Related
I believe that owners of the HD2 might have all seen the USA version spec of the HD2, obably air their feelings about the hardware upgrade, I just got mine less than a week ago, and then to read on the web about bugs and updates for the HD2 from HTC, but to read that the US t-mobile customer will have a higher spec is frustrating to every HD2 owners.
So I suggest we all write in to HTC direct, even if their excuse is it's exclusive to the "t-mobile USA" only as they requested for it. I have written in already, but am just one among thousands of htc HD2 owners out there, so the more customer request or support on this topic, they are likely to respond into doing something.
Higher Ram, Rom and a 16Gb of storage card, compare to what we received and most of us saved up, got ourselves tied in to an contract with an air time provider and also had to pay for the device.
Simply stating that let us all write in or email in requesting for either an exchange when the USA launch their model, or they provider us with a suitable alternative.
So join me HD2 OWNERS in making a petition to HTC about our concerns, that we all had to make some sort of sacrifice in getting the HD2, rather than any other competitive handset or device that is currently in the market.
Sorry For Going on so long and any bad grammar or repetition.
Sorry mate, but you've not got my personal backing on this. It's a different device - end of. It's not even on the market yet, and probably won't be for quite some time.
And also, I really have to question this statement...
manmute98 said:
...we all had to make some sort of sacrifice in getting the HD2, rather than any other competitive handset or device that is currently in the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was in no way, shape, or form a sacrifice for me to get the HD2 over a competitor's handset. It was an easy choice, and the correct one for me. There is no handset in the world right now that suits me better than the one I've got.
I pretty much guarantee this thread turning into a flame war. I hope for your sake, and the sake of all those who do feel hard done by, that it doesn't.
Good luck
ok . sounds good .
BUT i dont think anything will happen , as far as receiving a new handset .
but i guess its worth a try .
Lol no wai, Im very happy with my hd2.
The usa hd2 will be beaten by another one in no time also.
Hi everybody
johncmolyneux said:
Sorry mate, but you've not got my personal backing on this. It's a different device - end of. It's not even on the market yet, and probably won't be for quite some time.
I pretty much guarantee this thread turning into a flame war. I hope for your sake, and the sake of all those who do feel hard done by, that it doesn't.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply, but to correct you, its not a different device, had got a responce from HTC uk branch that, it a demand put in by t-mobile Us network, not the Usa market, but the air provider.
All am stating that for the same device but higher spec's we deserve more than what we paid for, in the space of how many months of launching the HD2 device.
Whilst HTC have stated to a number of that T-Mobile requested higher specification, it seems that all HD2's have 576Mb of RAM, its just not being shown and that theres a chance that we've also got the 1Gb flash, but time will tell on that... so no I wont be doing it either...
manmute98 said:
Thanks for your reply, but to correct you, its not a different device, had got a responce from HTC uk branch that, it a demand put in by t-mobile Us network, not the Usa market, but the air provider.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I obviously disagree on what makes something a different device. Besides, even if they did offer me one of these as a replacement for my "old" HD2, it wouldn't work properly in my country, so it would actually be a worse handset for me to have.
Anyway, like I said, good luck.
I do not want to comment on the merits, or lack of, in mounting such an action (although I do feel strongly the futility of it), I do wish to point to the OP that his cross posting of the same message in other threads makes it look more like he is a troll or spammer. I suggest that he not do any more cross posting. Here is one example of cross posting in an unrelated thread, I am sure there are others.
Poor HTC
My company wanted to buy 60 htc hd2, on my suggestion.
After the news of the new model with 1GB of ROM and the unknown upgrade to the OS WM7, there was a stop to purchase.
At this point waiting a few days for the evolution of the market (tonight Apple's presentation).
I think that the mail of HTC is not necessary, the market is merciless.
Poor HTC, today again of -0.41% (international market).
I think it should nevertheless provide a review of business manager.
Blaise
rlydiard said:
I do not want to comment on the merits, or lack of, in mounting such an action (although I do feel strongly the futility of it), I do wish to point to the OP that his cross posting of the same message in other threads makes it look more like he is a troll or spammer. I suggest that he not do any more cross posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its not a spam just an error on my part, and to be clear there is no malice intent with what am suggesting apart from hopefully informing HTC that if the Uk market should be offered either a higher spec for the uk market or an alternative good will gesture e.g 16Gb memory card, an extended battery e.t.c.
On the positive side HTc did get back to me stating the obvious of difference in spec of the same handset, but will be happy to forward my concerns to thee right department, now that doesn't mean my request has been granted but rather notice and something be DONE OR NOT but at least HEARD.
Thanks to everyone who responded, accepting both the ve+ and ne- feedback
I am happy with my HD2. More than happy infact.
It is blistering fast and I have modded, prodded and firmware changed it to death. loving the customization.
Mind you the 16GB card would be nice!
other than that I am perfectly happy
GG
manmute98 said:
No its not a spam just an error on my part, and to be clear there is no malice intent with what am suggesting apart from hopefully informing HTC that if the Uk market should be offered either a higher spec for the uk market or an alternative good will gesture e.g 16Gb memory card, an extended battery e.t.c.
On the positive side HTc did get back to me stating the obvious of difference in spec of the same handset, but will be happy to forward my concerns to thee right department, now that doesn't mean my request has been granted but rather notice and something be DONE OR NOT but at least HEARD.
