Database Users

iPhone Market Share Dropping to ~15% in....the end of 2011!

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS22762811
Android will get 39.5% market share this year! Gooo Evo & Android!

long live htc!

If they want more customers they need to offer more choices. It would be a lot harder of a decision for me if they offered a 4+ inch screen.
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aimbdd said:
If they want more customers they need to offer more choices. It would be a lot harder of a decision for me if they offered a 4+ inch screen.
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Well Steve was quoted as saying 4" mobile phones are like SUV's, who wants a 4"+ phone?
So, if they did come out with one, Steve would be a big ass hypocrite, which wouldn't be the first time.

Neo3D said:
Well Steve was quoted as saying 4" mobile phones are like SUV's, who wants a 4"+ phone?
So, if they did come out with one, Steve would be a big ass hypocrite, which wouldn't be the first time.
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Haha. Well he wont ever have my for a phone then ..
I wouldn't own an suv either. I tried to surf the web on an old hero... and it was painful (screen wise)

Our phones are mini personal computers. We like them to be as big as we can fit in our pockets while not being too bulky or heavy!
Also, regarding Steve Jobs making that comment, well, funny that he says that when his huge success right now is in the tablet industry and you see trendy Apple fanatics carry their iPad/2 everywhere they go! So, if a phone over 4" is an SUV and no one would want that, then the product fueling Apple so hard right now is, what, a jet?

Regarding what Steve jobs has said, I think the Evo is the perfect size.. I am a big guy also + I'm wearing carpenter jeans all the time. Still have plenty of room left in my pockets XD. Hell make the next evo after the 3d have a 4.5" screen just because they can.

One thing to consider is that Apple is not losing users (in fact, its still gaaining a lot of users), it just isn't growing as fast as Android. Some of you are talking about display size and features but like Windows the most likely answer is that Android is sweeping up the low end market. One of the most successful Android phones is the LG Optimus - a free or nearly free Android phone. I even bought two of them for relatives.
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Award Tour said:
One thing to consider is that Apple is not losing users (in fact, its still gaaining a lot of users), it just isn't growing as fast as Android. Some of you are talking about display size and features but like Windows the most likely answer is that Android is sweeping up the low end market. One of the most successful Android phones is the LG Optimus - a free or nearly free Android phone. I even bought two of them for relatives.
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Well, if their market share is shrinking to 15% by the end of the year, you bet they are losing users now. In the most recent report, they gained only 0.2% and that was including the Verizon iPhone launch, so w/o that, they were definitely in negative territory.
BTW, here's the quote:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/jobs-no-ones-going-to-buy-a-big-phone/

totalanonymity said:
Our phones are mini personal computers. We like them to be as big as we can fit in our pockets while not being too bulky or heavy!
Also, regarding Steve Jobs making that comment, well, funny that he says that when his huge success right now is in the tablet industry and you see trendy Apple fanatics carry their iPad/2 everywhere they go! So, if a phone over 4" is an SUV and no one would want that, then the product fueling Apple so hard right now is, what, a jet?
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You're totally right! What a hypocrite! It just proves that Steve will say anything to make money, EVEN LIE.
That sad part is that people are such sheep, they take it as gospel.

Neo3D said:
Well, if their market share is shrinking to 15% by the end of the year, you bet they are losing users now. In the most recent report, they gained only 0.2% and that was including the Verizon iPhone launch, so w/o that, they were definitely in negative territory.
BTW, here's the quote:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/jobs-no-ones-going-to-buy-a-big-phone/
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I think the assumption in your statement is that there will not be improvement in their hardware -- larger screen, dual cores, etc. -- or that a CDMA/LTE version doesn't hit Sprint. And that a GSM/LTE-or-HSPA+ version isn't made available to T-Mobile types. As an OS, Android may rule the roost in terms of market share, but with 30 different manufacturers making an Android device, that's not hard.
The rumors of the demise of the iPhone, I believe, are quite premature.

Neo3D said:
Well, if their market share is shrinking to 15% by the end of the year, you bet they are losing users now. In the most recent report, they gained only 0.2% and that was including the Verizon iPhone launch, so w/o that, they were definitely in negative territory.
BTW, here's the quote:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/jobs-no-ones-going-to-buy-a-big-phone/
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Share percentages != Absolute sales in numbers. .2% growth at this stage would be a lot more than .2% in its first year.
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TonyArmstrong said:
I think the assumption in your statement is that there will not be improvement in their hardware -- larger screen, dual cores, etc. -- or that a CDMA/LTE version doesn't hit Sprint. And that a GSM/LTE-or-HSPA+ version isn't made available to T-Mobile types. As an OS, Android may rule the roost in terms of market share, but with 30 different manufacturers making an Android device, that's not hard.
The rumors of the demise of the iPhone, I believe, are quite premature.
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Apple has around 7-10% of the desktop/laptop market, yet it's one of the most profitable laptop/desktop OEMs. The same to a larger extent applies to smartphones. Android is almost certainly growing because of low to mid end offerings, variability (large screens, keyboards) also surely play a part but its obvious that apple has a strong hold on the high end market.
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Award Tour said:
Apple has around 7-10% of the desktop/laptop market, yet it's one of the most profitable laptop/desktop OEMs. The same to a larger extent applies to smartphones. Android is almost certainly growing because of low to mid end offerings, variability (large screens, keyboards) also surely play a part but its obvious that apple has a strong hold on the high end market.
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+1. Apple is the greatest. A-p-p-l-e is the shiznit to me. Yay me
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Android is pretty much stemming the tide of the previously unstoppable Apple. While Apple will continue to draw in new customers and of course, rake in much profit, their stream of customers will be steady, rather than the outrageous numbers they've previously had.

