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Hello everyone. First of all, let me congratulate all of you who have made this incredible site. I've been reading your threads for 3 weeks and finally i wanted to make my first post. I didnt wanted to be a stupid post so thats why it took me 3 weeks to make it.
I got my first Hermes 5 days ago (yes i searched for info about hermes 2 weeks before i got it) and it is everything i always wanted/needed.
I live in a city called Temuco in Chile (A southamerican country ) and this toys are very expensive even if its a 2 or 3 years old toy like hermes).
When i received my Hermes i was ready to flash roms and got everything to do it, thanks to you guys),
I'm very pleased with some of your roms and now im using [OPTIMIZED Manilla2d][20755 09/29](AlmostNak3d)(V8) by joshkoss.
The only subject that worried me was.................... Battery life, so i did some searching and thats my first post about. Hope you guys find it usefull. I know there are some battery related posts around but wanted to make some conclusions about the subject.
Here we go.
I've been searching and reading different articles about optimizing a li-ion and li-ion polymer battery, as they basically behave the same way.
In recent days i've been thinking a way to keep my battery life longer.
What i first thought, and without any knowledge, is what i've heard all my life: "A fast charged" battery lasts shorter than a "slow charge" battery.
In some battery chargers there are two ways to charge batteries. Slow and fast. And i always feel that slow charge was better than fast, so i thought.
My Hermes charger is 5V 1A.
If i charge my hermes through USB (Which i think has less than 1A) my battery should be "better charged" and the charge should last longer.
I never quite tested this but as a normal "battery user" it sounded more logical to me.
So i searched on google if there was any information about li-ion batteries and its characteristics.
I went to www.batteryuniversity.com and what i read astonished me.
Battery Conclusions
1.- Lithium batteries are completely different than older nickel based batteries.
2.- Lithium is a very unstable element and behaves abnormally when overcharging and overdischarging.
3.- According to batteryuniversity, "Overcharging makes the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame."
4.- Over-discharging is as dangerous as overcharging. According to batteryuniversity, if discharged, "Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured."
5.- Lithium batteries are usually overcharge and over-discharge protected.
6.- You shouldnt use chargers different than the manufacturer's one.
7.- End of story and End ob battery thoughts.
I (we) just have to live with that.
The Li-on cells for my Makita tools are charged on a computer controlled charger. It reads temp and level of charge and charges accordingly. Manufacturers estimate 3000 charges before the battery is dead, and this after fast heavy discharge that can make a battery too hot to hold and fast charge that takes 22 minute on a 3ah batttery from fully flat to fully charged.
The people who use Li-on at the edge of their accepted use, the radio control flyers, use computer controlled chargers that read the same parameters and more. Many of their chargers read individual cells and balance the charge. Again, after use, the batteries can be too hot to hold.
In a phone or a laptop we use a wall wart the same as any old nicad. I dont know if any clever stuff goes on inside the laptop or phone to regulate charge level according to battery condition but I don't think so. We get about a year out of a laptop that is trickle charged. I'm on almost 2 years for my Tytn with no discernable drop in life but I think I've been lucky, it seems to be about a year for many people. So that's 365 charges, approx.
My guess is that it's charger technology rather than battery technology that limits our battery life.
The Hermes does have a battery sensor. It can be screwed up though when you go below a certain level (<10%), hence people who have trouble recharging a TOTALLY flat battery. The Hermes sensor doesn't detect a battery giving a red LED.
I don't know anything about battery...
I'm currently have a problem with a battery or power-related. My X01HT have just 1 day life in use. I was try it with different second-hand battery, but it likes first condition when only life in 1 day. Hmm.. may be which is the wrong? The battery or the phone?
I have 2 set of X01HT, next time I will try to exchange the battery from both of it. I want to test their battery life to compare and make conclusion about which is the wrong between the battery or the phone.
My tested phone have radio version 1.14.01.10 and have unlocked with NextGenServer. I am using the newest Pays ROM Full. IPL: 1.04. SSPL: 2.60 (Olipro). I have experienced using Pays ROM in twice, first which already sold and the second is this case. Both of the have the same radio version. I think the first one is okay about the life stability, but this one have a problem. May be ROM have influenced the battery life? Or may be IPL/SSPL have caused instability too?
