourself to hassle and don't bother with it.
As for buying now that's up to you, but Win 8 wont be that long, hardware will be out soon and if you don't want that new hardware the older stuff will be a lot cheaper. 8 months after launch is way to far down the line, MS will be bending OEMs over backwards to get hardware out for launch.
You would be completely Bonkers buying now, we are about to get an RC of win 8, ARM will be getting developed in parallel, OEMs will have hardware taped out already to test the OS, which is something Apple doesn't have to worry too much about as they build the OS and hardware around one another where as Windows needs to support it all hence the longer development cycle and early gear in the wild
IF you get something now, there is no guarantee it will work or work well with Win RT or x86, so yes, potentially you will need to get new gear, and of course Win RT is OEM only meaning you can only get it with hardware soo.... you choice I guess.

As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
galtom said:
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
You have two types of devices: Windows & Windows RT
You have two types of applications: Metro & Classic
RT devices are low power tablets running metro only.
Windows devices are likely to be ultrabooks, convertible laptops, and desktops running what they run today.
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Not letting Diablo II & HALO run on Windows RT isn't just an arbitrary restriction. It won't run. It wasn't written, compiled, and tested on an ARM architecture.
galtom said:
Restrictions / curation:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
galtom said:
Flash Support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
galtom said:
Why would I buy Win8 RT over android if it is restricted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
galtom said:
It is still long wait for Win8 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.

