Database Users

An unusual way to tell the Xoom just might be OK

We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).

kcrudup said:
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
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your point for posting this?

tech support blows and people are stupid

znfrazier said:
your point for posting this?
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Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").

kcrudup said:
Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
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No se. i thought you had a question lol and i read through it like 3 times.. my b :O

>But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience
I think it's more about the mainstreaming of mobile devices. Smartphones will always be hampered by the monthly carrier fees, even as they become more popular. Tabs will be mostly wifi (no fees), and their larger size are more versatile, and thus more appealing.
>IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing.
In the short run, I disagree. Honeycomb is still beta status, and this first crop of Android tabs are premium-priced. In both price/performance and user-experience, the lackluster Android effort only justifies the iPad's frontrunner status.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. Android's quasi-open-source, multi-vendor approach means more competition, which means lower prices. There is already price competition for this first crop; Moto was forced to drop pricing (nominally) even before the Xoom was available for some region.
Lower pricing will be key to any new platform adoption, fragmentation be damned. Use MS Windows as a gauge. In the near future, you will walk into a retail outlet and see the iPad 2 for $500, and a similar Android tab for $300. The Android may be less polished, but it isn't as limited as the Apple toy. More importantly, it's a $200 difference.
How "near" is near? I'd say next year. The mentioned price delta is likely to be achieved this year, but the UX and app repertoire still aren't a sufficient value proposition for Android tabs. It'll take a year.
For the Xoom specifically, there isn't a need to apologize for it per the topic header. How well the Xoom sells is irrelevant to a Xoom owner, since he already bought it. Its hardware is similar enough to others of the Teg2 crop that there'll be 3rd-party support, regardless of official Moto support. To wit: somebody has already used Asus' source to develop SD-slot support for the Xoom.
Buying is an emotional process, and people have a need to justify their choice in the presence of peers, eg buying a Xoom is "good." Rationally speaking, it's irrelevant. You buy something because you want or need it, and you can afford it. That's it. It doesn't matter what others buy or don't buy. Have self-confidence.

When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy." I was getting one as soon as I'd gotten the specs on it, no matter if there were only 5K sold.
(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )

>When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy."
I disagree on that. Moto's premium strategy is ill-advised, since its exclusivity isn't long enough, and its hardware isn't differentiated enough. The rumored sales numbers is a good indication.
This isn't to say that the Xoom is over-priced. While the 3G model has a hefty premium attached, the wifi model is competitive at $600 for 32GB. Moto's mistake is in not leading with the 16GB SKU at the iPad-decreed $500 price point. Hence its "more expensive yet does less" tag.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree)
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.

>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
e.mote said:
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
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Well, not quite. I was here at the office bored working on some other stuff, when I decided to take another look at the board files in our own source 'cause I'd remembered one of the other platforms had more SDHCI channels defined. I figured out what to do about 3 hrs later, and sent BigRushDog and CoolBHO3K a PM telling 'em what I'd had, and it turns out they too had been working on it simultaneously, using the Asus kernel sources as a guide (which I still haven't seen yet, gotta download it in case there's other stuff in there we can use).
Since BRD/CBHO3K have already put kernels out there, I just sent them the GitHub commits I'd done and told them to pick and choose what they'd want to use (IIRC, the mounting stuff in the init scripts).
I'm still running my own stuff too (mostly 'cause our kernels have diverged a bit as I've pulled in more upstream changes, as least as of Sunday).
But hey, SD-Card works now!

A thumb's-up for the effort, and in sharing it with the community.
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.

e.mote said:
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
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Man, you just don't know- I'd sell my firstborn* for the real NVidia Tegra 2 chipset programming manual, and/or the full schematic for the Xoom!
* - as I don't have any kids yet, unless your name is "Rumplestiltskin" I ain't got nothin' to worry about

No love from the Nvidia developer PR rep? OK, clue me in. What does it take to get the Teg250 tech ref? Or do people use OpenMax for Android?

kcrudup said:
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
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Click to collapse
Of course, you have the reverse- i.e., where the "Average Joe" in the Motorola forums is now all over the Moto forums *****ing and moaning endlessly "to Motorola" (they really do believe that forum is special 'cause it's hosted on Moto's site) over lack of SD-Card and LTE upgrade (the latter doesn't exist only 'cause of parts shortages, but the non-tech crowd over there has misinterpreted Jha's "LTE incompatibility" statement and run with it).
It's utterly unreadable over there now, and of course you've got your Wingnut Contingent bleating on about "class action lawsuits" and of course the whole "Never buying Moto again" crowd.