Sorry guys, about poor in English. May be I need to make a thread to share my problem with you.
Thanks.
Hermes are battery hogs but some programs can be power leeches too.
If the radio rom isn't good for your area it also can be a power drain as it is constantly scanning for connection.
I tend to find about 2 days is all my battery lasts for with a little bit of use. Depends what you are using....
Cheers...
I have 3 pieces of SoftBank X01HT.
One of them just fine in the life of the battery, so network here is fine too (maybe). But this one is already sold, so I can't test the battery to my another X01HT which have a critical power problem.
Another X01HT so sleepy, the life of the battery just 1 day. I was try to replace the battery with another battery (2ndhand and I don't know the condition actually) but it have no change, just 1 day too, may be less... Now I try the third battery. I'll reported soon about this...
So how about your opinion about critical power in the X01HT? May be there is another factor beside the battery? Beside the program/OS? May be some physically probelm with their board or etc?
Sorry about poor in English.
I can't say much about the X01HT... All Hermes internals should be the same, but they may put extra things in or take things out depending where you buy your Hermes.
So saying, the Hermes, if not all HTC phones, seem to use a large amount of power. If you use apps it will of course discharge faster.
Sometimes it can be as simple as changing the radio rom but this is risky as the radio rom tends to be permanent brick if something goes wrong with the flash.
Maybe an app you have running and don't realise, I had a BT program that did this, had to shut it down or my battery was down to 70%in about an hour or 2.
Cheers...
Hi all,
I bought a new battery for my HD2 which has 3.400 mAh. Unfortunately the HD2 does not seem to notice the higher capacity.
Battery.exe from htc testing tools shows "FULL (mAh): 12296". As all values are times 10 (like 786% battery right now) I read this as 1230 mAh battery capacity the device thinks to have.
How would I recalibrate the device so it recognizes the new battery capacity?
Thank you, Franky
P.S. I tried to search but found nothing I had'nt already tried. Most people suggest something like this:
1. discharge fully until the phone shuts down by itself
2. remove battery and wait ~1 minute
repeat 1) and 2) until the device shuts off within minutes after being switched on
3. charge completely with the phone OFF until the green light is lit
4. remove battery and wait ~2 minutes
which I tried at least 5 times. I even bought an external charger so the battery is 100% full when put into the device.
Is it a genuine battery, bought from a reputable dealer? I bought a ' genuine' battery from an Amazon seller which was a bad fake, got very hot and only have half the capacity it should have.
If you are using battery in WinMo then I thought there was little to do, in Android there are several tricks but essentially charging with the phone off should give you a full charge.
Have you tried using the phone until it switches off? It might be that you have the extra life but your software doesn't recognize it.
Thanks for your reply!
boomboomer said:
Is it a genuine battery, bought from a reputable dealer?
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Click to collapse
Dunno. All dealers pretend to be (the only) serios. But it's a German dealer /w good ebay ratings.
boomboomer said:
Have you tried using the phone until it switches off? It might be that you have the extra life but your software doesn't recognize it.
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Click to collapse
That's the issue. When the phone shuts down (unfortunately it does that silently, not like a Nokia) and I remove the battery (wait some time) and re-insert it it is at 50% and lasts a few hours more (BTW: doesn't work a 3rd time).
How to tell the software/phone it got a better battery?
BTW: It's WinMo 6.5.5
Thanks, Franky
The phone should only shut down when the battery reaches a certain voltage, or the battery shuts itself off to protect the cell. It sounds like your phone is working properly by turning off due to low voltage, but then when the voltage rises (when you rest it) restarting. The battery protector circuit would not allow it to start for a second time.
You can try using battclock to check your voltage, which should be 4.206 when fully charged and down to around 3.2 or 3.6 when empty. But I think you have a fake battery that simply will not contain that much power - it is a double thickness one, with a bulging battery cover required?
Hi boomboomer,
private talk, he?