michiganenginerd said:
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is true but only to a point.
At the moment I think I will give ICS on Asus TF a try and byt the end of the year if x86 tablets with W8 will get good reviews I think I will jump the ship.
My concern (I had Asus 1201n with Atom 330 onboard and have Samsung NC10) is performance of current Atom chips - is it really better (forget about watching smooth YT video on NC10 - and it is not a problem on iPad!).
Heat! - cant have tablet with active cooling system.
Weight! - the likes of current fliptop netbook/tablets its just not nice (heavy and hot).
Battery life - 8h is a must (basically x86 W8 tablet [with a dock] has to be able to work (videos, internet, e-mail - nothing very heavy) to work 1 day
michiganenginerd said:
Originally Posted by galtom
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not exactly what I have asked or at least not what I meant.
It is clear from me that x86 and ARM are two different platforms and I have never, ever expected old software to work on ARM devices.
But! If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT? If someone wants to create an ARM app that will support both modes, if users will want to use it...? Why not let us have the option to do so.
Second is the limitation of the sources of the software.
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is. But since iOS i way ahead of Windows and there is lots of Android devices on the market I can not see this as a PLUS point for W-RT, quite opposite.
W-RT (and devices with this system) will have to compete with:
- iOS: that is well marketed, well known, still cool, less restricted (no problem in swapping iTunes accounts), people already spend cash on software for their iPads, there is Office for iOS + lots of other business & entertainment software - why would current Apple customers ditch iPads?
Why would and iOS device owner said - OOO, another closed and restricted enviromet just looking different - I want it! - somehow I do not see that happening
- Android: envelope of openness that surrounds Android, no problem with root, community support, ROMS, apps from Google (or from wherever you want), probably a bit lower prices of devices, as iOS (in most cases) works with all Microsoft services + points as in iOS - folks have already spent cash on software, some devices are already in second or third generation
- Windows 8 x86 it has everything W-RT has + lots of more. Beats iOS and Android in terms of software availability, it is basically what you now have on desktop and laptop but with the proper support for touch (when you need it), if Intel&Friends will solve problems of weight/heat/battery life and price range will not be as for current line of Windows tablets it looks like a winner to me.
Having said (wrote) all that - why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things :-(
+ Office for iOS should be here any moment (I thought it is already out). As much as MS would love to ignore iOS and keep Office out of iPAD I do not think they can. how many millions devices is already out there? If only 25% of those people would want one of Office products... its quite a lot of cash...
+ to all points above - there is also a question of price of the software for all platforms and system itself.
What's more, considering how big profit Apple is making on iPad it seems as lots of room for price adjustment once Windows8 & RT devices are out.
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite true, but since I miss this sort of functionality every day (and I doubt I am only one) why not go for TF300 or TF Prime now?
There is nothing wrong with those devices and when I look at ICS and what RT will bring to table I do not see any reasonable points that would convince me to wait (that was the reason I wrote here - to see I my line of thinking is correct. So far (unfortunately for W-RT) you have not wrote that I am wrong or that I have misunderstood something about Windows RT.
The only thing worth considering are devices with x86 Windows onboard but:
- its still few months (in the mean time I could give ICS a try?
- they are unknown in terms of battery/heat/weight and price!
Windows RT seems like a great idea that was f...up during creation. If Windows RT would be first on the market (before iPad with iOS and Android) - no problem. They could do all that and people would still get it... nowadays, whey MS is trying to chase others... I do not really see it happening with Windows 8 RT looking as it is.
It is pretty similar to situation with Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either. In some case is like or a bit worse than iOS in some it is like or a bit worse than Android - but it is not BETTER.
And just look how iPhone and Android phones are selling. look where is manufacturers focus.
Samsung/LG/Sony/HTC - how many Android models and how many WP models?
I got strange felling that W-RT will share the same fate. It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
michiganenginerd said:
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.[/qoute]
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with this... especially that (I hope) with x86 version we will always keep the choice where we want our software to get from.
Looking at the history (of thing in general) I can not remember 1 good exaple where introduction of more and additional restrictions actually worked well. It is against human nature.
If in 10-15 Windows will become completely shut... than Linux (or something else) might raise its head and actually win hearts of customers - like Apple did not so far ago!
michiganenginerd said:
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can not agree! It is bad for every one - even developers as they will be forced to accept any policy and conditions from Microsoft (similar to what it is right now with Apple ).
Limiting the choice is never good for anyone beside "The Man" in control.
michiganenginerd said:
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with recent news that RT will not support other browser but its own, best it is another point against this system.
It looks to me as MS is doing all it actually can to make it bad.
michiganenginerd said:
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY! If all above is true... who is going to get W-RT???
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying, who dont really need it and who will not really use it (will not buy additional apps). Because if they do, if that will think before they buy... W-RT will be the last on the list (unless it will be the cheapest - which I doubt!)
michiganenginerd said:
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only there would be an x86 ver of transformer with no fans to cool it down I would already be on it and this thread would not exist.
I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing something about Windows RT or situation in general.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Short version:
W-RT is not for targeted at You, I, or many xda-readers. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a place or that the option existing is bad.
galtom said:
Heat, Weight, Battery Life!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel is getting closer, but you just can't pull off an iPad size / weight device with 8h+ battery life on x86. The tech isn't there yet.
galtom said:
If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
W-RT is OEM only. It is meant to be an 'appliance' not a PC.
Whether you agree with the approach or not, the justifications for limiting are somewhat explained here:
Microsoft's Windows chief Steven Sinofsky:
If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today's Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ndows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
galtom said:
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Less immediate need to jailbreak it. There are supported methods of sideloading, but I am sure there will be other people who extend it beyond that.
galtom said:
why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe may work for a BYOD company, or Joe is buying for his company.
Joe may be my Father, who would like a tablet device he could do email, netflix, hulu, office, and wireless screencasting.
Some Joe's this will work for, other's it won't. We have to recognize, just because we aren't the target market doesn't mean their isn't one.
Many Joe's will buy an iPad or an Android, some will buy W-RT, some will buy none of the above.
A device that is 300-500 dollars, that comes with a free copy of office, and integrates well with a enterprise, has a market.
galtom said:
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excel, OneNote, PowerPoint and Word are expected to support all of the same Office 15 x86 features.
galtom said:
Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, except in the base security model, and as a feature phone replacement. The phone is massively ahead in terms of sandboxing and enforcing secure practices. It would also be a better phone in terms of ease of use and simplicity for a subset of users. Would I replace my Android with it? no. But that doesn't mean it doesn't do some things well, and that their are users who would find the experience simpler than iPhone or Android when buying their first smartphone.
galtom said:
It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does something have to be an 'iPad Killer' for there to be a place for it? Why is choice a bad thing?
galtom said:
Restrictions .... bad for every one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For some consumers the security and curation makes their experience better, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For some developers the market will be better than one not existing, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For most people on this board the restrictions outweigh the upside.
As a developer, while I hate the restrictions Apple and MS impose, I also now have a market to sell to that did not exist 10 years ago.
I will continue to be a proponent of more open options, and an end to restrictions put in place to support a business model rather than architecture or security, but that doesnt' mean that the app store's existance is a net negative on my life.
galtom said:
RT will not support other browser but its own
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. RT will not support other browsers in 'Classic / Desktop' mode.
I think MS should work with major vendors to allow them to deliver 'classic' mode applications on ARM, but this isn't a ban on other browsers, it's a ban on all software that does not run in the sandbox.
galtom said:
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I share concern in this area. I believe that most people who bought netbooks did not get what they expected.
I do think there is a place for these devices for a larger group of users than netbooks had a place for.
But I do think they need to make sure it is sold / marketed in a way that makes it clear what it is, and what it is not.
I will probably get my Father one for Christmas. I probably will not get one of my own. Different users have different needs, hopefully the marketing, sales, and staffs at stores do a better job of directing them.

