Related
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore. Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis. I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that, and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users. Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special. I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Simply, I absolutely LOVE my Nexus One, but i feel like it is not getting the support it deserves, and i DO NOT want this beautiful piece of technology to be obsolete by september. i hope you guys are with me on this, because i think we all know that this phone could easily be something BETTER than what it is now. and it SHOULD be able to compete with any phone within a year from now because it's Google's baby. GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money. Because, even though i feel like this is the best phone i've ever had, 1) i feel like it'll be obsolete in a few months and 2) im starting to feel like i wasted my money.
long live nexus
+1 .......
The Nexus one will be the standard by which all android phones are measured for at-least another year.
Keeping everything pure AOSP is a huge plus IMO.
Official updates are slow, but code is being committed to the repository regularly and makes it on to the custom ROMS very quickly.
There is no phone out there with better features and community support than the one you have
There is no other phone on google.com/phone... so we are still the only child.
Google is trying to catch up the rest of the android world to 2.1
VZ cut them off it seems from the N1 and instead VZ gets another great Android handset.
Froyo has some much needed upgrades and will help (in theory) android solidify itself by stabilizing the platform for devs.
JIT/Flash/Market /Open GL / market upgrades are on there way if you believe the rumors.
What is it you feel is being phased out ?
Only about 500k users have an N1. Thats a miniscule amount.
Even with that we have two great devs putting out some very stable ROMS. Unlike the past N1 came with so many damn features out of box that we didnt need ROMs and Apps to add the 101 missing features.
Listen I am still up in Googles rectum about alot of features that need to be fixed/enhanced on Android. We all knew N1 was the first of the snapdragons. The others are storming in blasting taking attention away from us...but theyre all on the same team....they all bleed green =-)
Sure Id love to be slapping on Sense widgets , Moto Blur social network apps , etc...but thats up to us as a community to do it (if ever technically possible).
Anyways feel good about your purchase. You still have the best available phone on the market and will until the EVO/Iphone4G drop. And even then..youd still be top 3 at worst.
There isn't much development because there isn't much to do. The Nexus has the latest firmware and top specs. Of announced phones only the Evo and Galaxy S have significantly better specs everything else is just a SLIGHTLY upgraded Nexus. No porting apps or firmwares are needed. The only thing to really do is optimize what we have (cyanogen is doing that) and port sense UI (Paul is doing that). I'm happy with my Nexus .....for now hehe
zach I can understand the complaints about some of the nagging issues the phone has had (3G, purple tint etc.) but two things we have to realize: A majority of the users don't experience these problems, and in no way is our phone going to be obsolete anytime soon.
Here is a post I made regarding the Incredible screen, I think it's relevant here:
jasrups said:
Here's my take:
Would I like to have this screen in my Nexus? Yea it would have been a nice feature. Do I need this screen? No, not in the slightest.. Not yet anyways. The only apps that would require a screen like that are games, and I don't play the type of games on my phone that would require axis-crossing multitouch. I know some people do, and I can respect that but I don't, hence why I don't care about this right now.
Frankly, if you're playing those kinds of games anyways, just get an iPhone (and I'm not saying that in a bad way). iPhone is unmatched when it comes to gameplay and plus you can get them all for free if you jailbreak. Yea The Incredible has a capable screen, but do you know long it's going to take Android to catch up to Apple when it comes to game quality?? Android just got games like Racing Thunder 2 and Homerun Battle 3D while you can play Street Fighter 4 and freaking Grand Theft Auto on the iPhone! It's no competition.. if you want to game, you don't have the right phone.
By the time Android actually starts developing games and apps that can take advantage of the axis crossing MT, The Incredible will be "obsolete" (as some of you like to put it) so no need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch
With most things I normally have a realist perspective and am usually the first to 'hate' on something when its deserved, but alot of you guys are just a bunch of downers. The Incredible is a great phone as is the Nexus, everyone should just appreciate what they have! If you keep chasing the newest technology (no matter how impractical it is) you will never be satisfied!
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There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Regarding the selection of ROMS.. Guys, right now we have the top of the line OS on our phones.. 2.1 is the standard, most of the G1/Magic ROMS are trying to replicate what we already have stock. Believe me, once Froyo and Android 3.0 come out the devs will be right on it and we'll get awesome ports. We have great developers who will make sure our phones have the newest software on our devices.