Received a Response from Acer regarding locked bootloader

Good news everyone!
In an earlier thread (the [DEV] Recovery/Config thread), I mentioned that my company has a large corporate account with Acer and I was going to work my contacts to try and contact Acer and bring attention to the bootloader issue.
In my initial message to them, I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being "hostile" to the development community, reputations that the Xoom and the Transformer do not have. Specifically, I stated we needed the kernel source, which they're required to provide per the GPL, and for the bootloader to be unlocked so that we could load custom recovery and images. I told him that several people have stated they have returned the Iconia because it wasnt friendly for development, and that the developers and "power users" in this community have a vested interest in seeing development thrive and seeing the device succeed. I had two contacts with Acer I had hoped would garner a response.
Today, I received a response from one of those contacts, the Senior Product Manager of Notebooks, Tablets and Netbooks for Acer America.
While I can't post his contact information or the full text of his response (he was not empowered to speak publically on behalf of the company), he was able to share a bit of information with me that I can relay.
To summarize:
- Acer is aware of the community's reaction to the locked bootloader and unreleased kernel. They saw what went on with HTC's bootloader fiasco and they are now discussing their policy internally.
- They view the perception of the Iconia in the Android development and enthusiast community as very important.
- While he couldn't give me any specifics, he did reassure me that he is actively working with his team to find how quickly they can address the bootloader/kernel issues with the Iconia and what specific actions they would take.
So they are aware of the issue and they are working to correct it. He gave me both his work and personal contact information and he said he'd keep me posted of updates.
My personal guess is that there is more involved in the decision than just the Acer America team, but at least they're aware of the negative perception and they're taking steps to correct it.
I'll keep you all advised as I find out more, but I'm happy to see progress being made! There's still hope yet.

excellent, I believe there is an open petition thread (in general) that you may want to forward on to him, might give more ammo with the higher ups!
Good work my friend!

That's an encouraging response, kudos to Acer for hiring the guy. Too many times you get the basic canned response that goes something like "we know what we are doing, so suckit and deal with it". And good job, Fumetsu, on what sounds like a well thought out and worded request for info in the first place.
This give me hope that I'll be able to get flash-happy with my A500 in the future, even though I bought it knowing that I would probabaly be getting something else later in the year. Honeycomb just doesn't have all the dev potential that I've seen with my GTab, Nook, and Inspire...... but one can always dream.

Very good news indeed. I just want to be able to use stock Honeycomb, or Ice Cream Sandwich when that's available, without all the 'extra' software and apps that are generally unnecessary. From a business view it seems like they could have saved quite a bit of money and time if they had left the bootloader unlocked in the first place. All they would need to do is host their own update files online for people that want them and leave the rest to the Dev community. Just my thinking anyway. I feel like there is a large enough user base in the Android community that would justify an unlocked bootloader. I guess all we can do is wait and see what happens. =)

Nice. Thanks for your effort. Hope they do listen to Iconia users!!!
Enviado desde mi A500 usando XDA Premium App

Thanks all. Although he was light on specifics it was a very encouraging response. I just hope they move fast, the market is growing rapidly and dev interest can wane for the "next big thing " and Acer can find itself trailing in the market, even if it has better hardware and potential.

nice, let's keep our fingers crossed for this.

i hope that something will happen soon ...

Can you tell him to (cough) leak something (cough)?
I had the Acer Liquid and we used to get leaks like crazy. But nothing for the Iconia

Hello
Very good news, I hope it's not only a commercial response
@+

Where I come from we say:
Those who live in hope dies shi**ing ... :-D
But I also hope that bootloader will finally unlocked
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App

acer driver page updated
On acers driver page they have in the last day or so added some content tabs. A place where os and updates will put available. So I do think they have some plans on atleast giving available to d/load recovery is and updates.I beloved this will come wyen or soon after they begin pushing 3.1 to our devices.everyone has spoken I think now its time tobsee if Acer comes thru.
Keeping gentle and responsible pressure in then not bashing and sending threats is prob best.
Just my two and ¼ pennies. Thanks all in the community
Blonde geeky chic
Erica renee

Pure speculation here... I think that I read somewhere that AT&T will be releasing an Acer Iconia Android a501 tab soon. Could that be why Acer has this policy? After all, AT&T is notorious about this sort of thing. My Atrix and I know this all to well.

My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
2) Market penetration versus market stability. Right now Acer has a product that is readily available. Reviews have been mixed. (I ignore the ones who ***** about weight because 0.2 ounce difference is two quarters and three dimes in weight. Grow a f*cking pair biceps, you wieners.) But CNET and all the other mainstream reviewers claim that an iPad (not iPad II) and the Asus Transformer are the better deals.
But let's be honest about the responses. Sure, iPad is a gimme because it's a hip, cultural thing. Just like telling some kid that Pabst Blue Ribbon beer is **** will not get them to change brands as long as it is perceived to be "cool." So forget the iPad. As for the Transformer? Sure you can have an unlocked bootlader and new snazzy 3.1 roms, but who besides the true fanboy has one of them? They won't have stock until October of this year, and then it will be newer more powerful models coming out. The majority of people have bought a computer (desktop) and a cellphone and that's as far as they go in tech. Sure you have an iPhone but do they really use it for computing and service? They load the apps that their kids told them to. Acer can fill this gap by doing one or two things in the immediate future that could lock them into a top spot: drop the price of A500 by $40 or, work with the telcos to build and ship the next gen, wireless tablet. They are not going to drop the price because the units are selling enough that some bean counter says it competes with the other tablets in the market. But this would be an issue if Asus had their **** together and had the Transformer in plenty of stock.
This is the reason for the locked bootlader. If companies plan to add wireless to the next gen (or rev) tablets, they will get a lot of attention from the telcos. The phone companies do not, I repeat, do not want unlimited broadband connectivity. These are the same people who still charge for cell-phone texts. Why? Because they can and they know people will go over limits. Limits and exceeding them rack in the dollars. And they have millions of dollars set aside to keep their limits (profits rolling in).
If the broadband wireless next version of the Acer is different enough in Honeycomb 3.1 than the A500, then they might release an unlocked profile for the small group of XDA developers and those that read this forum. For the general population (and the large amount of sales), telcos want locked systems so that metered broadband is the norm. But if there is any way of porting and unlocked A500 to the wireless model, I don't think they'll do it. Also, it shows good faith to the telcos that they are already in step with them about creating limits on the user base. The phone companies will show favor to locked systems over the others. And that's the second choice Acer already made.