Windows 7 or 8 which...

In all honesty who recommends windows 8 over windows 7 laptop?
Sent from my VM670 using Xparent Pink Tapatalk 2

No one
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda premium
---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------
I've got it on my desktop...Im not impressed. It would be good on a tablet but for a pc, eh...
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda premium

I would go for it. Running windows 8 on my laptop and there are no downsides once you get used to the new interface.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

Who:
Gamers. It uses less system resources. Plus there are some decent games available in the Win8 store.
Anybody using multi-monitor systems; it has a bunch of cool new features for multi-mon.
Developers. If you want to write apps for the Windows Store, you have to be using Win8.
People buying very low-end PCs (see above comment about resources).
Anybody using virtualization (Client Hyper-V is awesome).
Anybody who wants to take advantage of Storage Spaces or other new Win8 features.
Anybody who wants their settings to sync automatically across their PCs (Windows account signin).
There are plenty of other advantages to Win8...

GoodDayToDie said:
Who:
Anybody using virtualization (Client Hyper-V is awesome).
There are plenty of other advantages to Win8...
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Click to collapse
OK found a disadvantage (not really a disadvantage to the OS because it's a new, optional feature). On my computer, enabling hyper-v from windows setup locks the cpu to its max frequency, wasting the battery. Also, it breaks virtualbox so I can't boot guest os'es from there. Apparently, this only happens to Intel chips. So Hyper-V is really only worth it if you are only hosting Windows guests and 1) have an amd cpu or 2) have a desktop computer
Also, the new interface eats hdd space like crazy. Hdd usage has continuously been growing with each Windows release, but storage costs have been decreasing even faster, so it is a largely irrelevant issue, except that 1) windows 8 is meant to be used on low-capacity mobile devices, and 2) the advent of SSDs has led many users to replace their traditional HDDs with them, which leads to less storage space and a greater cost per gigabyte. Do not expect to run Windows 8 on a 32gb or smaller SSD unless the computer is going to be an Internet + Office device (as many $1500+ college student MacBooks become, ironically).

ganggreen30 said:
In all honesty who recommends windows 8 over windows 7 laptop?
Sent from my VM670 using Xparent Pink Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
people who know what their talking about. Get it, learn it, you won't regret it.
Sent from my Samsung Focus S using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

ganggreen30 said:
In all honesty who recommends windows 8 over windows 7 laptop?
Sent from my VM670 using Xparent Pink Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me. I have it on 2 laptops, a netbook, a tablet and a desktop.

Considering that you can activate Windows 7 with Windows 8 key, it only makes sense to get Windows 8 devices now. If you hate it, just get a Windows 7 installer and downgrade.

One that has too much free time to offer support after the purchase is being made.