And if worst comes to worst and some of you decide to sell your Nexus this summer, it will have excellent resale value.
Don't worry, This is the phone Google are actively giving to developers. We'll be here for a while to come yet.
Well
I most definetely do not believe the nexus one will be phased out anytime soon, actually i will be ordering one tonight as a matter of fact. yes we may not have the best touch screens or the greatest rom develipment, but that is because we are still number one There are no other builds to even create until phones of this caliber runnng other os are on the scene. And for the touch screen issue, whe the time comes to where we truely need multitouch for games on the market out nexus's WILL be outdated, or there WILL be a fix for this, i mean geez Cyanogen has nearly finished a fully working Eclair for the g1 already, all i see is hope and excitment for the future of this device, the market also needs some serious time to catch up to apples games (please dont get upset with this, its true) The only thing i can see actually outdating our phones are dual processors capable of OVER 1.5 otherwise i dont believe they will be extinct, not even the 1.3 samsung will hurt the nexus i think considering we can be oc'ed to 1.3 anyways i do believe, or at least close
I don't think that we're being phased out, not until another year. Each phone that comes in the market gets compared to Nexus One.
As far as the development is concerned, its very satisfactory. Comparing the development scene between N1 an iPhone, iPhone sold nearly 50x the units of N1 sold. So most app developers have their focus on iPhone as it stands them a better chance of making more money..... But still development on N1 is much better.....
jasrups said:
:
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
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+1
I’m beginning to think some people have never bought a phone before, or a computer for that matter.
Did people expect the N1 to the absolute top spec phone forever? Seriously its still amazing compared to most, and measures up nicely in all significant ways to these new phones it keeps getting compared to. Stop trying to bury it before its even close to dead.
There is always something newer coming. No exceptions. There are phones in development now that will top the Evo and Incredible. At some point you have to buy something or you’ll wait forever.
The N1 is Google’s flag ship phone. I bought it for that reason. If Google is developing something cool (like FroYo!) its pretty much guaranteed to come to us first. Its not being phased out. I think there are exciting things to come…
You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory
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How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
zachthemaster said:
in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore.
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THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
zachthemaster said:
Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis.
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As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
zachthemaster said:
I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that
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Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
zachthemaster said:
and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
zachthemaster said:
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special.
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If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
zachthemaster said:
I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
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Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
I don't buy it. I don't like the multitouch sensor they used for the phone, and I think the scrolling could be smoother, but what do you really expect from Google? Short of them sending out free hardware upgrades, what are you really looking for to not feel phased out?
The Nexus One is a great phone, at least for me. Even with the multitouch issues, I'm able to pull off running jumps when I play Super Mario World and the like. And that issue is allegedly being worked on with 2.2. If they flat out said the Nexus One wasn't getting 2.2 then you could make the claim of the Nexus One being phased out.
As far as network issues go, I have zero problems with my AT&T Nexus One and 3G. I live in the DC Metro area, for what it's worth. Most problems I've heard from people are all on T-Mobile. Who's to say the problem isn't on T-Mobile's side instead of Google's? Everyone blames AT&T's network for the iPhone's network issues, but it's pretty clear that the radio in the iPhone is garbage.
We live in a time where there are 1ghz processors in handheld devices. Technology is advancing so fast. It's always going to hurt when your $500+ dollar device isn't the best around anymore, but do you really want forward progress to slow down so you feel like you have the best phone longer?
I think you're being overly paranoid, if you ask me. So long as you love the phone, what do you care?
danguyf said:
You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
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I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!
You can't compare the modding/dev community of the N1 to the iPhone anyways.
The iphone has FAR more units out there, and the Apple cult is still buying. The iPhone also has more that is needed as far as mods to make it a nice OS.
The iPhone also runs native binaries, so there seem to be a lot more standard systems written for it, or so I was told in my Q&A thread. The iPhone has full apt packaging system, full set of GNU tools, full OpenSSH suite, etc.
The iPhone also has a lot more core teams of dedicated modders, while Android seems to have 1-2, at least for the N1. This is, again, I think due to the fact that the iPhone needs more mods to make it a good OS.
Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.
Not even boobs can rescue the OP's post.
martin0285 said:
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!
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attn1 said:
Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.