Award Tour said:
Apple has around 7-10% of the desktop/laptop market, yet it's one of the most profitable laptop/desktop OEMs. The same to a larger extent applies to smartphones. Android is almost certainly growing because of low to mid end offerings, variability (large screens, keyboards) also surely play a part but its obvious that apple has a strong hold on the high end market.
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That's because Apple has created a sub-culture [of complete fools] where people believe every word that comes out of Jobs' mouth [http://www.geekwithlaptop.com/iphone-5-with-3d-camera] and are willing to pay two times the price just because of the sticker on the back.

mattykinsx said:
That's because Apple has created a sub-culture [of complete fools] where people believe every word that comes out of Jobs' mouth [http://www.geekwithlaptop.com/iphone-5-with-3d-camera] and are willing to pay two times the price just because of the sticker on the back.
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Of course. It has nothing to do with a preference towards a different OS or premium hardware build. Very few laptops come close, if at all, to a Macbook's build (materials, design, trackpad, keyboard, display, etc.). It IS expensive and you can definitely get more power for less, but you wont find the same build or a 100% stable build of OSX. Some people have different preferences but of course you think all of them are zombies - even the super techy, much better informed people I work with everyday.

Award Tour said:
Of course. It has nothing to do with a preference towards a different OS or premium hardware build. Very few laptops come close, if at all, to a Macbook's build (materials, design, trackpad, keyboard, display, etc.). It IS expensive and you can definitely get more power for less, but you wont find the same build or a 100% stable build of OSX. Some people have different preferences but of course you think all of them are zombies - even the super techy, much better informed people I work with everyday.
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I have to agree here. Similar laptops, cost similar amounts...
(Have you seen the price tag on the thin lenovos?)
I will only own mac laptops. Desktops, now thats a different story.

Award Tour said:
Of course. It has nothing to do with a preference towards a different OS or premium hardware build. Very few laptops come close, if at all, to a Macbook's build (materials, design, trackpad, keyboard, display, etc.). It IS expensive and you can definitely get more power for less, but you wont find the same build or a 100% stable build of OSX. Some people have different preferences but of course you think all of them are zombies - even the super techy, much better informed people I work with everyday.
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Here's what I know:
99/100 times an article like I posted is from an iphone place, not an Android place.
Moreover, my brother had a Mac. An iMac.
That thing was the biggest piece of **** ever.
With a sticker tag of little DOUBLE for the same specs of a Windows based system.
Thankfully his school paid for it and not him.
He actually went back and used his Acer Desktop to do his school work because of how terribly slow and crappy that computer was.
This is not about different preferences.
This is a cult following.

mattykinsx said:
Here's what I know:
99/100 times an article like I posted is from an iphone place, not an Android place.
Moreover, my brother had a Mac. An iMac.
That thing was the biggest piece of **** ever.
With a sticker tag of little DOUBLE for the same specs of a Windows based system.
Thankfully his school paid for it and not him.
He actually went back and used his Acer Desktop to do his school work because of how terribly slow and crappy that computer was.
This is not about different preferences.
This is a cult following.
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I would personally never own a iMac either, Macbooks are almost certainly the biggest pushers though and what we are talking about.

Samsung vs. Apple vs. Innovation

Well, things are not looking very good for Samsung right at the moment. A judge in Germany has declared that until this whole IP lawsuit by Apple is settled, Samsung cannot sell their new Galaxy Tab 10.1 anywhere in the EU except for the Netherlands. A similar ruling in Australia previously blocked sales down under as well.
Many pundits are saying they expect this to be the first falling rocks of a judicial landslide in Apple's favor that will savage Samsung's reputation as a rising player in the mobile space and force them to either withdraw most of the Galaxy line of products from sale or pay a massive sum to Apple...or possibly both.
This decision and the mindset behind it pisses me off. Remember that a lie unchallenged becomes the truth, and may then be used to support further lies. The lies that have become truth amongst the digital intelligentsia due to being unchallenged (or at least by having the challenges shouted down too often) are that "Apple invented the GUI" (not true, that was Xerox), that "Apple invented the Smartphone" (not true, that was probably Palm with the Treo or Nokia) and that "Apple invented using Apps" (not true, I had some great Apps on my PocketPC and my Treo both, only they were still called Programs). You can read those same fables almost every day, with the word "invented" being used in place of the more honest terms "popularized" or "helped develop", on almost all tech blogs and newspapers on the net.
Those fables are now being used to support the far broader fable that "Apple invented mobile computing" which to a degree was upheld by this German judge when he supported Apple's claim that any flat rectangle with a large touch screen is essential stolen from Cupertino. This sort of thinking, for all kinds of reasons, is just plain wrong.
So at first I fumed...but then I thought it all through again, and saw that the worst case scenario may not be so bad after all, and that to a degree Samsung brought it on themselves. Are Galaxy products similar to Apple iOS devices? Sure, especially the TouchWiz GUI. Faced with a market that clearly loved the way the iPhone looked and operated, Samsung opted to give them a slightly tweaked version of what they loved rather then try to convince them to try something new. It is tough to blame them...look at Microsoft. All critics agreed that Windows Phone 7 was fresh and innovative and a good start that would improve rapidly...and consumers STILL stayed away in droves. MS is staying the course and betting that eventually WP7 will catch on, but that takes a company willing to burn an enormous amount of money and patience...which most companies just can't do the way that Redmond can.
Therefore Samsung pandered to the public's current tastes and may now pay the price for that....but we as users may see something good come out of this.
Am I the only one that is bored to tears by the iOS interface? Can't we move beyond the minimalist Apple design concept that seems to inspire almost every phone and tablet available today? Perhaps if the courts side with Apple in this lawsuit, it will force Samsung and other tech companies to innovate again, to take risks on new form factors and different ways to present content and features, to go beyond the big rectangle with the large touchscreen and the app icons. If products are not allowed to look like an iPhone anymore, what WILL new products look like? I have no idea...and I like that.
People have spent a lot of time looking for an iPhone/iPad killer...but for a product to truly compete with those heavyweights it has to first of all be DIFFERENT from them. Experience has shown that if you try to beat Steve Jobs at his own game, you will lose and just be another snide jab in his next keynote. For a product to succeed it first has to stand out in both form and function. Win or lose, hopefully this lawsuit will make that clear to Samsung....or somebody.
EDIT: Here is an interesting note...Samsung is not alone in being a target for Apple's ire. They are also suing Motorola in Europe over the design of the Xoom. COuld a similar injunction be seen soon that will end Xoom sales in Europe? Read the details at http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/apple-is-also-suing-motorola-in-europe.html