My thought is - the upgrade to Win8 is only a matter of time (unless you abandon Windows for Linux or MacOS - or wait 4 years for Win9).
Honestly, I'm not a "get on the cutting edge" kind of guy most of the time, but I did upgrade one of my servers simply to support WinRT dev and Remote Apps. I have to say I like Win8. I kinda like the desktop mode better than Win7, and some of the new features are really nice.
Upgrades are cheap now. $40 for a legit upgrade to Win8 Pro if you do it before Jan 31. I plan to upgrade all of my stuff before then.

I have it on my gaming rig, and I love it now. Took me some time to get used to the interface. Now I have tons of custom tiles for my steam games. Also, some games run better. I'm getting straight fps boosts in most cases.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium

I'd recommend it any day, I use it for my desktop and its great, the only time I use metro is when I use a metro app, some people are just over reacting to the whole new menu it really isn't that bad. I admit it that I would use the metro more if I had a touch screen as its made for that purpose but even with mouse it works quite good. Multiple monitors work great with it too
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

JihadSquad said:
OK found a disadvantage (not really a disadvantage to the OS because it's a new, optional feature). On my computer, enabling hyper-v from windows setup locks the cpu to its max frequency, wasting the battery. Also, it breaks virtualbox so I can't boot guest os'es from there. Apparently, this only happens to Intel chips. So Hyper-V is really only worth it if you are only hosting Windows guests and 1) have an amd cpu or 2) have a desktop computer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It also breaks the Netflix app.

>the upgrade to Win8 is only a matter of time
Not really. I'm looking some sales info that's starting to roll in for Black Friday, and Win8 and associated hardware sales look like a major bust, worse than Vista. This of course goes double for WinRT and Surface RT. You can get some of the same indications by Googling (not Binging, heh) on "windows 8" sales black friday.
Some think that no matter how bad the adoption, Win8 will still succeed by virtue of being on every new PC. Again, not really. People are delaying their PC buys (and buying tablets instead), and Win7 is still an option.
All this isn't news to early adopters. Win8 has been in use among techies for a whole year, and we all know its fortes and foibles. We always knew that public adoption of Metro UI on the desktop (and laptop) was problematic. The overpricing on Win8 laptops/hybrids only made it worse. Interest in Win8 desktops and tablets is minimal.
My best guess is that as a short-term fix, MS will release a SP to allow boot-to-desktop and putting back the Start button, effectively cleaving Metro out for the desktop crowd. This will need to happen soon, some time in spring, if there's to be any chance of salvaging Win8. IMO, Win8's rep is already irreparably damaged, and it'll be up to Blue to leave the stigma behind with a fall 2013 release.
For those still on the fence, my advice is don't bother with Win8. There'll be a "fixed" version coming, whether a SP or a Win9 coming down the pike, and whatever investment you make to transition to Win8 will be wasted, as you'll have to do it again. I say this as a Win8 user.
Now you know the real reason why Sinofsky is gone. If Win8 was a success like Win7, he'd still be around. But it doesn't take a whole quarter of sales to see whether Win8 flies or dies, and by this time MS should have ample data for sales projection.