Yeah, the battery is a double thick one with extra cover.
Battery.exe showed these values when I got 1% battery left:
MS percentage: 1%
PA percentage: 1%
ACR (mAh): 83 (i.e. 8 mAh)
1st dis_ percentage: 150%
V_MBAT (V): 3.742
after removing the battery and setting it in again after 5 minutes I got these values:
MS percentage: 47%
PA percentage: 47%
ACR (mAh): 5776 (i.e. 578 mAh)
1st dis_ percentage: 470%
V_MBAT (V): 3.747
Regards, Franky
If you notice the voltage reading stays the same for both instances, 3.742 V which isn't far off shut down value for the phone. What is changing is the current value, which if the voltage is constant means the battery resistance is dropping after you rest the battery for 5 mins, or letting the cell cool down and hence giving the impression that the cell still has 47% capacity - which it does not.
A high internal cell resistance means high temperatures and a very short life span, a genuine battery should have a fairly constant resistance and hence linear discharge.
Bottom line is your ebay seller did not send you a battery capable of providing 3400mAh, it may also not be safe to use in your phone in certain conditions e.g. a hot sunny day on your car dash may result in a breach of the cell membrane and even a lithium fire.
I would advise returning the battery for a refund and spend a little more for a genuine HTC extended battery from someone you trust.
Well, besides that I cannot send it back (it's dearer than to dump it) the battery shurely has more than 1230 mAh. From what I saw its somewhat about 1800 mAh (1230 + 50% battery left when re-inserting).
Only the HD2 does not recognize it.
Regards, Franky
Is it possible/safe to connect an external battery of same voltage but different mAh directly to the internal battery of a tablet to raise its mAh?
I am thinking about moding a tablet case to have a built in battery pack for my Iconia a500 tablet. I can easily squeeze 4 cell phone batteries in between the folds and make two 3.6v 3000mAh(or higher) battery pack with out adding much bulk or weight to it. can probably squeeze a usb hub in there too while i am at it.
I looked at the internal battery and it looks like i can splice its wires and add a connector to hook to the two 3.6v packs for easy connection.
I don't know much about electronics, but from my limited knowledge and layman point of view, as far as the tablet is concerns, it will just have a higher capacity battery, wont it?
can it be done safely without any other electronic components?
I'm not expert in that matter, but I think there's LiIon battery, and AFAIK it may make some confusement to your Fuel Gauge IC and Battery Charging IC, as these are probably calibrated to work with that certain battery type and capacitance. But I don't believe it may damage something if you connect it paralelly.
I would be careful with that if I were you. While it seems simple enough, batteries are much more complex than just voltage and capacity.
Most of the time, external batteries just go through the charging connection of the device so it can handle the power itself. If you connect it directly, you may bypass some part of the charging circuit (often times there's a circuit in the battery itself). Basically, I'm thinking the batteries may not fully charge or one will overcharge. It really depends on how it's set up. I'm not an expert with the design of rechargeable batteries though, so it may be safe.
In short, I would suggest connecting the batteries to the charger to extend your battery life. I'm sure others can offer additional insight.
A good read about batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/serial_and_parallel_battery_configurations
I can't comment on if it will work or if it is safe..
cellphone batteries have a built in protection to prevent them from overcharging or discharging, don't they?
The problem i have with connecting to the charging port is that it needs 12v. connecting 3 or 4 of battereis will give me either too little or too much volt. cant get 12v out of 3.7v batteries with out some kind of additional electronic parts to regulate the voltage. I don't have the sufficient knowledge to do that. this is why i figured ill do it directly. And charging would be simpler too if i can use the charger to charge both the internal and the external batteries at the same time.
Was hopping to hear from someone who did that already. I guess no one is brave/dumb enough to try it.
Sounds intresting looking forward for it
In a "perfect" environment this would be possible.
The inner resistance and voltage difference of the different batteries would even out the different capacity while charging.
You can avoid having these currents between the batteries by using diodes to separate the charging currents.