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I agree wholeheartedly with both of you.
zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link these posts?
How is the N1 becoming obsolete? What are your reasons? I have yet to see any indication of this.
updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
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What kind of crap is this? Yes, the N1 has received 1 update. Which is 1 more than MANY other Android phones in YEARS.
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly.
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Here's the Android source code:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Get to work!
GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money
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Give more WHAT?
Enjoy the wave for as long as it lasts... which will be a long time
Tech wise phones go obsolete much faster than a PC ever would for the simple fact that you are in a closed environment. You can't upgrade the RAM, graphics or CPU on one of these things so shelf life is in terms of months not years. But that's not to say that support will go away for the N1 any time soon. OP is just acknowledging/exhibiting the mid-life crisis that the N1 is in currently. It's still the flagship product and a benchmark for every phone slated to be released this year. Next year may be different--hell I'm sure it will be--but for now, we're good and there's enough power that it'll still be viable 2 years from now. If you need a current tangible example, just look at how many G1's there are out there and how long that phone has been out.
I came from the dismally dysfunctional land of the Epix from Samsung where between them and AT&T, they couldn't figure out who was suppose to be doing the obligatory reach-around. With the N1 there are no more worries about the carrier holding up the updates for a fix to a major problem introduced by another fix almost a year prior for an infantile notification issue., there are no more issues with contractual obilgations to corporate partnerships (Yahoo) with draconian imposed restrictions to enforce it(backflip) and mostly there's no more waiting for the mfg to finally update their license to a newer version OS if they even bother going that route to begin with. Open architecture, open software and an infinite amount of potential for old and new phones is why I'm here and I'm sure a bunch of others are too.
So to anyone else reading this and especially to Sprint customers that are waiting for the N1, catch the wave however you want(N1, Evo, etc) but enjoy it for what it is--a long great ride and loads of fun--cowabunga!
Did somebody say boobs? Er, was I supposed to get something else out of this?
I read that the new Motorola Droid X and Droid 2 will have digitally signed bootloaders. Which means that only approved Motorola ROMS can be flashed. I wonder how long it will be before HTC and everyone else starts doing this? This could put an end to all of our fun! Of course the cellular providers will save a lot of money if they don't have to replace all of those bricked phones. It will be interesting to see what happens to the bootloader in future OTA and Froyo updates for the DInc...
this belongs in general
Lexus One said:
This could put an end to all of our fun!
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It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
acezhi said:
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
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Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
Moved as not development.
reagianicparable said:
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
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Possibly. But it takes a hell of a lot longer when you're up against encryption. You usually only win this battle if someone on the inside leaks the key. And by then there are new phones coming out and this keeps getting lower and lower on the priority list. Personally, I don't think we can win the encryption battle...
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
two_cents said:
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
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Granted, HTC *may* never lock their bootloader, but what is to stop Verizon from demanding it? Verizon is permitting it in the Motorola. What if this turns out to be a profit maximizer for them? Could HTC next? Time will tell...
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
What it boils down to is PROFIT. Verizon will weigh the revenues and decide with their pocketbooks. It doesn't make any difference whether HTC likes it or not. Verizon calls the shots. If HTC says no, they're gone. Samsung or LG or someone else will pick up the slack. As for losing customers, it doesn't matter. Money is what matters. Just ask any of our greed driven cellular companies if you don't believe me. Personally, I don't think there are that many people who re-flash their ROMS and would care if the bootloader is locked or not. I think we are a very small percentage of the total.
Honestly77 said:
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
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I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
TNS201 said:
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
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Just adding to it. Not saying petitioning and protesting would work, but:
Petitioning and protesting only work through fear. When it's you > the company, then the company will give in. If we have 20 thousand people say that we want truly open handsets, they still won't, because they know theres another hundred thousand that will still buy it. If they fear that if having a locked handset will make them no sales unless they give in, then they will.
Motorola tried leaving it unlocked with the Driod, but then, for whatever reasons, they locked the bootloader in the X. Why do you suppose Motorola would do this? Do they have incompetent marketing people? Remember they have the numbers...we don't. So we can only guess as to why they chose the way they did. Perhaps Verizon had something to do with it? I can't wait to see what they do to the bootloader in the next OTA for the DI.