Thanks to everyone who responded, accepting both the ve+ and ne- feedback
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, sorry for thinking you were spamming...........
As for 16GB memory card, how can you blame HTC for that? I can go around Taipei and see the HD2 sold with differing sizes of memory cards in different places. Or maybe you would like to pick a bone with Taiwan Mobile, who carries the phone with 16 GB of flash memory. It is the dealer or carrier who decides the size of the memory card, not HTC.
And, there is nothing new in HTC offering different variations on one phone. They started out as an OEM manufacturer. Check the XDA Developers Wiki on HTC's history that can be seen through the products they manufactured through the years. I do not remember in the past when a phone had an upgrade with another carrier that it created such irrational rage in some.
i can not say that i'm unhappy with my hd2, i got mine in october from the uk and it would indeed be nice if htc would give free upgrades but wait and see what newer roms will bring!
and as long as every hd2 will get the wm7 upgrade (if it comes) i'm not that much concerned
maybe if got an other device by then anyways *g*
nevertheless i will write htc about the issue cause i want to know what their response is!
Can we PLEASE close this thread?
There is no point to it. The US HD2 is different hardware and will never come to Europe, so there's absolutely no point in complaining that the European HD2 is different.
Those that complain here don't even understand that the US HD2 wouldn't work for them, anyway. Nobody has been "shafted", because everyone who bought the "old" HD2 would still have to buy the "old" HD2, because the "new" one just doesn't work here in Europe.
HTC had to make a different HD2 because of the TMO US 3G-Bands and maybe memory chips got cheaper, smaller or TMO wanted to have more, so they put more memory in it, beause they had to produce a different HD2 anyway. It's only natural that after half a year, better technology comes out. You can't buy any piece of tech and then complain that half a year later, something better is available.
The US HD2 is different hardware and there's absolutely no reason to complain. It will not work in Europe and HTC won't change the European version. Moreover, you can't expect anything you buy to still be the best after half a year. End of story.
It's true
It's true, but but at least call HD3 !!!!!!!!!!!! ( this is marketing )
bye
I took my 386 into PC world the other day and they did a straight swap for a quad core 4.8GHz machine. They also apoligised for the fact that my PC only had 256MB RAM and gave me 8GB.
there's already a huge thread. so why don't go there and cry? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622734
so htc used us for beta testers and some of you are defending them?
no wonder they get away with it..
iphone sold 8.7 million devices in the christmas period..why did htc not try and get some of that market in the usa?
simple,they know the device was not working properly..
No, because it is no HD3.
And besides, we will probably get the HD3 half a year before the people in the US. That's only half a year later than their HD2. Does this give them the right to whine like little babies?
gabbs said:
so htc used us for beta testers and some of you are defending them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you whining little baby!
Our HD2 was produced half a year earlier. At that time, those chips probably simply weren't available or they were too expensive. The people in the US had to wait half a year longer than we did, now just let them enjoy their HD2. It's only natural that technology evolves with time.
freyberry said:
Can we PLEASE close this thread?
There is no point to it. The US HD2 is different hardware and will never come to Europe, so there's absolutely no point in complaining that the European HD2 is different.
Those that complain here don't even understand that the US HD2 wouldn't work for them, anyway. Nobody has been "shafted", because everyone who bought the "old" HD2 would still have to buy the "old" HD2, because the "new" one just doesn't work here in Europe.
HTC had to make a different HD2 because of the TMO US 3G-Bands and maybe memory chips got cheaper, smaller or TMO wanted to have more, so they put more memory in it, beause they had to produce a different HD2 anyway. It's only natural that after half a year, better technology comes out. You can't buy any piece of tech and then complain that half a year later, something better is available.
The US HD2 is different hardware and there's absolutely no reason to complain. It will not work in Europe and HTC won't change the European version. Moreover, you can't expect anything you buy to still be the best after half a year. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry mate,if you don't want to discuss this and is very comfortable with your device you can always not click on threads that are discussing the topic..
don't come tell us to accept being testers for a device without agreeing to be such..
A lot seems to have been written about the 2.1 Rom "delay". I've posted a version of this elsewhere but think it's worth simplifying here and expanding somewhat because who knows, maybe some who bothers the care at HTC takes a look at this forum? Most of us now are simply waiting it out for HTC to show some respect to existing customers and finally release the 2.1 ROM we know they all have waiting. Maybe when it comes it will be too little, too late.
It's all quite simple:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
It is being withheld not for technical reasons but specifically because of the Legend.
Releasing a 2.1 Rom would NOT hurt Legend sales because those with Heroes are mainly in contracts AND those without would want the newer hardware anyway - doesn't get simpler than that: HTC logic is deeply flawed although superficially understandable. From a company like HTC however, it's a bit silly and the consequences are irritating to say the least.
HTC is suffering from fear based greed as many, many tech electronics companies are (inc Apple) and forget a simple business rule of keeping existing customers happy. This is like a widespread disease amongst the big business community and corporate cultures. Simple, basic business principles like keeping existing customers happy are pushed aside "as if" it wont have any consequences by short sighted, fearful decision makers.
The 1.5 ROM is fine - perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
MOST are aware that HTC doesn't HAVE TO give us a 2.1 ROM - they don't have to give us any updates at all unless there are faults. We get it. We get it. We understand this point.