However my recommendations in terms of reliability, safety and efficiency is to use two or more batteries with the same capacity and dis-/charging curve.
is it the phone or the battery that cuts current when the battery is fully charged?
ridethisbike said:
is it the phone or the battery that cuts current when the battery is fully charged?
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Click to collapse
On most phones tablets etc. it's the device that cuts off the charging current when the battery is fully charged.
However nearly ever batteries has also a protection circuit that cuts off the battery in case of
under, over voltage and over current, sometimes even over temperature.
samotronta05 said:
On most phones tablets etc. it's the device that cuts off the charging current when the battery is fully charged.
However nearly ever batteries has also a protection circuit that cuts off the battery in case of
under, over voltage and over current, sometimes even over temperature.
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Click to collapse
ah, well it seems to me that if the battery has to take action, then you're doing it wrong.
I'm not sure exactly how diodes work so I can't comment on that, but definitely use like batteries (two 3000mAh batteries as opposed to one 3000mAh and one 3600mAh) as to not confuse the device about the charge, causing the 3600 to not get fully charged. just make sure they get connected properly (in parallel) and it should work just fine.
in reality its no different than someone using 4 car batteries to power their car audio system. as long as its done properly (in parallel), there is really no harm.
I wouldn't recommend it. While technically it is something that you can do like other posters have said the internal power system is configured in a particular matter. It is likely that the regulation and protection are minimal if they only expect the internal battery. There is also the issue of charging, if you did as you say, you would be discharging the batteries into each other if they weren't exactly at the same levels. So this isn't the recommend method.
What I would recommend you do is put them together so you get something over six volts (two 3.6V packs in series) and put a 5V regulator on it. Then connect it to a USB cable and charge through there. That way you utilize the systems built in protection, aren't messing with the battery connections and can swap it in much easier.
You can... as far as u meet these requirements.
1) notice ur original battery voltage..
2) buy some same kind of them, or u may use others, provided the voltage is same. If u can find higher watt-hour( current) battery of same voltage, go for it.
3) never mix up different amp/ voltage rated batteries together. Ie if u have 3.7v 3200ma batt, and planning to add one more batt in parallel to it go for another 3.7v 3200ma , and not 3.7v 1500ma or 3.5 v 3200ma batt.
4) if u cant find a higher capacity batt of same voltage, go for parallels. Ie join together the positives of two or more batt, and also join together their negatives too.. connect it to the batt terminals of tab,
5) no problems will be caused if u use high current batt, provided u have suited the correct voltage. In ur case u have to ensure proper voltage only. And current can increase to any value.. the system takes only what its needed.
6) the sad thing is it will take more time for charging. But never try to increase the charging current. It will damage the power section. But increase ur patients. Most of the tabs got 1-1.5 amp charger. Never increase the limits.
U may go for it. If u can manage these...
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
giritrobbins said:
I would recommend it. While technically it is something that you can do like other posters have said the internal power system is configured in a particular matter.
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Click to collapse
Yes, to charge with a constant current until a certain voltage is reached.
giritrobbins said:
There is also the issue of charging, if you did as you say, you would be discharging the batteries into each other if they weren't exactly at the same levels.
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Yes, this is the main problem and it's also the reason i recommended using two batteries with the same capacity. Otherwise the constant charge and discharge depending on the size of the difference between the batteries makes the system very inefficient.
giritrobbins said:
What I would recommend you do is put them together so you get something over six volts (two 3.6V packs in series) and put a 5V regulator on it. Then connect it to a USB cable and charge through there. That way you utilize the systems built in protection, aren't messing with the battery connections and can swap it in much easier.
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Click to collapse
Which would make it even more inefficient.
showlyshah said:
3) never mix up different amp/ voltage rated batteries together. Ie if u have 3.7v 3200ma batt, and planning to add one more batt in parallel to it go for another 3.7v 3200ma , and not 3.7v 1500ma or 3.5 v 3200ma batt.
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Click to collapse
You can mix up different batteries when the voltage is the same, however this is not a the recommend way, since you will not encounter much gain in capacity.
The in terms of capacity smaller battery will be charged by the bigger one all the time.