look here and join as much as possibile!
http://www.facebook.com/?m2w#!/home.php?sk=group_149462058455870&ap=1
Cross the finger me too...

The_Monkey_King said:
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
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Hello!
Just to clarify, I didn't bash the Iconia or Acer itself, only that it is perceived as "hostile" to 3rd party developers. I actually took that "hostile" quote directly from a developer on these boards and compared development efforts with the Xoom and the Transformer. I made sure to stress that we have a vested interest in the success of 3rd party development on the Acer so that its perception as developer friendly in the community could be improved.
My initial contact and his response were cordial and respectful, so I don't believe he took it this way. I structured my contact with him stating that I felt the Iconia was a great product, had benefits the other Android tablets do not, has the distinction as of now being the fastest selling Android Honeycomb tablet, and that developers are eager to work with the device. He was quite clear that he valued the feedback and they wanted to and are working to address it.
We exchanged personal and business contact information so it was definitely a positive response.

mr.r9 said:
Can you tell him to (cough) leak something (cough)?
I had the Acer Liquid and we used to get leaks like crazy. But nothing for the Iconia
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I wouldn't want to risk his position within Acer by asking for a leak. I told him that I would redact his contact info and would not directly quote his response because he is a business contact for my company and I don't want to jeopardize that relationship or get him in trouble with the company. He was clear that they know it is an issue and that he personally was working with his team to find out the best way to resolve it in the quickest manner possible. Knowing how big corporations work, it's not up to one man or I believe even Acer America itself, but I surmise there are higher level talks going on. His team is directly responsible for product development of tablets and netbooks and I believe he is in a prime position to move Acer towards resolution.

diamond_cbr said:
Hello
Very good news, I hope it's not only a commercial response
@+
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It definitely wasn't a canned commerical response that one would get from T1 Acer Tech Support. If it was something I felt was said just to placate me or was just a generic statement, I would not have bothered posting this to get everyone's hopes up. It really gave me encouragement that they do see this as an issue and that he does want to help.

The_Monkey_King said:
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
2) Market penetration versus market stability. Right now Acer has a product that is readily available. Reviews have been mixed. (I ignore the ones who ***** about weight because 0.2 ounce difference is two quarters and three dimes in weight. Grow a f*cking pair biceps, you wieners.) But CNET and all the other mainstream reviewers claim that an iPad (not iPad II) and the Asus Transformer are the better deals.
But let's be honest about the responses. Sure, iPad is a gimme because it's a hip, cultural thing. Just like telling some kid that Pabst Blue Ribbon beer is **** will not get them to change brands as long as it is perceived to be "cool." So forget the iPad. As for the Transformer? Sure you can have an unlocked bootlader and new snazzy 3.1 roms, but who besides the true fanboy has one of them? They won't have stock until October of this year, and then it will be newer more powerful models coming out. The majority of people have bought a computer (desktop) and a cellphone and that's as far as they go in tech. Sure you have an iPhone but do they really use it for computing and service? They load the apps that their kids told them to. Acer can fill this gap by doing one or two things in the immediate future that could lock them into a top spot: drop the price of A500 by $40 or, work with the telcos to build and ship the next gen, wireless tablet. They are not going to drop the price because the units are selling enough that some bean counter says it competes with the other tablets in the market. But this would be an issue if Asus had their **** together and had the Transformer in plenty of stock.
This is the reason for the locked bootlader. If companies plan to add wireless to the next gen (or rev) tablets, they will get a lot of attention from the telcos. The phone companies do not, I repeat, do not want unlimited broadband connectivity. These are the same people who still charge for cell-phone texts. Why? Because they can and they know people will go over limits. Limits and exceeding them rack in the dollars. And they have millions of dollars set aside to keep their limits (profits rolling in).
If the broadband wireless next version of the Acer is different enough in Honeycomb 3.1 than the A500, then they might release an unlocked profile for the small group of XDA developers and those that read this forum. For the general population (and the large amount of sales), telcos want locked systems so that metered broadband is the norm. But if there is any way of porting and unlocked A500 to the wireless model, I don't think they'll do it. Also, it shows good faith to the telcos that they are already in step with them about creating limits on the user base. The phone companies will show favor to locked systems over the others. And that's the second choice Acer already made.
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Didn't the Xoom went through the same thing regarding being released through a carrier with a catch of having to activated a plan? ... and later on got unlocked bootloader straight from MOTO ?
http://www.androidcentral.com/unlocking-motorola-xoom-bootloader-forums
Each ones has its own potential... yet ruined by marketing greed... ( carriers $$$ gouging ) ...etc... ^^$$$^^
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20029411-1.html
I'm an Iconian "TYPE A" BTW
could you please sign it/vote it ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102690
"Strength in ###"
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...