e.mote said:
>the upgrade to Win8 is only a matter of time
Not really. I'm looking some sales info that's starting to roll in for Black Friday, and Win8 and associated hardware sales look like a major bust, worse than Vista. This of course goes double for WinRT and Surface RT. You can get some of the same indications by Googling (not Binging, heh) on "windows 8" sales black friday.
Some think that no matter how bad the adoption, Win8 will still succeed by virtue of being on every new PC. Again, not really. People are delaying their PC buys (and buying tablets instead), and Win7 is still an option.
All this isn't news to early adopters. Win8 has been in use among techies for a whole year, and we all know its fortes and foibles. We always knew that public adoption of Metro UI on the desktop (and laptop) was problematic. The overpricing on Win8 laptops/hybrids only made it worse. Interest in Win8 desktops and tablets is minimal.
My best guess is that as a short-term fix, MS will release a SP to allow boot-to-desktop and putting back the Start button, effectively cleaving Metro out for the desktop crowd. This will need to happen soon, some time in spring, if there's to be any chance of salvaging Win8. IMO, Win8's rep is already irreparably damaged, and it'll be up to Blue to leave the stigma behind with a fall 2013 release.
For those still on the fence, my advice is don't bother with Win8. There'll be a "fixed" version coming, whether a SP or a Win9 coming down the pike, and whatever investment you make to transition to Win8 will be wasted, as you'll have to do it again. I say this as a Win8 user.
Now you know the real reason why Sinofsky is gone. If Win8 was a success like Win7, he'd still be around. But it doesn't take a whole quarter of sales to see whether Win8 flies or dies, and by this time MS should have ample data for sales projection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, 8 hasn't "taken off" but the sales are on par with 7, and the launch sales were pretty significantly higher than 7.
"Win8 has been in use among techies for a whole year, and we all know its fortes and foibles. We always knew that public adoption of Metro UI on the desktop (and laptop) was problematic."
This is pretty much bull****. Most self proclaimed "techies" who disliked it never even used it- it's all just "I read it was bad from some blogger and hey, let's all jump on the MS is stupid again bandwagon!"
Those that did use it never knew how to properly use it because they went in hating it, never gave a real effort to use it, *****ed about how hard it was and called their crappy self confirmation bias a terrible "experience". Experience my ass. Learning curves are not inherently bad. In fact most *real* "techies", ie server admins and people who can think for themselves, really like what 8 has to offer.
I suspect that a lot of PC gamers don't know what's good for them and hate 8 for no other reason than Gabe Newell hates 8. And you know why he hates 8? If you take what he says at face value, he sounds like an old fart who has used Macs all his life. The real reason is competition- he is worried that 8 might actually catch on and threaten steam sales via the store.
It's so hard to know what the average user actually thinks because the whole damned thing is so steeped in political and other various biases. But you know what I say? Shut your damn mouth. There's no reason to *not* buy 8 now that it's $40, there's nothing but benefits to the system, and all perceived "negative traits" are so easily changed or removed that I'm surprised the lazy assholes who refuse to get 8 because of them haven't died from starvation, being too lazy to stand up and go shove food at their faces.
There's nothing wrong with 8, it's well worth the money- telling people to "not bother" is only going to make a self fulfilling prophecy that does not need to happen.
GOOD DAY, SIR.

>But you know what I say? Shut your damn mouth...I'm surprised the lazy assholes who refuse to get 8 because of them haven't died from starvation, being too lazy to stand up and go shove food at their faces.
.

Zardos66 said:
Also, some games run better. I'm getting straight fps boosts in most cases.
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure they've shown gaming increases to be negligible unless you're running hardware that has conflicts with Win 7 and not Win 8. I wanna say Tom's Hardware did a shootout where they ran the same two machines with Win 7 and Win 8 and showed +/- 2 FPS in all games except one.
Edit: Found the link
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/windows-8-gaming-performance,3331.html
link68759 said:
I suspect that a lot of PC gamers don't know what's good for them and hate 8 for no other reason than Gabe Newell hates 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate is a pretty strong word. I don't hate Windows 8. I do hate the "Modern (Not Metro)" UI, as I feel it sacrifices information density and customization for the sake of aesthetics, which I find to be mostly useless. I don't care if my OS is pretty. I care if it works. I especially don't care if it's designed for a method of input that I not only do not own, but do not plan to purchase.
I've been using Windows my entire life. My first home computer (at 8 years old) had Windows 95. When the local computer store told us that we couldn't install Windows 98 (Not enough RAM), I took the copy home and installed it myself. I skipped 2000 and ME because they were garbage, and bought a new store-built for Windows XP. After the recovery partition got corrupted and HP told me that to get a copy of the discs would cost $60 + shipping, I went out and bought Windows XP Pro. I skipped Vista, because it was garbage, and bought a new Win 7 laptop a week after the launch of the new OS.
With my level of familiarity with the Windows OS I would say that I am a power user. I am equally comfortable on the command line and in the policy editors. With the latest incarnation of the OS Windows has lost me. I now have a laptop that I'm triple booting Win 7 Ult, Win 8 Pro, and Linux Mint Cinnamon, while my main computer (now degraded to file server) is running a bulletproof install of XP that hasn't been reinstalled since late 2004. It'd be on Win 7 ultimate if nVidia didn't buy out ULi and decide that making Vista+ drivers for their RAID hardware was a fruitless endeavor.
I love the fact that they have optimized the underlayings of the operating system. A more efficient registry with a lot of bloat cut out really increases Windows performance, and you can plainly tell in Windows 8. That along with features in Pro that I bought Win 7 Ult for is a big bonus, especially at the $40 price point.
My biggest gripes are touch input. It's a gimmick. I've spent the last 17 years yelling at my parents, coworkers, nieces, nephews, and any other asshole who dared touch my screen and leave their nasty greasy fingerprints on my display device. I don't want to touch my screen. Ever. It's a desktop computer, not a tablet, and requiring me to mimic campy finger gestures with my mouse is annoying. The neon pastel color scheme looks like it came out of My Little Ponie's My First Computer, and not an adult's operating system, and even customizing the colors leaves you with nasty shades. Then there's Windows Explorer. Imagine my frustration when I hit Alt+V and a ****ING RIBBON pops up with my options. I hated Ribbons in Office 2007, hoped they'd be gone in 2010, but at least they made major improvements. Now the same menu that used to be maybe 100 pixels by 100 pixels is expanded to fill up a 600 x 100 pixel space, with no additional functionality.
I feel like Microsoft is telling me that "[I'm] holding it wrong." I always bought Microsoft because of the level of customization I was afforded. Looks like it's finally time to learn Linux.