However if you say i don't care about the efficiency then you can mix up for e.g. a 3.7v 3200mAh and a 3.7v 3000mAh battery.
samotronta05 said:
Yes, to charge with a constant current until a certain voltage is reached.
Yes, this is the main problem and it's also the reason i recommended using two batteries with the same capacity. Otherwise the constant charge and discharge depending on the size of the difference between the batteries makes the system very inefficient.
Which would make it even more inefficient.
You can mix up different batteries when the voltage is the same, however this is not a the recommend way, since you will not encounter much gain in capacity.
The in terms of capacity smaller battery will be charged by the bigger one all the time.
However if you say i don't care about the efficiency then you can mix up for e.g. a 3.7v 3200mAh and a 3.7v 3000mAh battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue when you connect them like that will always occur when they are in parallel (you need to add some logic or some diodes in there). Using the same ampacity battery will mitigate it to a point but the internal resistance of a battery will dictate how fast it drains down.
As for the charging, that isn't what i am saying. The internal circuitry that he cannot change is expecting a certain battery with certain characteristics. Putting a second battery in there in parallel will potentially mess with that stuff. If it doesn't realize the size of all the attached battery it will register a fault because it won't be charging correctly.
He isn't going for efficiency here. And a linear regulator is easy, if we want efficient we can do that too. I was just suggesting an alternative that could be easily done.
And the most important point is not about voltages but about chemistry. Different chemistry have different voltages and different knees where they drop suddenly.
The original battery is 7.4v 3350mah. and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
so matching or passing that with batteries I can fit in the space I want it to fit in is a problem.
I was going to use 4 i9000 1500mah batteries, which would fit perfectly, to make a 7.4v 3000mha. but that would be lower then the original. i guess i can try to find higher capacity batteries that i can fit in the case
But if i understand it correctly, the current will keep flowing from the larger capacity battery to the lower one, it will keep them at 100% until the original will drop to lets say 3000mah and then they will all drain at the same rate until they are all empty. and when i charge them, the charging circuitry will get its information only from the original battery, so it will keep charging until the original is full. it may not be as efficient, but it should still get me a significant boost, wouldn't it.
I suppose I could connect them all to make a 14.8v 1500mha with a 12v regulator and use the charging port, but that will leave me with the problem of charging the external pack. no idea how to do that. how do i cheaply and safely charge a 14.8v battery pack?
ronkoni said:
The original battery is 7.4v 3350mah. and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
so matching or passing that with batteries I can fit in the space I want it to fit in is a problem.
I was going to use 4 i9000 1500mah batteries, which would fit perfectly, to make a 7.4v 3000mha. but that would be lower then the original. i guess i can try to find higher capacity batteries that i can fit in the case
But if i understand it correctly, the current will keep flowing from the larger capacity battery to the lower one, it will keep them at 100% until the original will drop to lets say 3000mah and then they will all drain at the same rate until they are all empty. and when i charge them, the charging circuitry will get its information only from the original battery, so it will keep charging until the original is full. it may not be as efficient, but it should still get me a significant boost, wouldn't it.
I suppose I could connect them all to make a 14.8v 1500mha with a 12v regulator and use the charging port, but that will leave me with the problem of charging the external pack. no idea how to do that. how do i cheaply and safely charge a 14.8v battery pack?
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Hey why are u going to make a 14.8v batt pack when urz original ones are 7.4??? I dont realy understand the logic. If u have extra batt, then make the pack like this
Batt pack of 7.4v × 2 and connect them in parallel, thatz all, no need to modify charging circuits, no need to regulate the voltage, and no loss in voltage/ current,
But if u make a high voltage pack, u have to regulate the o/p with some ic, and in turn u will suffer some v/c drop.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
i like to connect directly to the battery, but some seem to believe it is not wise if the mAh of the original is higher then the external pack.
The 14.8v pack with a 12v regulator option is for use with the tablet's charging connector which require 12v . A safer option, but leaves me with the charging problem.
ronkoni said:
i like to connect directly to the battery, but some seem to believe it is not wise if the mAh of the original is higher then the external pack.