Ask him why they haven't released the source yet, please.
To remain in compliance with the license, they'd have had to release it the same day as the bins. :|
I'm really starting to wish I waited for the transformer.

[Q] Terrible unit, what should I do?

So I had a chance to thoroughly test one of the units from the June batch and I can say I am disappointed.
1. There's a bright dot on the screen. At certain angles it is completely invisible but looking at it dead on it appears as a small bright white dot. Maybe I am moving my head or hands involuntarily but at some angles it appears as a small line, not a dot which leads me to believe that it may be dust. Opinions?
2. There is massive light bleed. Worse than the previous. There's so much light bleed that a 3x2 inch patch on the lower left looks uniformly gray on a black screen. Bleed on all four corners as well and some on the right edges. It's unacceptable now.
3. Sound seems to be balanced this time around, after 3.1 update sounds seemed a bit muted but it appears to be on some videos only, probably the gain on the video and not a TF problem. At least it's balanced left/right.
I think I should send this to Asus as I've exhausted all of the replacements eligible with TigerDirect but I'm not sure how the Asus replacement process will turn out.
In retrospect I should have kept the previous unit. No stuck pixel/dust, not as much light bleed. But now that I'm already at rock bottom (I think), I have no choice other than to do an Asus replacement. I'm willing to live with some minor defects now (even though it shouldn't be this way). I just want an "acceptable unit" and go on with my life. It's a good device but the quality control is worse than anything I've ever had to deal with.
Can anyone give details on what happens with Asus USA service? Turnaround time? What is replaced? What they want from you? I would be forever indebted.

I Heard Turn Around For Asus is Somwhere around 2 Weeks, Which is a long time.

Only thing I've noticed on my tf is the unbalanced sound (right louder than left) which seemed to start after the 3.1 update.
I think you should get a replacement from Asus. I've read some people have convinced Asus to mail them a new unit and then send there's in.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

Tubular said:
So I had a chance to thoroughly test one of the units from the June batch and I can say I am disappointed.
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(1) How did you know it was from the 'June' batch? did it have made in June on the box?
(2)Yesterday i noticed a couple of posts about buying latter built versions of the unit, (even though there was nothing wrong with the first build! And today we have people posting how they've miraculously found units from the later build and how they are strangely just as bad
This forum is so full of preditable negative posting crap you could place bets in Vegas!

checkbox111 said:
(1) How did you know it was from the 'June' batch? did it have made in June on the box?
(2)Yesterday i noticed a couple of posts about buying latter built versions of the unit, (even though there was nothing wrong with the first build! And today we have people posting how they've miraculously found units from the later build and how they are strangely just as bad
This forum is so full of preditable negative posting crap you could place bets in Vegas!
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Click to collapse
Your poor punctuation makes it difficult for me to determine who you're talking to. I didn't "miraculously" find a later build unit if you're talking about me. I sent my unit in late May and waited until second week of June for TD to ship a new unit out. TD sold out of them mid-May and I was told late May that they were getting a new shipment in June. This was substantiated by checking the website and noting the sold-out status. I waited from the end of May until the June shipment at which point the website showed stock was now in.
But you're right, how do I really know? Maybe Asus kept a bunch of units from April that they never sold and shipped them out to e-tailers in June just to piss people off or throw us all for a curve. Maybe TD doesn't really sell out of them either, they just mark it as out-of-stock and then they mark it as in-stock 2+ weeks later. This is a conspiracy to control demand.
TD doesn't allow refunds either, only exchanges. That means when a unit is sold it's sold, there's no way for unopened old units to get back into circulation unless Asus sent those to them.
Well that and the serial numbers between the two units show a significant difference if considered sequentially. The SN is of the format BXXAAAXXXXXX on both units where the number noted by X in both locations on the string is greater on unit two. Given that the first unit was purchased in May and came up with the latest update already applied it's safe to say that's not from the first batch and using the first as a reference point the second should be recent.
I don't know why you're offended. I haven't ragged on Asus or about the device itself, nor have I made a thread comparing TF to iPad 2 or Xoom. There's no reason for you to be so defensive about QC issues as if you're a personal guard dog for Asus (your signature is telling). These issues exist (even if this is worse than anything I've experienced). You take this personally because you misinterpret this as some sort of offense against Asus. I love the device but the QC issues are real regardless of how widespread they are. Note that I'm still not saying the device is bad or that Asus is a ****ty company despite what I've gone through.
I think you should get a replacement from Asus. I've read some people have convinced Asus to mail them a new unit and then send there's in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'll try.
I Heard Turn Around For Asus is Somwhere around 2 Weeks, Which is a long time.
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Eh, it's not that long to me. I've waited since April all time considered. I can wait two weeks.