e.mote said:
>the upgrade to Win8 is only a matter of time
Not really. I'm looking some sales info that's starting to roll in for Black Friday, and Win8 and associated hardware sales look like a major bust, worse than Vista. This of course goes double for WinRT and Surface RT. You can get some of the same indications by Googling (not Binging, heh) on "windows 8" sales black friday.
Some think that no matter how bad the adoption, Win8 will still succeed by virtue of being on every new PC. Again, not really. People are delaying their PC buys (and buying tablets instead), and Win7 is still an option.
All this isn't news to early adopters. Win8 has been in use among techies for a whole year, and we all know its fortes and foibles. We always knew that public adoption of Metro UI on the desktop (and laptop) was problematic. The overpricing on Win8 laptops/hybrids only made it worse. Interest in Win8 desktops and tablets is minimal.
My best guess is that as a short-term fix, MS will release a SP to allow boot-to-desktop and putting back the Start button, effectively cleaving Metro out for the desktop crowd. This will need to happen soon, some time in spring, if there's to be any chance of salvaging Win8. IMO, Win8's rep is already irreparably damaged, and it'll be up to Blue to leave the stigma behind with a fall 2013 release.
For those still on the fence, my advice is don't bother with Win8. There'll be a "fixed" version coming, whether a SP or a Win9 coming down the pike, and whatever investment you make to transition to Win8 will be wasted, as you'll have to do it again. I say this as a Win8 user.
Now you know the real reason why Sinofsky is gone. If Win8 was a success like Win7, he'd still be around. But it doesn't take a whole quarter of sales to see whether Win8 flies or dies, and by this time MS should have ample data for sales projection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, Black Friday is now and has always been a day to offload all the old, **** stock. It is not now, nor has it ever been, about selling the new, current stock.
Microsoft has no interest in going backwards. There is a new SDK that is coming out that will merge Windows and Windows Phone development. In the future you will target screen size and resources, just like in the past. There will not be a desktop/mobile choice like there is now.
When Microsoft releases an update for Windows 8, it will no doubt be to remove MORE of the desktop features and move them to Metro. I already think there are way to many trips to the desktop for RT users to do things like configure keyboard, mouse, network, file management, etc.
No one thinks their computer is easier to use than their phone.