I will hope apple lose in their anti competitive behavior. If apple win this battle, there will be more ridiculous court case eg, Toshiba will sue apple for the 'look and feel' like a computer, IBM will sue cos having the word 'OS' , Ford will sue every car with four wheels, MS will sue any system for having a boot up screen... I want my galaxy tab 8.9 now!!!!
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don't wanna be a smartshitter but Ford didn't invent the car my friend^^
That was Mr Daimler from Germany who build the "first" car and Mr Benz who build the first "modern" car years before Ford...and who knows what these nasty germans will do^^
greetz

MasterJam882 said:
don't wanna be a smartshitter but Ford didn't invent the car my friend^^
That was Mr Benz from Germany...and who knows what these nasty germans will do^^
greetz
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True, but Ford spent a lot of time and newsprint saying that Ford invented the "mass produced" car, eventually dropping the mass produced part. Now if you ask people what the first car was, a sizable majority (especially in the US) will say the Model T Ford. Just like most people now would say that Apple invented the Tablet.

rschenck did you have a look at the actual community design in question? for me it looks like if this lawsuite is a win for apple, nobody else will be allowed to actually built tablets anymore... so i guess this will just hold back the tab 10.1 for a while on european market, but not stop samsung at all...
edit: and this has solely to do with the case design, nothing about the interface there...

rschenck, an excellent post about a very important subject. I agree that this could be a reason for Samsung and others to boost innovation and creativity.
In general, it seems just madness to me that a company like Apple is able to prevent others using similar form factor. I suppose the German judge is not to blame, he's just doing his job (well I didn't really check if he had a choice. I guess it's the ones that make the legislation who would need to be educated.
Edit:
Btw how likely is it that a person buying a phone accidentally gets a Samsung because he/she thinks it's an iPhone? Come on, tell me people aren't that stupid. Oh well, I guess there must be fair amount of those who can't read, shopping for smartphones. But still, there's the picture of an apple...
I wonder if Apple has thought of suing apple farmers for growing products that resemble their logo. Just think about it: the poor customer thinks he's getting an iPhone and when he gets home he finds out he bought a fruit.

FadeFx said:
rschenck did you have a look at the actual community design in question? for me it looks like if this lawsuite is a win for apple, nobody else will be allowed to actually built tablets anymore... so i guess this will just hold back the tab 10.1 for a while on european market, but not stop samsung at all...
edit: and this has solely to do with the case design, nothing about the interface there...
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I am not sure of your point in the first paragraph, but based on what I think you are saying I agree that if Apple wins all it is asking for, that other companies will need to look to radical new designs and Google may need to relax their hardware restrictions to a great degree to allow companies to compete.
The German decision just hinges on the form factor of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, but the GUI and TouchWiz interface play a big part in the overall legal argument.
Here is a good breakdown of the lawsuit and what Apple is claiming...http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/

Still a bit silly on apple, they think they own the form factor of a tablet. Just like Sony decided they own the invention of the TV screen. The 10.1 is nothing like the ipad, for a start it's 16:4 ratio whether other is 4:3, how on earth one can be mistaken a square for a rectangle. I hope the Beatles start suing apple for the name
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okpc said:
I hope the Beatles start suing apple for the name
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Been there done that....Jobs won.

Ok, I hope LG will sued apple for using 'touch' as an interface.
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See my edit above...Motorola joins the fray as well.

Last year I wanted to buy a new smartphone, and as an Apple fanboy I only thought about buying an iPhone. Unfortunately in my country when the iPhone 4 was launched it costed around €650 which was too expensive for my wallet. Then I met the Galaxy S, which was basically kind of an iPhone rip-off but was €250 cheaper. I bought the Galaxy S and today it's still my phone.
So yes, in the end, if the i9000 didn't exist I guess I would have probably ended up buying the iPhone, and Apple could easily argue that they lost at least one customer because the TouchWiz UI and overall design looks pretty much like the iPhone.
I know there's more people in the world like me, I know how many times non tech savvy people asked me if I had bought an iPhone when they saw my Samsung phone for the first time... so in the end we must admit that Apple has a point
The iPhone has a very strong product image among the consumer and Samsung capitalized on that!