Asterdroid said:
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
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I agree with the notion that the vast majority of android users are not interested in rooting their phones; however, i think that the frequency with which carriers replace phones bricked due to customization is overestimated. I mean I have flashed customs ROMs, radios, recovery images, etc. onto my N1 and my DI dozens upon dozens of times and never run into a problem that couldn't be fixed with a battery pull and a restore (at the most). In contrast, I bricked three iphone 3GS's in six months while attempting to customize them. Obviously, apple is notorious for locking their **** down, so I am not convinced that the notion that verizon will have to replace fewer X's than, say, DI's holds water
One Carrier. One device yearly. Multiple updates throughout the year. But one of the best parts, imo, No AT&T control. Apple seems to have complete control. I know a lot of people who really dislike that, but I know even more who are pulling their hair out because they signed a two year contract on a device that may never see Android 2.3. Or by the time it does there will be 20 newer, better and faster devices out with 3.0. It's frustrating when you not only have to wait on Google to produce a newer update, but then you have to wait on the phone manufacturer to produce an update due to their proprietary UI, and then have to wait on the carrier to add their bloatware and restrictions.
These forums are our only way to vent these frustrations. The carrier doesn't care, and the manufacturer doesn't care. They have your name on the dotted line. You are theirs for the next two years if you don't want an ETF.
Why not release stock Android with the option of carrier UI download?
Or at least a system where you can go to stock Android for your device, downloaded directly from Google in an itunes manner if you wanted.
I hear the term "fragmented" a lot these days when people talk about Android. So many devices with so many versions of Android.
I've heard talk of an Android overhaul with 3.0. May'be rumors.
When we do get 2.2, We will go through the whole thing over again for 2.3.
2.3 is already out. It should be made ready for all Android devices that can support it an be available as a download for those devices. At the same time the carriers should be working on their custom UI and have that downloadable ASAP. May'be that's impossible due to the fact that Google doesn't produce these devices, just the base software on them.
Just my rant/questions/vent
I do see your point.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Samsung site is advertising 2.2 froyo for epic?
I never looked at it that way. We definitely wouldn't be that pissed now. Although samsung is slapping us in the face advertising froyo 2.2 for our phones here http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SPH-D700ZKASPR-features
And you are posting this in the forum of a device with a slideout keyboard and 4 inch SAMOLED screen.
Yes I sure would love to be locked into one form factor and system internals.
diego1985 said:
I never looked at it that way. We definitely wouldn't be that pissed now. Although samsung is slapping us in the face advertising froyo 2.2 for our phones here http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SPH-D700ZKASPR-features
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This ish pissis me off...... and I'm in us stuck on unofficial 2.2
Sent from my Samsung epic using XDA App
What device hasn't been upgraded either officially or through custom roms within a year of its release to a newer build of Android? The iPhone gets updates once a year.
Anyone pulling their hair out because their device isn't getting an official port of Android 2.3 is an idiot to begin with. Buy devices that are worthy on their own with current software. Don't hope that you MAY get an update to make it the phone you really want. And if you somehow NEED to get updates because your e-peen just won't be big enough without the latest Android build on your phone, then buy a damn nexus 1 or S.
dakarf said:
And you are posting this in the forum of a device with a slideout keyboard and 4 inch SAMOLED screen.
Yes I sure would love to be locked into one form factor and system internals.
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Just talking about one slice of the Apple, not the whole thing. There is also something good to be said of openness and choice.
There is just so much anger and frustration when it comes to Android and I think a lot of it has to do with manufacturer and carrier control and their decision to keep the consumer out of the loop. Vague and general answers are not much better than no answers at all. The "you'll get it when you get it" attitude some people have, although it's true, does not ease the sense of irritation.
Theres no way cr-apple had the right idea, there while system is flawed right down to one piece of hardware for all. All other things aside, I hate apple hardware period. And everyone having the sandstone except for color is stupid. Android ftw. Open hardware/software ftw. Samoled ftw.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Maybe Froyo will come soon with these changes coming to the website. We know its close.
Sent from my shoe, I mean....Epic shoe... I mean Samsung Epic! http://mobilehighway.blogspot.com/
While maybe apple doesn't have the right idea it sounds like windows phone 7 may have it right. Multiple devices, multiple carriers, multiple form factors, manufacterer controlled updates. Too bad its not as awesome as android yet
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
The thing is its messy right now but once 3.0 comes things will change a lot...why? simple, right now Google is releasing bi-annually..and not waiting for manufacturers to catch up...once 3.0 hits Android will be released once a year...Google will also start working closer with their partners and manufacturers...