The 2.1 custom ROMS available here of XDA (and I've tried a LOT of them) are too buggy and too slow for general use. All of them. The recent VillainROM 5.3 for e.g. has a listed issue with voice mail notifications. That's a pretty integral feature! This does not detract the respect and appreciation I think most of us have for the effort put into them.
The 2.1 custom ROM are a great taste of the new functionality and tweaks throughout but are bad in the sense that it's HARD going back to the faster, stable 1.5 ROMs with "less good" features despite the custom 2.1 problems.
Too many are unhappy/feel let down with HTC cynically delaying the 2.1 ROM.
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android. In other words, they are fools if the think they can deal with their Android handset customers in the same way as their more "consumer" based handset customers. We notice what's out. We notice updates. And boy are we noticing the missing 2.1 update.
I for one despite rationalising and "understanding" HTC's "reasons" for delaying the 2.1 update on the Hero can't shake off the feeling that I'm missing out. There are more important things in life, sure, but I use my phone everyday and paid and continue to pay a lot for it. I feel like they're taking me for a mug. I'll do some research first but it looks like by the time I come to upgrade, i'll drop HTC for this and get a Samsung galaxy S when they're out.
I suppose HTC will have to learn the hard way - mess existing customers about : watch existing customers move to competitors. Business doesn't get simpler than that. HTC won't feel it, even notice it, but the effect is going to be very real and very subtle. If I was a tech company with a new focus of marketing myself directly to my customers, I'd think twice about a short term strategy for gaining adoption and consider such seemingly subtle factors as "will the Hero customers feel pis*ed off if we delay the 2.1 update for months on end?"
Oh, by the way - I'm not "waiting" anymore. Call it a personality deficiency - whatever - but I was checking back here a lot in and around the times the rumours said the official update would be made available. I realise now how much of a waste of time that is. I'm not checking back nearly as often. I recommend others here do the same and "let go" of the whole 2.1 ROM waiting. For your own sake. Oh, and "let go" of HTC while you're at it. Maybe then they'll take notice. Will take a few months the bear fruit - but if all Hero users go to another manufacturer for their Android fix, in about 6 months, maybe at HTC they'll be saying "wow, maybe getting that 2.1 ROM out to Hero users consistently was more important than we thought"? Doubt it, but it's possible.
alsheron said:
HTC are deliberately withholding the 2.1 ROM. A LOT of us here and elsewhere KNOW this. Not guessing, not speculating. It's obvious. We KNOW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Proof
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
My brain and the common sense it contains leads me to believe what I said. I'm far from the only one. If HTC are not deliberately witholding the 2.1 their reasons elude me as not only is the Legend hugely similar but even development here have been able to put together almost passable ROMs with the leftovers from currently released resources and some leaks. Common sense. It ain't proof, but I, like many others with the Hero only need to feel a certain way before I start to get irritated. No proof required. The restlessness and dissatisfaction with HTC from Hero users specifically is very real and if its percieved to be true then in practical terms, it is.
hkr said:
interesting theory, do you have any prove for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, for one, they have been promising, announcing and delaying this update ever since, but there were only sparse official (not rumored) justifications for that.
So we have constant delays (without reasons given) but at the same time the new Android 2.1 version released on the Legend, the hardware of which is very similar to the Hero's.
It's not rocket science, really. To be honest the delay to June sounds fishy too. Apparently there will be two updates... a preparatory one and then the one to 2.1 later. Why is that? I mean... we are wiping and replacing the system with a new rom, why would there be a preparation-rom necessary.
So I don't actually believe this rumor (and yes, it's only a rumor... just like all the other details... OTA, non-OTA blabla)... but think about it. Why does HTC already know how exactly they will deploy the update, when they claim to be not done with it?
alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
daniel_owen_uk said:
So if you "KNOW" that HTC are deliberately delaying the update, why don't you tell us how you know?
The only way you could "KNOW" that would be if you had seen the update, and you aren't claiming that.
So yes you are speculating, as you don't "KNOW", what if they have a show stopping issue with bluetooth? Or something similar that they don't want to release with bugs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am speculating. Just like I speculate that I'm breathing in oxygen right now. You could be absolutely right. If you are, then the least they could/would do is let the many people who e-mailed them asking for dates:
"we're experiencing technical difficulties with the update and we expect to have resolved by [insert overestimated date of expected release here] We thank you for your patience"
- or something like that? That wouldn't be too much to ask, would it? They haven't done this. Most reports of dates have turned out to be false or "missed" or simply rumour. I'm not the only one who thinks there is a significant and dramatic delay with the Hero 2.1 update compared to other devices. It's been noticed, and it's causing a lot of resentment - right or wrong.
The least of the mistakes they could be making is simply not communicating to their own customers when the 2.1 update will be ready - and again, right or wrong, Hero users seem to care, in general, quite a lot. Maybe they don't know if it's a technical issue. But would anyone really believe that it could take another 12 months from now? 6 months? 3 months? My point is that if they wanted to they could give us a rough estimate. In fact, they've said little or nothing.
alsheron said:
As my "theory" isn't a legal case, I don't need that most dubiously elusive of things called "proof" so commonly demanded in order to dismiss common sense reasoning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My common sense and experience with HTC tells me, it's not finished yet, otherwise it would have been leaked ...
alsheron said:
We KNOW
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, how many are YOU ???
hkr said:
By the way, how many are YOU ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are many! ;-)
I have this minor annoyance that keeps coming up in these update threads, the statement that the 1.5 stock ROM is bug free. People who keep saying that must not use bluetooth stereo. Music slow down and pitch issues, stuttering when starting a song etc. I'd be happy with a 1.5 fix just for those issues.