Look at it like this, apple sucks! The mac is a pc! Windows stomped apple for years and still does. Jobs never could get it right. Microsoft wins because they have one, not many ideas. The pc was made to be universal, the outside can be anything you or I want it to be. Ios and android are nothing alike. All apple is concerns about is the fact people are tired of being told what they can do with the crapple they bought! That's why I switched. When jobs dies, see what happens! Apple will rape the ios trying to get back to the top! Can I use words instead of icons to open an app or display the weather, not on crapple! Can a maxi pad hook to a server to fix an issue, nope! It's an over sized ipod! Now samsung screwed themselves with the 10.1! Look at it, one cable that looks just like apples, one port, the damn cheap plastic, it wreaks of copy cat! Apple couldn't patent the use of "market" cause then the flea market and grocery market would eat their lunch! Apple is losing the war and they know it! All they are doing is slowing their eventual death! I say we invent a toy and call it the iplug! Of course as soon as apple hears it, they will sue. An apple with the letter I on top! Only problem apple is unaware that it's an adult toy! How pathetic would they look?
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@rschenk
Nice to take a break from flashing and bricking and then puffing and panting.........
Firstly,their TAB went on sale in India and Australia today I believe.
I reckon the biggest market for Samsung is all-Asia inclusive of big brother China where Apple will not be able to stop anything!In fact,Chinese stores started selling 'Hi-phone 5' today,for virtually a song.
Yes,where these firms make a mistake is the 'Me-too' attitude like you mentioned in the case of the GUI viz TOUCHWIZ in the case of Samsung and of course the form factor.
All said and done,it's 'dog eat dog' out there with android itself being under very severe attack from Apple/Microsoft.The biggest gainer eventually would be the customers with some real differentiating possibilities beyond the mere price of these expensive gadgets!
ps---really enjoyed your post!

i want to sue steve jobs because he looks like someone i know

Great thread ! i totally agree with you on this, I do like the Samsung android devices, BUT they do look a lot like the iphone, just like the MIUI rom (which im using lol)
It would be great if Samsung made massive changes to their devices, and something 10 x better than iOS which to be honest.... is nice..
Who knows whats going to happen, maybe its just bullying on a mass scale, Maybe its for the best... But no matter what happens, I will never own an iphone, I will go back to a nokia 6210 if i have too.
I dont rape iphone users, I havent got the balls (pun intended!) But for me, i hate apple, i hate the restrictions, the forcing of using itunes only. and all the other **** they make you do.
I want a phone that i can suit to my needs, and do what i want to it. And thats why i am an android user. Its not Samsung that i like.... its android, so as long as android continues... i couldnt give a **** !!

To be honest,
I love the quality of Samsung products, and this made me kinda fan-boy of them. Because their quality is superb. If there was a better company I would switch but there is not. (Depending on the device of course, canon makes better reflex camera, no doubt, just as example).
You can look at this as a step to the future because companies now might improve their product designs, but we are talking about tablets. What do you think tablets look like? I don't see tablets in a pyramid case... honestly, for me it is just a huge "what the f*ck".
Thumbs down for Apple and the Judge who is a complete retard.
Regards

There's why our xoom has the funny crap way of being used. Microsoft did it! Let's all mass email Microsoft and tell 'em we are switching to Mac and ios! See what happens to apple. I am sick of buying devices and being told I can't do what I want with it! Next they will stop selling printing paper cuz it's white and rectangled! Then there's the saying the alphabet....abcdefghjklmnopqrstuvxyz! Apple didn't invent crap! They stole most of everything they make! I say we start a petition to stop apple's lawsuits. Or we can file a class action against apple for being idiots! And another thing! Why do Mac's work with windows? Oh yeah apple's CPU sucked!!!!!
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Well, it's a company's job to make money to its shareholders. Can we really blame Apple alone for using methods like this? After all it seems that (legally) Apple has a case here so it's worth trying. Imo the question is should there be patent and IP laws that allow patenting a rectangular shape

Intelligent thinking. Very well written too. You deserve a pat on shoulder.

Apple's War on Tablets - Motorola is next?

Most of us are now aware that the sale of Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablets have been blocked in Europe (at least for now) by an injunction in favor of Apple's lawsuit...now it appears they are suing Motorola in Europe as well.
(Source: FOSS)
Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16511779#post16511779

That's why I bought my wife a xoom now.
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>Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
That'd be true in two months, regardless.
>Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation
Honestly, you're ranting. That's fine, if it makes you feel better, although not sure why you should feel worse. It's big companies fighting it out. Let them.
Give the judge the benefit of the doubt for competence. If the suit was frivolous, Apple wouldn't have secured an injunction. Whatever legal merit the suit has, frankly, we don't know. Getting upset about it doesn't make us understand it any better.

I will never ever purchase an apple product ever

inspiron41 said:
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
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My rant:
Likewise. I bought the second Gen iPod when they were a decent company. Then they got in their mind that they can take over the world (which they might) but I think that is very indecent to innovation. I have never had such a hatred to one company and always will.
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It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.

It's about time Apple tried to sue someone with a strong patent portfolio. As long as Motorola don't roll over, Apple *are* going to get a bloody nose, because suing over patents nowadays seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the merit of your case.