In reality I don't think Apple or WP7 has the right idea...simply because right now entered a cell phone age..aka phone specs are jumping every year by a good leap...
Apple has a policy where they upgraded the 3gs and the 3g to version 4 which is nice for average consumers..but at the same time it kinda forces partners to limit themselves to the minimum specs...same will happen with WP7 and their minimum of snapdragons...once dual cores come out and apps take advantage of these, all WP7 devices will be left behind because the apps have to be backwards compatible with the lower specced versions..(now I know they may have implementations of which hardware can use what App..but then both M$ and Apple would be eating their own words of "fragmentation" as they call it)
I can understand how an average consumer would be left out right now..but at same time average consumer does not care much for upgrades as much as we do either...either way past 3.0 it will get a lot better..
apple and windows are limited because thats the way they want it. f*** that. this android is the most universal device ive ever seen. the os is written very well. i like no limits or restrictions to the possibilities other than the hardware. do you really think the next iphone will have a dual core sssshhhhtttt i doubt it. even if it does it will still be slower than this phone ha. google is getting their act together with android because it is in their best interest because they will make way more money off of all the advertising from everytime we search stuff and the info they get from when we use navigation.
Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.
Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.
Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Click to collapse
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.
Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App
ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."
Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.
It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.
J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.
IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV
I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.
Are we headed for at least one more "final" version of Android 2.3 for our Epics officially released by Sprint or not? I know EL30 was largely motivated by the removal of CIQ, but I really can't guess what Sprint is up to with these latest leaks.
Anyway, I'm always so conservative about flashing new ROMs that I figure if we're getting yet another new one soon, I might as well wait.
considering a new leak was posted, I would say yes, another official build is coming. What it is....I'm not fully sure. Our epics went from ignored to full restored very quickly.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
b16flybye said:
considering a new leak was posted, I would say yes, another official build is coming. What it is....I'm not fully sure. Our epics went from ignored to full restored very quickly.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA
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Just what I was thinking, agreed. The wait for Froyo was so agonizing that I remember pessimism we would always remain on Eclair and we'd be abandoned like Samsung's old phones. Quite a long strange trip it's been.
Since there is no major change in the leak maybe they are trying to sneak in some other type of monitoring software to replace CIQ. (Paranoid me)
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
As I look at CM9 on my phone; I wonder what is this gingerbread you all are speaking about?? It seems vaguely familiar like a long distant memory
Yes it is interesting and suspicious we are getting attention.
Perhaps they are scared that their inattention has driven people away from Sprint. Contracts are the bread and butter. Not sure why they would care about CIQ, rooting, or custom ROMs. Infact if they are friendly to us wouldn't that be an attraction?
I fully understand why they cannot support software mods. But I do not see the downside for them being friendly toward it.
Hacked hot spot as well. The carrier controlles are bandwidth and data volume. End of story. Sure they loose some money from not selling that plan, but maybe they keep many more contracts, so they can still come out a head.
labumm said:
Yes it is interesting and suspicious we are getting attention.
Perhaps they are scared that their inattention has driven people away from Sprint. Contracts are the bread and butter. Not sure why they would care about CIQ, rooting, or custom ROMs. Infact if they are friendly to us wouldn't that be an attraction?
I fully understand why they cannot support software mods. But I do not see the downside for them being friendly toward it.
Hacked hot spot as well. The carrier controlles are bandwidth and data volume. End of story. Sure they loose some money from not selling that plan, but maybe they keep many more contracts, so they can still come out a head.
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Click to collapse
We are the 1%, not the 99. They care about the blind sheep paying for every service and not putting on unauthorized software that may seem to cause hardware problems. There are a lot of people that screw up rooting their phones and run to Sprint to fix it. That costs them money as well. From a corporate, bottom-line mentality I can see it. $30 a month is a LOT of money to lose based on the $100 a month plan. I don't agree with it but I can see their point to play devil's advocate. It just takes a few bad apples to ruin the pie if you know what I mean.
