We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.
Related
At the office I leave my phone in a cradle. When I get calls I remove the phone to answer and then return it to the cradle when done. My battery goes from 100% down to somewhere in the 90's then charges back to 100% in the cradle. Does this repeated process harm the battery in any way? I've read that these batteries don't suffer from the memory effect, but I'm still not sure if this counts as a charging cycle.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
Really? I've read on this forum that there is no need to do that with the new Lithium Ion batteries. I've even read that this could have a negative effect and you should try not to let the battery drain completly.
I don't understand why there isn't a proper battery care section in the manual. Its as if its some kind of voodoo science.
Perhaps not Once a week. But Once a "while"
The reason is that, Phone software uses approximation to calculate the charge left in the Battery. So over time, battery ages and software may not be calibrated to match with the battery's storage capacity. So draining the battery entirely and charging them fully gives the phone's software to assess the battery's health and recalibrate.
It's a lithium battery mate. The only way you can really damage it is by a complete discharge. So long as you don't switch the phone back on once it switches itself off due to low battery you needn't worry about anything else.
Also in theory the lithium batteries have a lifespan of say about a 1000 charges for example and everytime you charge it has one charging less left. This ofcourse isn't exactly how it is in practice but charging the battery alot wears it down. It isn't good either to keep it in the charger for a longer time after it's reached a 100%.
Hi,
this is only partly correct:
Suppose the battery can make 1000 (which I don't believe) charge cycles,
it means that you can charge 1000 times from empty to full.
If you just charge 1000 times from 50% empty to full it counts for 500 cycles!
So,
don't worry, let it stay in the cradle if you like
There are 500 opinions about that but believe, as I wrote is correct.
Theo
Yes, what I said wasn't exact science and I used 1000 cycles as an example, but from what I've read it is better to let the battery drain to less than 50% and then charge it full rather than charge 5% at a time. My previous post was meant to illustrate this.
Sent from my Leedroid powered pocketsized supercomputer using XDA App
geenome said:
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a load of crap, no offense... Lithium batteries have no memory effect and have absolutely no need to be completely discharged, that's a ancient thing from the time of nickel-metal hybrid batteries. The only actual reason for full charge cycles is to calibrate the device for that exact battery.
Keeping a lithium-ion battery in a charger most of the time will wear the battery down faster than getting it drain more and then charging it. Keeping the battery almost fully loaded/in a constant loading state wears the battery capacity by approximately 20% a year (can't recall the source/study just now)(EDIT: and my personal experience is that the battery capacity will wear that much anyway, no matter how you use it). The life-cycle of phones these days are roughly two years nowadays so IMO you can keep it in a cradle with no worries, if you wish. And lets face it, a new battery after a year of usage won't be that big an investment after all.
To add to the above post, running down a lithium battery completely does more damage than benefit. This is almost impossible though with normal use as the phone shuts down long before the battery is completely empty
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
lin013190 said:
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine came nearly full. I just plugged it into charger out of the box and played with it while it was charging
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
With any new phone I always play with it till it dies and then plug it in and charge for 8 hours and then power it on and good to go
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Hmm, I see.:cyclops:
With every electronic gadget using Lithium-ion batteries nowadays, it doesn't really matter how/when you charge it.
Some would argue to make sure to allow a full discharge from a full charge from a battery calibration point of view, so the battery meter is more accurate. It wouldn't affect the health of the battery itself either way.
Things like memory effect doesn't apply to lithium-ion. How often you charge it and how much you charge it (full or partial charge etc.) doesn't affect it much either. The only 2 things that can potential kill a lithium-ion is high temperature and letting it discharge far too low to the point that it cannot be charged up again. Note that all electronic devices will power off way before it even reaches this threshold.
What makaijin says is correct
I had mine a bit of a charge yesterday but it was no where near full.
Used it till it was flat this morning. It's currently on charge and I'm going to leave it till it's full only because I need to stop messing with it and do other things
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I charged mine for 4 hours before use.
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
hanthesolo said:
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Ifixit shows that the battery inside the Nexus 7 is Lithium Polymer. Does that make a difference in terms of conditioning compared to Li-Ion batteries?
MaxCarnage said:
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, thanks. I thought that was my being paranoid .
Lithium Polymer batteries are actually worse than Lithium-Ion. Don't take my word for it, but at least with older RC Lipo batteries, fully discharging damages them even more the lithium-ion. I am sure the tablet cuts off way before the danger point, but still something to keep in mind.
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
phoneman09 said:
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure but you can always tap the power button to pull up the battery charge animation. It should let you know when it is fully charged.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
TP_NC_USER said:
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would rather always have my battery near max charge when I take it off the charger than have a battery last 7 years instead of 3 or 4 in a device I will realistically only use extensively for 2. Even more so with a phone where they battery can replaced for $20. I'll take a full charge every time over the battery lasting for years longer than I need it to.
I have a first gen iPod Touch I bought when they were released (2007 I think?). I have left it on a charger for MONTHS. Still holds a decent charge.
Is there benefit to using a battery calibration app like this if you're rooted?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nema.batterycalibration&hl=en
You don't have to but I like to. Mine was like 40% charged when I unboxed
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
sRDennyCrane said:
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calibration occurs every time the battery is charged to 100%. It isn't a "first few days" type of thing, it is every single time the battery meter reaches 100%.