If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.

e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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So you're saying is it would be OK to live in a dictatorship country if it was pretty and had good weather?
Sure Apple makes good products, however there are very good if not better alternatives. Apple improves on one product in the market and makes it incredible. Then other companies start making the products better as well and Apple sues them. Happened to mp3 players and iPods, now happening for tablets and iPads. It hurts innovation and I know Google and Microsoft also sue companies but not as much and not as narrow minded/take over the market mentality that Apple has. Now don't get me wrong I have owned Apple before, and yes their products are well made and innovative. But so are a lot of other brands.
But I do agree on the grander scheme of things if we arn't just talking tech toys that yes it is not a good idea to be narrow minded on anything. I believe that's what you were trying to get at.

e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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You are saying this as if it is a new phenomenon.
======short version========
Put simply, it is easier to deal with absolutes and it is easier to convey opinion to others in absolutes.
======long version========
It is human nature to ally with a particular group, society, or set of ideals and denigrate the things that differ from the ideal you are allied with. Countries, religions, sports teams, type of car.... the list is as long as there are comparable objects. It is possible for people to see in shades of right rather than absolutes but this provides no stable platform on which to hang a set of beliefs.
- It is far easier to say "Motorola is incompetent and I will never use them again" than it is to say "Motorola made some serious mistakes with the Xoom but they did do some things right."
- It is easier to say "Motorola is out to screw early Xoom adopters." than it is to say "Motorola is not communicating well with early Xoom adopters."
- It is easier to say "thou shall not kill" than it is to say "thou shall not kill unless it is needed to preserve other life"
- It is easier to say "Other religions are wrong" than it is to say "other religions are different."
- and it is easier to say "Apple is evil" than it is to say "Apple's stance on the similarity between the iPad and Xoom is not reasonable."
Absolutes allow a person to place an idea, group, or company into a position within opinion that requires less thought and little debate. This is comforting to most, requires less consideration, and makes life easier to deal with. The more you deal with a specific idea/group/company the more details you learn and the less likely you are to paint your opinion on the subject with such broad strokes. No one wants to try and know everything in such detail however.
So while it would be better if mankind as a whole took an effort to see the merit in differing opinions on subjects, it is not the nature of man. To try and remove the polarizing nature of the psyche would possibly lead to less conflict but it would also to moral and ethical confusion.
There have been and are individuals who have evolved past this need but those individuals are not common, indeed the most notable have been quite extraordinary.

Here is one take on the patent issue that underlies the various recent legal spats. The commentary delves into more detail than the usual regurgitated pap, and the arguments made are reasonable, at least based on the material as presented.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/11/broken-patent-system/

http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and...obile-devices/news/376718/1621537#post1621537
DaniWeb can reveal exactly what it is that Apple thinks Samsung has copied, and we hope you are sitting down because the actual community design images contained within that certification are basic to say the least.
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so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?

_delice_doluca_ said:
so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
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Click to collapse
I don't think you need to worry. Get the Xoom for your girlfriend. If you root it (or even if not) you will continue to have plenty of support for your tablet from this community as well as from Google/Moto. I just think that Apple is not allowed to take over the world. We have to take a stand some time, somewhere.

nooomoto said:
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
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Click to collapse
What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over

rockhumper said:
What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
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Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!

okantomi said:
Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
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Totally agree on using better negative terms...I would actually call them "smug and arrogant" more than anything else.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.

MitchRapp said:
whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
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That's a pretty extreme statement.
Apple has the best marketing in the tech world. They also have some decent products, with plenty of objective reasons to choose Apple over the alternatives.
However, remember that marketing is simply making people aware of a product and its features.
I find when talking to people that decisions on platform aren't made over which commercial was the coolest, but rather the features and/or familiarity with the brand.
I would argue that very few people are so superficial as to choose a platform based on "hip"-ness.

The real problem here is not Apple. Whatever you think of iOS, they are just a company using every tool at their disposal to succeed. If roles were reversed any company would do the same.
The problem is a hopelessly broken, pitifully antiquated Patent system that allows absurd patents to be approved.
This problem is compounded by the abuse of "patent troll" companies that never developed a technology or released a product, but simply bought patents and create lawsuits.
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Transformer wins Gadget of the year.

Beating iPad2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15559778
Braindead media experts are in shock that their beloved Apple did not win it.
However anyone with any sense already knew this. I mean the Transformer beats the iPad2 in every respect.
* 7x the camera megapixel count.
* 20% more screen resolution.
* USB2 ports
* Dock with double battery life
* Lower cost
A win for great technology over average technology and slick marketing.

-----
"Despite the iPad 2 being a finer tablet in the purest sense, the Asus Eee Pad Transformer offers so much more," Stuff's consulting editor, Simon Osborne-Walker, told the BBC.
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:/ ifag much?
but seriously the TF deserves it
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Asus is expected to launch a successor hybrid device within the coming weeks. Analysts say the new version is likely to include a faster processor and the latest version of Google's Android system.
---
are these so called experts living under a rock or something?