Tubular said:
Your poor punctuation makes it difficult for me to determine who you're talking to. I didn't "miraculously" find a later build unit if you're talking about me. I sent my unit in late May and waited until second week of June for TD to ship a new unit out. TD sold out of them mid-May and I was told late May that they were getting a new shipment in June. This was substantiated by checking the website and noting the sold-out status. I waited from the end of May until the June shipment at which point the website showed stock was now in.
But you're right, how do I really know? Maybe Asus kept a bunch of units from April that they never sold and shipped them out to e-tailers in June just to piss people off or throw us all for a curve. Maybe TD doesn't really sell out of them either, they just mark it as out-of-stock and then they mark it as in-stock 2+ weeks later. This is a conspiracy to control demand.
TD doesn't allow refunds either, only exchanges. That means when a unit is sold it's sold, there's no way for unopened old units to get back into circulation unless Asus sent those to them.
Well that and the serial numbers between the two units show a significant difference if considered sequentially. The SN is of the format BXXAAAXXXXXX on both units where the number noted by X in both locations on the string is greater on unit two. Given that the first unit was purchased in May and came up with the latest update already applied it's safe to say that's not from the first batch and using the first as a reference point the second should be recent.
I don't know why you're offended. I haven't ragged on Asus or about the device itself, nor have I made a thread comparing TF to iPad 2 or Xoom. There's no reason for you to be so defensive about QC issues as if you're a personal guard dog for Asus (your signature is telling). These issues exist (even if this is worse than anything I've experienced). You take this personally because you misinterpret this as some sort of offense against Asus. I love the device but the QC issues are real regardless of how widespread they are. Note that I'm still not saying the device is bad or that Asus is a ****ty company despite what I've gone through.
Thanks, I'll try.
Eh, it's not that long to me. I've waited since April all time considered. I can wait two weeks.
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I'm not offended, i think people posting unsubstantiated negative crap is laughable.

I have to agree with Tubular about Asus QC. I have returned a total of 5 TFs because of massive black light bleeding and speaker issue. I decided to wait for the next batch, and hopefully all the issue will be fixed. Like Tubular, I love the TF. But the build quality is ridiculous. I never had to exchange anything more than once. I hope you will get a decent replacement Tubular. Let me know how it turns out.

What should you do?
first of all you should know that this forum will not be able to help you and anybody else, for that matter, with the hardware issues.
And since the tablet competition is at its peak right now, and since this is a software developing forum, the members with good units will always suspect that there are some hidden intentions.
I can only assume that your post here can have only one purpose, and that's to put some pressure on Asus for better QC in the future, the alternative is to discredit them.
Sent from my HD2 using the swype.

hagba said:
What should you do?
first of all you should know that this forum will not be able to help you and anybody else, for that matter, with the hardware issues.
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And how should I know that? I'm asking if anyone had experience with Asus USA RMA, that's not going to get me any help on this forum? As in not one person on this forum has had to go through an Asus RMA? Don't make me laugh.
hagba said:
What should you do?
And since the tablet competition is at its peak right now, and since this is a software developing forum, the members with good units will always suspect that there are some hidden intentions.
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I don't really care if "members with good units will always suspect that there are some hidden intentions", that's called extreme paranoia and may require help by a mental health professional.
hagba said:
I can only assume that your post here can have only one purpose, and that's to put some pressure on Asus for better QC in the future, the alternative is to discredit them.
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Or it could just be that I want some information about what happens in the RMA process. Good god you're dense. Yeah, you're totally right, there's only one reason why I would plunk $400.00 down on to a product and that's so that I hope it comes defective so I can put "pressure on Asus for better QC" (one would assume they should have had better QC in the first place) or "discredit them". You sound like an astroturfer. Even though you think you know everything you don't and your "conclusion" is wrong and horribly askew. You're looking far too deep into it, I'm not looking to pressure anyone or discredit Asus, I'm just looking for some god damn information on an RMA. It doesn't take a rocket scientist either, it's stated on the first post idiot!
As for the rest of you people, I'll keep you guys updated. I called Asus and they would only offer to repair a unit that's barely a week old and they want me to pay return shipping (which is standard fare for everyone who calls in). Now it's time to decide whether I live with this ridiculous lightbleed or send it back to Asus and take a gamble as to whether they might screw it up further. Right now I think I'll send it in, we'll see how this goes.

has nothing to do with the a500 but...

So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Here's the link.
http://chinagrabber.com/gs-708-cell...---android-2-3-tablet-pc---3g-flash-10-4.aspx

grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this
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Link to the device?