What HTC is really missing in this 2.1 affair is that the Hero was the first impressing Android device on the market. Tatoo and Magic were not good enough for a "geek" or "tech-victim" to make the big step and jump from an iPhone or whatever was their old smartphone.
Let's consider the two main type of "nerds" who bought an Hero:
- the most nerdy guys, who spent 500€ on an Hero anything less than a year ago, will jump to Desire anyway, because they always want the last piece of hardware, regardless how small the improvement in terms of performance will be.
- the less nerdy guys, or those who can't afford a 500€ shot every 8-12 months, will stick to their 1.5 Hero anyway, both because they don't have the money for a new phone, or because they are on contract, or whatever reason can keep away a real nerd from upgrading whatever piece of hardware
So there is no way HTC is selling more Legend/Desire/N1 by keeping the upgrade for them. Maybe 1% of Hero customers will switch to something better just because of this 1-2-3 months delay. Those who can, would have did it anyway. Those who can't, won't do it anyway. 2.1 on Hero will have a user experience definitely worst than Desire and slightly worst than Legend, so maybe releasing 2.1 on Hero 1 month ago would have teased the "real nerds" to buy a new terminal just to enjoy better all those functionalities that on a Hero would be a little smuggy.
Sorry for the bad english
alsheron said:
HTC are forgetting that android users and their customers in particular are generally going to be more "techy" and generally going to want the latest version of Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
Sorry - but this just isn't true.
The vast majority of people who have the Hero have no desire to root, flash, or do anything beyond what they can already do with their 1.5 handsets.
People like us, who frequent boards like XDA, are very much the exception rather than the rule, and HTC do not care about us - if they did, they wouldn't go to the lengths that they do to lock down their phones!
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats an interesting point - and probably (painfully!) true - but it doesn't "feel" true when you are one of us here - a "techy" and are waiting for the latest and greatest.
Just posted this on the T-mobs forums and some of this is already in the "lets get the kernel thread" but I think we should make a single source for what information HTC is giving us in case this does proceed to legal action, etc. Had to futz a little with the hyperlinks since I'm a new poster to XDA but am not a new user of this blissful place. So here it is...
I call BS on the whole thing.
I've been trying to get HTC to release the source code and also bringing up the shenanigans that they pulled on us all with this root block and internal memory bait and switch crap. Here is my dealings with HTC so far. Love the blame game they switch at the end of our discussion. I know this is a lot to read but trust me that this back and forth is quite entertaining.
MY 1ST HTC MESSAGE
To whom it may pertain to... Just purchased a HTC T-mobile G2 aka HTC Vision and have been a avid HTC supporter for quite sometime. Ever since I owned my first HTC device the codenamed blueangel. The fact that HTC would work with the developer community pulled me toward your devices. I can't believe you guys (HTC) would lock down the successor to the device that helped you start the "open" revolution. I know it was most probably T-mobile that made you do it but that is besides the point. Especially since they have blamed you in the press. You have spit it the face of the developer community and shame on you and T-mobile. This protection will be broken I have no doubt of that but the fact that HTC put it there at all is what is in question. Please don't make this a race of protection...hack...protection...hack. OPEN means we should work together not against each other. So please do the right thing and help us either root these devices or give us the kernel source to help us along. Or even better do both of the above and show you respect the dev community like we all thought you did. Below I have included the first post of a stream that will become a torrent against HTC from the XDA devs. Thanks for your cooperation.
MY 1ST HTC REPLY
We cannot comment on whether or not HTC has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone. Rooting the phone may open the phone up to virus attacks and other un-secure activities, as well as introduce intended functionality, and as such is very difficult for us to support. We cannot comment on whether or not HTC, Google, or T-Mobile has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone. All three companies work very closely to bring you the best experience on the phone possible. I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities. We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review. When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter.
MY 2ND HTC MESSAGE
I understand the position of HTC to not comment on the situation at hand even though it has already been outed in the press by T-mobile that HTC did indeed lock the phone. So either you are saying that the T-mobile press release was a hoax and HTC did nothing with write protection or HTC just want's the problem to go away. As far as not wanting us to root because of unsafe activities.... Well I don't even know where to start with that comment. We are all big boys and girls and can handle the effect of our actions. It's like saying Toyota installed a system in my car that will only let a certified technician open the hood because I may insert washer fluid into the engine instead of oil. Most companies would love it if you would void your warranty. Does it not lead to less operating cost for HTC in the long run to not support it's products because the warranties are void? You don't want me to void my warranty then do as the GPS companies do and make a disclaimer that I have to read and agree to before I go any further. Also on the subject of voiding warranties did HTC not say that G2 had 4gb's of internal storage? Yet only 1.2gb are available for use because of this lock? Back to the car analogies. If Ford says your car has 200 horse power in the brochure and (AFTER!!!!) you buy it you learn that only 50 horse power is unlocked you might be a little angry. No? I understand the position of all big companies is to play dumb until something either is forgotten or legal channels make them play smart but I do have to say that I did not expect this out of HTC. This post isn't directed at you Sarah but merely my G2 and thousands of others crippled devices. If you could pass this and my prior message to someone higher up that might at least read it and think it over it would be greatly appreciated.