I'd love for them to define how it's actually "finer tablet in the purest sense,"..
I mean if any other company launched a tablet with a main camera with a pathetic 700k pixel camera, when even cheapo smartphones have 5Mpixels camera, they would be absolutely slated.
It's a vicious cycle of course, all these "experts" only know iPad2, because they simply can't be bothered to look elsewhere (and many of them get complimentary review iPad2 units to keep, so why bother..), so just assume that it's the best because it's best selling, and it's best selling just cements that further...

well personally i find alot of apple customers to be borderline obsessed with apple products..... its kinda scary, the power that marketing has on people with weaker minds :/

The Asus Transformer has won Stuff Magazine's Gadget of the Year award beating the iPad 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15559778
In reply to below. I checked before posting this. At the time this thread did not exist. We must have posted within minutes of each other. It happens. Millions of people in different time zones all with the power to press "Save"

Really dude. There is another thread one thread over from this one pertaining to this very thing. Please help keep the forum clean of endless, useless posts.

reaperzero said:
well personally i find alot of apple customers to be borderline obsessed with apple products..... its kinda scary, the power that marketing has on people with weaker minds :/
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No ****, I'm married to one. She won't even consider Android anything anymore. She has made it clear her next phone will be the iPhone 5 and we sold the iPad and she is using my Transformer and *****es about it EVERY SINGLE DAY demanding she get an iPad 2. Yet...one of the main things she wants to do is Skype (with family) which is much better on the Transformer due to the camera but she just doesn't get it. Oh, did I mention she has never even used an iPhone before, but she said she just knows its better...
So, in an effort to stave off a domestic violence situation and/or divorce...we are buying a stupid iPad 2 today.
I love her in every other way...but her understanding of technology is a disappointment. I guess no one is perfect...well...except us here in the forums.

ExploreMN said:
No ****, I'm married to one. She won't even consider Android anything anymore. She has made it clear her next phone will be the iPhone 5 and we sold the iPad and she is using my Transformer and *****es about it EVERY SINGLE DAY demanding she get an iPad 2. Yet...one of the main things she wants to do is Skype (with family) which is much better on the Transformer due to the camera but she just doesn't get it. Oh, did I mention she has never even used an iPhone before, but she said she just knows its better...
So, in an effort to stave off a domestic violence situation and/or divorce...we are buying a stupid iPad 2 today.
I love her in every other way...but her understanding of technology is a disappointment. I guess no one is perfect...well...except us here in the forums.
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hahaha ... LMAO xD
well i totally agree with ya dude .. well im new in TF family .. have ordered my TF will be getting it on the 26th or 27th of this month ..
well now adays what i've experianced is .. when i ever i see an Apple user and i take my Galaxy S i9000 out .. and we start the debate ... and after all humiliation to that apple user .. they say .. STFU Apple is Apple ..
lol .. no wards to say nything ... and that makes me rofl

ExploreMN said:
So, in an effort to stave off a domestic violence situation and/or divorce...we are buying a stupid iPad 2 today.
I love her in every other way...but her understanding of technology is a disappointment. I guess no one is perfect...well...except us here in the forums.
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Click to collapse
Who will pay? If you then do not buy! Ask him why Apple is the best and if the answer is so foolish, he is a believer in Apple. Apple fan boys and girls are the worst. Android is in many ways better than iOS.

yay for competition driving market improvements!

PatrikSelin said:
Who will pay? If you then do not buy! Ask him why Apple is the best and if the answer is so foolish, he is a believer in Apple. Apple fan boys and girls are the worst. Android is in many ways better than iOS.
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True .....

ExploreMN said:
No ****, I'm married to one. She won't even consider Android anything anymore. She has made it clear her next phone will be the iPhone 5 and we sold the iPad and she is using my Transformer and *****es about it EVERY SINGLE DAY demanding she get an iPad 2. Yet...one of the main things she wants to do is Skype (with family) which is much better on the Transformer due to the camera but she just doesn't get it. Oh, did I mention she has never even used an iPhone before, but she said she just knows its better...
So, in an effort to stave off a domestic violence situation and/or divorce...we are buying a stupid iPad 2 today.
I love her in every other way...but her understanding of technology is a disappointment. I guess no one is perfect...well...except us here in the forums.
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Click to collapse
My wife is the exact same!!!!!!
Except her drama is with an HTC Desire Z (she "had" to have a hard keyboard lol). Which although she has never had an iphone, claims it has no problems and would work perfectly unlike the daily rubbish desire Z lol
The TF gets the same abuse, never used an ipad but claims it would be better because Polaris office doesn't have a spell check (to be fair it is a bit annoying but hardly a reason to condemn an entire device to the bin lol - oh and the browser's quick controls confuse her lol).

I dont understand these people what is wrong with them why have a slower processor less ram a crap camera updates that come out once in a blue moon and a market where almost nothing usefull is free and a system thats under more control than a chinese media centre
I admit time wise ios has the phd and android is still a student but that student is a prodogy
Maybe you're wifes and girlfriends will learn once they actally buy the iphone five and you have a kal el powered android phone
Sent from my tf101 using xda premium 1.54Ghz

lol i guess im one of the few lucky ones here my girlfriend and I swear by android

reaperzero said:
lol i guess im one of the few lucky ones here my girlfriend and I swear by android
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I have to admit, sometimes I swear at android
Way to go Asus though. My transformer is the best gadget I've ever owned. I've finally been able to ditch my HP laptop for business meetings.