You'll probably have more luck in the General Android area than here. Or even on AndroidTablets.net

Try out Slatedroid
http://www.slatedroid.com/
They have info on the chinese tablets
MK

A word of warning. Chinese vendors have recently released a multitude of tablets that look nice on the outside and act nice when you first turn it on. The problem that's been floating around the internet is that they often die after a few days. These are cheap imitations of the real thing.
Please stay away from these products. Buy from legit vendors or retailers. The last thing we want is to encourage these counterfeit/fake companies to expand.
Added by edit.
First, it was the Iped. Now, it's the Apad. There's also the Superpad. There's a reason they name them so closely to the Ipad.
I don't mean to put down foreign companies. But we really do have to watch out for these fake tablets.

GS-708 tablet
grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
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ww. Apad.tv forums has a thread on this tablet. It is original and nothing about it is fake. even the iPad is made in China as is probably the iconia. Probably not the best place to post as people are iConia A500 owners.

honeycombflytouch3 said:
ww. Apad.tv forums has a thread on this tablet. It is original and nothing about it is fake. even the iPad is made in China as is probably the iconia. Probably not the best place to post as people are iConia A500 owners.
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This is why I said I am not dissing foreign products. I fully understand that most things these days are made in China. But there's a difference. Products with legit names have (hopefully) better quality control.
Again, why in the world would a product brand named almost a perfect immitation of a real thing that's popular? Iped. Apad. Superpad. Etc. If a product can stand on its own silicon feet, then let it. If it needs to imitate to sell, then chances are it's got something to hide.
People often try to talk me down when I share my concern. So, let me repeat. I have no problem with products made in China. I do have a problem with these companies that are springing up all over China that pay little attention to quality control and sell their products through cheap imitation of real popular things. We as consumers need to stop supporting these immoral practices by staying away from these cheap imitations.

Fair enough. for the most part a lot of rogue sellers on B2c platforms, and auction sites do not qc products before shipping - this does not mean the product is inferior: it comes down to how the seller qc's / tests / describes product before shipping.
It is not fair to make assumptions about company qc. ChinaGrabber.com is actually a USA site if you do a who.is search.
Lastly, many people on the apad.tv forums, including myself, have bought the "Branded" iBex Flytouch3.
ChinaGrabber is also a supporter of the forum so if their products have quality issues, including iBex tablets, I am sure people would be complaining. For the most part, I have only seen positive reviews.
The GS-708 is a new tablet so it will probably be a while until people get it and review it.
HCFT3

honeycombflytouch3 said:
It is not fair to make assumptions about company qc. ChinaGrabber.com is actually a USA site if you do a who.is search.
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Click to collapse
Again, I am not dissing everything that comes out of China or embracing everything that comes out of the US. There are honest to god legit US companies that have been created for the sole purpose of having an American sounding name and American base to sell Chinese, often inferior, products. An example of this is the company called Augen based in Florida. I'm sure many of you have heard of the Augen gentouch series. These are really cheap tablets that pretty much have everything that's wrong with them. Quality control is nonexistent. Tech support is nonexistent. The screens are made of plastic instead of glass.
For a time, I was curious enough to look into this company. What I found was that this so-called company name Augen has exactly 7 employees, including the so-called CEO. The company base is in a hotel suit. So, I went a step further and bought one of their products. I then pretended to be a complete dummy and called their "tech support". I asked some questions that any newbie dev would know. It was painful to listen to the guy's half-cooked answers. Let just say he didn't even know what a kernel was.
Augen is now selling what they call their espresso series. Very shiny pieces of plastic. Completely not worth anything at all.
The point is again let me repeat myself. We as consumers need to discourage such immoral practices in the trade by staying away from these fakers. Yes, most of them are from China. But there are a number of them who are based here in the US. And I am convinced they are all over Europe as well.
If the name sounds almost like something really popular, best to stay away from it.
Lastly, many people on the apad.tv forums, including myself, have bought the "Branded" iBex Flytouch3.
ChinaGrabber is also a supporter of the forum so if their products have quality issues, including iBex tablets, I am sure people would be complaining. For the most part, I have only seen positive reviews.
The GS-708 is a new tablet so it will probably be a while until people get it and review it.
HCFT3
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If a product is legit and is able to stand on its own, then name it something else. Boycott!

On a side note
This kind of business practice reminds me of "mockbusters" - movies named after the most popular moves of the moment to hopefully convince people to waste cash on some b rated crap by misdirection. I spent two weeks of research before buying my Iconia - easy to see how if i had not done my homework I could have been totally ripped off.

entropy.of.avarice said:
This kind of business practice reminds me of "mockbusters" - movies named after the most popular moves of the moment to hopefully convince people to waste cash on some b rated crap by misdirection. I spent two weeks of research before buying my Iconia - easy to see how if i had not done my homework I could have been totally ripped off.
Click to expand...
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Yup. When pirates of the carribean 2 came out, a soft porn movie came out called "pirates". Being a zombie fan, I've seen dozens and dozens of cheap budgeted movies with very similar names to high budgeted movies.
We need to stop endorsing these practices with our money.