MY 2ND HTC REPLY
Thank you for contacting HTC Technical Assistance Center. I do understand your desire to fully explore the G2’s potential. Let me try and address your concerns one by one. In regards to your request for source code, HTC will typically publish on developer.htc the Kernel open source code for recently released devices. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community. As for your concerns about the internal memory space, the space listed on the box and in advertisements is the total storage capacity of the phone, and in fact does exist in the phone. The majority of the space is being used to make sure your phone is running at optimal performance levels. If you require more space, you can use the provided SD Card to add media and other files. Our SD card reader can support up to 16gb of extended storage. Try and look at it along the lines of your computer. Just because on a floppy disk you had 1.44 mb of space didn’t ever mean you could use all that. There was always an amount of space you could never use. This is true for any computer type related device with storage. Big or small there’s always an amount of “floating” space needed. At this point we will be happy to document your concern with the current release state of the phone. Your concerns are being forwarded to the proper departments. Beyond the information provided, however, we would have nothing additional to release
MY 3RD HTC MESSAGE
Ummm. The reply on the 1.44mb floppy is just crazy out of bounds. Yes I understand that if I install a 1tb drive on my computer some 100mb's or so may be floating but not 500 gigs of my drive!!! You guys commandeered over HALF of the internal storage of the G2. That's just crazy. Also on the (right?) that you have to release the source code in 90-120 days.... Who made up that number? Certainly not the GPL you are supposed to adhere to. An excerpt from freedom-to-tinker talking about the G2 source code. "Perhaps HTC (and T-Mobile, distributor of the phone) should review the actual contents of the GNU Public License (v2), which stipulate the legal requirements for modifying and redistributing Linux. They state that you may only distribute derivative code if you accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code." Notably, there is no mention of a "grace period" or the like. The importance of redistributing source code in a timely fashion goes beyond enabling phone rooting. It is the foundation of the "copyleft" regime of software licensing that has led to the flourishing of the open source software ecosystem. If every useful modification required waiting 90 to 120 days to be built upon, it would have taken eons to get to where we are today. It's one thing for a company to choose to pursue the closed-source model and to start from scratch, but it's another thing for it to profit from the goodwill of the open source community while imposing arbitrary and illegal restrictions on the code." Please release the code. =)
MY 3RD HTC REPLY
I understand how this can be frustrating for you. To start, we are aware of a situation where the phone is not properly reflecting the correct amount of storage available on the device and we are working with T-Mobile to figure out why this is happening and how to resolve it. I appreciate your patience with it. Next, we provide a timeframe of 90-120 days for the release of the source code as a courtesy for our customer. Unfortunately, HTC Technical Support has no control over what is or is not published on our website and we can only forward the requests to our software developement team and website administrator. The code will be released and when it is you may find it on our developer website. Unfortuantely, my office only handles the technical troubleshooting of our devices stock software and hardware. I do apologize for any inconvenience that you may have experienced through this.
I SMELL WEAK SAUCE ALL OVER THIS!!!!
Are you emailing HTC America about this? Not sure what you think that will accomplish given that none of their low level engineering is done in the US. Also, what's with the rage over root? Did the labelling on your G2 box promise root or bootloader access? I thought we all went into this with the assumption this would be a consumer device and as such was fair game for any sort of anti-cracking protection.
It's not really about the protection on the device as it is that they have to release the source code when they release the devices. HTC is getting out of hand with this. Google HTC GPL violation and you'll see what I mean.
Also the box did say that it had 4gb of internal storage. That turned out to be as true as me saying "I have a 12 inch **** but only when I have a certain signed key unlockable erection."
simobile said:
It's not really about the protection on the device as it is that they have to release the source code when they release the devices. HTC is getting out of hand with this. Google HTC GPL violation and you'll see what I mean.
Also the box did say that it had 4gb of internal storage. That turned out to be as true as me saying "I have a 12 inch **** but only when I have a certain signed key unlockable erection."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmfaooooooooooo i died reading this man hahahahahaha im in tears man. but that is true tho. what shocked is that this guys actually read and replied your messages. unbelievable, i would have thought they would send you one of those monotone messages like "thanks for contacting us, we appreciate your concern and we will get back to you type bologne " this shows that htc aint that bad but this still sucks, for now. two things lead me to believe that its gonna get rooted permanently:
1: this phone is bound to have updates which obviously isnt the stock that the phone came with. if this was a computer chip or whatever then any phone that comes with it wont recieve any updates because it will return to original way it came in the box right?
2: it will be really pointless releasing the source code if it wouldnt help with the rooting.
im not the best when it comes with source codes and rooting, im just thinking out loud is all. feel free to correct me.
Well done. The one thing that bugs me about HTC is that they make the hardware not the OS. It’s not like I'm opening the phone to change out chip sets. What I think we need is a well written stock letter that every member of XDA can e-mail by the masses to HTC and T-Mobile demanding them to release the open source code they use in there, so called “everything you” devices.
One person is noisy but a thousand or more is deafening.
what shocked is that this guys actually read and replied your messages. unbelievable, i would have thought they would send you one of those monotone messages like "thanks for contacting us, we appreciate your concern and we will get back to you type bologne "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree that I was also shocked that they were actually responding to my messages instead of some generic corportate bs. So I do give them Kudos for that.