Because it's Apple; 'nough said. If I had so many froathy mouthed lunatic fans as the cult of the Mac' then I would invent a thermo-nuclear death ray and direct them to take over the world for me. Hehe.
ExploreMN said:
No ****, I'm married to one. She won't even consider Android anything anymore. She has made it clear her next phone will be the iPhone 5 and we sold the iPad and she is using my Transformer and *****es about it EVERY SINGLE DAY demanding she get an iPad 2. Yet...one of the main things she wants to do is Skype (with family) which is much better on the Transformer due to the camera but she just doesn't get it. Oh, did I mention she has never even used an iPhone before, but she said she just knows its better...
So, in an effort to stave off a domestic violence situation and/or divorce...we are buying a stupid iPad 2 today.
I love her in every other way...but her understanding of technology is a disappointment. I guess no one is perfect...well...except us here in the forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm blessed, because my fiancee generally takes a "That's retarded!" view of such things; be it blind Apple Fanboyism (It's just better because it's Apple) or pretty much anything else like that. Wouldn't be surprised if she went iPhone should she someday take a smart phone, which is perfectly fine with me. It really is a major pleasure to have someone like I do, and knowing that the girl I love can apply her mind even there: rather than joining the mindless mob. I love that Firefly.
Differences like what you've got to deal with are probably ineveable in any relationship IMHO but at least you don't have to trade in all your crap for iCrap lol.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

iOS is only good if you Jailbreak it. Without Cydia iOS sux. It's slow and clunky. The true tech savvy person knows that Android rules over iOS in every aspect except for ergonomics. Apple still has the thinnest phones and pads.

Asus really won me over with my transformer, I have an iPhone 4 and i decided to go android for my tablet to get sense of them, now i can't stand using my iPhone it just doesn't do what I want it to do and I know my next phone will be a Nexu phone... except i have another ytwo years on my contract.... Damn you Canada and your 3 year contracts

ExploreMN said:
No ****, I'm married to one. She won't even consider Android anything anymore. She has made it clear her next phone will be the iPhone 5 and we sold the iPad and she is using my Transformer and *****es about it EVERY SINGLE DAY demanding she get an iPad 2. Yet...one of the main things she wants to do is Skype (with family) which is much better on the Transformer due to the camera but she just doesn't get it. Oh, did I mention she has never even used an iPhone before, but she said she just knows its better...
So, in an effort to stave off a domestic violence situation and/or divorce...we are buying a stupid iPad 2 today.
I love her in every other way...but her understanding of technology is a disappointment. I guess no one is perfect...well...except us here in the forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry to hear. My better half was the opposite. I really tried to convince her to get an ipad 2 since she was computer illiterate. But she wouldn't have it. She wanted what I had. So we went out to get her a tf.

AcIdC0R3 said:
iOS is only good if you Jailbreak it. Without Cydia iOS sux. It's slow and clunky. The true tech savvy person knows that Android rules over iOS in every aspect except for ergonomics. Apple still has the thinnest phones and pads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without jailbreak you can change the socks and with jailbreak you can change shoes. So it's not a big deal. Without root allows you to do more than jailbreaked iOS device.
AcIdC0R3 said:
Apple still has the thinnest phones and pads.
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Click to collapse
Samsung Galaxy 10.1 is "much" thinner 8.6 mm (iPad 8.8 mm.)

Apple following GNotes design patterns?

According to http://mashable.com/2012/05/24/apple-stylus/this article Apple applied for a stylus patent. Is this a sign of next iphone will include a stylus or what? How cool is that?
Article tells apple's stylus will be different then others as follows. Apple’s idea of the stylus, however, is slightly different from the simple styluses you usually get with tablets today. It’s an optical device that can determine (via a pressure sensor) when it’s in contact with a surface and can capture an image using a built-in camera.
Does it sound familiar to you? I think it's Sammy's turn now to sue Apple for copying GNote's Spen
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

You can't patent the stylus.
You can however patent your own specific implementation/take on it. Read the actual patent filing, Apple's optical stylus design includes THREE different sensors in the stylus, including a camera. It's designed to detect itself in 3D space and is actually very cool.
Don't be an unthinking fandroid and post rubbish like Samsung should sue Apple over a stylus.
That being said, it's interesting to see Apple now apparently acknowledging the utility of the stylus after publicly scoffing at it when they revealed their iPhone way back when.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

they blew it

Also samsung didn't create the stylus in the note, wacom did.

They wont be putting stylus in iPhone or iPad, they did it just to limit Samsung if they decide to make new and better stylus for newer phones/tablets... Now they won't be able to put gyroscope or camera into it, because its Apple's patent ... Apple is becoming serious patent troll ...

Lol apple.... I'll never buy apple products again, fking hypocrites. I'm soooooo happy with android and my galaxy note!!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

I like Apple products but I just HATE Apple.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA

I love my Macbook Pro. But this is annoying....Apple is either: A) Just trying to prevent Samsung from doing something cool with a new version of the Note or B) They are changing their mind and since Steve Jobs isn't around they are making a stylus and copying Samsung because they see "oh, people might actually like that.
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing. They always copy features that Android started first, typically. If Android manufacturers make a "feature" on their phones and the consumers love it, Apple will come around and say "Oh, ya'll actually like that, we just thought it wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but because you like it we'll add it now".
Aggravating. But, Apple is doing something right, they are making billions on people. I'll stick with Google, Android, and manufacturers, namely Samsung.