>Hate is a pretty strong word. I don't hate Windows 8.
As said, Win8 is no longer a new thing, having been in available to techies for over a year. We all have our opinions on it by now, and there's no need to justify it to anyone.
>With the latest incarnation of the OS Windows has lost me...I feel like Microsoft is telling me that "[I'm] holding it wrong."
Yes, legacy support was always the Windows mantra, going all the way back to Windows 3.0. It was the major reason that Win95 prevailed over OS/2 (anyone here old enough to remember that far back?) The Windows userbase got thrown under the bus in the rush to adopt mobile. Since Sinofsky was the man in charge, and as imperious as he was, I have little doubt of the culprit. That he's summarily tossed out face-first is a good sign that dumping the desktop may not have been a wise move, thus my expectation for rapproachment with the desktop crowd.
MS has trumpeted the "40 million licenses sold" pretty loudly, and is good fodder for fanboys to rally behind. But those who know the difference between sell-in vs sell-through take the PR spiel with a yawn. Yes, MS claimed the same for "strong" Vista sales vs XP five years ago.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Says-Vista-Sales-Strong/
>Microsoft has no interest in going backwards.
You can only forward if the userbase follows. There is no "going forward" if Win8 flops. Win7 still works just fine, just as XP still works just fine for a large segment of the userbase. Unlike years past where Win is the dominant monopoly, there are now viable choices. The many iPads users have lock-ins to Apple's ecosystem, and buying a Mac is becoming an appealing choice, even moreso if "new" Windows forces a substantial learning curve. Again, I say this as a current Win8 user.
>When Microsoft releases an update for Windows 8, it will no doubt be to remove MORE of the desktop features and move them to Metro.
The fundamental problem with the "Metro uber alles" view is that it can't replace the desktop WIMP metaphor with multiple overlapping windows. Try doing Photoshop, or any heavy-duty productivity applications with a single window (or the 1/4 split window). You can't. To say the desktop will disappear is just plain idiotic.
>No one thinks their computer is easier to use than their phone.
Spoken like a true consumer who only knows how to consume content rather than produce it. If yours were true, then you shouldn't be using Windows, because iOS and Android already have the phone market cornered.
Anyway, we'll know soon enough how Win8 sales go, once the new year rolls around. That's only a month away. Wait and see, yes?

@TheScaryOne: If you think 2000 was crap compared to 98, then you are part of the problem with why a Windows "Power User" is considered a complete joke on whoever would call themselves that. The entire Win9x family, from first release of 95 through to ME, was a complete technological backwater compared to the NT family (which includes 2000). Yes, it used a bunch of hand-tuned assembly code to let it boot up and run quickly on low-RAM systems, but in turn you sacrificed
* stability (soooo many crashes, and it was terrible at recovering from them)
* reliability (no filesystem journaling so data loss or corruption on a crash was common, etc.)
* security (it had *no* support for a permissions system so you couldn't run with anything other than "admin" permissions, and was full of exploitable bugs)
* portability (single-CPU x86 systems only, and low caps on amount of usable RAM and HDD space)
* features (the NT line was, especially back then, the only true "power user" environment).
OK, with that out of the way...
Why are you spending any time in the "metro" environment if you don't like it? Ever since Vista, if you actually use the Start menu with a mouse, you're doing it wrong. Windows key + <first few letters of program name> + Enter. You can be launching a program before Start finishes its load animation.
The ribbon takes up less space than a menu bar + toolbar, or than the Win7 "command bar" used in Explorer, unless you for some reason leave it open all the time. As a "power user" shouldn't you be using keyboard shortcuts and context menus instead of moving your mouse up to the top of the window anyhow? The ribbon is for people who aren't familiar with what a program can do, but want to find things. The keyboard (and to a lesser extend context menus) are for people who already know how to use the system. The old menus are for people who only ever learned a bunch of operations by rote... it may have taken me a whole week to get used to them, back when they first appeared in a pre-release version of what wasn't even yet called Office 2007.
... I could go on, but I'm not sure there's a point. If you want to live in the past and ignore the last half decade of usability improvements to Windows (which I'll admit Metro doesn't count as if you're using a mouse and keyboard, but it's only a very slight downgrade and since you didn't even mention that particular flaw I doubt you're even aware of it; if you use touch it's a *huge* upgrade though), nobody here can stop you. We might laugh and shake our heads, though.