The 14.8v pack with a 12v regulator option is for use with the tablet's charging connector which require 12v . A safer option, but leaves me with the charging problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-fem...ultDomain_0&hash=item3f0cd836f3#ht_2792wt_902
that actually took me a lot longer to find than I had originally planned... lol. of course.... you're going to have to find the rest of your charger. but that'll be easy with that adapter
So its a about making a batt pack which u can connect to the tab via charging port? And use it like a backup when u r out of power?
If its ur idea, you may tell about the size of the pack, and how long u need to use it( ie backup time), if u do, i will find out the solution, also post ur current batt and charger spec.
And hope i can help with some circuits too..
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
the idea is to have a battery pack that can fit in between the layers of the stand part of this tablet's case. the available space I want to use is about 2"x9" so since the space is limited, the batteries must be the flat type and be able to get 12v out of them and be able to charge them externally.
this is the original tablet battery and the charger is 12v 1.5a.
4x Samsung i9000 1500mAh batteries fits perfectly. and since i already got 2 extra ones laying around, might as well go with these batteries. unless it is possible to get 12v out of 3 batteries. then i can probably use 3 Samsung note 2500mAh batteries instead.
so, what circuitry do i need to make this thing power the tablet and get charged?
thought about getting one of these battery packs, take it apart and replace its batteries with mine. since it already got the necessary circuitry for regulating the voltage and for charging, it would cut down on the guess work and probably be cheaper to build. i think they use 3 batteries in there which would be better.
I think I found the way of improving the battery of tablet as in the title. The battery compartment has dimentions 126.5x67.5x5 mm.
The original battery pack is wired and of capacity ca 1800 mAh so it does not last long.
I found on eBay batteries that will fit in the battery compartment, 3 of them, and they need to be connected in parallel. That will give 5400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. Each battery has wires and has the size of 56x36x5 mm.
Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180850958176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I ordered the batteries and will post further when i install and test this solution. My only concern is that the batteries connected in parallel need to have identical voltages at the moment of soldering them together (to avoid high currents between them due to different voltages which would generate heat and even could destroy them) so probably they need to be first time connected while fully discharged.
mengagumkan said:
I think I found the way of improving the battery of tablet as in the title. The battery compartment has dimentions 126.5x67.5x5 mm.
The original battery pack is wired and of capacity ca 1800 mAh so it does not last long.
I found on eBay batteries that will fit in the battery compartment, 3 of them, and they need to be connected in parallel. That will give 5400 mAh capacity at 3.7 V. Each battery has wires and has the size of 56x36x5 mm.
Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180850958176?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I ordered the batteries and will post further when i install and test this solution. My only concern is that the batteries connected in parallel need to have identical voltages at the moment of soldering them together (to avoid high currents between them due to different voltages which would generate heat and even could destroy them) so probably they need to be first time connected while fully discharged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the question is?
@UP:
It isn't forum for questions only.
@OP:
The second concern might be charging and fuel gauge, try to find out what are those ICs in your tablet, get datasheets and check if they need to have batt characteristics programmed by CPU, you might need to change parameters passed to them.
I would be very careful modifying the batteries. Li-ions have control circuitry inside of them that talk to the device and they have a very specific way they must be charge.
Even when they're used normally they have a bad habit of blowing up.
xHausx said:
Li-ions have control circuitry inside of them that talk to the device and they have a very specific way they must be charge.
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Click to collapse
Umm, if we're talking about cellphone's batteries. No they don't (at least not in phone models I've been studying). All I've seen in this class of batteries so far is +, - and thermistor pad (and sometimes NFC Antenna), everything else is calculated by fuel gauge and charging ICs, basing on the batt parameters they get from CPU and calibration data.
The thermistor should be monitored by the device, but afaik all li-ion batteries must have control circuitry to make sure they are charged correctly. Batteries with multiple cells also need it to balance usage and charging.
Of course there's always the exception, but li-ions are by their nature unstable, so caution is still advised when doing anything with them. A quick search of YouTube shows a lot about what they're capable of.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=906144
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries/
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.