Its an ingenious little patent I'll grant that. The Note has proved that designers want to use a mobile device for their work and Apple obviously wants a piece of that. This device will allow much more refined stylus experience.... using the top part as a rubber...(Although Wacom already have this) using the pen at an angle to deliver a light shading effect.
That being said.... Apple won't release it for a long time and they'll release an incredibly basic version with minor upgradea up until the iNote 5
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

rlaw said:
That being said, it's interesting to see Apple now apparently acknowledging the utility of the stylus after publicly scoffing at it when they revealed their iPhone way back when.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, like when Jobs was saying what a stupid idea tablets were initially and then Apple releasing the iPad a few years later.
But yes, Stylus's (Stylii?) have been around for decades, and just because Apple have applied for a patent for their version doesn't mean they'll be granted one, although given how pathetic the patent system is, they probably will be.
A decent stylus would make the ipad much more attractive to people wanting to do design work. They need to do something different other than just sticking a faster processor, better screen or LTE modem, in the next iteration, maybe this will be it.
Samsung and Apple already have more than enough lawsuits in progress against each other, they hardly need to add more at this stage.
Also - Apple has probably thought of the market for accessory stylus's, they can sell lots of different coloured ones other than the inevitable white or black one they'll release initially and make even more bank.

knightnz said:
Yup, like when Jobs was saying what a stupid idea tablets were initially and then Apple releasing the iPad a few years later.
But yes, Stylus's (Stylii?) have been around for decades, and just because Apple have applied for a patent for their version doesn't mean they'll be granted one, although given how pathetic the patent system is, they probably will be.
A decent stylus would make the ipad much more attractive to people wanting to do design work. They need to do something different other than just sticking a faster processor, better screen or LTE modem, in the next iteration, maybe this will be it.
Samsung and Apple already have more than enough lawsuits in progress against each other, they hardly need to add more at this stage.
Also - Apple has probably thought of the market for accessory stylus's, they can sell lots of different coloured ones other than the inevitable white or black one they'll release initially and make even more bank.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is actually really intelligent on Apple's part. They're recognizing that creative minded people want to use their products for art creation. Releasing their own special, branded stylus with some bells and whistles is a no brainer. Especially since it looks like they're not going to license wacom tech. They'll be making some healthy margins on a beefy markup.
That being said, this seems like it may be another area where Google cedes a niche market to Apple, the other being audio related tasks. Android's audio latency is pretty terrible.
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andreww88 said:
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree. Marketing, and timing.
It all started with the iPod, and that ingenious marketing campaign with the black silhouettes and white headphones. Didn't take long before the iPod became the dominant mp3 player in the market - despite there being better alternatives.

onehundredbullets said:
Totally agree. Marketing, and timing.
It all started with the iPod, and that ingenious marketing campaign with the black silhouettes and white headphones. Didn't take long before the iPod became the dominant mp3 player in the market - despite there being better alternatives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is why other companies aren't anywhere near Apple in profit and mindshare right now. This manner of thinking.
You're focusing on the pieces and not the whole. Apple doesn't simply sell a function or a stand-alone piece - they sell an experience to accompany a lifestyle. Which is where other companies wanna buy.
Despite there being technically superior options as far as audio quality, support goes - none of the other solutions were designed with the whole package in mind.
None had the whole shebang together. None had the build quality (those 1st/2nd gen iPods still work to this very day), none had the ease of use and intuitiveness (the click wheel is really where the iPad came into its own), the software solution. Drag 'n' drop is simple but Average Joe doesn't want to mount his storage device and manually send things over, he wants to connect, forget and let the computer do things for him. I hate iTunes with a passion but if you don't mind locking down your collection and being part of the Apple ecosystem (preferably with a Mac cos the iTunes Windows experience is torture), you won't find a more polished complete package.
Apple markets exactly what they sell - an experience that comes along with a lifestyle. And with that comes healthy margins and insane profits. Why d'you think Samsung wants to be more Apple-like in approach, design and marketing (Sony tried to be the Apple of Japan for a while but they screwed the pooch on that one)?
Most people don't want to reconcile themselves around technology, they want the technology to fit them. And Apple is genius at that.
So take your irrational hate of Apple, stick it in a pipe and smoke it. Recognize what they've done well and recognize what competitors can take out of their book. Let's see if you continue to blithely stand by Samsung once they adopt more and more Apple-esque business, design and marketing (hello S3 announcement event) practices.
Why would they do that? Because when you're no longer a commodity, you can command higher pricws, margins and profits.
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andreww88 said:
I love my Macbook Pro. But this is annoying....Apple is either: A) Just trying to prevent Samsung from doing something cool with a new version of the Note or B) They are changing their mind and since Steve Jobs isn't around they are making a stylus and copying Samsung because they see "oh, people might actually like that.
The ONLY reason why iPhone is the #1 phone is marketing. They always copy features that Android started first, typically. If Android manufacturers make a "feature" on their phones and the consumers love it, Apple will come around and say "Oh, ya'll actually like that, we just thought it wouldn't fit in an iPhone, but because you like it we'll add it now".
Aggravating. But, Apple is doing something right, they are making billions on people. I'll stick with Google, Android, and manufacturers, namely Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They couldn't have copied android when they released the iPhone first. Remember who was on apples board of directors....
That said, seems like a cool patent & as someone said many creative people use the iPad now as an art device. So this makes sense as another accessory.

monkeyluis said:
They couldn't have copied android when they released the iPhone first. Remember who was on apples board of directors....
That said, seems like a cool patent & as someone said many creative people use the iPad now as an art device. So this makes sense as another accessory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, an iPhone with no apps or app store. Steve Jobs said the iPhone would never run apps...hmmm

Steve Jobs said that Stylus is dead and we should be grateful to Apple for killing it so if Samsung did not patent it, they're probably just trying to acquire it for licensing fees.
But again they said that 4" screen is just not good and not ergonomic etc. Now they'll probably use 4" screen because people actually want it - and call it magical and revolutionary ( not to mention amazing ).
Yes, sarcasm intended