I had no choice but to completely charge my N7 (purchased from Office Depot 7/14). When I went to turn it on the first time, I was greeted with small text in the upper left side of the screen that said "show low battery logo" on a completely black screen. No logo...no nothing. Completely blank. Plugged it in, the battery charging logo popped up, fully charged it and it's been working great since.
However, I found it a bit odd as I thought most of these types of devices ship with about a 40% battery charge.
Thoughts?
I was reading about Li-Po battery's, and I found out that these batteries might over-charge and go ka-boom.
Is this true? Does anyone have any knowledge with these batteries, and is this at all a Draw back for the N4?
Edit: Okay, so I was just scoping around and I think this source might be incorrect, but it seems like recharging these batteries have precautions, like certain time-limits. Maybe this is for removable batteries, but none the less these batteries seem more complicated than Li-Ion.
Here's a guide for charging Li-Po's that states overcharging is bad: http://www.ehow.com/how_6049668_method-charge-lithium-polymer-battery.html
Link to this?
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
Aren't Li-poly batteries actually safer than Li-ion?
That's the Technology used on Mac Book Pros and the iPads ... They are supposed to have faster and longer charging cycles among other advantages like being lighter and have more accurate power readings... But i could be wrong so please correct me if I'm misinformed ?
---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------
jacklebott said:
Aren't Li-poly batteries actually safer than Li-ion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See that's what I tough too ?
Don't wanna start a war here but the battery on my new iPad it's fantastic ! Even on LTE I get like 2 days plus of heavy use..
LiPo or Lithium polymer batteries have a much higher power/weight/size ratio then typical Li-Ions, which makes them awesome for portable devices. The downside is that they are very temperamental as far as discharging and charging goes. Cells need to be leveled and managed independently when charging, punctures in the battery can cause it to catch fire, and have been known to create explosive fireballs when overcharged.
While it is true that over-charging a LiPo can make it catch fire, there will be controllers in place to prevent this from happening. These things are quite fussy. Even letting a LiPo drain below a certain percentage can be detrimental to the health and longevity of the battery, 20% of the battery's total capacity is often regarded as the minimum safe charge. It is also recommended to keep a 50-60% charge in a LiPo if storing it for long periods of time.
Fortunately, there will be a LiPo controller on the phone which will manage all of the dirty work for us. I imagine a ~20% charge on the LiPo will be regarded as 0% for the phone, as to not allow the battery's voltage to drop too low. Charging will be managed with independent cell leveling, and it will make sure the battery is not over-charged.
I really do not believe that, as a consumer we will have to worry about the battery or how its charging. We will just get to enjoy the awesome battery life associated with the LiPo.
Awesome thanks for clearifying it for me. You said that 20 percent might equal 0, so does that mean 2100mah will be cut short?
LiPo batteries are awesome. I still have my SE K750i and the battery life, despite over 4 years of use, is still amazing. I don't use it anymore but the battery still seems to keep most of a full charge unlike other cell phones (Siemens C65) which cant even maintain enough charge to power on after charging.
I don't think you would have to worry about the 2100mAh rating... I fiddled around with RC vehicles before and I ran one off of a parallell pack of Lipos, that should equal 10Ah which gave me about 1 hour and 45 minutes of "play time" with my truck(brushless outrunner motor and a mamba monster). It should be noted that after those 1 hour and 45 minutes the batteries still held up pretty well but the motor was glowing hot, never had any troubles with anything until I torched the motor because of the prolonged runtimes I was getting...
http://youtu.be/0Yg88tg71m4
Interestingly, if you go into device info (*#*#4636#*#*) and hit battery information, it lists the battery as using Li-Ion technology, can anyone else confirm this? If so, there may be more to this than just a LiPo battery.
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
I use my Nexus 10 a lot at house. So, Is it better to keep it plugged-in all that time?
roshanpius said:
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The life span of LiIon/LiPoly batteries is also reduced when the battery is at or near 100% for a prolonged time. Don't think too much about it, just use the N10 and recharge it often. I usually try to plug it back in around the 70% mark.
It's also quite easy to open up the tablet, you only need a screwdriver and a plastic prying tool and then you can change the battery yourself, if it ever should become necessary (unlikely, unless you plan to use it for ~5 years).
> http://www.powerbookmedic.com/wordpress/2012/11/16/google-nexus-10-take-apart-first-look
i don't care about it... i leave it plugged whenever i can
chances are, those who take "good care" of their battery may end up with 10% more life in 2 years.... and frankly, i couldn't care less about that
not worth the hassle of worrying about batteries anymore
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
EniGmA1987 said:
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
Its hard to follow those instructions when your out 24 hours a day, or maybe you just want to use your tablet
Don't worry about doing extra stuff.. like the user said I could careless..
Just don't let your device die, charge it once it hit like 15%..
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
YoungAceAtlanta said:
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say you have to do that. If it's possible I recharge early, if not I just use it anyway.
Doesn't really matter too much since the battery can be exchanged rather easily if it ever comes to that.
BoneXDA said:
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and then it drains a bit and goes back to charging, over and over the rest of the night.
I've read that Li-ion batteries don't like "deep cycles", that is, fully dischanging then fully charging, because this shortens the battery's life. Also that it's not good to have it at 100% for a prolonged time. So it would be best to always have the device partially charged, plugging it if below 50% and unplugging at 90%. When the battery reaches 90% some phones even notify you that "the battery is full, and you can disconnect from charger"
Source: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.