Well done. The one thing that bugs me about HTC is that they make the hardware not the OS. It’s not like I'm opening the phone to change out chip sets. What I think we need is a well written stock letter that every member of XDA can e-mail by the masses to HTC and T-Mobile demanding them to release the open source code they use in there, so called “everything you” devices.
One person is noisy but a thousand or more is deafening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is kinda what I envisioned for this thread. You could share your experiences with HTC or Tmobile if you have already contacted them and If you haven't hopefully it would prompt you too. I would like them to come out in November and say that that 90% of device complaint calls / emails were from the G2. Unrealistic I know but I can dream.
... Why do people keep bringing up the GPL? AFAIK, Android isn't released under the GPL. It's Apache licensed.
And even for the GPL, there's never been a 'the -instant- you release a product, the source must be there' - it's a 'you have to make the source available' (again, this is GPL, -not- Apache, just pointing out). That can be in the form of punch cards delivered via mule, if they want.
The GPL has many vagueness issues like this (or at least, v2 did, v3 fixed some of it, but who uses v3?).
I'd say HTC's being fairly good about it, in that they release the source at all, given that the Apache license doesn't require it.
I doubt they are withholding it just because they have nothing better to do. If you've ever worked with a large company, I'm sure you're aware of how the easiest tasks can take weeks of paper work and general BS to get done...
While I agree they should have it out a bit quicker, I'm really getting annoyed at all the whining (not necessarily directed at this thread). Most of the complaints are valid, but I wish people would just relax.
Despite the rooting issues, the "hidden" memory, hinge not being as firm as people want, etc...I still am happy with the phone. There's some preinstalled junk, but nothing like practically every other phone on the market. The hardware is nice, and there's already an update despite how new the phone is.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
Ditto
Jorsher said:
I doubt they are withholding it just because they have nothing better to do. If you've ever worked with a large company, I'm sure you're aware of how the easiest tasks can take weeks of paper work and general BS to get done...
While I agree they should have it out a bit quicker, I'm really getting annoyed at all the whining (not necessarily directed at this thread). Most of the complaints are valid, but I wish people would just relax.
Despite the rooting issues, the "hidden" memory, hinge not being as firm as people want, etc...I still am happy with the phone. There's some preinstalled junk, but nothing like practically every other phone on the market. The hardware is nice, and there's already an update despite how new the phone is.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second that!
shograt said:
... Why do people keep bringing up the GPL? AFAIK, Android isn't released under the GPL. It's Apache licensed.
And even for the GPL, there's never been a 'the -instant- you release a product, the source must be there' - it's a 'you have to make the source available' (again, this is GPL, -not- Apache, just pointing out). That can be in the form of punch cards delivered via mule, if they want.
The GPL has many vagueness issues like this (or at least, v2 did, v3 fixed some of it, but who uses v3?).
I'd say HTC's being fairly good about it, in that they release the source at all, given that the Apache license doesn't require it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right about android being apache, that's why they can have closed source things like sense. HOWEVER the kernel is infact a moddified linux kernel, which in fact falls under GPLv2. According to the GPL violations angency has stated that they are infact in viaolation.
And simobile glad you started this thread, seems people were more concerned with my grammer the the problem at hand here...
Knock this **** off before HTC stops making quality phones for us because of little ****s like you. Sit back and wait, the phone's only been out a week. Quit ruining it for everyone else.
SuperDave81 said:
Knock this **** off before HTC stops making quality phones for us because of little ****s like you. Sit back and wait, the phone's only been out a week. Quit ruining it for everyone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As someone who gives his hard earned money to HTC, how does he not have the right to ask them whatever he wants? If they don't respond, or blow him off, it'll turn a lot of us off HTC.
He isn't ruining anything other than your little bubble which I'm pretty sure no one else cares about.
One thing about their reply - they said the microSD card was max 16 gb. Whatever happened to the 32gb their other phones can read? Was this an error by customer services?
I know there is quite a few holes in the responses they gave me... 16gb vs 32gb, a bug that tmob and them are working on to fix missing memory? Quite odd indeed. Despite all those things I would urge everyone to send them a message and please post responses here. I'd like this to stay topical and not become a "oh I have a me too trolling comment in my head so let me reply" So please go to the link below and shoot them a message if you have a complaint about all this. The more people that do the better chance we won't have to sit back and wait 90-120 days for this source. It's super simple and they seem to respond pretty quick.
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations you win a bridge....You can live under it and charge people as they pass over. Jesus Christ your thoughts are so important go ahead and spill them.
Plus you might be interested in my new site
www.XDA-i<3-stockdevices.com
Since that's all the trolls seem interested in.
simobile said:
Congratulations you win a bridge....You can live under it and charge people as they pass over. Jesus Christ your thoughts are so important go ahead and spill them.
Plus you might be interested in my new site
www.XDA-i<3-stockdevices.com
Since that's all the trolls seem interested in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm, wtf?
Funny how when a post doesn't adhere to the topic at hand it makes people go WTF? Now ask yourself did your post have anything to do with the topic of this thread? Or anything to do with the want to modify or dev a device?
SuperFly03 said:
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, I spend $500 on a new phone, and I can't even count on the stupid thing to stay running through the day? Yeah, I'd consider that something to be pissed about. I've owned many HTC devices over the years, and have bought most of them outright in the release week. NEVER have I had one with as many issues as the G2. I took it back today, and told them even if they fix all these issues (screen, memory, random reboots and lockups, and trackpad spazzing out) I doubt I'd pick another one up.