I wish we would get an official I.C.S. release from sprint... that would be amazing. I can only dream of all the sweet roms that would emerge with an official ICS source. However, this will never happen. They would rather we get impatient and spend 500.00+ on the new galaxy S2 or similar device. It is not sprints goal to keep us happy, it's their goal to keep us wanting more. For every early upgrade they sell, they make up for the few people that get tired of sprint and switch service. Once we upgrade our phones, it will be the same story all over again. The firmware will grow outdated, sprint will neglect, we upgrade. Most U.S. carriers require 2 year contracts for a new device for a reason... you are likely to grow tired of it before 2 years are up. They make a TON off full price phone purchases. How do i know this? Virgin mobile sells a couple phones sprint carries.....except they are about 2-300 dollars cheaper with no contract signing. It's almost sickening to think about. not really... but you know what I mean. A business has to make money, its the same with every carrier.
I can't imagine all the development work going into these test ROMs without any plans to release a new ROM.
The FB15 leak appears to be a very minor change, with the only new feature being the Sprint Connections Optimizer, which is described as "helps manage and enhance your data experience by finding and connecting to the Sprint 4G Network and remembered wifi networks". There was no hint of an "ICS value pack" as some expected.
There may have been bug fixes in there too, but I didn't notice them.
---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ----------
RealTic said:
I wish we would get an official I.C.S. release from sprint... that would be amazing. I can only dream of all the sweet roms that would emerge with an official ICS source. However, this will never happen. They would rather we get impatient and spend 500.00+ on the new galaxy S2 or similar device. It is not sprints goal to keep us happy, it's their goal to keep us wanting more. For every early upgrade they sell, they make up for the few people that get tired of sprint and switch service. Once we upgrade our phones, it will be the same story all over again. The firmware will grow outdated, sprint will neglect, we upgrade. Most U.S. carriers require 2 year contracts for a new device for a reason... you are likely to grow tired of it before 2 years are up. They make a TON off full price phone purchases. How do i know this? Virgin mobile sells a couple phones sprint carries.....except they are about 2-300 dollars cheaper with no contract signing. It's almost sickening to think about. not really... but you know what I mean. A business has to make money, its the same with every carrier.
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Wow, that's a jaded opinion. Keep in mind this is a mature phone that they are still selling over a year after it was introduced. I'm sure their costs on this phone are pretty low by now. I think if they could shoehorn ICS into the phone it would certainly revive sales of an old phone, I think they would do it if they could. Remember it was Sammy, not Sprint that decided there would be no ICS for the original Galaxy S series. They claimed it just didn't run will enough on the hardware and from what I hear about CM9 (a bit sluggish and a battery hog compared to GB), there may be some truth in those comments. Time will tell whether anyone will get ICS to run smoothly and efficiently on our phones.
poit said:
Wow, that's a jaded opinion. Keep in mind this is a mature phone that they are still selling over a year after it was introduced. I'm sure their costs on this phone are pretty low by now. I think if they could shoehorn ICS into the phone it would certainly revive sales of an old phone, I think they would do it if they could. Remember it was Sammy, not Sprint that decided there would be no ICS for the original Galaxy S series. They claimed it just didn't run will enough on the hardware and from what I hear about CM9 (a bit sluggish and a battery hog compared to GB), there may be some truth in those comments. Time will tell whether anyone will get ICS to run smoothly and efficiently on our phones.
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You have to realize also that the only reason our DEVs got CM9 ICS working is through changing the partition to MTD. BML is Sammy's proprietary partitiion and it seems that to them changing the partition on the older Galaxy S series (probably any of their phones actually) is out off the question. I am sure it would be hell if it was squeezed onto the BML partition.
kennyglass123 said:
You have to realize also that the only reason our DEVs got CM9 ICS working is through changing the partition to MTD. BML is Sammy's proprietary partitiion and it seems that to them changing the partition on the older Galaxy S series (probably any of their phones actually) is out off the question. I am sure it would be hell if it was squeezed onto the BML partition.
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Good point. Seems like doing an OTA update that repartitioned the phone would be a customer service nightmare. I'm guessing that BML could be setup with a larger system partition, but again doing that OTA could be a mess.
changing the system with an ota update, would be an mess. alot phones would be bricked and alot ppl would be calling samsprint with problems. maybe an message to go to their website to get an update like that would be easier. but ppl would still break things.