Hey folks, I have to agree.
I bought a couple of inexpensive Chinese tablets on my tablet journeys. One was the Haipad M701-R that wasn't so great so I sold it. The other is my current 7" cheapie: a Rena3 that is actually an okay piece in most respects, but suffers from poor video playback due to shoddy support by the manufacturer with no promise of...anything to fix it anytime soon or...ever maybe.
What you save in money you lose in ongoing support, even with the better built ones.
The closet full of coding slaves the small companies have is only good for a couple of firmware revisions at best before the next big device they want to sell has to be coded for.
REAL support ends up being through the community in the form of someone in the know creating custom firmwares for these cheapie tabs, if you are lucky.
IF
The satisfaction level with my a500 is through the roof by comparison, and the firmware came down the line on it's own and WORKED.
PRICE IS NOT VALUE

grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Here's the link.
http://chinagrabber.com/gs-708-cell...---android-2-3-tablet-pc---3g-flash-10-4.aspx
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Click to collapse
I would warn anyone off ChinaGrabber.
I bought a Flytouch 3 10" tablet from them.
The GPS was locked to Chin.
The battery lasted 1 hour after charges, and later on the charge would not 'take'.
Finally the battery exploded, destroying the tablet and filling the room with toxic fumes.
ChinaGrabber's answer to the GPS and battery was to send me to some dumb forum and I was told to try the things posted there.
When I did try them and told them it didn't work they told me that doing these things invalidated my warranty.
PayPal (the scamming bastards) upheld my payment guarantee complaint, but then reversed their decision - they said to get the refund I had to send the item back in the condition I received it, I told them it was melted, cracked and burnt from the exploding battery, they said it's either condition-I-received-it, or no refund, then cancelled the entire claim on me.
Don't buy ChinaGrabber, don't use PayPal..

Check out the Rena3. It is a dual core tablet with a &

I've owned a couple of the cheaper Chinese tablets...one M0003 7" and a 7" rockchip tablet. I gotta say, that while it was fun to take them both apart and dork around with the insides, the fact that I ended up needing to take them apart to fix them should be a good indicator of quality control. The touchscreen went out on the first one, and while I could still use it with a mouse, it was useless as a tablet and the second had a shoddy joint at the battery and I had to resolder it to keep it going. After those experiences, I decided to go with a better name and got a Gtablet. Still have that and its ticking away like clockwork. My 6 year old uses it to play Angry Birds and watch videos every day. I got my A500 for my daily driver and have not been disappointed at all. I don't think I will ever buy another knock-off tablet again. The use-ability just isn't there, and the QC is questionable at best. My advice is if you want something with 3g capabilities, try to find a used Xoom or A501 on Ebay or something, cause even used it will be a better choice than a no-name.

goodintentions said:
If the name sounds almost like something really popular, best to stay away from it.
If a product is legit and is able to stand on its own, then name it something else. Boycott!
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Click to collapse
I hear that. The iPed was an obvious one.
But, Apad, which is in the GS-708 title is a word that discribes a Chinese Android Running tablet pc or "Android pad" or A pad. Do not think that sounds like anyting mainstream.
You guys are right to always do research on a product before buying it. I think this is why the OP posted thread.

BS article, we should all email eweek/Ziff Davis and complain

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...in-HP-TouchPad-on-the-Extinction-List-691746/
If you can't get to the link somehow, this is what [email protected] had to say (dated today) about why our Iconia should be on the extinction list. I'll let you spot the multitude of BS. If you get a chance, email him and tell him to do some research before he opens his mouth on the 'net.
"It’s hard to find too many worthwhile features in the Acer Iconia Tablet that can’t be found in other devices. The slate comes with a 2-megapixel camera, a dual-core Tegra 2 processor, and a 10.1-inch display. However, it’s running Android Honeycomb 3.0—an issue for those looking for the more-reliable Android 3.1. Combine that with the fact few people even know about the device, and it might not be long before the $400 tablet fades from the market."

What an uninformed asshole.

so sales numbers is the only thing he equates to a good product, well then the ford focus must be one of the best cars on the road

Why bother? Clearly he is an Apple Fanboi. He slammed every major player in the Android Tablet Market.

Easy fun happyness
Just read the last 50 articles he had posted. Quite obvious who is getting a check from whom.
Or perhaps his outdated and silly info is a true "review", right? Too bad many people will be fooled into letting a "review" like this influence their choice of tablets to purchase.

Xnine1964 said:
Why bother? Clearly he is an Apple Fanboi. He slammed every major player in the Android Tablet Market.
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Google the name and go to page two and it starts to make much more sense

For real
Check out this article - android 2.2 vs. Ios. http://tinyurl.com/237lz3f
Lmao

i hate fanboyism at its finest. I do not like apple but damn i at least respect what they have done.

Honestly, why would we care what some dude says about the Iconia.
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk

I wonder how someone so misinformed about so many products is still allowed to write about them.
This really makes you wonder what the editor of this publication does all day, this all falls back in his lap.