I've got a funny feeling, that some of these issues tie directly into the locking down of rooting on this phone as well... Whether it be technical, or they just wasted all their time locking it down rather than doing some basic Q&A, it's a pretty big issue.
So yeah, I don't advise you coming in here and telling people that it is no big deal that a device that costs as much as a new laptop doesn't work worth ****.
SuperFly03 said:
Ummm, wtf?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, just saw this. WTF are you doing on XDA if you don't want to mod your device?
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?
I currently own the galaxy s3 and am thinking about buying the htc one. One major thing that would influence my decision would be how htc is on supporting developers. Samsung has been known not to provide proper sources or whatever needed for aosp roms etc and that is something I have always hated about the s3. I was wondering if HTC does the same with their phones.
Jinsuke32 said:
I currently own the galaxy s3 and am thinking about buying the htc one. One major thing that would influence my decision would be how htc is on supporting developers. Samsung has been known not to provide proper sources or whatever needed for aosp roms etc and that is something I have always hated about the s3. I was wondering if HTC does the same with their phones.
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HTC does support developers in terms of having bootloader unlock. As you can see, the Android development section has many roms. BUT they are often late with kernel sources (as every company seems to be nowdays unfortunalety).
Compared to Samsung, HTC doesn't use their own processors, but rather Qualcomm's, which had much less problems staying GPL-compliant, plus they have Codeaurora, where processor-specific bugs get fixed quite fast.
If you want it, you should probably get it, as there is no sign of Samsung or HTC's policies changing.
Jinsuke32 said:
I currently own the galaxy s3 and am thinking about buying the htc one. One major thing that would influence my decision would be how htc is on supporting developers. Samsung has been known not to provide proper sources or whatever needed for aosp roms etc and that is something I have always hated about the s3. I was wondering if HTC does the same with their phones.
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Click to collapse
Unlocked bootloader doesn't mean S-OFF, for this to come back, there are 2 solutions: To pray and to hope!
f.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
If you want to see how HTC relates to the developer community, go to the HTC Vivid forum and poke around a lot of the older threads. That will tell you *everything* you need to know.
It took us forever to get S-OFF, and if you don't know what that means, it is an extra layer of security added to the phone that prevents you from flashing a boot.img from outside of fastboot. It also prevents you from flashing a radio, period. We had to physically short out a connector on the phones circuit board to achieve S-OFF and that only happened about a year after the phone's release. Being S-ON is extremely annoying...extremely.
I believe there were major problems getting anything CM-based to work on this phone for quite some time due to HTC embedding code that prevented customization. I believe it had something to do with the RIL or in-call volume or something. You'd have to look it up. It was a nightmare.
HTC has been recently pulling their RUUs off of 3rd party websites and threatening legal action against the site owners. That should tell you enough right there.
Suffices to say, HTC is terrible when it comes to their relationship with the dev community. So in the end, its all about what you want. If you get the One, you'll have to deal with the typical HTC bull**** that we have all had to deal with. If you get a Samsung with an Exynos, you'll have to deal with their typical bull****.
Sent from my HTC Vivid.
Totally not true. The short circuit thingy to S-Off was way back 2011. On the One Series there's no need for those.
Also there's only 1 site that HTC took down and it's htcruu.com. The only reason why the took that down is because the site is using HTC's name & logo and obviously it does make sense.
In fact the ruu database is now again up and running and also fully intact here
http://androidfiles.org/ruu/
slapdaddy said:
If you want to see how HTC relates to the developer community, go to the HTC Vivid forum and poke around a lot of the older threads. That will tell you *everything* you need to know.
It took us forever to get S-OFF, and if you don't know what that means, it is an extra layer of security added to the phone that prevents you from flashing a boot.img from outside of fastboot. It also prevents you from flashing a radio, period. We had to physically short out a connector on the phones circuit board to achieve S-OFF and that only happened about a year after the phone's release. Being S-ON is extremely annoying...extremely.
I believe there were major problems getting anything CM-based to work on this phone for quite some time due to HTC embedding code that prevented customization. I believe it had something to do with the RIL or in-call volume or something. You'd have to look it up. It was a nightmare.
HTC has been recently pulling their RUUs off of 3rd party websites and threatening legal action against the site owners. That should tell you enough right there.
Suffices to say, HTC is terrible when it comes to their relationship with the dev community. So in the end, its all about what you want. If you get the One, you'll have to deal with the typical HTC bull**** that we have all had to deal with. If you get a Samsung with an Exynos, you'll have to deal with their typical bull****.
Sent from my HTC Vivid.
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So you mean that we wont get any source codes from htc like samsung?
Because of the lack of sources many sgs3 devs left all development for the sgs4.
And when there isint any source codes the cm10.1 roms will never be fully functional
Thats a shame
So dose of you who plans to have cm10.1 fully working should look somewhere else
People at htc are trying their best to release source code quicker and complete. They are already starting by selling the developer phone. But I have spoken to people at htc and there are people working there who are keen to get source code out on time.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
So i can buy a s4 because its qualcoom now who provides source codes dont they?
Riyal said:
Totally not true. The short circuit thingy to S-Off was way back 2011. On the One Series there's no need for those.
Also there's only 1 site that HTC took down and it's htcruu.com. The only reason why the took that down is because the site is using HTC's name & logo and obviously it does make sense.
In fact the ruu database is now again up and running and also fully intact here
http://androidfiles.org/ruu/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally very true. Anybody who owns a Vivid must short out a contact point on the main board to achieve S-OFF. Just because you don't have to do this on last year's One line of phones doesn't mean you won't have to in the future. I was using this experience as an example of how difficult HTC has been with the developer community as of late. It seems you've missed the point of my argument entirely.
Again, your argument doesn't quite make a lot of sense here either. You're saying that HTC took down a dev website due to the website using their name and logo? If HTC went that far to just get them to stop using their name and logo, ie. threatening legal action and forcing them to shut down, that's like using a nuclear missile to kill an ant. And that shows how dev-unfriendly HTC has become.
Any way you look at it, HTC is becoming less and less friendly to the development community. Samsung is the same way. You can pick your poison there. If you want a dev-friendly phone, get a Sony.
bariz143 said:
So i can buy a s4 because its qualcoom now who provides source codes dont they?
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Click to collapse
Like I said, Samsung has its own issues with source codes, etc. I'm not sure how the GS4 with the Snapdragon chip will play out with the dev community because its only now becoming even remotely available to consumers. And yes, Qualcomm does release its sources, but there might be other limiting factors.
My best advice would be to wait, if at all possible. Give it a month or two and see how development across these devices is progressing, then make your decision.
ste1164 said:
People at htc are trying their best to release source code quicker and complete. They are already starting by selling the developer phone. But I have spoken to people at htc and there are people working there who are keen to get source code out on time.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
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That is one thing I never got, and I chalk it up to a mixture of stupidity and inefficiency. It's too easy to get source out. Get a working, master local copy on your servers (don't host this in the cloud yet since it's still in development). As soon as they release the device, upload to a source repository, either home made or something like github. And you're done.
slapdaddy said:
Totally very true. Anybody who owns a Vivid must short out a contact point on the main board to achieve S-OFF. Just because you don't have to do this on last year's One line of phones doesn't mean you won't have to in the future. I was using this experience as an example of how difficult HTC has been with the developer community as of late. It seems you've missed the point of my argument entirely.
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Click to collapse
I would hardly classify a device made almost two years ago as their current policy. Android development has been slowly (or not so slowly) increasing. And HTC has generally been getting better it, but obviously not perfect. That's one of the reasons they released htcdev.com which the Vivid has a listing for.
slapdaddy said:
Again, your argument doesn't quite make a lot of sense here either. You're saying that HTC took down a dev website due to the website using their name and logo? If HTC went that far to just get them to stop using their name and logo, ie. threatening legal action and forcing them to shut down, that's like using a nuclear missile to kill an ant. And that shows how dev-unfriendly HTC has become.
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Trying to remember off the top of my head and only with three hours of sleep, so I apologize for any inaccuracies. They took it down because they thought people would think it was affiliated with HTC. They allowed the owner to bring it back, as long as it said they were not affiliated, and so long as he didn't mess with their RUUs, but just hosting is fine. Overkill (and developer unfriendlieness) would have been not letting him bring it back.
slapdaddy said:
Any way you look at it, HTC is becoming less and less friendly to the development community. Samsung is the same way. You can pick your poison there. If you want a dev-friendly phone, get a Sony.
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Click to collapse
Never messed with a Sony, but if you want the dev-friendliest, go for a Nexus.
slapdaddy said:
My best advice would be to wait, if at all possible. Give it a month or two and see how development across these devices is progressing, then make your decision.
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Click to collapse
And that's my plan. That and wait to see if true S-OFF is achieved, and if Koush picks one up.
slapdaddy said:
Totally very true. Anybody who owns a Vivid must short out a contact point on the main board to achieve S-OFF. Just because you don't have to do this on last year's One line of phones doesn't mean you won't have to in the future. I was using this experience as an example of how difficult HTC has been with the developer community as of late. It seems you've missed the point of my argument entirely.
Again, your argument doesn't quite make a lot of sense here either. You're saying that HTC took down a dev website due to the website using their name and logo? If HTC went that far to just get them to stop using their name and logo, ie. threatening legal action and forcing them to shut down, that's like using a nuclear missile to kill an ant. And that shows how dev-unfriendly HTC has become.
Any way you look at it, HTC is becoming less and less friendly to the development community. Samsung is the same way. You can pick your poison there. If you want a dev-friendly phone, get a Sony.
Like I said, Samsung has its own issues with source codes, etc. I'm not sure how the GS4 with the Snapdragon chip will play out with the dev community because its only now becoming even remotely available to consumers. And yes, Qualcomm does release its sources, but there might be other limiting factors.
My best advice would be to wait, if at all possible. Give it a month or two and see how development across these devices is progressing, then make your decision.
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Click to collapse
Your vivid was at&t's fault. Not HTC. At&t always locks there phones down. For example. The one x. The international version could be bootloader unlocked and rooted right away. At&t took steps to block htcdev from unlocking bootloaders for there devices. Those guys had to jump thru hoops to get unlocked. A friend if mine had to wait several months before someone cracked it. In general. At&t & Verizon are the worlds worst at hurting developers. I tend to buy unlocked phones to avoid such problems. Source is the same as any company. It comes when it comes. I wish all companies released source like Google does. Right before the release.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Im sure s-off should be achieved soon, like recent htc phones such as droid dna and one x etc..
ive been having both samsung and htc devices.. i feel htc has better developent than samsung in terms of less bugs and more close to aosp etc.. and gets better roms for sure