PapaTim said:
I wonder how someone so misinformed about so many products is still allowed to write about them.
This really makes you wonder what the editor of this publication does all day, this all falls back in his lap.
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that's called Free Speach
What an idiot, though, such an easy job/money for him.

eWeek needs to just change their name to biweekly and be honest about it.

Load of BS. Obviously XDA folks are clued in to the merits our A500 or whatever. Whatever happened to reliable journalism? I love my A500 - it serves my needs perfectly and latest ROMs for Android 3.2 show promise to make A500 an iPad killer.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium

I took it a step further and emailed eweek's editor [email protected]:
In reference to http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...in-HP-TouchPad-on-the-Extinction-List-691746/ - Enterprise Mobility: 10 Tablets That Should Join HP TouchPad on the Extinction List
I have got to say this article is riddled with technological errors that make me wonder if a) anyone fact checked Mr. Reisinger's work and b) did he even use any of these products before his apparent bias declared that they should die?
Case in Point the Acer Iconia Tab 1/11 in this article:
"It’s hard to find too many worthwhile features in the Acer Iconia Tablet that can’t be found in other devices. The slate comes with a 2-megapixel camera, a dual-core Tegra 2 processor, and a 10.1-inch display. However, it’s running Android Honeycomb 3.0—an issue for those looking for the more-reliable Android 3.1. Combine that with the fact few people even know about the device, and it might not be long before the $400 tablet fades from the market."
The only thing right here is the name, the processor front camera, and the display size. His argument seems to hinge on the fact that it's running Honeycomb 3.0?? Despite the fact like every android tablet - they all shipped with 3.0 and were quickly upgraded to 3.1 and 3.2 - just like the Acer Iconia was upgraded over 3 months ago. The Tablet sports 2 cameras, just like the iPad - and just like the iPad has a lower resolution front camera, but at 2-megapixal in the front and 5 in the back it's still got better resolution than the ipad2 - so I'm unclear why the camera is anything but a postive. He doesn't even discuss any of the tablet's unique features like being the only Andorid tablet in his list that sports a full size usb connection or its rave reviews across the web including Ziff Davis' own PC Magazine which gave it a good rating in April of 2011. The fact that the a500 has been outselling more "well known" tablets like the Motorola Xoom should say that in fact there are a few more people who know about this tablet than Mr. Reisinger's leads on.
It is my hope that after an editorial review of this article it can be corrected to at least include the facts, not just blind rambling from someone who obviously isn't a fan of Android tablets.
Regards,
David
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entropy.of.avarice said:
Google the name and go to page two and it starts to make much more sense
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I understand.
Top 5 reasons Don Reisinger sucks:
1. Because he does
2. Because he really does
3. Because he really, really does
4. Because he really, really,really does
5. Because his mother abandoned him as a child in a Starbucks with a sign attached that said "He sucks"
Just saying.

What a tool, well I sent him an email anyway, not like it could penetrate his brain.

Wow, that guy is a complete asshat. i emailed him, for what good it will do. I'm sure his reign of douchebaggery will continue unabated. I mean, he is entitled to his opinion, no matter how wrong, but at least hire a fact-checker or possibly just read the listed specs on the manufacturer's website before spouting such verbal feces.

I've also emailed this assclown (cc'd to his editor). I take issue not only with his options and mis-information regarding the Iconia, but with the article as a whole. I realize that editorials are opinionated, but that doesn't release a journalist from being honest and fair.
For starters, there his blatent opinion that 7" is too small for a tablet. I cannot see how millions in combined sales can possibly be disregarded as "redundant". AFAIK, the Galaxay Tab 7 is still the best selling non-Apple tablet to date. They still seem to be in solid demand now, with even the resale value holding up in the 75% or better range (at least in the Toronto area). As someone in the tech sale industry, at least half of non-Apple tablet sales I see are 7" devices.
Also, dismissing yet to be released products, i.e. the Cisco Cousin, is just rediculous.
Plus, the article is riddled with factual inaccuracies and misleading statements.
Lastly, I take issue with his dismissal of Asus as a non-"mainstream" company. The Eee PC defined the netbook market. You would be hard pressed to find a consumer who has shopped for a netbook who HASN'T heard of Asus.
I expect more journalistic integrity from a Ziff-Davis publication, but perhaps I'm living in the past.
Sent from Vera, my Iconia A500; All dressed up going places!

Wow that was funny! Seems the only tablet allowed to live is the one with the least features. The writer might just be mentally challanged, but whoever published that should be more responsible to the readers. Freedom of speach should not be an excuse for bad journalism.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App

BrianDigital said:
so sales numbers is the only thing he equates to a good product, well then the ford focus must be one of the best cars on the road
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Well put.
I guess that makes the A500 a sleek sports car to the Ipad's Dodge Neon-like sales numbers.
I wrote a scathing reply to Ziff Davis, critical of the article and rebutting the claims. It will probably go straight to the trash folder, but its worth a shot.